Why IC is a dead Zone

Talcyndl · May 2018

Marginis wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

Bullying in IC is obviously lesser, but it is still objectionable.

"Bullying"

Too f'ing funny. Get over yourself.

You seem like the type of person who enjoys being mean to people for no reason, aka trolling. Those type of people are what I like to call "bad". 'Cuz they're d***s.

I understand a mod is probably going to edit/remove some of these comments, but like, can we not be mean to each other? Not trolling is actually really easy to do.

I want to PvP in the PvP zone. I get killed all the time in there. Some folks want the game to cater to their particular desires, even if it breaks the actual way parts of the game are designed. That's you. That's kind of being selfish, don't you think?

I'm not going in to PvE zones and screwing with people by pulling mobs on top of them. I'm simply trying to PvP in one of the only PvP zones in the game.

Marginis · May 2018

Talcyndl wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

Bullying in IC is obviously lesser, but it is still objectionable.

"Bullying"

Too f'ing funny. Get over yourself.

You seem like the type of person who enjoys being mean to people for no reason, aka trolling. Those type of people are what I like to call "bad". 'Cuz they're d***s.

I understand a mod is probably going to edit/remove some of these comments, but like, can we not be mean to each other? Not trolling is actually really easy to do.

I want to PvP in the PvP zone. I get killed all the time in there. Some folks want the game to cater to their particular desires, even if it breaks the actual way parts of the game are designed. That's you. That's kind of being selfish, don't you think?

I'm not going in to PvE zones and screwing with people by pulling mobs on top of them. I'm simply trying to PvP in one of the only PvP zones in the game.

What I'm trying to explain is why the setup has a hard time working - PVPers want to PVP, and PVEers want to PVE. I completely understand the desire to go against a player instead of a mindless NPC - I play more PVP games than I do PVE games, if we're not just talking ESO. What I'm NOT trying to do is say that IC needs to be PVE only or PVP only. What I AM saying is that the way the system is set up right now, it doesn't substantially benefit anyone, because PVEers are taken advantage of by players who take advantage of a broken system, and PVPers can't fully enjoy being predators because their prey avoids it. This in turn makes it worse on the PVEers who DO enter IC, and renews the cycle, making it so that the only people who go into IC are the PVEers who really want something there specifically, and the PVPers who like ruining others' times more than actually getting substantial rewards.

Now, I'm not saying this is the ONLY thing that happens in IC, but this is the kind of thing that IC promotes as it is currently built. It was clearly intended as a very high level activity, for hardcore players that can adapt to both PVE and PVP, but as it is now, either the rewards need to be increased, or the alliance system within IC needs to be changed, or something that breaks this trend that makes IC not terribly enjoyable for all but a few players. If you're one of the few, great, but realize that what this thread is about is making IC better, not about saying that if you don't like it, gtfo.

Talcyndl · May 2018

Marginis wrote: »

If you're one of the few, great, but realize that what this thread is about is making IC better, not about saying that if you don't like it, gtfo.

Given that Cyrodiil and IC are the only zones in the entire game where PvP can occur, my point is that complaints (and a lot of whines) from PvE players should have zero impact on any redesign of IC. It's pretty clear that anytime PvE'ers come into a PvP zone many of them want to receive special hands off treatment - basically be immune to PvP. We saw that with the event in the Cyrodiil towns.

That's ridiculous. Open world PvP is what sold many people on this game. Granted the PvE side has kept the game alive because of the too numerous to count issues with Cyrodiil. But for many of us, the PvP in Cyrodiil and IC is the only reason to keep playing the game. For PvE minded folks, they literally have the ENTIRE rest of the game to play as well as significant new PvE content in every expansion/DLC/etc. that has been and will be released.

TheRealPotoroo · May 2018

Talcyndl wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

But I want...

I want to complete The Maelstrom Arena and get the perfect weapon. I just don't want to have to worry about building a character for PvE, or have to actually do PvE.

Maelstrom is PVE. Mockery fail.

Charliff1966 · May 2018

DanteYoda wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

firedrgn wrote: »

People dont mind geting ganked but losing half your stones seems inequitable to enough players that they dont go back.

Personally i think the quest rewards are too low.

Actually we do mind being ganked. A lot. That's why the overwhelming majority of the player base don't go to IC which is why "how to revive IC" threads keep showing up.

Well said.. Ganking is why i never pvp.. literally they could have apex mounts rain down in there and i'd still never go in...

Same here, its just not worth to spend time in IC.

Marginis · May 2018

Talcyndl wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

If you're one of the few, great, but realize that what this thread is about is making IC better, not about saying that if you don't like it, gtfo.

Given that Cyrodiil and IC are the only zones in the entire game where PvP can occur, my point is that complaints (and a lot of whines) from PvE players should have zero impact on any redesign of IC. It's pretty clear that anytime PvE'ers come into a PvP zone many of them want to receive special hands off treatment - basically be immune to PvP. We saw that with the event in the Cyrodiil towns.

That's ridiculous. Open world PvP is what sold many people on this game. Granted the PvE side has kept the game alive because of the too numerous to count issues with Cyrodiil. But for many of us, the PvP in Cyrodiil and IC is the only reason to keep playing the game. For PvE minded folks, they literally have the ENTIRE rest of the game to play as well as significant new PvE content in every expansion/DLC/etc. that has been and will be released.

You forgot battlegrounds and duels anywhere.

Also, you do realize that saying IC should only care about PVPers is the same thing as saying IC should only care about PVEers, right? I'm saying that IC should be good to players in general. With your mindset, about half of players aren't going to be happy. You need to realize that this isn't a zero sum situation - there's room for compromise and benefit for all; you don't need losers to have winners.

Talcyndl · May 2018

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

But I want...

I want to complete The Maelstrom Arena and get the perfect weapon. I just don't want to have to worry about building a character for PvE, or have to actually do PvE.

Maelstrom is PVE. Mockery fail.

Errr....that was my point. People claiming they want to be able to go to PvP zones without PvP'ing are the equivalent of me wanting to go into a PvE area without having to PvE.

Talcyndl · May 2018

Marginis wrote: »

You forgot battlegrounds and duels anywhere.

Also, you do realize that saying IC should only care about PVPers is the same thing as saying IC should only care about PVEers, right? I'm saying that IC should be good to players in general. With your mindset, about half of players aren't going to be happy. You need to realize that this isn't a zero sum situation - there's room for compromise and benefit for all; you don't need losers to have winners.

I very specifically said "zones" and "open world PvP". The open world aspect of Cyrodiil (and later IC) is what sold this game to a lot of PvP'ers. We want something more than discreet matches in confined maps (ie, Battlegrounds).

As for "compromise" if PvE folks come into PvP areas, the only "compromise" they seem to want is to be immune to PvP. That isn't a compromise. The whole point of open world PvP is to fight the enemies you come across. For many PvE'ers they demand that PvP'ers basically conduct a background check on everyone before engaging. That destroys the nature of the areas.

Marginis · May 2018

Talcyndl wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

You forgot battlegrounds and duels anywhere.

Also, you do realize that saying IC should only care about PVPers is the same thing as saying IC should only care about PVEers, right? I'm saying that IC should be good to players in general. With your mindset, about half of players aren't going to be happy. You need to realize that this isn't a zero sum situation - there's room for compromise and benefit for all; you don't need losers to have winners.

I very specifically said "zones" and "open world PvP". The open world aspect of Cyrodiil (and later IC) is what sold this game to a lot of PvP'ers. We want something more than discreet matches in confined maps (ie, Battlegrounds).

As for "compromise" if PvE folks come into PvP areas, the only "compromise" they seem to want is to be immune to PvP. That isn't a compromise. The whole point of open world PvP is to fight the enemies you come across. For many PvE'ers they demand that PvP'ers basically conduct a background check on everyone before engaging. That destroys the nature of the areas.

On arguments PVEers make like this, I agree with you (and I take your point on BGs and duels). Taking PVP out of IC is not a good solution. It's important to remember not to react to hard in the opposite direction to those arguments though.

I think the main reason people see the only solution as making IC completely PVP or completely PVE is because the ESO ecosystem doesn't support cross PVE/PVP content very well. Personally, I think it's a better idea to discuss how we can fix how ESO handles PVE/PVP content rather than trying to cut our losses and *** off half the playerbase. ESO has PVEers AND PVPers - the game should work for both.

Thunderknuckles · May 2018

The primary thing to me that's truly clunky about IC is the starter quest you have to do to be able to get the dailies. It doesn't so much as give a player a hint as to what to do or where to go next once they complete a portion of it. You talk to the Drake of Blades and she tells you where to go. You go and do the quest and come back and....that's it.

Well, I say that but on occasion a quest icon appears on a message board, but sometimes it doesn't. Then getting back to the Drake can be a serious pita. A new player may not know to go buy a recall stone with Alliance Points to be able to port right back, meaning they have to go ALL the way through the sewers back to their home base. That whole starter quest is just not laid out well.

TheRealPotoroo · May 2018

Talcyndl wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

But I want...

I want to complete The Maelstrom Arena and get the perfect weapon. I just don't want to have to worry about building a character for PvE, or have to actually do PvE.

Maelstrom is PVE. Mockery fail.

Errr....that was my point. People claiming they want to be able to go to PvP zones without PvP'ing are the equivalent of me wanting to go into a PvE area without having to PvE.

IC is not a PVP zone so stop carrying on like you own it. It's a stupid hybrid zone that's all about encouraging people whose only joy in life comes from making other people miserable to plague the rest of us who want nothing to do with them. IC is two different games mashed into one, it doesn't work which is why hardly anyone goes there.

daniel.13b16_ESO · May 2018

kargen27 wrote: »

TheValar85 wrote: »

honestly Ic hase a lot of good ponetntial stuffs, just the majoroty of the palyers bases are hating it because pve is mixed with pvp. worst idea every made in Elder Scrolls History. If you ask me why, well looka round on teh forum and in agme, no one loves that basicly, to having ganked by doing a pve related quest sires in a pvp zone and tehy are right.

The forum in no way reflects the views nor demographics of the player base. People are more apt to complain in forums than give praise. I know plenty of people who enjoy the mix of PvE and PvP. Some even want PvP available in every zone.

Agree 100%. I have always loved Aion's Abyss, with the mixture of PvE and PvP. It's the whole reason why I started playing PvP in the first place. Imperial City was meant to offer small scale PvP while fighting over farmable resources. That's the way it was designed and that shouldn't change. There are plenty of improvements that need to happen but that's not one of them.

In fact, that's why I love Cyrodill. When I'm done with zerging I go into delves or do some repeatable quests to go at it on my own. This is the only why some open world 1v1 PvP actually happens.

daniel.13b16_ESO · May 2018

Apart from finally rolling it into the base game where it belongs, IC needs 4 easy fixes that can be done right away.

1) Either seperate if from Cyrodill with its own queue and population cap or incorporate it into the Alliance War fully. Either is fine, however, IC really is the ugly *** child when it comes to Cyrodill and has no point in the Alliance War while still being connected to it via population cap. Cut the cord or welcome it to the family.

2) No matter the outcome of 1) it needs to be connected to the keep network so that if all the keeps in a line are owned, you can travel there instantly. Just connect it to the nearest keep. Additionally you need to be able to port there from your home base in Cyrodill at any time. It is such a hassle to get there. First you have a loading screen to get to Cyrodill, another one to teleport to the nearest keep and one more to get to the sewers. Annoying, which brings me to 3).

3) Reduce loading screens. Even once in the sewers it's, what, 6 six more loading screens until you have finally accepted all daily quests? Place all daily quest givers right next to the corresponding ladder down in the sewers' main base. Many people don't even know there are daily quests and it's annoying getting them. I also believe it's ridiculous that the districts are seperated by loading screens. The areas are very small as it is, so why add additional restrictions? Just open those damn doors.

4) Tel Var stones need to have more purpose. People run trials for loot, IC has no leaderboard (not that it needs one), limited purpose for Tel Var stones and the bosses drop way to little gold. IMO they should offer a token system where you can get other things for a specific amount of tel Var stones (AP, gold, transmutation crystals ...).

IC is a farming ground but there is nothing really worthwhile to farm. It is a PvP area with no purpose to it, no winner or loser because it doesn't have it's own leaderboard and it has no effect on Cyrodill's Alliance War. It was meant to combine PvPvE but it fails to entice both playerbases. I am not sure why they invest so little in IC. People complaining about Zergs in Cyrodill but dislike Battlegrounds should feel right at home here. It's also the perfect place to introduce PvE players to PvP.

The sewers obviously need a rework too. The bosses offer no real rewards and there is just no reason to be down there.

Talcyndl · May 2018

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

IC is not a PVP zone so stop carrying on like you own it. It's a stupid hybrid zone that's all about encouraging people whose only joy in life comes from making other people miserable to plague the rest of us who want nothing to do with them. IC is two different games mashed into one, it doesn't work which is why hardly anyone goes there.

I can kill and be killed. Thus, under the rules of this game, it is a PvP zone. Same as Cyrodiil (which also has NPC quests).

And I'm not the one "carrying on" about it. I play the game. It is the PvE whiners who send rage tells and post on the forum about mean people who kill them.

Oh, and as far as "no one" going there, that is simply not true for NA/PC. It is probably the best place in the game for small scale fights. You might have to look around the districts, but I always find people pretty easily.

Talcyndl · May 2018

Marginis wrote: »

ESO has PVEers AND PVPers - the game should work for both.

Agreed. But I don't think there is a workable solution to mix them into the same zones - unless PvE folks accept that they will need to fight other players in the process. And too many of them refuse to accept that.

TheRealPotoroo · May 2018

Talcyndl wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

IC is not a PVP zone so stop carrying on like you own it. It's a stupid hybrid zone that's all about encouraging people whose only joy in life comes from making other people miserable to plague the rest of us who want nothing to do with them. IC is two different games mashed into one, it doesn't work which is why hardly anyone goes there.

I can kill and be killed. Thus, under the rules of this game, it is a PvP zone. Same as Cyrodiil (which also has NPC quests).

And I'm not the one "carrying on" about it. I play the game. It is the PvE whiners who send rage tells and post on the forum about mean people who kill them.

Oh, and as far as "no one" going there, that is simply not true for NA/PC. It is probably the best place in the game for small scale fights. You might have to look around the districts, but I always find people pretty easily.

Horse faeces. That you can kill players who want nothing to do with your game simply says, well, something about your personal (RL) character that I'd probably be banned for saying explicitly. I want to play my game, the one I enjoy. I doesn't have you or your ilk in it.

Talcyndl · May 2018

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Horse faeces. That you can kill players who want nothing to do with your game simply says, well, something about your personal (RL) character that I'd probably be banned for saying explicitly. I want to play my game, the one I enjoy. I doesn't have you or your ilk in it.

They came into the PvP zone. :shrug:

You are free to enjoy "your game" in ALL the other zones. Seems fair.

But thanks for making my point.

barshemm · May 2018

I wish I wasn't forced to pve to get undaunted mettle. They should have a pvp focused undaunted something or other that involves combat in IC. That would be sweet.

TheRealPotoroo · May 2018

Talcyndl wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Horse faeces. That you can kill players who want nothing to do with your game simply says, well, something about your personal (RL) character that I'd probably be banned for saying explicitly. I want to play my game, the one I enjoy. I doesn't have you or your ilk in it.

They came into the PvP zone. :shrug:

You are free to enjoy "your game" in ALL the other zones. Seems fair.

But thanks for making my point.

Your only point is that you enjoy making other people miserable.

Sevn · May 2018

Talcyndl wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Horse faeces. That you can kill players who want nothing to do with your game simply says, well, something about your personal (RL) character that I'd probably be banned for saying explicitly. I want to play my game, the one I enjoy. I doesn't have you or your ilk in it.

They came into the PvP zone. :shrug:

You are free to enjoy "your game" in ALL the other zones. Seems fair.

But thanks for making my point.

What's funny is it seems like you're the type that only goes after easy targets but complain about npc's being too easy. You're not looking for a challenge in pvp at all. Why even call yourself a pvper.

Integral1900 · May 2018

I would happily pay extra for a pve only instance of imperial city... but this ludicrous hybrid was always doomed to fail...

Sevn · May 2018

I love pvping but it's not pvping when I'm fighting a npc boss and some tryhard waits until I'm low on health or just as bad stuck picking a chest before engaging. Wouldn't be so bad if the npc's also engaged with the other player, but they don't so you end up fighting both. Not fun.

Come at me straight up broham. What, you're afraid you might lose? Damn right you're gonna lose.

Prabooo · May 2018

yeah like why should people PvP in a PvP zone? Those degenerates...

Zeromaz · May 2018

With the Summerset launch, all they would need to do is give jewelry an increased chance to drop. Voala.... instant revival for those who choose to speed up their jewelrycrafting deconstruction

Talcyndl · May 2018

Sevn wrote: »

What's funny is it seems like you're the type that only goes after easy targets but complain about npc's being too easy. You're not looking for a challenge in pvp at all. Why even call yourself a pvper.

I literally will attack ANYONE at ANYTIME in Cyrodiil or IC. I will attack 3 guys taking a resource as its flipping. I will run into the middle of a 24 man raid group with the hope that maybe I can kill one before I get exploded. I die ALL THE TIME.

I simply want to PvP. And yet, some PvE whiners want to change the only PvP zones in the game to prevent that. Or at least to complain about how the PvP'ers are the *** for wanting to PvP. Doesn't make much sense to me.

Talcyndl · May 2018

Prabooo wrote: »

yeah like why should people PvP in a PvP zone? Those degenerates...

I'm convinced. I would like to formally apologize to any PvE player who I have killed in Cyrodiil or IC. I now recognize that you just wanted to [insert whatever PvE thing you were doing] and to be left alone.

TheValar85 · May 2018

kargen27 wrote: »

TheValar85 wrote: »

honestly Ic hase a lot of good ponetntial stuffs, just the majoroty of the palyers bases are hating it because pve is mixed with pvp. worst idea every made in Elder Scrolls History. If you ask me why, well looka round on teh forum and in agme, no one loves that basicly, to having ganked by doing a pve related quest sires in a pvp zone and tehy are right.

The forum in no way reflects the views nor demographics of the player base. People are more apt to complain in forums than give praise. I know plenty of people who enjoy the mix of PvE and PvP. Some even want PvP available in every zone.

cool they can do that in WoW they have PVP realms ESO dosent have Realms. so it is not going to happen.

TheValar85 · May 2018

Talcyndl wrote: »

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

So yes, I call those people cancerous degenerates, because that's what they are.

How dare they PvP in a PvP zone. Don't they know you are special and deserve to be left alone. From now on, you should wear the wedding dress costume - that should make it clear to everyone.

That trick is dosent works XD i have tried it

TheValar85 · May 2018

Oh i am so enjoying to read the poor pvp players complaining about how litle space they have in this game you guys are so transparent

You act like you were never even touched PVE while you all clearly leveled your mages guild OUT OF PVP zones to get your storm calling ulti... you also had to go out to the PVE world to get your vamp or werewolf bites, and also none of you actualy leveled their proffessions in cyrodiil

And none of you did their research in cyrodiil. You guys are so contradictory... stop act like you haven't tocuhed PVE at all, because withouth that you all will be nowhere with your gears, and skills, and so on. because Cyrodiil cant provide everything you need to a potent oponent in the battleflied.

So stop lieing and stop acting like you are all suprime and havent thouched pve at all cos thats clear bs. And this elitism is not going to lead anywhere. so stop act like that.

meh...

fred4 · May 2018

TheValar85 wrote: »

Oh i am so enjoying to read the poor pvp players complaining about how litle space they have in this game you guys are so transparent You act like you were never even touched PVE while you all clearly leveled your mages guild OUT OF PVP zones to get your storm calling ulti... you also had to go out to the PVE world to get your vamp or werewolf bites, and also none of you actualy leveled their proffessions in cyrodiil And none of you did their research in cyrodiil. You guys are so contradictory... stop act like you haven't tocuhed PVE at all, because withouth that you all will be nowhere with your gears, and skills, and so on. because Cyrodiil cant provide everything you need to a potent oponent in the battleflied.

What kind of an argument is that? I joined the summer before Orsinium and, although I came from Skyrim, which I loved, I pretty much tired of ESO's PvE by the time Orsinium came out. If I could fully level additional characters in PvP, I would gladly do so.