PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Dragonknight Balance

Toc de Malsvi · April 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

ZOS want's DK's to be DoT based and ZOS wants more balance so I say: MOAR DOTS!!!

Change Stone Fist to a ranged single target dot. Make Obsidian Shard something to do with LAVA and fire damage with some sort of healing return, and make Stone Giant a bleed effect.

It's ranged which improves DK range and options during trials when you cannot stand on target. It is additional DoTs, and the bleed effect serves stam DK well for PVP, while the ranged Dot/Hot serves low mobility mag DK's well.

I don't know how many times I have to explain over and over again why earthen hearth tree can not have a stamina spammable or dot or similar, because of the passives..

A stamina ability that returns 990 stamina and minor brutality on casting. not a bright idea.

I know I know getting the passive proc once every 10 seconds is far too often than the 6 second cool down allows for. <<this bit is sarcasm if you cannot tell.

For a long time Relentless Focus scaled with physical damage stats but cost magicka. There is no reason we could not have our own version. It's not a spammable its a DoT. No one said it had to cost stamina, it could do bleed damage scale with physical stats but cost magicka. Being spammed wouldn't be a concern because you would run out of magicka, beyond the point that it would be a DOT. That is damage over time.

Toc de Malsvi · April 2018

Minor Brutality for the group on cast.. Oh NOES!!!!

I mean that might put us up there with Sorc's Minor Prophecy from Crystal Shard, Mines, Dark Exchange or any of the morphs they use all the time.

Or a NB Minor Savagery that they get from just Crits alone....

Or Templars Minor Sorcery from their tree's devoted ENTIRELY to damage.

Or Wardens Minor Toughness for just... Healing anyone.

Certainly Stam DK's cannot must not have Minor Brutality from anything they might use more often than once a minute.

Ragnarock41 · April 2018

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

ZOS want's DK's to be DoT based and ZOS wants more balance so I say: MOAR DOTS!!!

Change Stone Fist to a ranged single target dot. Make Obsidian Shard something to do with LAVA and fire damage with some sort of healing return, and make Stone Giant a bleed effect.

It's ranged which improves DK range and options during trials when you cannot stand on target. It is additional DoTs, and the bleed effect serves stam DK well for PVP, while the ranged Dot/Hot serves low mobility mag DK's well.

I don't know how many times I have to explain over and over again why earthen hearth tree can not have a stamina spammable or dot or similar, because of the passives..

A stamina ability that returns 990 stamina and minor brutality on casting. not a bright idea.

I know I know getting the passive proc once every 10 seconds is far too often than the 6 second cool down allows for. <<this bit is sarcasm if you cannot tell.

For a long time Relentless Focus scaled with physical damage stats but cost magicka. There is no reason we could not have our own version. It's not a spammable its a DoT. No one said it had to cost stamina, it could do bleed damage scale with physical stats but cost magicka. Being spammed wouldn't be a concern because you would run out of magicka, beyond the point that it would be a DOT. That is damage over time.

helping hands passive has no cooldown, and can be spammed forever, if the caster has enough magicka for it.
All being said , yet another dot is literally the last thing stamina Dk needs. You're just suggesting this because you want to play a bow build. Bow skill line already has two poison abilities.

The actual dots stamDK has at the moment are weak. both venom claws and noxious breath are underperforming and I don't see a reason to add a third dot while those two are weaker than any bleed.

Toc de Malsvi · April 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

ZOS want's DK's to be DoT based and ZOS wants more balance so I say: MOAR DOTS!!!

Change Stone Fist to a ranged single target dot. Make Obsidian Shard something to do with LAVA and fire damage with some sort of healing return, and make Stone Giant a bleed effect.

It's ranged which improves DK range and options during trials when you cannot stand on target. It is additional DoTs, and the bleed effect serves stam DK well for PVP, while the ranged Dot/Hot serves low mobility mag DK's well.

I don't know how many times I have to explain over and over again why earthen hearth tree can not have a stamina spammable or dot or similar, because of the passives..

A stamina ability that returns 990 stamina and minor brutality on casting. not a bright idea.

I know I know getting the passive proc once every 10 seconds is far too often than the 6 second cool down allows for. <<this bit is sarcasm if you cannot tell.

For a long time Relentless Focus scaled with physical damage stats but cost magicka. There is no reason we could not have our own version. It's not a spammable its a DoT. No one said it had to cost stamina, it could do bleed damage scale with physical stats but cost magicka. Being spammed wouldn't be a concern because you would run out of magicka, beyond the point that it would be a DOT. That is damage over time.

helping hands passive has no cooldown, and can be spammed forever, if the caster has enough magicka for it.
All being said , yet another dot is literally the last thing stamina Dk needs. You're just suggesting this because you want to play a bow build. Bow skill line already has two poison abilities.

The actual dots stamDK has at the moment are weak. both venom claws and noxious breath are underperforming and I don't see a reason to add a third dot while those two are weaker than any bleed.

That is already the case with helping hands with the current skills. Spamming a DoT has no benefit. I don't know what world you live in that you spam the same DoT.

Stonefist is useless as claimed by so many posters on here. ZOS has stated that the DK is a DOT class incase you weren't listening. DK's lack mobility and having a ranged DOT helps you melee kids infinitely more than it helps me.

I am quite capable of dealing damage from range as it is. I do not fear or have trouble dealing with players trying to keep me at range. I naturally deal with them as they are playing in my world.

The only reason you are so acidic about it is because you cannot see the world outside the box you have created for your own class boundaries.

Rohamad_Ali · April 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

ZOS want's DK's to be DoT based and ZOS wants more balance so I say: MOAR DOTS!!!

Change Stone Fist to a ranged single target dot. Make Obsidian Shard something to do with LAVA and fire damage with some sort of healing return, and make Stone Giant a bleed effect.

It's ranged which improves DK range and options during trials when you cannot stand on target. It is additional DoTs, and the bleed effect serves stam DK well for PVP, while the ranged Dot/Hot serves low mobility mag DK's well.

I don't know how many times I have to explain over and over again why earthen hearth tree can not have a stamina spammable or dot or similar, because of the passives..

A stamina ability that returns 990 stamina and minor brutality on casting. not a bright idea.

I know I know getting the passive proc once every 10 seconds is far too often than the 6 second cool down allows for. <<this bit is sarcasm if you cannot tell.

For a long time Relentless Focus scaled with physical damage stats but cost magicka. There is no reason we could not have our own version. It's not a spammable its a DoT. No one said it had to cost stamina, it could do bleed damage scale with physical stats but cost magicka. Being spammed wouldn't be a concern because you would run out of magicka, beyond the point that it would be a DOT. That is damage over time.

helping hands passive has no cooldown, and can be spammed forever, if the caster has enough magicka for it.
All being said , yet another dot is literally the last thing stamina Dk needs. You're just suggesting this because you want to play a bow build. Bow skill line already has two poison abilities.

The actual dots stamDK has at the moment are weak. both venom claws and noxious breath are underperforming and I don't see a reason to add a third dot while those two are weaker than any bleed.

I agree that venomous claws and noxious breath could use some upward tuning . Especially in regards to their majika counterparts . Would be nice if I could get TC to download to run some combat statistics ...

Kilandros · April 2018

I like the idea of Stone Fist becoming a kind of Relentless Focus for DK. A 20-second buff, when it procs the proc does a melee range AoE damage plus bleed or something. Make it stamina. Magicka morph becomes basically a heal version.

Everybody wins.

MaxwellC · April 2018

Honestly I would rather they get rid of the stone fist ability and just make it into something different that appeals to both Stamina and Magicka DKs. I honestly just feel like this is Déjà vu with the past PTS where players had expressed issues with Stamina DK but as the update came nothing was changed to make it better.

Hopefully we'll get a (in the name of ZOS Rich) "strong outcry" that'll make them wanna really focus on this variant of the DK class.

joaaocaampos · April 2018

New Trial Sets: no Minor Slayer or Minor Aegis?

Aedaryl · April 2018

BohnT wrote: »

@ZOS_Wrobel is there anything planned to make stamdk a viable pvp spec again?
During the last pts you asked us to say what stamdk needs to be viable and we made lots of proposals, ideas for changes and balance discussions and for all of them it mostly comes down to these points:

- a strong instant stamina class spammable
- atleast 2 seconds snare immunity along with the snare removal on reflective plate
- more stamina class skills
- reworking the useless passives: elder Dragon, world in ruins
- worst ulti regen of all classes although DK sustain is build around using ultimates.

Please come to this post and tell us if you plan to change anything about stamdk or if we can simply spare our breath because it doesn't help anyway

Is imbue weapon the strong non weapon spammable you want ?

The damage is high and every 5 times you spam it you have a little burst that come.

BohnT · April 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

@ZOS_Wrobel is there anything planned to make stamdk a viable pvp spec again?
During the last pts you asked us to say what stamdk needs to be viable and we made lots of proposals, ideas for changes and balance discussions and for all of them it mostly comes down to these points:

- a strong instant stamina class spammable
- atleast 2 seconds snare immunity along with the snare removal on reflective plate
- more stamina class skills
- reworking the useless passives: elder Dragon, world in ruins
- worst ulti regen of all classes although DK sustain is build around using ultimates.

Please come to this post and tell us if you plan to change anything about stamdk or if we can simply spare our breath because it doesn't help anyway

Is imbue weapon the strong non weapon spammable you want ?

The damage is high and every 5 times you spam it you have a little burst that come.

Not at all.
I don't think it will make it into the game like it currently is. It's pretty depressing to be forced to buy a skill line to be somewhat viable and the worst thing is with all the lag in game, LA weaving is the first thing that gets impossible making the skill worthless.

I just want an iconic spammable that's directly from the dks skill line

Ragnarock41 · April 2018

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

ZOS want's DK's to be DoT based and ZOS wants more balance so I say: MOAR DOTS!!!

Change Stone Fist to a ranged single target dot. Make Obsidian Shard something to do with LAVA and fire damage with some sort of healing return, and make Stone Giant a bleed effect.

It's ranged which improves DK range and options during trials when you cannot stand on target. It is additional DoTs, and the bleed effect serves stam DK well for PVP, while the ranged Dot/Hot serves low mobility mag DK's well.

I don't know how many times I have to explain over and over again why earthen hearth tree can not have a stamina spammable or dot or similar, because of the passives..

A stamina ability that returns 990 stamina and minor brutality on casting. not a bright idea.

I know I know getting the passive proc once every 10 seconds is far too often than the 6 second cool down allows for. <<this bit is sarcasm if you cannot tell.

For a long time Relentless Focus scaled with physical damage stats but cost magicka. There is no reason we could not have our own version. It's not a spammable its a DoT. No one said it had to cost stamina, it could do bleed damage scale with physical stats but cost magicka. Being spammed wouldn't be a concern because you would run out of magicka, beyond the point that it would be a DOT. That is damage over time.

helping hands passive has no cooldown, and can be spammed forever, if the caster has enough magicka for it.
All being said , yet another dot is literally the last thing stamina Dk needs. You're just suggesting this because you want to play a bow build. Bow skill line already has two poison abilities.

The actual dots stamDK has at the moment are weak. both venom claws and noxious breath are underperforming and I don't see a reason to add a third dot while those two are weaker than any bleed.

I agree that venomous claws and noxious breath could use some upward tuning . Especially in regards to their majika counterparts . Would be nice if I could get TC to download to run some combat statistics ...

The magDk dots also don't do amazing damage, but embers comes with a strong heal , and the engulfing flames is a flat %10 buff to all your flame damage. Both of those dots have insane utility that comes with them.

Compared to that venomous claws does higher damage with each tick but even the last few ticks of v.claws are heavily outperformed by just blood craze. And I can't imagine a situation where I would regret not using noxious breath.

Sometimes I use it to reveal nightblades, but even for that purpose, the narrow cone makes it difficult, and the small range also does not help.

Toc de Malsvi · April 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

ZOS want's DK's to be DoT based and ZOS wants more balance so I say: MOAR DOTS!!!

Change Stone Fist to a ranged single target dot. Make Obsidian Shard something to do with LAVA and fire damage with some sort of healing return, and make Stone Giant a bleed effect.

It's ranged which improves DK range and options during trials when you cannot stand on target. It is additional DoTs, and the bleed effect serves stam DK well for PVP, while the ranged Dot/Hot serves low mobility mag DK's well.

I don't know how many times I have to explain over and over again why earthen hearth tree can not have a stamina spammable or dot or similar, because of the passives..

A stamina ability that returns 990 stamina and minor brutality on casting. not a bright idea.

I know I know getting the passive proc once every 10 seconds is far too often than the 6 second cool down allows for. <<this bit is sarcasm if you cannot tell.

For a long time Relentless Focus scaled with physical damage stats but cost magicka. There is no reason we could not have our own version. It's not a spammable its a DoT. No one said it had to cost stamina, it could do bleed damage scale with physical stats but cost magicka. Being spammed wouldn't be a concern because you would run out of magicka, beyond the point that it would be a DOT. That is damage over time.

helping hands passive has no cooldown, and can be spammed forever, if the caster has enough magicka for it.
All being said , yet another dot is literally the last thing stamina Dk needs. You're just suggesting this because you want to play a bow build. Bow skill line already has two poison abilities.

The actual dots stamDK has at the moment are weak. both venom claws and noxious breath are underperforming and I don't see a reason to add a third dot while those two are weaker than any bleed.

I agree that venomous claws and noxious breath could use some upward tuning . Especially in regards to their majika counterparts . Would be nice if I could get TC to download to run some combat statistics ...

The magDk dots also don't do amazing damage, but embers comes with a strong heal , and the engulfing flames is a flat %10 buff to all your flame damage. Both of those dots have insane utility that comes with them.

Compared to that venomous claws does higher damage with each tick but even the last few ticks of v.claws are heavily outperformed by just blood craze. And I can't imagine a situation where I would regret not using noxious breath.

Sometimes I use it to reveal nightblades, but even for that purpose, the narrow cone makes it difficult, and the small range also does not help.

They really need to open up the frontal cone on Noxious and let it have like a 120 degree or more range.

Anti_Virus · April 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

@ZOS_Wrobel is there anything planned to make stamdk a viable pvp spec again?
During the last pts you asked us to say what stamdk needs to be viable and we made lots of proposals, ideas for changes and balance discussions and for all of them it mostly comes down to these points:

- a strong instant stamina class spammable
- atleast 2 seconds snare immunity along with the snare removal on reflective plate
- more stamina class skills
- reworking the useless passives: elder Dragon, world in ruins
- worst ulti regen of all classes although DK sustain is build around using ultimates.

Please come to this post and tell us if you plan to change anything about stamdk or if we can simply spare our breath because it doesn't help anyway

Is imbue weapon the strong non weapon spammable you want ?

The damage is high and every 5 times you spam it you have a little burst that come.

NBs, Templars and Wardens can make better use of the skill.

Plus it isn't practical to use as a spammable.

Anethum · April 2018

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Dragonknight combat balance and ability changes. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance.

Staminadk need or own burst staminaheal or snare immunity or both at once.
1. Snare immunity for some period for using Reflective plate. Stamdk forced to play defencive by no own spam skill or timed (like PoL or Subterrain assult skills). Here nothing to create nice burst combo.
2. Heal - Coagulating Blood morf to change in a way like Domihaus set's second bonus works, if your character's weapon damage and max stamina are higher than spell damage and max mana, then it cost stamina and scale from weapon damage and max stamina. This skill is bad even on manadks to be honest because of high cost and low effectiveness, but it's at least something.
3. Same scaling for Flames of Oblivion. Poison damage if max stamina higher. Name for new skill to be relevant for both types of damage idk - Plazm (or Tears) of Oblivion. It can be not good but at least something for burst. Fire one is crap and not empowered with cp and...
4. Add some debuff (for example little harm to ultimategeneration, or copy/steal buff from enemy to yourself) on enemy after landing Takeflight (it should differ from Downbreaker not only by effective jumping to the clouds animation).
5. Twice+ more stamina from Helping hands passive (it's very easy way to adjust stamdk sustain in pvp and for tanking in pve)
6. To change 1 or 2 uselless now racial passives to something like reducing effect of poisons and fire on yourself. Similar to Warden's -15% to effectiveness to snares on them... This class has no absolutly anything to counter dots and debuffs. Cost poisons with in general terrible resourse management make stamdk no viable at all. Worst mobility. Forced to just eat the whole damage and everything without choice. And it will be very reliable conceptually to make such passives in addition to some things above.

@ZOS_Wrobel Read please this thread, it's actual at least 1 year already to seriously buff stamdk to make him in a raw with other classes in pvp..

n0she1teR · April 2018

This was asked earlier in the thread, but it was never answered.

Does shattering rocks still provide the aoe off balance chance and damage? Or did they get rid of all of that in favor of the heal?

IARTOI · April 2018

As we all know "Molten Whip" (Lava Whip morph) is not being used by almost 99% of magicka dragonknight players. My suggestion is change this to stamina morph and make it poison or disease damage so stamina dragonknigts can use class skill as main dps skill in PVP (or PVE). I've suggesting this for long time. I hope you consider it. Wolud be a good change for stamina dragonknigt.

MaxwellC · April 2018

@IARTOI
The 99% claim is definitely exaggerated mate; Molten whip is the PvE morph while Flame Lash is the PvP morph. Stam DKs do not need a Stamina whip but instead they need something for pressure.

Access to snare immunity that is cheap

Better sustain in the form of helping hands and battle roar rework (battle roar should replenish 50% of your Resources when using the highest costing ultimate i.e 250 but hopefully it'll be 200 soon).

A spammable stamina ability like my fragmented shield change or removing stonefist and making it into a new ability that suits a Stamina DK.

Still think FoO player AoE would also benefit us PvP/PvE

Igneous weapon morph changed into something that gives us oblivion damage imbued weapons or poison exploison execute when heavy attacking targets below 25%

These are just some of the many changes that we need but again I do not feel a stamina whip is needed.

Mettaricana · April 2018

Kilandros wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

mDK is going to be just a tad OP with these changes which is why I am puzzled why other classes are receiving sustain and damage nerfs while mDK is snare removal and sustain buffs

Stam DK is very lackluster but preforms extremely well in niche situations. I'd like to see it have more viability is more situations

mDK has the worst sustain in the game. It desperately needed sustain buffs. As for snare removal, unless snare immunity is also granted it's pretty useless in open-world PvP.

Give dk some class max resource and recovery passives

AddictionX · April 2018

MaxwellC wrote: »

I really hope when they choose or if they have already chosen someone to represent the DK class.. .Please please be someone who plays Stamina DK because these changes really are 90% geared towards Magicka DK.
As I said before Magicka DK is weak in PvE that stems from a lot of issues e.g cost of skills but in PvP they're strong. Stamina DK in PvE is strong but Stamina DK in PvE is weak.

I really feel the same way. I think that is because most of what makes a stamina DK are not the class skills but the weapon skills and passives. Armor skills and passives.

On another note unrelated but addressed to this thread. I think the devs understand people always want damage buffs... but how can someone buff the damage without affecting them in PvE...

A way around that I firmly believe to add utility buffs, yet people will shoot this down because it doesn't buff their "burst" or damage. Or whatever specific agenda they have in mind for how "they" play the class.

Buffs are really all welcomed. I don't understand why people always want to shoot down each other proposals. Like if someone "all-knowing" and the sole experts qualified to pitch in ideas. Ideas are ideas. To be honest, there needs to be more. So creating that atmosphere in this thread is important so the class gets more attention. The attention it deserves and quite frankly seemingly neglected.

usmcjdking · April 2018

The wings change is really nice and the type of small balancing that SHOULD be occurring.

I strongly recommend adding 2ish seconds of snare immunity onto it as the goal should be to untether magicka Dragonknight from Vampire. The reason why is because inflight snares/debuffs are reapplied - the removal only really works when you have already disengaged opponents or are winning a fight handily from fleeing/defensive opponents.

And then send vampire into the dumpster where it belongs.

Kronuxx · April 2018

n0she1teR wrote: »

This was asked earlier in the thread, but it was never answered.

Does shattering rocks still provide the aoe off balance chance and damage? Or did they get rid of all of that in favor of the heal?

they got rid of it in favor of the heal.

Narvuntien · April 2018

I ran some dps testing on my MagDK dps... today. With the only change being the addition of a gold divines Grothdar set and 10 more cp. I had a 4K dps increase.

. i.e More than just having grothdar. (Which was about 1.5K)

The combustion passive appears to be adding another 100 mag regen/s, but I heard it was supposed to be 200 mag regen/s. Although it might be because this is a old version of character where I hadn't leveled alchemy for medicinal use.

BohnT · April 2018

MaxwellC wrote: »

@IARTOI
The 99% claim is definitely exaggerated mate; Molten whip is the PvE morph while Flame Lash is the PvP morph. Stam DKs do not need a Stamina whip but instead they need something for pressure.

Access to snare immunity that is cheap

Better sustain in the form of helping hands and battle roar rework (battle roar should replenish 50% of your Resources when using the highest costing ultimate i.e 250 but hopefully it'll be 200 soon).

A spammable stamina ability like my fragmented shield change or removing stonefist and making it into a new ability that suits a Stamina DK.

Still think FoO player AoE would also benefit us PvP/PvE

Igneous weapon morph changed into something that gives us oblivion damage imbued weapons or poison exploison execute when heavy attacking targets below 25%

These are just some of the many changes that we need but again I do not feel a stamina whip is needed.

I highly disagree with stamdk doesn't need a stamina whip aka stamina spammable.
If you play stamplar, stamnb remove jabs and suprise attack and replace them with a weapon spammable and after a few fights you notice how much better class spammables are compared to what weapons offer.

As others already said in this post a stamina spammable / ability in earthen heart skill line is hard to create as you have to take in account that you get 990 stamina from helping hands and stamina cost is reduced by glyphs or medium passives.

About igneous weapons, no more oblivion damage in this game, i don't know if you play sorc or anything but oblivion damage has to be removed from the game entirely.

A instant stamina spammable would make stamdk all the more lethal, a stamina deep breath with no healing bit higher damage at the second hit would be my dream

Kilandros · April 2018

BohnT wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@IARTOI
The 99% claim is definitely exaggerated mate; Molten whip is the PvE morph while Flame Lash is the PvP morph. Stam DKs do not need a Stamina whip but instead they need something for pressure.

Access to snare immunity that is cheap

Better sustain in the form of helping hands and battle roar rework (battle roar should replenish 50% of your Resources when using the highest costing ultimate i.e 250 but hopefully it'll be 200 soon).

A spammable stamina ability like my fragmented shield change or removing stonefist and making it into a new ability that suits a Stamina DK.

Still think FoO player AoE would also benefit us PvP/PvE

Igneous weapon morph changed into something that gives us oblivion damage imbued weapons or poison exploison execute when heavy attacking targets below 25%

These are just some of the many changes that we need but again I do not feel a stamina whip is needed.

I highly disagree with stamdk doesn't need a stamina whip aka stamina spammable.
If you play stamplar, stamnb remove jabs and suprise attack and replace them with a weapon spammable and after a few fights you notice how much better class spammables are compared to what weapons offer.

As others already said in this post a stamina spammable / ability in earthen heart skill line is hard to create as you have to take in account that you get 990 stamina from helping hands and stamina cost is reduced by glyphs or medium passives.

About igneous weapons, no more oblivion damage in this game, i don't know if you play sorc or anything but oblivion damage has to be removed from the game entirely.

A instant stamina spammable would make stamdk all the more lethal, a stamina deep breath with no healing bit higher damage at the second hit would be my dream

Not saying I disagree with you about the class spammable, but one thing to keep in mind this patch is that all classes are effectively getting a new spammable with the Psijic skill line LA empower ability.

BohnT · April 2018

Kilandros wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@IARTOI
The 99% claim is definitely exaggerated mate; Molten whip is the PvE morph while Flame Lash is the PvP morph. Stam DKs do not need a Stamina whip but instead they need something for pressure.

Access to snare immunity that is cheap

Better sustain in the form of helping hands and battle roar rework (battle roar should replenish 50% of your Resources when using the highest costing ultimate i.e 250 but hopefully it'll be 200 soon).

A spammable stamina ability like my fragmented shield change or removing stonefist and making it into a new ability that suits a Stamina DK.

Still think FoO player AoE would also benefit us PvP/PvE

Igneous weapon morph changed into something that gives us oblivion damage imbued weapons or poison exploison execute when heavy attacking targets below 25%

These are just some of the many changes that we need but again I do not feel a stamina whip is needed.

I highly disagree with stamdk doesn't need a stamina whip aka stamina spammable.
If you play stamplar, stamnb remove jabs and suprise attack and replace them with a weapon spammable and after a few fights you notice how much better class spammables are compared to what weapons offer.

As others already said in this post a stamina spammable / ability in earthen heart skill line is hard to create as you have to take in account that you get 990 stamina from helping hands and stamina cost is reduced by glyphs or medium passives.

About igneous weapons, no more oblivion damage in this game, i don't know if you play sorc or anything but oblivion damage has to be removed from the game entirely.

A instant stamina spammable would make stamdk all the more lethal, a stamina deep breath with no healing bit higher damage at the second hit would be my dream

Not saying I disagree with you about the class spammable, but one thing to keep in mind this patch is that all classes are effectively getting a new spammable with the Psijic skill line LA empower ability.

I don't think the skill will make it into the game like this. It's too powerful with empower and the other LA changes I'm pretty sure it will be changed into a la damage buff over 10 seconds with less damage on each hit.
Also i have issues with the skill La weaving is the first thing which is ruined by lag and as pvp is often plagued with lag it reduces the effectiveness.
Another issue is that you have to buy a skill line to have a spammable which has a really crappy taste

Kilandros · April 2018

BohnT wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@IARTOI
The 99% claim is definitely exaggerated mate; Molten whip is the PvE morph while Flame Lash is the PvP morph. Stam DKs do not need a Stamina whip but instead they need something for pressure.

Access to snare immunity that is cheap

Better sustain in the form of helping hands and battle roar rework (battle roar should replenish 50% of your Resources when using the highest costing ultimate i.e 250 but hopefully it'll be 200 soon).

A spammable stamina ability like my fragmented shield change or removing stonefist and making it into a new ability that suits a Stamina DK.

Still think FoO player AoE would also benefit us PvP/PvE

Igneous weapon morph changed into something that gives us oblivion damage imbued weapons or poison exploison execute when heavy attacking targets below 25%

These are just some of the many changes that we need but again I do not feel a stamina whip is needed.

I highly disagree with stamdk doesn't need a stamina whip aka stamina spammable.
If you play stamplar, stamnb remove jabs and suprise attack and replace them with a weapon spammable and after a few fights you notice how much better class spammables are compared to what weapons offer.

As others already said in this post a stamina spammable / ability in earthen heart skill line is hard to create as you have to take in account that you get 990 stamina from helping hands and stamina cost is reduced by glyphs or medium passives.

About igneous weapons, no more oblivion damage in this game, i don't know if you play sorc or anything but oblivion damage has to be removed from the game entirely.

A instant stamina spammable would make stamdk all the more lethal, a stamina deep breath with no healing bit higher damage at the second hit would be my dream

Not saying I disagree with you about the class spammable, but one thing to keep in mind this patch is that all classes are effectively getting a new spammable with the Psijic skill line LA empower ability.

I don't think the skill will make it into the game like this. It's too powerful with empower and the other LA changes I'm pretty sure it will be changed into a la damage buff over 10 seconds with less damage on each hit.
Also i have issues with the skill La weaving is the first thing which is ruined by lag and as pvp is often plagued with lag it reduces the effectiveness.
Another issue is that you have to buy a skill line to have a spammable which has a really crappy taste

They might adjust the damage, but there's no way it will become a DoT--it's clearly designed to be a universal spammable.

Carbonised · April 2018

Earthen Heart

Ash Cloud: This ability now heals you and your allies in the area and snares enemies; note the Eruption morph remains unchanged.
Cinder Storm (Ash Cloud morph): This morph now increases the healing done.

This ability is a mess btw. There are already way too many heals in this game, that goes for all classes, but especially the magDK did not need another lackluster aoe heal over time.

First of all, let's just look at how many DK class skill already have a heal attached:

Obsidian Shard
Flame/Power Lash
Burning Ember
Cauterize
Dragon Blood
Inhale
And now also Cinder Storm

This class absolutely did not need a 7th healing skill. We also did not need more snares to become focus. The MagDK already has plenty of snares and roots, and slapping a lackluster, slow heal on an AoE snare doesn't make it any more appealing. What we did need, though, was an AoE DoT in your class kit that was at least somewhat unique and useful, like Liquid Lightning, Path of Darkness and Shards/Ritual. Those are class AoE DoTs with interesting secondary effects.

Eruption? Costs are higher than other, similar class AoEs, damage is much lower, and the only secondary effect is snare, of which we already have too many in this game, and especially as MagDKs. The only reason you use it on a magDK PvE rotation is because you have little else to put on your bar, it has somewhat long duration and is very much fire-and-forget, plus it procs for a bit of ult gain.

What you should have done was given Eruption more initial damage and slightly higher DoT ticks, lowering the costs to make cost/damage similar to other class AoE skills, while giving Cinder Storm no initial damage, less damage DoT ticks and a secondary effect such as major evasion to the DK and maybe minor evasion to allies while they are all standing in the AoE.

That would have made for some interesting choice between damage and utility/defense, and made this a strong class skill. Instead you slapped a useless HoT on a morph no one uses on a class that had 6 other class healing skills and called it a day.

This is a do-over.

nCats · April 2018

Kilandros wrote: »

Reflective Plate will need to provide brief snare immunity in addition to removing snares.

Came here for this. Ideally immobilizations should be included too, and yes, definitely a few seconds immunity.

vMaick · April 2018

Carbonised wrote: »

Earthen Heart
Ash Cloud: This ability now heals you and your allies in the area and snares enemies; note the Eruption morph remains unchanged.

Cinder Storm (Ash Cloud morph): This morph now increases the healing done.

This ability is a mess btw. There are already way too many heals in this game, that goes for all classes, but especially the magDK did not need another lackluster aoe heal over time.

First of all, let's just look at how many class skill already have a heal attached:
Obsidian Shard

Flame/Power Lash

Burning Ember

Cauterize

Dragon Blood

Inhale

And now also Cinder Storm

This class absolutely did not need a 7th healing skill. We also did not need more snares to become focus. The MagDK already has plenty of snares and roots, and slapping a lackluster, slow heal on an AoE snare doesn't make it any more appealing. What we did need, though, was an AoE DoT in your class kit that was at least somewhat unique and useful, like Liquid Lightning, Path of Darkness and Shards/Ritual. Those are class AoE DoTs with interesting secondary effects.

Eruption? Costs are higher than other, similar class AoEs, damage is much lower, and the only secondary effect is snare, of which we already have too many in this game, and especially as MagDKs. The only reason you use it on a magDK PvE rotation is because you have little else to put on your bar, it has somewhat long duration and is very much fire-and-forget, plus it procs for a bit of ult gain.

What you should have done was given Eruption more initial damage and slightly higher DoT ticks, lowering the costs to make cost/damage similar to other class AoE skills, while giving Cinder Storm no initial damage, less damage DoT ticks and a secondary effect such as major evasion to the DK and maybe minor evasion to allies while they are all standing in the AoE.

That would have made for some interesting choice between damage and utility/defense, and made this a strong class skill. Instead you slapped a useless HoT on a morph no one uses on a class that had 6 other class healing skills and called it a day.

This is a do-over.

I completely agree and hope more people see this.

reiverx · April 2018

Carbonised wrote: »

Earthen Heart
Ash Cloud: This ability now heals you and your allies in the area and snares enemies; note the Eruption morph remains unchanged.

Cinder Storm (Ash Cloud morph): This morph now increases the healing done.

This ability is a mess btw. There are already way too many heals in this game, that goes for all classes, but especially the magDK did not need another lackluster aoe heal over time.

First of all, let's just look at how many DK class skill already have a heal attached:
Obsidian Shard

Flame/Power Lash

Burning Ember

Cauterize

Dragon Blood

Inhale

And now also Cinder Storm

This class absolutely did not need a 7th healing skill. We also did not need more snares to become focus. The MagDK already has plenty of snares and roots, and slapping a lackluster, slow heal on an AoE snare doesn't make it any more appealing. What we did need, though, was an AoE DoT in your class kit that was at least somewhat unique and useful, like Liquid Lightning, Path of Darkness and Shards/Ritual. Those are class AoE DoTs with interesting secondary effects.

Eruption? Costs are higher than other, similar class AoEs, damage is much lower, and the only secondary effect is snare, of which we already have too many in this game, and especially as MagDKs. The only reason you use it on a magDK PvE rotation is because you have little else to put on your bar, it has somewhat long duration and is very much fire-and-forget, plus it procs for a bit of ult gain.

What you should have done was given Eruption more initial damage and slightly higher DoT ticks, lowering the costs to make cost/damage similar to other class AoE skills, while giving Cinder Storm no initial damage, less damage DoT ticks and a secondary effect such as major evasion to the DK and maybe minor evasion to allies while they are all standing in the AoE.

That would have made for some interesting choice between damage and utility/defense, and made this a strong class skill. Instead you slapped a useless HoT on a morph no one uses on a class that had 6 other class healing skills and called it a day.

This is a do-over.

You know, I was just thinking about the very same thing. DK is becoming too focused on healing mechanisms. Everything about DK has some sort of weird condition attached to it.