PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer Balance

Murador178 · May 2018

Derra wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Meta sorc will have tons o pressure.

Meta sorc will have tons o burst

Meta sorc:

monster set: Zaan or Skoria or Craw

Full set options: Caluurion, Sload, or Winterborn

Meta sorc A:

Wrath, Curse, Imbue, Hardened Ward, Pulse/Reach Ult Meteor/Atro/dbos

Surge, Streak/Boundless, Dampen/Absorb, Healing Ward, Cage Ult: Panacea

Cal, Sload, Skoria

Meta sorc B

Wrath, Curse, Blockade, H ward, Reach ult Meteor

Surge, Streak, Healing Ward, Dampen, Cage ult panacea

(Frost staff) Caluurion/Sload, Winterborn, Zaan

Meta Sorc C

Overload build (work in progress?)

Imo

All those builds are lowish magica - with the dmg increases across the board i´d not be too worried about those. They die relatively easy on pts.

People complain about necro shackle + shadowrend or necro pet setups on pts.

Still don´t believe runecage will hit live without change.

Have you fought murador’s pet sorc with Calu and zaan? it has more than enough damage hahahaha

Have you fought any magica class with caluu and zaan? It´s not better on mDK or NB.
Which leads to the argument: Is sorc problematic in that case or are the sets?

Waffennacht wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Meta sorc will have tons o pressure.

Meta sorc will have tons o burst

Meta sorc:

monster set: Zaan or Skoria or Craw

Full set options: Caluurion, Sload, or Winterborn

Meta sorc A:

Wrath, Curse, Imbue, Hardened Ward, Pulse/Reach Ult Meteor/Atro/dbos

Surge, Streak/Boundless, Dampen/Absorb, Healing Ward, Cage Ult: Panacea

Cal, Sload, Skoria

Meta sorc B

Wrath, Curse, Blockade, H ward, Reach ult Meteor

Surge, Streak, Healing Ward, Dampen, Cage ult panacea

(Frost staff) Caluurion/Sload, Winterborn, Zaan

Meta Sorc C

Overload build (work in progress?)

Imo

All those builds are lowish magica - with the dmg increases across the board i´d not be too worried about those. They die relatively easy on pts.

People complain about necro shackle + shadowrend or necro pet setups on pts.

Still don´t believe runecage will hit live without change.

Have you fought murador’s pet sorc with Calu and zaan? it has more than enough damage hahahaha

@derra was saying the defensive of the builds are low, not the damage. Which is why I wonder the context. In CP open world, insta gib is prone to happen with these builds I absolutely agree. But in a duel or BGs, I don't see it being an issue

In duels maximum offense with bare minimum of sustain will loose to less offense with more def (shadowrend, riposte) and the same sustain - as def scales better than offense.
It also comes down to playerskill and experience with the class - most people eventually get stuck in a vicious cicle of recasting shields and all offense they have does not matter because they´re not able to create offensive windows (especially when they start ccing defensively - which is prone to happen with cage) Imo (that´s just my personal experience from dueling on sorc).

@Subversus taking my troll build as a reference is not fair for sorcerer balance. And i mostly fought with shackle+necro+shadowrend - with 1 regen glpyh and an infused stamina return glyph. I rly want to test that setup in openworld. Stam and stam regen is high magicka(1.9k mregen unbuffed) aswell. So shadowrend will prob attack the wrong opponent

.

Rune cage needs a change so it doesnt add to the burst combo - rest is fine imo.
Its for sure alot more fun then spamming reach, applying curse and w8ing for frags(the meta 3 button sorc in duels on life servers).

Things like sloads are even more annoying for a medium armor build. With sorc and mutagen u can atleast survive one sloads, so its quite annoying. Since sloads is over viper tooltip and oblivion dmg - permabreaks cloak, goes through shields, cant be purged its a bigger issue then the cage ever will be. Especially if 2 guys in that pug zerg get it applied on u - ur done.

And even so sloads is alot more broken then calurion and zaan - these sets need some changes aswell. Viper had a 8k tooltip and got hated like crazy while calurion is at 18k. I think we dont need to talk about zaan.

Waffennacht · May 2018

Murador178 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Meta sorc will have tons o pressure.

Meta sorc will have tons o burst

Meta sorc:

monster set: Zaan or Skoria or Craw

Full set options: Caluurion, Sload, or Winterborn

Meta sorc A:

Wrath, Curse, Imbue, Hardened Ward, Pulse/Reach Ult Meteor/Atro/dbos

Surge, Streak/Boundless, Dampen/Absorb, Healing Ward, Cage Ult: Panacea

Cal, Sload, Skoria

Meta sorc B

Wrath, Curse, Blockade, H ward, Reach ult Meteor

Surge, Streak, Healing Ward, Dampen, Cage ult panacea

(Frost staff) Caluurion/Sload, Winterborn, Zaan

Meta Sorc C

Overload build (work in progress?)

Imo

All those builds are lowish magica - with the dmg increases across the board i´d not be too worried about those. They die relatively easy on pts.

People complain about necro shackle + shadowrend or necro pet setups on pts.

Still don´t believe runecage will hit live without change.

Have you fought murador’s pet sorc with Calu and zaan? it has more than enough damage hahahaha

Have you fought any magica class with caluu and zaan? It´s not better on mDK or NB.
Which leads to the argument: Is sorc problematic in that case or are the sets?

Waffennacht wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Meta sorc will have tons o pressure.

Meta sorc will have tons o burst

Meta sorc:

monster set: Zaan or Skoria or Craw

Full set options: Caluurion, Sload, or Winterborn

Meta sorc A:

Wrath, Curse, Imbue, Hardened Ward, Pulse/Reach Ult Meteor/Atro/dbos

Surge, Streak/Boundless, Dampen/Absorb, Healing Ward, Cage Ult: Panacea

Cal, Sload, Skoria

Meta sorc B

Wrath, Curse, Blockade, H ward, Reach ult Meteor

Surge, Streak, Healing Ward, Dampen, Cage ult panacea

(Frost staff) Caluurion/Sload, Winterborn, Zaan

Meta Sorc C

Overload build (work in progress?)

Imo

All those builds are lowish magica - with the dmg increases across the board i´d not be too worried about those. They die relatively easy on pts.

People complain about necro shackle + shadowrend or necro pet setups on pts.

Still don´t believe runecage will hit live without change.

Have you fought murador’s pet sorc with Calu and zaan? it has more than enough damage hahahaha

@derra was saying the defensive of the builds are low, not the damage. Which is why I wonder the context. In CP open world, insta gib is prone to happen with these builds I absolutely agree. But in a duel or BGs, I don't see it being an issue

In duels maximum offense with bare minimum of sustain will loose to less offense with more def (shadowrend, riposte) and the same sustain - as def scales better than offense.
It also comes down to playerskill and experience with the class - most people eventually get stuck in a vicious cicle of recasting shields and all offense they have does not matter because they´re not able to create offensive windows (especially when they start ccing defensively - which is prone to happen with cage) Imo (that´s just my personal experience from dueling on sorc).

@Subversus taking my troll build as a reference is not fair for sorcerer balance. And i mostly fought with shackle+necro+shadowrend - with 1 regen glpyh and an infused stamina return glyph. I rly want to test that setup in openworld. Stam and stam regen is high magicka(1.9k mregen unbuffed) aswell. So shadowrend will prob attack the wrong opponent .

Rune cage needs a change so it doesnt add to the burst combo - rest is fine imo.
Its for sure alot more fun then spamming reach, applying curse and w8ing for frags(the meta 3 button sorc in duels on life servers).

Things like sloads are even more annoying for a medium armor build. With sorc and mutagen u can atleast survive one sloads, so its quite annoying. Since sloads is over viper tooltip and oblivion dmg - permabreaks cloak, goes through shields, cant be purged its a bigger issue then the cage ever will be. Especially if 2 guys in that pug zerg get it applied on u - ur done.

And even so sloads is alot more broken then calurion and zaan - these sets need some changes aswell. Viper had a 8k tooltip and got hated like crazy while calurion is at 18k. I think we dont need to talk about zaan.

I have them all waiting.... Just waiting for the 5th

Subversus · May 2018

Murador178 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Meta sorc will have tons o pressure.

Meta sorc will have tons o burst

Meta sorc:

monster set: Zaan or Skoria or Craw

Full set options: Caluurion, Sload, or Winterborn

Meta sorc A:

Wrath, Curse, Imbue, Hardened Ward, Pulse/Reach Ult Meteor/Atro/dbos

Surge, Streak/Boundless, Dampen/Absorb, Healing Ward, Cage Ult: Panacea

Cal, Sload, Skoria

Meta sorc B

Wrath, Curse, Blockade, H ward, Reach ult Meteor

Surge, Streak, Healing Ward, Dampen, Cage ult panacea

(Frost staff) Caluurion/Sload, Winterborn, Zaan

Meta Sorc C

Overload build (work in progress?)

Imo

All those builds are lowish magica - with the dmg increases across the board i´d not be too worried about those. They die relatively easy on pts.

People complain about necro shackle + shadowrend or necro pet setups on pts.

Still don´t believe runecage will hit live without change.

Have you fought murador’s pet sorc with Calu and zaan? it has more than enough damage hahahaha

Have you fought any magica class with caluu and zaan? It´s not better on mDK or NB.
Which leads to the argument: Is sorc problematic in that case or are the sets?

Waffennacht wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Meta sorc will have tons o pressure.

Meta sorc will have tons o burst

Meta sorc:

monster set: Zaan or Skoria or Craw

Full set options: Caluurion, Sload, or Winterborn

Meta sorc A:

Wrath, Curse, Imbue, Hardened Ward, Pulse/Reach Ult Meteor/Atro/dbos

Surge, Streak/Boundless, Dampen/Absorb, Healing Ward, Cage Ult: Panacea

Cal, Sload, Skoria

Meta sorc B

Wrath, Curse, Blockade, H ward, Reach ult Meteor

Surge, Streak, Healing Ward, Dampen, Cage ult panacea

(Frost staff) Caluurion/Sload, Winterborn, Zaan

Meta Sorc C

Overload build (work in progress?)

Imo

All those builds are lowish magica - with the dmg increases across the board i´d not be too worried about those. They die relatively easy on pts.

People complain about necro shackle + shadowrend or necro pet setups on pts.

Still don´t believe runecage will hit live without change.

Have you fought murador’s pet sorc with Calu and zaan? it has more than enough damage hahahaha

@derra was saying the defensive of the builds are low, not the damage. Which is why I wonder the context. In CP open world, insta gib is prone to happen with these builds I absolutely agree. But in a duel or BGs, I don't see it being an issue

In duels maximum offense with bare minimum of sustain will loose to less offense with more def (shadowrend, riposte) and the same sustain - as def scales better than offense.
It also comes down to playerskill and experience with the class - most people eventually get stuck in a vicious cicle of recasting shields and all offense they have does not matter because they´re not able to create offensive windows (especially when they start ccing defensively - which is prone to happen with cage) Imo (that´s just my personal experience from dueling on sorc).

@Subversus taking my troll build as a reference is not fair for sorcerer balance. And i mostly fought with shackle+necro+shadowrend - with 1 regen glpyh and an infused stamina return glyph. I rly want to test that setup in openworld. Stam and stam regen is high magicka(1.9k mregen unbuffed) aswell. So shadowrend will prob attack the wrong opponent .

Rune cage needs a change so it doesnt add to the burst combo - rest is fine imo.
Its for sure alot more fun then spamming reach, applying curse and w8ing for frags(the meta 3 button sorc in duels on life servers).

Things like sloads are even more annoying for a medium armor build. With sorc and mutagen u can atleast survive one sloads, so its quite annoying. Since sloads is over viper tooltip and oblivion dmg - permabreaks cloak, goes through shields, cant be purged its a bigger issue then the cage ever will be. Especially if 2 guys in that pug zerg get it applied on u - ur done.

And even so sloads is alot more broken then calurion and zaan - these sets need some changes aswell. Viper had a 8k tooltip and got hated like crazy while calurion is at 18k. I think we dont need to talk about zaan.

I didn’t take your proc build as reference, I took it as a reply to derra’s comment where he stated that your build is bad - it isn’t. Queue for one single BG match on live and you’ll see it filled with builds like yours.

I took the shadowrend build as an example, and it is plenty strong open world. You don’t need shadowrend to do damage, you can use it to proc necro. Sorcs have been living without a 2p set since homestead, they’ll manage now.

Rune cage needs a big damage nerf. I’m fine with it adding damage to the burst, but it should be minuscule at best. This comes from someone who’s been playing sorc long before this patch and will probably play it long after, just for the record.

Derra · May 2018

Subversus wrote: »

Murador178 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Meta sorc will have tons o pressure.

Meta sorc will have tons o burst

Meta sorc:

monster set: Zaan or Skoria or Craw

Full set options: Caluurion, Sload, or Winterborn

Meta sorc A:

Wrath, Curse, Imbue, Hardened Ward, Pulse/Reach Ult Meteor/Atro/dbos

Surge, Streak/Boundless, Dampen/Absorb, Healing Ward, Cage Ult: Panacea

Cal, Sload, Skoria

Meta sorc B

Wrath, Curse, Blockade, H ward, Reach ult Meteor

Surge, Streak, Healing Ward, Dampen, Cage ult panacea

(Frost staff) Caluurion/Sload, Winterborn, Zaan

Meta Sorc C

Overload build (work in progress?)

Imo

All those builds are lowish magica - with the dmg increases across the board i´d not be too worried about those. They die relatively easy on pts.

People complain about necro shackle + shadowrend or necro pet setups on pts.

Still don´t believe runecage will hit live without change.

Have you fought murador’s pet sorc with Calu and zaan? it has more than enough damage hahahaha

Have you fought any magica class with caluu and zaan? It´s not better on mDK or NB.
Which leads to the argument: Is sorc problematic in that case or are the sets?

Waffennacht wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Meta sorc will have tons o pressure.

Meta sorc will have tons o burst

Meta sorc:

monster set: Zaan or Skoria or Craw

Full set options: Caluurion, Sload, or Winterborn

Meta sorc A:

Wrath, Curse, Imbue, Hardened Ward, Pulse/Reach Ult Meteor/Atro/dbos

Surge, Streak/Boundless, Dampen/Absorb, Healing Ward, Cage Ult: Panacea

Cal, Sload, Skoria

Meta sorc B

Wrath, Curse, Blockade, H ward, Reach ult Meteor

Surge, Streak, Healing Ward, Dampen, Cage ult panacea

(Frost staff) Caluurion/Sload, Winterborn, Zaan

Meta Sorc C

Overload build (work in progress?)

Imo

All those builds are lowish magica - with the dmg increases across the board i´d not be too worried about those. They die relatively easy on pts.

People complain about necro shackle + shadowrend or necro pet setups on pts.

Still don´t believe runecage will hit live without change.

Have you fought murador’s pet sorc with Calu and zaan? it has more than enough damage hahahaha

@derra was saying the defensive of the builds are low, not the damage. Which is why I wonder the context. In CP open world, insta gib is prone to happen with these builds I absolutely agree. But in a duel or BGs, I don't see it being an issue

In duels maximum offense with bare minimum of sustain will loose to less offense with more def (shadowrend, riposte) and the same sustain - as def scales better than offense.
It also comes down to playerskill and experience with the class - most people eventually get stuck in a vicious cicle of recasting shields and all offense they have does not matter because they´re not able to create offensive windows (especially when they start ccing defensively - which is prone to happen with cage) Imo (that´s just my personal experience from dueling on sorc).

@Subversus taking my troll build as a reference is not fair for sorcerer balance. And i mostly fought with shackle+necro+shadowrend - with 1 regen glpyh and an infused stamina return glyph. I rly want to test that setup in openworld. Stam and stam regen is high magicka(1.9k mregen unbuffed) aswell. So shadowrend will prob attack the wrong opponent .

Rune cage needs a change so it doesnt add to the burst combo - rest is fine imo.
Its for sure alot more fun then spamming reach, applying curse and w8ing for frags(the meta 3 button sorc in duels on life servers).

Things like sloads are even more annoying for a medium armor build. With sorc and mutagen u can atleast survive one sloads, so its quite annoying. Since sloads is over viper tooltip and oblivion dmg - permabreaks cloak, goes through shields, cant be purged its a bigger issue then the cage ever will be. Especially if 2 guys in that pug zerg get it applied on u - ur done.

And even so sloads is alot more broken then calurion and zaan - these sets need some changes aswell. Viper had a 8k tooltip and got hated like crazy while calurion is at 18k. I think we dont need to talk about zaan.

I didn’t take your proc build as reference, I took it as a reply to derra’s comment where he stated that your build is bad - it isn’t. Queue for one single BG match on live and you’ll see it filled with builds like yours.

Which is why i posed the question: Is runecage the problem or caluurion and zaan.
Since i think they´re pretty broken on DK and NB aswell i´m kinda inclined to go with the latter option.

Joy_Division · May 2018

Subversus wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Meta sorc will have tons o pressure.

Meta sorc will have tons o burst

Meta sorc:

monster set: Zaan or Skoria or Craw

Full set options: Caluurion, Sload, or Winterborn

Meta sorc A:

Wrath, Curse, Imbue, Hardened Ward, Pulse/Reach Ult Meteor/Atro/dbos

Surge, Streak/Boundless, Dampen/Absorb, Healing Ward, Cage Ult: Panacea

Cal, Sload, Skoria

Meta sorc B

Wrath, Curse, Blockade, H ward, Reach ult Meteor

Surge, Streak, Healing Ward, Dampen, Cage ult panacea

(Frost staff) Caluurion/Sload, Winterborn, Zaan

Meta Sorc C

Overload build (work in progress?)

Imo

All those builds are lowish magica - with the dmg increases across the board i´d not be too worried about those. They die relatively easy on pts.

People complain about necro shackle + shadowrend or necro pet setups on pts.

Still don´t believe runecage will hit live without change.

Have you fought murador’s pet sorc with Calu and zaan? it has more than enough damage hahahaha

Seriously, stop posting unviable open world builds.

This is like saying, red mountain was hitting hard before in no cp so sorc is awesome.

If u wait through ur zaan proc in open world on a sorc u will get cc'd and bursted to death by a bunch of people. Calu proc will work against you against a wing spammer.

Seriously, pull your head out of your ass and get on the pts and try playing Magicka Sorcerer. You’re out here talking out of your ass while I am wiping the floor with everything non sorc on the pts on a build with 14k stam and 900 stam regen.

The proc build was just an example. Lmfao.

I may have missed an early posting from you, but what would you suggest should happen to sorcs this PTS such that they won't wipe the floow with everything, yet be more compelling to play than what is on Live right now?

Murador178 · May 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Meta sorc will have tons o pressure.

Meta sorc will have tons o burst

Meta sorc:

monster set: Zaan or Skoria or Craw

Full set options: Caluurion, Sload, or Winterborn

Meta sorc A:

Wrath, Curse, Imbue, Hardened Ward, Pulse/Reach Ult Meteor/Atro/dbos

Surge, Streak/Boundless, Dampen/Absorb, Healing Ward, Cage Ult: Panacea

Cal, Sload, Skoria

Meta sorc B

Wrath, Curse, Blockade, H ward, Reach ult Meteor

Surge, Streak, Healing Ward, Dampen, Cage ult panacea

(Frost staff) Caluurion/Sload, Winterborn, Zaan

Meta Sorc C

Overload build (work in progress?)

Imo

All those builds are lowish magica - with the dmg increases across the board i´d not be too worried about those. They die relatively easy on pts.

People complain about necro shackle + shadowrend or necro pet setups on pts.

Still don´t believe runecage will hit live without change.

Have you fought murador’s pet sorc with Calu and zaan? it has more than enough damage hahahaha

Seriously, stop posting unviable open world builds.

This is like saying, red mountain was hitting hard before in no cp so sorc is awesome.

If u wait through ur zaan proc in open world on a sorc u will get cc'd and bursted to death by a bunch of people. Calu proc will work against you against a wing spammer.

Seriously, pull your head out of your ass and get on the pts and try playing Magicka Sorcerer. You’re out here talking out of your ass while I am wiping the floor with everything non sorc on the pts on a build with 14k stam and 900 stam regen.

The proc build was just an example. Lmfao.

I may have missed an early posting from you, but what would you suggest should happen to sorcs this PTS such that they won't wipe the floow with everything, yet be more compelling to play than what is on Live right now?

I think u cant purge sloads @Joy_Division - did u test it yet?

@Derra but with sorc that Zaan and calurion hits - u got runecage for that.

Derra · May 2018

Murador178 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Meta sorc will have tons o pressure.

Meta sorc will have tons o burst

Meta sorc:

monster set: Zaan or Skoria or Craw

Full set options: Caluurion, Sload, or Winterborn

Meta sorc A:

Wrath, Curse, Imbue, Hardened Ward, Pulse/Reach Ult Meteor/Atro/dbos

Surge, Streak/Boundless, Dampen/Absorb, Healing Ward, Cage Ult: Panacea

Cal, Sload, Skoria

Meta sorc B

Wrath, Curse, Blockade, H ward, Reach ult Meteor

Surge, Streak, Healing Ward, Dampen, Cage ult panacea

(Frost staff) Caluurion/Sload, Winterborn, Zaan

Meta Sorc C

Overload build (work in progress?)

Imo

All those builds are lowish magica - with the dmg increases across the board i´d not be too worried about those. They die relatively easy on pts.

People complain about necro shackle + shadowrend or necro pet setups on pts.

Still don´t believe runecage will hit live without change.

Have you fought murador’s pet sorc with Calu and zaan? it has more than enough damage hahahaha

Seriously, stop posting unviable open world builds.

This is like saying, red mountain was hitting hard before in no cp so sorc is awesome.

If u wait through ur zaan proc in open world on a sorc u will get cc'd and bursted to death by a bunch of people. Calu proc will work against you against a wing spammer.

Seriously, pull your head out of your ass and get on the pts and try playing Magicka Sorcerer. You’re out here talking out of your ass while I am wiping the floor with everything non sorc on the pts on a build with 14k stam and 900 stam regen.

The proc build was just an example. Lmfao.

I may have missed an early posting from you, but what would you suggest should happen to sorcs this PTS such that they won't wipe the floow with everything, yet be more compelling to play than what is on Live right now?

I think u cant purge sloads @Joy_Division - did u test it yet?

@Derra but with sorc that Zaan and calurion hits - u got runecage for that.

on nb and dk it hits just the same with fear and petrify.

Murador178 · May 2018

Derra wrote: »

Murador178 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Meta sorc will have tons o pressure.

Meta sorc will have tons o burst

Meta sorc:

monster set: Zaan or Skoria or Craw

Full set options: Caluurion, Sload, or Winterborn

Meta sorc A:

Wrath, Curse, Imbue, Hardened Ward, Pulse/Reach Ult Meteor/Atro/dbos

Surge, Streak/Boundless, Dampen/Absorb, Healing Ward, Cage Ult: Panacea

Cal, Sload, Skoria

Meta sorc B

Wrath, Curse, Blockade, H ward, Reach ult Meteor

Surge, Streak, Healing Ward, Dampen, Cage ult panacea

(Frost staff) Caluurion/Sload, Winterborn, Zaan

Meta Sorc C

Overload build (work in progress?)

Imo

All those builds are lowish magica - with the dmg increases across the board i´d not be too worried about those. They die relatively easy on pts.

People complain about necro shackle + shadowrend or necro pet setups on pts.

Still don´t believe runecage will hit live without change.

Have you fought murador’s pet sorc with Calu and zaan? it has more than enough damage hahahaha

Seriously, stop posting unviable open world builds.

This is like saying, red mountain was hitting hard before in no cp so sorc is awesome.

If u wait through ur zaan proc in open world on a sorc u will get cc'd and bursted to death by a bunch of people. Calu proc will work against you against a wing spammer.

Seriously, pull your head out of your ass and get on the pts and try playing Magicka Sorcerer. You’re out here talking out of your ass while I am wiping the floor with everything non sorc on the pts on a build with 14k stam and 900 stam regen.

The proc build was just an example. Lmfao.

I may have missed an early posting from you, but what would you suggest should happen to sorcs this PTS such that they won't wipe the floow with everything, yet be more compelling to play than what is on Live right now?

I think u cant purge sloads @Joy_Division - did u test it yet?

@Derra but with sorc that Zaan and calurion hits - u got runecage for that.

on nb and dk it hits just the same with fear and petrify.

but fear does zero dmg

- not like a weave.

So we can agree to change the sets and not sorc

.

Subversus · May 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Meta sorc will have tons o pressure.

Meta sorc will have tons o burst

Meta sorc:

monster set: Zaan or Skoria or Craw

Full set options: Caluurion, Sload, or Winterborn

Meta sorc A:

Wrath, Curse, Imbue, Hardened Ward, Pulse/Reach Ult Meteor/Atro/dbos

Surge, Streak/Boundless, Dampen/Absorb, Healing Ward, Cage Ult: Panacea

Cal, Sload, Skoria

Meta sorc B

Wrath, Curse, Blockade, H ward, Reach ult Meteor

Surge, Streak, Healing Ward, Dampen, Cage ult panacea

(Frost staff) Caluurion/Sload, Winterborn, Zaan

Meta Sorc C

Overload build (work in progress?)

Imo

All those builds are lowish magica - with the dmg increases across the board i´d not be too worried about those. They die relatively easy on pts.

People complain about necro shackle + shadowrend or necro pet setups on pts.

Still don´t believe runecage will hit live without change.

Have you fought murador’s pet sorc with Calu and zaan? it has more than enough damage hahahaha

Seriously, stop posting unviable open world builds.

This is like saying, red mountain was hitting hard before in no cp so sorc is awesome.

If u wait through ur zaan proc in open world on a sorc u will get cc'd and bursted to death by a bunch of people. Calu proc will work against you against a wing spammer.

Seriously, pull your head out of your ass and get on the pts and try playing Magicka Sorcerer. You’re out here talking out of your ass while I am wiping the floor with everything non sorc on the pts on a build with 14k stam and 900 stam regen.

The proc build was just an example. Lmfao.

I may have missed an early posting from you, but what would you suggest should happen to sorcs this PTS such that they won't wipe the floow with everything, yet be more compelling to play than what is on Live right now?

Reduce the damage done with cage or remove it's travel time completely. Cage alone adds an immense damage portion to the burst, and also makes 3 (curse, ability, ability) abilities hit without the player being able to dodge any of them.

OdinForge · May 2018

From a logical standpoint I'm not sure how we ended up with current PTS rune cage over ZOS just leaving crystal fragments alone. I get it they want high damage skills to lose their cc, and I understand why fissure is on their list. But you could block, dodge, passively dodge and even reflect frag back at the sorcerer.

But PTS rune cage is a little ridiculous, I get it that sorc mains want to be strong. I think ZOS should rethink both their change to rune cage and fragments, among other things. At the end of the day magsorc is my favorite class to play solo, even with its shortcomings on live and it certainly isn't my best class. My magsorc feels great on PTS however and I'm looking forward to next patch as of right now.

Derra · May 2018

Murador178 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Murador178 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Meta sorc will have tons o pressure.

Meta sorc will have tons o burst

Meta sorc:

monster set: Zaan or Skoria or Craw

Full set options: Caluurion, Sload, or Winterborn

Meta sorc A:

Wrath, Curse, Imbue, Hardened Ward, Pulse/Reach Ult Meteor/Atro/dbos

Surge, Streak/Boundless, Dampen/Absorb, Healing Ward, Cage Ult: Panacea

Cal, Sload, Skoria

Meta sorc B

Wrath, Curse, Blockade, H ward, Reach ult Meteor

Surge, Streak, Healing Ward, Dampen, Cage ult panacea

(Frost staff) Caluurion/Sload, Winterborn, Zaan

Meta Sorc C

Overload build (work in progress?)

Imo

All those builds are lowish magica - with the dmg increases across the board i´d not be too worried about those. They die relatively easy on pts.

People complain about necro shackle + shadowrend or necro pet setups on pts.

Still don´t believe runecage will hit live without change.

Have you fought murador’s pet sorc with Calu and zaan? it has more than enough damage hahahaha

Seriously, stop posting unviable open world builds.

This is like saying, red mountain was hitting hard before in no cp so sorc is awesome.

If u wait through ur zaan proc in open world on a sorc u will get cc'd and bursted to death by a bunch of people. Calu proc will work against you against a wing spammer.

Seriously, pull your head out of your ass and get on the pts and try playing Magicka Sorcerer. You’re out here talking out of your ass while I am wiping the floor with everything non sorc on the pts on a build with 14k stam and 900 stam regen.

The proc build was just an example. Lmfao.

I may have missed an early posting from you, but what would you suggest should happen to sorcs this PTS such that they won't wipe the floow with everything, yet be more compelling to play than what is on Live right now?

I think u cant purge sloads @Joy_Division - did u test it yet?

@Derra but with sorc that Zaan and calurion hits - u got runecage for that.

on nb and dk it hits just the same with fear and petrify.

but fear does zero dmg - not like a weave.

So we can agree to change the sets and not sorc .

I´m in favor of changing cage to a dot - i believe more unavoidable dmg on sorc is broken.

On nb you can combine it with atleast 1 good dot (should make up for cage dmg) with cripple and the best burst ability in the game + incap dmg buff.
On dk you have a million dots + elf bane probably next patch.

Subversus · May 2018

Derra wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Murador178 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Meta sorc will have tons o pressure.

Meta sorc will have tons o burst

Meta sorc:

monster set: Zaan or Skoria or Craw

Full set options: Caluurion, Sload, or Winterborn

Meta sorc A:

Wrath, Curse, Imbue, Hardened Ward, Pulse/Reach Ult Meteor/Atro/dbos

Surge, Streak/Boundless, Dampen/Absorb, Healing Ward, Cage Ult: Panacea

Cal, Sload, Skoria

Meta sorc B

Wrath, Curse, Blockade, H ward, Reach ult Meteor

Surge, Streak, Healing Ward, Dampen, Cage ult panacea

(Frost staff) Caluurion/Sload, Winterborn, Zaan

Meta Sorc C

Overload build (work in progress?)

Imo

All those builds are lowish magica - with the dmg increases across the board i´d not be too worried about those. They die relatively easy on pts.

People complain about necro shackle + shadowrend or necro pet setups on pts.

Still don´t believe runecage will hit live without change.

Have you fought murador’s pet sorc with Calu and zaan? it has more than enough damage hahahaha

Have you fought any magica class with caluu and zaan? It´s not better on mDK or NB.
Which leads to the argument: Is sorc problematic in that case or are the sets?

Waffennacht wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Meta sorc will have tons o pressure.

Meta sorc will have tons o burst

Meta sorc:

monster set: Zaan or Skoria or Craw

Full set options: Caluurion, Sload, or Winterborn

Meta sorc A:

Wrath, Curse, Imbue, Hardened Ward, Pulse/Reach Ult Meteor/Atro/dbos

Surge, Streak/Boundless, Dampen/Absorb, Healing Ward, Cage Ult: Panacea

Cal, Sload, Skoria

Meta sorc B

Wrath, Curse, Blockade, H ward, Reach ult Meteor

Surge, Streak, Healing Ward, Dampen, Cage ult panacea

(Frost staff) Caluurion/Sload, Winterborn, Zaan

Meta Sorc C

Overload build (work in progress?)

Imo

All those builds are lowish magica - with the dmg increases across the board i´d not be too worried about those. They die relatively easy on pts.

People complain about necro shackle + shadowrend or necro pet setups on pts.

Still don´t believe runecage will hit live without change.

Have you fought murador’s pet sorc with Calu and zaan? it has more than enough damage hahahaha

@derra was saying the defensive of the builds are low, not the damage. Which is why I wonder the context. In CP open world, insta gib is prone to happen with these builds I absolutely agree. But in a duel or BGs, I don't see it being an issue

In duels maximum offense with bare minimum of sustain will loose to less offense with more def (shadowrend, riposte) and the same sustain - as def scales better than offense.
It also comes down to playerskill and experience with the class - most people eventually get stuck in a vicious cicle of recasting shields and all offense they have does not matter because they´re not able to create offensive windows (especially when they start ccing defensively - which is prone to happen with cage) Imo (that´s just my personal experience from dueling on sorc).

@Subversus taking my troll build as a reference is not fair for sorcerer balance. And i mostly fought with shackle+necro+shadowrend - with 1 regen glpyh and an infused stamina return glyph. I rly want to test that setup in openworld. Stam and stam regen is high magicka(1.9k mregen unbuffed) aswell. So shadowrend will prob attack the wrong opponent .

Rune cage needs a change so it doesnt add to the burst combo - rest is fine imo.
Its for sure alot more fun then spamming reach, applying curse and w8ing for frags(the meta 3 button sorc in duels on life servers).

Things like sloads are even more annoying for a medium armor build. With sorc and mutagen u can atleast survive one sloads, so its quite annoying. Since sloads is over viper tooltip and oblivion dmg - permabreaks cloak, goes through shields, cant be purged its a bigger issue then the cage ever will be. Especially if 2 guys in that pug zerg get it applied on u - ur done.

And even so sloads is alot more broken then calurion and zaan - these sets need some changes aswell. Viper had a 8k tooltip and got hated like crazy while calurion is at 18k. I think we dont need to talk about zaan.

I didn’t take your proc build as reference, I took it as a reply to derra’s comment where he stated that your build is bad - it isn’t. Queue for one single BG match on live and you’ll see it filled with builds like yours.

Which is why i posed the question: Is runecage the problem or caluurion and zaan.
Since i think they´re pretty broken on DK and NB aswell i´m kinda inclined to go with the latter option.

Both are the problem. Proc sets are just as bad on live as they are on the pts - not much has changed. But add rune cage on top of that and it's a slaughter. There is a reason why you don't see many sorcs on live wiping the floor with everyone while using proc sets, while there are plenty on the pts.

DDuke · May 2018

Right, so this what happens to my tankier melee NB on PTS currently (24k health, 3,1k crit resistance):

https://youtu.be/NhH3-fOLMeU

Sorc on the video is using Necropotence+Shadowrend and doesn't even have the proc up (so it's a lot less damage than what there'd normally be).

Second part of the video shows me doing the Rune Cage combo on his NB (22,5k health, 5,3k crit resistance with Impregnable set).

None of that damage is avoidable by any means, you can only hope to somehow burst down sorcs through their shields before they burst you.

My PvP stats:

^
That is 7x tri-glyphs btw, already sacrificing a lot of damage on this build - which is acceptable on melee build since burst is higher anyway compared to my bow build.

Relevant CPs: 37 Elemental Defender, 66 Ironclad

Derra · May 2018

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Murador178 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Meta sorc will have tons o pressure.

Meta sorc will have tons o burst

Meta sorc:

monster set: Zaan or Skoria or Craw

Full set options: Caluurion, Sload, or Winterborn

Meta sorc A:

Wrath, Curse, Imbue, Hardened Ward, Pulse/Reach Ult Meteor/Atro/dbos

Surge, Streak/Boundless, Dampen/Absorb, Healing Ward, Cage Ult: Panacea

Cal, Sload, Skoria

Meta sorc B

Wrath, Curse, Blockade, H ward, Reach ult Meteor

Surge, Streak, Healing Ward, Dampen, Cage ult panacea

(Frost staff) Caluurion/Sload, Winterborn, Zaan

Meta Sorc C

Overload build (work in progress?)

Imo

All those builds are lowish magica - with the dmg increases across the board i´d not be too worried about those. They die relatively easy on pts.

People complain about necro shackle + shadowrend or necro pet setups on pts.

Still don´t believe runecage will hit live without change.

Have you fought murador’s pet sorc with Calu and zaan? it has more than enough damage hahahaha

Have you fought any magica class with caluu and zaan? It´s not better on mDK or NB.
Which leads to the argument: Is sorc problematic in that case or are the sets?

Waffennacht wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Meta sorc will have tons o pressure.

Meta sorc will have tons o burst

Meta sorc:

monster set: Zaan or Skoria or Craw

Full set options: Caluurion, Sload, or Winterborn

Meta sorc A:

Wrath, Curse, Imbue, Hardened Ward, Pulse/Reach Ult Meteor/Atro/dbos

Surge, Streak/Boundless, Dampen/Absorb, Healing Ward, Cage Ult: Panacea

Cal, Sload, Skoria

Meta sorc B

Wrath, Curse, Blockade, H ward, Reach ult Meteor

Surge, Streak, Healing Ward, Dampen, Cage ult panacea

(Frost staff) Caluurion/Sload, Winterborn, Zaan

Meta Sorc C

Overload build (work in progress?)

Imo

All those builds are lowish magica - with the dmg increases across the board i´d not be too worried about those. They die relatively easy on pts.

People complain about necro shackle + shadowrend or necro pet setups on pts.

Still don´t believe runecage will hit live without change.

Have you fought murador’s pet sorc with Calu and zaan? it has more than enough damage hahahaha

@derra was saying the defensive of the builds are low, not the damage. Which is why I wonder the context. In CP open world, insta gib is prone to happen with these builds I absolutely agree. But in a duel or BGs, I don't see it being an issue

In duels maximum offense with bare minimum of sustain will loose to less offense with more def (shadowrend, riposte) and the same sustain - as def scales better than offense.
It also comes down to playerskill and experience with the class - most people eventually get stuck in a vicious cicle of recasting shields and all offense they have does not matter because they´re not able to create offensive windows (especially when they start ccing defensively - which is prone to happen with cage) Imo (that´s just my personal experience from dueling on sorc).

@Subversus taking my troll build as a reference is not fair for sorcerer balance. And i mostly fought with shackle+necro+shadowrend - with 1 regen glpyh and an infused stamina return glyph. I rly want to test that setup in openworld. Stam and stam regen is high magicka(1.9k mregen unbuffed) aswell. So shadowrend will prob attack the wrong opponent .

Rune cage needs a change so it doesnt add to the burst combo - rest is fine imo.
Its for sure alot more fun then spamming reach, applying curse and w8ing for frags(the meta 3 button sorc in duels on life servers).

Things like sloads are even more annoying for a medium armor build. With sorc and mutagen u can atleast survive one sloads, so its quite annoying. Since sloads is over viper tooltip and oblivion dmg - permabreaks cloak, goes through shields, cant be purged its a bigger issue then the cage ever will be. Especially if 2 guys in that pug zerg get it applied on u - ur done.

And even so sloads is alot more broken then calurion and zaan - these sets need some changes aswell. Viper had a 8k tooltip and got hated like crazy while calurion is at 18k. I think we dont need to talk about zaan.

I didn’t take your proc build as reference, I took it as a reply to derra’s comment where he stated that your build is bad - it isn’t. Queue for one single BG match on live and you’ll see it filled with builds like yours.

Which is why i posed the question: Is runecage the problem or caluurion and zaan.
Since i think they´re pretty broken on DK and NB aswell i´m kinda inclined to go with the latter option.

Both are the problem. Proc sets are just as bad on live as they are on the pts - not much has changed. But add rune cage on top of that and it's a slaughter. There is a reason why you don't see many sorcs on live wiping the floor with everyone while using proc sets, while there are plenty on the pts.

That has also to do with the fact that these sets are bad to utilize on live. The staff=2p change helped quite a bit there.

Derra · May 2018

DDuke wrote: »

Right, so this what happens to my tankier melee NB on PTS currently (24k health, 3,1k crit resistance):
https://youtu.be/NhH3-fOLMeU

Sorc on the video is using Necropotence+Shadowrend and doesn't even have the proc up (so it's a lot less damage than what there'd normally be).

Second part of the video shows me doing the Rune Cage combo on his NB (22,5k health, 5,3k crit resistance with Impregnable set).

None of that damage is avoidable by any means, you can only hope to somehow burst down sorcs through their shields before they burst you.

My PvP stats:

^
That is 7x tri-glyphs btw, already sacrificing a lot of damage on this build - which is acceptable on melee build since burst is higher anyway compared to my bow build.

Relevant CPs: 37 Elemental Defender, 66 Ironclad

Considering there´s an 8k hit in there on supposedly correct def CP + 5500 impen you basically have to be hitting on 0 resi with 20k + tooltip on frags.

Nothing a "normal" build will see.

DDuke · May 2018

Derra wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Right, so this what happens to my tankier melee NB on PTS currently (24k health, 3,1k crit resistance):
https://youtu.be/NhH3-fOLMeU

Sorc on the video is using Necropotence+Shadowrend and doesn't even have the proc up (so it's a lot less damage than what there'd normally be).

Second part of the video shows me doing the Rune Cage combo on his NB (22,5k health, 5,3k crit resistance with Impregnable set).

None of that damage is avoidable by any means, you can only hope to somehow burst down sorcs through their shields before they burst you.

My PvP stats:

^
That is 7x tri-glyphs btw, already sacrificing a lot of damage on this build - which is acceptable on melee build since burst is higher anyway compared to my bow build.

Relevant CPs: 37 Elemental Defender, 66 Ironclad

Considering there´s an 8k hit in there on supposedly correct def CP + 5500 impen you basically have to be hitting on 0 resi with 20k + tooltip on frags.

Nothing a "normal" build will see.

Well here's a combat log from one of the tests:

*Seems I forgot execute... woops.

It isn't that hard to negate most of a medium armor build's mitigation, Elem Drain+Concentration LA Passive already reduce it by 10 164 (80% of 5/1/1 medium armor).

Minalan · May 2018

DDuke wrote: »

Right, so this what happens to my tankier melee NB on PTS currently (24k health, 3,1k crit resistance):
https://youtu.be/NhH3-fOLMeU

Sorc on the video is using Necropotence+Shadowrend and doesn't even have the proc up (so it's a lot less damage than what there'd normally be).

Second part of the video shows me doing the Rune Cage combo on his NB (22,5k health, 5,3k crit resistance with Impregnable set).

None of that damage is avoidable by any means, you can only hope to somehow burst down sorcs through their shields before they burst you.

My PvP stats:

^
That is 7x tri-glyphs btw, already sacrificing a lot of damage on this build - which is acceptable on melee build since burst is higher anyway compared to my bow build.

Relevant CPs: 37 Elemental Defender, 66 Ironclad

One issue: The original wrath is dodgeable, in a real fight that doesn’t hit. Other than that, I see your point.

Question: I see your high crit resist, is that with medium impreg?

I suppose I should also point out that this gank rotation is only slightly longer and less effective than a good bow Gank. If they nerf cage, they really need to do something about out of stealth instant death to bow ganking. Dying in two seconds is bad, can we at least agree on that?

Derra · May 2018

DDuke wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Right, so this what happens to my tankier melee NB on PTS currently (24k health, 3,1k crit resistance):
https://youtu.be/NhH3-fOLMeU

Sorc on the video is using Necropotence+Shadowrend and doesn't even have the proc up (so it's a lot less damage than what there'd normally be).

Second part of the video shows me doing the Rune Cage combo on his NB (22,5k health, 5,3k crit resistance with Impregnable set).

None of that damage is avoidable by any means, you can only hope to somehow burst down sorcs through their shields before they burst you.

My PvP stats:

^
That is 7x tri-glyphs btw, already sacrificing a lot of damage on this build - which is acceptable on melee build since burst is higher anyway compared to my bow build.

Relevant CPs: 37 Elemental Defender, 66 Ironclad

Considering there´s an 8k hit in there on supposedly correct def CP + 5500 impen you basically have to be hitting on 0 resi with 20k + tooltip on frags.

Nothing a "normal" build will see.

Well here's a combat log from one of the tests:

*Seems I forgot execute... woops.

It isn't that hard to negate most of a medium armor build's mitigation, Elem Drain+Concentration LA Passive already reduce it by 10 164 (80% of 5/1/1 medium armor).

Not arguing against that. Just stating that the dmg you setup there is unlikely to be reached on builds that run around - as showcased in the vid itself.
The dmg on the low def build is lower than on the higher defense build.

And muras setup is niche to begin with.

Murador178 · May 2018

Derra wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Right, so this what happens to my tankier melee NB on PTS currently (24k health, 3,1k crit resistance):
https://youtu.be/NhH3-fOLMeU

Sorc on the video is using Necropotence+Shadowrend and doesn't even have the proc up (so it's a lot less damage than what there'd normally be).

Second part of the video shows me doing the Rune Cage combo on his NB (22,5k health, 5,3k crit resistance with Impregnable set).

None of that damage is avoidable by any means, you can only hope to somehow burst down sorcs through their shields before they burst you.

My PvP stats:

^
That is 7x tri-glyphs btw, already sacrificing a lot of damage on this build - which is acceptable on melee build since burst is higher anyway compared to my bow build.

Relevant CPs: 37 Elemental Defender, 66 Ironclad

Considering there´s an 8k hit in there on supposedly correct def CP + 5500 impen you basically have to be hitting on 0 resi with 20k + tooltip on frags.

Nothing a "normal" build will see.

the 1st part of the video is me doing the burst: it with shadow necro shackle - WITHOUT necro 5 piece active(every decent openworld build will have more dmg). That is for sure a realistic dmg build and is on 3 k crit resist stamblade. The other one is dduke with some high dmg build (that u can easy run in a zerg group) oneshotting me with imrpeg minor maim at 5k crit resist.

Edit: Other way round - Im the first in the vid

DDuke · May 2018

Minalan wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Right, so this what happens to my tankier melee NB on PTS currently (24k health, 3,1k crit resistance):
https://youtu.be/NhH3-fOLMeU

Sorc on the video is using Necropotence+Shadowrend and doesn't even have the proc up (so it's a lot less damage than what there'd normally be).

Second part of the video shows me doing the Rune Cage combo on his NB (22,5k health, 5,3k crit resistance with Impregnable set).

None of that damage is avoidable by any means, you can only hope to somehow burst down sorcs through their shields before they burst you.

My PvP stats:

^
That is 7x tri-glyphs btw, already sacrificing a lot of damage on this build - which is acceptable on melee build since burst is higher anyway compared to my bow build.

Relevant CPs: 37 Elemental Defender, 66 Ironclad

One issue: The original wrath is dodgeable, in a real fight that doesn’t hit. Other than that, I see your point.

Land Wrath
Proceed with the combo
Profit

I'm not going to lie, I'm not able to do that consistently. My timing with is off with the skill applications & I'm sure I miss a light attack weave every now & then - I'm not exactly the most experienced magicka sorcerer.

I have little doubt however that people with 10-20 times my playtime on magicka sorc can and will easily execute these combos with consistency.

Minalan wrote: »

Question: I see your high crit resist, is that with medium impreg?

No, it's 54 points in Resistant (along with 66 Ironclad) to get Reinforced passive, which is another extra 700 "health" vs ganks & free mitigation every 10s - one of the most underrated CP passives in the game.

Minalan wrote: »

I suppose I should also point out that this gank rotation is only slightly longer and less effective than a good bow Gank. If they nerf cage, they really need to do something about out of stealth instant death to bow ganking. Dying in two seconds is bad, can we at least agree on that?

It's not a gank rotation though, just the normal sorc combo that's been around for ages - except instead of Flame Reach you use Rune Cage since it's unavoidable & guarantees everything else lands too. Not a problem on Live since Rune Cage also limits the burst by triggering GCD while dealing no damage, but different story obviously on PTS...

And yeah, one shots from stealth are of course a problem, but so is being unkillable behind shield stacks or S&B 30k health & then instahealing to full health every time someone tries to burst you... there's really no healthy medium (no pun intended) at the moment, or a way to play a stealth oriented build without it revolving around one shotting people, but that's another topic entirely.

Waffennacht · May 2018

I find the rune cage debate rather humorous actually.

They introduced a buff to distract all the Nerf threads until release.

So even if they end up not changing cage at all, sorcerer final goes through a pts without coming out the other end weaker than where they started.

Brilliant

PhoenixGrey · May 2018

Subversus wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Meta sorc will have tons o pressure.

Meta sorc will have tons o burst

Meta sorc:

monster set: Zaan or Skoria or Craw

Full set options: Caluurion, Sload, or Winterborn

Meta sorc A:

Wrath, Curse, Imbue, Hardened Ward, Pulse/Reach Ult Meteor/Atro/dbos

Surge, Streak/Boundless, Dampen/Absorb, Healing Ward, Cage Ult: Panacea

Cal, Sload, Skoria

Meta sorc B

Wrath, Curse, Blockade, H ward, Reach ult Meteor

Surge, Streak, Healing Ward, Dampen, Cage ult panacea

(Frost staff) Caluurion/Sload, Winterborn, Zaan

Meta Sorc C

Overload build (work in progress?)

Imo

All those builds are lowish magica - with the dmg increases across the board i´d not be too worried about those. They die relatively easy on pts.

People complain about necro shackle + shadowrend or necro pet setups on pts.

Still don´t believe runecage will hit live without change.

Have you fought murador’s pet sorc with Calu and zaan? it has more than enough damage hahahaha

Seriously, stop posting unviable open world builds.

This is like saying, red mountain was hitting hard before in no cp so sorc is awesome.

If u wait through ur zaan proc in open world on a sorc u will get cc'd and bursted to death by a bunch of people. Calu proc will work against you against a wing spammer.

Seriously, pull your head out of your ass and get on the pts and try playing Magicka Sorcerer. You’re out here talking out of your ass while I am wiping the floor with everything non sorc on the pts on a build with 14k stam and 900 stam regen.

The proc build was just an example. Lmfao.

You might be wiping the floor on PTS in a dueling scenario and you might be a very good at it.

I am just saying this does not mean you will wipe everyone off in cyrodil when this patch hits live. Stam classes have a choice , we are stuck with light armor if you want to be effective.

Besides I think most classes will run a little more health next patch. So that extra little bit of unblockable damage from cage which requires you to have a meteor, frag, curse and fury lined up to even be considered effective does not make much difference.

Based on my experience on live, there is no way I m killing a competent player without a meteor + cage, frag, curse combo on a dw setup because the burst ain't there. Without the meteor a typical burst would have a curse + fury + cage + frag. If the burst ain't there you need to buff something

You can't buff curse or curse stacking will demolish players. Can't buff frags because ZOS does not revert changes by principle. Maybe buff fury which will lead to a massive outrage although I personally don't think 20% is a good enough threshold. So you have just rune cage as the most likely candidate. This might tilt the scales a little bit but a 8k tooltip is ok ish.

What would you propose to buff ?
Maybe it can continue being a joke of a class spamming fury in the background. I am not cool with that.

If you ask me did sorc s get a buff? I would still say maybe because it depends on what we will be up against.

Derra · May 2018

Murador178 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Right, so this what happens to my tankier melee NB on PTS currently (24k health, 3,1k crit resistance):
https://youtu.be/NhH3-fOLMeU

Sorc on the video is using Necropotence+Shadowrend and doesn't even have the proc up (so it's a lot less damage than what there'd normally be).

Second part of the video shows me doing the Rune Cage combo on his NB (22,5k health, 5,3k crit resistance with Impregnable set).

None of that damage is avoidable by any means, you can only hope to somehow burst down sorcs through their shields before they burst you.

My PvP stats:

^
That is 7x tri-glyphs btw, already sacrificing a lot of damage on this build - which is acceptable on melee build since burst is higher anyway compared to my bow build.

Relevant CPs: 37 Elemental Defender, 66 Ironclad

Considering there´s an 8k hit in there on supposedly correct def CP + 5500 impen you basically have to be hitting on 0 resi with 20k + tooltip on frags.

Nothing a "normal" build will see.

the 1st part of the video is me doing the burst: it with shadow necro shackle - WITHOUT necro 5 piece active(every decent openworld build will have more dmg). That is for sure a realistic dmg build and is on 3 k crit resist stamblade. The other one is dduke with some high dmg build (that u can easy run in a zerg group) oneshotting me with imrpeg minor maim at 5k crit resist.

Edit: Other way round - Im the first in the vid

Which is what i stated.
Your build is dealing less dmg on less defense than decis build is.

If you have 2spd enchants + dmg mundus on necro shackle it´s most likely more than an open world build will deal still.

Derra · May 2018

One thing i´d like to see of all the NBs that do not play sorc on live yet continue raving about how OP sorc is on pts:

Post constructive feedback.

CAGE OP - plz nerf (even if you make a video of it) is not constructive and if you repeat it a 100 times you come off as someone on an agenda. Especially if you make bow gank videos instakilling people with no chance to fight back and label that as "bowbuilds finally becoming vaible".

What do you think should be changed about cage to make it more desireable than on live - but less broken than on pts?

What do you think should be changed about sorcs to make them more fun and diverse than on live but not broken (because sorc is neither diverse nor particularly fun to play on live nor particularly strong - especially compared to nb)?

How do you think the problem of having overperforming (debateable) 1v1 defense but lacking XvX should be adressed?

Biro123 · May 2018

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Meta sorc will have tons o pressure.

Meta sorc will have tons o burst

Meta sorc:

monster set: Zaan or Skoria or Craw

Full set options: Caluurion, Sload, or Winterborn

Meta sorc A:

Wrath, Curse, Imbue, Hardened Ward, Pulse/Reach Ult Meteor/Atro/dbos

Surge, Streak/Boundless, Dampen/Absorb, Healing Ward, Cage Ult: Panacea

Cal, Sload, Skoria

Meta sorc B

Wrath, Curse, Blockade, H ward, Reach ult Meteor

Surge, Streak, Healing Ward, Dampen, Cage ult panacea

(Frost staff) Caluurion/Sload, Winterborn, Zaan

Meta Sorc C

Overload build (work in progress?)

Imo

All those builds are lowish magica - with the dmg increases across the board i´d not be too worried about those. They die relatively easy on pts.

People complain about necro shackle + shadowrend or necro pet setups on pts.

Still don´t believe runecage will hit live without change.

Have you fought murador’s pet sorc with Calu and zaan? it has more than enough damage hahahaha

Seriously, stop posting unviable open world builds.

This is like saying, red mountain was hitting hard before in no cp so sorc is awesome.

If u wait through ur zaan proc in open world on a sorc u will get cc'd and bursted to death by a bunch of people. Calu proc will work against you against a wing spammer.

Seriously, pull your head out of your ass and get on the pts and try playing Magicka Sorcerer. You’re out here talking out of your ass while I am wiping the floor with everything non sorc on the pts on a build with 14k stam and 900 stam regen.

The proc build was just an example. Lmfao.

You might be wiping the floor on PTS in a dueling scenario and you might be a very good at it.

I am just saying this does not mean you will wipe everyone off in cyrodil when this patch hits live. Stam classes have a choice , we are stuck with light armor if you want to be effective.

Besides I think most classes will run a little more health next patch. So that extra little bit of unblockable damage from cage which requires you to have a meteor, frag, curse and fury lined up to even be considered effective does not make much difference.

Based on my experience on live, there is no way I m killing a competent player without a meteor + cage, frag, curse combo on a dw setup because the burst ain't there. Without the meteor a typical burst would have a curse + fury + cage + frag. If the burst ain't there you need to buff something

You can't buff curse or curse stacking will demolish players. Can't buff frags because ZOS does not revert changes by principle. Maybe buff fury which will lead to a massive outrage although I personally don't think 20% is a good enough threshold. So you have just rune cage as the most likely candidate. This might tilt the scales a little bit but a 8k tooltip is ok ish.

What would you propose to buff ?
Maybe it can continue being a joke of a class spamming fury in the background. I am not cool with that.

If you ask me did sorc s get a buff? I would still say maybe because it depends on what we will be up against.

Sadly the biggest dmg buff will be on switching to destro.

Murador178 · May 2018

Derra wrote: »

Murador178 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Right, so this what happens to my tankier melee NB on PTS currently (24k health, 3,1k crit resistance):
https://youtu.be/NhH3-fOLMeU

Sorc on the video is using Necropotence+Shadowrend and doesn't even have the proc up (so it's a lot less damage than what there'd normally be).

Second part of the video shows me doing the Rune Cage combo on his NB (22,5k health, 5,3k crit resistance with Impregnable set).

None of that damage is avoidable by any means, you can only hope to somehow burst down sorcs through their shields before they burst you.

My PvP stats:

^
That is 7x tri-glyphs btw, already sacrificing a lot of damage on this build - which is acceptable on melee build since burst is higher anyway compared to my bow build.

Relevant CPs: 37 Elemental Defender, 66 Ironclad

Considering there´s an 8k hit in there on supposedly correct def CP + 5500 impen you basically have to be hitting on 0 resi with 20k + tooltip on frags.

Nothing a "normal" build will see.

the 1st part of the video is me doing the burst: it with shadow necro shackle - WITHOUT necro 5 piece active(every decent openworld build will have more dmg). That is for sure a realistic dmg build and is on 3 k crit resist stamblade. The other one is dduke with some high dmg build (that u can easy run in a zerg group) oneshotting me with imrpeg minor maim at 5k crit resist.

Edit: Other way round - Im the first in the vid

Which is what i stated.
Your build is dealing less dmg on less defense than decis build is.

If you have 2spd enchants + dmg mundus on necro shackle it´s most likely more than an open world build will deal still.

i got 2k magicka regen +ele drain i don't see any sustain issues anywhere and I'm missing a 5 piece - my dmg seems pretty realistic imo.

@Derra I think my feedback was constructive and i rly like an idea that deci had: rune cage makes a small circle around u - if u cross it u will take the damage - so then the dmg could be higher imo. A dot would be fine aswell - the sorcerer class rly lacks on dot dmg. Thats also why its so hard on live servers to kill a tanky snb permablock player. And mSorc is by far my 2nd most played class followed my mNB.

Emma_Overload · May 2018

I have ONE question for all the nervous nelly Sorcs who are asking Rune Cage to be nerfed or re-worked:

WHERE is Sorc damage supposed to be coming from in the Summerset update? Because what we have now is not enough. This isn't even in dispute, or at least it shouldn't be.

Basically, my opinion is that anything a Stam Warden should be able to kill, Mag Sorcs should be able to kill, too. Anything a Stamblade should kill in two seconds, should definitely be killable by a Sorc in the 4 seconds our burst takes to set up. Similarly, anybody a Mag DK can kill, I should be able to kill... you get the picture.

I'm not going to be happy until Sorcs reach parity with the better builds in the game... otherwise, what is the point of playing a Sorc? I don't really care where the damage comes from, it just needs to be there. In my opinion, ZOS doesn't need to be nerfing Rune Cage until an effective alternative is offered.

Murador178 · May 2018

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I have ONE question for all the nervous nelly Sorcs who are asking Rune Cage to be nerfed or re-worked:

WHERE is Sorc damage supposed to be coming from in the Summerset update? Because what we have now is not enough. This isn't even in dispute, or at least it shouldn't be.

Basically, my opinion is that anything a Stam Warden should be able to kill, Mag Sorcs should be able to kill, too. Anything a Stamblade should kill in two seconds, should definitely be killable by a Sorc in the 4 seconds our burst takes to set up. Similarly, anybody a Mag DK can kill, I should be able to kill... you get the picture.

I'm not going to be happy until Sorcs reach parity with the better builds in the game... otherwise, what is the point of playing a Sorc? I don't really care where the damage comes from, it just needs to be there. In my opinion, ZOS doesn't need to be nerfing Rune Cage until an effective alternative is offered.

The change of runecage --> making a dot e.g. wouldnt need to be a nerf. It could be a nerf on max burst but should increase sorc dps with the goal of making it easier for sorc to kill sword and board tanks. Even on life my problem with sorc is normally not killing dodge spammers its more like perma blockers (since sorc damage per second isnt too high).

ToRelax · May 2018

Murador178 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I have ONE question for all the nervous nelly Sorcs who are asking Rune Cage to be nerfed or re-worked:

WHERE is Sorc damage supposed to be coming from in the Summerset update? Because what we have now is not enough. This isn't even in dispute, or at least it shouldn't be.

Basically, my opinion is that anything a Stam Warden should be able to kill, Mag Sorcs should be able to kill, too. Anything a Stamblade should kill in two seconds, should definitely be killable by a Sorc in the 4 seconds our burst takes to set up. Similarly, anybody a Mag DK can kill, I should be able to kill... you get the picture.

I'm not going to be happy until Sorcs reach parity with the better builds in the game... otherwise, what is the point of playing a Sorc? I don't really care where the damage comes from, it just needs to be there. In my opinion, ZOS doesn't need to be nerfing Rune Cage until an effective alternative is offered.

The change of runecage --> making a dot e.g. wouldnt need to be a nerf. It could be a nerf on max burst but should increase sorc dps with the goal of making it easier for sorc to kill sword and board tanks. Even on life my problem with sorc is normally not killing dodge spammers its more like perma blockers (since sorc damage per second isnt too high).

^This.
Also, Sorc is seriously lacking in access to healing (outside of pets) and alternatives to shields (which are mandatory for pets as well). If we had a dark magic DoT that could trigger blood magic not just on the initial cast but all ticks, it would help with both healing and pressure.

DPShiro · May 2018

I’m trying to stay informed and partake in meaningful discussions and interesting topics such as this one.
But it’s literally impossible due to the constant and endless whining from some PVP players.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Can we please have the class balance discussions separated into PVE/PVP next time?