DuskMarine wrote: »

Revokus wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

Revokus wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

Revokus wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

only real change i have to say for nightblades is their cloak. theyve already changed one. they need to change the other as well. we have the increase the resource cost with every use(thisll put an end to spammers) or we could make it better. remove the cloak capability on it but give us major brutality or minor brutality that we could stack with a pot. that way everyone would be happy with it keeping the damage style of the ability and it fairly evens ground stopping the disappearing nightblade issue. the damage increase would be much better in my opinion kindve make nightblades the actual assassin type character their meant to be doing it with certain tactics instead of always relying on being able to auto stealth even if your close to someone else.

No thanks there is so many counters to cloak in this game if you don’t know about those it’s a l2p issue.

not really a counter thing. their making one a tank morph why not make the other a slayer morph and get rid of the cloaking feature all together outside of pots.

Why do you want to get rid of cloak ? The signature skill of nightblade ? So that you and your zergs can have it even more easy ? What you are suggesting is just wrong in so many ways.

im not really suggesting anything of the sort. a slayer is a high damage high risk high reward type build. getting rid of cloak in place putting something that gives more damage or power to the nightblade would further help this style of play. so it doesnt make anything easier at all for anything else. other than giving the nightblade better strength. you just cant cloak give up a cheap tactic for more power hows that even sound like a bad trade? ps i have a nightblade so there is a reason here lol.

Ranged mageblade need cloak not more damage.. Without cloak you can’t heal unless you spam healing ward for a 2k heal go try that in open world pvp and see where this gets you.

umm you dont need cloak at all dude magblades are bombers mostly. ive never died to a magblade that didnt run a bomber build. so yall would actually profit quite well from my suggestion as well. besides being a magblade you have access to annulment a shield(as much as their broken) so really your arguement is kinda a moot point low on health pop a shield or get higher damage. also why are you running a resto staff? run with a group with a templar in it youll be fine.my suggestion if anything would help yall stop taking so much damage to have to roll a healing ability cause a dead person is no longer a threat. you dont "need" a cloak if you do throw an invis pot it does the same thing. changing the other morph to a slayer type morph removing the cloak would help both magblades and stamblades while also making pretty much everyone whos tired of perma cloak finally stay quiet. we get more power and deadlier and they get to see whats going to kill them. its a win win situation you dont need cloak to heal. besides you got the whole siphoning tree for healing as well so.

You've obviously never run into me then. Go look at my YouTube. Bombing is a secondary feat in which I can preform should I see an opportunity a rise but it is in no way my primary function.

NyassaV wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

diplomatt wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno Class snare removal pls. For example on activating healing morf of invisibility.
Or Sap Essence/Power Extraction.

Let us to not be glued to "Forward momentum" in heavy and light. magblade with 2hander - its ugly.
Variety please...

if there is going to be class snare removal for nb. it has to be on blur i think.

Sure. So they get Major Evasion for 26 seconds, or if you meant Double Take, also Major Expedition for 4 seconds on top of that, and snare removal and immunity? StamBlades can run Heavy Armour and Rally as no brainer then?

No thanks.

i don't even care. snares are the worst thing in this game by a country mile. they either need to remove snares on things like flying blades or give every class a snare removal. keep in mind this is removal not immunity.

A snare removal is the most useless thing in this game either you get immunity or you can also use the base morph because that removal won't help you at all as you will be snared .1s afterwards

immunity is too much. all i need is a removal.

Believe me a removal won't do you any good, back when shuffle was available for everyone you could have it as a removal only it was extremely weak you just get snare again before you can even walk 1m.
Same with DK wings which only grant a removal atm but it's useless you just get snared again and lost the whole effect

If you seriously think it won't do any good you are an idiot. I hit cloak and am snared to hell and back most the time. If I had removal I could actually move a bit. Don't need immunity

Have fun with caltrops, warden with permafrost, a magdk etc.
The removal is useless flat out useless.
I played meele magnb with DW and mist form long enough to know when a snare removal works and when it doesn't. As soon as you can't get 2-3 seconds when you are actually immune to snares you are dead because you can't move. Sure do a dodge roll into shade with snare removal this may work from time to time but in most cases you will just get another snare on you when you enter combat again.
You need time to move out of things or away from things and during this time snares are lethal and you need be immune to them.
Look how good mistform is when you get rooted by a poison while using it, it's absolutely useless and that's what all snare removal only skills are aswell

My feedback from a PvE perspective after testing (Magicka Nightblade):

• Twisting Path: The damage nerf does put the Magicka Nightblade further behind the Magicka Sorcerer this patch. The buffs in recent updates over the past 12 months have somewhat reduced the gap between Liquid Lightning and Twisting Path. However, now the gap is huge again, with Liquid Lightning also providing synergy. You can feel the nerf. However, it is still worth using.
• Strife: Enough people have already commented on this one. The cost increase was completely uncalled for, as the skill is nowhere close to Force Shock in its utility. The recent animation changes did not improve weaving. Even on Live, many Magicka Nightblades tend to go with Force Pulse for short fights, just because it simply leads to higher damage (e.g. burning effect with Asylum Staff + Elemental Blockade). And I hope I don't have to explain that the other morph, Crushing Shock, is one of the most useful skills in this game. It's irreplaceable. If you suddenly removed it, most known tactics in almost all challenging dungeons and trials would simply stop working. Your explanation is that you wanted to bring Stife's cost in line with Force Shock, but there simply is no line. Force Shock is by far superior to Strife: 1. Higher base damage + debuffs + scales with racial passives (elemental dmg) + extremely op Crushing Shock morph + three hits per cast, thus, 3x the chance to proc sets or crits. 2. Instant cast: You can cast Force Pulse at the same time as swapping your bar to a non-destro staff. The pulse will still come out of your ass 0.3s later. Strife is a lot clunkier. Doing the same with Strife would just cancel it. The recent changes did not affect it. 3. The utility of Strife was not the healing, at least in PvE. It's merely a nice extra. Its utility was its relatively low cost... which really could've been lower. To conclude: Strife should cost half of what Force Shock costs. I, personally, draw the line at 2000. If Strife costs 2000 or more, I will not use it anymore. Force Shock is just way superior. I'm happy to pay the additional 700 for all the benefits mentioned before. But if it costs the same, it's a no-brainer. No sane mNB will use Strife. Ever.

General feedback:

• The light attack damage is ridiculous. It's way too high. 50k+ on the target dummy, up from max. 25k two years ago on Ninglenel), is too high of a power creep. Remember the time when AA and HRC were being run in 5 min? We're slowly getting back there.

Also, #SaveNinglenel

Lucky28 wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Sparky617 wrote: »

If both morphs of strife will have increased cost, then their effectiveness should be increased respectively.
Funnel Health. should do less damage, but have a bigger heal. Also revert back to healing 2 friendly targets.
Swallow soul. should do increased damage, grants minor mending

To what extent? Matching force pulses tool tip damage would then become penetration, increased proc conditions vs ult generation, healing done and minor vitality. As far as ability budget goes, that would be lopsided and bring it back to the issue of why its cost is being changed in the first place.

Again, match the costs of both abilities, reduce that cost to around 2100 magicka base cost. Leave damage values as they are, change funnel to heal for more and deal less damage. And have it heal 2 targets (not guaranteeing the caster will always get the hot). Swallow soul is perfect as is right now and does not need a damage increase.

strife doesn't need to be brought in line with force pulse. force pulse is a weapon skill, strife is a class skill. A class skill should be more unique then a weapons skills that's available to everyone. we shouldn't be nerfing class skills because they may be better than weapons skills, class skills should be better than weapon skills period.

No not period you have a fundamentally flawed belief as to how abilities are weighted and budgeted in this game. No one from zos ever, since the inception of this game, has claimed class skills SHOULD be superior. That is something you came up with in your head.

Class skills, much like all the various analogous abilities in this game, should be unique to one another, not objectively superior to any other.

That is the reailty of the game, it is not an opinion.

because by balancing the nb's class skills to be in line with weapons skills you're actively harming the class. A NB's defenses/survivablity is it's superior resources, resource management and low cost skills it doesn't have insane burst heals, it's not that tanky and it doesn't have shield stacks it has none of these things, not innately. and it don't really need any of those things because it has it's resources and that is the identity of the class the way it's played and the uniqueness of it.

I don't care what class we're talking about, i don't want any of them to be cheapened like this.

You can't just look at class skills against other class skills. Otherwise they might as well remove all skill lines but the class ones!

If you want low cost skills then fine, Nerf the damage the skills can output then or remove the secondary affects or something. Something needs to be adjusted, whether it's the skill damage, utility, cost or even one of the passives that get triggered when using the skill.

Yamenstein wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Sparky617 wrote: »

If both morphs of strife will have increased cost, then their effectiveness should be increased respectively.
Funnel Health. should do less damage, but have a bigger heal. Also revert back to healing 2 friendly targets.
Swallow soul. should do increased damage, grants minor mending

To what extent? Matching force pulses tool tip damage would then become penetration, increased proc conditions vs ult generation, healing done and minor vitality. As far as ability budget goes, that would be lopsided and bring it back to the issue of why its cost is being changed in the first place.

Again, match the costs of both abilities, reduce that cost to around 2100 magicka base cost. Leave damage values as they are, change funnel to heal for more and deal less damage. And have it heal 2 targets (not guaranteeing the caster will always get the hot). Swallow soul is perfect as is right now and does not need a damage increase.

strife doesn't need to be brought in line with force pulse. force pulse is a weapon skill, strife is a class skill. A class skill should be more unique then a weapons skills that's available to everyone. we shouldn't be nerfing class skills because they may be better than weapons skills, class skills should be better than weapon skills period.

No not period you have a fundamentally flawed belief as to how abilities are weighted and budgeted in this game. No one from zos ever, since the inception of this game, has claimed class skills SHOULD be superior. That is something you came up with in your head.

Class skills, much like all the various analogous abilities in this game, should be unique to one another, not objectively superior to any other.

That is the reailty of the game, it is not an opinion.

because by balancing the nb's class skills to be in line with weapons skills you're actively harming the class. A NB's defenses/survivablity is it's superior resources, resource management and low cost skills it doesn't have insane burst heals, it's not that tanky and it doesn't have shield stacks it has none of these things, not innately. and it don't really need any of those things because it has it's resources and that is the identity of the class the way it's played and the uniqueness of it.

I don't care what class we're talking about, i don't want any of them to be cheapened like this.

You can't just look at class skills against other class skills. Otherwise they might as well remove all skill lines but the class ones!

If you want low cost skills then fine, Nerf the damage the skills can output then or remove the secondary affects or something. Something needs to be adjusted, whether it's the skill damage, utility, cost or even one of the passives that get triggered when using the skill.

Strife doesn't need to be adjusted is the thing. Strife is not what gives Magblades high DPS for DPS Force pulse is objectively better the heal is only good so long as you're spamming the ability the HoT itself is irrelevant and can easily be replaced with something else and better. as people have already said, it's low cost is why you use it over other abilities. it's not gonna get much use if the cost is increased.

Class skills should be more unique then Weapon skills, otherwise what's the point in having unique classes to begin with. not saying weapon skills have to suck but to balance class skills to be in line with weapon skills is just not a good idea. we'll end us with a lack of ingenuity in builds.

I just want some added utility to NB at this point. I've accepted the nerfs but I would like the rest of our toolkit to be seriously looked at.

The buff to Debilitate still makes it useless. It's a filler skill in an AoE situation but considering that it only lasts 8 seconds, you can't realistically put it on more than 3-4 targets, else you risk not getting back the MP refund on the 1st target affected and you need time to do that and even that comes at a DPS loss since Path+WoE+Sap would kill them all much quicker than Single Targetting them. Please, change Debilitate to a Healer Morph that applies Minor Lifesteal to the target. It instantly becomes useful for something by granting access to an 8 second HoT of sorts for the group, benefiting everyone.

Power Extraction should provide something else to make it more useful but I'm hesitant to improve Stamblade DPS more than it already is. Therefore, making it grant a Debuff like Minor Mangle would make it slightly more attractive an option as, while the majority would ignore it, it would still add some utility to the otherwise underused skill. Worst case scenario, it continues to get ignored so it's a "got nothing to lose" type of buff.

Blur should a group Major Evasion. Yes, Evasion is probably the most annoying buff in this game in relation to PvP but it's clear ZOS doesn't view it that way by adding several more ways to get Evasion in Summerset that I'm just done with trying to go against the grain here, and its not like every NB is instantly going to run it in PvP now either. It'll be a flavor buff to PvE at best and a slightly more annoying thing in PvP at worst. Wouldn't hurt to try it.

Reaper's Mark is almost completely useless. The bigger heal is nice on occasion but overall, the skill is just really bad. Major Berserk after killing the target makes it almost exclusively useful on trash mobs with little to no real bearings elsewhere, which are irrelevant in most situations and utterly useless in most boss fights. Piercing Mark is infinitely superior in PvP in every way that there's not even a need to discuss it there. Make Reaper's Mark increase the damage a target takes in Execute Range. The name matches perfectly for that and the effect itself would vastly improve the skill to be a useful debuff for NB to maintain in execute range. Remove the Major Berserk and heal entirely if you must be make it at least useful.

DDuke wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

The nerf to crit heals from shadowy had to occur. We can't have one of the best bursts in the game AND heal decently. Makes no sense. Plus, this will make the unskilled nbs/unbalanced builds easier to kill, which makes me really happy.

That makes Zero sense all classes should have good healing.

Where is the good healing for sorcs then?

I give you both for siphoning attacks

Siphoning Attacks is half the heal of Surge & only applies to (usually dodgeable) light/heavy attacks, where as Surge not only heals for more, but can act as a "heal over time" with a DoT on target.

I don't see in what universe Siphoning Attacks would be a stronger heal, and even for sustain it's extremely unreliable as it can be neutered nigh useless by dodge rolling/cloaking.

Nor does it give Major Brutality/Sorcery, which would be a godsend for non-2H stamblades.

Playing magblade and sorc - given the respective toolkits of both classes surge is absolutely underwhelming compared to siphoning. I´d trade it in an instant for magsorc.
The universe where siphoning is the better heal is pvp practice on ranged magblade/magsorc.
It´s the other way around for stamblade and stamsorc.

Derra, idk if you're thinking rationally here.

Leeching Strikes/Siphoning Attacks in the best case scenario is a 1452 heal for a light/heavy attack, where as Surge is 2500/2970 (depending on morph) heal on every crit.

So even if you're not weaving any abilities (and don't have any DoTs/enchants that can crit) it's worth a minimum 1250 healing/second with 50% crit chance.

Once you start weaving abilities, counting enchants etc the healing from Crit Surge gets way above whatever Siphoning Attacks/Leeching Strikes provides, even against targets that aren't necessarily dodging every single light attack.


So healing wise there's no question which ability is better.
Whether you find the sustain from Siphoning Attacks the determining factor in which is the better skill is another matter entirely (I personally don't, but as you know I rarely care about sustain anyway).

Just for what its worth, siphoning strikes and dark deal / exchange are the proper comparisons there, surge and sap essense are the other analogues.

Lucky28 wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Sparky617 wrote: »

If both morphs of strife will have increased cost, then their effectiveness should be increased respectively.
Funnel Health. should do less damage, but have a bigger heal. Also revert back to healing 2 friendly targets.
Swallow soul. should do increased damage, grants minor mending

To what extent? Matching force pulses tool tip damage would then become penetration, increased proc conditions vs ult generation, healing done and minor vitality. As far as ability budget goes, that would be lopsided and bring it back to the issue of why its cost is being changed in the first place.

Again, match the costs of both abilities, reduce that cost to around 2100 magicka base cost. Leave damage values as they are, change funnel to heal for more and deal less damage. And have it heal 2 targets (not guaranteeing the caster will always get the hot). Swallow soul is perfect as is right now and does not need a damage increase.

strife doesn't need to be brought in line with force pulse. force pulse is a weapon skill, strife is a class skill. A class skill should be more unique then a weapons skills that's available to everyone. we shouldn't be nerfing class skills because they may be better than weapons skills, class skills should be better than weapon skills period.

No not period you have a fundamentally flawed belief as to how abilities are weighted and budgeted in this game. No one from zos ever, since the inception of this game, has claimed class skills SHOULD be superior. That is something you came up with in your head.

Class skills, much like all the various analogous abilities in this game, should be unique to one another, not objectively superior to any other.

That is the reailty of the game, it is not an opinion.

because by balancing the nb's class skills to be in line with weapons skills you're actively harming the class. A NB's defenses/survivablity is it's superior resources, resource management and low cost skills it doesn't have insane burst heals, it's not that tanky and it doesn't have shield stacks it has none of these things, not innately. and it don't really need any of those things because it has it's resources and that is the identity of the class the way it's played and the uniqueness of it.

I don't care what class we're talking about, i don't want any of them to be cheapened like this.

You can't just look at class skills against other class skills. Otherwise they might as well remove all skill lines but the class ones!

If you want low cost skills then fine, Nerf the damage the skills can output then or remove the secondary affects or something. Something needs to be adjusted, whether it's the skill damage, utility, cost or even one of the passives that get triggered when using the skill.

Strife doesn't need to be adjusted is the thing. Strife is not what gives Magblades high DPS for DPS Force pulse is objectively better the heal is only good so long as you're spamming the ability the HoT itself is irrelevant and can easily be replaced with something else and better. as people have already said, it's low cost is why you use it over other abilities. it's not gonna get much use if the cost is increased.

Class skills should be more unique then Weapon skills, otherwise what's the point in having unique classes to begin with. not saying weapon skills have to suck but to balance class skills to be in line with weapon skills is just not a good idea. we'll end us with a lack of ingenuity in builds.

Strife will most certainly see use, what are you talking about lol... nb healers, solo builds and pvp setups will absolutely continue tonuse strife. One single build avenue for mag nbs will likely switch to FP.

Your last two entences also make a lick of sense. Each and every skill in this game is designed to function in some way unique. Class skills and weapon skills are equally unique in function, with class skills generally being reinforced themarically with said class. Whats the point of having unique classes? Maybe one small reason is thay scnearios where a class could provide a ranged 28m spell that heals instead of doing max damage. Enough with the cherry picking. Balancing weapon skills (all skills actually) under the same design philosophy is an absolutely critical thing to enforce and is an exceptional idea. Weapin skills, guild sjills world skills are not second rate fillers, they have never been and will continue not to be, they exist to flesh out build options and fill holes where class skills dont offer the desired niche for a particluar build.

I have 3 magblades one of them is a GO. i'm phasing out strife on all my builds.

that's really all i have say on it.

but lol NB healers

Im sorry? Do you find that humerous?

Feanor wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Lucky28

Counterplay? Where is it when you just go Snare Removal -> Shadow Image Teleport -> Cloak -> Gone? You can just try to spam a gap closer (if you have one) and hope you stay on top. Nothing more.

and where is the counterplay in being snared 100% of the time while being Xv1ed?. and you don't need snare removal to get away with shadow image into cloak.

I thought that was the whole point of snare removal. Because your fellow NBs were complaining that you can’t get away with Cloak because you’re snared.

if you place a shadow image in a position where you can get away beforehand, yeah. but not when you're in a 1v1 that turns into a 1v20 with no image. and this is only magblade, stamblade has snare removal and immunity already.

I find that fine. MagNB can perma cloak and run, and should do so if they notice more enemies coming into the fray. StamNB has no option to break sight for more than about 6s, which is why they have more escape while under pressure.

If you get caught as a MagNB in a bad spot, you're dead. that's the cost of the ability to freely engage and reengage with your resource pool.

If you want a stamina playstyle but for magicka, gtfo. Just play stamina or build hybrid.

that's what they say but the reality is stamblades can pretty much live in cloak as well not as long as magblades sure, but long enough to where it doesn't matter much.

Forum StamBlades say otherwise. According to them it’s 3 or 4 times max. Maybe the NB community should discuss and state what’s true and what’s not....

That's not true any decent stamblade openworld build can cloak about 5-6 times in a row. Cloak is one of these skills thats either too strong or too weak - its too weak vs the zerg that ALWAYS got that mark bot and too strong vs 1-2 players having no counters(even so thats also their mistake) - I think cloak should be MORE expensive and MARK should be be nerfed(suggesting to nerf a nb skill )

I disagree on Incap nerfs: I dont see nb nearly as strong in the upcoming patch anyways. The spam roll playstyle takes a huge hit with sorc having a high dmg through roll/block CC (that every not braindead sorc will run). My Pts sorc oneshots medium armor stamblades like cyndis (@Ragnaroek93 ) from full HP without even using the meteor combo (that combo oneshots heavy armor builds). The incap will or will incap combo is atleast easy to evade as long as ur not lagging. Imo and many fellow pts testers medium armor will be dead again.

@Subversus test ur sorc on the pts - u will love it

@Derra dont even compare mag sorc and mag nb for the next patch. One class can kill everbody through block/roll another cant

exeeter702 wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Sparky617 wrote: »

If both morphs of strife will have increased cost, then their effectiveness should be increased respectively.
Funnel Health. should do less damage, but have a bigger heal. Also revert back to healing 2 friendly targets.
Swallow soul. should do increased damage, grants minor mending

To what extent? Matching force pulses tool tip damage would then become penetration, increased proc conditions vs ult generation, healing done and minor vitality. As far as ability budget goes, that would be lopsided and bring it back to the issue of why its cost is being changed in the first place.

Again, match the costs of both abilities, reduce that cost to around 2100 magicka base cost. Leave damage values as they are, change funnel to heal for more and deal less damage. And have it heal 2 targets (not guaranteeing the caster will always get the hot). Swallow soul is perfect as is right now and does not need a damage increase.

strife doesn't need to be brought in line with force pulse. force pulse is a weapon skill, strife is a class skill. A class skill should be more unique then a weapons skills that's available to everyone. we shouldn't be nerfing class skills because they may be better than weapons skills, class skills should be better than weapon skills period.

No not period you have a fundamentally flawed belief as to how abilities are weighted and budgeted in this game. No one from zos ever, since the inception of this game, has claimed class skills SHOULD be superior. That is something you came up with in your head.

Class skills, much like all the various analogous abilities in this game, should be unique to one another, not objectively superior to any other.

That is the reailty of the game, it is not an opinion.

because by balancing the nb's class skills to be in line with weapons skills you're actively harming the class. A NB's defenses/survivablity is it's superior resources, resource management and low cost skills it doesn't have insane burst heals, it's not that tanky and it doesn't have shield stacks it has none of these things, not innately. and it don't really need any of those things because it has it's resources and that is the identity of the class the way it's played and the uniqueness of it.

I don't care what class we're talking about, i don't want any of them to be cheapened like this.

You can't just look at class skills against other class skills. Otherwise they might as well remove all skill lines but the class ones!

If you want low cost skills then fine, Nerf the damage the skills can output then or remove the secondary affects or something. Something needs to be adjusted, whether it's the skill damage, utility, cost or even one of the passives that get triggered when using the skill.

Strife doesn't need to be adjusted is the thing. Strife is not what gives Magblades high DPS for DPS Force pulse is objectively better the heal is only good so long as you're spamming the ability the HoT itself is irrelevant and can easily be replaced with something else and better. as people have already said, it's low cost is why you use it over other abilities. it's not gonna get much use if the cost is increased.

Class skills should be more unique then Weapon skills, otherwise what's the point in having unique classes to begin with. not saying weapon skills have to suck but to balance class skills to be in line with weapon skills is just not a good idea. we'll end us with a lack of ingenuity in builds.

Strife will most certainly see use, what are you talking about lol... nb healers, solo builds and pvp setups will absolutely continue tonuse strife. One single build avenue for mag nbs will likely switch to FP.

Your last two entences also make a lick of sense. Each and every skill in this game is designed to function in some way unique. Class skills and weapon skills are equally unique in function, with class skills generally being reinforced themarically with said class. Whats the point of having unique classes? Maybe one small reason is thay scnearios where a class could provide a ranged 28m spell that heals instead of doing max damage. Enough with the cherry picking. Balancing weapon skills (all skills actually) under the same design philosophy is an absolutely critical thing to enforce and is an exceptional idea. Weapin skills, guild sjills world skills are not second rate fillers, they have never been and will continue not to be, they exist to flesh out build options and fill holes where class skills dont offer the desired niche for a particluar build.

I have 3 magblades one of them is a GO. i'm phasing out strife on all my builds.

that's really all i have say on it.

but lol NB healers

Im sorry? Do you find that humerous?

NB healers?, yeah. i mean it's fun to play a NB healer i've played around with it but in no world is a NB healers on the same level as Templar or Warden most groups are gonna be disappointed the NB is not DPSing. when i was playing around with it i got a lot of "oh good..... a nightblade healer, just what we need /sarcasm" XD

I do miss the old Funnel health tho, that was *** fun in both PvE and PvP.

DDuke wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

The nerf to crit heals from shadowy had to occur. We can't have one of the best bursts in the game AND heal decently. Makes no sense. Plus, this will make the unskilled nbs/unbalanced builds easier to kill, which makes me really happy.

That makes Zero sense all classes should have good healing.

Where is the good healing for sorcs then?

I give you both for siphoning attacks

Siphoning Attacks is half the heal of Surge & only applies to (usually dodgeable) light/heavy attacks, where as Surge not only heals for more, but can act as a "heal over time" with a DoT on target.

I don't see in what universe Siphoning Attacks would be a stronger heal, and even for sustain it's extremely unreliable as it can be neutered nigh useless by dodge rolling/cloaking.

Nor does it give Major Brutality/Sorcery, which would be a godsend for non-2H stamblades.

Playing magblade and sorc - given the respective toolkits of both classes surge is absolutely underwhelming compared to siphoning. I´d trade it in an instant for magsorc.
The universe where siphoning is the better heal is pvp practice on ranged magblade/magsorc.
It´s the other way around for stamblade and stamsorc.

Derra, idk if you're thinking rationally here.

Leeching Strikes/Siphoning Attacks in the best case scenario is a 1452 heal for a light/heavy attack, where as Surge is 2500/2970 (depending on morph) heal on every crit.

So even if you're not weaving any abilities (and don't have any DoTs/enchants that can crit) it's worth a minimum 1250 healing/second with 50% crit chance.

Once you start weaving abilities, counting enchants etc the healing from Crit Surge gets way above whatever Siphoning Attacks/Leeching Strikes provides, even against targets that aren't necessarily dodging every single light attack.


So healing wise there's no question which ability is better.
Whether you find the sustain from Siphoning Attacks the determining factor in which is the better skill is another matter entirely (I personally don't, but as you know I rarely care about sustain anyway).

It has nothing to do with rational thinking - as your approach isn´t rational to begin with because you´re setting favorable parameters for your approach (i´ll guarantee you not many sorc builds reach 50% crit)
Siphoning is a safe heal on every lightattack wether you´re offensive or defensive.
Surge is not - especially when you´re defensive because most sorc builds do not have dots.

Having played with highish crit builds and surge - it still gets outclasses by siphoning just by the fact that the heal isn´t safe.
One ability heals you always and you can boost healing when defensive on demand.
The other heals you better but on a % chance and heals worse when being defense.


@Murador178 i´ve made my stance on runecage clear elsewhere - having a discussion on a topic isn´t illegitimate bc of a different unrelated ability. Grow up.

Murador178 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

The nerf to crit heals from shadowy had to occur. We can't have one of the best bursts in the game AND heal decently. Makes no sense. Plus, this will make the unskilled nbs/unbalanced builds easier to kill, which makes me really happy.

That makes Zero sense all classes should have good healing.

Where is the good healing for sorcs then?

I give you both for siphoning attacks

Siphoning Attacks is half the heal of Surge & only applies to (usually dodgeable) light/heavy attacks, where as Surge not only heals for more, but can act as a "heal over time" with a DoT on target.

I don't see in what universe Siphoning Attacks would be a stronger heal, and even for sustain it's extremely unreliable as it can be neutered nigh useless by dodge rolling/cloaking.

Nor does it give Major Brutality/Sorcery, which would be a godsend for non-2H stamblades.

Playing magblade and sorc - given the respective toolkits of both classes surge is absolutely underwhelming compared to siphoning. I´d trade it in an instant for magsorc.
The universe where siphoning is the better heal is pvp practice on ranged magblade/magsorc.
It´s the other way around for stamblade and stamsorc.

Derra, idk if you're thinking rationally here.

Leeching Strikes/Siphoning Attacks in the best case scenario is a 1452 heal for a light/heavy attack, where as Surge is 2500/2970 (depending on morph) heal on every crit.

So even if you're not weaving any abilities (and don't have any DoTs/enchants that can crit) it's worth a minimum 1250 healing/second with 50% crit chance.

Once you start weaving abilities, counting enchants etc the healing from Crit Surge gets way above whatever Siphoning Attacks/Leeching Strikes provides, even against targets that aren't necessarily dodging every single light attack.


So healing wise there's no question which ability is better.
Whether you find the sustain from Siphoning Attacks the determining factor in which is the better skill is another matter entirely (I personally don't, but as you know I rarely care about sustain anyway).

It has nothing to do with rational thinking - as your approach isn´t rational to begin with because you´re setting favorable parameters for your approach (i´ll guarantee you not many sorc builds reach 50% crit)
Siphoning is a safe heal on every lightattack wether you´re offensive or defensive.
Surge is not - especially when you´re defensive because most sorc builds do not have dots.

Having played with highish crit builds and surge - it still gets outclasses by siphoning just by the fact that the heal isn´t safe.
One ability heals you always and you can boost healing when defensive on demand.
The other heals you better but on a % chance and heals worse when being defense.


@Murador178 i´ve made my stance on runecage clear elsewhere - having a discussion on a topic isn´t illegitimate bc of a different unrelated ability. Grow up.

Sorry maybe I don't have the time to read the whole forums everday, thats why u got 10 stars there and I got 3. But of course the guy reading the forums all day needs to tell me I need to grow up .

Since everything you´re able to contribute is and nonsense - probably yeah.

You don´t even need to read everything. Your statement was superfluous either way.

Murador178 wrote: »

runecage stun is broken in a sorc vs nightblade discussion is illegitimate?

If you´d done that i wouldn´t have said anything. But you didn´t.
You declared any comparison between sorc and nb skills (for magica at that) illigitimate because rune cage exists and stamblade do aswell.



On topic of magblade:
I think the cost increase of strife is not going to achieve anything with the introduction of imbue weapon. It seems like a cheap move to force people into buying the expansion if they want to remain competetive.
I´m also unsure about how i feel about ambush/lotusfan breaking stealth now - destroying day1 CC synergy with conceal/suprise attack.
It feels like a totally unasked nerf for melee magica NB (can´t comment on stam).

I think concealed weapon is due to some form of buff in either costreduction/dmg or debuff provided to make the ability worth using in an environment with countless range alternatives (funnel, pulse, imbue, masterreach) that all perform better in most scenarios.

Derra wrote: »

Murador178 wrote: »

runecage stun is broken in a sorc vs nightblade discussion is illegitimate?

If you´d done that i wouldn´t have said anything. But you didn´t.
You declared any comparison between sorc and nb skills (for magica at that) illigitimate because rune cage exists and stamblade do aswell.



On topic of magblade:
I think the cost increase of strife is not going to achieve anything with the introduction of imbue weapon. It seems like a cheap move to force people into buying the expansion if they want to remain competetive.
I´m also unsure about how i feel about ambush/lotusfan breaking stealth now - destroying day1 CC synergy with conceal/suprise attack.
It feels like a totally unasked nerf for melee magica NB (can´t comment on stam).

I think concealed weapon is due to some form of buff in either costreduction/dmg or debuff provided to make the ability worth using in an environment with countless range alternatives (funnel, pulse, imbue, masterreach) that all perform better in most scenarios.

I made a suggestion a while ago to make concealed weapon let all light attacks scale with magicka/ spelldamage etc.
However with the changes Magnb is absolutely broken and bringing meele magnb on the same level doesn't solve anything except for making both op

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

However with the changes Magnb is absolutely broken and bringing meele magnb on the same level doesn't solve anything except for making both op

What do you mean is broken op about magNB on pts? PvE or PvP side of things?

PvP wise.
With potion cooldown glyphs, LA changes, shade changes, strife weave buff and staff changes Magnb is absolutely ridiculous.