Stam Sorcerer Concerns (PvP)

Pinja · April 2018

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

General
Rebalanced the Light and Heavy Attack damage scaling ratios so that Light and Heavy Attacks now scale their damage in the same way that normal abilities do – Max Magicka and Max Stamina is now a greater contributing factor towards their damage.

Rebalanced Light and Heavy Attack damage across weapon types to reinforce the concept that Light Attacks are for dealing damage and Heavy Attacks are for restoring resources. In general, this means:
Light Attacks with One Hand and Shield, Dual Wield, Bow, Destruction Staff, and Restoration Staff weapons will deal more damage.

Light Attacks with Two Handed weapons will deal less damage.

Heavy Attacks with Destruction Staff and Restoration Staff weapons will deal more damage.

Heavy Attacks with Two Handed, One Hand and Shield, Dual Wield, and Bow weapons will deal less damage.

Sorcerer

Daedric Summoning
Bound Armor: This ability and its morphs are no longer toggle abilities. Slotting Bound Armor will continue to grant you an increase to Max Magicka, and activating these abilities will increase the amount of damage you can block by 20% for 3 seconds.

Bound Aegis (Bound Armor morph): This morph now grants Minor Ward and Minor Resolve while it is slotted.

Bound Armaments (Bound Armor morph): This morph converts the ability into a Stamina ability and now increases your damage done with Light Attacks while slotted, instead of Heavy Attacks.

Weapon
Dual Wield

Deadly Cloak (Blade Cloak morph): Reduced the damage done by this morph by approximately 15%.

Rending Slashes (Twin Slashes morph): The snare applied by this morph now reduces Movement Speed by 40%, down from 50%.

[/list]

There's been a few sustain changes that has made Cyrodiil, pretty brutal on all my toon's builds. This Is by far my biggest issue.
Faced in moments in battleground or at unburst keeps, unhindered enemy respawns with morrowind sustain changes made for really bad Pvp.
As a hardened Cyrodiilic my solution to these sustain changes was not to switch to warden, with it's Major and Minor Bull Netch brutality producing endurance... As I still wanted to progress my alliance rank on a character. Instead I opted to pull threw with heavy attacks on a character that got destroyed in the "Worst Crystal Nerf..." As I take time to come up with and groom original builds that get reduced here or there that crystal utility nerf destroyed my character completely. (Aside from crafting, though jewelry crafting ops to temporally belittle it's function.) As a back-up character from the precaution of a previous shield nerf, I had a Stam sorc lying around. After months of grooming I've finally gotten it to the base level of end game competitive play. Still out classed by far for an obscene amount of reasons.
It relies on weapon abilities as it's core damage.
A 15% Nerf deadly cloak is not worth the five extra seconds it'll save a raid team in comparison to my competitiveness.
Nor a heavy attack damage nerf vs my pressure and sustain.
Both these nerfs erk the **** out of me because there little, petty, and redundant.

Reason for heavy attacks; 'We want to make sure people know the difference.'

I want to elaborate some logic, you want to teach people who aren't paying attention to parse damage numbers by changing their damage numbers.
Granted this will make them worse, if you didn't 110% sure buff the damage of heavy & light attacks to not make them worse.
In a hypothetical, Pve if they didn't notice, maybe they'll notice type deal... That just hit up Pvp as utter bull ***.

Other classes maybe aren't effected as bad because they actually have damage abilities. I don't.
My build is supper reliant on heavy attack sustain, without Heavy armor, without SnB(Reduce cost block,) without being a warden or resto magic character.
The best idea I got told in a joke from someone else was run ice Staff... Too bad I need weapon abilities.

To say I get stuff done on a hair in comparison to other classes. Most time It's just a luck proc of the 1 in 17 chance implosion. Like a proc from the 1 in 17 global attacks I do, only if your below 15% health. The 1 attack out of 17 attacks that I did while your at 15%. Needless to say there are fights I win the fight to not win the fight run out of resources and die knowing I won that fight. And I won that fight not because my character does a lot of damage; or because I didn't get lucky with a proc; But, because this is Cyrodiil and I wrecked you well enough for a team mate to finish you with a better character, T-bag and pick me up. Like you just got wrecked by a level 10 or stam sorc not sure which is worst. Really though in a class v class duel a Stam sorc is underhanded completely and totally.
As Pvp'r I get my kills, I also get neglected in patches...
To understand cyrodiil first understand how dangerous the conflicts are in it. As a master of the realm, I'll tell you no class needs a nerf in it as the end game there will disappear. Not even wardens need one, who are holding the old competitive luster the other classes may have had once.
I'll save it for another post else were; But look, I don't need.

Heavy attacks are to damage. Damage over time per second will do better with light attacks as is, on live, off PTS. It's why Pve players do it in their copy pasta rotation. Pve secrets aren't really a supper closed competitive field like Pvp someone will share, the internet sure does.
Heavy attack off balance changes still befuddle some PvE'rs. Upset some dks... But still should be given as a review of needlessly changing heavy attack systems that are not 110% sure for the better.

Reviewing the 15% nerf on deadly cloak, many raiders wouldn't have even correlated/noticed the difference in dps if I/you hadn't said anything about.
Late game melee knows how to survive ya, but if they don't dps & score drops. If they need to move Dps drops. Not trying to say somone's math is off but it's a difference of seconds vs the quality of my gameplay.
My build took a 40% Crit rush nerf and the performance went noticeably downward. Now it relies that I weave more light and heavies and another damage nerf may kill it's competitiveness.
I don't End game PvE, but I was told my whole aspiring concept of Malestrum daggers wasn't even late game PvE any more. The guy who explained it to me said some stuff about a NB rotation but I don't know what to do besides rapid strikes. Needless to say ***'s bleak.

Maybe adding major fracture to hurricane would compensate/ adding Major Endurance to Bound Armaments.
Or class change tokens, if we're going pay to win, my character wants in...

Pinja · April 2018

I found another thread on similar subject.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/404481/rip-bound-armaments-and-stamsorcs/p1
This is one of those things were there's a small dying percentage screaming and being kill off in the corner.

I was also wondering why/if the Minor Reslove would stay on the base ability. Like why would the magic morph need the resolve to omit our use for the other. It's not like standered morph flexibility. Bound aegis is not for stam toons at all. Also why would magic Sorcs need it when resistances no longer apply to wards.
It's not a solid design.

Rohamad_Ali · April 2018

I haven't tested but I do not like Bound armor no longer toggled in principle . Sorc have already had shields nerfed down to seconds over and over and now another ability is being given a tiny duration that use to always be up and forget . This going to add more constant buffing of Def in my rotations which will theoretically imo lower my dps in the end to compensate . Not to mention losing the super cool purple flames animation is enough to make me raise my voice to Wrobel saying WTH ?!

Anyways excellent write up and great assessments . Easy to digest for this one unable to test .

Pinja · April 2018

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I haven't tested but I do not like Bound armor no longer toggled in principle . Sorc have already had shields nerfed down to seconds over and over and now another ability is being given a tiny duration that use to always be up and forget . This going to add more constant buffing of Def in my rotations which will theoretically imo lower my dps in the end to compensate . Not to mention losing the super cool purple flames animation is enough to make me raise my voice to Wrobel saying WTH ?!

Anyways excellent write up and great assessments . Easy to digest for this one unable to test .

Thinking about that having to activate it as another ability in combat to compensate is costly on sustain. Even if you know how to time the seconds, you'll be running out.
Could have the move restore stamina while blocking instead of cost stamina. Sorc tank would be up with the DKs. <-<
Things are supposed to get better when you summon your armor right. >->

Vapirko · April 2018

Hurricane causing minor fracture might be ok, major fracture would be too much and I do say this as a stam sorc main. But for me DW is already my main wpn choice and the LA damage buff from that, bound armaments, max stam that comes from slotting bound armaments is going to be pretty hefty I think. But the issue now is sustain which we get a lot of from the passive of slotting bound armaments. And here’s where I have the issue. What stamina sorcs needed in part to become more rounded was to get bound armaments changed to a buff and not a toggle. They did this but did it in a way that still requires you to double bar it unless you want to lose 4k stamina and 20% of your stam recovery when you bar swap. To me that’s not acceptable as a PvP solo or duo player. Imo bound armaments (the stam morph) should have been reworked to something like the wardens netch, providing max stam, LA damage while activated and stam return even while moving or soemthing to that effect to make up for the fact that our damage will now have to be based on LA weaving.

Thraben · April 2018

It is the Time of the PvP StamSorc now, and people are still worried?

We have now 2 spammables (Imbue Weapons and Silver Leash), and can not only 1 vs X potatoes (other classes can do that better) but comfortably fight in 1 vs Raid situations.

Additionally, our Ulti Generation will be on the top of all classes as we are almost the only ones who have the skill bar space to equip mend wounds (test it before judging).

A good solo StamSorc is now a ball group killer. Plain and simple. You don't have to kill all of them. Just pull out and kill enough of their support classes (templar and StamSorc) that they have to withdraw, and if you want, you can harass them then with Time Stop and Negate for the LoLs. Unlike the other stamclasses you are too quick and too sturdy in AoE damage situations to be easily killed by them.

EL3ZD33 · April 2018

A stamsorc can't output the dps needed solo to kill the ball group or every any actual single player with two thumbs, it basically needs the support of others. If you take any other class and put them in the same situation they would perform better. Mend wounds is a pathetic heal. If you're looking to get carried by group members right now then stamsorc is the way to go. Oh hooray 2 skills. Oh hooray spam two actual damage buttons. What a joke of a class this is now.

Try going solo with that build. Without troll king supporting you. Without running around like a freak trying to pin easily killed targets like every single other class does. This class is in a tough spot. The time of the stamsorc hasn't been around since dark brotherhood. Making a group build for a class doesn't make the class viable and OP. It just makes the build need the crutch of other members support. It's dps output is lacklustre and based on weaving. There is no continued pressure and if you need to heal it's a complete reset without being able to apply offense, allowing you to end up in the situation of always being on the defense. Oh wait streak away and reset. Nice duel.

This class needs a rework of something, no inherint mending, no inherint savagery, like stamblades, except we can't stealth, and we can't reopen with massive burst/viable spammables/major fracture. The dps output is slow compared to the lengths we have to go through to reset and survive a fight. Yes we can kite, but when we turn around to damage we are so open to damage due to our burst and spam not being there. We either need more defense or more offense. Mend wounds is a pathetic heal to subset this. And besides; every other class has access to major fracture (bar Templars - which have a cleanse, mending and class specific spammables) allowing them to run heroic slash easily and viably allowing for heroism buffs making the ultimate game even higher.

You are thinking of a group and crutching on the group. A Stamwarden can still burst just as hard and harder in a group and magsorcs would run negate unless you stamsorc tank for negate, to give up your dawnbreaker; the only way it is possible to kill anyone not a potato due to lack of applicable 'damage' skills. Take it out on your own and it's tough out there. Really tough. Stamsorcs have it the toughest, sure we can run away; that's about it. At least the other suffering class a stamdk can kill people effectively.

Make stamsorcs viable without a group. Give us some form of mending so we can drop troll king or a stam version of curse or frags or something; I don't know, you guys are the developers. The SOLO stamsorc is dying. So we aren't pigeonholed into a class that runs around all crazy AND outputting SLOW pressure. It's the negative of both those worlds.

EL3ZD33 · April 2018

@ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_BrianWheeler

GeorgeBlack · April 2018

Ok

templesus · April 2018

EL3ZD33 wrote: »

A stamsorc can't output the dps needed solo to kill the ball group or every any actual single player with two thumbs, it basically needs the support of others. If you take any other class and put them in the same situation they would perform better. Mend wounds is a pathetic heal. If you're looking to get carried by group members right now then stamsorc is the way to go. Oh hooray 2 skills. Oh hooray spam two actual damage buttons. What a joke of a class this is now.

Try going solo with that build. Without troll king supporting you. Without running around like a freak trying to pin easily killed targets like every single other class does. This class is in a tough spot. The time of the stamsorc hasn't been around since dark brotherhood. Making a group build for a class doesn't make the class viable and OP. It just makes the build need the crutch of other members support. It's dps output is lacklustre and based on weaving. There is no continued pressure and if you need to heal it's a complete reset without being able to apply offense, allowing you to end up in the situation of always being on the defense. Oh wait streak away and reset. Nice duel.

This class needs a rework of something, no inherint mending, no inherint savagery, like stamblades, except we can't stealth, and we can't reopen with massive burst/viable spammables/major fracture. The dps output is slow compared to the lengths we have to go through to reset and survive a fight. Yes we can kite, but when we turn around to damage we are so open to damage due to our burst and spam not being there. We either need more defense or more offense. Mend wounds is a pathetic heal to subset this. And besides; every other class has access to major fracture (bar Templars - which have a cleanse, mending and class specific spammables) allowing them to run heroic slash easily and viably allowing for heroism buffs making the ultimate game even higher.

You are thinking of a group and crutching on the group. A Stamwarden can still burst just as hard and harder in a group and magsorcs would run negate unless you stamsorc tank for negate, to give up your dawnbreaker; the only way it is possible to kill anyone not a potato due to lack of applicable 'damage' skills. Take it out on your own and it's tough out there. Really tough. Stamsorcs have it the toughest, sure we can run away; that's about it. At least the other suffering class a stamdk can kill people effectively.

Make stamsorcs viable without a group. Give us some form of mending so we can drop troll king or a stam version of curse or frags or something; I don't know, you guys are the developers. The SOLO stamsorc is dying. So we aren't pigeonholed into a class that runs around all crazy AND outputting SLOW pressure. It's the negative of both those worlds.

Id gladly trade stamplars 8% healing and potl and jabs for stam sorcs sustain. Gladly.

EL3ZD33 · April 2018

Running around, dawnbreaker and spin to win will only take you so far @Ultimate_Overlord.

Every (troll king) defile, bleed setup is banned in duelling tournaments.

When was the last time a stamsorc competed competitively in a duel tourney.

King of games is nothing to go by as he just runs around and picks off the noobs and dodges the rest (solo).

Go back to playing your flavour of the month or add something constructive with proof or evidence. Just because you got pieced by an alchemist dawnbreaker spin to win sub par solo build doesn't mean you know what you're talking about.

I say dps, and damage per second; I.e. Pressure. Not burst potential. Pressure. Against a good defense there is no consistent pressure if they turn on you. What you going to do against targets with sword and board seventh and bone pirate. Nothing against someone who knows how to play and chooses a stronger class with more utility. Or is the stamsorc utility streak, dark deal and run away.

With a name like ultimate overlord it's obvious you're a joke who thinks the sun shines out of his a** and plays easy monkey classes.

Try being solo.

Thraben · April 2018

I can only advise to test the StamSorc class with greater care.

In 1 vs 1 the class underperforms.
In 1 vs Potatoes the class is average.
In 1 vs Raid the class is outstanding.
In groups smaller 5 the class underperforms.
In groups larger 6 StamSorcs are the ONLY stam class left.

Among all stam classes, only wardens are in better situation. Sounds pretty balanced to me.

Ultimate_Overlord · April 2018

Never did i say that stam sorc is a good dueling class or that dueling even matters for the most part. Stam sorc is a great open world class that is getting even better with summerset, i simply wanted to point out that the potential of the class gets a bad reputation cause of countless players using crappy builds and playing suboptimally.

Chilly-McFreeze · April 2018

Thraben wrote: »

I can only advise to test the StamSorc class with greater care.

In 1 vs 1 the class underperforms.
In 1 vs Potatoes the class is average.
In 1 vs Raid the class is outstanding.
In groups smaller 5 the class underperforms.
In groups larger 6 StamSorcs are the ONLY stam class left.

Among all stam classes, only wardens are in better situation. Sounds pretty balanced to me.

That’s some twisted logic right here. Underperforms solo and only average versus noobs = balanced bc they can drop negates. That’s the only thing they are relegated to in groups and even then a magsorc does it better.

Ultimate_Overlord · April 2018

@EL3ZD33 You really shouldnt jump to assumptions, makes you look immature and and unsensible. I have no idea who that guy you mentioned is, i played stam sorc myself solo and no, i havent died to the combo you mention.
Properly played and built stam sorc has some of the best sustain and mobility in the game. Yes, its not as good as stamblade or stam warden, but what is? I am sorry that you care so much about duels, where the majority of stam sorc utility isnt strong and arbitrary rules restrict you from outcheesing other cheesy, yet permitted, builds, sorry that you dont seem to be knowledgable enough to perform well with stam sorc in solo pvp, the only thing i can do to help is suggest you to try an easier flavor of the month class.

Thraben · April 2018

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

That’s some twisted logic right here. Underperforms solo and only average versus noobs = balanced bc they can drop negates. That’s the only thing they are relegated to in groups and even then a magsorc does it better.

The game is not balanced around the idea that every class can cope with every situation equally well. It´s up to the players to create situations where their style of combat performs particularly well. While a StamWarden seeks fights on open field, a StamDK typically seeks fights in ressource towers, and a StamNB ganks at the supply lines of a zerg, a StamSorc´s prefered area will be where enemy organized groups are.

EL3ZD33 · April 2018

@Ultimate_Overlord Best sustain and mobility achieves nothing with lacklustre consistent pressure, enjoy running away your whole life picking off potatoes if that's the direction you want the class to go. I've played the class for more than two years now oh stamsorc master builder.

What's a non crappy build; troll king and? I've tried everything. Sword and board seventh heavy with pirate, armour master backbar with pirate, pirate and hulk, truth and clever, truth and pirate, truth heavy 5 and pirate, fury and seventh, heem-jas and everything (including vicious death) you name it I've tried it. Get off your high horse chump you're nothing special or smarter. There is limited sets to make this class viable. Enjoy just streaking and dark dealing. Wow such fun.

If you can't compete in a duel how can you even consider being competitive in ANY FIGHT if you can't FIGHT IN A DUEL and it's 1 person versus 1 person. You can duel on a stamsorc. With everything banned in dueling tournaments (yes self imposed). What does that say about how every other class performs.

EL3ZD33 · April 2018

A stamsorcs preferred area = large groups = negate, that's it. Wow negate and streak.

That is literally it, followed up by destros. You're not even doing any damage to the large group. And unless coordinated with destros and a larger group it's useless.

You're basically saying a stamsorc is only good for negates and streaks. I'm asking for them to be more than that and I will fight for my favourite class until the end. I'm not playing multiple characters to have a singular class just be a negate and streak bomb. Ball of lightning outperforms streak solo anyway.

"Don't buff the class, ignore this thread, they can negate and streak, need to be fighting 12 people tho, and be in a group of more than 6," what a joke.

EL3ZD33 · April 2018

@Ultimate_Overlord it's clear you just play at running away and picking off the easiest targets. You must enjoy not being competitive. Let's get a bite from the troll shall we. Or post your build, the class is sub-optimal, not the build. Better with summerset because what, enlighten me, 1 more skill slot for skills we don't really have or 2 if you count overload. You're running away on your overload bar again overlord.

Chilly-McFreeze · April 2018

Thraben wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

That’s some twisted logic right here. Underperforms solo and only average versus noobs = balanced bc they can drop negates. That’s the only thing they are relegated to in groups and even then a magsorc does it better.

The game is not balanced around the idea that every class can cope with every situation equally well. It´s up to the players to create situations where their style of combat performs particularly well. While a StamWarden seeks fights on open field, a StamDK typically seeks fights in ressource towers, and a StamNB ganks at the supply lines of a zerg, a StamSorc´s prefered area will be where enemy organized groups are.

Now tell me what group utility a stam sorc has to offer over any other stam or mag class? It's literally only the negate ultimate. That's it. Every destro/resto mag sorc has better group utility than a stam sorc. Relegate them to negate, fine. If that's your vision of balance we must agree to disagree. And please spare me your silver leash + trap combo as a means to wear out zergs. Every other class can do that as well. You proved that by posting a video of DK doing that in the other thread.

Oh I forgot, encase spam is/was a thing as well. But then again, a mag sorcs can do it better.

Varxent · April 2018

Thraben wrote: »

I can only advise to test the StamSorc class with greater care.

In 1 vs 1 the class underperforms.
In 1 vs Potatoes the class is average.
In 1 vs Raid the class is outstanding.
In groups smaller 5 the class underperforms.
In groups larger 6 StamSorcs are the ONLY stam class left.

Among all stam classes, only wardens are in better situation. Sounds pretty balanced to me.

In 1v1 I gotta agree, The class does underperform quite a bit compared to the other stam classes. But farming potatos solo? That's where Stam Sorc shines in my eyes. But even then a Stamplar, Warden or even a Nightblade do those things better. In small group? That really depends If you already have someone running negate. If you already do class underpreforms a ton.

templesus · April 2018

EL3ZD33 wrote: »

@Ultimate_Overlord Best sustain and mobility achieves nothing with lacklustre consistent pressure, enjoy running away your whole life picking off potatoes if that's the direction you want the class to go. I've played the class for more than two years now oh stamsorc master builder.

What's a non crappy build; troll king and? I've tried everything. Sword and board seventh heavy with pirate, armour master backbar with pirate, pirate and hulk, truth and clever, truth and pirate, truth heavy 5 and pirate, fury and seventh, heem-jas and everything (including vicious death) you name it I've tried it. Get off your high horse chump you're nothing special or smarter. There is limited sets to make this class viable. Enjoy just streaking and dark dealing. Wow such fun.

If you can't compete in a duel how can you even consider being competitive in ANY FIGHT if you can't FIGHT IN A DUEL and it's 1 person versus 1 person. You can duel on a stamsorc. With everything banned in dueling tournaments (yes self imposed). What does that say about how every other class performs.

You’re using SnB and are expecting to 1vX? Stam sorc isn’t standen or stam dk, it’s more in line with stamplar and stamblade. You either need to use 2h/bow or 2h/DW. Want a build? 5 bone pirate, 5 hulk, 2 slimecraw with bound armaments. Great sustain, great damage.

TimeDazzler · April 2018

I think that stam warden is just buff over tuned and that's the issue. Stamsorc and sorcs in general have the fewest class buffs/debuffs in the game so there's that also. I think a start would be having access to a class minor berserk and or minor endurance kind of like stam blades. Either that or give sorcs a class major savagery / major prophecy depending on what morph of X skill you pick.

BaylorCorvette · April 2018

Since StamSorcs are tied to using weapon abilities for damage I wish Sorcs had some way to cleanse snares via their class line. At least be doing so a StamSorc could then run any armor / weapon combo without having to tailor it around medium for Shuffle or 2H for Forward Momentum. Would be nice if streak cleansed snares and gave immunity for 1-2 sec. Something inline with Shuffle. Heck, DK falppers are getting that treatment. Overall I love PvPing on my StamSorc but it's annoying that if I want to run heavy armor I'm forced to get 2H with Forward Momentum.

ezeepeezee · April 2018

templesus wrote: »

EL3ZD33 wrote: »

@Ultimate_Overlord Best sustain and mobility achieves nothing with lacklustre consistent pressure, enjoy running away your whole life picking off potatoes if that's the direction you want the class to go. I've played the class for more than two years now oh stamsorc master builder.

What's a non crappy build; troll king and? I've tried everything. Sword and board seventh heavy with pirate, armour master backbar with pirate, pirate and hulk, truth and clever, truth and pirate, truth heavy 5 and pirate, fury and seventh, heem-jas and everything (including vicious death) you name it I've tried it. Get off your high horse chump you're nothing special or smarter. There is limited sets to make this class viable. Enjoy just streaking and dark dealing. Wow such fun.

If you can't compete in a duel how can you even consider being competitive in ANY FIGHT if you can't FIGHT IN A DUEL and it's 1 person versus 1 person. You can duel on a stamsorc. With everything banned in dueling tournaments (yes self imposed). What does that say about how every other class performs.

You’re using SnB and are expecting to 1vX? Stam sorc isn’t standen or stam dk, it’s more in line with stamplar and stamblade. You either need to use 2h/bow or 2h/DW. Want a build? 5 bone pirate, 5 hulk, 2 slimecraw with bound armaments. Great sustain, great damage.

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

Since StamSorcs are tied to using weapon abilities for damage I wish Sorcs had some way to cleanse snares via their class line. At least be doing so a StamSorc could then run any armor / weapon combo without having to tailor it around medium for Shuffle or 2H for Forward Momentum. Would be nice if streak cleansed snares and gave immunity for 1-2 sec. Something inline with Shuffle. Heck, DK falppers are getting that treatment. Overall I love PvPing on my StamSorc but it's annoying that if I want to run heavy armor I'm forced to get 2H with Forward Momentum.

That decision is the intention, though. HA + Rally is extremely potent, and I actually don't think any other class could do it as well as a stam sorc could. I personally play in 5 med / 2 heavy with rally, and the rally heal isn't actually that critical. SS has tons of incoming healing and options. I played in 5 heavy / 2 med before my current build, and didn't struggle with healing even with FM.

NyassaV · April 2018

I agree with the blade cloak part but stam sorc is very solid (not exactly strong) and has been for awhile. Heavy attacks are just a pain in the ass to deal with

Xsorus · April 2018

Run shield breaker/new oblivion set/imbue weapons/ bow build with any monster set lol

EL3ZD33 · April 2018

I use a 2hand primarily because that's my roleplay life, but with how buggy 2 hand is you are still only bursting potatoes, with emphasis on running away and just blowing up potatoes with that amazing dawnbreaker execute combo; tried *everything* (was trying to emphasise that I've played the defile and burst setups). You can't actually heal for *** in a build like that and you get pieced by any class being in medium and having *** heals. Nice group build though. I'd be surprised if you have a build I haven't tried. You can't even duel well in that build with how busted 2h and dawnbreaker is. Yet any other class in that same setup would have no issues dueling whatsoever.

My point is; running away and just dropping a dawnbreaker on potatoes isn't fun. The class is designed to run away and kill weak enemies? It's not the ability to 1vx I'm after; it's the ability to proactively fight something that knows how to play competitively. And not just be a run away machine.

Solid class yes, it's my favourite; lacklustre in what it offers is my point, there's only so much streaking and dark dealing can carry fun for the class.

It needs something, a stam morph of curse or frags or something, or access to a savagery or mending buff, or some utility that isn't based around just running away and dark dealing all your resources back. Even a stam version of encase would be better than what utility it offers now. Be it streak or dodge roll the hell out of there. That isn't competitive. That's just a nightblade that uses cloak and doesn't reopen in the same area because they can't and are to scared too, the fight is a complete reset, not opposable pressure. But hey look a potato is there I can dawnbreak.

I don't even know why I'm bothering to be honest if there's obviously so many stamsorcs who have don't have any issues with how this class plays currently.

We can't all agree that there is SOMETHING this class is missing? I don't want a perfect class that can do everything. I just don't want a subpar class because that's how it is, yet every single other class can serve the same purposes that this class can; only better.

Thraben · April 2018

EL3ZD33 wrote: »

We can't all agree that there is SOMETHING this class is missing? I don't want a perfect class that can do everything. I just don't want a subpar class because that's how it is, yet every single other class can serve the same purposes that this class can; only better.

Of course the class needs another Stam morph. I´ve been asking for this for years now. But this Stam morph should be more in the line of "nice to have" than something totally groundbreaking. Because:

Short answer:
StamDKs, StamTemplars, MagTemplars, MagWardens, and arguably MagSorcs (IF the OVERLOAD gank thing gets fixed) need a buff as well (and in some cases MORE than we). "Buffing" 5/10 classes doesn´t sound reasonable. There are some really cheesy builds out there for StamSorcs now, and I would be VERY careful demanding more before the Devs create a third overperforming monster class (after having failed to balance StamNB and StamWarden).

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

1) Now tell me what group utility a stam sorc has to offer over any other stam or mag class?
2) It's literally only the negate ultimate. That's it. Every destro/resto mag sorc has better group utility than a stam sorc. Relegate them to negate, fine. If that's your vision of balance we must agree to disagree.
3) And please spare me your silver leash + trap combo as a means to wear out zergs. Every other class can do that as well. You proved that by posting a video of DK doing that in the other thread.
4)Oh I forgot, encase spam is/was a thing as well. But then again, a mag sorcs can do it better.

Long answer (new information in italic):

1) Rapid support (spamming Retreating maneuver) is the group StamSorc´s core role. A warden can help out, but only reaches maybe 60% of a StamSorc´s efficiency, and I honestly hardly know wardens that can even reach this. A StamSorc is more or less given in any group larger 6, and so is his negate. Contrary to popular belief ("rapid bot"), StamSorcs can provide for rapid AND fight at the same time. It´s a shame that many group StamSorcs are reduced to that role and aren´t permitted to actually fight.

Besides, a group that doesn´t force MagSorcs to use Eye-of-the-Storm wastes damage without any reason. Only raid leader MagSorcs throw the first Negate sometimes. Sustained StamSorc AoE DPS may be the best among all Stam classes, but is still not in the range of most Mag classes, so the roles should be clear.

2) After the patch, StamSorc Ulti generation can even outrun a StamWarden´s, if you do things right. So you don´t have to safe your Negate any longer, and can even consider "spamming" Dawnbreakers, oder even using Werwolf. I hardly needed 40 seconds to get from 0 Ulti to Negate on the PTS.

This is particularly useful for solo players, as they will start every fight with enough Ulti to use the shield Ulti. Put on Meridia´s, and here you go. The new daedric armor skill also increases the blocking power to a degree that I´m unsure whether it´s a bug. And we don´t even speak about Inbue Weapons, which IS the spammable we have been craving for so long. Only Nighblades profit more from it.

3) Apparantly it is not generally known that highly organized groups are too quick to catch them with Silver Leash on open field. StamSorcs (and possibly some Magblades) are the only ones who can match their speed easily (without any compromises regarding the gear or skill setup) without being in danger of reprisal, and thus the only ones who can use this old DK chain tactic to a full degree.

4) Also, it seems to be a rather reclusive knowledge that Encase Spam only works against potatoes. And even then, it is far better just to throw caltrops, because the heavy slow won´t motivate the guys to do a dodge roll, and because they trigger Implosion. Thus, again, MagSorcs are worse at the new "Caltrops - Borrowed Time - Negate" combo than StamSorcs. This has nothing to do with this tread, though, because it´s about whether StamSorcs need a buff.

Pinja · April 2018

Thraben wrote: »

EL3ZD33 wrote: »

We can't all agree that there is SOMETHING this class is missing? I don't want a perfect class that can do everything. I just don't want a subpar class because that's how it is, yet every single other class can serve the same purposes that this class can; only better.

Of course the class needs another Stam morph. I´ve been asking for this for years now. But this Stam morph should be more in the line of "nice to have" than something totally groundbreaking. Because:

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

1) Now tell me what group utility a stam sorc has to offer over any other stam or mag class?
2) It's literally only the negate ultimate. That's it. Every destro/resto mag sorc has better group utility than a stam sorc. Relegate them to negate, fine. If that's your vision of balance we must agree to disagree.
3) And please spare me your silver leash + trap combo as a means to wear out zergs. Every other class can do that as well. You proved that by posting a video of DK doing that in the other thread.
4)Oh I forgot, encase spam is/was a thing as well. But then again, a mag sorcs can do it better.

Short answer:
StamDKs, StamTemplars, MagTemplars, MagWardens, and arguably MagSorcs (IF the OVERLOAD gank thing gets fixed) need a buff as well (and in some cases MORE than we). "Buffing" 5/10 classes doesn´t sound reasonable. There are some really cheesy builds out there for StamSorcs now, and I would be VERY careful demanding more before the Devs create a third overperforming monster class (after having failed to balance StamNB and StamWarden).

Long answer (new information in italic):

1) Rapid support (spamming Retreating maneuver) is the group StamSorc´s core role. A warden can help out, but only reaches maybe 60% of a StamSorc´s efficiency, and I honestly hardly know wardens that can even reach this. A StamSorc is more or less given in any group larger 6, and so is his negate. Contrary to popular belief ("rapid bot"), StamSorcs can provide for rapid AND fight at the same time. It´s a shame that many group StamSorcs are reduced to that role and aren´t permitted to actually fight.

Besides, a group that doesn´t force MagSorcs to use Eye-of-the-Storm wastes damage without any reason. Only raid leader MagSorcs throw the first Negate sometimes. Sustained StamSorc AoE DPS may be the best among all Stam classes, but is still not in the range of most Mag classes, so the roles should be clear.

2) After the patch, StamSorc Ulti generation can even outrun a StamWarden´s, if you do things right. So you don´t have to safe your Negate any longer, and can even consider "spamming" Dawnbreakers, oder even using Werwolf. I hardly needed 40 seconds to get from 0 Ulti to Negate on the PTS.

This is particularly useful for solo players, as they will start every fight with enough Ulti to use the shield Ulti. Put on Meridia´s, and here you go. The new daedric armor skill also increases the blocking power to a degree that I´m unsure whether it´s a bug. And we don´t even speak about Inbue Weapons, which IS the spammable we have been craving for so long. Only Nighblades profit more from it.

3) Apparantly it is not generally known that highly organized groups are too quick to catch them with Silver Leash on open field. StamSorcs (and possibly some Magblades) are the only ones who can match their speed easily (without any compromises regarding the gear or skill setup) without being in danger of reprisal, and thus the only ones who can use this old DK chain tactic to a full degree.

4) Also, it seems to be a rather reclusive knowledge that Encase Spam only works against potatoes. And even then, it is far better just to throw caltrops, because the heavy slow won´t motivate the guys to do a dodge roll, and because they trigger Implosion. Thus, again, MagSorcs are worse at the new "Caltrops - Borrowed Time - Negate" combo than StamSorcs. This has nothing to do with this tread, though, because it´s about whether StamSorcs need a buff.

Let me start out again by saying wardens are awesome do not need a nerf in PVP.
But this is an made up statement...

Thraben wrote: »

A warden can help out, but only reaches maybe 60% of a StamSorc´s efficiency, and I honestly hardly know wardens that can even reach this.

As a warden has better casts for sustain that don't take away from resources used for pressure or survival, it is better at casting the 8000+ stamina costing move. Then again those are the people you know. Plenty of Pve'rs I'd assume. Swapping and grinding up meta charters in the verse for gear, not caring about alliance rank they have on a specific character & what not.
If I was PVP Pve style "Raid leader," casting my crew I'd wouldn't include stam sorcs.

They don't add any unique extra buffs.
They'd steel Vicious death procs from mag characters.
Couldn't passively throw out heals besides vigor.
Get out tanked.
Get out burst.

I would say get out the zerg, but I am one, and It's my zerg.

It's crud that you should say a charterer be out preformed because others don't know how to use there's.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

General
Warden
Green Balance
Bursting Vines (Nature’s Grasp morph): This morph now grants 10 Ultimate when used on an ally under 60% Health, and added a 4 second cooldown.

Nature’s Grasp: This ability and the Nature’s Embrace morph now grant 3 Ultimate when the healing over time completes.

These are the patches ulti regain changes... This is also a Warden BUFF!

So If one uses an ulti regain build, it's better.

I want my character to be able to compete at an end game level. Not get stuck running best game gear set ups others would run better.

The way this 'Stam sorc group play' is described makes it out to be the player with spare ulti & stamina... Meaning the class isn't doing anything, get to work fixing it! -Buff

Pvp is 'interesting' to get into,
post later...

Thraben · April 2018

Pinja wrote: »

Let me start out again by saying wardens are awesome do not need a nerf in PVP.

A fitting conclusion regarding the topic. If you use StamWardens as benchmark, then, indeed, the StamSorc is lacking something. I would rather nerf StamWardens than buffing 8 or 9 classes, but I can respect the logic behind it.