Twitch crown crates?
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sylviermoone✭✭✭✭✭I fail to see why this is an issue. As a streamer, I'm happy that ZOS is adding some incentive for people to watch streams. I think adding a Twitch store for people to purchase crowns from is also fine. People ask what costume I'm wearing, what hat I'm wearing or what mount I'm riding all the time. If they can just click over and grab a crown pack while watching the stream, that's fine, too.
I just hope that people can earn drops from anyone streaming ESO rather than just a select few streamers.Co-GM, Angry Unicorn Traders: PC/NA
"Official" Master Merchant Tech Support
and Differently Geared AF
@sylviermoone2 -
Rain_Greyraven✭✭✭✭✭Rain_Greyraven wrote: »Rain_Greyraven wrote: »
Here is the thing.....I pretty sure they don't, not really. I have seen people make these over the top rage posts before then laugh about it because it got the forums in such a stir.
Playing the forums for some people is more fun than any game ever could be....yeah It's pretty warped but again indicative of the culture.
At the same time though remember that there are still many who do take this seriously. Even if it's "just pixels", some people still care about principles and ethics, myself included.
Ethics in this whole kerfuffle depends largely on ones authoritative base and point of view.......my whole point throughout all of this is the perpetually outraged forum user pushing the ludicrous straw-man of "I disagree with you ergo you are evil."
It's the exact same nonsense that the PAWS cult pushes, when they are harassing people in game who are riding legendary Apex mounts. "You opened a crate, you are supporting what I perceive as evil ergo you are evil" I actually had a very well known community member say those exact words to me.
That is a very dangerous path, and is going to lead to some heavy real world consequences sooner or later, I say that as someone who has seen and dealt with harassment fallout on a legal corporate level. There is only so long that a company that is ran by attorneys can ignore a situation that is about to blow up in their faces.
The great thing about a free market economy is that folks can vote with their wallets, that is ethical; what is insidious is when those people attempt to social engineer by harassment the outcome that they desire.
That has been what's been going on, and so far Zenimax has turned a blind eye, but it can't be that way forever.
@ZOS_RichLambert if ever a there was a time to /lurk now is it.
The possibility of something does not necessitate it. I agree that oftentimes these things can go too far, but don't also let that blind you to when things go too far in the opposite direction. Nuance and caution are recommended when things get heated and emotional on the forums, especially these days.
Thing is...we aren't actually talking about possibilities are we? We are (or at least I am ) talking about actual social engineering through harassment, on both the forums and in game, but I do agree the pendulum could swing too far in either direction and both are not good for the community as a whole.
One thing I think most rational people can agree on is any form of harassment is diametric to what a game is suppose to be about, and there needs to be serious consequences for that on the forums and especially in game.
It all well and good to disagree with a business model, but at the end of the day, it is up to the company to decide how they want to finance their development and what profit share they wish to see.
Throwing a tantrums, and bullying people who are okay and participates in a business model is unethical and possibility (depending on the extent) Illegal.Edited by Rain_Greyraven on May 17, 2018 5:33PM"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.”
― Robert E. Howard
So you want to be a game developer? Here is the best way to go about it.0 -
Marginis✭✭✭✭✭Rain_Greyraven wrote: »Rain_Greyraven wrote: »Rain_Greyraven wrote: »
Here is the thing.....I pretty sure they don't, not really. I have seen people make these over the top rage posts before then laugh about it because it got the forums in such a stir.
Playing the forums for some people is more fun than any game ever could be....yeah It's pretty warped but again indicative of the culture.
At the same time though remember that there are still many who do take this seriously. Even if it's "just pixels", some people still care about principles and ethics, myself included.
Ethics in this whole kerfuffle depends largely on ones authoritative base and point of view.......my whole point throughout all of this is the perpetually outraged forum user pushing the ludicrous straw-man of "I disagree with you ergo you are evil."
It's the exact same nonsense that the PAWS cult pushes, when they are harassing people in game who are riding legendary Apex mounts. "You opened a crate, you are supporting what I perceive as evil ergo you are evil" I actually had a very well known community member say those exact words to me.
That is a very dangerous path, and is going to lead to some heavy real world consequences sooner or later, I say that as someone who has seen and dealt with harassment fallout on a legal corporate level. There is only so long that a company that is ran by attorneys can ignore a situation that is about to blow up in their faces.
The great thing about a free market economy is that folks can vote with their wallets, that is ethical; what is insidious is when those people attempt to social engineer by harassment the outcome that they desire.
That has been what's been going on, and so far Zenimax has turned a blind eye, but it can't be that way forever.
@ZOS_RichLambert if ever a there was a time to /lurk now is it.
The possibility of something does not necessitate it. I agree that oftentimes these things can go too far, but don't also let that blind you to when things go too far in the opposite direction. Nuance and caution are recommended when things get heated and emotional on the forums, especially these days.
Thing is...we aren't actually talking about possibilities are we? We are (or at least I am ) talking about actual social engineering through harassment, on both the forums and in-game, but I do agree the pendulum could swing too far in either direction, and both are not good for the community as a whole.
One thing I think most rational people can agree on is that any form of harassment is diametrically opposed to what a game is supposed to be about, and there needs to be serious consequences for that, on the forums and especially in-game.
It is all well and good to disagree with a business model, but at the end of the day, it is up to the company to decide how they want to finance their development and what profit share they wish to see.
Throwing a tantrum, and bullying people who are okay and participate in a business model, is unethical and possibly (depending on the extent) Illegal.
I agree pretty much 100%. Again though, just be careful that you don't dismiss legitimate criticism of ethical missteps as "tantrums" or "bullying". Like I said, it's important to use nuance to recognize the differences. A lot of people will fail to do so, so it's best to encourage critical thinking, itself, in a situation like this, I think.@Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.1 -
vamp_emily✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Rain_Greyraven wrote: »Throwing a tantrums, and bullying people who are okay and participates in a business model is unethical and possibility (depending on the extent) Illegal.
From my point of view, the people who disagree with zeni's business models are the victims. Just because they disagree they are told to quit crying, get over it, grow up or go play another game.
If you want a friend, get a dog.
AW Rank: Grand Warlord 1 ( level 49)7 -
WembleyOTG✭✭✭I don't see a problem with these crates, they show they only contain common items, and the only other item is that radiant apex mount and pet.. So I feel it's not bad.. If it were a normal crate I might feel differently.. These mini crates would be good for their streams to give away prizes like they wanted to..
I don't mind linking the account.. it was pretty easy.. Doesn't bother me at all.
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Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭So basically ZoS is telling me that I can get free crap by logging into a twitch stream and muting it? As long as you don't have to toss a emote or code word at specific times during chat it works well for me.
Yeah doesn't work for everyone which is pretty biased to those with less $ to spend on the internet or for phone bills tbh. The majority of twitch give aways with other games I noticed is just a simple claim button from date to date which imo ZoS should have done but they took it way beyond that level.1 -
omegatay_ESO✭✭✭✭Money is money. If only a few people buy, it pays for the 1 hour reskin of the mount and pet..2 -
Rain_Greyraven✭✭✭✭✭vamp_emily wrote: »Rain_Greyraven wrote: »Throwing a tantrums, and bullying people who are okay and participates in a business model is unethical and possibility (depending on the extent) Illegal.
From my point of view, the people who disagree with zeni's business models are the victims. Just because they disagree they are told to quit crying, get over it, grow up or go play another game.
Sure victimology is all the rage these days, a ceaseless arms race of who can be the bigger victim, and it isn't as sanitized as someone saying I disagree with the business model then being told to shut up and quit crying...the reality is the exact same people continually flaming in the most debased and insulting manner their dissatisfaction of the business model and calling anyone that doesn't agree a white Knight/whale/Zenimax shill, and that isn't when they are calling them evil and making real world threats against them in game.
This is happening because these people know that simply voting with their wallet won't have any effect so they are using terroristic tactics of Social engineering through harassment, and folks who participate in that do no have, Zenimax's or their fellow players best interest in mind, they want their agenda and consequences be damned."Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.”
― Robert E. Howard
So you want to be a game developer? Here is the best way to go about it.1 -
Night_Watch✭✭✭sylviermoone wrote: »I fail to see why this is an issue. As a streamer, I'm happy that ZOS is adding some incentive for people to watch streams. I think adding a Twitch store for people to purchase crowns from is also fine. People ask what costume I'm wearing, what hat I'm wearing or what mount I'm riding all the time. If they can just click over and grab a crown pack while watching the stream, that's fine, too.
I just hope that people can earn drops from anyone streaming ESO rather than just a select few streamers.
(TLDR; Pointless promotion with hollow meaning to many)
Though my point(s) of view are as nothing they follow anyway;
I have a twitch account and have only used it, to date, for watching specific twitch 'streams' as promoted by two games companies the one I just recently 'unfollowed' (date of this post) as I have not used it more than a few times in a couple of years and have no further interest in the developer and 'The Elder Scrolls Online' channel. The latter I have only used a couple of times. As is, I am not subscribed to any other channel.
Now, I have no interest in subscribing to any channel other than (and this is only a maybe) a channel or two related to ESO for this seemingly cheap shot advertising revenue gimmick (as some seem to see it) and only to have them run in the background, muted and unwatched. I would also need to find channels that are 'live' at times when I play* - usually mid to late evening UK. As such, any subscription I made would be somewhat hollow. Sure the twitch streamer would see my subscription and may think it active and ZOS would, in the same way, see an active twitcher to add to their count and there is a potential for revenue. As far as I'm concerned though the twitch stream(s) in the background would have no meaning to me and I would unscribe the moment I got any 'drop' I wanted. Even if, along the time line, Zos offered other or significant rewards I would likely lose interest fast.
I can easily have my browser autostart with windows and probably auto login to twitch and maybe go directly to a given channel (I'd have to check). What if the 'promotion' is only valid for a given list of streamers? Well I just make sure to use one of those channels. Or would I? What if the list is changable and we have to keep up with those changes? For a frequent twitch user, this would be a none issue. For someone like me who rarely uses twitch it is just a hassle we could happily do without. And therein is the 'rub'! For frequent twitch users this promotion is a good thing. For those that infrequenlty use twitch or do not use it at all, this promotion has very little draw.
The whole collect this awesome mount thing is laughable. The fact that some long time ESO+ subscribers that may have spent hundreds in real money on 'credits' for use in store have no other way to collect the mount other than a chance to get a crate via a tenuosly connected third party social media website then a slim chance that the crate when opened will reward the mount (or the pet for that matter) seems insulting.
The purchase of ESO stuff via twitch has absoloutely no draw for non twitchers. Why bother when they already make purchases through the official ESO website or, maybe, steam? There will likely be few converts to twitch because of this promotion too. The promotion is not likely good enough for some, if any, to decide 'Hey! I really must get twitch.' as I really want those colllectibles.
I have no problem with the promotion as such and can see how it could be useful to some. I can see the point of any that may state that the promotion is just too lack lustre to be meaningful (to the user).
Contrary to what may be taken from what I have written, my twitch account is now linked to my ESO account. I'm not likely to be logging in and using twitch any time soon though unless ZOS do a live broadcast!
Take the promotion and enjoy any reward you get or do not!
*OK! I could have twitch streams muted and unwatched in the background when using PC(s) for other things or even on phone when out and about. It's really not worth having in background while on PC and my phone is controlled by me not the other way round. I could also set something up to be permanently online, my RPI3 maybe, and have it logged in to twitch and probably connect to multiple streams to try to ensure connection and enhance the chance of getting the 'free' drop. It's all a bit pointless to me to do those things though. (I know others will disagree).
EDIT rather than new post and after a re-read;
From the web page linked up thread; 'When Twitch Drops go live, you'll have a chance to receive a Welkynd Ouroboros Crown Crate at the end of a supported stream (not during).'
So this seems to indicate that there is no point having a 24/7 connection. Also, we are likely to have to be actively watching or participating in the stream (chat). Well that's not really incentivising me! I'm sure that, for many, this will be just swell. Enjoy - or do not.
Also Edit: minor emphasis!Edited by Night_Watch on May 17, 2018 8:37PM"If there is an underlying oneness of all things, it does not matter where we begin, whether with stars, or laws of supply and demand, or frogs, or Napoleon Bonaparte. One measures a circle, beginning anywhere."
Charles Fort - Lo! (1931)0 -
Rawkan✭✭✭✭✭vamp_emily wrote: »From my point of view, the people who disagree with zeni's business models are the victims. Just because they disagree they are told to quit crying, get over it, grow up or go play another game.
These "victims" are free to leave the game. At this point a lot of people just seem addicted to complaining on the forums about anything.
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Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭vamp_emily wrote: »From my point of view, the people who disagree with zeni's business models are the victims. Just because they disagree they are told to quit crying, get over it, grow up or go play another game.
These "victims" are free to leave the game. At this point a lot of people just seem addicted to complaining on the forums about anything.
And at this point it seems some have a habit of following these other "complainers" around and complaining about their complaining instead of actually providing anything meaningful to the discussion.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax9 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭vamp_emily wrote: »From my point of view, the people who disagree with zeni's business models are the victims. Just because they disagree they are told to quit crying, get over it, grow up or go play another game.
These "victims" are free to leave the game. At this point a lot of people just seem addicted to complaining on the forums about anything.
I'm not a victim, cause I haven't bought crowns since 9 months ago, just saying that this whole twitch marketing ploy to get rewards in game you have to leave it up streaming which some people don't have unlimited bandwith or cell phone service as well so its biased.
This is the dumbest idea ever, if they wanted to market it better and easier copy Blizzard and other companies using a simple click Date to Date reward system on Twitch, rather than forcing people to stream it in the background.1 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭vamp_emily wrote: »From my point of view, the people who disagree with zeni's business models are the victims. Just because they disagree they are told to quit crying, get over it, grow up or go play another game.
These "victims" are free to leave the game. At this point a lot of people just seem addicted to complaining on the forums about anything.
I'm not a victim, cause I haven't bought crowns since 9 months ago, just saying that this whole twitch marketing ploy to get rewards in game you have to leave it up streaming which some people don't have unlimited bandwith or cell phone service as well so its biased.
This is the dumbest idea ever, if they wanted to market it better and easier copy Blizzard and other companies using a simple click Date to Date reward system on Twitch, rather than forcing people to stream it in the background.
Are you sure Twitch itself isn't on this bargin? Twitch would LOVE people to have their website running in the background with ads 24/7. Too little info to peg it on just ZoS/Twitch or both.
I would assume twitch setup how it works though as it is their service. ESO is just using them to advert basically. ZoS has no real control over how twitch handles their end.
Could be both parties too. I am gonna go with that.Edited by karekiz on May 17, 2018 10:50PM0 -
Rain_Greyraven✭✭✭✭✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »vamp_emily wrote: »From my point of view, the people who disagree with zeni's business models are the victims. Just because they disagree they are told to quit crying, get over it, grow up or go play another game.
These "victims" are free to leave the game. At this point a lot of people just seem addicted to complaining on the forums about anything.
And at this point it seems some have a habit of following these other "complainers" around and complaining about their complaining instead of actually providing anything meaningful to the discussion.
That's a ridiculous assertion...the same 15-20 perpetually outraged individuals make a point to post several rage post a day and always ...always show up to cry whenever Zeni makes any type of business decision...no one has to follow anyone around."Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.”
― Robert E. Howard
So you want to be a game developer? Here is the best way to go about it.3 -
Mureel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭My ESO account is already linked to Steam and even that was too much dependence for my taste. What's next, Facebook-exclusive crown crates? Because Facebook tries to get everything under the sun to make me link to it already. Or Google. I mean honestly, this linking stuff is getting out of hand. Whatever happened to just giving people a URL to follow? Maybe I don't want everything on my internets to be intimately connected with everything else there.
And that's not even getting into how horribly frustrating I find it to watch other people play video games instead of playing them myself, I mean I've left friends' houses for that BS before...
THIS SO MUCH!
Also, I love listening to some manchild voice going UMMM and UHHH for 20 mins. Hard Pass.2 -
Rain_Greyraven✭✭✭✭✭My ESO account is already linked to Steam and even that was too much dependence for my taste. What's next, Facebook-exclusive crown crates? Because Facebook tries to get everything under the sun to make me link to it already. Or Google. I mean honestly, this linking stuff is getting out of hand. Whatever happened to just giving people a URL to follow? Maybe I don't want everything on my internets to be intimately connected with everything else there.
And that's not even getting into how horribly frustrating I find it to watch other people play video games instead of playing them myself, I mean I've left friends' houses for that BS before...
THIS SO MUCH!
Also, I love listening to some manchild voice going UMMM and UHHH for 20 mins. Hard Pass.
I dunno...I listen to soph88ie who is a pretty hard core end game player as is Ninja614, not to mention the Altcast crew......I would hardly call any of them Menchildren.
Honestly give me that over the Hipster dolts on steam that are too busy dog piling anything they don't find "indy" enough.
Different strokes."Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.”
― Robert E. Howard
So you want to be a game developer? Here is the best way to go about it.0 -
ArvenAldmeri✭✭✭✭✭Rain_Greyraven wrote: »Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »vamp_emily wrote: »From my point of view, the people who disagree with zeni's business models are the victims. Just because they disagree they are told to quit crying, get over it, grow up or go play another game.
These "victims" are free to leave the game. At this point a lot of people just seem addicted to complaining on the forums about anything.
And at this point it seems some have a habit of following these other "complainers" around and complaining about their complaining instead of actually providing anything meaningful to the discussion.
That's a ridiculous assertion...the same 15-20 perpetually outraged individuals make a point to post several rage post a day and always ...always show up to cry whenever Zeni makes any type of business decision...no one has to follow anyone around.
Except you kinda do, dont you? Since you have such a view on everything - "the same 15-20 perpetually outraged individuals..." At least you come to my post complaining its "duplicate" even tho its about discussing certain part of the crates not the crates in general.Magicka sorcerer from start until the end. Always. Through the good times and the bad, even now when its probably saddest PvE dps it has ever been.
Even as an owner of one radiant apex mounts I am against radiant apex mounts and anything thats not obtainable by direct purchase.2 -
Rain_Greyraven✭✭✭✭✭Zos sure seem to like to upset their customers don't they..
Upsetting Millennial's isn't that hard to do
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.”
― Robert E. Howard
So you want to be a game developer? Here is the best way to go about it.3 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭My ESO account is already linked to Steam and even that was too much dependence for my taste. What's next, Facebook-exclusive crown crates? Because Facebook tries to get everything under the sun to make me link to it already. Or Google. I mean honestly, this linking stuff is getting out of hand. Whatever happened to just giving people a URL to follow? Maybe I don't want everything on my internets to be intimately connected with everything else there.
And that's not even getting into how horribly frustrating I find it to watch other people play video games instead of playing them myself, I mean I've left friends' houses for that BS before...
THIS SO MUCH!
Also, I love listening to some manchild voice going UMMM and UHHH for 20 mins. Hard Pass.
I vote Twitter is next, with every 1,000 Twitters you post you earn a crate1 -
Mureel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Rain_Greyraven wrote: »My ESO account is already linked to Steam and even that was too much dependence for my taste. What's next, Facebook-exclusive crown crates? Because Facebook tries to get everything under the sun to make me link to it already. Or Google. I mean honestly, this linking stuff is getting out of hand. Whatever happened to just giving people a URL to follow? Maybe I don't want everything on my internets to be intimately connected with everything else there.
And that's not even getting into how horribly frustrating I find it to watch other people play video games instead of playing them myself, I mean I've left friends' houses for that BS before...
THIS SO MUCH!
Also, I love listening to some manchild voice going UMMM and UHHH for 20 mins. Hard Pass.
I dunno...I listen to soph88ie who is a pretty hard core end game player as is Ninja614, not to mention the Altcast crew......I would hardly call any of them Menchildren.
Honestly give me that over the Hipster dolts on steam that are too busy dog piling anything they don't find "indy" enough.
Different strokes.
You name 2 out of how many? xD Thanks for the suggestions though!
I don't do ANYTHING on Steam. So idk about that.0 -
The_Saint✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭sylviermoone wrote: »I fail to see why this is an issue. As a streamer, I'm happy that ZOS is adding some incentive for people to watch streams. I think adding a Twitch store for people to purchase crowns from is also fine. People ask what costume I'm wearing, what hat I'm wearing or what mount I'm riding all the time. If they can just click over and grab a crown pack while watching the stream, that's fine, too.
I just hope that people can earn drops from anyone streaming ESO rather than just a select few streamers.
@sylviermoone
Sorry but it will not be any ESO streamZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »@ZOS_GinaBruno
Have there been any decisions made as to which broadcasters will be selected to have twitch drop enabled on their stream? Or will it be a random selection process?
There will be a process that is not random, but the details are still being finalized. We'll be sure to let everyone know ahead of time, though.0 -
dsalter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭i can see this move biting ZoS even more than aiding them "publicly advertising" ESO because its going to show just how much of a laggy, buggy mess the game actually is in PvP or how pathetically done difficulty is in PvE, because streamers want views.
what gets views?
criticism and dissing bad games.
also to those thinking "its just twitch just run it in the background why you have to be mad its FrEe StuFf NoOb."
this took up development time and cost them money to setup, they had to focus a team on making this happen.
money and effort that could have been used to improve the game.PLEASE REPLY TO ME WITH @dsalter otherwise i'm likely to miss the reply if its not my own thread
EU - [Arch Mage Dave] Altmer Sorcerer
Fight back at the crates and boxes, together we can change things.0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭this took up development time and cost them money to setup, they had to focus a team on making this happen.
money and effort that could have been used to improve the game.
Not really.
The mount is a reskin.
Anything else is random consumable.
The process itself is more on Twitch's side.
Manhours involved from ZOS side are in the law/finance/marketing department. Nothing interchangeable with content development or coding.
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dsalter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »this took up development time and cost them money to setup, they had to focus a team on making this happen.
money and effort that could have been used to improve the game.
Not really.
The mount is a reskin.
Anything else is random consumable.
The process itself is more on Twitch's side.
Manhours involved from ZOS side are in the law/finance/marketing department. Nothing interchangeable with content development or coding.
it may be just a reskin, but they had to manually skin it, make sure none of the textures didnt distort, then they had to program it so the game knows how to recieve these crates from their database, they had to get into contact with twitch, work out an arrangement, pay fees, apply said settings after paying, work on advertisement for said "event" and finally proof read it then post.
and thats without including more people who decided what else goes in the crate without it including stuff they'd had in others, tweaked odds etc.
remember ZoS is a business, where we see "easy reskin no effort" they have to do many more steps to make sure they can hand it out in a manor that makes sure they get money.PLEASE REPLY TO ME WITH @dsalter otherwise i'm likely to miss the reply if its not my own thread
EU - [Arch Mage Dave] Altmer Sorcerer
Fight back at the crates and boxes, together we can change things.0
