Dark Cloak and NB tanking.

GeorgeBlack · April 2018

Do not force nightblades to give up on invisibility in order to tank.
There are numberous unused skills to add a tanking mechanism(heal) to it.

I am trying to get my friends to start again Eso. They dont care much for the game because PvP is limited and meaningless(optional).
However they like that a single character can perform different tasks by using different gear and armors.
I enjoy PvPing and doing PvE tank/dps with 1 character without having to change morphs/stats.
I imagine if people were FORCED to choose tank nb or stealth NB they would be very angry.
And before ppl say create 2 characters think that some players(large number) and possible new players may not be up for that.
There are alternatives to Dark Cloak, dont go down that path.

And before people say that NB will become OP by having a healing skill(magika cost) and invisibility(magika cost) think of skill slots, costs, rotations.
Or just find other ways to balance the class.

PS. Nerf incap.
Remove Defile or Remove Stun.
Or remove both. Why? A stamNB with unstoppable potion will kill you after using this ulty. And if they dont it will be ready for reuse before Immobility is over. They will gap close on you, you cant heal(defile) and they have boosted dmg due to incap effect. And because of the initial dmg of incap you are alrdy close to execution range.
How many rolldodge can you do before incap is rdy for reuse?

Mannox · April 2018

I actually agree. Having played a Nightblade as my main since release.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · April 2018

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Do not force nightblades to give up on invisibility in order to tank.
There are numberous unused skills to add a tanking mechanism(heal) to it.

And before people say that NB will become OP by having a healing skill(magika cost) and invisibility(magika cost) just find other ways to balance the class.

PS. Nerf incap.
Remove Defile or Remove Stun.
Or remove both. Why? A stamNB with unstoppable potion will kill you after using this ulty. And if they dont it will be ready for reuse before Immobility is over. They will gap close on you, you cant heal(defile) and they have boosted dmg due to incap effect. And because of the initial dmg of incap you are alrdy close to execution range.
How many rolldodge can you do before incap is rdy for reuse?

Why does anyone want to nerf Incap it’s an ultimate and it’s single target resistance and impen cuts it’s damage down bad. If they remove anything they will need to up the damage. Dawnbreaker is in the cost ballpark is an AoE, Stuns, adds a passive damage buff for the whole fight & you can pick a longer stun or more damage.

GeorgeBlack · April 2018

Oh I've said about how OP Dawnbreaker is. I use it myself. But that is off topic ye?
So instead of tryna protect your OP ulty, find an unuse skills to become the NB tanking skill or lose your invisibility

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · April 2018

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Oh I've said about how OP Dawnbreaker is. I use it myself. But that is off topic ye?
So instead of tryna protect your OP ulty, find an unuse skills to become the NB tanking skill or lose your invisibility

First why do we need a tanking skill we don’t have powers to make use good tanks.
Holding Argo is easy pulling something to you with having to walk to it not so much off of a DK. You can range taunt at a higher cost. No group shield (bone shield needs them to activate it) no where near the same sustain as a DK. No edge of live burst heal (Dark Cloak is a HoT).

This one power will not make Nightblades better tanks it’s just one more HoT we had plenty of HoTs. Everyone does not need to be half *** tanks. Nightblade Tanks will never be as good as DKs or Wardens. Why try to make a Sports car into a Pickup Truck.

GeorgeBlack · April 2018

Play as you want

RavenSworn · April 2018

I don't get it. Wouldn't you still need to change your skills when you change roles? There's always the respec shrine. Even if you don't want to change skills, you still have your cp points allocation to think about. And your stats. And your gear.

Dark cloak was chosen because there's hardly any situations when you need it. If any, having shadowy disguise as a dps is much more needed.

Also, @kendellking_chaosb14_ESO, nbs aren't as good at tanking as dks. So are the other classes. That doesn't mean it's not viable. Optimal class? No. Viable? Hell yeah.

By your logic, we shouldn't play a magdk or Stam DK dps since it's not as good as a nb at dps yeah? We have players that hit 45k dps mark with magdk or stamdk but meh, they are all scrubs.

xaraan · April 2018

It's a smart decision to make players choose between a strong self heal and invis IMO. Though I would like them to redo they way they let us change morphs instead of having to pay to respec them all, that way someone could make a change quickly between one version and the other instead of redoing all your morphs just to change one.

Larsay · April 2018

Another reason one may argue PvP and PvE need different rule sets. The choice to make this skill a Heal or Invisibility is based completely around PvP. They do not want a NB to cloak and then heal, or pop that heal and go right into cloak...

Personally I mainly PvE rarely PvP, so this does not bother me much... but the need to split the rule sets is glaring...

GeorgeBlack · April 2018

RavenSworn wrote: »

I don't get it. Wouldn't you still need to change your skills when you change roles? There's always the respec shrine. Even if you don't want to change skills, you still have your cp points allocation to think about. And your stats. And your gear.

Dark cloak was chosen because there's hardly any situations when you need it. If any, having shadowy disguise as a dps is much more needed.

Also, @kendellking_chaosb14_ESO, nbs aren't as good at tanking as dks. So are the other classes. That doesn't mean it's not viable. Optimal class? No. Viable? Hell yeah.

By your logic, we shouldn't play a magdk or Stam DK dps since it's not as good as a nb at dps yeah? We have players that hit 45k dps mark with magdk or stamdk but meh, they are all scrubs.

I do all competitive content without changing stats. Not a single cp. Not a single morph. PvP. PvE dps. PvE tank.
But ye... feel free to lock stealth away from nightblades that want to tank.
Tell them to make a new character, farm motifs etc. Colours.

Ye... dont take a skill that is unused or useless and make it a tanking skill. Ye... tell them to give up on stealth.

I dont get it. How can you be so narrow minded?
USE ANOTHER SKILL INSTEAD OF CLOAK.
THERE ARE SO MANY THAT ARE USELESS.

GeorgeBlack · April 2018

Of the top of my head:

Summon dark shade.
The shade has 10k hp and for 2s it receives all dmg instead of caster. Wonderful.
PvE. Tanking
PvP: choose mobility or tanking. Variety.

You dont like it? Find another skill.
Why ruin cloak and force players to make new characters.

RavenSworn · April 2018

Wait what? In which situations are nb tanks needing stealth? Pvp? Pve? Bg? Vma?

GeorgeBlack · April 2018

RavenSworn wrote: »

Wait what? In which situations are nb tanks needing stealth? Pvp? Pve? Bg? Vma?

Why dont you want to use another skill for tanking NBs? Why Cloak?
Answer

Royaji · April 2018

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

RavenSworn wrote: »

Wait what? In which situations are nb tanks needing stealth? Pvp? Pve? Bg? Vma?

Why dont you want to use another skill for tanking NBs? Why Cloak?
Answer

Because you will not be able to have cloak AND a massive heal that way. It's called balance.

Gilvoth · April 2018

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

PS. Nerf incap.
Remove Defile or Remove Stun.

another nerf nightblade skills and ultimate thread.
you guys keep making these threads with different wording and constantly asking for nerfs is getting really old.
please stop making these types of threads asking for nightblade nerfs and disguising them as other types of threads by the wording in the titles.

i hope the developers, the forum moderators, and the eso community will see that is what you guys are doing.
see here other threads he's made asking same thing. him and his friends keep doing this and spamming these.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/407316/nerf-stamnb-thread#latest

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/408151/reconsider-restricting-the-use-of-cloak-an-iconic-class-skill-when-there-are-other-choices#latest

please stop making these kind of threads.

Silver_Strider · April 2018

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Oh I've said about how OP Dawnbreaker is. I use it myself. But that is off topic ye?
So instead of tryna protect your OP ulty, find an unuse skills to become the NB tanking skill or lose your invisibility

First why do we need a tanking skill we don’t have powers to make use good tanks.
Holding Argo is easy pulling something to you with having to walk to it not so much off of a DK. You can range taunt at a higher cost. No group shield (bone shield needs them to activate it) no where near the same sustain as a DK. No edge of live burst heal (Dark Cloak is a HoT).

This one power will not make Nightblades better tanks it’s just one more HoT we had plenty of HoTs. Everyone does not need to be half *** tanks. Nightblade Tanks will never be as good as DKs or Wardens. Why try to make a Sports car into a Pickup Truck.

So by this logic, ZOS should just remove all tank/healing abilities they added to all other classes and make it so only DK can tanks and Templars can heal. The whole point of this change is to help make NB tanks more viable at their role, just like every other change ZOS has made to try and make everyone more versatile. People have been posting several suggestions to help make their class more viable but there is always people that are opposed because they don't care about anything other than their own views on a class, much like what you are currently doing.

Your opinion on Dark Cloak is that because its a HoT it won't help NB tanks but have you actually tested it? It's better than Warden's Arctic Wind heal in nearly every way. It heals for about the same upfront value as Arctic (12% vs 11%) but unlike Arctic Winds, Dark Cloak heals at an exponentially quicker rate, provides Minor Protection, refreshes the Shadow Barrier passive for Major Resolve/Ward AND heals for more than Arctic Winds could ever hope to match (33% total vs 22% total). Lack of group utility and sustain are literally the only areas a NB tank is now lacking in and several people have voiced there opinions on how to change that as well, myself included.

As to the why, it's because playing a DK tank is dull as dirt and people are sick of it being the only consistent endgame tank for 4 f***ing years. Warden was a breathe of fresh air after nothing but DK tanks and while still not on the same level as DK, are fairly close. The real question is, why are you so negative about the change? Is it because you use Dark Cloak and are upset about being nerfed? Well, welcome to the lives of all NB Sap Tanks that practically DIED with Morrowind changes. Sucks, doesn't it? (Yes, I am one of those very bitter Sap Tanks before you ask.)

GeorgeBlack · April 2018

Royaji wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

RavenSworn wrote: »

Wait what? In which situations are nb tanks needing stealth? Pvp? Pve? Bg? Vma?

Why dont you want to use another skill for tanking NBs? Why Cloak?
Answer

Because you will not be able to have cloak AND a massive heal that way. It's called balance.

Tell me what will u unslot to run the MASSIVE HEAL scaling of HP for your OP IDEA

GeorgeBlack · April 2018

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

RavenSworn wrote: »

Wait what? In which situations are nb tanks needing stealth? Pvp? Pve? Bg? Vma?

Why dont you want to use another skill for tanking NBs? Why Cloak?
Answer

Because you will not be able to have cloak AND a massive heal that way. It's called balance.

Tell me what will u unslot to run the MASSIVE HEAL scaling of HP with cloak for your OP IDEA

RoyJade · April 2018

The only regret I'll have with the removal of invisibility for my nb tank is the casual pve commodity it gives. Being able to pass though mobs without needing to fight them, especially as a pure tank build, is awesome.
So, there is one change I would propose for dark cloak : give the invisibility outside of combats. It would have no impact in pve and nearly none in pvp, since in combat a NB wouldn't have the heal and the invisibility at the same time.

Blackleopardex · April 2018

RoyJade wrote: »

The only regret I'll have with the removal of invisibility for my nb tank is the casual pve commodity it gives. Being able to pass though mobs without needing to fight them, especially as a pure tank build, is awesome.
So, there is one change I would propose for dark cloak : give the invisibility outside of combats. It would have no impact in pve and nearly none in pvp, since in combat a NB wouldn't have the heal and the invisibility at the same time.

For counter changes to the dark cloak this is actually one of the best suggestions i have heard so far. Most people just wanna have it all. The new heal and cloak. This suggestion fixes even my minor issue. As I main a Nightblade tank the only problem for me is some less important PVE content that i still do on my main: Stealing/DB-daily/collecting surveys ect. and i love to have the cloak in these situations!

RoyJade · April 2018

Blackleopardex wrote: »

For counter changes to the dark cloak this is actually one of the best suggestions i have heard so far. Most people just wanna have it all. The new heal and cloak. This suggestion fixes even my minor issue. As I main a Nightblade tank the only problem for me is some less important PVE content that i still do on my main: Stealing/DB-daily/collecting surveys ect. and i love to have the cloak in these situations!

That's exactly the type of content where cloak is amazing !
I hope they'll think about it seriously, especially because content outside of endgame pve and pvp is too often forgotten.

Jerkling · April 2018

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

First why do we need a tanking skill we don’t have powers to make use good tanks. [...]

says who? have you ever actually played a NB tank? it's true that NBs are lacking in CC but if you have a good group you won't need it anyways since trash gets cleared fast and imho NB tanks are hands down the most OP boss tanks there are if you know how to play them. I can solo alot/most dungeon bosses on vet HM with mine if need be (just takes forever) and the sustain is infinite even w/o popping any potions.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

[...] Everyone does not need to be half *** tanks. Nightblade Tanks will never be as good as DKs or Wardens. [...]

if you really believe that then you have clearly no idea how to NB tank or how to adjust your abilities and/or gear to specific tasks in a fight...

Silver_Strider wrote: »

[...] people are sick of it being the only consistent endgame tank for 4 f***ing years. Warden was a breathe of fresh air after nothing but DK tanks and while still not on the same level as DK, are fairly close. [...]

again, says who (not the people are being sick part but the endgame tank part)? i keep seing templar tanks being used as much as DKs and being equally viable.
also, my NB tank can tank The Serpents bomb thingy in vSO HM. can yours? [i mean no offense by that, just trying to show that all classes are able to be consistens endgame tanks]

aeowulf · April 2018

So lets talk about NB tanking changes this patch:

Bolstering darkness: Mitigation will be reduced by 50% and the duration reduced. Effective result is NB tanks (both of them) will loose their 'oh crap' button. You cannot convince me DPS classes will reduce their DPS to run in front of a mob, putting themselves at significant risk, to pick up a buff they've done fine without for the last x years. This change is a significant nerf, that's getting overlooked. Bolstering is underused, because almost no one is playing NB tank. It needs leaving alone.

Strife: cost increase - this will most likely disappear from NB tanks skill bar unless someone desperately loves the passive still. This is actually OK, as space will probably need to be made for Dark Cloak.

Dark cloak: Nice change, no invis. Quality of life change, overland questing will be annoying again as trash takes a while to clear trash. This skill is a heal, it should be in siphoning skill line, not shadow.

MO: no longer healing caster - I don't think either NB tank were running it anyway.

@Jerkling - mind sharing build/sets you are using? very curious how you have infinite sustain without potions.

ccfeeling · April 2018

Hey Jerkling, i do believe u a the OP NB tank.

Mind to share some end game trial hm or bf HM youtubes, i want to learn from u, thank you.

aeowulf · April 2018

Jerkling wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

First why do we need a tanking skill we don’t have powers to make use good tanks. [...]

says who? have you ever actually played a NB tank? it's true that NBs are lacking in CC but if you have a good group you won't need it anyways since trash gets cleared fast and imho NB tanks are hands down the most OP boss tanks there are if you know how to play them. I can solo alot/most dungeon bosses on vet HM with mine if need be (just takes forever) and the sustain is infinite even w/o popping any potions.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

[...] Everyone does not need to be half *** tanks. Nightblade Tanks will never be as good as DKs or Wardens. [...]

if you really believe that then you have clearly no idea how to NB tank or how to adjust your abilities and/or gear to specific tasks in a fight...

Silver_Strider wrote: »

[...] people are sick of it being the only consistent endgame tank for 4 f***ing years. Warden was a breathe of fresh air after nothing but DK tanks and while still not on the same level as DK, are fairly close. [...]

again, says who (not the people are being sick part but the endgame tank part)? i keep seing templar tanks being used as much as DKs and being equally viable.
also, my NB tank can tank The Serpents bomb thingy in vSO HM. can yours? [i mean no offense by that, just trying to show that all classes are able to be consistens endgame tanks]

To answer the 'says who' part - basically everyone who runs build websites on the internet, so the likes of @Alcast etc. Also @woeler, who is most definately up there amongst the ranks of the best tanks in ESO. Usually with a 'this build is suitable for...' comment. Only DK & warden are in that category. Also literally everyone else that was playing a non-DK tank before Morrowind.

There is a lot more to tanking than just standing there taking a beating.

Rex-Umbra · April 2018

I like the idea of a tank heal but its too weak.

akray21 · April 2018

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

I like the idea of a tank heal but its too weak.

Maybe add minor vitality to the skill for the duration? Not sure if this would be enough for PvE as I'm not much of a PvE tank. But it would help in PvP.

Royaji · April 2018

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

I like the idea of a tank heal but its too weak.

This is probably the best health percentage based heal in the game. GDB only heals for 33% of missing health and we are not even going to discuss Warden's ice heal... (20% increase, anyone?)

33% of your max health over 3 seconds is pretty damn good.

usmguy1234 · April 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

PS. Nerf incap.
Remove Defile or Remove Stun.

another nerf nightblade skills and ultimate thread.
you guys keep making these threads with different wording and constantly asking for nerfs is getting really old.
please stop making these types of threads asking for nightblade nerfs and disguising them as other types of threads by the wording in the titles.

i hope the developers, the forum moderators, and the eso community will see that is what you guys are doing.
see here other threads he's made asking same thing. him and his friends keep doing this and spamming these.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/407316/nerf-stamnb-thread#latest

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/408151/reconsider-restricting-the-use-of-cloak-an-iconic-class-skill-when-there-are-other-choices#latest

please stop making these kind of threads.

No offense but the same has been done for all the other classes that had their moment in the sun. Yes it does sting when it hits close to home but most of us have felt this sting (If not multiple times) to the point of numbness or discontent. I fall on the numb side. People that make these threads fall in the discontent portion. I guess the silver-lining is that as long as there is discontent, people still care about this game.

VaxtinTheWolf · April 2018

akray21 wrote: »

Maybe add minor vitality to the skill for the duration? Not sure if this would be enough for PvE as I'm not much of a PvE tank. But it would help in PvP.

Swallow Soul, the morph of Strife, passively adds Minor Vitality.

akray21 · April 2018

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

akray21 wrote: »

Maybe add minor vitality to the skill for the duration? Not sure if this would be enough for PvE as I'm not much of a PvE tank. But it would help in PvP.

Swallow Soul, the morph of Strife, passively adds Minor Vitality.

Ah, yes. Sorry, I don't play magblade. It would still be a buff to my StamBlade build.