Maintenance for the week of September 8:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – September 8
• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – September 8
• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
[Major Oversight] Summerset Tutorial Missable Skillpoint Feedback
-
Raraaku✭✭✭✭If not the tutorial, perhaps the opening quest to Summerset for existing players? I only did Galerion's quest once but I don't think that the quest rewarded players with a skillpoint.Back from a much needed break. || I like having too many projects and working on them all at once.
Tank Enthusiast || CP: 445 || Stormproof
TanksKarsaak gro-Ursa: DC || Orc || Stamina Dragonknight || Tank || Level: CP 445
Sir Leopold Stotch: DC || Breton || Magicka Templar || Tank || Level: 445
Protects-Squishy-Ones: EP || Argonian || Magicka Sorcerer || Tank/CC || Level: CP 445
Björn Shadow-Walker: EP || Nord || Stamina Nightblade || Tank || Level: 15
Tiberius Valerion: AD || Imperial || Stamina Warden || Tank || Level: 15
Damage DealersMorrigan Ravyn-Cloak: AD || Altmer || Magicka Nightblade || DPS || Level: CP 445
Ra'Zahkara: AD || Khajiit || Stamina Dragonknight || DPS || Level: CP 445
Ezra al-Khazir: DC || Redguard || Stamina Templar || DPS || Level: 40
Erryndril Telvaux: EP || Dunmer || Magicka Dragonknight || DPS || Level: 25
Uzara gra-Khalari: DC || Orc || Stamina Nightblade || DPS [2H/DW] || Level: 15
Solomon Motierre: DC || Breton || Magicka Sorcerer || DPS || Level: 20
Ragnar the Wulf: EP || Nord || Stamina Warden || DPS || Level: 30
Ra'Rahku: AD || Khajiit || Stamina Nightblade || DPS [Bow/Bow] || Level: 15
HealersSees-through-Hist: EP || Argonian || Magicka Warden || Healer/CC || CP 445
Daedalus the Artificer: AD || Altmer || Magicka Templar || Healer || Level: 150 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭mike_skleinub17_ESO wrote: »If this is a serious problem, and it's a big if in my view, then the answer is that whichever tutorial a character first completes should give a skill point, and no other subsequent tutorial should do so. It's absurd to propose that veteran characters should run around doing duplicate tutorials just because they're missing one skill point. It shouldn't be about a Morrowind character getting a skill point in Vvardenfell and then another one in Coldharbour, while a pre-Morrowind character only had one in Coldharbour, it should be about the Morrowind character only getting one in Vvardenfell and not getting another one in Coldharbour. Similar considerations will apply in respect of Summerset.
Unfortunately, resolving things that way may satisfy the completionists who currently feel hard done by but will deprive everyone else of an extra skill point!
so if im reading this right...your saying that in order for players to get the skillpoint for a new chapter they should start a new character? for every chapter? if that's the case then THAT IS ABSURD. Almost ridiculously so.
And a new MW character CAN get both MW and Cold Harbor. or are you proposing that they strip those characters of that skill point? Taking it further, a new alt who skips the tutorial after creation still starts with 3 skill points. And does the Chapter tutorial AND does the "talk to the benefactor" quest taking them back to Cold Harbor for..another skill point.
I know the above is correct because I did it on my Warden. So that's...two skill points I should be stripped of? The number of skill points gained or lost obviously isn't the actual issue.
What I'm saying is two things - first, I remain to be convinced that the odd extra or missing skill point out of several hundred is actually a serious issue.
Second, I'm saying that the situation is caused by post-Morrowind characters being able to complete more than one tutorial and get a skill point for each one they do, whereas pre-Morrowind characters only got to complete the original tutorial and got a skill point for doing so but cannot do the Morrowind (and now Summerset) tutorial and therefore miss out on the skill point from that. I suggested two answers, one of which was to have it so that all characters only got a skill point from their first tutorial, meaning in effect that a character started on Vvardenfell or Summerset would get the skill point from that but not additionally for doing Coldharbour although they would still have the option of doing that content. Completionists might think that fair, as everyone would have the same potential skill points, while others may argue that they're losing out from such a change.
The other answer was to roll a new character if you wanted to do the content of the new tutorial. I'm not saying you have to do that, just that the option is there for those who don't want to miss the content.
Clearly some players are concerned over the principle of this, while as you say the number of skill points gained or lost obviously isn't the actual issue. Personally, I'm not fussed either way. I'm fine with it as it is, but if people complain enough about missing an extra skill point or two with the result that those points are no longer offered then that wouldn't bother me either. If it's resolved by all pre-Morrowind characters being given an extra skill point or two then that would be fine too, indeed I wouldn't even notice them.Edited by Tandor on April 18, 2018 11:33AM1 -
TheCyberDruid✭✭✭✭✭strangeradnd wrote: »If I don't want to make a new character I don't deserve the skill point. I sure don't need it, I know.....".but it isn't fair", yes it is, all you have to do is ditch a toon and start another not doing so is a choice. It isn't that hard to level up.
Yeah, Master Angler and the monster trophies are done in a couple of hours too...2 -
DieAlteHexe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheCyberDruid wrote: »strangeradnd wrote: »If I don't want to make a new character I don't deserve the skill point. I sure don't need it, I know.....".but it isn't fair", yes it is, all you have to do is ditch a toon and start another not doing so is a choice. It isn't that hard to level up.
Yeah, Master Angler and the monster trophies are done in a couple of hours too...
*semi-hysterical laughter*
Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake2 -
Aliyavana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheCyberDruid wrote: »strangeradnd wrote: »If I don't want to make a new character I don't deserve the skill point. I sure don't need it, I know.....".but it isn't fair", yes it is, all you have to do is ditch a toon and start another not doing so is a choice. It isn't that hard to level up.
Yeah, Master Angler and the monster trophies are done in a couple of hours too...
Yep, not giving up my titles1 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I can't believe it's been a year and nothing has been done about this.
I'm can't believe that people think something would actually be done about this.
(and no, I'm not suggesting deleting a character and restarting it for a single skill point. To me, that seems rather extreme. A "kill a fly with a nuke" solution - an action drastically larger than the incredibly minor thing it 'fixes'.)0 -
Enodoc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
That's actually technically not true. They did confirm last year that it was unintended, and that you were only supposed to get one Skill Point (so if you got this one, you wouldn't get the Wailing Prison one). But also, since it launched like this, it would be too difficult to fix. My personal opinion, since it is no longer possible to implement the intended design, is to make all the tutorials playable by everyone, which would be achieved by pushing you through them when you first travel to the new zone.witchdoctor wrote: »
Maybe they did hear you, but they just disagree with you.... is still bugged a year later
Sorry if that's a spoon in the Matrix moment, but, just because you think its 'bugged,' it may actually be WAI.
Maybe ZOS considers the tutorial to be for new players.
Maybe ZOS thinks to throw new players a bone with an extra skill point.
Maybe ZOS doesn't want to add extra complexity with a mechanism to check account creation date vs Summerset release date, so, it just applies to characters made on the day or after.
With all the water you've carried about this issue, ZOS has heard you. SInce they 'did it again,' it stands to reason they don't agree with you.UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp4 -
Aliyavana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
That's actually technically not true. They did confirm last year that it was unintended, and that you were only supposed to get one Skill Point (so if you got this one, you wouldn't get the Wailing Prison one). But also, since it launched like this, it would be too difficult to fix. My personal opinion, since it is no longer possible to implement the intended design, is to make all the tutorials playable by everyone, which would be achieved by pushing you through them when you first travel to the new zone.witchdoctor wrote: »
Maybe they did hear you, but they just disagree with you.... is still bugged a year later
Sorry if that's a spoon in the Matrix moment, but, just because you think its 'bugged,' it may actually be WAI.
Maybe ZOS considers the tutorial to be for new players.
Maybe ZOS thinks to throw new players a bone with an extra skill point.
Maybe ZOS doesn't want to add extra complexity with a mechanism to check account creation date vs Summerset release date, so, it just applies to characters made on the day or after.
With all the water you've carried about this issue, ZOS has heard you. SInce they 'did it again,' it stands to reason they don't agree with you.
There's no current quest that leads you to summerset, I hope the tutorial is edited as the intro because it flows better into the next quest2 -
N00BxV1✭✭✭✭✭
✭strangeradnd wrote: »If I don't want to make a new character I don't deserve the skill point. I sure don't need it, I know.....".but it isn't fair", yes it is, all you have to do is ditch a toon and start another not doing so is a choice. It isn't that hard to level up.
What's not "fair" is paying for content that my main character/quester is not allowed to do (morrowind/summerset intros). No other DLC locks you out of quests like this, you start them by going into collections and accepting a quest that then begins your journey and leads you to the intro. Hell, even the main quest line leads you to its intro...so why can't the new ones do the same thing.
We shouldn't be forced to create a new character with each DLC just to be able to complete some of the content and get the rewards. There is no way in hell I will ever delete my main character (created at launch) because it has done every single quest and side quest in the entire game, learned tons of motifs/recipes/etc, earned tons of titles, and all that other good ***. Pretty much done it all except for some PVP stuff that I'll probably never get to just because I loathe PVP in this game.
I just deleted all other characters and created 13 new characters sometime around November, and all of them are either level 50 already or are on their way there. So I know good and well that "it isn't that hard to level up", but does take a hell of a lot of time to do other things that are needed to actually build a character and even more time to complete them.
When I play games I like to try and complete everything on one character so I can feel the accomplishment, but from no fault of my own I'm being prevented from doing things or unable to complete them. So just let me do the damn intro quests on my existing character(s), is that too much to ask?!3 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭seems more simple to just grant the missing skill point upon gaining the first in each chapter......
Am I making it too simple?-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Faylis✭✭✭
That's actually technically not true. They did confirm last year that it was unintended, and that you were only supposed to get one Skill Point (so if you got this one, you wouldn't get the Wailing Prison one). But also, since it launched like this, it would be too difficult to fix. My personal opinion, since it is no longer possible to implement the intended design, is to make all the tutorials playable by everyone, which would be achieved by pushing you through them when you first travel to the new zone.witchdoctor wrote: »
Maybe they did hear you, but they just disagree with you.... is still bugged a year later
Sorry if that's a spoon in the Matrix moment, but, just because you think its 'bugged,' it may actually be WAI.
Maybe ZOS considers the tutorial to be for new players.
Maybe ZOS thinks to throw new players a bone with an extra skill point.
Maybe ZOS doesn't want to add extra complexity with a mechanism to check account creation date vs Summerset release date, so, it just applies to characters made on the day or after.
With all the water you've carried about this issue, ZOS has heard you. SInce they 'did it again,' it stands to reason they don't agree with you.
There's no current quest that leads you to summerset, I hope the tutorial is edited as the intro because it flows better into the next quest
I thought the mages guild quest started by the free item in the crown store was to lead you into Summerset.
1 -
Aliyavana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
That's actually technically not true. They did confirm last year that it was unintended, and that you were only supposed to get one Skill Point (so if you got this one, you wouldn't get the Wailing Prison one). But also, since it launched like this, it would be too difficult to fix. My personal opinion, since it is no longer possible to implement the intended design, is to make all the tutorials playable by everyone, which would be achieved by pushing you through them when you first travel to the new zone.witchdoctor wrote: »
Maybe they did hear you, but they just disagree with you.... is still bugged a year later
Sorry if that's a spoon in the Matrix moment, but, just because you think its 'bugged,' it may actually be WAI.
Maybe ZOS considers the tutorial to be for new players.
Maybe ZOS thinks to throw new players a bone with an extra skill point.
Maybe ZOS doesn't want to add extra complexity with a mechanism to check account creation date vs Summerset release date, so, it just applies to characters made on the day or after.
With all the water you've carried about this issue, ZOS has heard you. SInce they 'did it again,' it stands to reason they don't agree with you.
There's no current quest that leads you to summerset, I hope the tutorial is edited as the intro because it flows better into the next quest
I thought the mages guild quest started by the free item in the crown store was to lead you into Summerset.
Morrowind and cwc have pre release quests that hint what the next chapter is but don't take you directly to them. Morrowind if I recall you just go there and in cwc the first quest introduces you to cwc with divayth fyr0 -
Faylis✭✭✭
That's actually technically not true. They did confirm last year that it was unintended, and that you were only supposed to get one Skill Point (so if you got this one, you wouldn't get the Wailing Prison one). But also, since it launched like this, it would be too difficult to fix. My personal opinion, since it is no longer possible to implement the intended design, is to make all the tutorials playable by everyone, which would be achieved by pushing you through them when you first travel to the new zone.witchdoctor wrote: »
Maybe they did hear you, but they just disagree with you.... is still bugged a year later
Sorry if that's a spoon in the Matrix moment, but, just because you think its 'bugged,' it may actually be WAI.
Maybe ZOS considers the tutorial to be for new players.
Maybe ZOS thinks to throw new players a bone with an extra skill point.
Maybe ZOS doesn't want to add extra complexity with a mechanism to check account creation date vs Summerset release date, so, it just applies to characters made on the day or after.
With all the water you've carried about this issue, ZOS has heard you. SInce they 'did it again,' it stands to reason they don't agree with you.
There's no current quest that leads you to summerset, I hope the tutorial is edited as the intro because it flows better into the next quest
I thought the mages guild quest started by the free item in the crown store was to lead you into Summerset.
Morrowind and cwc have pre release quests that hint what the next chapter is but don't take you directly to them. Morrowind if I recall you just go there and in cwc the first quest introduces you to cwc with divayth fyr
I remember CWC differently then, I was taken to and shown the secret entrance to cwc.. or was I really drunk that night...?
Where the hell did I go ? Maybe I should talk to someone.0 -
N00BxV1✭✭✭✭✭
✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »seems more simple to just grant the missing skill point upon gaining the first in each chapter......
Am I making it too simple?
But it isn't just the skill point, that's only half of the gripe... We're also unable to do the intro quests for the new contents (that we've paid for) on our existing characters. In Morrowind my existing characters were unable to do the Broken Bonds quest, and now it sounds like there will also be a quest in Summerset that my existing characters can't do.0 -
GatheredMyst✭✭✭Yikes.
When you first started the game? Back in the day? With your new character? You got access to a single skill point as part of completing the tutorial, or skipping it.
As... this image clearly represents, in the OP:
Now? New players are getting access to that same skillpoint.
It's not denying you access to anything. It's just keeping the playfield even for everyone with a new character that everyone else has gotten
0 -
N00BxV1✭✭✭✭✭
✭GatheredMyst wrote: »Yikes.
When you first started the game? Back in the day? With your new character? You got access to a single skill point as part of completing the tutorial, or skipping it.
As... this image clearly represents, in the OP:
...
Now? New players are getting access to that same skillpoint.
It's not denying you access to anything. It's just keeping the playfield even for everyone with a new character that everyone else has gotten
Someone is missing the fact that newly created characters after a Chapter have access to getting a skill point from the main quest's intro/tutorial AND the new Chapter's intro/tutorial (read: 2 skill points), but old/existing characters created before morrowind can ONLY get one skill point from the main quest's intro/tutorial (read: 1 skill point).Edited by N00BxV1 on April 18, 2018 6:22PM4 -
Aliyavana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GatheredMyst wrote: »Yikes.
When you first started the game? Back in the day? With your new character? You got access to a single skill point as part of completing the tutorial, or skipping it.
As... this image clearly represents, in the OP:
Now? New players are getting access to that same skillpoint.
It's not denying you access to anything. It's just keeping the playfield even for everyone with a new character that everyone else has gotten
It's not an even playing field when summerset characters can double dip with both summerset and base game tutorial skillpoints and old characters can't do the same. Did you read the op?Edited by Aliyavana on April 18, 2018 6:14PM4 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AdamBourke wrote: »"But op! there is hundreds of skillpoints in the game! Why are you making a big deal about 1?" I am now making a big deal out of two, if every chapter comes with a new tutorial that will leave all characters without a extra skillpoint...So... With every chapter released my main character will lack more and more skill points...DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »This is exactly my point. One or two now isn't a big deal, however if this is to be the future of chapters and ESO, older players will be punished more and more over the years. Sure over 10 years it's only 10 extra skill points, but thats 10 more to go toward passives or anything I want really.
To those implying that this discrepancy will build up over time - I believe that's inaccurate. These won't stack. It's only coldharbour that people who do the chapter tutorials get to relive, I believe? So it's only 1 skillpoint that any chapter-character will ever have, the one from their chapter, and the one from Wailing Prison.
The correct solution of course is to make all tutorials available to all players (and make which one you want to do first as a new character be an option when starting the game!)
Exactly this. It's one skill point guys. People who did morrowind first will also not be able to get the Summerset one or any future one.
Should everyone get the extra one? Yes. Will we all be behind 10 points in 10 years? No.0 -
Juju_beans✭✭✭✭✭
✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »seems more simple to just grant the missing skill point upon gaining the first in each chapter......
Am I making it too simple?
But it isn't just the skill point, that's only half of the gripe... We're also unable to do the intro quests for the new contents (that we've paid for) on our existing characters. In Morrowind my existing characters were unable to do the Broken Bonds quest, and now it sounds like there will also be a quest in Summerset that my existing characters can't do.
What I've done is create a new toon just to experience the tutorial and then delete it.
Plan to to the same with summerset.
This is not unique to ESO though..same with other games.
Wow did this too with their DK class and Demon Hunter class.
0 -
N00BxV1✭✭✭✭✭
✭Juju_beans wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »seems more simple to just grant the missing skill point upon gaining the first in each chapter......
Am I making it too simple?
But it isn't just the skill point, that's only half of the gripe... We're also unable to do the intro quests for the new contents (that we've paid for) on our existing characters. In Morrowind my existing characters were unable to do the Broken Bonds quest, and now it sounds like there will also be a quest in Summerset that my existing characters can't do.
What I've done is create a new toon just to experience the tutorial and then delete it.
Plan to to the same with summerset.
This is not unique to ESO though..same with other games.
Wow did this too with their DK class and Demon Hunter class.
When I came back to this game I decided that I wanted to complete everything on at least ONE character, because it was possible to do this before Morrowind. My main character is "the quester" and is who I experience all this content with. I don't want to have to do 'Quest A' on one character, 'Quest B' on another character, and then 'Quest C' on yet another character. I want to do Quests A, B and C all on ONE character.
Also, are they gonna give me a free character slot so I can do what you're proposing? I'm not gonna delete any of my current characters that I've already spent time/resources leveling, training mounts, upgrading bag space, etc just so I can do a quest that for some reason am being locked out of on my existing characters.
The solution is to just let existing characters do these intro quests on all DLC that comes out regardless of character creation date.0 -
Aliyavana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just force players to do the tutorial, it takes only 4 minutes if you sprint and is a good introduction to summersetEdited by Aliyavana on April 21, 2018 9:40PM0 -
Enslaved✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭witchdoctor wrote: »... is still bugged a year later
Maybe they did hear you, but they just disagree with you.
Sorry if that's a spoon in the Matrix moment, but, just because you think its 'bugged,' it may actually be WAI.
Maybe ZOS considers the tutorial to be for new players.
Maybe ZOS thinks to throw new players a bone with an extra skill point.
Maybe ZOS doesn't want to add extra complexity with a mechanism to check account creation date vs Summerset release date, so, it just applies to characters made on the day or after.
With all the water you've carried about this issue, ZOS has heard you. SInce they 'did it again,' it stands to reason they don't agree with you.
if this is how you reason, I am afraid for anyone that depend on you irl.1 -
The_Protagonist✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have a question, do the new characters that do Summerset tutorial are also able to do the Morrowind Tutorial?
If the answer is yes, then us old veterans are missing 2 skill points.
If the answer is no, then us old veterans are missing 1 skill point.0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I still think this isn’t an issue. There are so many skill points in the game that missing one is not noticeable.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
Enodoc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
The issue is gameplay consistency, not the actual numerical value of the skill point.I still think this isn’t an issue. There are so many skill points in the game that missing one is not noticeable.UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp7
This discussion has been closed.