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Crafting Bag Without ESO Plus

  • Mystrius_Archaion
    Mystrius_Archaion
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    Slick_007 wrote: »
    ooh. threats of 'i rage quit' to try to force ZOS to give non revenue users something that revenue users get.
    i dont want to pay to play your game, and if you dont give me, a freeloader, something for free, i wont play at all. This is disgusting behaviour and i pray ZOS doesnt give in.

    You know where the door is. Send me your stuff on your way out.

    And the hostile people come out of the woodwork. You are the reason people dislike coming to the forums and dislike online games in general.

    FYI, yes, I would play this game in an offline version of it if possible over associating with the worst of humanity [comment removed for naming and shaming]
    I also completely hide zone chat first thing on every character for this reason also.
    Edited by ZOS_JesC on May 1, 2018 1:26PM
    If we wanted "challenge" in City of Heroes we would solo the content. If we wanted fun we would form a random PUG the majority of the time and just "wreck face!" feeling overpowered. That was the most fun of any game I've ever played so why does no other "newer" game design that way? I guess they like players never feeling good enough and the inevitable "max level rat/worm/insect/this-shouldn't-be-a-threatening-enemy-but-it-is" effect.
  • Mystrius_Archaion
    Mystrius_Archaion
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    The crafting bag here is like the 2000 currency limit in DC Universe Online or any other game that has a pitifully low currency limit given to paying customers(yes, that is the currency limit for paying customers in DCUO, just not subbed) which is always a severely restricted gameplay experience that forces players to subscribe in a supposedly "optional" subscription game.

    This is actually where the whole issue people had with Battlefront 2 was. They were upset not just with lootboxes but the fact that they included ways to lesson a painful grind in the base game that was intentionally designed poorly to force spending because of an essential part of the game.

    We're lucky they let us pull the items out of the craft bag when ESOplus lapses. They could be like DCUO and other games and lock everything in it until you subscribe again. (Though DCUO does offer a cheaper option to unlock the currency for a short time. It still is a crap move.)


    The craft bag should have been in game from day one as something everyone got for free with purchase of the game. Crafting is a base feature of the game that becomes nearly impossible without it.

    OR, you all can come clean up my worms and regulus and ta runes and other junk I leave behind in nodes as I am cherry-picking only the good stuff in the nodes because I don't have the space to just "loot all". See how you like that being more and more common.
    If we wanted "challenge" in City of Heroes we would solo the content. If we wanted fun we would form a random PUG the majority of the time and just "wreck face!" feeling overpowered. That was the most fun of any game I've ever played so why does no other "newer" game design that way? I guess they like players never feeling good enough and the inevitable "max level rat/worm/insect/this-shouldn't-be-a-threatening-enemy-but-it-is" effect.
  • Mystrius_Archaion
    Mystrius_Archaion
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    Slick_007 wrote: »
    Sergg007 wrote: »
    i have banker and it is full, i have few alts too and it is not save me from shi*ty management. I want to play and not dig into my inventory.

    you can. you pay like the rest of us. Its a pretty stupid idea to take a big drawcard away from ESO+. then many people will stop paying for ESO+. So you want the game to lose revenue

    So that's the only reason to sub to ESOplus?
    Why do they have anything else included with ESOplus?

    Let's just take away the 1500 crowns from ESOplus and take away every other benefit except the craft bag since that is all anybody cares about.
    You can buy everything else with consumables in the crown store and buying crowns directly without any other "freebies".
    If we wanted "challenge" in City of Heroes we would solo the content. If we wanted fun we would form a random PUG the majority of the time and just "wreck face!" feeling overpowered. That was the most fun of any game I've ever played so why does no other "newer" game design that way? I guess they like players never feeling good enough and the inevitable "max level rat/worm/insect/this-shouldn't-be-a-threatening-enemy-but-it-is" effect.
  • Mystrius_Archaion
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    Jayne_Doe wrote: »
    coop500 wrote: »
    A limited craft bag would hurt very little, make it like only have 100 slots or something, ESO+ unlimited craft bag will still be in high demand but throw a bone to their supporters in other ways.

    I sub to support the game and also to have the crafting bag and other perks. I only unsubbed for a while on XB when I experienced consistent issues with missing crowns and loss of ESO+ perks. I re-subbed before Homestead and so far I've had no issues with ESO+.

    "I don't always pay, but when I do I buy crowns." (Dos Equis paraphrasing)

    This game has been costing far too much for a long time to pay for a subscription. I pay for the crowns to buy what I want, both voting with my wallet for stuff I like while still supporting the game, more than people who only sub and refuse to buy crowns.
    I should be supported as well.


    But this is all beside the point that the craft bag, or lack thereof, is an intentional handicap on players to force the subscription because they made crafting too grindy requiring far too many materials and default inventory far too small.

    I leveled a new character through the Jester's Festival. Nearly my entire 60 slots was full of character bound crown store consumables through level up rewards along with the items from the jester boxes. Sure, I could afford to raise the bank slots, but I'm not rich so I ended up at only about 110 slots before I had no more gold from all my characters at the time.
    That's just horrible design to make players feel everything is annoyingly painful to manage.
    If we wanted "challenge" in City of Heroes we would solo the content. If we wanted fun we would form a random PUG the majority of the time and just "wreck face!" feeling overpowered. That was the most fun of any game I've ever played so why does no other "newer" game design that way? I guess they like players never feeling good enough and the inevitable "max level rat/worm/insect/this-shouldn't-be-a-threatening-enemy-but-it-is" effect.
  • Mystrius_Archaion
    Mystrius_Archaion
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    Slick_007 wrote: »
    Arezius wrote: »

    Why not getting ESO+ again? Because my life changed

    thats all well and good. but you need to understand your life within the game also needs to change. You cant keep all the goodies that subscribers get unless you also subscribe. Dont, or cant? then dont expect the same goodies.

    Ok, lock crafting to subscribers only and kill the Summerset expansion Jewelrycrafting even more than how grindy it is. It will no longer be a feature with Summerset.

    Oh wait, crafting is not just for subscribers?? Well, that would be contradictory to your post. Hmmm
    Edited by Mystrius_Archaion on April 26, 2018 2:32AM
    If we wanted "challenge" in City of Heroes we would solo the content. If we wanted fun we would form a random PUG the majority of the time and just "wreck face!" feeling overpowered. That was the most fun of any game I've ever played so why does no other "newer" game design that way? I guess they like players never feeling good enough and the inevitable "max level rat/worm/insect/this-shouldn't-be-a-threatening-enemy-but-it-is" effect.
  • Mystrius_Archaion
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    Sevn wrote: »
    I'm with you OP, that way me and the many many players who now mainly sub for the bag can all drop our subs permanently, but don't throw fits when Zos starts charging crazy prices for any and all things to make up for the lost revenue!
    You think they're not going to try to squeeze more money out of subscribers??!!
    Wow! I guess crown crates that only stick around 3 months and 13000 crown houses only available for 4 days don't exist, among other things. I guess the subscription 1500 crowns per month is enough for everything.
    /evillaugh
    If we wanted "challenge" in City of Heroes we would solo the content. If we wanted fun we would form a random PUG the majority of the time and just "wreck face!" feeling overpowered. That was the most fun of any game I've ever played so why does no other "newer" game design that way? I guess they like players never feeling good enough and the inevitable "max level rat/worm/insect/this-shouldn't-be-a-threatening-enemy-but-it-is" effect.
  • Mystrius_Archaion
    Mystrius_Archaion
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    Stopnaggin wrote: »
    Arezius wrote: »
    Just adding my 2 cents on the subject:

    I've been off ESO since august 2016 (the day I learn there was lockboxes added to the game).
    After nearly 2 years, I've decided to make a quick come back to see what's what.
    I'm looking for something to make me stick with the game again. I love crafting and farming for it, I've always loved it in ESO more than in other games and I very often lose myself while questing because I can't help but gather things.

    After just a couple hours all I see is that there's more things to get than before, my bags are fully upgraded but already full, which means I can't farm anymore aka I don't enjoy the game as much as I could.

    The only solution? Get ESO+?
    No way.

    I'll gladly make a one time payment to get the crafting bag, hoping that it's not too expensive. If getting the crafting bag is as much money as a 6 month sub without all the other benefits then of course I won't be interested...

    If I get this bag, I'll start playing more, and in the way I'll surely buy the DLCs that I haven't done yet.
    I'm talking about spending money into the game (I had all the fist DLCs in their limited edition before I stopped playing and even spent more).

    Why not getting ESO+ again? Because my life changed, I'm a father now and my family is my top priority, which means I don't play regularly, not every day, not for hours, etc... Fully enjoying a DLC would require more than a month.
    Being sub makes me feel like the OP and I don't enjoy that feeling.

    When the game went buy-to-play ZOS told us that people preferred DLCs now instead of subs, only to pay for what they wanted, to enjoy only when they play, but not to keep on paying even when they don't play.
    Well, that's not what ESO offers with this bag. I don't mind anymore about the rest, but the bag is the only thing that would make me sub, but that's not enough and that won't happen.

    I'll likely stop playing again just because of that, because I see one more bad decision in a game I use to love. Are we not enough to feel this way? The rest just accept and pay while being frustrated?

    Another solution, add at least 100 more places in our bags/banks to make up for that, add it to the crown store if you want us to pay. But give us something. Please :smile:

    So by your own admission selling you a craft nag would be a loss to ZOS.

    It pretty much is a craft "nag". It's nagging us to sub with all the worthless mats filling our bags on top of the really important rare ones.

    I'll just keep leaving the trash mats in nodes for somebody else to pick up. I'm sure everyone loves that.
    If we wanted "challenge" in City of Heroes we would solo the content. If we wanted fun we would form a random PUG the majority of the time and just "wreck face!" feeling overpowered. That was the most fun of any game I've ever played so why does no other "newer" game design that way? I guess they like players never feeling good enough and the inevitable "max level rat/worm/insect/this-shouldn't-be-a-threatening-enemy-but-it-is" effect.
  • Mystrius_Archaion
    Mystrius_Archaion
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    Zbigb4life wrote: »
    Plus ESO+ helps support the game.

    Yet the servers are still crap

    Yet they keep increasing the prices and amounts of things not included in the subscription also. That's why the 1500 crowns feel like they are not worth it either.
    They really should raise the crowns given with the sub to be the best deal for buying crowns and give everyone the craft bag. You only get the crown discount once for that time-frame while everyone gets the necessary quality of life option.
    If we wanted "challenge" in City of Heroes we would solo the content. If we wanted fun we would form a random PUG the majority of the time and just "wreck face!" feeling overpowered. That was the most fun of any game I've ever played so why does no other "newer" game design that way? I guess they like players never feeling good enough and the inevitable "max level rat/worm/insect/this-shouldn't-be-a-threatening-enemy-but-it-is" effect.
  • Mystrius_Archaion
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    Nestor wrote: »
    As much as some people spend on Crown Items, i.e. the Whales, that income stream is not consistent. Subscriptions are consistent. It is in ZOS's interest to have as many people subscribe as possible for lots of good reasons.

    1) They can't control who spends what and when, so they will never get enough to subscribe. That's why they made that optional in the first place. It was less money and not successful.

    2) The "whales", and even moderate spenders, end up spending WAYYYYYY more than the subscription would ever cost for everyone in the entire game.

    Their best interest is to not push people away by making the game grind worse with a craft bag locked behind a temporary payment they have to repeat. People will, and do, spend a ton on crowns for everything, which happens to be supporting more content development.


    You know what the subscription actually supports? It supports making everything as slow and painful as possible so that people play a lot longer time thus paying for more time.
    The subscription doesn't encourage the developers to make great content, or any content at all. It just encourages them to make content that is super slow to finish.
    The direct purchase of content is always a better revenue option for developers because it is also a better purchase for us consumers of that content and a much easier decision since we can more easily evaluate the value of the content.
    Edited by Mystrius_Archaion on April 26, 2018 2:33AM
    If we wanted "challenge" in City of Heroes we would solo the content. If we wanted fun we would form a random PUG the majority of the time and just "wreck face!" feeling overpowered. That was the most fun of any game I've ever played so why does no other "newer" game design that way? I guess they like players never feeling good enough and the inevitable "max level rat/worm/insect/this-shouldn't-be-a-threatening-enemy-but-it-is" effect.
  • knaveofengland
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    when you have done most of the content and maxed all the toons on craft really no need for the craft bag , if you subbed before you should have spent the crowns on buying the dlcs what you wanted .

  • JKorr
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    Slick_007 wrote: »
    Sergg007 wrote: »
    i have banker and it is full, i have few alts too and it is not save me from shi*ty management. I want to play and not dig into my inventory.

    you can. you pay like the rest of us. Its a pretty stupid idea to take a big drawcard away from ESO+. then many people will stop paying for ESO+. So you want the game to lose revenue

    So that's the only reason to sub to ESOplus?
    Why do they have anything else included with ESOplus?

    Let's just take away the 1500 crowns from ESOplus and take away every other benefit except the craft bag since that is all anybody cares about.
    You can buy everything else with consumables in the crown store and buying crowns directly without any other "freebies".

    I'd make an exception for themed items; they could keep those for the gamble crates.

    If they'd put everything else up for outright sale in the crown store, I'd be okay with your idea. I was subbed before there were any benefits at all [other than access to the game] to having a sub. Since they changed that business model, they can give me the extra perks to keep my steady income sub active.

  • Mystrius_Archaion
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    OR, you all can come clean up my worms and regulus and ta runes and other junk I leave behind in nodes as I am cherry-picking only the good stuff in the nodes because I don't have the space to just "loot all". See how you like that being more and more common.

    No, the Crafting Bag does not need to be available for everyone. It is fine as an ESO Plus exclusive. It is not required, or even necessary, to play the game.

    How many rubedite/rubedo leather/ancestor silk/ruby ash wood does it take to make a CP160 piece of gear? 100+? They only stack to 200 so that's multiple stacks right there for one set of gear.
    How many other unique items are required for a specific set? 1 trait item plus 1 style item plus multiple of each level of upgrade from white(since we stupidly can't craft straight gold) to green to blue to purple to gold.
    So, to craft one item with all items being required and where everyone is intended to use it take a minimum of 8 inventory slots and a 9th slot to hold the item until it is equipped or traded away. That's just for one crafting profession and one type of equipment.

    Let's just count up how many item slots crafting requires to make a full set of gear, without jewelrycrafting since I'm unsure how much materials cp160 gear for that requires, and every other item players can be expected to use as intended by the design of the game to be either viable in endgame or competitive in pvp or both....

    10 tiers of basic materials each for woodworking and blacksmithing and cloth and leather so up to 40 slots but minimum 4 slots for just max rank
    120 Ruby Ash Wood per Staff...
    120 Ruby Ash Wood per Bow...
    140 Ruby Ash Wood per Shield....
    100 Rubedite Ingots per Dagger...
    110 Rubedite Ingots per Mace...
    110 Rubedite Ingots per Sword...
    110 Rubedite Ingots per Axe...
    140 Rubedite Ingots per Greatsword...
    140 Rubedite Ingots per Battleaxe...
    140 Rubedite Ingots per Maul = total minimum 400 Rubedite Ingots for 2 sets of daggers to fill front bar and back bar so 2 slots minimum and up to 220 Rubedite and 280 Ruby Ash Wood for double bar 1h+shield so 4 slots there
    150 Rubedite/Rubedo Leather/Ancestor Silk for Chest = 1 slot minimum
    140 Rubedite/Rubedo Leather/Ancestor Silk for Pants...
    130 Rubedite/Rubedo Leather/Ancestor Silk for Boots...
    130 Rubedite/Rubedo Leather/Ancestor Silk for Gloves...
    130 Rubedite/Rubedo Leather/Ancestor Silk for Shoulders...
    130 Rubedite/Rubedo Leather/Ancestor Silk for Head...
    130 Rubedite/Rubedo Leather/Ancestor Silk for Belt = total 940 for just one armor type so 5 slots minimum or 680 of one material and 130 of another and 130 of the last type for a 5/1/1 setup so 6 slots minimum
    60 potential styles currently on live with a different material for each = 60 slots minimum
    9 weapon traits = 9 slots minimum
    9 armor traits = 9 slots minimum
    4 different tempers for each rank of blacksmithing upgrades = 4 slots minimum
    4 different tannins for cloth and leather upgrades = 4 slots minimum
    4 different resins for woodworking upgrades = 4 slots minimum
    2 different cp160 potency runes for enchanting but up to 36 total runes and slots for potency
    18 different essence runes = 18 slots minimum
    1 slot for kuta rune but up to 5 slots for all aspect runes
    26 potion/poison reagents = 26 slots minimum
    2 cp160 potion/poison solvents but up to 18 total slots for all levels of solvents
    51 different provisioning ingredients each requiring a slot for 51 slots

    Total minimum slots needed for making any item and any type of gear to fill one set of gear using at least one piece of light and one heavy and one medium and enchants and having a potential of any provisioning recipe or potion/poison....
    201 Slots minimum and a lot more if every rank was included

    That's more than one bank mule and almost the entire bank when not subscribed, and before they added double bank space to ESO+. That number easily climbs to fill the entire bank or 2 mules when including all ranks. That's for those who can afford fully upgraded banks and character slots also when the bank slots get up to 75000 gold for the last 10 slot upgrade.



    The craft bag is absolutely necessary to use all crafting professions in the game even before jewelrycrafting. Either that or our inventories are stupid low, as in stupidly designed too low.
    This is just disappointingly obviously a severe handicap the developers have placed on players to force subscribing.
    I don't know how anybody crafted without major hassles before the craft bag existed. It must have been a nightmare.
    If we wanted "challenge" in City of Heroes we would solo the content. If we wanted fun we would form a random PUG the majority of the time and just "wreck face!" feeling overpowered. That was the most fun of any game I've ever played so why does no other "newer" game design that way? I guess they like players never feeling good enough and the inevitable "max level rat/worm/insect/this-shouldn't-be-a-threatening-enemy-but-it-is" effect.
  • Mystrius_Archaion
    Mystrius_Archaion
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    1) They can't control who spends what and when, so they will never get enough to subscribe. That's why they made that optional in the first place. It was less money and not successful.

    It would not surprise me at all if ZOS came out and said that they have more ESO Plus subscribers today than they had ESO Subscribers at the start of 2015 (when they dropped the sub).

    I am serious when I think that, across all platforms and geographies, the total number of people with an active paid ESO Plus subscription outnumbers those who do not. Given where I think we were coming out of 2014, I think the number of optional ESO Plus subscribers exceeds how many were subscribing to ESO because it was required.

    This is largely due to the crafting bag.

    And, here is the kicker. You talk about Crown sales dwarfing ESO Plus revenue, but they are probably the same people. I think they have successfully gotten a huge number of the active players in the game to pay for ESO using both subscriptions and Crowns. What does that mean in your parlance? Short and sweet: WHALES are ESO Plus subscribers.

    If they cheapen ESO Plus, they risk annoying that very large segment of the population that is paying for both.

    I'm one of those whales, sadly.
    I avoid subscribing but occasionally do for a single month when the weight of the crafting materials gets to be too much so I can force them into the craft bag, or just not collect crafting materials.
    I've been lucky enough to have collected a metric ton of provisioning materials in the past that were stored in the craft bag during one of these times. I completely ignore alchemy because the buffs are too short to bother with the amount of inventory space it requires. I need permanent or long term buffs and gear, so I've learned to play without potions and poisons and enchants are mutually exclusive.

    But, they would not anger me by adding craft bag for everyone.
    I would feel less obligated to spend on the subscription, but that always feels like a waste because of the temporary nature of it and lack of a decent crowns return versus directly purchasing crowns at a discount. I would be likely to spend more on crowns instead than I ever did on the subscription which is already limited to maximum $180 per year. That's "chump change" compared to what I have spent on purchasing content and cosmetics.

    The subscription is not a huge source of revenue. It is limited by its very nature of being directly tied to time unless I were to get another account which would be a very bad idea for me considering it wouldn't have any other purchase I made on the first account.

    Edit:
    Hell! Even World of Warcraft can't survive on the subscription alone with their number of subscribers in the millions. I think their high was 10 million which it has declined to about 7 million subscribers, who do take breaks also and decrease even that number on a short or long term basis, which would add up to at best $1.8 billion per year for 10 million subscribers but more like $1.26 billion for the 7 million low.
    Consider that they sold an account wide mount, like we have, for $25 that could also fly and looked cool for a mount there and they sold a LOT maybe at just 1 million purchases. That would be $25 million instantly, but what if they released more mounts or other items at the same price point and those same 1 million people or different ones bought those? How many items for sale would it take to eclipse even $1.8 billion? 72 items for 1 million purchases at $25 each and all instant with no waiting for time.
    Now consider the game box and expansions they still sell at $60 each for those 7-10 million subscribers before they can even subscribe. That would be $600 million for the initial box and each expansion of which they had 3 expansions before the subscribers really dipped from 10 million to 7 million making it potentially $2.4 billion just as of Cataclysm then add another 2 or 3 expansions since and the content has continually earned them more and more than the subscription really can.

    I'm betting ESO makes a hell of a lot more than WoW off of its cash shop since the subscription isn't mandatory, making it a much more impulse buy for everything without that "if my sub lapses then I lose it" problem.
    That's why any game goes B2P/F2P. People get loose wallets then.
    Edited by Mystrius_Archaion on April 29, 2018 2:30AM
    If we wanted "challenge" in City of Heroes we would solo the content. If we wanted fun we would form a random PUG the majority of the time and just "wreck face!" feeling overpowered. That was the most fun of any game I've ever played so why does no other "newer" game design that way? I guess they like players never feeling good enough and the inevitable "max level rat/worm/insect/this-shouldn't-be-a-threatening-enemy-but-it-is" effect.
  • Imryll
    Imryll
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    duendology wrote: »
    I am curious. What happens with all the items in ESO PLus bottomless craft bag when you unsubscribe from the membership?
    The items stay in the craft bag. You may withdraw items out as you need them, but nothing will be deposited into the craft bag.

    The most frustrating aspect of that (as I've found when my sub has lapsed) is that when you craft, the game automatically chooses to use mats from your bag rather than the ones in your character's bag so that you can't just remove an apple from your bag by using it for a recipe. You'll need to cook all 2k apples in your craft bag first. Since your bank account is likely frozen due to losing its double capacity, I've found that the game is close to unplayable without a sub once you've had one for any length of time.

    Certainly, this benefits ZOS in the short-term. I'm not yet sure how this strategy will play out long run.

    Someone mentionned earlier how the number of items in play increases with each DLC. Even though I have a craft bag and have bought purchased about half the storage containers (using writ vouchers), I would very much like them to make increases to the number of bank slots you can purchase a standard feature of chapters, so that you might unlock 20 slots with Morrowind and another 20 with Summerset.
  • SHADOW2KK
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    TheOOB wrote: »
    I know there is no way to get the crafting bag without ESO plus, and I know this has probably been discussed before, but it is a bit upsetting to me that there is no way to get the crafting bag without eso plus. The other benefits of ESO plus you can either get for a one time fee, or earn through play, but what is perhaps the greatest quality of life enhancement you cannot.

    It's not that I don't think ESO plus is a fair price, I think it is, but for personal reason I refuse to pay subscription services for games I play. The second I start paying monthly for something, for me at least it turns entertainment into a chore. If I'm not getting full value out of it, I'm wasting my money. If I stop playing for a couple of weeks/months, my money is going down the toilet. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way, I just wish ZO would add a one time fee option to get the craft bag. Just as I'm willing to buy the DLC packs separately, I'm willing to pay a decent amount to get that luxury without a subscription.

    Bye then.
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  • Mystrius_Archaion
    Mystrius_Archaion
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    I forgot to include furnishing items and crafting in my above post.
    Inventory requirements just to use the game systems as intended, ones directly purchased like Jewelrycrafting especially, are insane.
    If we wanted "challenge" in City of Heroes we would solo the content. If we wanted fun we would form a random PUG the majority of the time and just "wreck face!" feeling overpowered. That was the most fun of any game I've ever played so why does no other "newer" game design that way? I guess they like players never feeling good enough and the inevitable "max level rat/worm/insect/this-shouldn't-be-a-threatening-enemy-but-it-is" effect.
  • exiars10
    exiars10
    ✭✭✭
    Imryll wrote: »
    duendology wrote: »
    I am curious. What happens with all the items in ESO PLus bottomless craft bag when you unsubscribe from the membership?
    The items stay in the craft bag. You may withdraw items out as you need them, but nothing will be deposited into the craft bag.

    The most frustrating aspect of that (as I've found when my sub has lapsed) is that when you craft, the game automatically chooses to use mats from your bag rather than the ones in your character's bag so that you can't just remove an apple from your bag by using it for a recipe. You'll need to cook all 2k apples in your craft bag first. Since your bank account is likely frozen due to losing its double capacity, I've found that the game is close to unplayable without a sub once you've had one for any length of time.
    So if you stop paying bank safety deposit box you expect to held stuff inside it for free until you pick it up, right? No?
    You want benefit without paying up? Doesn't work in real world, does it?


    I don't play ESO since 15.06. because Cyrodiil is broken since Summerset (PvE isn't much better, too)...

    Aldmeri Dominion (PC Europe via Steam)

    The cowardly Wood Elves are best noted for their unwillingness to engage in a face-to-face attack; a Bosmer will strike at you from every side except the front. You won't cross swords with a Bosmer, but you might catch an arrow in the throat. Be wary in forests and jungles, and watch your back.
  • snailbrick
    snailbrick
    ✭✭
    DLC the crafting bag, I'll buy it today!! I've been saying this since they came out with the crafting bag. It's not going to happen though! For the majority of subscribers, this is the ONLY reason they sub to ESO+. If they make it available to buy outright with crowns, they will destroy their membership base.

    I don't subscribe to ESO+ and probably never will because I hate to feel obligated to play a game. If things come up and I can't play for a week or a few days I don't want to feel like I'm wasting money. It doesn't go by hours, it's 24/7 membership whether you are playing or not. I wish they had a 1 day or a 1 week ESO+ subscription for a few dollars.

    They did help us non ESO+ people out by giving the extra storage for our homes. If they continue to expand on this it would be a great help to us without ESO+. I'd pay crowns for extra permanent storage in our homes. I wouldn't even mind them putting extremely rare items in the game to find in order to craft new storage for homes. Give us something new to work towards.

    Some people have an extra account they use solely for storage. This seems inconvenient, but it makes sense as a place to put extra items. Play on one account and store on another I guess. I just like having everything inside one account.
  • BretonMage
    BretonMage
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    I think it would be a good compromise to offer a limited crafting bag for purchase. Even a 30-item one would be helpful for non-subscribers, whilst providing not-quite-enough space so that most subscribers would still want to stay on ESO+.
  • Inoki
    Inoki
    ✭✭✭
    ESO Plus is $15 a month for limitless hours of content.

    Try bowling for $15 and see how much time and content you get for your money.
    Answer: 1 game for approximately 30 minutes

    Try laser tag for $15 and see how much time and content you get for your money.
    Answer: 1 game for 15 minutes, 30 minutes if you're at a really generous venue

    Try go-carts for $15 and see how much time and content you get for your money.
    Answer Typically not enough for a single race, which is usually in the $20 for a 10 minute race.

    The list goes on and on guys. You can plug in movie tickets, a couple of fast food meals, miniture golf etc and the limitless hours of time and content spent inside an MMO becomes one of the greatest entertainment values ever invented in modern times. And guess what--MMO subscription prices have been the same for the past 15 years--no increase in sub price. They have to come up with other ways to create additional revenue, which is where you get into your cash shops, your microtransactions, your crown crates.

    these are exactly my thoughts that I also explained in-game to ppl and they got the "aha" moment.

    Think about a Friday night out, you go out, you spend at least 30 EUR (since I'm in the EU) for drinks that you pee out moments later, so if you can spend money on entertainment that literally lasts only a couple of minutes, why not spend that money on something that either remains on your account forever, or lasts at least a significantly longer amount of time?
  • Whiphid
    Whiphid
    ✭✭✭✭
    51 different provisioning ingredients each requiring a slot for 51 slots

    Or you dont hoard absolutely everything. Generally you will only make one type of food, so no need to keep all those other mats. I managed just fine on one character before I subbed, and hadn't even maxed out the bank.

    You can debate till you fall over, bag is and will be ESO+ only.
    But with all the new stuff being added they should consider increasing the max bank and inventory slots you can purchase.
    One land! One Emperor! Who among you will stand with me?

    PS4/EU/DC - Breton Sorcerer / Breton Healplar / Khajiit Stamblade / Khajiit Stamplar / Altmer SorcTank
    Master Crafter and Guild Master of the Aetherium Alliance.
  • lordrichter
    lordrichter
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Whiphid wrote: »
    51 different provisioning ingredients each requiring a slot for 51 slots

    Or you dont hoard absolutely everything. Generally you will only make one type of food, so no need to keep all those other mats. I managed just fine on one character before I subbed, and hadn't even maxed out the bank.

    This. You do this by not collecting everything. Collect what is needed, coordinate across characters so that anyone leveling crafting is at the same level, and things are fine. Just because the game can be played without the Crafting Bag does not imply that every feature in the whole game is played simultaneously.
    PC North America since March 2014
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say NO to Crown Crates!
    I collect free, unopened, virgin Crown Crates! 311, so far!

  • Mystrius_Archaion
    Mystrius_Archaion
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    exiars10 wrote: »
    Imryll wrote: »
    duendology wrote: »
    I am curious. What happens with all the items in ESO PLus bottomless craft bag when you unsubscribe from the membership?
    The items stay in the craft bag. You may withdraw items out as you need them, but nothing will be deposited into the craft bag.

    The most frustrating aspect of that (as I've found when my sub has lapsed) is that when you craft, the game automatically chooses to use mats from your bag rather than the ones in your character's bag so that you can't just remove an apple from your bag by using it for a recipe. You'll need to cook all 2k apples in your craft bag first. Since your bank account is likely frozen due to losing its double capacity, I've found that the game is close to unplayable without a sub once you've had one for any length of time.
    So if you stop paying bank safety deposit box you expect to held stuff inside it for free until you pick it up, right? No?
    You want benefit without paying up? Doesn't work in real world, does it?

    In the real world I can purchase more storage space by buying a house or another building on the land or just using existing unused space in my current house, or digging a damn hole in the ground and hiding my treasure like people have done for centuries.

    You're just making excuses for the developers who made a super grindy inventory-hogging crafting system and a woefully inadequate inventory system and haven't corrected their major mistake yet.


    This is the same as the Star Wars Battlefront 2 lootbox problem. They're having us pay more money to alleviate flawed game systems. (Read up on it and you'll understand since they made the game more of a grind to support their lootboxes which were faster.)
    If we wanted "challenge" in City of Heroes we would solo the content. If we wanted fun we would form a random PUG the majority of the time and just "wreck face!" feeling overpowered. That was the most fun of any game I've ever played so why does no other "newer" game design that way? I guess they like players never feeling good enough and the inevitable "max level rat/worm/insect/this-shouldn't-be-a-threatening-enemy-but-it-is" effect.
  • Mystrius_Archaion
    Mystrius_Archaion
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Whiphid wrote: »
    51 different provisioning ingredients each requiring a slot for 51 slots

    Or you dont hoard absolutely everything. Generally you will only make one type of food, so no need to keep all those other mats. I managed just fine on one character before I subbed, and hadn't even maxed out the bank.

    You can debate till you fall over, bag is and will be ESO+ only.
    But with all the new stuff being added they should consider increasing the max bank and inventory slots you can purchase.

    Still not enough space unless you subscribe.


    Answer me this:
    Was the craft bag always a thing? OR was this asked for as a fix for the stupid low inventory size with stupid high amount of crafting ingredients and everything else you may want to save back in the day before the optional subscription?

    I'm betting you had to beg for more space and thanked them for this fix without thinking "oh, it's still bad for people who don't pay the optional subscrption" because that wasn't you at the time and it makes the subscription mandatory.
    Another developer LIE about what is required to play.



    Like I said:
    Make jewelrycrafting for subscribers only. Move gold upgrade materials for it into crown crates and make the drop rate for the ones out of crown crates even lower. Remove jewelrycrafting from the Summerset features list.
    After all, that they could have done and probably should do considering you need the craft bag to hold onto the insane material amounts you will get and NEED because of everything dropping as a 1/10th piece of the actual usable item and only stacking to 200 for some stupid reason.
    If we wanted "challenge" in City of Heroes we would solo the content. If we wanted fun we would form a random PUG the majority of the time and just "wreck face!" feeling overpowered. That was the most fun of any game I've ever played so why does no other "newer" game design that way? I guess they like players never feeling good enough and the inevitable "max level rat/worm/insect/this-shouldn't-be-a-threatening-enemy-but-it-is" effect.
  • Mystrius_Archaion
    Mystrius_Archaion
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Whiphid wrote: »
    51 different provisioning ingredients each requiring a slot for 51 slots

    Or you dont hoard absolutely everything.

    Enjoy picking up my Mundane Runes and Crawlers and Worms and Regulus and every other item that is worthless to me while I hoover up all the green and higher items and then refine them myself and vendor trash the actual materials I have too much of just for the Tannins/Tempers/Resins and still sell them to you because you can't get them as easily.

    I don't need to hoard everything, but I can cherry pick what I want and leave the node half empty for you until somebody collects it, because it doesn't despawn or have unique loot for each player like in other games.
    So because I don't have the craft bag, you're going to have to collect more crap and take more time to get anything useful.

    Welcome to crafting-PVP, even more than fighting for nodes. Now you race and fight for half empty nodes.
    Edited by Mystrius_Archaion on May 1, 2018 12:14AM
    If we wanted "challenge" in City of Heroes we would solo the content. If we wanted fun we would form a random PUG the majority of the time and just "wreck face!" feeling overpowered. That was the most fun of any game I've ever played so why does no other "newer" game design that way? I guess they like players never feeling good enough and the inevitable "max level rat/worm/insect/this-shouldn't-be-a-threatening-enemy-but-it-is" effect.
  • Cireous
    Cireous
    ✭✭✭
    I recently went without ESO plus for a month and made it work, sort of. I turned my bank into my crafting bag (only I manually had to put everything in it), kept the gear drops I want to keep for some reason on mule alts, and organized everything else within home storage. The only thing I felt lacking was bank space. At least one hundred more bank slots for non-ESO plus members would make a world of difference in not making us feel so utterly overwhelmed with inventory management. Even with a little added bank space, we would still have to sell constantly and deliver everything to our bank manually; however, our bank could essentially be our craft bag, at the very least, holding up to 200 of each material-type that drops in game. To make things a little more easy on us, as well, access to our home storage chests from our bank certainly would be helpful. I think in this scenario, the pain element is still present giving us the desire to pony-up for ESO plus when we are actively enjoying the game (instead of just logging in to do crafting dailies during content droughts), if not just to open the DLC's again, collect crowns towards crown store purchases, and make inventory especially easy to deal with. But at the same time, inventory management wouldn't be so painful that it makes us feel wildly taken advantage of in a "sub optional game" with a nearly mandatory craft bag tied to it, making this game more so "sub mandatory" than anything else. This is really just not fair.

    The crown stores design of limited time items at high real-world costs, crown crates, paid expansions every year, are all tools of sub free games, yet most of us also feel hamstringed into paying a sub. They are getting their cake and eating it too, and I wish they could see just how much this sucks for us. I have a strong feeling that the building resentment at the exorbitant amounts of cash (compared to other titles) they honestly expect us to throw at them just to enjoy this game is going to bite them in the a$$ in the coming years, probably as soon as games like Ashes of Creation and other new, exciting and innovative MMO's start dropping.
  • JasonSilverSpring
    JasonSilverSpring
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    exiars10 wrote: »
    Imryll wrote: »
    duendology wrote: »
    I am curious. What happens with all the items in ESO PLus bottomless craft bag when you unsubscribe from the membership?
    The items stay in the craft bag. You may withdraw items out as you need them, but nothing will be deposited into the craft bag.

    The most frustrating aspect of that (as I've found when my sub has lapsed) is that when you craft, the game automatically chooses to use mats from your bag rather than the ones in your character's bag so that you can't just remove an apple from your bag by using it for a recipe. You'll need to cook all 2k apples in your craft bag first. Since your bank account is likely frozen due to losing its double capacity, I've found that the game is close to unplayable without a sub once you've had one for any length of time.
    So if you stop paying bank safety deposit box you expect to held stuff inside it for free until you pick it up, right? No?
    You want benefit without paying up? Doesn't work in real world, does it?

    In the real world I can purchase more storage space by buying a house or another building on the land or just using existing unused space in my current house, or digging a damn hole in the ground and hiding my treasure like people have done for centuries.

    You're just making excuses for the developers who made a super grindy inventory-hogging crafting system and a woefully inadequate inventory system and haven't corrected their major mistake yet.


    This is the same as the Star Wars Battlefront 2 lootbox problem. They're having us pay more money to alleviate flawed game systems. (Read up on it and you'll understand since they made the game more of a grind to support their lootboxes which were faster.)

    They just added storage chests for housing. That is your storage space in house or digging up a hole in the ground answer right there. People survived for a good year plus without a craft bag even existing and while paying a mandatory sub. And, they have actually reduced the number of unique mats for provisioning. I believe that they also increased the stack size for some items.

    I don't agree the inventory system is woefully inadequate; it could definitely be improved but not as bad as you make it out. They could add a built-in search tool like add-ons provide and a way to see what is on other characters, but it is not woefully inadequate. If the inventory system was so horrible, people would leave the game.

    Adding the craft bag for ESO+ was a major convenience item to encourage subscribing. Subscriptions are important because that is revenue that they can count on. If you enjoy the game and even play for a couple hours a week the $15 a month is still cheaper than many other entertainment options. I spend more than that to watch a 2 hour movie.
  • Slick_007
    Slick_007
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    This is the same as the Star Wars Battlefront 2 lootbox problem.

    with lines like that, im not sure why anyone bothers responding to you. equating the eso craft bag with battlefront 2 loot boxes.
    PAPSMEAR - Positively Against Paws SMEAR campaign - Say YES to crown crates
  • worsttankever
    worsttankever
    ✭✭✭
    I'm interested in how other dedicated crafters have managed without the ESO+ crafting bag.

    After a 9 month break, I'm thinking about returning. However, I'm married now. With combined finances and a strict budget. Monthly subscription payments aren't gonna fly until the wife and I save up for a house down payment.

    Just the sheer thought of moving junk around between characters (14 slots nearly all maxxed out, full bank) prevents me from logging back in...

    Similar to another player on this thread - I quit after my honeymoon because I realized I was OCD, logging in daily to complete all horse upgrades & crafting dailies on 14 characters.

    Now I wanna log back in and play around on an alt in PVP. But lack of access to DLC areas for my favorite sets, hassle with inventory, and (one of my) favorite parts of the game being making my own gear and consumables.... how to do that without a crafting bag?
    Edited by worsttankever on May 11, 2018 11:42PM
    Men are but flesh and blood. They know their doom, but not the hour.
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