Why IC is a dead Zone

fred4 · May 2018

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

Menelaos wrote: »

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

...Concerning IC...

You have some viable points with the overall design of IC. Much of what you say is basically your opinion (insert Dude Lebowsky meme here) and others may have a different one. However, by calling other players "cancerous degenerates", just because they don't play IC to your liking, you lose all credibility and sympathy here. It's just not the way people should be treated.

Gankers are well aware of what they're doing. They can easily ruin 1 hour of farming for another player, which is something that should be impossible or at the very least much harder than it is currently. I mean how do you justify getting 20k Tel Var with an empowered dizzying swing + onslaught or by sniping someone while he's soloing a boss?

Those people know how frustrating their behaviour is to farmers and they do it anyways. I was once chased by 2 shieldbreaking proctards using snare poisons and cost increases...rip my sorc and rip my Tel Var. And it's not like IC is the only place to go ganking, you can always do that in Cyrodiil. Even though it's a broken mechanic it doesn't harm others to such an extent if you're outside of IC.

So yes, I call those people cancerous degenerates, because that's what they are.

It sounds to me like you can't cope with the mix of PvP and PvE in IC and you are just very salty. Everything you say represents the opposite of how I feel about IC. It's my favorite place in the game. I was there when I knew nothing, when the mobs were a lot harder and I mostly PvEd. I've been there, later, as a farmer, as a ganker, and as a general PvPer. I've been there as NB, as DK, as warden, as templar.

This is a place of predators and prey. It's a place of risk and reward, and if I didn't lose half my Tel Var dying to a boss, or gain half someone else's ganking, I'd be terribly bored. This idea that farming Tel Var entitles you to keep them, or most of them, is weird. Completely missing the point of the Tel Var multiplier, and of the Imperial Physique set. I love it.

Not only do I know what I'm doing as a ganker, I fully accept that there are two ways of making Tel Var. Farming bosses, when your faction owns most of the districts, and farming players when an opposing faction does. You are totally free to set your level of risk / reward by using Retreat sigils, or by wearing Imperial Physique.

I have no idea how you can describe the place as clunky. One of the main reasons I go to IC is that Cyro is usually laggy af. Nothing works in Cyro at prime time. Skills are delayed. Sounds cut out. Bar swaps fail. You are reduced to spamming whatever it is you are spamming. That doesn't really happen in IC, possibly because the population is so low. Well, thank God for that. It's the one place where I feel the game actually plays as intended.

If a boss one-hits you, then you need to adapt your build to the place. Instead of wearing Wizard's Riposte, for example, wear Armor Master. It's easy to forget that gear that makes you tanky for PvP (Riposte, Transmutation, Impregnable) doesn't always make you tanky for PvE. Bahraha's sadly does not work in IC, but Blade Cloak and Leki's provide AOE damage reduction, which helps with most of the bosses. Make sure you have some way of dealing with adds. This can be AOE skills, but it can also be the resto-ult to help you through increased damage for a while. Furthermore, one of the simplest ways to spam bosses to death without being squishy or using lots of PvE skills, is to use a ranged Infused weapon with a Prismatic enchant. Works wonders for your DPS against them.

Regarding fights that involve mobs and you calling them unfair. Yes, I often find mobs a nuisance. Yes it can be unfair when only you have all the aggro, but in that case you have to ask yourself how it came to that. If you are squishy and single-target focused, they can be a problem for you. On the other hand, the tankier you are, the more the mobs work to your advantage. A friend of mine runs outright tank builds, and his game plan is to draw bosses into PvP, let them help kill players, and outlive everyone. Another example: I was once attacked by a nightblade who came running in with a lot of mobs in tow and Proxy Det about to go off. The place lends itself to creativity, but I guess you don't see that. My current stamblade uses Shrouded Daggers. Mobs are my friends. If you try to blend into them, I will hit you even harder. I've heard of another player who used Reaper's Mark to gain Major Berserk from a mob, before attacking a player. On a simpler level mobs also make more reliable targets, than players, to gain resources and ultimate from with heavy attacks.

Cryptical · May 2018

Joshua261 wrote: »

I can't stand PVP at the best of times but I will say this, I enjoyed IC until they altered it and made the District Flag mechanic.

The funny thing is, taking flags is a pvE activity. So is taking keeps and surrounding resources.

All the pvp people are running around chasing pvE locations. They aren’t primarily pvp, they are circumstantial pvp - they don’t run around searching for players, they have a pvE target in mind and battle other players if they obstruct reaching the pvE target.

Since when does anyone knock down the door of a keep and say “Well, nobody here, let’s go find a place with some players defending it”..? From watching zone chat while grinding out caltrops / rapids / vigor I have NEVER seen anything remotely like that said.

So. The question is, what are the cyrodiil pvE players going to do to stop chasing away the pve players from the rest of the world? Because there’s only so many carrots that zeni can dangle to entice people to participate in cyrodiil.

At some point, it has to be recognized that people who are fine farming vet dungeons would be fine farming mobs in IC or farming flags in the districts or Cyro. Pve farmers that are just fine implementing exacting standards upon themselves to ensure maximum team effectiveness and coordination for trial content would find it relaxing to be held to the lower requirements for taking the pve objective flags in Cyro and ic. And yes, the requirements are lower. As a healer, there are unquestioned metas that have to be followed in order to be considered anything more than third rate. Which sets, which traits, glyphs, potions and skills, on both bars - is all determined meta that has to be followed. Whereas, in Cyro nobody cares if the healer is even wearing 7 pieces of armor.

At some point it has to be recognized that there are elements of the circumstantial pvp that have soured a large number of the pve players on even entering the zone.

fred4 · May 2018

notyuu wrote: »

-Unless you are super amazing, you will die, be it from gankers, getting 1-shot by a boss or being steamrolled by 30 people coming though the district door as you were passing by.

You will very rarely die, if you are a cloaking NB and give everyone a wide berth. If you're really just there to quest, get skyshards, and such, you can approximate NB gameplay by using Night Silence (stam) or Shadow Dancer (mag), possibly combined with Nightmother's Embrace (reduced Detection radius). Also level Legerdemain and use Invisibility pots. It won't give you the full NB experience, but I've certainly used that to bring Tel Var home, when I wanted to skimp on Retreat sigils.

There are no actual one-shot boss mechanics in IC. If you are being one shot, you're basically (a) lacking CP, (b) in the no CP campaign (don't do that) or (c) wearing too squishy gear / too low health / not enough defensive skills.

The most enemy players my addon ever counted were around 15. Yes you will mostly die to zergs. About half the enemy players left me alone, though, when I was there with a below level 50 character.

fred4 · May 2018

If you must Tel Var farm, and you are not a PvPer, here's my recommendation for you: Go with your guild, or find a group, and stick with them. Don't ball up really tight, or you may be bombed, but do stay within 8 meters, or so, of the group. Don't dilly-dally, don't admire the scenery. Keep levelling your riding speed. The last person through the door to another district gets ganked. Good PvPers know this, and they virtually always go near-smultaneously through doors.

I can also always tell a PvEer taking a flag. They just stand there. Not good. If you stand still, you are the ideal target for a heavy attack from cloak combo. PvPers move around, or they block, or they shield, or they Fear, or they run Magelight, armor buffs, Crit Surge, Hurricane, Caltrops, Elemental Blockade, Mage Rune, Warden Rune, Templar Rune, Extended Ritual, and so on. PvPers are always buffed and ready, should a nightblade attack. The more group-focused players run Revealing Flare. For sorcs I highly recommend Defensive Rune and Lightning Form.

Marginis · May 2018

fred4 wrote: »

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

Menelaos wrote: »

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

...Concerning IC...

You have some viable points with the overall design of IC. Much of what you say is basically your opinion (insert Dude Lebowsky meme here) and others may have a different one. However, by calling other players "cancerous degenerates", just because they don't play IC to your liking, you lose all credibility and sympathy here. It's just not the way people should be treated.

Gankers are well aware of what they're doing. They can easily ruin 1 hour of farming for another player, which is something that should be impossible or at the very least much harder than it is currently. I mean how do you justify getting 20k Tel Var with an empowered dizzying swing + onslaught or by sniping someone while he's soloing a boss?

Those people know how frustrating their behaviour is to farmers and they do it anyways. I was once chased by 2 shieldbreaking proctards using snare poisons and cost increases...rip my sorc and rip my Tel Var. And it's not like IC is the only place to go ganking, you can always do that in Cyrodiil. Even though it's a broken mechanic it doesn't harm others to such an extent if you're outside of IC.

So yes, I call those people cancerous degenerates, because that's what they are.

It sounds to me like you can't cope with the mix of PvP and PvE in IC and you are just very salty. Everything you say represents the opposite of how I feel about IC. It's my favorite place in the game. I was there when I knew nothing, when the mobs were a lot harder and I mostly PvEd. I've been there, later, as a farmer, as a ganker, and as a general PvPer. I've been there as NB, as DK, as warden, as templar.

This is a place of predators and prey. It's a place of risk and reward, and if I didn't lose half my Tel Var dying to a boss, or gain half someone else's ganking, I'd be terribly bored. This idea that farming Tel Var entitles you to keep them, or most of them, is weird. Completely missing the point of the Tel Var multiplier, and of the Imperial Physique set. I love it.

Not only do I know what I'm doing as a ganker, I fully accept that there are two ways of making Tel Var. Farming bosses, when your faction owns most of the districts, and farming players when an opposing faction does. You are totally free to set your level of risk / reward by using Retreat sigils, or by wearing Imperial Physique.

I have no idea how you can describe the place as clunky. One of the main reasons I go to IC is that Cyro is usually laggy af. Nothing works in Cyro at prime time. Skills are delayed. Sounds cut out. Bar swaps fail. You are reduced to spamming whatever it is you are spamming. That doesn't really happen in IC, possibly because the population is so low. Well, thank God for that. It's the one place where I feel the game actually plays as intended.

If a boss one-hits you, then you need to adapt your build to the place. Instead of wearing Wizard's Riposte, for example, wear Armor Master. It's easy to forget that gear that makes you tanky for PvP (Riposte, Transmutation, Impregnable) doesn't always make you tanky for PvE. Bahraha's sadly does not work in IC, but Blade Cloak and Leki's provide AOE damage reduction, which helps with most of the bosses. Make sure you have some way of dealing with adds. This can be AOE skills, but it can also be the resto-ult to help you through increased damage for a while. Furthermore, one of the simplest ways to spam bosses to death without being squishy or using lots of PvE skills, is to use a ranged Infused weapon with a Prismatic enchant. Works wonders for your DPS against them.

Regarding fights that involve mobs and you calling them unfair. Yes, I often find mobs a nuisance. Yes it can be unfair when only you have all the aggro, but in that case you have to ask yourself how it came to that. If you are squishy and single-target focused, they can be a problem for you. On the other hand, the tankier you are, the more the mobs work to your advantage. A friend of mine runs outright tank builds, and his game plan is to draw bosses into PvP, let them help kill players, and outlive everyone. Another example: I was once attacked by a nightblade who came running in with a lot of mobs in tow and Proxy Det about to go off. The place lends itself to creativity, but I guess you don't see that. My current stamblade uses Shrouded Daggers. Mobs are my friends. If you try to blend into them, I will hit you even harder. I've heard of another player who used Reaper's Mark to gain Major Berserk from a mob, before attacking a player. On a simpler level mobs also make more reliable targets, than players, to gain resources and ultimate from with heavy attacks.

Spoken like a true cancerous degenerate.

...I'm not sure if I'm saying that ironically or not.

Minno · May 2018

omgiztim wrote: »

Are you kidding me. Farming tell var is so easy. Most people in this zone are focused on flipping flags. There are many isolated areas to farm.

Risk is very minimal and even if caught you can regain what you lost within 10-15 minutes.

Take 1000 tel var to get the bonus. Run a route to gain 10,000 tell var in 20 minutes and end at the bank. Rince and repeat. I have over 2 mil tel var in the bank and never have taken a loss that I couldn't recoup in 10 min.

I agree IC needs some love to attract more people but not change the current system.

Thanks reminding me that I need to kill more players IC

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos · May 2018

The least they could do is to make it directly queable. A campaign in itself.

Many have been wanting this since the release...

waitwhat · May 2018

I would make it so that we can queue for and directly enter the Imperial City. It's such a pain to get there, especially for people in die-hard PvP guilds, because we always get pulled off for something on our way there or we feel bad for taking up a spot in a pop-locked campaign.

We would need pop bars specific to the city to judge pop counts however.

It's very important not to be seen first--or at all--in the Imperial City, so those streets may be more busy that you imagine.

fred4 · May 2018

Marginis wrote: »

Spoken like a true cancerous degenerate.

...I'm not sure if I'm saying that ironically or not.

Oh how very clever you sound to yourself. Just realise that all I'm getting from that is the obvious insult. If you have some actual substance, you'll have to be more specific.

All I can gather is that some of you don't like IC. It's a big game. Probably no one likes all of it equally. I can't tell whether some of you are miffed there's content - the quests in IC - that you could not finish, although I'm sure you can with help from a group. Or whether it's the Tel Var stealing aspect of IC. Perhaps it is nightblades in general. All I can say is, if you have the mindset that Tel Var grinding should give you consistent results, you're coming at IC the wrong way. It's more like easy come, easy go. You have to take your opportunities, whether that is soloing a boss or doing PvP. I can sort of understand how you might be upset to have 10K Tel Var stolen that you farmed for an hour under non-ideal conditions. Thing is, that's not the way to approach farming. 10K is the amount you get for soloing a single boss, with all flags turned and 1K starting money. When you see that opportunity, you grab the boss and you make those 10K in 5 minutes. If you are Tel Var poor and a bit mean, or just concerned about gankers, you can squirrel him away in a building. That's the way to farm.

Perhaps you ascribe some sort of morality to ESO characters? I sometimes do. I think being zerged is much like schoolyard bullying. On the other hand, this is a game. You and I don't kill or beat up other people in real life, right? By the same token I have no compuction to try anything and everything the game allows me to do. Do I gank people as NB? Hell, yeah! Do I care what their level is? Now I do. If I realise you are a lowbie, and not part of a group, I'll leave you alone. But that's because I've moved past you being a challenge.

pdebie64b16_ESO · May 2018

WildWilbur wrote: »

Anyone remembers Darkness Falls in DAoC? You had to fight in RvR to open it for your realm and wipe the other realms from the dungeon. And you could log out in DF and log in later to gank a few farmer (which didn't lose anything). High risk high reward. Ah, those were the days...

It was my favorite PvP and PvE zone.

Problem with IC is the sewers are to narrow and to much mobs packed to eachother, good for PvE bad for PvP, the entrances to DF were in PvE zones so easier accessable compared to IC, ie long rides to entrances and queues in some campains. DF has seals what could be trade in for usefull items, even endgame gear and crafters could salvage those items for raw materials, IC has Telvar stones but not many good items you can buy for it, the key fragments are only good for items from ICP or WTG and are pretty expensive. Also the loss of Telvar stones each death doenst apply to players.

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER · May 2018

IC isnt dead. PC EU here. vivec always action, shor always action, heck even no cp there is nearly at any time ALWAYS some action.

sometimes huge groups, sometimes smallscalers, sometimes pve heroes.

And even sewers arent dead, there are still 40 man groups that farm molag bal. IC is everything, but not dead.

geonsocal · May 2018

we got that update with the district flags included - and, it actually made pvp worse...

plus, they added in the delightful t-bag timer...not good...

the flags are an epic fail - IC means *** to the campaign except for bleeding off the faction populations...

i'm sure there are reasons, but, there is little excuse for IC being so poorly managed...

maybe there's some "data" we're all not seeing - but, just from a pvpers' perspective - big missed opportunity...

no thanks on new battleground maps - fix the imperial city so that it becomes a better pvp option...

the environment and npcs aren't the problem - access and restrictive rezzing rules (should be able to rez at any friendly alliance platform in any district) are *** up the flow...

buffing the AP awarded for killing enemy players in IC wouldn't be a bad thing either...

it's raining AP in cyrodiil, and pouring AP in battlegrounds...

at least for myself - AP barely flows at all in IC...

geonsocal · May 2018

waitwhat wrote: »

I would make it so that we can queue for and directly enter the Imperial City. It's such a pain to get there, especially for people in die-hard PvP guilds, because we always get pulled off for something on our way there or we feel bad for taking up a spot in a pop-locked campaign.

We would need pop bars specific to the city to judge pop counts however.

It's very important not to be seen first--or at all--in the Imperial City, so those streets may be more busy that you imagine.

some really great comments in this thread...

fred4 wrote: »

PvPers move around, or they block, or they shield, or they Fear, or they run Magelight, armor buffs, Crit Surge, Hurricane, Caltrops, Elemental Blockade, Mage Rune, Warden Rune, Templar Rune, Extended Ritual, and so on. PvPers are always buffed and ready, should a nightblade attack.

i know i've been standing on a flag running through rotations with other players around wondering what the hell was wrong with me...

if you even suspect there might be some folks around ready to do you harm while you'r waiting for the flag to flip (seems to take forever if you'e standing there alone) - buff and shield, buff and shield, buff and shield...

fred4 · May 2018

geonsocal wrote: »

i know i've been standing on a flag running through rotations with other players around wondering what the hell was wrong with me...

if you even suspect there might be some folks around ready to do you harm while you'r waiting for the flag to flip (seems to take forever if you'e standing there alone) - buff and shield, buff and shield, buff and shield...

Yep. This runs even deeper still. I mostly play magicka, stacking magicka as high as I can for maximum shields and damage. My health comes in at just over 20K in CP. Basically you have to shield with that low health, but once you do, it's no problem. Your shield / buff discipline feeds into what builds you deem viable. Some people like 25K+ health. Some like all Impen. Some prefer half Well-Fitted. It comes down to habits and playstyle. For me, I've never rated health as that important, but I value shields and resistances or something equivalent, like the Minor Maim from Riposte.

kargen27 · May 2018

Cryptical wrote: »

Joshua261 wrote: »

I can't stand PVP at the best of times but I will say this, I enjoyed IC until they altered it and made the District Flag mechanic.

The funny thing is, taking flags is a pvE activity. So is taking keeps and surrounding resources.

All the pvp people are running around chasing pvE locations. They aren’t primarily pvp, they are circumstantial pvp - they don’t run around searching for players, they have a pvE target in mind and battle other players if they obstruct reaching the pvE target.

Since when does anyone knock down the door of a keep and say “Well, nobody here, let’s go find a place with some players defending it”..? From watching zone chat while grinding out caltrops / rapids / vigor I have NEVER seen anything remotely like that said.

So. The question is, what are the cyrodiil pvE players going to do to stop chasing away the pve players from the rest of the world? Because there’s only so many carrots that zeni can dangle to entice people to participate in cyrodiil.

At some point, it has to be recognized that people who are fine farming vet dungeons would be fine farming mobs in IC or farming flags in the districts or Cyro. Pve farmers that are just fine implementing exacting standards upon themselves to ensure maximum team effectiveness and coordination for trial content would find it relaxing to be held to the lower requirements for taking the pve objective flags in Cyro and ic. And yes, the requirements are lower. As a healer, there are unquestioned metas that have to be followed in order to be considered anything more than third rate. Which sets, which traits, glyphs, potions and skills, on both bars - is all determined meta that has to be followed. Whereas, in Cyro nobody cares if the healer is even wearing 7 pieces of armor.

At some point it has to be recognized that there are elements of the circumstantial pvp that have soured a large number of the pve players on even entering the zone.

Seems you are hanging with the wrong crowd. I know players groups and even entire guilds that thrive on the battles and not flipping the keeps. They often get grief for it from their own factions when they are seen as not contributing to controlling the map or helping crown an emperor. Zone chat can be filled with hate demanding people quit fighting at Chalman and instead head towards some other keep to help flip it. Near the Chalman mine you can often find all kinds of fun fights with neither side particularly interested in what the map looks like. Player vs Door is something that is done when there isn't a fight to be had. Spend some time at one of the gates or a bridge and you will see a lot of players are there to battle one another be it ganking, small groups or huge epic battles. Sometimes they even refrain from burning camps so they can kill the enemy all over again. Can be great fun.

Marginis · May 2018

fred4 wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

Spoken like a true cancerous degenerate.

...I'm not sure if I'm saying that ironically or not.

Oh how very clever you sound to yourself. Just realise that all I'm getting from that is the obvious insult. If you have some actual substance, you'll have to be more specific.

All I can gather is that some of you don't like IC. It's a big game. Probably no one likes all of it equally. I can't tell whether some of you are miffed there's content - the quests in IC - that you could not finish, although I'm sure you can with help from a group. Or whether it's the Tel Var stealing aspect of IC. Perhaps it is nightblades in general. All I can say is, if you have the mindset that Tel Var grinding should give you consistent results, you're coming at IC the wrong way. It's more like easy come, easy go. You have to take your opportunities, whether that is soloing a boss or doing PvP. I can sort of understand how you might be upset to have 10K Tel Var stolen that you farmed for an hour under non-ideal conditions. Thing is, that's not the way to approach farming. 10K is the amount you get for soloing a single boss, with all flags turned and 1K starting money. When you see that opportunity, you grab the boss and you make those 10K in 5 minutes. If you are Tel Var poor and a bit mean, or just concerned about gankers, you can squirrel him away in a building. That's the way to farm.

Perhaps you ascribe some sort of morality to ESO characters? I sometimes do. I think being zerged is much like schoolyard bullying. On the other hand, this is a game. You and I don't kill or beat up other people in real life, right? By the same token I have no compuction to try anything and everything the game allows me to do. Do I gank people as NB? Hell, yeah! Do I care what their level is? Now I do. If I realise you are a lowbie, and not part of a group, I'll leave you alone. But that's because I've moved past you being a challenge.

The point is that IC is broken, and taking advantage of a bad situation is morally questionable, despite it being technically allowable. I mean, it would be legal for theUS president to drone strike citizens, but does that make it right? Bullying in IC is obviously lesser, but it is still objectionable.

EDIT: And yes I do think I'm clever. Thanks for noticing!

driosketch · May 2018

WildWilbur wrote: »

Anyone remembers Darkness Falls in DAoC? You had to fight in RvR to open it for your realm and wipe the other realms from the dungeon. And you could log out in DF and log in later to gank a few farmer (which didn't lose anything). High risk high reward. Ah, those were the days...

Was that hugely popular at the time. Because it sounds like that's what the tried to do with IC.

IC problems:
-It's a DLC, so not everyone has access. This works for PvE, but seems to be the bane of the PvP crowd, which leads to lower participation. (Hench why I think they are making the correction with BGs becoming base game.)

-It's in the middle of Cyrodiil, and therefore subject to level requirements, both hard and soft (some players think you need to be lvl 50 to survive Cyrodiil), and population caps. Ease of access is also affected by how well you alliance is doing in the war. E.G. You want to take your DC character to IC, but blue controls a keep next to a sewer entrance on only one campaign, and it's pop locked.

-Ganking, signature PvP style of IC, and a hugely polarizing style of play. Some players absolutely love it, others hate it so much they won't set foot in there.

-Mob density, bosses and sweepers. This is what spoils it for the PvPers, as they tend to restrict freedom of movement some what. It also encourages big groups which are more problematic for the solo ganker.

-lack of incentives. This admittedly is something ZOS has been working on. However, some aspects like district capture can also kill off other fun types of game play. Specifically the large battle royal district fights. Current district fights more closely resemble resource fights in Cyrodiil. And of course that type of gameplay already exists in easier to access places.

Talcyndl · May 2018

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

I do. But I want to do the IC quests. I just don't want to have anything to do with PVP.

Then leave the PvP zones to people who do want to PvP. Or at least don't whine when you get killed while questing in the PvP zone.

It's not just a PVP zone. It's got quests. That makes it PVE. PVP is not quests, it's a whole other game where players attack each other. I loath and detest that game. But I like quests.

Nope. In THIS game, the PvP zones have always had some quests included. That includes the kill and capture quests and the random town stuff in Cyrodiil. It also includes all of the quests in IC - which have been changed to encourage more PvP.

But regardless, these are the [relatively VERY small areas] that ZOS has set aside for PvP. If you don't want to PvP (or at least are unwilling to put up with it) go to somewhere else in the game. Pretty simple.

Talcyndl · May 2018

Marginis wrote: »

Bullying in IC is obviously lesser, but it is still objectionable.

"Bullying"

Too f'ing funny. Get over yourself.

fred4 · May 2018

driosketch wrote: »

IC problems:
-It's a DLC, so not everyone has access. This works for PvE, but seems to be the bane of the PvP crowd, which leads to lower participation. (Hench why I think they are making the correction with BGs becoming base game.)

-It's in the middle of Cyrodiil, and therefore subject to level requirements, both hard and soft (some players think you need to be lvl 50 to survive Cyrodiil), and population caps. Ease of access is also affected by how well you alliance is doing in the war. E.G. You want to take your DC character to IC, but blue controls a keep next to a sewer entrance on only one campaign, and it's pop locked.

Agreed.

-Ganking, signature PvP style of IC, and a hugely polarizing style of play. Some players absolutely love it, others hate it so much they won't set foot in there.

I've played both ganking NBs and medium armor characters (DK) that are vulnerable to ganks. Yes, since I play a DW / 2H DK, not focused around blocking, she had trouble with NBs. This has gotten better, since she started wearing Fortified Brass.

NBs are not able to kill everyone. They are opportunists who choose their target and the timing of their attack carefully. This is what makes them so aggravating, but once you play a nightblade, you also realise how limiting that is. It's the only thing you can do. The hit-and-run playstyle is what makes a typical NB work. Stamblades that do high damage, the ones everyone hates, are typically very squishy. Their defense comes from cloak and dodge. Their healing is typically inadequate and will be nerfed hard in Summerset with the cloak crit change. This leads many to spec only for offense. "Offense is the best defense" is a tactic that actually works on a nighblade, but only against squishy enough targets. Defending on a stamblade with Cloak, Shade, dodge, Eternal Hunt, and so on, is not easy, and I respect players for that. This is something I only truly began to appreciate once I started playing stamblade myself. Before that, I hated them.

I have a friend, who I feel (historically) made the mistake of not creating balanced builds. He goes for builds that excel in some way, be it as DD or as a heal tank. Stats mean a lot to him. He came up with some nifty builds, but as a general rule of thumb, I want to say this:

If you spec only for defense, you will die. At the end of the day, PvP is about killing other players. If you are a tank or healer, you will never have the positive experience (weird though this sounds) of killing, but you will only be killed. A single NB won't be able to do so, but soon you will be under siege by multiple players. Unless you get a kick out of seeing how long you can hold out, or you lure them into an IC boss fight they can't handle, you will only ever have negative experiences. I'm talking about solo play, of course. An additional problem is that you'll find it very hard to shed aggro from mobs and change districts, as you can't kill them very fast with an outright tank.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, if you love your damage stats so much, you only spec for damage, you will kill some people, but you will also die a lot. The reason you get ganked is because (a) you haven't duelled an NB and don't know what to do and (b) you are probably way too squishy. If you are too squishy, you will be forced into defense, your attack collapses, and you'll run out of resources. This will only get better with lots of experience.

If you look at any 1vXer, their defenses are typically formidable. They are probably in heavy armor, but with at least one of those sets that gives them a lot of weapon damage, and probably Blood Spawn for the ulti gen. That is the way to build, or at least it's one way (sorcs with high mag / big shields are a different example). I attacked one of those guys recently, and he was bored. He just stood there, doing Rally and Vigor occasionally, and there was nothing I could do with my bursty NB. Yet at the same time I knew, because this was a well-known PvPer, he was well capable of killing. When I review my combat log, having been killed by someone like that, I typically find they have a perfect rotation, applying DOTs and debuffs, which they then follow with their burst, typically at the very least an ulti / execute combo.

If you want to solo, and you are not an NB, then I think that is the way to go. Take a cue from 1vXers and build tanky enough, you simply can't be insta-ganked by NBs, then learn your attack rotations and combo. Don't go for a squisy Snipe build that kills people easily, but that leaves you caught out when you are counter-attacked. That said, I think the best way to solo is to be an NB yourself, or a sorc (for Streak).

There's one last thing I want to say about NBs. Don't go after them. If you feel you are able to, with Detect pots, AOE, and so on, then by all means do, but there is always a 50% chance the NB will get away. In that sense I think the game is currently quite well balanced. Point is, don't run down your resources or leave yourself open to counter-attack, by going after the NB. On the contrary. If the NB cloaks away, you might heavy attack a mob, one of the simple groups of 2 or 3 that are easy to kill, so you regain resources and ultimate. Stay on the flag, where the guards will make life difficult for a single enemy player.

-lack of incentives. This admittedly is something ZOS has been working on. However, some aspects like district capture can also kill off other fun types of game play. Specifically the large battle royal district fights.

I remember those fights fondly, and it's something that's completely gone and sadly missed.

I think on the one hand, lack of incentives isn't an issue. Many people simply don't realise that IC is the place to get alchemy ingredients. Or just plain gold by selling them, or by selling Hakeijos.

ZOS for some inexplicable reason got rid of the diversity of incentives. You can get Tel Var everywhere. Prior to that we had 6 different types of monster trophies that required you to farm different areas, and the sewers were included. Agility and Willpower have lost their value since One Tamriel, so bringing back the old trophy system won't help now, I think. However, regardless of people saying the sewers are not dead, I feel they are completely dead compared to when IC was new. This is where incentives are needed, IMO.

pattyLtd · May 2018

Played this game alot like most here and for me IC started as being a DLC i thought wasnt for me and ended up being the best DLC to this day. But i dont go there anymore :'(

I absolutely loved it and had the most fun there ever in a game UNTIL they decided to make it another capture the flag thinghy.

Why did they do that? Seems like the devs dont like things being popular since they always go to great lengths to force us to play something else after updates.

Compared to before that change it is definetly a dead zone now and its a great loss.

Cyrodiil i find very annoying with all the travelling it involves, battlegrounds trigger my anxiety because i dont like to let my group down. IC was perfect for me to enjoy pvp in a casual fun way.

It was mindless killing and being killed and back in the fight in seconds.
I loved that and many others did too.

notyuu · May 2018

Also, I wouldn't exactly call it a dead zone
12:45pm on a thrusday... about as "off-peak" as you can get, shor, 1 bar for each faction
in IC for 5 mins and I founded.. 17 red, 15 blues and 13 yellows...in the arboretum
so i go "*** that" hop over to the temple district [which is/was yellow controlled] and proceeded to get rolfstomped by 4 more reds...at which point I went "ah..now I remember why I stopped coming here...cuz getting 2-shot in less than a second is not fun"

ChefZero · May 2018

Complaining about get killed while soloing a Open-PvP-Zone...

Honestly, I think many people don't fit in PvP by attitude and personality. Open PvP is never fair in any MMO, there are MMOs whiteout RvR, AvA, etc where you can get killed by every player who isn't in your party while questing or farming something.

I don't want to offend anyone, only want to say that some personalities can handle failures and death's better than others and don't play just for fun (subjective assessment) but also want to become stronger and fit in PvP better.

TheRealPotoroo · May 2018

Talcyndl wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

I do. But I want to do the IC quests. I just don't want to have anything to do with PVP.

Then leave the PvP zones to people who do want to PvP. Or at least don't whine when you get killed while questing in the PvP zone.

It's not just a PVP zone. It's got quests. That makes it PVE. PVP is not quests, it's a whole other game where players attack each other. I loath and detest that game. But I like quests.

Nope. In THIS game, the PvP zones have always had some quests included. That includes the kill and capture quests and the random town stuff in Cyrodiil. It also includes all of the quests in IC - which have been changed to encourage more PvP.

But regardless, these are the [relatively VERY small areas] that ZOS has set aside for PvP. If you don't want to PvP (or at least are unwilling to put up with it) go to somewhere else in the game. Pretty simple.

I do go somewhere else. How many times do I have to say I go somewhere else before you'll pay attention to the fact that I do go somewhere else? But I want to do the IC quests because they are quests (which are not PVP, cannot be PVP and never will be PVP). I want to do the PVE because I like PVE. I do not want to do PVP because that's a completely different game, one I don't like or play.

Marginis · May 2018

Talcyndl wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

Bullying in IC is obviously lesser, but it is still objectionable.

"Bullying"

Too f'ing funny. Get over yourself.

You seem like the type of person who enjoys being mean to people for no reason, aka trolling. Those type of people are what I like to call "bad". 'Cuz they're d***s.

I understand a mod is probably going to edit/remove some of these comments, but like, can we not be mean to each other? Not trolling is actually really easy to do.

Prince_of_all_Pugs · May 2018

IC is just a watering hole for PVPers that need potions lol. Thats all it is.

Ectheliontnacil · May 2018

@Prince_of_all_Pugs

You're right, that's what I use IC for. But I don't enjoy pvp there and I don't enjoy the farming. I'm only in IC because I don't know any good grind spots.

FireCowCommando · May 2018

IDK, for me IC is dead because of a failure of design.

The PvE rewards are not good or unique enough to justify the risk/time invested, and neither is the challenge or experience. If there had been a more flushed out design, with a high rewarding experience(s) like a large raid that required many players for a large payout or rare & desirable loot you would see players in IC today.

And the PvP side is much worse. There is no objective in IC that impacts the game in a meaningful way, or any PvP experience that you cant get anywhere else in the game (aside from stealing an unknown amount of TV over any period of time).

If there had been both a gated entry to IC by map control of Cyrodil and a prolonged highly rewarding PvE experience that was a long timer (with adequate warning) IC would still be alive today.

An easy example of rewarding loot that wouldn't of even required effort at the time of IC's release: V16 master weapons from vDSA out of this raid level experience.

Even more troubling is that no department failed its job; art, sound, animation, ect. all function as intended... ZoS just didn't have enough vision to execute anything of interest.

fred4 · May 2018

FireCowCommando wrote: »

There is no ..., or any PvP experience that you cant get anywhere else in the game.

Yes, there is: Lag free play

.

Talcyndl · May 2018

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

But I want...

I want to complete The Maelstrom Arena and get the perfect weapon. I just don't want to have to worry about building a character for PvE, or have to actually do PvE.