PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Warden Balance

Mihael · May 2018

Hmm they will probably finish picking representatives by next patch and then for the patch after that they will be taking feed back so sometime around q4 this year or q1 next year we might get some changes lmfao

Vaoh · May 2018

stileanima wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I would like to see this higher than Sorc parse?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs1YV7eK8Qk

As for PvP, Wardens are still absolutely fine, they have so much group utility there I have no idea why you think they wouldn't be viable.

A few problems with that parse:

1. It's using Balance for a DPS boost (you can't use this skill in dungeons/trials, it's just a dummy cheese skill).
2. It uses the bear, which doesn't provide AOE damage and downright needs to be unslotted in some boss fights, shaving off 15-20% of your DPS.
3. The bear's DPS is significantly reduced in fights where it constantly dies (it's obviously not going to die in a target dummy test).

Lol, as the "dummy cheeser" in this video I would like to offer my two cents.

1. You CAN use Balance in dungeons and trials. I have and will continue to do so in ALL dungeons and trials, including Cloudrest, with much success! Perhaps you wouldn't in PUGs, but in coordinated teams, using Balance isn't an issue as you will have HOTs on you most of the time, which makes the fact that the skill eats a bit of your health irrelevant as you will get healed up to full after use.
2. I will use Eternal Guardian in all boss fights where possible, again, with much success! I wish the Bear were a bit sturdier though and lived against attacks like World Shaper, and didn't attract deadly mechanics such as Chain Lightning and Storm the Heavens. I really and truly hope ZOS will address and change this to make the Warden's staple PvE ultimate 100% usable in all PvE encounters.
2a. You are right, Eternal Guardian is a single target ultimate, which is what makes it my go-to in all boss fights (where it doesn't die or kill others ). For trash fights, I un-slot it and use Elemental Rage instead. This combined with Deep Fissure is incredibly potent. Deep Fissure in general is really strong in PvE, in AOE encounters.
3. It doesn't die in as many fights as you think.

Please note that the above comes from a PvE mindset, and that I do understand what others are saying when it comes to Magicka Wardens in PvE. Concerning PvE: From what I have seen, Mag Wardens are on par with Mag Sorcs and Mag DKs, and are well ahead of Mag Templars, in terms of damage output, with only Mag Nightblades parsing higher in the Summerset PTS.

See, that kind of annoys me. You understand that it’s necessary to swap between Eternal Guardian and Northern Storm/Ele Rage quite a bit. On PC there are add-ons to instaswap for you... but on console I have to stop after an add pull to do this. It’s ridiculous to constantly do and shouldn’t be necessary at all.

The issue is that due to the many disadvantages of using Eternal Guardian (attracts mechanics, dies, no more Ele Rage AoE burst, etc), Mag Wardens should parse probably a tiny bit higher than any other mag class single target, since they lose so much AoE, risk their bear dying, and have no notable inherent class-based Group buff. However, a class like Mag NB can parse higher even while maintaining Major Expedition (awesome in mobile fights), Minor Beserk, offheals with Funnel Health, and normal Ults along with amazing sustain.... though I would not say Mag Warden struggles with sustain either.

And then if you take Eternal Guardian off in a single target fight?? Rip your DPS.....

Oh, and with Elemental Weapon becoming a thing, it looks like we’ll still have to slot Force Pulse/Crushing Shock in order to access Destruction Staff passives on the front bar

MLGProPlayer · May 2018

Vaoh wrote: »

stileanima wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I would like to see this higher than Sorc parse?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs1YV7eK8Qk

As for PvP, Wardens are still absolutely fine, they have so much group utility there I have no idea why you think they wouldn't be viable.

A few problems with that parse:

1. It's using Balance for a DPS boost (you can't use this skill in dungeons/trials, it's just a dummy cheese skill).
2. It uses the bear, which doesn't provide AOE damage and downright needs to be unslotted in some boss fights, shaving off 15-20% of your DPS.
3. The bear's DPS is significantly reduced in fights where it constantly dies (it's obviously not going to die in a target dummy test).

Lol, as the "dummy cheeser" in this video I would like to offer my two cents.

1. You CAN use Balance in dungeons and trials. I have and will continue to do so in ALL dungeons and trials, including Cloudrest, with much success! Perhaps you wouldn't in PUGs, but in coordinated teams, using Balance isn't an issue as you will have HOTs on you most of the time, which makes the fact that the skill eats a bit of your health irrelevant as you will get healed up to full after use.
2. I will use Eternal Guardian in all boss fights where possible, again, with much success! I wish the Bear were a bit sturdier though and lived against attacks like World Shaper, and didn't attract deadly mechanics such as Chain Lightning and Storm the Heavens. I really and truly hope ZOS will address and change this to make the Warden's staple PvE ultimate 100% usable in all PvE encounters.
2a. You are right, Eternal Guardian is a single target ultimate, which is what makes it my go-to in all boss fights (where it doesn't die or kill others ). For trash fights, I un-slot it and use Elemental Rage instead. This combined with Deep Fissure is incredibly potent. Deep Fissure in general is really strong in PvE, in AOE encounters.
3. It doesn't die in as many fights as you think.

Please note that the above comes from a PvE mindset, and that I do understand what others are saying when it comes to Magicka Wardens in PvE. Concerning PvE: From what I have seen, Mag Wardens are on par with Mag Sorcs and Mag DKs, and are well ahead of Mag Templars, in terms of damage output, with only Mag Nightblades parsing higher in the Summerset PTS.

See, that kind of annoys me. You understand that it’s necessary to swap between Eternal Guardian and Northern Storm/Ele Rage quite a bit. On PC there are add-ons to instaswap for you... but on console I have to stop after an add pull to do this. It’s ridiculous to constantly do and shouldn’t be necessary at all.

The issue is that due to the many disadvantages of using Eternal Guardian (attracts mechanics, dies, no more Ele Rage AoE burst, etc), Mag Wardens should parse probably a tiny bit higher than any other mag class single target, since they lose so much AoE, risk their bear dying, and have no notable inherent class-based Group buff. However, a class like Mag NB can parse higher even while maintaining Major Expedition (awesome in mobile fights), Minor Beserk, offheals with Funnel Health, and normal Ults along with amazing sustain.... though I would not say Mag Warden struggles with sustain either.

And then if you take Eternal Guardian off in a single target fight?? Rip your DPS.....

Oh, and with Elemental Weapon becoming a thing, it looks like we’ll still have to slot Force Pulse/Crushing Shock in order to access Destruction Staff passives on the front bar

I'm just going to dump shalks and replace it with ele drain (or whatever random ability you want). It's ridiculous that we are the only class that needs to slot a destro staff ability on both bars (no other class needs to worry about this as they have destro ult).

_Ahala_ · May 2018

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Well i guess we now have to slot the Psijic skill Time Stop to get an on demand stun.

Unfortunately since zos increased the cast time to 2s on borrowed time I don’t think that will work... I wonder if its even possible to force an ice comet to hit unblocked anymore with this version

LeHarrt91 · May 2018

_Ahala_ wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Well i guess we now have to slot the Psijic skill Time Stop to get an on demand stun.

Unfortunately since zos increased the cast time to 2s on borrowed time I don’t think that will work... I wonder if its even possible to force an ice comet to hit unblocked anymore with this version

Well RIP that idea

though, deep fissure was a 3s delay.

MLGProPlayer · May 2018

Mihael wrote: »

Hmm they will probably finish picking representatives by next patch and then for the patch after that they will be taking feed back so sometime around q4 this year or q1 next year we might get some changes lmfao

Slow down. ZOS doesn't work that quickly.

Apparently they didn't have time to work on classes during this patch because they had to balance a single skill line. I'm starting to think Wrobel is the only employee they have dedicated to class design/balance.

Vaoh · May 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

stileanima wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I would like to see this higher than Sorc parse?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs1YV7eK8Qk

As for PvP, Wardens are still absolutely fine, they have so much group utility there I have no idea why you think they wouldn't be viable.

A few problems with that parse:

1. It's using Balance for a DPS boost (you can't use this skill in dungeons/trials, it's just a dummy cheese skill).
2. It uses the bear, which doesn't provide AOE damage and downright needs to be unslotted in some boss fights, shaving off 15-20% of your DPS.
3. The bear's DPS is significantly reduced in fights where it constantly dies (it's obviously not going to die in a target dummy test).

Lol, as the "dummy cheeser" in this video I would like to offer my two cents.

1. You CAN use Balance in dungeons and trials. I have and will continue to do so in ALL dungeons and trials, including Cloudrest, with much success! Perhaps you wouldn't in PUGs, but in coordinated teams, using Balance isn't an issue as you will have HOTs on you most of the time, which makes the fact that the skill eats a bit of your health irrelevant as you will get healed up to full after use.
2. I will use Eternal Guardian in all boss fights where possible, again, with much success! I wish the Bear were a bit sturdier though and lived against attacks like World Shaper, and didn't attract deadly mechanics such as Chain Lightning and Storm the Heavens. I really and truly hope ZOS will address and change this to make the Warden's staple PvE ultimate 100% usable in all PvE encounters.
2a. You are right, Eternal Guardian is a single target ultimate, which is what makes it my go-to in all boss fights (where it doesn't die or kill others ). For trash fights, I un-slot it and use Elemental Rage instead. This combined with Deep Fissure is incredibly potent. Deep Fissure in general is really strong in PvE, in AOE encounters.
3. It doesn't die in as many fights as you think.

Please note that the above comes from a PvE mindset, and that I do understand what others are saying when it comes to Magicka Wardens in PvE. Concerning PvE: From what I have seen, Mag Wardens are on par with Mag Sorcs and Mag DKs, and are well ahead of Mag Templars, in terms of damage output, with only Mag Nightblades parsing higher in the Summerset PTS.

See, that kind of annoys me. You understand that it’s necessary to swap between Eternal Guardian and Northern Storm/Ele Rage quite a bit. On PC there are add-ons to instaswap for you... but on console I have to stop after an add pull to do this. It’s ridiculous to constantly do and shouldn’t be necessary at all.

The issue is that due to the many disadvantages of using Eternal Guardian (attracts mechanics, dies, no more Ele Rage AoE burst, etc), Mag Wardens should parse probably a tiny bit higher than any other mag class single target, since they lose so much AoE, risk their bear dying, and have no notable inherent class-based Group buff. However, a class like Mag NB can parse higher even while maintaining Major Expedition (awesome in mobile fights), Minor Beserk, offheals with Funnel Health, and normal Ults along with amazing sustain.... though I would not say Mag Warden struggles with sustain either.

And then if you take Eternal Guardian off in a single target fight?? Rip your DPS.....

Oh, and with Elemental Weapon becoming a thing, it looks like we’ll still have to slot Force Pulse/Crushing Shock in order to access Destruction Staff passives on the front bar

I'm just going to dump shalks and replace it with ele drain (or whatever random ability you want). It's ridiculous that we are the only class that needs to slot a destro staff ability on both bars (not other class needs to worry about this as they have destro ult).

The only positive thing about it is that I currently use Force Pulse for a spammables, but switch to Crushing Shock when playing an interrupter in vAS HM. Since Elemental Weapon will become my new damage-dealing spammable, I can keep Force Shock morphed to Crushing Shock

_Ahala_ · May 2018

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

_Ahala_ wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Well i guess we now have to slot the Psijic skill Time Stop to get an on demand stun.

Unfortunately since zos increased the cast time to 2s on borrowed time I don’t think that will work... I wonder if its even possible to force an ice comet to hit unblocked anymore with this version

Well RIP that idea

though, deep fissure was a 3s delay.

Yeah was thinking I could fissure, meteor, borrow time if I had cc immunity and was using an ice blockade build to help bt land... but I honestly don’t know anymore... need to test if that .5 s cast nerf breaks that tactic

MLGProPlayer · May 2018

Vaoh wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

stileanima wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I would like to see this higher than Sorc parse?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs1YV7eK8Qk

As for PvP, Wardens are still absolutely fine, they have so much group utility there I have no idea why you think they wouldn't be viable.

A few problems with that parse:

1. It's using Balance for a DPS boost (you can't use this skill in dungeons/trials, it's just a dummy cheese skill).
2. It uses the bear, which doesn't provide AOE damage and downright needs to be unslotted in some boss fights, shaving off 15-20% of your DPS.
3. The bear's DPS is significantly reduced in fights where it constantly dies (it's obviously not going to die in a target dummy test).

Lol, as the "dummy cheeser" in this video I would like to offer my two cents.

1. You CAN use Balance in dungeons and trials. I have and will continue to do so in ALL dungeons and trials, including Cloudrest, with much success! Perhaps you wouldn't in PUGs, but in coordinated teams, using Balance isn't an issue as you will have HOTs on you most of the time, which makes the fact that the skill eats a bit of your health irrelevant as you will get healed up to full after use.
2. I will use Eternal Guardian in all boss fights where possible, again, with much success! I wish the Bear were a bit sturdier though and lived against attacks like World Shaper, and didn't attract deadly mechanics such as Chain Lightning and Storm the Heavens. I really and truly hope ZOS will address and change this to make the Warden's staple PvE ultimate 100% usable in all PvE encounters.
2a. You are right, Eternal Guardian is a single target ultimate, which is what makes it my go-to in all boss fights (where it doesn't die or kill others ). For trash fights, I un-slot it and use Elemental Rage instead. This combined with Deep Fissure is incredibly potent. Deep Fissure in general is really strong in PvE, in AOE encounters.
3. It doesn't die in as many fights as you think.

Please note that the above comes from a PvE mindset, and that I do understand what others are saying when it comes to Magicka Wardens in PvE. Concerning PvE: From what I have seen, Mag Wardens are on par with Mag Sorcs and Mag DKs, and are well ahead of Mag Templars, in terms of damage output, with only Mag Nightblades parsing higher in the Summerset PTS.

See, that kind of annoys me. You understand that it’s necessary to swap between Eternal Guardian and Northern Storm/Ele Rage quite a bit. On PC there are add-ons to instaswap for you... but on console I have to stop after an add pull to do this. It’s ridiculous to constantly do and shouldn’t be necessary at all.

The issue is that due to the many disadvantages of using Eternal Guardian (attracts mechanics, dies, no more Ele Rage AoE burst, etc), Mag Wardens should parse probably a tiny bit higher than any other mag class single target, since they lose so much AoE, risk their bear dying, and have no notable inherent class-based Group buff. However, a class like Mag NB can parse higher even while maintaining Major Expedition (awesome in mobile fights), Minor Beserk, offheals with Funnel Health, and normal Ults along with amazing sustain.... though I would not say Mag Warden struggles with sustain either.

And then if you take Eternal Guardian off in a single target fight?? Rip your DPS.....

Oh, and with Elemental Weapon becoming a thing, it looks like we’ll still have to slot Force Pulse/Crushing Shock in order to access Destruction Staff passives on the front bar

I'm just going to dump shalks and replace it with ele drain (or whatever random ability you want). It's ridiculous that we are the only class that needs to slot a destro staff ability on both bars (not other class needs to worry about this as they have destro ult).

The only positive thing about it is that I currently use Force Pulse for a spammables, but switch to Crushing Shock when playing an interrupter in vAS HM. Since Elemental Weapon will become my new damage-dealing spammable, I can keep Force Shock morphed to Crushing Shock

That's smart (I completely forgot what the other morph does). Makes sense for everyone to do that then.

Vaoh · May 2018

Oh yeah..... I reported as soon as Morrowind launched that if you use Heavy Attack with any Staff, and follow the rotation of:
Heavy Attack -> Deep Fissure -> Heavy Attack -> Deep Fissure -> repeat
Deep Fissure’s animation will appear, but the damage will fail to fire. Your cast of the next Deep Fissure will cancel the previous one. In order to avoid this you have to hold off like 0.1-0.3sec before casting the next Deep Fissure to keep the damage.

Solution: Reduce delay of Scorch damage by about 0.1-0.3sec.

ZOS will ignore ofc but had to try at least

Nifty2g · May 2018

You guys need to chill, Warden is doing fine in PvE and if you want to play one, then go and play it. It does decent damage and it is out parsing sorcs for the most part as someone mention. And someone mentioned you take sorcs for the group utility, well that is obvious, but you only need 1 sorc

As for needing an AoE ultimate, you guys know that on pretty much every boss now you have 3 and sometimes 4 nightblades that just use Soul Harvest throughout the whole fight?

As for this argument about using balance, I don't see what the issue is, it gives you resistances, it gives you magicka, you just have to use it and be smart about using it if you happen to die with balance it is because of yourself.

And a couple videos of Wardens;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0__egIvd8T0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhxDIeVzpVo

https://prnt.sc/ix8yz5
https://prnt.sc/j1uily

Some people just like to scream that something is bad because of the popular crowd response, but really it's perfectly fine, most people just don't like how clunky some of the animations are for the class. Not every group needs a Warden in it. Wardens will make pretty good healers next patch though

MLGProPlayer · May 2018

Nifty2g wrote: »

You guys need to chill, Warden is doing fine in PvE and if you want to play one, then go and play it. It does decent damage and it is out parsing sorcs for the most part as someone mention. And someone mentioned you take sorcs for the group utility, well that is obvious, but you only need 1 sorc

As for needing an AoE ultimate, you guys know that on pretty much every boss now you have 3 and sometimes 4 nightblades that just use Soul Harvest throughout the whole fight?

As for this argument about using balance, I don't see what the issue is, it gives you resistances, it gives you magicka, you just have to use it and be smart about using it if you happen to die with balance it is because of yourself.

And a couple videos of Wardens;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0__egIvd8T0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhxDIeVzpVo

https://prnt.sc/ix8yz5
https://prnt.sc/j1uily

Some people just like to scream that something is bad because of the popular crowd response, but really it's perfectly fine, most people just don't like how clunky some of the animations are for the class. Not every group needs a Warden in it. Wardens will make pretty good healers next patch though

What's the point of bringing a class that needs to use Balance to achieve competitive DPS, when you can bring another class that doesn't need it?

And NBs that use Soul Harvest achieve MUCH higher DPS than wardens that use bear. That's what a single target ultimate should give you: superior DPS. Warden bear only gives you comparable DPS to other classes, not superior. You're giving up AOE for no benefit.

There is a reason why only 2% of players on leader boards use warden.

LeHarrt91 · May 2018

Yes Magicka Nightblades use Soul Harvest to proc Master Achitect but they have the option to use the Destro Ult if needed, the warden cannot. Wardens have to double bar the bear ulti to be comparable, yes the bear is the class execute and it does proc MA but wardens lose the utility of an AoE Ultimate. Which is my main concern for the class.

Joxer61 · May 2018

"What's the point of bringing a class that needs to use Balance to achieve competitive DPS, when you can bring another class that doesn't need it?"

Here a thought...how about the simple reason of people playing what they want?
Exact same reason I left GW2....the "meta" telling you what you can and cant play. Sad to see that its here as well.....damn MMO disease it is.

"And NBs that use Soul Harvest achieve MUCH higher DPS than wardens that use bear. That's what a single target ultimate should give you: superior DPS. Warden bear only gives you comparable DPS to other classes, not superior. You're giving up AOE for no benefit."

The you play your NB...and let others play Warden if they wish. Why does it have to your way or the highway?

Nifty2g · May 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

You guys need to chill, Warden is doing fine in PvE and if you want to play one, then go and play it. It does decent damage and it is out parsing sorcs for the most part as someone mention. And someone mentioned you take sorcs for the group utility, well that is obvious, but you only need 1 sorc

As for needing an AoE ultimate, you guys know that on pretty much every boss now you have 3 and sometimes 4 nightblades that just use Soul Harvest throughout the whole fight?

As for this argument about using balance, I don't see what the issue is, it gives you resistances, it gives you magicka, you just have to use it and be smart about using it if you happen to die with balance it is because of yourself.

And a couple videos of Wardens;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0__egIvd8T0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhxDIeVzpVo

https://prnt.sc/ix8yz5
https://prnt.sc/j1uily

Some people just like to scream that something is bad because of the popular crowd response, but really it's perfectly fine, most people just don't like how clunky some of the animations are for the class. Not every group needs a Warden in it. Wardens will make pretty good healers next patch though

What's the point of bringing a class that needs to use Balance to achieve competitive DPS, when you can bring another class that doesn't need it?

And NBs that use Soul Harvest achieve MUCH higher DPS than wardens that use bear. That's what a single target ultimate should give you: superior DPS. Warden bear only gives you comparable DPS to other classes, not superior. You're giving up AOE for no benefit.

There is a reason why only 2% of players on leader boards use warden.

What's the point of bringing a class that needs to use Balance to achieve competitive DPS, when you can bring another class that doesn't need it?

What does it matter, I don't see why this matters at all. There is no downside to it and it gives your armor buffs + sustain.

And NBs that use Soul Harvest achieve MUCH higher DPS than wardens that use bear. That's what a single target ultimate should give you: superior DPS. Warden bear only gives you comparable DPS to other classes, not superior. You're giving up AOE for no benefit.

Wardens are doing more damage than a sorcerer is, you missed that part when people have been saying it. So yes Wardens bear is giving you more superior dps when compared to Sorcerer. You can not fill up raids with 8 Nightblades lol. You do not need to use AoE ultimate's anymore except for trash packs anyway. High Single Target damage has been a thing for quite some time now.

Take a second to look at this screenshot and look how much damage the bear does, not just the top one either

https://prnt.sc/ix8yz5

MLGProPlayer · May 2018

Joxer61 wrote: »

"What's the point of bringing a class that needs to use Balance to achieve competitive DPS, when you can bring another class that doesn't need it?"

Here a thought...how about the simple reason of people playing what they want?
Exact same reason I left GW2....the "meta" telling you what you can and cant play. Sad to see that its here as well.....damn MMO disease it is.

"And NBs that use Soul Harvest achieve MUCH higher DPS than wardens that use bear. That's what a single target ultimate should give you: superior DPS. Warden bear only gives you comparable DPS to other classes, not superior. You're giving up AOE for no benefit."

The you play your NB...and let others play Warden if they wish. Why does it have to your way or the highway?

I want warden to be viable. Not sure why want it to be mediocre. By buffing wardens, they become more enjoyable for everyone.

MLGProPlayer · May 2018

Nifty2g wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

You guys need to chill, Warden is doing fine in PvE and if you want to play one, then go and play it. It does decent damage and it is out parsing sorcs for the most part as someone mention. And someone mentioned you take sorcs for the group utility, well that is obvious, but you only need 1 sorc

As for needing an AoE ultimate, you guys know that on pretty much every boss now you have 3 and sometimes 4 nightblades that just use Soul Harvest throughout the whole fight?

As for this argument about using balance, I don't see what the issue is, it gives you resistances, it gives you magicka, you just have to use it and be smart about using it if you happen to die with balance it is because of yourself.

And a couple videos of Wardens;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0__egIvd8T0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhxDIeVzpVo

https://prnt.sc/ix8yz5
https://prnt.sc/j1uily

Some people just like to scream that something is bad because of the popular crowd response, but really it's perfectly fine, most people just don't like how clunky some of the animations are for the class. Not every group needs a Warden in it. Wardens will make pretty good healers next patch though

What's the point of bringing a class that needs to use Balance to achieve competitive DPS, when you can bring another class that doesn't need it?

And NBs that use Soul Harvest achieve MUCH higher DPS than wardens that use bear. That's what a single target ultimate should give you: superior DPS. Warden bear only gives you comparable DPS to other classes, not superior. You're giving up AOE for no benefit.

There is a reason why only 2% of players on leader boards use warden.

What's the point of bringing a class that needs to use Balance to achieve competitive DPS, when you can bring another class that doesn't need it?

What does it matter, I don't see why this matters at all. There is no downside to it and it gives your armor buffs + sustain.

And NBs that use Soul Harvest achieve MUCH higher DPS than wardens that use bear. That's what a single target ultimate should give you: superior DPS. Warden bear only gives you comparable DPS to other classes, not superior. You're giving up AOE for no benefit.

Wardens are doing more damage than a sorcerer is, you missed that part when people have been saying it. So yes Wardens bear is giving you more superior dps when compared to Sorcerer. You can not fill up raids with 8 Nightblades lol. You do not need to use AoE ultimate's anymore except for trash packs anyway. High Single Target damage has been a thing for quite some time now.

Balance is a very risky ability. Other classes can achieve the same DPS without the risk.

And where are the sorc parses to compare with? I'm seeing a lot of folks claiming wardens are outparsing them this patch, despite receiving no buffs. I haven't followed sorc patch notes, did they get nerfed?

Nifty2g · May 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

You guys need to chill, Warden is doing fine in PvE and if you want to play one, then go and play it. It does decent damage and it is out parsing sorcs for the most part as someone mention. And someone mentioned you take sorcs for the group utility, well that is obvious, but you only need 1 sorc

As for needing an AoE ultimate, you guys know that on pretty much every boss now you have 3 and sometimes 4 nightblades that just use Soul Harvest throughout the whole fight?

As for this argument about using balance, I don't see what the issue is, it gives you resistances, it gives you magicka, you just have to use it and be smart about using it if you happen to die with balance it is because of yourself.

And a couple videos of Wardens;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0__egIvd8T0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhxDIeVzpVo

https://prnt.sc/ix8yz5
https://prnt.sc/j1uily

Some people just like to scream that something is bad because of the popular crowd response, but really it's perfectly fine, most people just don't like how clunky some of the animations are for the class. Not every group needs a Warden in it. Wardens will make pretty good healers next patch though

What's the point of bringing a class that needs to use Balance to achieve competitive DPS, when you can bring another class that doesn't need it?

And NBs that use Soul Harvest achieve MUCH higher DPS than wardens that use bear. That's what a single target ultimate should give you: superior DPS. Warden bear only gives you comparable DPS to other classes, not superior. You're giving up AOE for no benefit.

There is a reason why only 2% of players on leader boards use warden.

What's the point of bringing a class that needs to use Balance to achieve competitive DPS, when you can bring another class that doesn't need it?

What does it matter, I don't see why this matters at all. There is no downside to it and it gives your armor buffs + sustain.

And NBs that use Soul Harvest achieve MUCH higher DPS than wardens that use bear. That's what a single target ultimate should give you: superior DPS. Warden bear only gives you comparable DPS to other classes, not superior. You're giving up AOE for no benefit.

Wardens are doing more damage than a sorcerer is, you missed that part when people have been saying it. So yes Wardens bear is giving you more superior dps when compared to Sorcerer. You can not fill up raids with 8 Nightblades lol. You do not need to use AoE ultimate's anymore except for trash packs anyway. High Single Target damage has been a thing for quite some time now.

Balance is a very risky ability. Other classes can achieve the same DPS without the risk.

And where are the sorc parses to compare with? I'm seeing a lot of folks claiming wardens are outparsing them this patch, despite receiving no buffs. I haven't followed sorc patch notes, did they get nerfed?

No they didn't get nerfed, Warden is just able to get higher single target than them, people just don't really play Wardens, like I said most dont like the clunky skill animations.

Balance is not risky if you are looking where you are standing and watching mechanics. There is a time in every single fight where nothing happens because of cooldowns, you can use Balance just fine. The only risk is casting it while you are kiting meteors on Rakkhat or something like that. I don't know why you think there is such a huge risk at all times when using the skill. Check out the Rakkhat video I posted of the Warden, there was never a risk

Vaoh · May 2018

Nifty2g wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

You guys need to chill, Warden is doing fine in PvE and if you want to play one, then go and play it. It does decent damage and it is out parsing sorcs for the most part as someone mention. And someone mentioned you take sorcs for the group utility, well that is obvious, but you only need 1 sorc

As for needing an AoE ultimate, you guys know that on pretty much every boss now you have 3 and sometimes 4 nightblades that just use Soul Harvest throughout the whole fight?

As for this argument about using balance, I don't see what the issue is, it gives you resistances, it gives you magicka, you just have to use it and be smart about using it if you happen to die with balance it is because of yourself.

And a couple videos of Wardens;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0__egIvd8T0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhxDIeVzpVo

https://prnt.sc/ix8yz5
https://prnt.sc/j1uily

Some people just like to scream that something is bad because of the popular crowd response, but really it's perfectly fine, most people just don't like how clunky some of the animations are for the class. Not every group needs a Warden in it. Wardens will make pretty good healers next patch though

What's the point of bringing a class that needs to use Balance to achieve competitive DPS, when you can bring another class that doesn't need it?

And NBs that use Soul Harvest achieve MUCH higher DPS than wardens that use bear. That's what a single target ultimate should give you: superior DPS. Warden bear only gives you comparable DPS to other classes, not superior. You're giving up AOE for no benefit.

There is a reason why only 2% of players on leader boards use warden.

What's the point of bringing a class that needs to use Balance to achieve competitive DPS, when you can bring another class that doesn't need it?

What does it matter, I don't see why this matters at all. There is no downside to it and it gives your armor buffs + sustain.

And NBs that use Soul Harvest achieve MUCH higher DPS than wardens that use bear. That's what a single target ultimate should give you: superior DPS. Warden bear only gives you comparable DPS to other classes, not superior. You're giving up AOE for no benefit.

Wardens are doing more damage than a sorcerer is, you missed that part when people have been saying it. So yes Wardens bear is giving you more superior dps when compared to Sorcerer. You can not fill up raids with 8 Nightblades lol. You do not need to use AoE ultimate's anymore except for trash packs anyway. High Single Target damage has been a thing for quite some time now.

Take a second to look at this screenshot and look how much damage the bear does, not just the top one either

https://prnt.sc/ix8yz5

• 125sec fight
• 22 casts of your Eternal Guardian ultimate

Did you honestly link a parse vs the twins where Mag Warden’s bear can bug out in order to achieve crazy DPS, as a way to prove Mag Warden isn’t weak?

Joxer61 · May 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Joxer61 wrote: »

"What's the point of bringing a class that needs to use Balance to achieve competitive DPS, when you can bring another class that doesn't need it?"

Here a thought...how about the simple reason of people playing what they want?
Exact same reason I left GW2....the "meta" telling you what you can and cant play. Sad to see that its here as well.....damn MMO disease it is.

"And NBs that use Soul Harvest achieve MUCH higher DPS than wardens that use bear. That's what a single target ultimate should give you: superior DPS. Warden bear only gives you comparable DPS to other classes, not superior. You're giving up AOE for no benefit."

The you play your NB...and let others play Warden if they wish. Why does it have to your way or the highway?

I want warden to be viable. Not sure why want it to be mediocre. By buffing wardens, they become more enjoyable for everyone.

On that I am with you 100%!! But you don't achieve that by knocking those that play em, that's all. All we can hope for is that ZOS does something. But if they are anything like ANET and GW2, it wont happen for a looonnnggg time. Its a curse I swear!!

MLGProPlayer · May 2018

Nifty2g wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

You guys need to chill, Warden is doing fine in PvE and if you want to play one, then go and play it. It does decent damage and it is out parsing sorcs for the most part as someone mention. And someone mentioned you take sorcs for the group utility, well that is obvious, but you only need 1 sorc

As for needing an AoE ultimate, you guys know that on pretty much every boss now you have 3 and sometimes 4 nightblades that just use Soul Harvest throughout the whole fight?

As for this argument about using balance, I don't see what the issue is, it gives you resistances, it gives you magicka, you just have to use it and be smart about using it if you happen to die with balance it is because of yourself.

And a couple videos of Wardens;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0__egIvd8T0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhxDIeVzpVo

https://prnt.sc/ix8yz5
https://prnt.sc/j1uily

Some people just like to scream that something is bad because of the popular crowd response, but really it's perfectly fine, most people just don't like how clunky some of the animations are for the class. Not every group needs a Warden in it. Wardens will make pretty good healers next patch though

What's the point of bringing a class that needs to use Balance to achieve competitive DPS, when you can bring another class that doesn't need it?

And NBs that use Soul Harvest achieve MUCH higher DPS than wardens that use bear. That's what a single target ultimate should give you: superior DPS. Warden bear only gives you comparable DPS to other classes, not superior. You're giving up AOE for no benefit.

There is a reason why only 2% of players on leader boards use warden.

What's the point of bringing a class that needs to use Balance to achieve competitive DPS, when you can bring another class that doesn't need it?

What does it matter, I don't see why this matters at all. There is no downside to it and it gives your armor buffs + sustain.

And NBs that use Soul Harvest achieve MUCH higher DPS than wardens that use bear. That's what a single target ultimate should give you: superior DPS. Warden bear only gives you comparable DPS to other classes, not superior. You're giving up AOE for no benefit.

Wardens are doing more damage than a sorcerer is, you missed that part when people have been saying it. So yes Wardens bear is giving you more superior dps when compared to Sorcerer. You can not fill up raids with 8 Nightblades lol. You do not need to use AoE ultimate's anymore except for trash packs anyway. High Single Target damage has been a thing for quite some time now.

Balance is a very risky ability. Other classes can achieve the same DPS without the risk.

And where are the sorc parses to compare with? I'm seeing a lot of folks claiming wardens are outparsing them this patch, despite receiving no buffs. I haven't followed sorc patch notes, did they get nerfed?

No they didn't get nerfed, Warden is just able to get higher single target than them, people just don't really play Wardens, like I said most dont like the clunky skill animations.

Balance is not risky if you are looking where you are standing and watching mechanics. There is a time in every single fight where nothing happens because of cooldowns, you can use Balance just fine. The only risk is casting it while you are kiting meteors on Rakkhat or something like that. I don't know why you think there is such a huge risk at all times when using the skill. Check out the Rakkhat video I posted of the Warden, there was never a risk

Warden certainly cannot outparse sorc on live right now. Something has to have changed on PTS if that is now the case. Sorcs can push 40k+ self-buffed easily. Wardens cannot.

LeHarrt91 · May 2018

I get the sense that what their trying to say is that the other magicka classes dont need to make that risk/ reward decision to get comparable DPS scores, where the warden does. Although high end players can pull it off, not all can.

Ludof · May 2018

Nifty2g wrote: »

You guys need to chill, Warden is doing fine in PvE and if you want to play one, then go and play it. It does decent damage and it is out parsing sorcs for the most part as someone mention. And someone mentioned you take sorcs for the group utility, well that is obvious, but you only need 1 sorc

As for needing an AoE ultimate, you guys know that on pretty much every boss now you have 3 and sometimes 4 nightblades that just use Soul Harvest throughout the whole fight?

As for this argument about using balance, I don't see what the issue is, it gives you resistances, it gives you magicka, you just have to use it and be smart about using it if you happen to die with balance it is because of yourself.

And a couple videos of Wardens;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0__egIvd8T0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhxDIeVzpVo

https://prnt.sc/ix8yz5
https://prnt.sc/j1uily

Some people just like to scream that something is bad because of the popular crowd response, but really it's perfectly fine, most people just don't like how clunky some of the animations are for the class. Not every group needs a Warden in it. Wardens will make pretty good healers next patch though

We've been speaking about PvP mainly.

PvE wise I still prefer Magblade or Sorc.
Bear ulti gives you comparable dps (or slightly superior DPS), while giving up the AoE damage.

MLGProPlayer · May 2018

Ludof wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

You guys need to chill, Warden is doing fine in PvE and if you want to play one, then go and play it. It does decent damage and it is out parsing sorcs for the most part as someone mention. And someone mentioned you take sorcs for the group utility, well that is obvious, but you only need 1 sorc

As for needing an AoE ultimate, you guys know that on pretty much every boss now you have 3 and sometimes 4 nightblades that just use Soul Harvest throughout the whole fight?

As for this argument about using balance, I don't see what the issue is, it gives you resistances, it gives you magicka, you just have to use it and be smart about using it if you happen to die with balance it is because of yourself.

And a couple videos of Wardens;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0__egIvd8T0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhxDIeVzpVo

https://prnt.sc/ix8yz5
https://prnt.sc/j1uily

Some people just like to scream that something is bad because of the popular crowd response, but really it's perfectly fine, most people just don't like how clunky some of the animations are for the class. Not every group needs a Warden in it. Wardens will make pretty good healers next patch though

We've been speaking about PvP mainly.

PvE wise I still prefer Magblade or Sorc.
Bear ulti gives you comparable dps (or slightly superior DPS), while giving up the AoE damage.

Nope. People are talking about PvE and PvP in this thread.

Vaoh · May 2018

Nifty2g wrote: »

You guys need to chill, Warden is doing fine in PvE and if you want to play one, then go and play it. It does decent damage and it is out parsing sorcs for the most part as someone mention. And someone mentioned you take sorcs for the group utility, well that is obvious, but you only need 1 sorc

As for needing an AoE ultimate, you guys know that on pretty much every boss now you have 3 and sometimes 4 nightblades that just use Soul Harvest throughout the whole fight?

As for this argument about using balance, I don't see what the issue is, it gives you resistances, it gives you magicka, you just have to use it and be smart about using it if you happen to die with balance it is because of yourself.

And a couple videos of Wardens;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0__egIvd8T0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhxDIeVzpVo

https://prnt.sc/ix8yz5
https://prnt.sc/j1uily

Some people just like to scream that something is bad because of the popular crowd response, but really it's perfectly fine, most people just don't like how clunky some of the animations are for the class. Not every group needs a Warden in it. Wardens will make pretty good healers next patch though

So what you’re saying is, if you want to play Mag Warden you will not be a total detriment to your group..... but you will obv be better in every way if you just choose a Mag NB?

Is it really difficult to see the issue with this? It looks like you are sort of just accepting Mag NB as the standard go-to for top DPS, while Mag Warden is merely “decent” in your own words when using Eternal Guardian. Why is that okay? We won’t even talk about them without an Eternal Guardian carrying their single target DPS.

The way groups build themselves in Dragon Bones is to analyze how many Magicka classes are needed and then choose 1-2 Mag Sorcs before filling all Magicka spots with Mag NB. Is this because Mag Warden is perfectly fine? I’m not stating my opinion on this btw - these are the facts of how it currently works in all groups I have seen. There must be logic in why it turned out this way rather than it simply being because everyone in the game needs to L2P except for a few ppl on PC....

I can make it work, but it’s blatantly obvious that this class is just poorly built and has tons of glaring issues especially if on console. Animation issues are one thing. However, for the very few who can keep up great uptime on their DoTs despite the lack of add-ons, the DPS produced is not even up to par with Mag NBs, who enjoy numerous benefits alongside the top DPS numbers. This makes it pointless to take Mag Warden.

Also you say Mag NB uses Soul Harvest - yes, but they can **slot and use** Ele Rage as well. I can’t do that with an Eternal Guardian double-barred, meaning I lose that AoE Dmg potential. The only solution atm to this is to swap Ults after every fight, but doesn’t that just sound totally ridiculous now? To put it plainly, the issue here is that Mag Warden -> Less DPS than Mag NB and none of the benefits

I don’t think people here have a problem with Warden being unpopular, but rather that it is currently *nonexistant* on trial leaderboards across all platforms. While DK/Sorc/NB/Templar representation fluctuates between something like 21-29% of all Vet Trial leaderboard spots, Wardens makes up about 1-2%...... which are all obviously alts used during weeklies. On my own server, 3/6 of the Wardens in vAA were the same player using alts

People have already put up all those statistics to be seen. That’s a massive issue imo and is proof of this class underperforming.

PLEASE tell me that the gap will be closed Summerset if you mean it. This would be amazing and make me very happy.

I might add, that those saying Mag Warden is great next patch are people who are members of some of the best groups in the game and are fantastic players themselves. So when they shout L2P about slotting Stalwart Shield in a trial as DPS, it’s a legitimate concern. I personally don’t find it an issue to slot Balance (very good skill) but many groups aren’t good enough to deal with that either. It shouldn’t be the case where a class is only “decent” when used by the absolute best players/groups in the game. This is why no one plays it rn.

I’m sorry, but there is basically nothing that Mag Warden gained in Summerset which was exclusive to their class. It’s extremely difficult to believe that they will somehow be able to have a legitimate trial presence next patch. Believe me, I would LOVE for that to be the case because I will be playing Mag Warden regardless. I’m like... one of the maybe 3-4 players who can make PvE Mag Warden perform well enough on my server to be competitive.

Oh and Mag Warden isn’t the only class that has issues either. Pretty sure Mag Templar DPS is the worst next patch.

MLGProPlayer · May 2018

Joxer61 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Joxer61 wrote: »

"What's the point of bringing a class that needs to use Balance to achieve competitive DPS, when you can bring another class that doesn't need it?"

Here a thought...how about the simple reason of people playing what they want?
Exact same reason I left GW2....the "meta" telling you what you can and cant play. Sad to see that its here as well.....damn MMO disease it is.

"And NBs that use Soul Harvest achieve MUCH higher DPS than wardens that use bear. That's what a single target ultimate should give you: superior DPS. Warden bear only gives you comparable DPS to other classes, not superior. You're giving up AOE for no benefit."

The you play your NB...and let others play Warden if they wish. Why does it have to your way or the highway?

I want warden to be viable. Not sure why want it to be mediocre. By buffing wardens, they become more enjoyable for everyone.

On that I am with you 100%!! But you don't achieve that by knocking those that play em, that's all. All we can hope for is that ZOS does something. But if they are anything like ANET and GW2, it wont happen for a looonnnggg time. Its a curse I swear!!

All of us complaining here are warden mains. We're just pointing out how far behind the other classes warden is to illustrate to ZOS that it needs serious buffs.

LeHarrt91 · May 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Joxer61 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Joxer61 wrote: »

"What's the point of bringing a class that needs to use Balance to achieve competitive DPS, when you can bring another class that doesn't need it?"

Here a thought...how about the simple reason of people playing what they want?
Exact same reason I left GW2....the "meta" telling you what you can and cant play. Sad to see that its here as well.....damn MMO disease it is.

"And NBs that use Soul Harvest achieve MUCH higher DPS than wardens that use bear. That's what a single target ultimate should give you: superior DPS. Warden bear only gives you comparable DPS to other classes, not superior. You're giving up AOE for no benefit."

The you play your NB...and let others play Warden if they wish. Why does it have to your way or the highway?

I want warden to be viable. Not sure why want it to be mediocre. By buffing wardens, they become more enjoyable for everyone.

On that I am with you 100%!! But you don't achieve that by knocking those that play em, that's all. All we can hope for is that ZOS does something. But if they are anything like ANET and GW2, it wont happen for a looonnnggg time. Its a curse I swear!!

All of us complaining here are warden mains. We're just pointing out how far behind the other classes warden is to illustrate to ZOS that it needs serious buffs.

Agreed. have mained a warden since Morrwind release. He is my highest achieved character, highest pvp rank and has the most titles. I love the warden class, which is why i care so much about its performance in the game.

Vaoh · May 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Joxer61 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Joxer61 wrote: »

"What's the point of bringing a class that needs to use Balance to achieve competitive DPS, when you can bring another class that doesn't need it?"

Here a thought...how about the simple reason of people playing what they want?
Exact same reason I left GW2....the "meta" telling you what you can and cant play. Sad to see that its here as well.....damn MMO disease it is.

"And NBs that use Soul Harvest achieve MUCH higher DPS than wardens that use bear. That's what a single target ultimate should give you: superior DPS. Warden bear only gives you comparable DPS to other classes, not superior. You're giving up AOE for no benefit."

The you play your NB...and let others play Warden if they wish. Why does it have to your way or the highway?

I want warden to be viable. Not sure why want it to be mediocre. By buffing wardens, they become more enjoyable for everyone.

On that I am with you 100%!! But you don't achieve that by knocking those that play em, that's all. All we can hope for is that ZOS does something. But if they are anything like ANET and GW2, it wont happen for a looonnnggg time. Its a curse I swear!!

All of us complaining here are warden mains. We're just pointing out how far behind the other classes warden is to illustrate to ZOS that it needs serious buffs.

Let’s be happy if they change anything at this point. Just looking at the fact that Stam Warden will be ridiculously strong in PvP, and Mag Warden the total opposite....

They can’t even be bothered to fix clunky animations on the Warden one year later. I’m hesitant to believe they understand how to meaningfully balance it.

Ludof · May 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Joxer61 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Joxer61 wrote: »

"What's the point of bringing a class that needs to use Balance to achieve competitive DPS, when you can bring another class that doesn't need it?"

Here a thought...how about the simple reason of people playing what they want?
Exact same reason I left GW2....the "meta" telling you what you can and cant play. Sad to see that its here as well.....damn MMO disease it is.

"And NBs that use Soul Harvest achieve MUCH higher DPS than wardens that use bear. That's what a single target ultimate should give you: superior DPS. Warden bear only gives you comparable DPS to other classes, not superior. You're giving up AOE for no benefit."

The you play your NB...and let others play Warden if they wish. Why does it have to your way or the highway?

I want warden to be viable. Not sure why want it to be mediocre. By buffing wardens, they become more enjoyable for everyone.

On that I am with you 100%!! But you don't achieve that by knocking those that play em, that's all. All we can hope for is that ZOS does something. But if they are anything like ANET and GW2, it wont happen for a looonnnggg time. Its a curse I swear!!

All of us complaining here are warden mains. We're just pointing out how far behind the other classes warden is to illustrate to ZOS that it needs serious buffs.

Not really...
I mained magplar and played other classes.

Magden really needs some serious rework as for CC/bear ulti/ control of the fight to be playable in PvP.

Joy_Division · May 2018

Nifty2g wrote: »

You guys need to chill, Warden is doing fine in PvE and if you want to play one, then go and play it. It does decent damage and it is out parsing sorcs for the most part as someone mention. And someone mentioned you take sorcs for the group utility, well that is obvious, but you only need 1 sorc

As for needing an AoE ultimate, you guys know that on pretty much every boss now you have 3 and sometimes 4 nightblades that just use Soul Harvest throughout the whole fight?

As for this argument about using balance, I don't see what the issue is, it gives you resistances, it gives you magicka, you just have to use it and be smart about using it if you happen to die with balance it is because of yourself.

And a couple videos of Wardens;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0__egIvd8T0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhxDIeVzpVo

https://prnt.sc/ix8yz5
https://prnt.sc/j1uily

Some people just like to scream that something is bad because of the popular crowd response, but really it's perfectly fine, most people just don't like how clunky some of the animations are for the class. Not every group needs a Warden in it. Wardens will make pretty good healers next patch though

Why bother playing a warden if only 3 of the 10 skills being used are Warden skills?