Anti_Virus wrote: »

Krotha wrote: »

I've only played a Orc Stam DK for 4 years. I love it.

Here are some changes I'd like to see to Stam DK to open up more build varieties:

- Stamina Cost CC <--- biggest thing to rebuild DKs imo
- One Stamina Cost Draconic Power Ability (specifically talons)
- Noxious breath increases poison dmg similar to engulfing flames.
- Reapplying venomous claw on a target provides a burst damage equivalent to the dmg done on that target (think like how
Rally applies a burst heal, this could be the solution that every stam DK wants for a class execute.
- OR venomous claw heals based on dmg done to target just like burning embers
- OR venomous claw becomes unpurgeable so that the entire damage duration buff increase actually applies to a target
before being purged.
- Corrosive Armor and Standard need their ultimate cost reduced. Corrosive 175. Standard back to 200.
- Fix Take Flight. Fix Take Flight. Fix Take Flight.
- And for the love of all that is holy reduce the magicka cost of earthern heart abilities.

Stamina DK will be fine next patch. Expect to see many more SB/2H builds. I will keep the DW/2H playstyle alive.

Choking talons(Dark Talons Morph) change to deal poison damge or physical damage and cost stamina.

Deep breath(Inhale Morph) converts to stamina and deals poison damage.

Hardend Armor(Spiked Armor morph) now deals physical/poison damge on damge returns.

Igneous Weapons(Molten Armaments Morph)
Gains major brutality instead of major sorcery increases Light attack damage by 10%

Elder Dragon( Dragonic Power Passive)
Grants 5% Health Magicka and Stamina recovery per ability slotted.

I'd have some issues with the chocking talons and deep breath suggestions. on my tank i like that chocking inflicts minor maim and costs magicka so its not a strain on my stamina.

The deep breath idea id rather have done on the draw essence morph for the same reason as chocking talons (my tank uses it) and simply because i think the magicka return for each target hit is really lack luster. Ive tried it on my MDK and its wasn't enough to give up the interrupt.

I 100% agree with the Igneous Weapons idea since the added major brutality is useless for DD's. DW and 2H have far better skills for getting major brutality (Rally/forward momentum, Flying Blade/Shrouded Daggers). This would make this skill actually appealing again and combining it with Imbue would add some offensive capabilities to the Stamdk kit without the need for ZOS to convert other skills to stamina versions.

AddictionX wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Krotha wrote: »

I've only played a Orc Stam DK for 4 years. I love it.

Here are some changes I'd like to see to Stam DK to open up more build varieties:

- Stamina Cost CC <--- biggest thing to rebuild DKs imo
- One Stamina Cost Draconic Power Ability (specifically talons)
- Noxious breath increases poison dmg similar to engulfing flames.
- Reapplying venomous claw on a target provides a burst damage equivalent to the dmg done on that target (think like how
Rally applies a burst heal, this could be the solution that every stam DK wants for a class execute.
- OR venomous claw heals based on dmg done to target just like burning embers
- OR venomous claw becomes unpurgeable so that the entire damage duration buff increase actually applies to a target
before being purged.
- Corrosive Armor and Standard need their ultimate cost reduced. Corrosive 175. Standard back to 200.
- Fix Take Flight. Fix Take Flight. Fix Take Flight.
- And for the love of all that is holy reduce the magicka cost of earthern heart abilities.

Stamina DK will be fine next patch. Expect to see many more SB/2H builds. I will keep the DW/2H playstyle alive.

Choking talons(Dark Talons Morph) change to deal poison damge or physical damage and cost stamina.

Deep breath(Inhale Morph) converts to stamina and deals poison damage.

Hardend Armor(Spiked Armor morph) now deals physical/poison damge on damge returns.

Igneous Weapons(Molten Armaments Morph)
Gains major brutality instead of major sorcery increases Light attack damage by 10%

Elder Dragon( Dragonic Power Passive)
Grants 5% Health Magicka and Stamina recovery per ability slotted.

I'd have some issues with the chocking talons and deep breath suggestions. on my tank i like that chocking inflicts minor maim and costs magicka so its not a strain on my stamina.

The deep breath idea id rather have done on the draw essence morph for the same reason as chocking talons (my tank uses it) and simply because i think the magicka return for each target hit is really lack luster. Ive tried it on my MDK and its wasn't enough to give up the interrupt.

I 100% agree with the Igneous Weapons idea since the added major brutality is useless for DD's. DW and 2H have far better skills for getting major brutality (Rally/forward momentum, Flying Blade/Shrouded Daggers). This would make this skill actually appealing again and combining it with Imbue would add some offensive capabilities to the Stamdk kit without the need for ZOS to convert other skills to stamina versions.

Wizard's riposte requires nothing done by the user to grant the 15% maim.

I believe Riposte works on crits and I believe NPCs cannot crit. Which is why I believe they want it to remain magicka based.


Personally I would love a stamina talons or stamina breath. Anything I can add to my kit that isn't another projectile.

I would like Igneous to keep Brutality as I use it. However I'm certainly for some sort of damage benefit, especially if they want to leave it at 4k+ magicka cost.

Aquanova wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Krotha wrote: »

I've only played a Orc Stam DK for 4 years. I love it.

Here are some changes I'd like to see to Stam DK to open up more build varieties:

- Stamina Cost CC <--- biggest thing to rebuild DKs imo
- One Stamina Cost Draconic Power Ability (specifically talons)
- Noxious breath increases poison dmg similar to engulfing flames.
- Reapplying venomous claw on a target provides a burst damage equivalent to the dmg done on that target (think like how
Rally applies a burst heal, this could be the solution that every stam DK wants for a class execute.
- OR venomous claw heals based on dmg done to target just like burning embers
- OR venomous claw becomes unpurgeable so that the entire damage duration buff increase actually applies to a target
before being purged.
- Corrosive Armor and Standard need their ultimate cost reduced. Corrosive 175. Standard back to 200.
- Fix Take Flight. Fix Take Flight. Fix Take Flight.
- And for the love of all that is holy reduce the magicka cost of earthern heart abilities.

Stamina DK will be fine next patch. Expect to see many more SB/2H builds. I will keep the DW/2H playstyle alive.

Choking talons(Dark Talons Morph) change to deal poison damge or physical damage and cost stamina.

Deep breath(Inhale Morph) converts to stamina and deals poison damage.

Hardend Armor(Spiked Armor morph) now deals physical/poison damge on damge returns.

Igneous Weapons(Molten Armaments Morph)
Gains major brutality instead of major sorcery increases Light attack damage by 10%

Elder Dragon( Dragonic Power Passive)
Grants 5% Health Magicka and Stamina recovery per ability slotted.

I'd have some issues with the chocking talons and deep breath suggestions. on my tank i like that chocking inflicts minor maim and costs magicka so its not a strain on my stamina.

The deep breath idea id rather have done on the draw essence morph for the same reason as chocking talons (my tank uses it) and simply because i think the magicka return for each target hit is really lack luster. Ive tried it on my MDK and its wasn't enough to give up the interrupt.

I 100% agree with the Igneous Weapons idea since the added major brutality is useless for DD's. DW and 2H have far better skills for getting major brutality (Rally/forward momentum, Flying Blade/Shrouded Daggers). This would make this skill actually appealing again and combining it with Imbue would add some offensive capabilities to the Stamdk kit without the need for ZOS to convert other skills to stamina versions.

I have to disagree with the draw essence vs deep breath. In PvP DeepB is useless due to the new interrupt changes and in PvE the interrupt only comes in handy in a few occasions where the interrupt can also easily be done by the other players around.
DrawE however is a great skill to provide the brawler image of DKs that Zos loves to promote all the time. It gives you good cost reduction and gets better the more enemies you fight. The interrupt is so useless most of the time as a normal bash often does the job just as good while the other morph always gives you something when fighting.

Green Dragons Blood: Heal for 33 percent of missing health!

Draw on your draconic blood to heal for 33% of your missing Health.

You also gain Major Fortitude, increasing Health Recovery by 20% for 20 seconds.

You also gain Major Endurance and Minor Vitality.

COST: 4320 MAGICKA! TO GET THE BUFF Healing only on MISSING health! So 12% from passive plus 8% for minor vitality.

Fragmented Shield
COST: 4050! Magicka for 3 seconds major mending buff.

The only way for DK to reliably get to get major vitality is through potions or 2 piece set.

VS

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Nightblade

[*]Dark Cloak (Shadow Cloak morph): This morph no longer grants invisibility; instead it heals you for 32% of your Max Health over 3 seconds and grants Minor Protection for the duration.

WTF!

With 56 cp into quick recovery + 56 cp into blessed = 43% of max health NOT MISSING HEALTH full benefit off the bat! A magicka vigor that doesn't require you to be Stamina or Magicka spec. Add even major mending(25% healing done) = 51%!

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Soul+Siphon
Cast Time Instant (3.5s)
Range 15m radius
Cost 150 Ultimate
Sanctify your soul and the souls of nearby allies with a night rune, healing for 1193 Health and an additional 3232 Health over 4 seconds.
You and your allies will also receive Major Vitality, increasing your healing received by 30% for 4 seconds.
An ally can target a nearby enemy and activate the Soul Leech synergy dealing 1104 Magic Damage to them and healing for damaged caused. Heals you and nearby allies but deals no damage and no longer stuns.

Major vitality +30% or
Scorge harvester Which is more reliable doesn't cost an ultimate.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Scourge+Harvester+Set
(2 items) When you take damage, you have a 6% chance to create a beam that steals 5805 Health over 4 seconds from the attacker. The beam breaks from enemy moves further than 8 meters away. While the beam holds gain 30% increased healing received. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.


http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Essence+Drain
Passive
Rank II: You gain Major Mending for 3 seconds after completing a fully-charged Heavy Attack, increasing your healing done by 25%

You also heal yourself or a nearby ally to the target for 30% of the damage inflicted by the final hit of a fully-charged Heavy Attack.


http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Swallow+Soul
Cast Time Instant (10s)
Range 28m range
Cost 2700 Magicka
Steal an enemy’s life force, dealing 742 Magic Damage and healing you for 25% of the damage inflicted every 2 seconds for 10 seconds.

While slotted, you gain Minor Vitality, increasing your healing received by 8%.

While slotted you gain Minor Vitality, increasing your healing received. cost for minor vitality buff = 0!

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Healthy+Offering
Cast Time Instant (30s)
Range 28m range
(Cone)
Cost 459 Health
Sacrifice your essence, healing an ally in front of you for 1233 Health but draining 567 of your own Health over 8 seconds.

While your Health is being drained you gain Minor Mending, increasing your healing done by 8%

Increasing your healing done for the duration.

And here we are trying to ASK FOR SCRAPS OFF THE FLOOR!

I mainly talk about the PvE issues for DKs.

First of all, let´s start with MagDK. Many people complain that DKs got sustain buffs and all the other classes received nerfs. If you ever bothered with PvE you would know MagDK couldn´t sustain *** all since the Morrowind changes were made. And yes the combustion passive helps out a little bit with that, but sustain will still be an issue. While both stamina and magicka NBs can easily sustain a 6Million dummy without doing heavy attacks, MagDKs already struggle on 3mil. I´m not saying all the other classes are fine, I´m simply comparing DKs to NBs, because what we see in endgame PvE atm is a raid full of Nightblades.

Now there are a few possibilities to fix things for DKs and make it easier, by not changing things dramatically. Change Battle Roar back to what it was, it was fantastic, it felt good and it was both, useful for tanks and DDs. It helped sustain a lot and by just nerfing this passive and not providing an alternative combined with the CP changes in Morrowind, MagDK was just in a horrible spot until now. I mentioned combustion, well it isn´t fantastic but a step in the right direction, if you change it around a little bit, so the proc comes with fire/poison dmg instead of the status effect, this would actually pretty decent, not OP, but not too weak either. Together with Battle Roar as it used to be, it would definitely help DKs a lot.

There is also some abilities like Eruption, it is super expensive and deals very little damage. If you compare this skill with Twisting Path, for example, you can do nothing else but laugh. I mean a snare is not a great bonus effect in PvE anyway and PvPers won't use this skill, because people will simply run out of it very quickly as the radius isn´t huge. But things like this could be addressed later, first of all, make MagDK sustain better and give them back their spot in trials, so we don´t just see full NB raids.

This wouldn't require any changes to class abilities nor would it affect other classes. It would simply benefit DKs and make them a viable choice in PvE. I also don't think this would be overperforming in PvP, yes MagDKs are strong, but a little bit more sustain would not break the class.

Now StamDK: With the changes to off-balance made in Dragon Bones DLC, StamDK got hit quite hard in PvE. Well, it won´t be much better next patch with further nerfs affecting all Stamina Classes; while DKs still had a good spot being a debuff *** in Trials, due to the fact that they do a lot of heavy attacks, which made it easy to keep up Sunderflame for example, we will probably not see many DKs next patch, with the alterings made to Sunder and NMG. Now I don´t want them to just leave Sunderflame and NMG as it is, I just want to mention that again, sustain buffs would also help out StamDKs. With the ability to sustain a light attack rotation they might be viable and not just left behind. This brings me back to what I mentioned for MagDK.

However, I have no idea how to make StamDK better in PvP, but I reckon a lot of people here already suggested many good ideas. I wish these forums weren´t just there to keep us occupied, but to actually listen to us and try to fix things together with the community. I mean perfect balance won't be achievable anyway, there will always be a "meta" but trying to bring things in line, or at least making them playable would be awesome.

Cheers

AddictionX wrote: »

MISSING HEALTH vs Healing on MAX HEALTH off the bat. Are you serious? That you can't see this on a health stacked tank? Or a MAGICKA nightblade Tank that has access to damage BURST in their SKILL TREES that other tanks dont have? Besides the fact that this is completely broken on a tank.

Let me explain it Healing with dragons blood is INSTANT based on MISSING HEALTH!

Are you saying this is NOT a magicka version of VIGOR?

I feel like this complaint belongs more in the Nightblade section, or maybe it's own thread to be swallowed up by the many other singular issues. So here my unwarranted opinion about this.

Glad to see so many ideas from different perspective now if only we could have a representative of our class compile this and present this when they visit ZOS to discuss this classes future.

AddictionX wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

i like how we can't have any discussion about stamdk in pve because everything is drowned out by pvp discussion

oh well

For the most part sDK is fine in PVE, the new bloodthirsty trait for jewelry might bring them down on the dps totem though.

It will for sure bring them down to the bottom of the dps pool, only above Warden. Aside from Warden, it will be all stam/mag dps > StamDK. Frankly, this sucks. I main a StamDK, which I've put a lot of effort into, and I don't want to feel like I'm dead weight once a trial boss hits 25%, but that seems to be where Summerset is taking us.

I don't know if it's "fine", certainly viable, but not something people will be jumping at the chance to play. I have pvp'd a small amount on my StamDK, and while it's not enough to offer as much input as a lot here, I felt like it suffered from identity issues just as it does in pve. I see SDK as a pressure-based dps class, with pressure in the form of dots (claw, breath), but at the same time (correct me if I'm wrong) claw can just be purged off and breath is unreliable/can also be purged off.

StamDK could use a bit more in the pressure department while adding more class identity (more dot pressure, poison?) to flesh out the class a bit. I don't really have a great idea as to how this would be implemented though. For PVP, if I'm correct about claw/breath being purgeable, why not start with just making the dots unable to be removed?

I doubt it'd be that bad. IIRC StamDK was parsing 70k on that test they did. (Where MDK was top with 73k) but they might not be top dog anymore, since you can't get super-optimized groups with NMG/Sunder/Morag. Stamplar and warden will still parse less. On the upside, StamDK has a really easy rotation, which will be better for certain mechanic heavy fights.

I'll believe 70k stamdk when I see it. StamDK is also not the best dps currently, so I'm having a hard time understanding how it could be 3k under the "best".

edit: just to put things into perspective due to how strong bloodthirsty is right now, stamdk would have to be well above other dps with executes before the sub 25 execute phase to be that high. I've never seen a 50m dummy melt sub 25% as fast as I did the other night when my guild did a group parse.

edit again: The only way I could see this being possible is with some kind of atypical gear combination I'm unaware of that's specific to Summerset/jewelry crafting.

The 70k was on the dev test, with 100% uptime on all the buffs. Both will be hitting less, but its not like stamDK will be useless

AddictionX wrote: »

Green Dragons Blood: Heal for 33 percent of missing health.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Nightblade

[*]Dark Cloak (Shadow Cloak morph): This morph no longer grants invisibility; instead it heals you for 32% of your Max Health over 3 seconds and grants Minor Protection for the duration.

WTF!

Instant vs not instant. GDB is better for tanks, who might be in a tight spot. You cast dark cloak, and keep getting bombarded at low health, then their might be issues.

Did you just ignore everything I wrote?!

Heals on Missing Health vs Healing on MAX HEALTH off the bat. See this on a health stacked tank? Or a MAGICKA nightblade Tank that has access to damage BURST in their SKILL TREES that other tanks dont have? Besides the fact that this is completely broken on a tank.

Let me explain it Healing with dragons blood is instant based on MISSING HEALTH! So for it to act as a burst heal you need to be dying and generally, if someone is dying you is because you're out of resources in the first place!

The issue is don't need to be at low health to make use of this you can cast it and get a vigor like heal. Low health? Just shield stack and use this and your up to full. Block and wait till you're healed up. Dodge till you're hp is topped off.

Are you saying this is NOT a magicka version of VIGOR?

very large difference between Healing on Missing health vs Healing on Max health.

@AddictionX

No. I did not miss what you are saying. You don't have to be out of resources for it to be useful as a tank. There are hits that take you down to sub 40%. There are also times, like if you are running 3dd, where you have no healer, so will be low health (even down to 20%) a lot. A burst heal is much better to get you out of the dangerzone. Not to mention major mending and a shield from igneous and DK healing passives. For PvE, both will be good, but in different ways. A DK tank is still preferred because of good dual stat sustain, and the better pull.

As for the mythic magNB tank that runs burst damage. Haha what.

Every tank has to spec high enough into health to stop being 1shot, and high enough into resource recovery, that their damage will be nearly null, their bars and sets will be full of group support that then lowers it further. (I assume the shield stacking/dodge is PvP related, but if not, then read on) That goes same for NB shields, due to low mag, and the ability to dodge, which no sane tank will do anyway since the boss will move with you, and jeopardize the group and lower DPS if it moves out of certain AoEs/melee range.

So PvP, due to the mention of shieldstacking or dodging. This won't be great either. Most NBs run around 25k health, some even lower. This 33% health translates to 11% every second, or in PvP 5.5% every second. (Unless its 4 ticks, one on cast then over 3s) If the former, then you get 1375 health per second for 3s. If the latter, you get 1031 health per second over 3s+initial. Not far from a mag vigor in plain ticks, but less healing, less length, high cost, and loss of shadow cloak for defense. Cauterize is better.

TL;DR: Your post is wrong, and you have shown quite obviously.

ecru wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

For everyone saying DK needs unpurgeable dots.
Nope that's bad game design.
1. there is one class that has access to a viable purge. The alliance war purge isn't viable it costs 5.4k mag with the cheap morph if you are running cost poisons they are looking at costs of ~7k and then they only remove 2 effects. That's not much and it is much better for the DK than for the guy trying to purge everything. With magdk and stamdk you have so many debuffs on your enemy that someone spamming efficent purge will waste all his magicka before he has removed all the dots. You can simply reapply them while also doing damage, someone spamming purge is draining his resources and he isn't gonna actively healing (only HoTs) so this is the time you want to use your burst which Magdk has lots of if you know how to play the class. Stamdk not so much but we talked about that #stamspammableforDK

There is one mirror match up for DK and that is mag templar.
This match up is decided by player skill and using mistakes of your enemy to win the fight.
If one player doesn't really want to lose he won't but he can't force to win the fight on the other hand as well.
If you bring a templar to spam purge that is a good thing, he drains his resources and you can easily apply your dots again afterwards, he's just buying time and we can use that time to pressure them more by trying to burst them as the magplar currently focuses on purging.

Unpurgeable Dots or Dots which inflict the whole damage when they get purged are a bad idea as they punish counterplay or completely remove also they open up new issues where you can force templars to never use their class defining ability.

If it's bad game design, every mmo besides ESO is badly designed. Saying you can "just reapply dots" completely misses the point. Yes, you can just reapply them, and they can just be purged off again. And again. And again. What do you do vs a group or multiple targets that has multiple people purging? You're thinking too small, not every scenario is 1v1.

Also, I don't think anyone has suggested that all of their damage should be inflicted if they are purged off, just that there is some kind of penalty for mitigating that much damage with one press of a button.

You really can't have a dot-based class while giving every person/every group the ability to just remove dots over and over again. Other games have realized this, ESO hasn't.

What has to be considered here is the cost of purging vs the amount of damage they are mitigating. When you think of purge as a heal instead, the amount of damage it's "healing" for (or mitigating) is absurd.

Only stamdk relies on dots. Magdk has great burst which gets complimented by the dots of the class.
Also purge doesn't remove just dots the majority of things removed are useless debuffs and snares.

AddictionX wrote: »

Especially liked that Claw one where reapplying or purging it causes the DOT to hit at once with the remainder or the damage done.

Ofc making it deal all the remaining dmg if reapplied sounds neat.
I want the same feature for every dot

NBrookus wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Choking talons(Dark Talons Morph) change to deal poison damge or physical damage and cost stamina.

This is the only access to Minor Maim that DK has.

Templars have no source of Maim, and fewer (and worse) self-heals than mDKs for that matter, and we get along. Riposte is a more reliable source of Maim anyway.

Yes well templars are also in need of love so please let's not balance DKs by comparing them to templars! I disagree that templar heals are worse per se; they are just harder to incorporate while staying aggressive.

Personally I'd rank magplar viability below magDK right now in PVP.

Anyway Choking is a major tank PVE skill.

Anti_Virus wrote: »

@NBrookus @Aquanova

-I see your concers with Choking talons maybe move minor main to burning talons and replace it with sonething else? I would really love this skill to be used by stam Dks.

Burning Talons is the "damage" morph and Choking the "tank" morph. I kinda doubt they'd add Minor Main to Burning without dialing back the damage, and magicka needs the damage.

Perhaps a better solution would be to rework Petrify. Make Shattering Rocks do physical damage and cost stamina, and still sets enemies nearby off-balance. Then give Fossilize it's range back. They can take the root off Fossilize to balance it, but the tiny range is straight up garbage on a magDK when almost every class can easily kite a magDK.

Stam whip I always kind of have issues with. Stam already has access to a huge range of stamina damage abilities via weapon lines. Magicka has class abilities and destro, that's it.

So you have a problem with stam talons and inhale aswell as stam whip too?

Why? You explained stam whip which I disagree with(couldn't this arguement be used with templar and NB and look what they got) but why stam talons and breath? Are youna selfish mDk that wants to hoard skills for mDk sake? Or am I missing something which morph would you be willing to give up for stam DK in terms of talons and Inhale like Stam Dk gave up one morph of leap.

Aedaryl wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@BohnT
I would also suggest changing battle roar to scale with your max stat i.e when using an ultimate that is 100+ you regain 25% of your max resources, when using an ultimate that is 200+ you regain 50% of your max resources.

I feel it may be op but what do you feel about that idea?

I think the current battle roar has something over the old one and that is that you get so much resources back for your off stat.
Also increasing the return on the individual usage might have a bad influence as you are forced to spam your ultimate to get decent sustain.
I'd like it more to increase the ultimate Regeneration of DKs so you aren't as punished for spamming ultimates as we are right now due to the lowest ultigen in the game for all classes

You don't have the lowest ulti regen of all class, please stop it.

magSorcerer and magtemplar have the worst ulti regen, not DK.

You need to look at effective regen.

A sorcerer for offense need to use Meteor, that cost 170 ultimate VS a DK leap that cost 125.

Same for a resto ultimate, the DK will have it before.

And anything stam can have minor heroism.

Magplar has the same 0.5 ult per second as magdk but has 4% cost reduction on top.

Let's compare the same base cost ults for both classes when talking magdk and magsorc.

Ulti regen base: 3/s from LA

Magsorc: 170/3/s= 56.67s
Magdk: 200/3.5/s = 57.14s

125 (Dbos):
Sorc: 106/3/s= 35.42s
DK: 125/3.5/s= 35.72s

100 (Soulassault)
Sorc: 85/3/s=28.33s
DK: 100/3.5/s= 28.57s


Sorc in pvp has even better ulti gain through alliance war passive+ endless fury but we won't take that into account now.

Anti_Virus wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Choking talons(Dark Talons Morph) change to deal poison damge or physical damage and cost stamina.

This is the only access to Minor Maim that DK has.

Templars have no source of Maim, and fewer (and worse) self-heals than mDKs for that matter, and we get along. Riposte is a more reliable source of Maim anyway.

Yes well templars are also in need of love so please let's not balance DKs by comparing them to templars! I disagree that templar heals are worse per se; they are just harder to incorporate while staying aggressive.

Personally I'd rank magplar viability below magDK right now in PVP.

Anyway Choking is a major tank PVE skill.

Anti_Virus wrote: »

@NBrookus @Aquanova

-I see your concers with Choking talons maybe move minor main to burning talons and replace it with sonething else? I would really love this skill to be used by stam Dks.

Burning Talons is the "damage" morph and Choking the "tank" morph. I kinda doubt they'd add Minor Main to Burning without dialing back the damage, and magicka needs the damage.

Perhaps a better solution would be to rework Petrify. Make Shattering Rocks do physical damage and cost stamina, and still sets enemies nearby off-balance. Then give Fossilize it's range back. They can take the root off Fossilize to balance it, but the tiny range is straight up garbage on a magDK when almost every class can easily kite a magDK.

Stam whip I always kind of have issues with. Stam already has access to a huge range of stamina damage abilities via weapon lines. Magicka has class abilities and destro, that's it.

So you have a problem with stam talons and inhale aswell as stam whip too?

Why? You explained stam whip which I disagree with(couldn't this arguement be used with templar and NB and look what they got) but why stam talons and breath? Are youna selfish mDk that wants to hoard skills for mDk sake? Or am I missing something which morph would you be willing to give up for stam DK in terms of talons and Inhale like Stam Dk gave up one morph of leap.

Stamdk needs more burst and inhale and a stam spammable are really needed.

A stam inhale could heal for less but deal more damage on the second hit (burst for pvp)
---> deep breath is better to change as it's lackluster for most encounters especially pvp and in pve the same things can be done by other players

Stamspammable:
Stamina whip, high damage single target noxious breath are the only skills i can think of which can become this.
No earthen heart abilities as we still have the helping hands passive which is a problem with cost reduction and overall cost of the skill.


I really liked stam talons but the issue really is both morphs serve a good purpose and it nerfs one playstyle if you change them. My only idea is making the base morph deal physical damage with a poison dot like burning talons.
This would give everyone a skill to choose from without nerfing any playstyle.

Anti_Virus wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Choking talons(Dark Talons Morph) change to deal poison damge or physical damage and cost stamina.

This is the only access to Minor Maim that DK has.

Templars have no source of Maim, and fewer (and worse) self-heals than mDKs for that matter, and we get along. Riposte is a more reliable source of Maim anyway.

Yes well templars are also in need of love so please let's not balance DKs by comparing them to templars! I disagree that templar heals are worse per se; they are just harder to incorporate while staying aggressive.

Personally I'd rank magplar viability below magDK right now in PVP.

Anyway Choking is a major tank PVE skill.

Anti_Virus wrote: »

@NBrookus @Aquanova

-I see your concers with Choking talons maybe move minor main to burning talons and replace it with sonething else? I would really love this skill to be used by stam Dks.

Burning Talons is the "damage" morph and Choking the "tank" morph. I kinda doubt they'd add Minor Main to Burning without dialing back the damage, and magicka needs the damage.

Perhaps a better solution would be to rework Petrify. Make Shattering Rocks do physical damage and cost stamina, and still sets enemies nearby off-balance. Then give Fossilize it's range back. They can take the root off Fossilize to balance it, but the tiny range is straight up garbage on a magDK when almost every class can easily kite a magDK.

Stam whip I always kind of have issues with. Stam already has access to a huge range of stamina damage abilities via weapon lines. Magicka has class abilities and destro, that's it.

So you have a problem with stam talons and inhale aswell as stam whip too?

Why? You explained stam whip which I disagree with(couldn't this arguement be used with templar and NB and look what they got) but why stam talons and breath? Are youna selfish mDk that wants to hoard skills for mDk sake? Or am I missing something which morph would you be willing to give up for stam DK in terms of talons and Inhale like Stam Dk gave up one morph of leap.

Because gutting mDK to buff stamDK is not the solution. If stam DK has everything magDK has, there's no reason to play magDK. Whip is THE iconic magDK skill. I

Both morphs of talons are important and used extensively; one is for Damage and the other for Tanks.

A stam inhale would be fine but taking the good morph and leaving the other morph which isn't that good? Bad choice. The whole skill needs a rework if they want a stam inhale.

I think the stam version of petrify I suggested would be really a huge buff for stamDK, especially with the Exploiter passive, which is in a tree magicka users can't really use. And with the Earthen Heart Passives, it activates Minor Brutality, generates Ultimate and gives back stamina. So one buff improves damage and sustain while giving stamDKs better access to a strong CC.