PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Warden Balance
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AlcastClass RepresentativeMLGProPlayer wrote: »Not saying I do know now 100% why such things happening, but I just saw @Alcast reading the pts patchnotes, at the deep fissure nerf, NO JOKE, he is saying " this skill is too strong and the nerf is good".
If those guys are in charge balancing and giving feedback to ZOS - good night. Did this guy every played a mag warden in pvp?
@Waffennacht @Hutch679 @MLGProPlayer we are dead haha
In my opinion, any ability that has high aoe damage, aoe stun, aoe undodgeable dmg, aoe unblockable dmg is too strong yes.
That this is wardens only direct ability to get access to a stun in the class line is a whole other problem.
Fair enough.
But when they start nerfing a class that's already underperforming, there needs to be compensation elsewhere in the kit. ZOS hasn't given the class any buffs, despite it being the most underrepresented class in endgame.
Yes that is true.
Just to clarify:
1. That change was already implemented when we were at ZOSHQ.
2. I did not give any PVP feedback at ZOSHQ.
The class representative program is ZOS approach to balance the classes better both in PvE and PvP. I am not sure tho how far they are with that?Edited by Alcast on April 19, 2018 7:56AMhttps://alcasthq.com - Alcasthq.com Builds & Guides
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Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stamina warden are strong in pvp becouse they get weapon skills that are actually worth using
Destruction staff has no spammable. (crushing shock costs me 2.7k mag and i'm a breton)
Clench without the master destro costs 3+ k
The only good thing there is Blockade that does better then the warden aoe, which is pitiful
Warden is becoming a grouping tool. If it wasn't for how funny it is to use nature grasp, i woudn't play it
Class ccs are not only used as offence, they are also used for defence, becouse if i'm facing multiple opponents i need to trutle up and the only way to counter attack is getting time to do it, ccing gives me the time to counter attack. With no class CC (and if you you a ice staff, no cc at all) oh boy if you are gonna have an hard time counter attackingEdited by Skander on April 19, 2018 9:43AMI meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations1 -
Torbschka✭✭✭✭Not saying I do know now 100% why such things happening, but I just saw @Alcast reading the pts patchnotes, at the deep fissure nerf, NO JOKE, he is saying " this skill is too strong and the nerf is good".
If those guys are in charge balancing and giving feedback to ZOS - good night. Did this guy every played a mag warden in pvp?
@Waffennacht @Hutch679 @MLGProPlayer we are dead haha
In my opinion, any ability that has high aoe damage, stun, aoe undodgeable dmg, aoe unblockable dmg is too strong yes.
That this is wardens only direct ability to get access to a stun in the class line is a whole other problem.
Cant agree here at all, this is just to simple reasoning. I see such answers quite often from my students though.
Just to give u some idea about what Im speaking and the reasoning behindert it:
U cant take that skill, put it in a box and dont look at the rest, not only warden skills, but any other skills.
We dont have the mobility of sorc. We dont have cloak to reset fights. We dont have an execute. We dont have an cheap instant burst stun ulti.
So, what im saying is, sorry, this is just dumb reasoning. Yes, such a skill u describing is strong, but, is it too strong on a class with the wardens kit? Thats totally different. Furthermore, saying that "no stun is a other problem" - no, exactly not. U build a class about defining skills, not about generalising them, because the are u are working with is always totally different from other classes...
Sorry, this is just cheap arguing -not only OM ESO, but in General.1 -
AlcastClass RepresentativeNot saying I do know now 100% why such things happening, but I just saw @Alcast reading the pts patchnotes, at the deep fissure nerf, NO JOKE, he is saying " this skill is too strong and the nerf is good".
If those guys are in charge balancing and giving feedback to ZOS - good night. Did this guy every played a mag warden in pvp?
@Waffennacht @Hutch679 @MLGProPlayer we are dead haha
In my opinion, any ability that has high aoe damage, stun, aoe undodgeable dmg, aoe unblockable dmg is too strong yes.
That this is wardens only direct ability to get access to a stun in the class line is a whole other problem.
Cant agree here at all, this is just to simple reasoning. I see such answers quite often from my students though.
Just to give u some idea about what Im speaking and the reasoning behindert it:
U cant take that skill, put it in a box and dont look at the rest, not only warden skills, but any other skills.
We dont have the mobility of sorc. We dont have cloak to reset fights. We dont have an execute. We dont have an cheap instant burst stun ulti.
So, what im saying is, sorry, this is just dumb reasoning. Yes, such a skill u describing is strong, but, is it too strong on a class with the wardens kit? Thats totally different. Furthermore, saying that "no stun is a other problem" - no, exactly not. U build a class about defining skills, not about generalising them, because the are u are working with is always totally different from other classes...
Sorry, this is just cheap arguing -not only OM ESO, but in General.
All I am saying, a skill that has so much power should not exist on any class. I am fully aware that wardens have other problems.
I could write a 2 page article to go into great detail, but no thanks, short answer has to be enough. And sometimes people do not agree with each other, I have no problems with your reasoning as well, I do understand it. In the end its up to Wrobel to balance the class, all we can do is provide feedback.Edited by Alcast on April 19, 2018 12:01PMhttps://alcasthq.com - Alcasthq.com Builds & Guides
https://eso-hub.com - ESO-Hub.com Sets, Skills, Guides & News
https://dwemerautomaton.com - Discord, Telegram & Twitch Command Bot0 -
xbobx✭✭✭✭✭Not saying I do know now 100% why such things happening, but I just saw @Alcast reading the pts patchnotes, at the deep fissure nerf, NO JOKE, he is saying " this skill is too strong and the nerf is good".
If those guys are in charge balancing and giving feedback to ZOS - good night. Did this guy every played a mag warden in pvp?
@Waffennacht @Hutch679 @MLGProPlayer we are dead haha
In my opinion, any ability that has high aoe damage, stun, aoe undodgeable dmg, aoe unblockable dmg is too strong yes.
That this is wardens only direct ability to get access to a stun in the class line is a whole other problem.
Cant agree here at all, this is just to simple reasoning. I see such answers quite often from my students though.
Just to give u some idea about what Im speaking and the reasoning behindert it:
U cant take that skill, put it in a box and dont look at the rest, not only warden skills, but any other skills.
We dont have the mobility of sorc. We dont have cloak to reset fights. We dont have an execute. We dont have an cheap instant burst stun ulti.
So, what im saying is, sorry, this is just dumb reasoning. Yes, such a skill u describing is strong, but, is it too strong on a class with the wardens kit? Thats totally different. Furthermore, saying that "no stun is a other problem" - no, exactly not. U build a class about defining skills, not about generalising them, because the are u are working with is always totally different from other classes...
Sorry, this is just cheap arguing -not only OM ESO, but in General.
wardens have an execute, would people please stop saying that. It may not be the one you want, but its there.0 -
MinarasLaure✭✭✭✭Not saying I do know now 100% why such things happening, but I just saw @Alcast reading the pts patchnotes, at the deep fissure nerf, NO JOKE, he is saying " this skill is too strong and the nerf is good".
If those guys are in charge balancing and giving feedback to ZOS - good night. Did this guy every played a mag warden in pvp?
@Waffennacht @Hutch679 @MLGProPlayer we are dead haha
In my opinion, any ability that has high aoe damage, stun, aoe undodgeable dmg, aoe unblockable dmg is too strong yes.
That this is wardens only direct ability to get access to a stun in the class line is a whole other problem.
Cant agree here at all, this is just to simple reasoning. I see such answers quite often from my students though.
Just to give u some idea about what Im speaking and the reasoning behindert it:
U cant take that skill, put it in a box and dont look at the rest, not only warden skills, but any other skills.
We dont have the mobility of sorc. We dont have cloak to reset fights. We dont have an execute. We dont have an cheap instant burst stun ulti.
So, what im saying is, sorry, this is just dumb reasoning. Yes, such a skill u describing is strong, but, is it too strong on a class with the wardens kit? Thats totally different. Furthermore, saying that "no stun is a other problem" - no, exactly not. U build a class about defining skills, not about generalising them, because the are u are working with is always totally different from other classes...
Sorry, this is just cheap arguing -not only OM ESO, but in General.
All I am saying, a skill that has so much power should not exist on any class. I am fully aware that wardens have other problems.
I could write a 2 page article to go into great detail, but no thanks, short answer has to be enough. And sometimes people do not agree with each other, I have no problems with your reasoning as well, I do understand it. In the end its up to Wrobel to balance the class, all we can do is provide feedback.
But that skill is not op at all.
It's dodgeable, it's blockable and even if it's aoe the stun is single target.
Oh, and it's not instant cast, which means that is even easier to dodge.
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mb10✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Does anyone have an answer as to why the bear ultimate is the only ultimate in game that needs to be slotted on both bars?
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Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Not saying I do know now 100% why such things happening, but I just saw @Alcast reading the pts patchnotes, at the deep fissure nerf, NO JOKE, he is saying " this skill is too strong and the nerf is good".
If those guys are in charge balancing and giving feedback to ZOS - good night. Did this guy every played a mag warden in pvp?
@Waffennacht @Hutch679 @MLGProPlayer we are dead haha
In my opinion, any ability that has high aoe damage, stun, aoe undodgeable dmg, aoe unblockable dmg is too strong yes.
That this is wardens only direct ability to get access to a stun in the class line is a whole other problem.
Cant agree here at all, this is just to simple reasoning. I see such answers quite often from my students though.
Just to give u some idea about what Im speaking and the reasoning behindert it:
U cant take that skill, put it in a box and dont look at the rest, not only warden skills, but any other skills.
We dont have the mobility of sorc. We dont have cloak to reset fights. We dont have an execute. We dont have an cheap instant burst stun ulti.
So, what im saying is, sorry, this is just dumb reasoning. Yes, such a skill u describing is strong, but, is it too strong on a class with the wardens kit? Thats totally different. Furthermore, saying that "no stun is a other problem" - no, exactly not. U build a class about defining skills, not about generalising them, because the are u are working with is always totally different from other classes...
Sorry, this is just cheap arguing -not only OM ESO, but in General.
All I am saying, a skill that has so much power should not exist on any class. I am fully aware that wardens have other problems.
I could write a 2 page article to go into great detail, but no thanks, short answer has to be enough. And sometimes people do not agree with each other, I have no problems with your reasoning as well, I do understand it. In the end its up to Wrobel to balance the class, all we can do is provide feedback.
Thing is though that the skill still has downsides that keep that power in check. For instance, the skill is quite damaging alright (have had 15k+ tooltips) but at the same time it's not a projectile or anything like that. It's a delayed skill that damages anything in the direction the Warden is facing, meaning that there's plenty of time to react and that it's easily avoided. I consider this skill a "risk vs reward" type of skill: will we be able to actually damage smth or will we have just wasted our Magicka for nothing.
Btw, this weakness is really obvious whenever you're fighting a Mag DK who loves his Talons...
And then there's the stun, which only affects 1 target: the closest one to the Warden that isn't CC Immune. If it did stun everything it hits, then yeah it would be OP. But with only 1 target stunned, it makes the skill just right as it enables us to put pressure on someone, set up burst or even catch a break when fighting multiple enemies by disabling one of them.
So what I'm trying to say here is: this skill is not too powerful, it is just right. And it forms the foundation of a MagDen's offense in PvP scenarios."Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU3 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Not saying I do know now 100% why such things happening, but I just saw @Alcast reading the pts patchnotes, at the deep fissure nerf, NO JOKE, he is saying " this skill is too strong and the nerf is good".
If those guys are in charge balancing and giving feedback to ZOS - good night. Did this guy every played a mag warden in pvp?
@Waffennacht @Hutch679 @MLGProPlayer we are dead haha
In my opinion, any ability that has high aoe damage, stun, aoe undodgeable dmg, aoe unblockable dmg is too strong yes.
That this is wardens only direct ability to get access to a stun in the class line is a whole other problem.
Cant agree here at all, this is just to simple reasoning. I see such answers quite often from my students though.
Just to give u some idea about what Im speaking and the reasoning behindert it:
U cant take that skill, put it in a box and dont look at the rest, not only warden skills, but any other skills.
We dont have the mobility of sorc. We dont have cloak to reset fights. We dont have an execute. We dont have an cheap instant burst stun ulti.
So, what im saying is, sorry, this is just dumb reasoning. Yes, such a skill u describing is strong, but, is it too strong on a class with the wardens kit? Thats totally different. Furthermore, saying that "no stun is a other problem" - no, exactly not. U build a class about defining skills, not about generalising them, because the are u are working with is always totally different from other classes...
Sorry, this is just cheap arguing -not only OM ESO, but in General.
All I am saying, a skill that has so much power should not exist on any class. I am fully aware that wardens have other problems.
I could write a 2 page article to go into great detail, but no thanks, short answer has to be enough. And sometimes people do not agree with each other, I have no problems with your reasoning as well, I do understand it. In the end its up to Wrobel to balance the class, all we can do is provide feedback.
Just one serious question, maybe you can answer it: you've been to ZOS, are they aware of the Warden complains and issues? If no, how is that possible? If yes, why are they so ignorant about it and seem to not care? I mean 4.0 offers absolutely nothing to improve MagWarden performance.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Not saying I do know now 100% why such things happening, but I just saw @Alcast reading the pts patchnotes, at the deep fissure nerf, NO JOKE, he is saying " this skill is too strong and the nerf is good".
If those guys are in charge balancing and giving feedback to ZOS - good night. Did this guy every played a mag warden in pvp?
@Waffennacht @Hutch679 @MLGProPlayer we are dead haha
In my opinion, any ability that has high aoe damage, stun, aoe undodgeable dmg, aoe unblockable dmg is too strong yes.
That this is wardens only direct ability to get access to a stun in the class line is a whole other problem.
Cant agree here at all, this is just to simple reasoning. I see such answers quite often from my students though.
Just to give u some idea about what Im speaking and the reasoning behindert it:
U cant take that skill, put it in a box and dont look at the rest, not only warden skills, but any other skills.
We dont have the mobility of sorc. We dont have cloak to reset fights. We dont have an execute. We dont have an cheap instant burst stun ulti.
So, what im saying is, sorry, this is just dumb reasoning. Yes, such a skill u describing is strong, but, is it too strong on a class with the wardens kit? Thats totally different. Furthermore, saying that "no stun is a other problem" - no, exactly not. U build a class about defining skills, not about generalising them, because the are u are working with is always totally different from other classes...
Sorry, this is just cheap arguing -not only OM ESO, but in General.
wardens have an execute, would people please stop saying that. It may not be the one you want, but its there.
It's an Ultimate that you can activate maybe 4 times a minute and doesn't do much more damage than Impale or Wrath. That's a great execute.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -3 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Not saying I do know now 100% why such things happening, but I just saw @Alcast reading the pts patchnotes, at the deep fissure nerf, NO JOKE, he is saying " this skill is too strong and the nerf is good".
If those guys are in charge balancing and giving feedback to ZOS - good night. Did this guy every played a mag warden in pvp?
@Waffennacht @Hutch679 @MLGProPlayer we are dead haha
In my opinion, any ability that has high aoe damage, stun, aoe undodgeable dmg, aoe unblockable dmg is too strong yes.
That this is wardens only direct ability to get access to a stun in the class line is a whole other problem.
You can hold that opinion, but the fact that the magicka Warden has it and still isn't very good in PvP demonstrates the combination is not too strong. Indeed, not strong enough.
If we are going to fix Wardens such that they can be decent without this combination, it would require a complete redesign of the class. The buff skills would have to dropped and turned into damage abilities which provide those buffs in order to give the Warden legitimate options, one of which is an execute that does not involve a too hard to control pet in open world cyrodiil. Giving them the "sorc" treatment of just throwing on a silly "press this button and automatically stun the enemy no matter what they are doing" isn't going to do the job: sorcs only kind of make it work because they have curse and fury and even then the class is not nearly as good as it used to be.
The class isn't going to get redesigned and we see every night in cyrodiil this combination is not too strong because context matters - mag wardens are weak and have limited offensive options - so there would be no harm for ZoS to revert the change.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.8 -
mb10✭✭✭✭✭
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More powerful than destro ult and negate?
It's single target lol not even more powerful than soul assault0 -
Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
More powerful than destro ult and negate?
It's single target lol not even more powerful than soul assault
1st and 3rd were duels, 2nd was in Cyro. And in PvE, it executes for up to 80-90k damage per ulti.
Bear is actually really powerful, and I think it would be best if it stayed a double-barred ability. However, ZOS still needs to make improvements, but more towards the synergy between the Warden and the Guardian: pet shields, heals, etc... Things that would make the Bear more useable and give it better survivabilityEdited by Tryxus on April 19, 2018 2:27PM"Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU2 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭Not saying I do know now 100% why such things happening, but I just saw @Alcast reading the pts patchnotes, at the deep fissure nerf, NO JOKE, he is saying " this skill is too strong and the nerf is good".
If those guys are in charge balancing and giving feedback to ZOS - good night. Did this guy every played a mag warden in pvp?
@Waffennacht @Hutch679 @MLGProPlayer we are dead haha
In my opinion, any ability that has high aoe damage, stun, aoe undodgeable dmg, aoe unblockable dmg is too strong yes.
That this is wardens only direct ability to get access to a stun in the class line is a whole other problem.
Cant agree here at all, this is just to simple reasoning. I see such answers quite often from my students though.
Just to give u some idea about what Im speaking and the reasoning behindert it:
U cant take that skill, put it in a box and dont look at the rest, not only warden skills, but any other skills.
We dont have the mobility of sorc. We dont have cloak to reset fights. We dont have an execute. We dont have an cheap instant burst stun ulti.
So, what im saying is, sorry, this is just dumb reasoning. Yes, such a skill u describing is strong, but, is it too strong on a class with the wardens kit? Thats totally different. Furthermore, saying that "no stun is a other problem" - no, exactly not. U build a class about defining skills, not about generalising them, because the are u are working with is always totally different from other classes...
Sorry, this is just cheap arguing -not only OM ESO, but in General.
All I am saying, a skill that has so much power should not exist on any class. I am fully aware that wardens have other problems.
I could write a 2 page article to go into great detail, but no thanks, short answer has to be enough. And sometimes people do not agree with each other, I have no problems with your reasoning as well, I do understand it. In the end its up to Wrobel to balance the class, all we can do is provide feedback.
Then what do you think about Incap? Cloak? Fossilize? Talons? Streak? Daedric mines? Breath of Life (even though it got a reduction in patch notes)? Get outta here with that. You cant say any of those skills are not equally as strong as deep fissure/sub assault. Take the stun off deep fissure, but some other class skill NEEDS a stun or you aren't killing anyone in pvp. I agree with you about Wrobel, that dude has no idea what he is doing balance wise because he has a bias to certain classes. Deep fissure is not too powerful. You can put up an argument about sub assault paired with dizzying swing, but magicka warden is almost laughable at this point.5 -
Mihael✭✭✭✭yeah if the skill was on another class it would be op but on a warden its our main for of damage, you have to look at the skill as a whole with the class not just by it self0
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Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
More powerful than destro ult and negate?
It's single target lol not even more powerful than soul assault 1st and 3rd were duels, 2nd was in Cyro. And in PvE, it executes for up to 80-90k damage per ulti.
Bear is actually really powerful, and I think it would be best if it stayed a double-barred ability. However, ZOS still needs to make improvements, but more towards the synergy between the Warden and the Guardian: pet shields, heals, etc... Things that would make the Bear more useable and give it better survivability
Please tell me why the crit in Cyrodiil (where all damage is halved) is 7-10k higher than the crit in a duel.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0 -
Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »
More powerful than destro ult and negate?
It's single target lol not even more powerful than soul assault 1st and 3rd were duels, 2nd was in Cyro. And in PvE, it executes for up to 80-90k damage per ulti.
Bear is actually really powerful, and I think it would be best if it stayed a double-barred ability. However, ZOS still needs to make improvements, but more towards the synergy between the Warden and the Guardian: pet shields, heals, etc... Things that would make the Bear more useable and give it better survivability
Please tell me why the crit in Cyrodiil (where all damage is halved) is 7-10k higher than the crit in a duel.
Group buffs and Cyro BonusesEdited by Tryxus on April 19, 2018 2:55PM"Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »
More powerful than destro ult and negate?
It's single target lol not even more powerful than soul assault 1st and 3rd were duels, 2nd was in Cyro. And in PvE, it executes for up to 80-90k damage per ulti.
Bear is actually really powerful, and I think it would be best if it stayed a double-barred ability. However, ZOS still needs to make improvements, but more towards the synergy between the Warden and the Guardian: pet shields, heals, etc... Things that would make the Bear more useable and give it better survivability
Please tell me why the crit in Cyrodiil (where all damage is halved) is 7-10k higher than the crit in a duel.
Damage in duels is also halved. The moment you enter the duel, Battle Spirit is applied to the combatants.
Very likely that his victim in Cyro was a low CP dude with no mitigation.EU | PC | AD2 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seraphayel wrote: »
More powerful than destro ult and negate?
It's single target lol not even more powerful than soul assault 1st and 3rd were duels, 2nd was in Cyro. And in PvE, it executes for up to 80-90k damage per ulti.
Bear is actually really powerful, and I think it would be best if it stayed a double-barred ability. However, ZOS still needs to make improvements, but more towards the synergy between the Warden and the Guardian: pet shields, heals, etc... Things that would make the Bear more useable and give it better survivability
Please tell me why the crit in Cyrodiil (where all damage is halved) is 7-10k higher than the crit in a duel.
Duel build might be set up to handle that incoming damage, whereas open world build is more mobility and damage output and defensive. Combination of cyrodiil buffs, different opponents, CP allocation, builds... lots of factors can create the disparity.0 -
xbobx✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Not saying I do know now 100% why such things happening, but I just saw @Alcast reading the pts patchnotes, at the deep fissure nerf, NO JOKE, he is saying " this skill is too strong and the nerf is good".
If those guys are in charge balancing and giving feedback to ZOS - good night. Did this guy every played a mag warden in pvp?
@Waffennacht @Hutch679 @MLGProPlayer we are dead haha
In my opinion, any ability that has high aoe damage, stun, aoe undodgeable dmg, aoe unblockable dmg is too strong yes.
That this is wardens only direct ability to get access to a stun in the class line is a whole other problem.
Cant agree here at all, this is just to simple reasoning. I see such answers quite often from my students though.
Just to give u some idea about what Im speaking and the reasoning behindert it:
U cant take that skill, put it in a box and dont look at the rest, not only warden skills, but any other skills.
We dont have the mobility of sorc. We dont have cloak to reset fights. We dont have an execute. We dont have an cheap instant burst stun ulti.
So, what im saying is, sorry, this is just dumb reasoning. Yes, such a skill u describing is strong, but, is it too strong on a class with the wardens kit? Thats totally different. Furthermore, saying that "no stun is a other problem" - no, exactly not. U build a class about defining skills, not about generalising them, because the are u are working with is always totally different from other classes...
Sorry, this is just cheap arguing -not only OM ESO, but in General.
wardens have an execute, would people please stop saying that. It may not be the one you want, but its there.
It's an Ultimate that you can activate maybe 4 times a minute and doesn't do much more damage than Impale or Wrath. That's a great execute.
its still an execute and as i said, its just not the one you want0 -
dodgehopper_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »My suspicion: Warden is going to be Templar 2.0. Brace yourselves folks; it is gonna be painful.
Magicka templar has been the best healer since launch. They were also the best DPS class for a long time. Even in their current state, they're still better than magicka warden.
I'm also still telling you to brace yourself. I never said I liked what they're doing I'm just suggesting that the same flavor extraction that hit Templar is going to hit Warden. I'd like to add that by giving those DPS skills to Templar they also took away almost all the CC the class had, and much of what made it a good tank. It lost a lot for the laser beam and the laser beam isn't all that hot any more.
I'm against the changes to Fissure; but I'm feeling as though I'm out of words. Warden is an interesting tank and has the toolkit for it. I'm very curious to see what is going to happen going forward. The adjustment of Fissure tells me that the balance of the Class is going to be as ridiculous as what they've done to Templar. I'm concerned Warden is going to be just as clunky. I'm informed of this because in many ways Warden = Templar. They are both and always have been the 'Tanky/Support' classes. Maybe you guys have more faith than I. I'll just keep playing and hope that I'm pleasantly surprised.US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
<And plenty more>1 -
Torbschka✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Not saying I do know now 100% why such things happening, but I just saw @Alcast reading the pts patchnotes, at the deep fissure nerf, NO JOKE, he is saying " this skill is too strong and the nerf is good".
If those guys are in charge balancing and giving feedback to ZOS - good night. Did this guy every played a mag warden in pvp?
@Waffennacht @Hutch679 @MLGProPlayer we are dead haha
In my opinion, any ability that has high aoe damage, stun, aoe undodgeable dmg, aoe unblockable dmg is too strong yes.
That this is wardens only direct ability to get access to a stun in the class line is a whole other problem.
Cant agree here at all, this is just to simple reasoning. I see such answers quite often from my students though.
Just to give u some idea about what Im speaking and the reasoning behindert it:
U cant take that skill, put it in a box and dont look at the rest, not only warden skills, but any other skills.
We dont have the mobility of sorc. We dont have cloak to reset fights. We dont have an execute. We dont have an cheap instant burst stun ulti.
So, what im saying is, sorry, this is just dumb reasoning. Yes, such a skill u describing is strong, but, is it too strong on a class with the wardens kit? Thats totally different. Furthermore, saying that "no stun is a other problem" - no, exactly not. U build a class about defining skills, not about generalising them, because the are u are working with is always totally different from other classes...
Sorry, this is just cheap arguing -not only OM ESO, but in General.
wardens have an execute, would people please stop saying that. It may not be the one you want, but its there.
It's an Ultimate that you can activate maybe 4 times a minute and doesn't do much more damage than Impale or Wrath. That's a great execute.
its still an execute and as i said, its just not the one you want
OK, try 1vX fighting 5 people with bear slotted, great execute, gl.6 -
mb10✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Not saying I do know now 100% why such things happening, but I just saw @Alcast reading the pts patchnotes, at the deep fissure nerf, NO JOKE, he is saying " this skill is too strong and the nerf is good".
If those guys are in charge balancing and giving feedback to ZOS - good night. Did this guy every played a mag warden in pvp?
@Waffennacht @Hutch679 @MLGProPlayer we are dead haha
In my opinion, any ability that has high aoe damage, stun, aoe undodgeable dmg, aoe unblockable dmg is too strong yes.
That this is wardens only direct ability to get access to a stun in the class line is a whole other problem.
Cant agree here at all, this is just to simple reasoning. I see such answers quite often from my students though.
Just to give u some idea about what Im speaking and the reasoning behindert it:
U cant take that skill, put it in a box and dont look at the rest, not only warden skills, but any other skills.
We dont have the mobility of sorc. We dont have cloak to reset fights. We dont have an execute. We dont have an cheap instant burst stun ulti.
So, what im saying is, sorry, this is just dumb reasoning. Yes, such a skill u describing is strong, but, is it too strong on a class with the wardens kit? Thats totally different. Furthermore, saying that "no stun is a other problem" - no, exactly not. U build a class about defining skills, not about generalising them, because the are u are working with is always totally different from other classes...
Sorry, this is just cheap arguing -not only OM ESO, but in General.
wardens have an execute, would people please stop saying that. It may not be the one you want, but its there.
It's an Ultimate that you can activate maybe 4 times a minute and doesn't do much more damage than Impale or Wrath. That's a great execute.
4 times a minute is a lie lol
so basically you can regen 75 ult every 15 seconds?
(referring to pvp)Edited by mb10 on April 19, 2018 8:21PM0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Not saying I do know now 100% why such things happening, but I just saw @Alcast reading the pts patchnotes, at the deep fissure nerf, NO JOKE, he is saying " this skill is too strong and the nerf is good".
If those guys are in charge balancing and giving feedback to ZOS - good night. Did this guy every played a mag warden in pvp?
@Waffennacht @Hutch679 @MLGProPlayer we are dead haha
In my opinion, any ability that has high aoe damage, stun, aoe undodgeable dmg, aoe unblockable dmg is too strong yes.
That this is wardens only direct ability to get access to a stun in the class line is a whole other problem.
Cant agree here at all, this is just to simple reasoning. I see such answers quite often from my students though.
Just to give u some idea about what Im speaking and the reasoning behindert it:
U cant take that skill, put it in a box and dont look at the rest, not only warden skills, but any other skills.
We dont have the mobility of sorc. We dont have cloak to reset fights. We dont have an execute. We dont have an cheap instant burst stun ulti.
So, what im saying is, sorry, this is just dumb reasoning. Yes, such a skill u describing is strong, but, is it too strong on a class with the wardens kit? Thats totally different. Furthermore, saying that "no stun is a other problem" - no, exactly not. U build a class about defining skills, not about generalising them, because the are u are working with is always totally different from other classes...
Sorry, this is just cheap arguing -not only OM ESO, but in General.
wardens have an execute, would people please stop saying that. It may not be the one you want, but its there.
It's an Ultimate that you can activate maybe 4 times a minute and doesn't do much more damage than Impale or Wrath. That's a great execute.
4 times a minute is a lie lol
so basically you can regen 75 ult every 15 seconds?
(referring to pvp)
Heal, block, la/ha, is like 4.5 ult a sec, NB potion passive is approx 30 ult per min or .5 per sec? I think that alone is 75 ult every 15 sec.
Guess what else is totally insane on PTS?
Potion cool down enchantment + new jewelry trait + NB ult gain potion passive0 -
ZOS_MikaadminWe have recently removed some unnecessary bashing comments. Disagreeing is perfectly fine, but insults are inappropriate. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Thank you for your understanding.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site2 -
Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »
Cuz the bear can hit up to >90k damage in PvE, and in PvP it has the potential to one shot. I consider it a "Incap on steroids" so I think that in its current state, the bear is just fine (sacrifice a 2nd ulti slot in exchange to dish out large amounts of damage).
Now however, its usability needs to be improved. Its AI needs to be tweaked, it needs an update to guarantee it'll hit its target (CC break, instant leap/teleport to target, etc,...) and the Warden has to receive a few skills to give the bear better survivability (pet shields, heals, protection buffs,...).Edited by Tryxus on April 19, 2018 10:24PM"Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU1 -
mb10✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Not saying I do know now 100% why such things happening, but I just saw @Alcast reading the pts patchnotes, at the deep fissure nerf, NO JOKE, he is saying " this skill is too strong and the nerf is good".
If those guys are in charge balancing and giving feedback to ZOS - good night. Did this guy every played a mag warden in pvp?
@Waffennacht @Hutch679 @MLGProPlayer we are dead haha
In my opinion, any ability that has high aoe damage, stun, aoe undodgeable dmg, aoe unblockable dmg is too strong yes.
That this is wardens only direct ability to get access to a stun in the class line is a whole other problem.
Cant agree here at all, this is just to simple reasoning. I see such answers quite often from my students though.
Just to give u some idea about what Im speaking and the reasoning behindert it:
U cant take that skill, put it in a box and dont look at the rest, not only warden skills, but any other skills.
We dont have the mobility of sorc. We dont have cloak to reset fights. We dont have an execute. We dont have an cheap instant burst stun ulti.
So, what im saying is, sorry, this is just dumb reasoning. Yes, such a skill u describing is strong, but, is it too strong on a class with the wardens kit? Thats totally different. Furthermore, saying that "no stun is a other problem" - no, exactly not. U build a class about defining skills, not about generalising them, because the are u are working with is always totally different from other classes...
Sorry, this is just cheap arguing -not only OM ESO, but in General.
wardens have an execute, would people please stop saying that. It may not be the one you want, but its there.
It's an Ultimate that you can activate maybe 4 times a minute and doesn't do much more damage than Impale or Wrath. That's a great execute.
4 times a minute is a lie lol
so basically you can regen 75 ult every 15 seconds?
(referring to pvp)
Heal, block, la/ha, is like 4.5 ult a sec, NB potion passive is approx 30 ult per min or .5 per sec? I think that alone is 75 ult every 15 sec.
Guess what else is totally insane on PTS?
Potion cool down enchantment + new jewelry trait + NB ult gain potion passive
Lol my friend, this is a warden thread. I have no idea why youre speaking about NB potion passive...0
