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PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer Balance
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Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Or just frag stunPhoenixGrey wrote: »Murador178 wrote: »PhoenixGrey wrote: »Murador178 wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »I have ONE question for all the nervous nelly Sorcs who are asking Rune Cage to be nerfed or re-worked:
WHERE is Sorc damage supposed to be coming from in the Summerset update? Because what we have now is not enough. This isn't even in dispute, or at least it shouldn't be.
Basically, my opinion is that anything a Stam Warden should be able to kill, Mag Sorcs should be able to kill, too. Anything a Stamblade should kill in two seconds, should definitely be killable by a Sorc in the 4 seconds our burst takes to set up. Similarly, anybody a Mag DK can kill, I should be able to kill... you get the picture.
I'm not going to be happy until Sorcs reach parity with the better builds in the game... otherwise, what is the point of playing a Sorc? I don't really care where the damage comes from, it just needs to be there. In my opinion, ZOS doesn't need to be nerfing Rune Cage until an effective alternative is offered.
The change of runecage --> making a dot e.g. wouldnt need to be a nerf. It could be a nerf on max burst but should increase sorc dps with the goal of making it easier for sorc to kill sword and board tanks. Even on life my problem with sorc is normally not killing dodge spammers its more like perma blockers (since sorc damage per second isnt too high).
Sure I m ok on having an added dot to rune cage. But there is no way sorc burst is remotely close to what nightblade or warden has on live.
NB burst is very easy to evade if u know how to... warden burst is the same.
But its much easier to land and warden in this case does not need an ultimate to burst as well. Anyway that's not the point.
The point is sorc burst on live is currently not good enough. What's the point of landing a burst if it hits like a wet noodle. Rune cage is one of the options to fill that gap. I am aware its unavoidable damage but I would prefer to have something until alternatives are figured out.
Lack of burst damage to kill tankier targets is a universal problem on Live (and PTS) - you burst, they heal/shield up ad infinitum. This is nothing new.
In fact, sorc ranks pretty high when it comes to burst damage (I believe apart from a few gank builds, only stamina warden can pull off more burst damage if they land Shalks & everything).
What sorcs lack isn't burst, it's pressure - which is why regular sorc builds don't tend to do well in duels for example while pet sorcs dominate them.
...and this is exactly why they shouldn't be giving more burst to abilities like Rune Cage, but rather buff skills that would help against tank builds (or buff Rune Cage in a way that helps vs those, not vs non-tank builds that can't avoid the Rune Cage), as well as make pets more viable (i.e. smarter) in Cyrodiil.
Rune cage on live is actually really good against tanks. How? You force-drop block for a couple of seconds.
I still think major breach on frags should be a thing rather than damage on cage. All of the nightblades want cage to be a DOT so they can just suppress it with cloak. I’d rather see frags hit harder and fracture, and be able to guarantee a hit with cage:
Strange - i don´t have as much issues with tanks as i have with other sorcs.
Breach is literally useless vs shieldstacking (and the nonexistant spellresi beneath).
I like the cage dmg on pts because it finally allows sorc vs sorc (the most boring matchup in eso history) to end. For that reason i can´t find any appeal in breach on frags. It wouldn´t change anything.
You have to think about a dot on cage this way - if it´s a 6s dot (with cc immunity being 7s) nbs would have 1s where they could attack.
It should also procc blood magic which would finally be a reliable way to utilize that stupid currently useless passive.
Do no harness sorc duels, those are quick and fun. At least when frag stun was around.
A deep question @Irylia posed in the “Joys of ESO”
“What the hell is the point of streak, when people can just walk after you and keep up?”
I think that one clip makes me want to cancel my Summerset preorder...
Edited by Minalan on May 5, 2018 7:37PM4 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Olen_Mikko wrote: »Sorcs needed love, they were underperforming and were on a bad spot.
Would be nice to have class that could gear themselves purely as a dps without needing to use heavy impenetrable armor.
Would be nice to have a class that can reliably disengage from a battle, should they want.
Would be nice to have op pets and gear designed for just one class.
Oh wait
Can't tell if you are sarcastic about sorcs or self ironic about being "NB enthusiastic".
But I guess it's just being clueless.
“OP pets and gear designed for one class” made me laugh. Like nightblades with shade and Wardens with the bear don’t use necropotence.
No kidding. The only gear designed solely with Sorcs in mind is Shield Breaker.
Alright I laughed. Awesome Emma. Just awesome.2 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
You don't need a larger shield if you only fight potatoes. I've tried Empowered and while it's not quite such an obvious choice anymore, you'll quickly feel the reduced shield size vs good players, effectively negating the increase in sustain.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Or just frag stunPhoenixGrey wrote: »Murador178 wrote: »PhoenixGrey wrote: »Murador178 wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »I have ONE question for all the nervous nelly Sorcs who are asking Rune Cage to be nerfed or re-worked:
WHERE is Sorc damage supposed to be coming from in the Summerset update? Because what we have now is not enough. This isn't even in dispute, or at least it shouldn't be.
Basically, my opinion is that anything a Stam Warden should be able to kill, Mag Sorcs should be able to kill, too. Anything a Stamblade should kill in two seconds, should definitely be killable by a Sorc in the 4 seconds our burst takes to set up. Similarly, anybody a Mag DK can kill, I should be able to kill... you get the picture.
I'm not going to be happy until Sorcs reach parity with the better builds in the game... otherwise, what is the point of playing a Sorc? I don't really care where the damage comes from, it just needs to be there. In my opinion, ZOS doesn't need to be nerfing Rune Cage until an effective alternative is offered.
The change of runecage --> making a dot e.g. wouldnt need to be a nerf. It could be a nerf on max burst but should increase sorc dps with the goal of making it easier for sorc to kill sword and board tanks. Even on life my problem with sorc is normally not killing dodge spammers its more like perma blockers (since sorc damage per second isnt too high).
Sure I m ok on having an added dot to rune cage. But there is no way sorc burst is remotely close to what nightblade or warden has on live.
NB burst is very easy to evade if u know how to... warden burst is the same.
But its much easier to land and warden in this case does not need an ultimate to burst as well. Anyway that's not the point.
The point is sorc burst on live is currently not good enough. What's the point of landing a burst if it hits like a wet noodle. Rune cage is one of the options to fill that gap. I am aware its unavoidable damage but I would prefer to have something until alternatives are figured out.
Lack of burst damage to kill tankier targets is a universal problem on Live (and PTS) - you burst, they heal/shield up ad infinitum. This is nothing new.
In fact, sorc ranks pretty high when it comes to burst damage (I believe apart from a few gank builds, only stamina warden can pull off more burst damage if they land Shalks & everything).
What sorcs lack isn't burst, it's pressure - which is why regular sorc builds don't tend to do well in duels for example while pet sorcs dominate them.
...and this is exactly why they shouldn't be giving more burst to abilities like Rune Cage, but rather buff skills that would help against tank builds (or buff Rune Cage in a way that helps vs those, not vs non-tank builds that can't avoid the Rune Cage), as well as make pets more viable (i.e. smarter) in Cyrodiil.
Rune cage on live is actually really good against tanks. How? You force-drop block for a couple of seconds.
I still think major breach on frags should be a thing rather than damage on cage. All of the nightblades want cage to be a DOT so they can just suppress it with cloak. I’d rather see frags hit harder and fracture, and be able to guarantee a hit with cage:
Strange - i don´t have as much issues with tanks as i have with other sorcs.
Breach is literally useless vs shieldstacking (and the nonexistant spellresi beneath).
I like the cage dmg on pts because it finally allows sorc vs sorc (the most boring matchup in eso history) to end. For that reason i can´t find any appeal in breach on frags. It wouldn´t change anything.
You have to think about a dot on cage this way - if it´s a 6s dot (with cc immunity being 7s) nbs would have 1s where they could attack.
It should also procc blood magic which would finally be a reliable way to utilize that stupid currently useless passive.
Do no harness sorc duels, those are quick and fun. At least when frag stun was around.
A deep question @Irylia posed in the “Joys of ESO”
“What the hell is the point of streak, when people can just walk after you and keep up?”
I think that one clip makes me want to cancel my Summerset preorder...
Streak needs a small buff, imo.
Make it so that when the ball of lightning is hit by a projectile it refunds it’s stacking cost increase (like only the increase not the full cost) and increase the damage on streak while removing its stacking cost as long as you damage someone. That sounds like a reasonable buff.Edited by Subversus on May 6, 2018 7:57AM5 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
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You don't need a larger shield if you only fight potatoes. I've tried Empowered and while it's not quite such an obvious choice anymore, you'll quickly feel the reduced shield size vs good players, effectively negating the increase in sustain.
Pretty sure Shiro meant PvE. He's typically avoiding Cyro, but a demi-god in trials.1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Streak needs a small buff, imo.
Make it so that when the ball of lightning is hit by a projectile it refunds it’s stacking cost increase (like only the increase not the full cost) and increase the damage on streak while removing its stacking cost as long as you damage someone. That sounds like a reasonable buff.
Imo the only thing ball of lightning needs is to reliably work. It´s pretty damn strong but more often than not just flatout fails to work at all.
The change to streak not having it´s cost increased when dealing dmg has been proposed even before the stacking costs got introduced - i guess it´s either not doable easily or zos disagrees with streaks incombat functionality.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
You don't need a larger shield if you only fight potatoes. I've tried Empowered and while it's not quite such an obvious choice anymore, you'll quickly feel the reduced shield size vs good players, effectively negating the increase in sustain.
Pretty sure Shiro meant PvE. He's typically avoiding Cyro, but a demi-god in trials.
Yeah, I realized that later, too. Was too sleepy then.Edited by ToRelax on May 6, 2018 8:20AMDAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Streak needs a small buff, imo.
Make it so that when the ball of lightning is hit by a projectile it refunds it’s stacking cost increase (like only the increase not the full cost) and increase the damage on streak while removing its stacking cost as long as you damage someone. That sounds like a reasonable buff.
Imo the only thing ball of lightning needs is to reliably work. It´s pretty damn strong but more often than not just flatout fails to work at all.
The change to streak not having it´s cost increased when dealing dmg has been proposed even before the stacking costs got introduced - i guess it´s either not doable easily or zos disagrees with streaks incombat functionality.
Yeah ball of lightning is crazy strong in a 1v1 scenario.0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
You don't need a larger shield if you only fight potatoes. I've tried Empowered and while it's not quite such an obvious choice anymore, you'll quickly feel the reduced shield size vs good players, effectively negating the increase in sustain.
Pretty sure Shiro meant PvE. He's typically avoiding Cyro, but a demi-god in trials.
Yeah, I figured as much.
I think he’s well aware that Hardened ward is clearly the PVP morph. It can take approximately one ani-cancelled Heavy and class or weapon skill before it’s down and you’re taking health damage.0 -
Jsmalls✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »@ezio45 nope, they stay on, you just streak to the new location
And by new location we mean wherever you were facing when you were immobilized, not the way your camera is facing -___-2 -
IAVITNI✭✭✭✭✭Will anyone be switching to emproward ward with the changes?
I might. Thought about Empowered with Dampen. Should be a larger overall shield stack and better average sustain in all situations.
I know someone that does it now on live and it works for him. But in anything more than a 1v4 I really don't think any combination but Hardened+Harness will come out on top. Harness will still be the better sustain at that point as long as their is 1 mag in the 4 and if all 4 are stamina you're probably going to die to snare/defile anyways.
Only real way that empowered takes hardened spot is if sorcs gain a defensive skill that actually works.
Boundless is useless.
Mines is way too niche, really only useful in a 1v1/2.
pet sorcs may. But since most only run 1 shield I doubt it.0 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Alright, i think if streak granted snare and immobility immunity. i think that would be enough of a buff1 -
Irylia✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Or just frag stunPhoenixGrey wrote: »Murador178 wrote: »PhoenixGrey wrote: »Murador178 wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »I have ONE question for all the nervous nelly Sorcs who are asking Rune Cage to be nerfed or re-worked:
WHERE is Sorc damage supposed to be coming from in the Summerset update? Because what we have now is not enough. This isn't even in dispute, or at least it shouldn't be.
Basically, my opinion is that anything a Stam Warden should be able to kill, Mag Sorcs should be able to kill, too. Anything a Stamblade should kill in two seconds, should definitely be killable by a Sorc in the 4 seconds our burst takes to set up. Similarly, anybody a Mag DK can kill, I should be able to kill... you get the picture.
I'm not going to be happy until Sorcs reach parity with the better builds in the game... otherwise, what is the point of playing a Sorc? I don't really care where the damage comes from, it just needs to be there. In my opinion, ZOS doesn't need to be nerfing Rune Cage until an effective alternative is offered.
The change of runecage --> making a dot e.g. wouldnt need to be a nerf. It could be a nerf on max burst but should increase sorc dps with the goal of making it easier for sorc to kill sword and board tanks. Even on life my problem with sorc is normally not killing dodge spammers its more like perma blockers (since sorc damage per second isnt too high).
Sure I m ok on having an added dot to rune cage. But there is no way sorc burst is remotely close to what nightblade or warden has on live.
NB burst is very easy to evade if u know how to... warden burst is the same.
But its much easier to land and warden in this case does not need an ultimate to burst as well. Anyway that's not the point.
The point is sorc burst on live is currently not good enough. What's the point of landing a burst if it hits like a wet noodle. Rune cage is one of the options to fill that gap. I am aware its unavoidable damage but I would prefer to have something until alternatives are figured out.
Lack of burst damage to kill tankier targets is a universal problem on Live (and PTS) - you burst, they heal/shield up ad infinitum. This is nothing new.
In fact, sorc ranks pretty high when it comes to burst damage (I believe apart from a few gank builds, only stamina warden can pull off more burst damage if they land Shalks & everything).
What sorcs lack isn't burst, it's pressure - which is why regular sorc builds don't tend to do well in duels for example while pet sorcs dominate them.
...and this is exactly why they shouldn't be giving more burst to abilities like Rune Cage, but rather buff skills that would help against tank builds (or buff Rune Cage in a way that helps vs those, not vs non-tank builds that can't avoid the Rune Cage), as well as make pets more viable (i.e. smarter) in Cyrodiil.
Rune cage on live is actually really good against tanks. How? You force-drop block for a couple of seconds.
I still think major breach on frags should be a thing rather than damage on cage. All of the nightblades want cage to be a DOT so they can just suppress it with cloak. I’d rather see frags hit harder and fracture, and be able to guarantee a hit with cage:
Strange - i don´t have as much issues with tanks as i have with other sorcs.
Breach is literally useless vs shieldstacking (and the nonexistant spellresi beneath).
I like the cage dmg on pts because it finally allows sorc vs sorc (the most boring matchup in eso history) to end. For that reason i can´t find any appeal in breach on frags. It wouldn´t change anything.
You have to think about a dot on cage this way - if it´s a 6s dot (with cc immunity being 7s) nbs would have 1s where they could attack.
It should also procc blood magic which would finally be a reliable way to utilize that stupid currently useless passive.
Do no harness sorc duels, those are quick and fun. At least when frag stun was around.
A deep question @Irylia posed in the “Joys of ESO”
“What the hell is the point of streak, when people can just walk after you and keep up?”
I think that one clip makes me want to cancel my Summerset preorder...
Streak needs a small buff, imo.
Make it so that when the ball of lightning is hit by a projectile it refunds it’s stacking cost increase (like only the increase not the full cost) and increase the damage on streak while removing its stacking cost as long as you damage someone. That sounds like a reasonable buff.
I just want snare removal or longer distance on it. even delay front/end removed
2 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭so streak gives snare/immobility immunity and rune cage needs to be a dot that can proc surge2 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭so streak gives snare/immobility immunity and rune cage needs to be a dot that can proc surge
I’d say cut the damage a bit, but TBH I’m not getting a tooltip anywhere near 9K. Making it a DOT will just allow nightblades to suppress and ignore it, which is really what they want and we all know it.
When we start taking balance advice from nightblade mains, we might as well all just re-roll stamblade.
Last question I’ll leave you all with: How much stamina/nightblade damage is delayed? Do we really need yet another delayed damage skill?1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭so streak gives snare/immobility immunity and rune cage needs to be a dot that can proc surge
I’d say cut the damage a bit, but TBH I’m not getting a tooltip anywhere near 9K. Making it a DOT will just allow nightblades to suppress and ignore it, which is really what they want and we all know it.
When we start taking balance advice from nightblade mains, we might as well all just re-roll stamblade.
Last question I’ll leave you all with: How much stamina/nightblade damage is delayed? Do we really need yet another delayed damage skill?
No but we need a dot that´s accessible and raises sustained dps and pressure while defensive.
I don´t really have issues with nbs - the problem is with cloak counters and that´s a seperate issue from cage being a dot or not.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭tbh idc if nightblades do anything with it lol there already handle-able in pvp, I want the dots for the heavy armor dks and for the heal of surge1 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭so streak gives snare/immobility immunity and rune cage needs to be a dot that can proc surge
I’d say cut the damage a bit, but TBH I’m not getting a tooltip anywhere near 9K. Making it a DOT will just allow nightblades to suppress and ignore it, which is really what they want and we all know it.
When we start taking balance advice from nightblade mains, we might as well all just re-roll stamblade.
Last question I’ll leave you all with: How much stamina/nightblade damage is delayed? Do we really need yet another delayed damage skill?
No but we need a dot that´s accessible and raises sustained dps and pressure while defensive.
I don´t really have issues with nbs - the problem is with cloak counters and that´s a seperate issue from cage being a dot or not.
^
I don’t really get sorcs that say they have problems with a cloakless nb.0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭so streak gives snare/immobility immunity and rune cage needs to be a dot that can proc surge
I’d say cut the damage a bit, but TBH I’m not getting a tooltip anywhere near 9K. Making it a DOT will just allow nightblades to suppress and ignore it, which is really what they want and we all know it.
When we start taking balance advice from nightblade mains, we might as well all just re-roll stamblade.
Last question I’ll leave you all with: How much stamina/nightblade damage is delayed? Do we really need yet another delayed damage skill?
No but we need a dot that´s accessible and raises sustained dps and pressure while defensive.
I don´t really have issues with nbs - the problem is with cloak counters and that´s a seperate issue from cage being a dot or not.
^
I don’t really get sorcs that say they have problems with a cloakless nb.
Who said that? Minalan explicitly pointed towards the dot surpression of cloak.Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on May 7, 2018 10:43AM0 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Or just frag stunPhoenixGrey wrote: »Murador178 wrote: »PhoenixGrey wrote: »Murador178 wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »I have ONE question for all the nervous nelly Sorcs who are asking Rune Cage to be nerfed or re-worked:
WHERE is Sorc damage supposed to be coming from in the Summerset update? Because what we have now is not enough. This isn't even in dispute, or at least it shouldn't be.
Basically, my opinion is that anything a Stam Warden should be able to kill, Mag Sorcs should be able to kill, too. Anything a Stamblade should kill in two seconds, should definitely be killable by a Sorc in the 4 seconds our burst takes to set up. Similarly, anybody a Mag DK can kill, I should be able to kill... you get the picture.
I'm not going to be happy until Sorcs reach parity with the better builds in the game... otherwise, what is the point of playing a Sorc? I don't really care where the damage comes from, it just needs to be there. In my opinion, ZOS doesn't need to be nerfing Rune Cage until an effective alternative is offered.
The change of runecage --> making a dot e.g. wouldnt need to be a nerf. It could be a nerf on max burst but should increase sorc dps with the goal of making it easier for sorc to kill sword and board tanks. Even on life my problem with sorc is normally not killing dodge spammers its more like perma blockers (since sorc damage per second isnt too high).
Sure I m ok on having an added dot to rune cage. But there is no way sorc burst is remotely close to what nightblade or warden has on live.
NB burst is very easy to evade if u know how to... warden burst is the same.
But its much easier to land and warden in this case does not need an ultimate to burst as well. Anyway that's not the point.
The point is sorc burst on live is currently not good enough. What's the point of landing a burst if it hits like a wet noodle. Rune cage is one of the options to fill that gap. I am aware its unavoidable damage but I would prefer to have something until alternatives are figured out.
Lack of burst damage to kill tankier targets is a universal problem on Live (and PTS) - you burst, they heal/shield up ad infinitum. This is nothing new.
In fact, sorc ranks pretty high when it comes to burst damage (I believe apart from a few gank builds, only stamina warden can pull off more burst damage if they land Shalks & everything).
What sorcs lack isn't burst, it's pressure - which is why regular sorc builds don't tend to do well in duels for example while pet sorcs dominate them.
...and this is exactly why they shouldn't be giving more burst to abilities like Rune Cage, but rather buff skills that would help against tank builds (or buff Rune Cage in a way that helps vs those, not vs non-tank builds that can't avoid the Rune Cage), as well as make pets more viable (i.e. smarter) in Cyrodiil.
Rune cage on live is actually really good against tanks. How? You force-drop block for a couple of seconds.
I still think major breach on frags should be a thing rather than damage on cage. All of the nightblades want cage to be a DOT so they can just suppress it with cloak. I’d rather see frags hit harder and fracture, and be able to guarantee a hit with cage:
Strange - i don´t have as much issues with tanks as i have with other sorcs.
Breach is literally useless vs shieldstacking (and the nonexistant spellresi beneath).
I like the cage dmg on pts because it finally allows sorc vs sorc (the most boring matchup in eso history) to end. For that reason i can´t find any appeal in breach on frags. It wouldn´t change anything.
You have to think about a dot on cage this way - if it´s a 6s dot (with cc immunity being 7s) nbs would have 1s where they could attack.
It should also procc blood magic which would finally be a reliable way to utilize that stupid currently useless passive.
Do no harness sorc duels, those are quick and fun. At least when frag stun was around.
A deep question @Irylia posed in the “Joys of ESO”
“What the hell is the point of streak, when people can just walk after you and keep up?”
I think that one clip makes me want to cancel my Summerset preorder...
Or the point of the stack increase when the gap closer doesn't have one....2 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Malamar1229 wrote: »
Or just frag stunPhoenixGrey wrote: »Murador178 wrote: »PhoenixGrey wrote: »Murador178 wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »I have ONE question for all the nervous nelly Sorcs who are asking Rune Cage to be nerfed or re-worked:
WHERE is Sorc damage supposed to be coming from in the Summerset update? Because what we have now is not enough. This isn't even in dispute, or at least it shouldn't be.
Basically, my opinion is that anything a Stam Warden should be able to kill, Mag Sorcs should be able to kill, too. Anything a Stamblade should kill in two seconds, should definitely be killable by a Sorc in the 4 seconds our burst takes to set up. Similarly, anybody a Mag DK can kill, I should be able to kill... you get the picture.
I'm not going to be happy until Sorcs reach parity with the better builds in the game... otherwise, what is the point of playing a Sorc? I don't really care where the damage comes from, it just needs to be there. In my opinion, ZOS doesn't need to be nerfing Rune Cage until an effective alternative is offered.
The change of runecage --> making a dot e.g. wouldnt need to be a nerf. It could be a nerf on max burst but should increase sorc dps with the goal of making it easier for sorc to kill sword and board tanks. Even on life my problem with sorc is normally not killing dodge spammers its more like perma blockers (since sorc damage per second isnt too high).
Sure I m ok on having an added dot to rune cage. But there is no way sorc burst is remotely close to what nightblade or warden has on live.
NB burst is very easy to evade if u know how to... warden burst is the same.
But its much easier to land and warden in this case does not need an ultimate to burst as well. Anyway that's not the point.
The point is sorc burst on live is currently not good enough. What's the point of landing a burst if it hits like a wet noodle. Rune cage is one of the options to fill that gap. I am aware its unavoidable damage but I would prefer to have something until alternatives are figured out.
Lack of burst damage to kill tankier targets is a universal problem on Live (and PTS) - you burst, they heal/shield up ad infinitum. This is nothing new.
In fact, sorc ranks pretty high when it comes to burst damage (I believe apart from a few gank builds, only stamina warden can pull off more burst damage if they land Shalks & everything).
What sorcs lack isn't burst, it's pressure - which is why regular sorc builds don't tend to do well in duels for example while pet sorcs dominate them.
...and this is exactly why they shouldn't be giving more burst to abilities like Rune Cage, but rather buff skills that would help against tank builds (or buff Rune Cage in a way that helps vs those, not vs non-tank builds that can't avoid the Rune Cage), as well as make pets more viable (i.e. smarter) in Cyrodiil.
Rune cage on live is actually really good against tanks. How? You force-drop block for a couple of seconds.
I still think major breach on frags should be a thing rather than damage on cage. All of the nightblades want cage to be a DOT so they can just suppress it with cloak. I’d rather see frags hit harder and fracture, and be able to guarantee a hit with cage:
Strange - i don´t have as much issues with tanks as i have with other sorcs.
Breach is literally useless vs shieldstacking (and the nonexistant spellresi beneath).
I like the cage dmg on pts because it finally allows sorc vs sorc (the most boring matchup in eso history) to end. For that reason i can´t find any appeal in breach on frags. It wouldn´t change anything.
You have to think about a dot on cage this way - if it´s a 6s dot (with cc immunity being 7s) nbs would have 1s where they could attack.
It should also procc blood magic which would finally be a reliable way to utilize that stupid currently useless passive.
Do no harness sorc duels, those are quick and fun. At least when frag stun was around.
A deep question @Irylia posed in the “Joys of ESO”
“What the hell is the point of streak, when people can just walk after you and keep up?”
I think that one clip makes me want to cancel my Summerset preorder...
Or the point of the stack increase when the gap closer doesn't have one....
They were *walking* after him with expedition up. I can’t link it here because Irylia is a potty mouth, but it was absolutely sickening to watch.Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »so streak gives snare/immobility immunity and rune cage needs to be a dot that can proc surge
I’d say cut the damage a bit, but TBH I’m not getting a tooltip anywhere near 9K. Making it a DOT will just allow nightblades to suppress and ignore it, which is really what they want and we all know it.
When we start taking balance advice from nightblade mains, we might as well all just re-roll stamblade.
Last question I’ll leave you all with: How much stamina/nightblade damage is delayed? Do we really need yet another delayed damage skill?
No but we need a dot that´s accessible and raises sustained dps and pressure while defensive.
I don´t really have issues with nbs - the problem is with cloak counters and that´s a seperate issue from cage being a dot or not.
^
I don’t really get sorcs that say they have problems with a cloakless nb.
Who said that? Minalan explicitly pointed towards the dot surpression of cloak.
We’re not a DOT class, if I wanted one I would run a fire enchant or flame reach. I agree that cage damage is too high currently but I don’t think 2-3K of frontloaded damage would be OP. That’s not even a light attack this patch. I’m just pointing out the irony of our invisible little ganker friends suggesting a ‘fix’ that they all have a direct counter to.
Not that it matters, if sload goes live as is, nightblade as a viable PVP class is completely finished. Done for. Everyone is going to run it, it has like 90% uptime, and oblivion damage DOTs can’t be suppressed by cloak. Stick 20% in thaumaturge and the dot ticks for 1K six times.0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Malamar1229 wrote: »
Or just frag stunPhoenixGrey wrote: »Murador178 wrote: »PhoenixGrey wrote: »Murador178 wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »I have ONE question for all the nervous nelly Sorcs who are asking Rune Cage to be nerfed or re-worked:
WHERE is Sorc damage supposed to be coming from in the Summerset update? Because what we have now is not enough. This isn't even in dispute, or at least it shouldn't be.
Basically, my opinion is that anything a Stam Warden should be able to kill, Mag Sorcs should be able to kill, too. Anything a Stamblade should kill in two seconds, should definitely be killable by a Sorc in the 4 seconds our burst takes to set up. Similarly, anybody a Mag DK can kill, I should be able to kill... you get the picture.
I'm not going to be happy until Sorcs reach parity with the better builds in the game... otherwise, what is the point of playing a Sorc? I don't really care where the damage comes from, it just needs to be there. In my opinion, ZOS doesn't need to be nerfing Rune Cage until an effective alternative is offered.
The change of runecage --> making a dot e.g. wouldnt need to be a nerf. It could be a nerf on max burst but should increase sorc dps with the goal of making it easier for sorc to kill sword and board tanks. Even on life my problem with sorc is normally not killing dodge spammers its more like perma blockers (since sorc damage per second isnt too high).
Sure I m ok on having an added dot to rune cage. But there is no way sorc burst is remotely close to what nightblade or warden has on live.
NB burst is very easy to evade if u know how to... warden burst is the same.
But its much easier to land and warden in this case does not need an ultimate to burst as well. Anyway that's not the point.
The point is sorc burst on live is currently not good enough. What's the point of landing a burst if it hits like a wet noodle. Rune cage is one of the options to fill that gap. I am aware its unavoidable damage but I would prefer to have something until alternatives are figured out.
Lack of burst damage to kill tankier targets is a universal problem on Live (and PTS) - you burst, they heal/shield up ad infinitum. This is nothing new.
In fact, sorc ranks pretty high when it comes to burst damage (I believe apart from a few gank builds, only stamina warden can pull off more burst damage if they land Shalks & everything).
What sorcs lack isn't burst, it's pressure - which is why regular sorc builds don't tend to do well in duels for example while pet sorcs dominate them.
...and this is exactly why they shouldn't be giving more burst to abilities like Rune Cage, but rather buff skills that would help against tank builds (or buff Rune Cage in a way that helps vs those, not vs non-tank builds that can't avoid the Rune Cage), as well as make pets more viable (i.e. smarter) in Cyrodiil.
Rune cage on live is actually really good against tanks. How? You force-drop block for a couple of seconds.
I still think major breach on frags should be a thing rather than damage on cage. All of the nightblades want cage to be a DOT so they can just suppress it with cloak. I’d rather see frags hit harder and fracture, and be able to guarantee a hit with cage:
Strange - i don´t have as much issues with tanks as i have with other sorcs.
Breach is literally useless vs shieldstacking (and the nonexistant spellresi beneath).
I like the cage dmg on pts because it finally allows sorc vs sorc (the most boring matchup in eso history) to end. For that reason i can´t find any appeal in breach on frags. It wouldn´t change anything.
You have to think about a dot on cage this way - if it´s a 6s dot (with cc immunity being 7s) nbs would have 1s where they could attack.
It should also procc blood magic which would finally be a reliable way to utilize that stupid currently useless passive.
Do no harness sorc duels, those are quick and fun. At least when frag stun was around.
A deep question @Irylia posed in the “Joys of ESO”
“What the hell is the point of streak, when people can just walk after you and keep up?”
I think that one clip makes me want to cancel my Summerset preorder...
Or the point of the stack increase when the gap closer doesn't have one....
They were *walking* after him with expedition up. I can’t link it here because Irylia is a potty mouth, but it was absolutely sickening to watch.Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »so streak gives snare/immobility immunity and rune cage needs to be a dot that can proc surge
I’d say cut the damage a bit, but TBH I’m not getting a tooltip anywhere near 9K. Making it a DOT will just allow nightblades to suppress and ignore it, which is really what they want and we all know it.
When we start taking balance advice from nightblade mains, we might as well all just re-roll stamblade.
Last question I’ll leave you all with: How much stamina/nightblade damage is delayed? Do we really need yet another delayed damage skill?
No but we need a dot that´s accessible and raises sustained dps and pressure while defensive.
I don´t really have issues with nbs - the problem is with cloak counters and that´s a seperate issue from cage being a dot or not.
^
I don’t really get sorcs that say they have problems with a cloakless nb.
Who said that? Minalan explicitly pointed towards the dot surpression of cloak.
We’re not a DOT class, if I wanted one I would run a fire enchant or flame reach. I agree that cage damage is too high currently but I don’t think 2-3K of frontloaded damage would be OP. That’s not even a light attack this patch. I’m just pointing out the irony of our invisible little ganker friends suggesting a ‘fix’ that they all have a direct counter to.
Not that it matters, if sload goes live as is, nightblade as a viable PVP class is completely finished. Done for. Everyone is going to run it, it has like 90% uptime, and oblivion damage DOTs can’t be suppressed by cloak. Stick 20% in thaumaturge and the dot ticks for 1K six times.
Which is kinda the point I think.
NBs have had their time, now we rotate back to Sorc.
I remember a time for each class when it was it's time to shine...
All but Magden. Apparently - gotta point this out -
*Magden loses the hard CC from fissure because of the lame damage + CC excuse, and at the exact same time they add more damage to a sorc (unblockable or undodgeable) hard CC....
SmhEdited by Waffennacht on May 7, 2018 2:32PM1 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Malamar1229 wrote: »
Or just frag stunPhoenixGrey wrote: »Murador178 wrote: »PhoenixGrey wrote: »Murador178 wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »I have ONE question for all the nervous nelly Sorcs who are asking Rune Cage to be nerfed or re-worked:
WHERE is Sorc damage supposed to be coming from in the Summerset update? Because what we have now is not enough. This isn't even in dispute, or at least it shouldn't be.
Basically, my opinion is that anything a Stam Warden should be able to kill, Mag Sorcs should be able to kill, too. Anything a Stamblade should kill in two seconds, should definitely be killable by a Sorc in the 4 seconds our burst takes to set up. Similarly, anybody a Mag DK can kill, I should be able to kill... you get the picture.
I'm not going to be happy until Sorcs reach parity with the better builds in the game... otherwise, what is the point of playing a Sorc? I don't really care where the damage comes from, it just needs to be there. In my opinion, ZOS doesn't need to be nerfing Rune Cage until an effective alternative is offered.
The change of runecage --> making a dot e.g. wouldnt need to be a nerf. It could be a nerf on max burst but should increase sorc dps with the goal of making it easier for sorc to kill sword and board tanks. Even on life my problem with sorc is normally not killing dodge spammers its more like perma blockers (since sorc damage per second isnt too high).
Sure I m ok on having an added dot to rune cage. But there is no way sorc burst is remotely close to what nightblade or warden has on live.
NB burst is very easy to evade if u know how to... warden burst is the same.
But its much easier to land and warden in this case does not need an ultimate to burst as well. Anyway that's not the point.
The point is sorc burst on live is currently not good enough. What's the point of landing a burst if it hits like a wet noodle. Rune cage is one of the options to fill that gap. I am aware its unavoidable damage but I would prefer to have something until alternatives are figured out.
Lack of burst damage to kill tankier targets is a universal problem on Live (and PTS) - you burst, they heal/shield up ad infinitum. This is nothing new.
In fact, sorc ranks pretty high when it comes to burst damage (I believe apart from a few gank builds, only stamina warden can pull off more burst damage if they land Shalks & everything).
What sorcs lack isn't burst, it's pressure - which is why regular sorc builds don't tend to do well in duels for example while pet sorcs dominate them.
...and this is exactly why they shouldn't be giving more burst to abilities like Rune Cage, but rather buff skills that would help against tank builds (or buff Rune Cage in a way that helps vs those, not vs non-tank builds that can't avoid the Rune Cage), as well as make pets more viable (i.e. smarter) in Cyrodiil.
Rune cage on live is actually really good against tanks. How? You force-drop block for a couple of seconds.
I still think major breach on frags should be a thing rather than damage on cage. All of the nightblades want cage to be a DOT so they can just suppress it with cloak. I’d rather see frags hit harder and fracture, and be able to guarantee a hit with cage:
Strange - i don´t have as much issues with tanks as i have with other sorcs.
Breach is literally useless vs shieldstacking (and the nonexistant spellresi beneath).
I like the cage dmg on pts because it finally allows sorc vs sorc (the most boring matchup in eso history) to end. For that reason i can´t find any appeal in breach on frags. It wouldn´t change anything.
You have to think about a dot on cage this way - if it´s a 6s dot (with cc immunity being 7s) nbs would have 1s where they could attack.
It should also procc blood magic which would finally be a reliable way to utilize that stupid currently useless passive.
Do no harness sorc duels, those are quick and fun. At least when frag stun was around.
A deep question @Irylia posed in the “Joys of ESO”
“What the hell is the point of streak, when people can just walk after you and keep up?”
I think that one clip makes me want to cancel my Summerset preorder...
Or the point of the stack increase when the gap closer doesn't have one....
They were *walking* after him with expedition up. I can’t link it here because Irylia is a potty mouth, but it was absolutely sickening to watch.Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »so streak gives snare/immobility immunity and rune cage needs to be a dot that can proc surge
I’d say cut the damage a bit, but TBH I’m not getting a tooltip anywhere near 9K. Making it a DOT will just allow nightblades to suppress and ignore it, which is really what they want and we all know it.
When we start taking balance advice from nightblade mains, we might as well all just re-roll stamblade.
Last question I’ll leave you all with: How much stamina/nightblade damage is delayed? Do we really need yet another delayed damage skill?
No but we need a dot that´s accessible and raises sustained dps and pressure while defensive.
I don´t really have issues with nbs - the problem is with cloak counters and that´s a seperate issue from cage being a dot or not.
^
I don’t really get sorcs that say they have problems with a cloakless nb.
Who said that? Minalan explicitly pointed towards the dot surpression of cloak.
We’re not a DOT class, if I wanted one I would run a fire enchant or flame reach. I agree that cage damage is too high currently but I don’t think 2-3K of frontloaded damage would be OP. That’s not even a light attack this patch. I’m just pointing out the irony of our invisible little ganker friends suggesting a ‘fix’ that they all have a direct counter to.
Not that it matters, if sload goes live as is, nightblade as a viable PVP class is completely finished. Done for. Everyone is going to run it, it has like 90% uptime, and oblivion damage DOTs can’t be suppressed by cloak. Stick 20% in thaumaturge and the dot ticks for 1K six times.
Which is kinda the point I think.
NBs have had their time, now we rotate back to Sorc.
I remember a time for each class when it was it's time to shine...
All but Magden. Apparently - gotta point this out -
*Magden loses the hard CC from fissure because of the lame damage + CC excuse, and at the exact same time they add more damage to a sorc (unblockable or undodgeable) hard CC....
Smh
They don’t want an AOE CC to have damage I think. Not even fear does that. Still, I didn’t have much of a problem with it that fissure needed a nerf.
Leaving it alone would have been a better choice, now what, are magdens expected to use ice or fire reach for crowd control? Wtf?0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Malamar1229 wrote: »
Or just frag stunPhoenixGrey wrote: »Murador178 wrote: »PhoenixGrey wrote: »Murador178 wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »I have ONE question for all the nervous nelly Sorcs who are asking Rune Cage to be nerfed or re-worked:
WHERE is Sorc damage supposed to be coming from in the Summerset update? Because what we have now is not enough. This isn't even in dispute, or at least it shouldn't be.
Basically, my opinion is that anything a Stam Warden should be able to kill, Mag Sorcs should be able to kill, too. Anything a Stamblade should kill in two seconds, should definitely be killable by a Sorc in the 4 seconds our burst takes to set up. Similarly, anybody a Mag DK can kill, I should be able to kill... you get the picture.
I'm not going to be happy until Sorcs reach parity with the better builds in the game... otherwise, what is the point of playing a Sorc? I don't really care where the damage comes from, it just needs to be there. In my opinion, ZOS doesn't need to be nerfing Rune Cage until an effective alternative is offered.
The change of runecage --> making a dot e.g. wouldnt need to be a nerf. It could be a nerf on max burst but should increase sorc dps with the goal of making it easier for sorc to kill sword and board tanks. Even on life my problem with sorc is normally not killing dodge spammers its more like perma blockers (since sorc damage per second isnt too high).
Sure I m ok on having an added dot to rune cage. But there is no way sorc burst is remotely close to what nightblade or warden has on live.
NB burst is very easy to evade if u know how to... warden burst is the same.
But its much easier to land and warden in this case does not need an ultimate to burst as well. Anyway that's not the point.
The point is sorc burst on live is currently not good enough. What's the point of landing a burst if it hits like a wet noodle. Rune cage is one of the options to fill that gap. I am aware its unavoidable damage but I would prefer to have something until alternatives are figured out.
Lack of burst damage to kill tankier targets is a universal problem on Live (and PTS) - you burst, they heal/shield up ad infinitum. This is nothing new.
In fact, sorc ranks pretty high when it comes to burst damage (I believe apart from a few gank builds, only stamina warden can pull off more burst damage if they land Shalks & everything).
What sorcs lack isn't burst, it's pressure - which is why regular sorc builds don't tend to do well in duels for example while pet sorcs dominate them.
...and this is exactly why they shouldn't be giving more burst to abilities like Rune Cage, but rather buff skills that would help against tank builds (or buff Rune Cage in a way that helps vs those, not vs non-tank builds that can't avoid the Rune Cage), as well as make pets more viable (i.e. smarter) in Cyrodiil.
Rune cage on live is actually really good against tanks. How? You force-drop block for a couple of seconds.
I still think major breach on frags should be a thing rather than damage on cage. All of the nightblades want cage to be a DOT so they can just suppress it with cloak. I’d rather see frags hit harder and fracture, and be able to guarantee a hit with cage:
Strange - i don´t have as much issues with tanks as i have with other sorcs.
Breach is literally useless vs shieldstacking (and the nonexistant spellresi beneath).
I like the cage dmg on pts because it finally allows sorc vs sorc (the most boring matchup in eso history) to end. For that reason i can´t find any appeal in breach on frags. It wouldn´t change anything.
You have to think about a dot on cage this way - if it´s a 6s dot (with cc immunity being 7s) nbs would have 1s where they could attack.
It should also procc blood magic which would finally be a reliable way to utilize that stupid currently useless passive.
Do no harness sorc duels, those are quick and fun. At least when frag stun was around.
A deep question @Irylia posed in the “Joys of ESO”
“What the hell is the point of streak, when people can just walk after you and keep up?”
I think that one clip makes me want to cancel my Summerset preorder...
Or the point of the stack increase when the gap closer doesn't have one....
They were *walking* after him with expedition up. I can’t link it here because Irylia is a potty mouth, but it was absolutely sickening to watch.Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »so streak gives snare/immobility immunity and rune cage needs to be a dot that can proc surge
I’d say cut the damage a bit, but TBH I’m not getting a tooltip anywhere near 9K. Making it a DOT will just allow nightblades to suppress and ignore it, which is really what they want and we all know it.
When we start taking balance advice from nightblade mains, we might as well all just re-roll stamblade.
Last question I’ll leave you all with: How much stamina/nightblade damage is delayed? Do we really need yet another delayed damage skill?
No but we need a dot that´s accessible and raises sustained dps and pressure while defensive.
I don´t really have issues with nbs - the problem is with cloak counters and that´s a seperate issue from cage being a dot or not.
^
I don’t really get sorcs that say they have problems with a cloakless nb.
Who said that? Minalan explicitly pointed towards the dot surpression of cloak.
We’re not a DOT class, if I wanted one I would run a fire enchant or flame reach. I agree that cage damage is too high currently but I don’t think 2-3K of frontloaded damage would be OP. That’s not even a light attack this patch. I’m just pointing out the irony of our invisible little ganker friends suggesting a ‘fix’ that they all have a direct counter to.
Not that it matters, if sload goes live as is, nightblade as a viable PVP class is completely finished. Done for. Everyone is going to run it, it has like 90% uptime, and oblivion damage DOTs can’t be suppressed by cloak. Stick 20% in thaumaturge and the dot ticks for 1K six times.
Which is kinda the point I think.
NBs have had their time, now we rotate back to Sorc.
I remember a time for each class when it was it's time to shine...
All but Magden. Apparently - gotta point this out -
*Magden loses the hard CC from fissure because of the lame damage + CC excuse, and at the exact same time they add more damage to a sorc (unblockable or undodgeable) hard CC....
Smh
They don’t want an AOE CC to have damage I think. Not even fear does that. Still, I didn’t have much of a problem with it that fissure needed a nerf.
Leaving it alone would have been a better choice, now what, are magdens expected to use ice or fire reach for crowd control? Wtf?
Except leap - it's an ult I know
Well also meteor
And atronach
But still....1 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »Murador178 wrote: »PhoenixGrey wrote: »Murador178 wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »I have ONE question for all the nervous nelly Sorcs who are asking Rune Cage to be nerfed or re-worked:
WHERE is Sorc damage supposed to be coming from in the Summerset update? Because what we have now is not enough. This isn't even in dispute, or at least it shouldn't be.
Basically, my opinion is that anything a Stam Warden should be able to kill, Mag Sorcs should be able to kill, too. Anything a Stamblade should kill in two seconds, should definitely be killable by a Sorc in the 4 seconds our burst takes to set up. Similarly, anybody a Mag DK can kill, I should be able to kill... you get the picture.
I'm not going to be happy until Sorcs reach parity with the better builds in the game... otherwise, what is the point of playing a Sorc? I don't really care where the damage comes from, it just needs to be there. In my opinion, ZOS doesn't need to be nerfing Rune Cage until an effective alternative is offered.
The change of runecage --> making a dot e.g. wouldnt need to be a nerf. It could be a nerf on max burst but should increase sorc dps with the goal of making it easier for sorc to kill sword and board tanks. Even on life my problem with sorc is normally not killing dodge spammers its more like perma blockers (since sorc damage per second isnt too high).
Sure I m ok on having an added dot to rune cage. But there is no way sorc burst is remotely close to what nightblade or warden has on live.
NB burst is very easy to evade if u know how to... warden burst is the same.
But its much easier to land and warden in this case does not need an ultimate to burst as well. Anyway that's not the point.
The point is sorc burst on live is currently not good enough. What's the point of landing a burst if it hits like a wet noodle. Rune cage is one of the options to fill that gap. I am aware its unavoidable damage but I would prefer to have something until alternatives are figured out.
Lack of burst damage to kill tankier targets is a universal problem on Live (and PTS) - you burst, they heal/shield up ad infinitum. This is nothing new.
In fact, sorc ranks pretty high when it comes to burst damage (I believe apart from a few gank builds, only stamina warden can pull off more burst damage if they land Shalks & everything).
What sorcs lack isn't burst, it's pressure - which is why regular sorc builds don't tend to do well in duels for example while pet sorcs dominate them.
...and this is exactly why they shouldn't be giving more burst to abilities like Rune Cage, but rather buff skills that would help against tank builds (or buff Rune Cage in a way that helps vs those, not vs non-tank builds that can't avoid the Rune Cage), as well as make pets more viable (i.e. smarter) in Cyrodiil.
Rune cage on live is actually really good against tanks. How? You force-drop block for a couple of seconds.
I still think major breach on frags should be a thing rather than damage on cage. All of the nightblades want cage to be a DOT so they can just suppress it with cloak. I’d rather see frags hit harder and fracture, and be able to guarantee a hit with cage:
Strange - i don´t have as much issues with tanks as i have with other sorcs.
Breach is literally useless vs shieldstacking (and the nonexistant spellresi beneath).
I like the cage dmg on pts because it finally allows sorc vs sorc (the most boring matchup in eso history) to end. For that reason i can´t find any appeal in breach on frags. It wouldn´t change anything.
You have to think about a dot on cage this way - if it´s a 6s dot (with cc immunity being 7s) nbs would have 1s where they could attack.
It should also procc blood magic which would finally be a reliable way to utilize that stupid currently useless passive.
Don’t duel sorc v sorc with harness. Those are quick and fun. At least when frag stun was around.
Can´t tell the tryhard openworld sorc tell to deslot harness after their raidmates stopped chasing though
For that reason i prefer to duel with against harness aswell - haven´t used it myself for a long time but do now bc without groupplay is asinine.
No point in altering the matchup to a state that doesn´t reflect open world encounters in the slightest.
Also being used to playing without harness puts you at a huge advantage.
I’ll de-slot harness as soon as they fix some of the truly ridiculous issues with Sorc sustain and mobility. Our costs are high! We’re not as mobile as any stamina class. Snare snare snare snare snare...
I mean, if they killed off shield stacking and added some snare removal and an extra protection buff to boundless, I think we’d be set.
As much as I hate the amount of defense sorcs have it's kinda needed. But why is streak not enough for you to get around? Like I'd trade shade for streak in a heartbeat.
A different issue is the amount of sustain harness provides. It's pretty stupid but sorcs are pretty much 100% required to use it due to the sustain changes. Next patch they might be able to ditch Flame reach as a spammableFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Or just frag stunPhoenixGrey wrote: »Murador178 wrote: »PhoenixGrey wrote: »Murador178 wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »I have ONE question for all the nervous nelly Sorcs who are asking Rune Cage to be nerfed or re-worked:
WHERE is Sorc damage supposed to be coming from in the Summerset update? Because what we have now is not enough. This isn't even in dispute, or at least it shouldn't be.
Basically, my opinion is that anything a Stam Warden should be able to kill, Mag Sorcs should be able to kill, too. Anything a Stamblade should kill in two seconds, should definitely be killable by a Sorc in the 4 seconds our burst takes to set up. Similarly, anybody a Mag DK can kill, I should be able to kill... you get the picture.
I'm not going to be happy until Sorcs reach parity with the better builds in the game... otherwise, what is the point of playing a Sorc? I don't really care where the damage comes from, it just needs to be there. In my opinion, ZOS doesn't need to be nerfing Rune Cage until an effective alternative is offered.
The change of runecage --> making a dot e.g. wouldnt need to be a nerf. It could be a nerf on max burst but should increase sorc dps with the goal of making it easier for sorc to kill sword and board tanks. Even on life my problem with sorc is normally not killing dodge spammers its more like perma blockers (since sorc damage per second isnt too high).
Sure I m ok on having an added dot to rune cage. But there is no way sorc burst is remotely close to what nightblade or warden has on live.
NB burst is very easy to evade if u know how to... warden burst is the same.
But its much easier to land and warden in this case does not need an ultimate to burst as well. Anyway that's not the point.
The point is sorc burst on live is currently not good enough. What's the point of landing a burst if it hits like a wet noodle. Rune cage is one of the options to fill that gap. I am aware its unavoidable damage but I would prefer to have something until alternatives are figured out.
Lack of burst damage to kill tankier targets is a universal problem on Live (and PTS) - you burst, they heal/shield up ad infinitum. This is nothing new.
In fact, sorc ranks pretty high when it comes to burst damage (I believe apart from a few gank builds, only stamina warden can pull off more burst damage if they land Shalks & everything).
What sorcs lack isn't burst, it's pressure - which is why regular sorc builds don't tend to do well in duels for example while pet sorcs dominate them.
...and this is exactly why they shouldn't be giving more burst to abilities like Rune Cage, but rather buff skills that would help against tank builds (or buff Rune Cage in a way that helps vs those, not vs non-tank builds that can't avoid the Rune Cage), as well as make pets more viable (i.e. smarter) in Cyrodiil.
Rune cage on live is actually really good against tanks. How? You force-drop block for a couple of seconds.
I still think major breach on frags should be a thing rather than damage on cage. All of the nightblades want cage to be a DOT so they can just suppress it with cloak. I’d rather see frags hit harder and fracture, and be able to guarantee a hit with cage:
Strange - i don´t have as much issues with tanks as i have with other sorcs.
Breach is literally useless vs shieldstacking (and the nonexistant spellresi beneath).
I like the cage dmg on pts because it finally allows sorc vs sorc (the most boring matchup in eso history) to end. For that reason i can´t find any appeal in breach on frags. It wouldn´t change anything.
You have to think about a dot on cage this way - if it´s a 6s dot (with cc immunity being 7s) nbs would have 1s where they could attack.
It should also procc blood magic which would finally be a reliable way to utilize that stupid currently useless passive.
Do no harness sorc duels, those are quick and fun. At least when frag stun was around.
A deep question @Irylia posed in the “Joys of ESO”
“What the hell is the point of streak, when people can just walk after you and keep up?”
I think that one clip makes me want to cancel my Summerset preorder...
Streak needs a small buff, imo.
Make it so that when the ball of lightning is hit by a projectile it refunds it’s stacking cost increase (like only the increase not the full cost) and increase the damage on streak while removing its stacking cost as long as you damage someone. That sounds like a reasonable buff.
I over all agree but I'm not sure what kind of buffed. I don't really like that one since that will just make one dude go straight through an entire zerg stunning them non stop (would be funny to watch though). Maybe reduce the stacking cost by 5% or reduce the base?Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No RC changes in 4.0.3, I don’t know what to say.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭No RC changes in 4.0.3, I don’t know what to say.
I do: better think of arguments to write in a future thread just like this next pts in a few months when wrobel comes with the nerf hammer. Until then rejoice what all forums sorcs ever wanted: complete and utter dominance, at least in duels and small scale.3