PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Nightblade Balance

Feanor · April 2018

H4RDFOX wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

developers, please do not nerf incap and please do not nerf cloak as these guys here are requesting.
the changes they are requesting simply do not need to be made.

i have been playing nightblade since 2013 beta. many nerfs were given to both dragonight and sorcerer class to bring them inline with the other classes. those people who played those classes are out for revenge against nightblade class and are daily trying to get revenge and allways asking for nightblades to be nerfed. it is not fair and i hope you guys can see what they are doing and also that they stop doing it and move on from this.

this entire thread is filled with requests to nerf nightblade incap and cloak and is totaly false information and missleading the devs into nerfing the class skills and ultimates that nightblade needs in order to not only survive but also be able to do any real damage in PvP.

I would agree, and I think the devs see so themselves, that much of the proposed nerfs to the NB class are coming from players who have experienced the death from a NB who is fulfilling their class objective well. I would suggest to my fellow NBs to construct valid counterarguments with logic and reasoning. We all know that NBs are assassins, and they execute as they should. If incap is going to be nerfed, then other ults should be nerfed as well. Incap can be mitigated! if you're stunned because of ambush or surprise attack, then i'm not sorry to break it to you, but it's time to meet Sithis.

All fine. But as you can see in the thread, people aren’t asking for an assassin. They are asking for invincibility. Or why do you explain that NBs keep their burst and yet people still want awesome kiting and LoS via Shadow Image and snare removal and immunity to boot?

An assassin normally is dead once he gets discovered. It’s not what people here want for NB though. They want the easy burst, and if that fails, an easy carte blanche for escaping unscathed.

I‘m quite sure a part of why forum posts about Nightblades have been so rampant is the totally unrealistic views the users of the class state on these forums over and over.

Think about it. If the suggestions here would get taken seriously you’d have

- best Instant burst
- Best kiting
- Snare Removal and Immunity
- Stealth

And that’s why discussing NBs is so tiresome. It’s never enough for them and they always just receive nerfs in their eyes.

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER · April 2018

Undo strife nerf.
Undo path nerf.

Thanks.

Strider__Roshin · April 2018

A lot of the "feedback" here is pure whining from people who do not have this class's best interest in mind. The biggest hot topic of course is Incap. Trust me this will not stop until Incap is so bad no one uses it (which won't take much at this point). Incap does not need to be nerfed whatsoever. If there is any change that could occur to this move that won't kill it, it would be to replace the knockdown with a different effect (minor stamina steal, a snare, a DoT, minor vulnerability, etc).

Trust me, if you nerf Incap in any way one of two things will happen: stamblades will go back to using Soul Harvest, Stamblade will use Dawnbreaker. The burst of the stamblade revolves around Incap. Sure they have the weaker version of the spectral bow, but it's not as readily available as Crystal Frags, Power Lash, Power of the Light, or Scorch. You nerf Incap, and you'll kill the class unless you buff the damage of spectral bow, and reduce the light attacks required to 4. But then if they were to do that people will just start whining about that too until the class is reduced to junk which is the ultimate goal of those desiring stamblades to be nerfed.

Strider__Roshin · April 2018

Now can we get back on topic or do people still want to whine on a thread that was created to have constructive discussion about the changes to the Nightblade class?

NyassaV · April 2018

BohnT wrote: »

any available counterplay can be avoided by clever useage.

The same can be said about just about any skill, ultimate or not

Gilvoth · April 2018

Daus wrote: »

You nerf Incap, and you'll kill the class ...

reduce the class to junk which is the ultimate goal of those desiring stamblades to be nerfed.

that is exactly what they are trying to do and they do it every single day and make multiple threads about it daily with different wording in the titles of their threads but is always the same thing, they are out for revenge and i hope the developers, the forum moderators, and the eso community will see that is what these few guys are doing.

i hate it.

Strider__Roshin · April 2018

The most appropriate change you could make to Strife is to have it match the magicka to damage ratio that Force Pulse has. They each have their own merits but having strife match the cost of Force Pulse is not a balanced change unless you have the damage of Strife match that of Force Pulse. By making this change you are effectively killing a class's spammable, and removing its uniqueness.

Feanor · April 2018

@Daus

We get it. Buffs only or get out of the thread. If that's your definition of constructive feedback then the thread could as well just be closed as there is nothing to discuss other than the magnitude of buffs. If you perceive Nightbksde as being in need of buffs it could be a) the class does need it or b) you're not a good Nightblade. I guess with most people defending the class b) is more likely.

ecru · April 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

7 pages of feedback, most people don't like Strife cost increase, but @ZOS_Wrobel will not even consider our feedback...
Depressing.

A nerf need to happen somewhere for PvE balance.

You can disagree with how the nerf come, and do give other way to bring magblade DPS in line with others.

But you can't disagree a nerf need to come.

Of course NB don't want to be nerf. No NB will say : I'm so happy to receive a nerf.

I feel like magblade effort/reward was pretty balanced, but since stam is getting nerfed, I guess magblade has to be also. Still, that doesn't mean they should dramatically alter the playstyle by forcing heavy attacks, but zos doesn't seem interested in the reasons why people play magblade in pve, only what their numbers are.

Ragnaroek93 · April 2018

Feanor wrote: »

@Daus

We get it. Buffs only or get out of the thread. If that's your definition of constructive feedback then the thread could as well just be closed as there is nothing to discuss other than the magnitude of buffs. If you perceive Nightbksde as being in need of buffs it could be a) the class does need it or b) you're not a good Nightblade. I guess with most people defending the class b) is more likely.

After all the buffs to magicka you really come in here to demand nerfs? They could give sorc an atomic bomb and you would still complain about nightblades.

Silver_Strider · April 2018

RavenSworn wrote: »

I rather

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Made my own post with all this but it quickly died to the back ends of the forum so I figure I'll repost it here.

Regarding some of the changes NB will see, I have to say that I am on the side that does not like the nerf to Strife or Path of Darkness. While I do understand the reasoning to an extent, I do feel as though these changes are particularly hurtful to NB Tanks and Healers. For Healers, Funnel Health is a very important HoT to maintain at all times so with the cost increase, it's putting a much greater strain on them and even with the Malevolent Offering Change providing a "free" burst heal to our allies, it's still a fairly risky ability especially now that it doesn't appear to work on the caster anymore (hoping it's just a bug that gets fixed but haven't seen any official statement on it as of yet). This also hurts NB Tanks as it's effectively increasing the cost of one of their most important tools for self healing and Ultimate Regen, which is one of their few defining characteristics as a tank. Refreshing Path is also very important to both NB healers and Tanks as its one of our most important buff skills and provides NBs one of their very few group utilities with extra offhealing for themselves and the group that I feel that the Healing component of these skills should be left alone entirely. Nerfing the heal on this skills puts more strain on NB tanks and healers as they have to use alternative means to make up for the lose and coupled with the Strife Nerf puts much greater strains on both roles. If there must be a cost increase to Strife, could it be to a lower extend than the current suggested amount or could the healing component of Strife be improved from 29% to 33% and if the healing component of Refreshing Path must be nerfed, can the cost of Path be reduced slightly as well?

I would also like to make a suggestion on Debilitate. While the rework is interesting, I feel it still falls short as far as a DPS ability as Crippling Grasp is just infinitely superior. As such, I would like to suggest that Debilitate be changed into a Minor Lifesteal debuff on the target while the DoT is in placed. Not only will this fit in with the Siphoning Tree being the Healer Skill Line for the class, it also fits thematically with the class as a Siphon Healer as well as gives some much needed utility to NBs by altering a fairly underwhelming ability into something much more desirable for Healers to use.

Continuing on with group utility, I would like to suggest Blur + Morphs to be reworked into a group buff, granting Minor or Major Evasion to party members (capped at 6). While the skill is currently fairly useful in its own right, NBs are still very lacking in group utility in comparison to most other classes. As such, reworking this ability and its morphs to provide either Minor or Major Evasion would help it be much more attractive an option for group play and help to fill in some more of the gap in group utility that NBs lack. I personally would prefer it to be Minor Evasion so as to try and limit its PvP interactions as passive dodge chance is fairly annoying as it there, it still has that potential whether it be Major or Minor Evasion as you can combine it with Shuffle and stack both of them and Major Evasion on 6 people also can be quite a challenge as well to fight in PvP so this one is a bit trickier to balance but I still feel Bur has the greatest potential as a group buff skill than anything else in our toolkit.

To conclude with the group utility suggestions, I would like Reaper's Mark to be altered to increase the damage the target takes in execute range instead of providing Major Berserk. While the Major Berserk has occasional usage, the skill still pales in comparison to Piercing Mark, which has a longer duration as well as its value in PvP against other NBs, so altering this ability to provide extra execute damage for the group would more than likely see this morph as a great addition to NB's PvE utility, plus it matches the name so well too. As for fear of NB DPS increasing as a result of Reaper's Mark, considering that it doesn't provide any substantial damage increase until >25% and that NBs would be hard pressed to drop any skill on their Hotbars to slot it without coming at a DPS loss in 1 way or another, I'm really not to sure whether or not a DPS NB would slot this whereas a Tank or Healer NB might be more inclined to do so.

Finally, I would like to suggest that Siphoning Strikes and morph be updated to provide a stronger heal/resource return on Heavy Attacks. Currently, it provides the same benefits regardless if you Light or Heavy attack, so it's weighed heavily in favor of Light Attacks as there are much quicker to get out. It would help with the sustain issues of NB tanks greatly as they have a much more difficult time getting in many light or heavy attacks in some end game instances that getting more resources back on Heavy Attacks would be a great help in that department.

TL;DR version:
Either increase the cost by a more reasonable amount or up the Healing component on Strife from 29% at Max Rank to 33%
Reduce the cost of Refreshing Path
Rework Debilitate to provide Minor Lifesteal
Rework Blur to Provide either Minor or Major Evasion to up to 6 party members
Rework Reaper's Mark to increase damage target takes for the group at execute phase (>25%) but lose the Major Berserk perk
Update Siphoning Strikes to provide more healing/resources on Heavy Attack.

I rather have Path to have a group synergy, both morphs dealing an instant direct damage to targets in the aoe. That can compensate with the loss of damage.

I'm on the fence on blur giving a group buff. It's... I don't know, a bit overkill? Not to mention the shadow ult gives movement speed boost...

Which leads me to your reapers mark change. Did you mean to just change the berserk buff to a major vulnerability for the group? You've gotta take away the major fracture and breach as well.
Now that we don't have an aoe fracture or breach (unless you have two wardens taking two different shalks), even having a different source for both these buff would offer options for groups.

I don't want nbs to end up being a buff machine, we were meant to be the perennial dps class, aside from sorcs by design. Let's focus on our class strength without watering down class identity.

A damage synergy would be fine for the Twisting Path morph but I'm more concerned with Refreshing Path as that's a very useful for NB tanks and Healers as the damage is not the primary focus on that morph.

Movement speed is pretty useless group utility, even more so when it's tied to a 200 Ccost Ultimate. Major Evasion is a problem in and of itself but lets consider that ZOS just added several sets that grant Major Evasion and I can already see the problem being multiplied several times over, not to mention Gossamer can already do what my suggestion for Blur would do. It doesn't have to carry over the Morph buffs to the group, just the Evasion and while PvP might be more difficult with Evasion everywhere, that's sort of already the case, with Summerset adding even more of it.

Reaper's Mark change wouldn't really need to lose the Major Fracture or Breech as those are mostly redundant in group settings as Tanks have both covered already with Piercing Armor. Maybe the extra healing on Reaper but I don't see much reason to remove Fracture or Breech as it's not exactly Major Vulnerability since its only in execute range that the target would take extra damage with Reapers up.

What NB was "meant" to be is subjective as every class has received changes to be viable in any role, not just DPS, and the sooner people accept that, the sooner we can get more real variety in the game instead of DK tank/Templar Healer and everything else is DPS.

HuawaSepp · April 2018

But really I mean, well I tested the Magblade on PTS now and why are they nerfing our sustain??
It's all about burst now in PVE. In PVP it's more cloak and try your luck.
They are buffing our dmg and nerfing our sustain and that ends in more heavy attacking.
Personally I wanna see less heavy attacking, really, pls.
I am OOM in ~55 sec. On live it's twice that much. There is nothing left than our meaningless PVE burst.

Killset · April 2018

BohnT wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

People will complain about Incap. A low cost ulti which applies a ton of debuffs is a sound concept for the debuff class. It just can’t burst as hard as it does currently.

Teleport Strike: Fixed an issue where casting this ability and its morphs would not remove you from invisibility.

I have a serious problem with this. Being able to cloak > Teleport Strike > Veiled Strike stun targets has been a core nightblades class mechanic since forever. Removing it is an unnecessary reduction of the class’s mechanical depth. It’s diluting class identity and pulling power out of the class to compensate for power creep from item sets and CP. It’s a slap in the face to nightblades honestly.

You already reduced Ambush > Incap stealth gank damage by reworking empower. Weaving to take advantage of the new empower would pull you out of stealth upon arrival anyways.

If it’s an issue with the extended cc duration passive layering with the stuns, then just get rid of the passive.

The combination of ambush + incap without breaking stealth was pretty devastating.
You got lots of buffs for your skills by using this.
Empower, both skills have access to 10% more weapon damage, both skills are guaranteed crits if you were stealthed which means another 10% extra crit damage.
And in the end it was a bug in the end.

On incap i stated numerous times that the stun has to go. For everyone who doesn't think the stun makes incap way more powerful than death stroke/ soul harvest. Create a magnb or a stamnb. Use Soul harvest for two weeks in pvp and then swap to incap afterwards.
Even with the small loss in damage when using incap on a magnb you'll notice how you can win lots of fights in less than 2 seconds after leaving cloak by simply hitting your enemy with incap + will.

The stun just opens a too big offensive window that makes a bursty class like NB way too powerful and in combination with their ability to disengage at will it's extremely unfair to play against.

I see you are still going strong on the nerf Nightblade campaign trail. Incap is a single target, dodgeable, and blockable ultimate. The defile is next to useless against shield users and the “low cost ultimate” often times translates into 140/210 ultimate after shuffles, blocks, and roll dodges are figured in. The defile only really hurts stamina (and not even Stamplar) and stamina has many tools to counter it. The stun and extra damage is on par with DBoS which is undodgeable, AOE, and has a DOT.

Nightblades have poor group utility (unlike every other class), no layered burst (unlike every other class aside from DK), and now you would see them have their single target effectiveness watered down even further.
If you were to have your way, why on earth would I ever play this class over a Stamplar, Stam Sorc, or Stam Warden, which offers so much more. Nightblades only claim to fame is strength in 1v1 and yet Stamblade is middle of the pack in this regard except against potatoes but who isn’t good against that.

BohnT · April 2018

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

People will complain about Incap. A low cost ulti which applies a ton of debuffs is a sound concept for the debuff class. It just can’t burst as hard as it does currently.

Teleport Strike: Fixed an issue where casting this ability and its morphs would not remove you from invisibility.

I have a serious problem with this. Being able to cloak > Teleport Strike > Veiled Strike stun targets has been a core nightblades class mechanic since forever. Removing it is an unnecessary reduction of the class’s mechanical depth. It’s diluting class identity and pulling power out of the class to compensate for power creep from item sets and CP. It’s a slap in the face to nightblades honestly.

You already reduced Ambush > Incap stealth gank damage by reworking empower. Weaving to take advantage of the new empower would pull you out of stealth upon arrival anyways.

If it’s an issue with the extended cc duration passive layering with the stuns, then just get rid of the passive.

The combination of ambush + incap without breaking stealth was pretty devastating.
You got lots of buffs for your skills by using this.
Empower, both skills have access to 10% more weapon damage, both skills are guaranteed crits if you were stealthed which means another 10% extra crit damage.
And in the end it was a bug in the end.

On incap i stated numerous times that the stun has to go. For everyone who doesn't think the stun makes incap way more powerful than death stroke/ soul harvest. Create a magnb or a stamnb. Use Soul harvest for two weeks in pvp and then swap to incap afterwards.
Even with the small loss in damage when using incap on a magnb you'll notice how you can win lots of fights in less than 2 seconds after leaving cloak by simply hitting your enemy with incap + will.

The stun just opens a too big offensive window that makes a bursty class like NB way too powerful and in combination with their ability to disengage at will it's extremely unfair to play against.

I see you are still going strong on the nerf Nightblade campaign trail. Incap is a single target, dodgeable, and blockable ultimate. The defile is next to useless against shield users and the “low cost ultimate” often times translates into 140/210 ultimate after shuffles, blocks, and roll dodges are figured in. The defile only really hurts stamina (and not even Stamplar) and stamina has many tools to counter it. The stun and extra damage is on par with DBoS which is undodgeable, AOE, and has a DOT.

Nightblades have poor group utility (unlike every other class), no layered burst (unlike every other class aside from DK), and now you would see them have their single target effectiveness watered down even further.
If you were to have your way, why on earth would I ever play this class over a Stamplar, Stam Sorc, or Stam Warden, which offers so much more. Nightblades only claim to fame is strength in 1v1 and yet Stamblade is middle of the pack in this regard except against potatoes but who isn’t good against that.

if you fail to hit 9/10 incaps it's your fault. you ac it and no one will avoid it wiht block or dodge, that single miss is due to passive Evasion but a good nb will always hit you.
Summoning @Subversus to tell People which spec is currently dominating everything (small hint it's stamnb)
Stamnb is the only class with enough burst skills to don't care about delayed burst skills.
Incap into will is 20k damage without LA weaving who cares if i had another delayed burst skill that guy is dead as the following 5 seconds every SA will hit harder than that incap also he has defile on him.

i'm sure incap is on par with DBoS when every nb is running incap including magnbs why aren't they running dbos when it's just as good or even better as you say? Because it's not with incap you can kill an enemy in 2 gcds and that's what makes a class which can disengage at will too strong. A delayed skill wouldn't even be needed most of the time you end mayn of your fights in few gcds after you leave cloak there wouldn't even be time to wait for the delayed burst to happen.

Maryal · April 2018

@BohnT Although it would be nice to have a serious and honest discussion about NBs, posts like yours are very biased and derail meaningful discussions.

BohnT · April 2018

Maryal wrote: »

@BohnT Although it would be nice to have a serious and honest discussion about NBs, posts like yours are very biased and derail meaningful discussions.

How is my post biased?
I Play stamnb since beta and it is overperforming right now.
Stamnb has been very strong, since incap was introduced it never was lackluster always strong, People thinking it's weak don't have the skill to Play the class at it's full strength.

right now there is one Encounter that you can't escape from and that is a magnb with mark and even the hardest Encounter for Stamnb isn't impossible to win. Also when i can win more than 60% of my Encounters before my enemy can react after i leave cloak something is wrong. I'm going from almost immortal to being a huge offensive threat in 1 gcd.
I don't think stamnb is totally broken like stamwarden, magdk pre 1.5 etc but incap is overperfoming and it pushes nb burst too much, also stamnb isn't remotly weak defensively they are really good with a proper build but most People just go for the full damage spec and then cry why they die in 2 seconds.
A stamnb can kill Players with 25k health in 3 gcds while running masters bow+shackle+bonepirate+1pc pirate Skeleton. Not one of the sets is a full damage set both provide only ~200 wpn dmg from their 5pc yet you can kill People with no effort and rather quickly.
Try using a Setup like this on any other class and get kills as easy as you can with stamnb while also having very good survivability.

exeeter702 · April 2018

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Minaithelan wrote: »

Hello, as a NB healer I'd like to share my thoughts. These are purely PvE as I don't PvP much. Also, all is still subject to testing, and I will try to compliment with more solid numbers as the days on the PTS pass.

Offering skill
Change from targeted to smart-targeted: Nice to have, as targeting someone in mechanics-heavy environments is really difficult; not impossible, but a bit impractical in some scenarios.

Change from HoT to Burst heal: Partially agree. Burst healing is nice to have, but a nice burst-HoT such as it is right now is something that differentiates how each class heals. Besides, the HoT was already significant to help tanks during burst phases.

Change from flat cost to DoT cost: I don't think this is the direction you should aim towards. If you really want all classes to compete in dungeons and trials just answer me this: how are NB healers expected to sustain a tank if they happen to be tank healers in vAS? Yes, sure, now they have a nice addition in the form of a burst heal, but if you have a DoT on top of all the dodgeable and ground based effects the bosses cast, they will simply underperform, especially in end-game where deaths matter a lot.

Refreshing path
Nerf to healing done: I do not agree with this. Nightblades have almost no team synergies, and most importantly, no way to regenerate resources for the team outside of Energy Orb. This means you need to STOP casting healing spells for an Orb-string-cast (usually 5-6 in a row to assure at least one will reach the tank). And while most of the group will actually benefit from that strong SPC-proc-heal-and-resource-regen combo, the tank will get a single orb with almost no heal for himself... and this assumes enough casts were done for at least one orb to leave the group. Yes, refreshing path may be over-performing a bit (NB healers are currently the kings and queens of Healing Done, and have been since Morrowind hit), but this over-performance does allow to keep a tank's health going while spamming orbs for the group. At the end, this change will make NB healing underperform, if slightly.

My reasoning is that Devs may be of the idea that the new regen skills will be slotted by tanks. If meta changes towards that direction, then I'd agree to the nerf. But I'd leave this change on the air until we see how the meta shifts.

Soul siphon
Change to a bigger range: Agree this was needed, especially for newest trials where re-positioning is important.

Ultimate cost not changed: However, I don't know about this detail. If we didn't have Wardens with a 90 ultimate cost or even the Resto Ulti at 125 I would not mind. Yes, the healing is insane, the buff is nice for burst and the synergy is ok (notice how each adjective slightly worsens?); but this cost is no longer competitive with other similar ultis. We already have morphs that lower ultimate cost, why not also do it for the healing one?

Bolstering Darkness
Change to lingering buff: Agree with this, as it not only competes but also stacks with Nova, and having both would be a nice addition. Nova still wins though, but at least we are on line with Storm (Wardens).

Target cap: The problem I see with this skill (and Warden's Storm one) is that the Major Protection buff is limited to 6 people, whereas the 30% damage done reduction will indirectly benefit all 12 participants in a trial, due to how each mechanic plays (also the reason why they can be stacked). So, it may be a change in the right direction but people will still prefer to run with a Templar.

What are NB healers still lacking?
Team synergies. These are a must, especially for healing skills. Alkosh is almost mandatory in all groups and we need to help the tank keep a good uptime. Adding a single synergy to either Refreshing path or Offering would be ideal as they are the healing skills more in contact with tanks.

An efficient way to help with resource regeneration. You could simply add this option via a synergy in Offering. Even if only one type of resource is regenerated instead of two (like Shards). Even more: I'd be happy to have my resources (Magicka or Stam) be siphoned to the ally that was smart-targeted with this skill, even on a 1-for-1 ratio. I don't think it may lead to abuses as it is tied to: 1) DoT for caster, 2) Synergy CD, 3) Resource Drain.

Major Resolve/Ward: Having a way to extend these two buffs in spite of wearing light armor. Right now you need to reapply Path every 6 seconds, which makes the rotation a bit difficult, especially during burst phases, where you need it the most. However, with the changes to Shadow Cloak we should have a way to survive, albeit for only 3 seconds.

These are my thought for now regarding NB healing, if someone wants to discuss and test on the PTS, more than welcome to add me. Cheers!

King’s and Queens of “Healing Done.”.....LoL. Not quite.

Funnel health? Heals only one person, and not nearly strong enough to be a burst heal.

They have zero access to minor mending. Zip. Zilch. So there’s 8% off their healing done.

Malevolent Offering - with the nerf to strife, this already weak heal is made all the worse, because then you have to so ehow heal YOURSELF back up, but yet you have no significant strong heals to do so.

Won’t consider any skills in resto staffs/orbs, because all classes have access to them, so wouldn’t matter if it as a nightblades.

Dragonknights - Kings/Queens of healing received

Templars - (from now until the fabric of Oblivion tears Tamriel asunder) the true King’s/Queens of Healing Done

Yeah no sorry, mathematically, nb HPS based on practical parses was actually ahead in healing done compared to other healers. And while overhealing isnt entirely an issue when your primary source healing is hots, raw heal throughput was never what made a good healer. Nb healers do have access to minor mending via offering, and this is on top of siphoning passives that directly boost all healing done. Funnel health when played appropriately by a nb healer is generally up in 5 targets at any given time, all the while rotating and refreshing on allies with mising hp.

No considering universal skills is a bit foolish as they exist for everyone, including templars. These skills are specifically designed to augment any class in any role. Malevolent offering on live is the single strongest hot in the game, that absolutely works as a tank heal with how hard it ticks for. Being a instanr burst heal now, i am against, but your critisim is baseless since its obvious you arent speaking from experience.

H4RDFOX · April 2018

BohnT wrote: »

H4RDFOX wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

developers, please do not nerf incap and please do not nerf cloak as these guys here are requesting.
the changes they are requesting simply do not need to be made.

i have been playing nightblade since 2013 beta. many nerfs were given to both dragonight and sorcerer class to bring them inline with the other classes. those people who played those classes are out for revenge against nightblade class and are daily trying to get revenge and allways asking for nightblades to be nerfed. it is not fair and i hope you guys can see what they are doing and also that they stop doing it and move on from this.

this entire thread is filled with requests to nerf nightblade incap and cloak and is totaly false information and missleading the devs into nerfing the class skills and ultimates that nightblade needs in order to not only survive but also be able to do any real damage in PvP.

I would agree, and I think the devs see so themselves, that much of the proposed nerfs to the NB class are coming from players who have experienced the death from a NB who is fulfilling their class objective well. I would suggest to my fellow NBs to construct valid counterarguments with logic and reasoning. We all know that NBs are assassins, and they execute as they should. If incap is going to be nerfed, then other ults should be nerfed as well. Incap can be mitigated! if you're stunned because of ambush or surprise attack, then i'm not sorry to break it to you, but it's time to meet Sithis.

No that's not how balance works.
Incap is the single most overloaded offensive skill in the game on the class with access to the most buffs.
Incap has low cost, good damage, major defile, 20% damage boost, knock down, fast travel time, any available counterplay can be avoided by clever useage.

Also saying you should die after being stunned is just as ridiculous as saying a nightblade should be dead as soon as it leaves cloak for 3 seconds. None of those things should be in the game.

Also you can't have the all powerful assassin's in a MMORPG they simply don't work in such a Environment vs real players. Either they are overperfoming as they are now or they are totally useless because they die in one second.
Removing the stun on incap is the best way to balance stamnb in pvp without touching its performance in pve.
To make a point like the dwarf guy: i main stamnb since closed beta done all vet trials including vhof hm and have 1vXed, dueled and small scaled hundreds of times.

As you stated, an offensive ability. It is working as intended. The landing of the ability plays a role as well, i'm sure there are percentages there that should be shown. It wasn't stated that you SHOULD be dying in a stun, but that if you are stunned then you will probably die to incap or shortly after, and that's ok. Hence why executioner passive is there; it lines up well with ambush+incap or whatever rotation has incap. In some cases nightblades die as soon as they leave cloak, and there is a valid discussion there. There are some players who feel the need to pitchfork NBs because they simply die more to them than any other class, BECAUSE THEY ARE ASSASSINS.

All classes have an ability with three attributes associated with them, and their passives which increase effectiveness. We can look at Templar's piercing javelin/puncturing strikes/nova/solar flare. DragonKnight's standard/lava whip/dragon blood. Sorcerer's negate/lightning form/bolt escape. Warden's betty netch/flacon's swiftness/sleet storm.

Feanor wrote: »

H4RDFOX wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

developers, please do not nerf incap and please do not nerf cloak as these guys here are requesting.
the changes they are requesting simply do not need to be made.

i have been playing nightblade since 2013 beta. many nerfs were given to both dragonight and sorcerer class to bring them inline with the other classes. those people who played those classes are out for revenge against nightblade class and are daily trying to get revenge and allways asking for nightblades to be nerfed. it is not fair and i hope you guys can see what they are doing and also that they stop doing it and move on from this.

this entire thread is filled with requests to nerf nightblade incap and cloak and is totaly false information and missleading the devs into nerfing the class skills and ultimates that nightblade needs in order to not only survive but also be able to do any real damage in PvP.

I would agree, and I think the devs see so themselves, that much of the proposed nerfs to the NB class are coming from players who have experienced the death from a NB who is fulfilling their class objective well. I would suggest to my fellow NBs to construct valid counterarguments with logic and reasoning. We all know that NBs are assassins, and they execute as they should. If incap is going to be nerfed, then other ults should be nerfed as well. Incap can be mitigated! if you're stunned because of ambush or surprise attack, then i'm not sorry to break it to you, but it's time to meet Sithis.

All fine. But as you can see in the thread, people aren’t asking for an assassin. They are asking for invincibility. Or why do you explain that NBs keep their burst and yet people still want awesome kiting and LoS via Shadow Image and snare removal and immunity to boot?

An assassin normally is dead once he gets discovered. It’s not what people here want for NB though. They want the easy burst, and if that fails, an easy carte blanche for escaping unscathed.

I‘m quite sure a part of why forum posts about Nightblades have been so rampant is the totally unrealistic views the users of the class state on these forums over and over.

Think about it. If the suggestions here would get taken seriously you’d have

- best Instant burst
- Best kiting
- Snare Removal and Immunity
- Stealth

And that’s why discussing NBs is so tiresome. It’s never enough for them and they always just receive nerfs in their eyes.

This is the NB. That is their class intention. It is to kill, and evade. Invincibility means too powerful, and it isn't. You can kill a NB, I can be killed as a NB, I have been killed as a NB. You can be killed by a NB. Any class can be killed, any class can 1vX, any class can apparently tank. NBs aren't pvp Gods. Sorcs can bolt escape, regen, and bounce or re-engage. That is what they have to evade. NBs have cloak to evade. DKs can tank lots of damage, temps can heal themselves or DKs until the opposition dies.

H4RDFOX · April 2018

Sparky617 wrote: »

Having Teleport strike and it's morphs "I use Lotus Fan" remove us from stealth really takes away an aspect of Nightblade that I loved. some people use a heavy attack as their sneak attack... I like to Lotus fan in for mine, and thats how it's been for 4 years!!! Why break it now?

From what I read, it makes sense that an ability removes you from stealth after it lands. That makes a lot of sense, but if the ability is executed, and it hasn't landed yet, it shouldn't break stealth. I think this is the case of that text. Otherwise shadowy disguise would be useless.

Teleport strike says "Flash through the shadows and ambush, dealing "x" damage... " That is a stealth'ed ability.

exeeter702 · April 2018

RavenSworn wrote: »

I rather

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Made my own post with all this but it quickly died to the back ends of the forum so I figure I'll repost it here.

Regarding some of the changes NB will see, I have to say that I am on the side that does not like the nerf to Strife or Path of Darkness. While I do understand the reasoning to an extent, I do feel as though these changes are particularly hurtful to NB Tanks and Healers. For Healers, Funnel Health is a very important HoT to maintain at all times so with the cost increase, it's putting a much greater strain on them and even with the Malevolent Offering Change providing a "free" burst heal to our allies, it's still a fairly risky ability especially now that it doesn't appear to work on the caster anymore (hoping it's just a bug that gets fixed but haven't seen any official statement on it as of yet). This also hurts NB Tanks as it's effectively increasing the cost of one of their most important tools for self healing and Ultimate Regen, which is one of their few defining characteristics as a tank. Refreshing Path is also very important to both NB healers and Tanks as its one of our most important buff skills and provides NBs one of their very few group utilities with extra offhealing for themselves and the group that I feel that the Healing component of these skills should be left alone entirely. Nerfing the heal on this skills puts more strain on NB tanks and healers as they have to use alternative means to make up for the lose and coupled with the Strife Nerf puts much greater strains on both roles. If there must be a cost increase to Strife, could it be to a lower extend than the current suggested amount or could the healing component of Strife be improved from 29% to 33% and if the healing component of Refreshing Path must be nerfed, can the cost of Path be reduced slightly as well?

I would also like to make a suggestion on Debilitate. While the rework is interesting, I feel it still falls short as far as a DPS ability as Crippling Grasp is just infinitely superior. As such, I would like to suggest that Debilitate be changed into a Minor Lifesteal debuff on the target while the DoT is in placed. Not only will this fit in with the Siphoning Tree being the Healer Skill Line for the class, it also fits thematically with the class as a Siphon Healer as well as gives some much needed utility to NBs by altering a fairly underwhelming ability into something much more desirable for Healers to use.

Continuing on with group utility, I would like to suggest Blur + Morphs to be reworked into a group buff, granting Minor or Major Evasion to party members (capped at 6). While the skill is currently fairly useful in its own right, NBs are still very lacking in group utility in comparison to most other classes. As such, reworking this ability and its morphs to provide either Minor or Major Evasion would help it be much more attractive an option for group play and help to fill in some more of the gap in group utility that NBs lack. I personally would prefer it to be Minor Evasion so as to try and limit its PvP interactions as passive dodge chance is fairly annoying as it there, it still has that potential whether it be Major or Minor Evasion as you can combine it with Shuffle and stack both of them and Major Evasion on 6 people also can be quite a challenge as well to fight in PvP so this one is a bit trickier to balance but I still feel Bur has the greatest potential as a group buff skill than anything else in our toolkit.

To conclude with the group utility suggestions, I would like Reaper's Mark to be altered to increase the damage the target takes in execute range instead of providing Major Berserk. While the Major Berserk has occasional usage, the skill still pales in comparison to Piercing Mark, which has a longer duration as well as its value in PvP against other NBs, so altering this ability to provide extra execute damage for the group would more than likely see this morph as a great addition to NB's PvE utility, plus it matches the name so well too. As for fear of NB DPS increasing as a result of Reaper's Mark, considering that it doesn't provide any substantial damage increase until >25% and that NBs would be hard pressed to drop any skill on their Hotbars to slot it without coming at a DPS loss in 1 way or another, I'm really not to sure whether or not a DPS NB would slot this whereas a Tank or Healer NB might be more inclined to do so.

Finally, I would like to suggest that Siphoning Strikes and morph be updated to provide a stronger heal/resource return on Heavy Attacks. Currently, it provides the same benefits regardless if you Light or Heavy attack, so it's weighed heavily in favor of Light Attacks as there are much quicker to get out. It would help with the sustain issues of NB tanks greatly as they have a much more difficult time getting in many light or heavy attacks in some end game instances that getting more resources back on Heavy Attacks would be a great help in that department.

TL;DR version:
Either increase the cost by a more reasonable amount or up the Healing component on Strife from 29% at Max Rank to 33%
Reduce the cost of Refreshing Path
Rework Debilitate to provide Minor Lifesteal
Rework Blur to Provide either Minor or Major Evasion to up to 6 party members
Rework Reaper's Mark to increase damage target takes for the group at execute phase (>25%) but lose the Major Berserk perk
Update Siphoning Strikes to provide more healing/resources on Heavy Attack.

were meant to be the perennial dps class, aside from sorcs by design.

This is fundamentally false.

Stickbow · April 2018

xAk_MoRRoWiNdx wrote: »

Stickbow wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

<snip> Make merciless similar like a proc like crystal frags? Give us some sort of utility instead of constantly just hitting us with a nerf hammer every patch. <snip>

This may be one of the best ideas I've seen - though I'm sure someone would find a way to disagree. It should probably be posted in some thread on "suggestions for improvement".

The need to build a good rotation and weave to proc Merciless enough to boost DPS is actually a cool thing in some ways - it makes you have to pay attention and not just mash keys. On the other hand, it seems NB is the only class that has something that requires this much attention (crystal frag being the only close exception).

If there is a desire to make classes truly balanced at the top tiers -- i.e., nerfing things to make the leet player less leet (and generally hurting the average player by changing what you can weave/how much damage it does/etc., Merciless Resolve becomes harder and harder to manage in real world situations vs. on a dummy.

For the record - I am not a newb who just rolled stamblade/magblade thinking it was easy mode - I actually *know* that using Merciless resolve makes it one of the harder classes to dig every bit of DPS you can out of. I have pretty much one of every dps "style" (class + stam/mag) at CP160, plus a tank and main healer, and play them enough to see the difference between them in both solo/group PVE and solo/group PVP. (Why do I feel obligated to say something like this in every NB thread?)

Lol. My friend moved to Magblade from Magsorc and said Merciless is like frags but on your own terms and better. I'd prefer it not to be like Frags unless it got a damage boost to be on the level of frags haha.

I'd rather both frags and Merciless had a smoother integration into play -- just not sure what that is, and I find that (at least I) get frags off more smoothly in the rotation than Merc - especially on my Magblade, since it's on my AOE bar right now (not room on the ST bar) and I stay on the ST bar longer. Similar issue with my Stamblade - it's on his bow bar for lack of a better place to put it (and it's 'ranged').

Heck, if we had one more slot on our bars, I'd double bar it and it would be a moot point.

NyassaV · April 2018

BohnT wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

People will complain about Incap. A low cost ulti which applies a ton of debuffs is a sound concept for the debuff class. It just can’t burst as hard as it does currently.

Teleport Strike: Fixed an issue where casting this ability and its morphs would not remove you from invisibility.

I have a serious problem with this. Being able to cloak > Teleport Strike > Veiled Strike stun targets has been a core nightblades class mechanic since forever. Removing it is an unnecessary reduction of the class’s mechanical depth. It’s diluting class identity and pulling power out of the class to compensate for power creep from item sets and CP. It’s a slap in the face to nightblades honestly.

You already reduced Ambush > Incap stealth gank damage by reworking empower. Weaving to take advantage of the new empower would pull you out of stealth upon arrival anyways.

If it’s an issue with the extended cc duration passive layering with the stuns, then just get rid of the passive.

The combination of ambush + incap without breaking stealth was pretty devastating.
You got lots of buffs for your skills by using this.
Empower, both skills have access to 10% more weapon damage, both skills are guaranteed crits if you were stealthed which means another 10% extra crit damage.
And in the end it was a bug in the end.

On incap i stated numerous times that the stun has to go. For everyone who doesn't think the stun makes incap way more powerful than death stroke/ soul harvest. Create a magnb or a stamnb. Use Soul harvest for two weeks in pvp and then swap to incap afterwards.
Even with the small loss in damage when using incap on a magnb you'll notice how you can win lots of fights in less than 2 seconds after leaving cloak by simply hitting your enemy with incap + will.

The stun just opens a too big offensive window that makes a bursty class like NB way too powerful and in combination with their ability to disengage at will it's extremely unfair to play against.

I see you are still going strong on the nerf Nightblade campaign trail. Incap is a single target, dodgeable, and blockable ultimate. The defile is next to useless against shield users and the “low cost ultimate” often times translates into 140/210 ultimate after shuffles, blocks, and roll dodges are figured in. The defile only really hurts stamina (and not even Stamplar) and stamina has many tools to counter it. The stun and extra damage is on par with DBoS which is undodgeable, AOE, and has a DOT.

Nightblades have poor group utility (unlike every other class), no layered burst (unlike every other class aside from DK), and now you would see them have their single target effectiveness watered down even further.
If you were to have your way, why on earth would I ever play this class over a Stamplar, Stam Sorc, or Stam Warden, which offers so much more. Nightblades only claim to fame is strength in 1v1 and yet Stamblade is middle of the pack in this regard except against potatoes but who isn’t good against that.

if you fail to hit 9/10 incaps it's your fault. you ac it and no one will avoid it wiht block or dodge, that single miss is due to passive Evasion but a good nb will always hit you.
Summoning @Subversus to tell People which spec is currently dominating everything (small hint it's stamnb)
Stamnb is the only class with enough burst skills to don't care about delayed burst skills.
Incap into will is 20k damage without LA weaving who cares if i had another delayed burst skill that guy is dead as the following 5 seconds every SA will hit harder than that incap also he has defile on him.

i'm sure incap is on par with DBoS when every nb is running incap including magnbs why aren't they running dbos when it's just as good or even better as you say? Because it's not with incap you can kill an enemy in 2 gcds and that's what makes a class which can disengage at will too strong. A delayed skill wouldn't even be needed most of the time you end mayn of your fights in few gcds after you leave cloak there wouldn't even be time to wait for the delayed burst to happen.

This is pretty inaccurate. Things get blocked and dodged all the time. A lot of smart templars I fight purge themselves of the debuff too. Sometimes it's passive and sometimes it's active. I still wish soul harvest went through dodge cuz that way magblade would have a reason to use it over incap

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER · April 2018

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Daus

We get it. Buffs only or get out of the thread. If that's your definition of constructive feedback then the thread could as well just be closed as there is nothing to discuss other than the magnitude of buffs. If you perceive Nightbksde as being in need of buffs it could be a) the class does need it or b) you're not a good Nightblade. I guess with most people defending the class b) is more likely.

After all the buffs to magicka you really come in here to demand nerfs? They could give sorc an atomic bomb and you would still complain about nightblades.

Which buffs to magicka?

Minalan · April 2018

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Daus

We get it. Buffs only or get out of the thread. If that's your definition of constructive feedback then the thread could as well just be closed as there is nothing to discuss other than the magnitude of buffs. If you perceive Nightbksde as being in need of buffs it could be a) the class does need it or b) you're not a good Nightblade. I guess with most people defending the class b) is more likely.

After all the buffs to magicka you really come in here to demand nerfs? They could give sorc an atomic bomb and you would still complain about nightblades.

Umm.. They actually DID give Sorc an atomic bomb.

Head to PTS, it’s hilarious.

BohnT · April 2018

NyassaV wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

People will complain about Incap. A low cost ulti which applies a ton of debuffs is a sound concept for the debuff class. It just can’t burst as hard as it does currently.

Teleport Strike: Fixed an issue where casting this ability and its morphs would not remove you from invisibility.

I have a serious problem with this. Being able to cloak > Teleport Strike > Veiled Strike stun targets has been a core nightblades class mechanic since forever. Removing it is an unnecessary reduction of the class’s mechanical depth. It’s diluting class identity and pulling power out of the class to compensate for power creep from item sets and CP. It’s a slap in the face to nightblades honestly.

You already reduced Ambush > Incap stealth gank damage by reworking empower. Weaving to take advantage of the new empower would pull you out of stealth upon arrival anyways.

If it’s an issue with the extended cc duration passive layering with the stuns, then just get rid of the passive.

The combination of ambush + incap without breaking stealth was pretty devastating.
You got lots of buffs for your skills by using this.
Empower, both skills have access to 10% more weapon damage, both skills are guaranteed crits if you were stealthed which means another 10% extra crit damage.
And in the end it was a bug in the end.

On incap i stated numerous times that the stun has to go. For everyone who doesn't think the stun makes incap way more powerful than death stroke/ soul harvest. Create a magnb or a stamnb. Use Soul harvest for two weeks in pvp and then swap to incap afterwards.
Even with the small loss in damage when using incap on a magnb you'll notice how you can win lots of fights in less than 2 seconds after leaving cloak by simply hitting your enemy with incap + will.

The stun just opens a too big offensive window that makes a bursty class like NB way too powerful and in combination with their ability to disengage at will it's extremely unfair to play against.

I see you are still going strong on the nerf Nightblade campaign trail. Incap is a single target, dodgeable, and blockable ultimate. The defile is next to useless against shield users and the “low cost ultimate” often times translates into 140/210 ultimate after shuffles, blocks, and roll dodges are figured in. The defile only really hurts stamina (and not even Stamplar) and stamina has many tools to counter it. The stun and extra damage is on par with DBoS which is undodgeable, AOE, and has a DOT.

Nightblades have poor group utility (unlike every other class), no layered burst (unlike every other class aside from DK), and now you would see them have their single target effectiveness watered down even further.
If you were to have your way, why on earth would I ever play this class over a Stamplar, Stam Sorc, or Stam Warden, which offers so much more. Nightblades only claim to fame is strength in 1v1 and yet Stamblade is middle of the pack in this regard except against potatoes but who isn’t good against that.

if you fail to hit 9/10 incaps it's your fault. you ac it and no one will avoid it wiht block or dodge, that single miss is due to passive Evasion but a good nb will always hit you.
Summoning @Subversus to tell People which spec is currently dominating everything (small hint it's stamnb)
Stamnb is the only class with enough burst skills to don't care about delayed burst skills.
Incap into will is 20k damage without LA weaving who cares if i had another delayed burst skill that guy is dead as the following 5 seconds every SA will hit harder than that incap also he has defile on him.

i'm sure incap is on par with DBoS when every nb is running incap including magnbs why aren't they running dbos when it's just as good or even better as you say? Because it's not with incap you can kill an enemy in 2 gcds and that's what makes a class which can disengage at will too strong. A delayed skill wouldn't even be needed most of the time you end mayn of your fights in few gcds after you leave cloak there wouldn't even be time to wait for the delayed burst to happen.

This is pretty inaccurate. Things get blocked and dodged all the time. A lot of smart templars I fight purge themselves of the debuff too. Sometimes it's passive and sometimes it's active. I still wish soul harvest went through dodge cuz that way magblade would have a reason to use it over incap

No offence but do you just spam abilities without looking what your enemy does? When i setup a burst combo I absolutely make sure that my incap isn't dodged or blocked if you focus a bit you can hit almost any incap you'll ever use.
That's ones class and the best way to avoid that is to only use incap with will to put as much damage on that templar as you can and he'll be in a situation where he has to decide to purge and still be at low health risking getting killed or he tries to heal back up and might get screwed by the defile.

Even with SH being undodgeable incap still remains op it opens up too much burst for any class. Dodgeable SH is the skill it should be balanced around and not incap which is just way too strong in its current form

BohnT · April 2018

Minalan wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Daus

We get it. Buffs only or get out of the thread. If that's your definition of constructive feedback then the thread could as well just be closed as there is nothing to discuss other than the magnitude of buffs. If you perceive Nightbksde as being in need of buffs it could be a) the class does need it or b) you're not a good Nightblade. I guess with most people defending the class b) is more likely.

After all the buffs to magicka you really come in here to demand nerfs? They could give sorc an atomic bomb and you would still complain about nightblades.

Umm.. They actually DID give Sorc an atomic bomb.

Head to PTS, it’s hilarious.

You mean empowered overload?

Love Wizard · April 2018

Reduce cost of strife again, make it only have an increased cost with the funnel morph. Revert the twisting path nerf, the cost change is enough by itself, and if we continue to see gaps, then implement the twisting path nerf aswell.

Minalan · April 2018

BohnT wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Daus

We get it. Buffs only or get out of the thread. If that's your definition of constructive feedback then the thread could as well just be closed as there is nothing to discuss other than the magnitude of buffs. If you perceive Nightbksde as being in need of buffs it could be a) the class does need it or b) you're not a good Nightblade. I guess with most people defending the class b) is more likely.

After all the buffs to magicka you really come in here to demand nerfs? They could give sorc an atomic bomb and you would still complain about nightblades.

Umm.. They actually DID give Sorc an atomic bomb.

Head to PTS, it’s hilarious.

You mean empowered overload?

That or the messed up 2H ultimate scaling with 50K Max Magicka.

Rune cage + ultimate that hits for 27K+ = Sorc nerf threads!

You know they’ll fix these though..

BohnT · April 2018

Minalan wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Daus

We get it. Buffs only or get out of the thread. If that's your definition of constructive feedback then the thread could as well just be closed as there is nothing to discuss other than the magnitude of buffs. If you perceive Nightbksde as being in need of buffs it could be a) the class does need it or b) you're not a good Nightblade. I guess with most people defending the class b) is more likely.

After all the buffs to magicka you really come in here to demand nerfs? They could give sorc an atomic bomb and you would still complain about nightblades.

Umm.. They actually DID give Sorc an atomic bomb.

Head to PTS, it’s hilarious.

You mean empowered overload?

That or the messed up 2H ultimate scaling with 50K Max Magicka.

Rune cage + ultimate that hits for 27K+ = Sorc nerf threads!

You know they’ll fix these though..

I bet they won't change anything about that 2h

And i guarantee that in those nerf mag sorc post sorcs will say it's balanced and nb gankers will say that no one should be able to do this much damage

Murador178 · April 2018

Minalan wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Daus

We get it. Buffs only or get out of the thread. If that's your definition of constructive feedback then the thread could as well just be closed as there is nothing to discuss other than the magnitude of buffs. If you perceive Nightbksde as being in need of buffs it could be a) the class does need it or b) you're not a good Nightblade. I guess with most people defending the class b) is more likely.

After all the buffs to magicka you really come in here to demand nerfs? They could give sorc an atomic bomb and you would still complain about nightblades.

Umm.. They actually DID give Sorc an atomic bomb.

Head to PTS, it’s hilarious.

You mean empowered overload?

That or the messed up 2H ultimate scaling with 50K Max Magicka.

Rune cage + ultimate that hits for 27K+ = Sorc nerf threads!

You know they’ll fix these though..

sorc got alot of 1 shot possibilities vs non full tanks - even ones requiring no ultimate.