PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Dragonknight Balance

BohnT

Subversus wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

@ZOS_Wrobel is there anything planned to make stamdk a viable pvp spec again?
During the last pts you asked us to say what stamdk needs to be viable and we made lots of proposals, ideas for changes and balance discussions and for all of them it mostly comes down to these points:

- a strong instant stamina class spammable
- atleast 2 seconds snare immunity along with the snare removal on reflective plate
- more stamina class skills
- reworking the useless passives: elder Dragon, world in ruins
- worst ulti regen of all classes although DK sustain is build around using ultimates.

Please come to this post and tell us if you plan to change anything about stamdk or if we can simply spare our breath because it doesn't help anyway

Don't stamdk pull some of the highest numbers?

Good dueling and PvE DPS but in most forms of PvP they aren't very good

They lose to any stamnb bleed, stamsorc bleed or stamplar bleed build or any defile focused build for that matter.
They aren't really good in PvE anymore aswell. Stamsorcs and nbs pull equal or more ST while having either more cleave or bring better utility to the group.

Tell that to Highpolicy and Joarden (Think I got that right). Joarden won the legend competition 2 or 3 times and legend is full of bleedblades

How often did he lose however, also i remember legend has rather strict rules. On Pc EU i don't think there is any DK, not even from the Beta ones who can win a duel against the best Bleedblades but @Subversus has much better insight on those issues.

Hard to win as a DK against bleed blades to be fair. Bleeds counter block, which is the absolute biggest crutch magdk has (not even mentioning stamdk, they’re in different leagues...), and then add incap, surprise attack and merciless on top.

Thank you i just don't see how a stamdk could win a duel tournament against good Bleedblades and not only those but also all Defile Magicka builds.

I don’t see how a stamdk could win against any good players at all, no matter the skill of the stamdk. It only shows what kind of players he/she was fighting. But then again, it’s common knowledge that the NA scene has only recently been dipping in the cancer duel meta, so they still have some stuff to discover. Like how a sorc can win against a magblade LUL

Yeah that's what i been wondering all the time, when fighting with a new class the first class to be unable to kill me with a normal build is Stamdk, then nothing new happens for a long time and then OW magsorcs and Magwarden come to mind but they can force a draw much easier. Stamdk is often stucked to lose the fight it can't win while other classes can atleast get a draw or leave the fight without dieing.

On magsorc vs magnb i really don't know how this happens unless it was petsorc in IC with the tel var set vs a non cloak meele magnb
Although i won some fights against decent ( not good) magnbs with my magsorc with a normal OW build (happened in OW so no duel builds on the nbs too i guess) and I'm a really bad magsorc compared to Metzger, Derra, Malcom etc.
But everytime there was a critical mistake made by the NB like, tryharding for the kill while at 30% health, going into cloak to avoid frags right before curse explodes, don't cloak when meteor visual is on them even they know I'm using rune cage etc.

BohnT

Carbonised wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

- Magdk is viable again in PvE DPS

Applying a small resource gain that only procs on application of burning and has a cooldown isn't magically going to turn mDK into viable as DDs.
It's a very small buff in the right direction, but it's nothing more than that.

The changes to Cinder Storm, Obsidian shield and shard and Cauterize also mean nothing for a MagDK DD, it's aimed at making DK healers more viable.

All the general buffs to staves and mag are general buffs that benefit mNB and mSorc just as much.

Leave your own feedback if you must, but don't speak on behalf of the entire discussion with a tl;dr summary.

The overall changes made them viable again if you fail to see that I'm sorry for you.
It doesn't matter how they catch up it's just important that they do and they did.

Joxer61

Carbonised wrote: »

All the general buffs to staves and mag are general buffs that benefit mNB and mSorc just as much.

Leave your own feedback if you must, but don't speak on behalf of the entire discussion with a tl;dr summary.

To be fair he did say "up to this point" and not as a whole. Also, this is the DK thread so comments about other mag classes kinda a moot point, they have their own thread. I for one, as a new/returning rookie am happy to see magDK MAYBE seeing some love!

Narvuntien

I think StamDK should never have burst, their class identity is that they don't.
I do agree the heavy attack damage nerfs were a big nerf to StamDK. I think perhaps they need a way to further buff their heavy attacks.

Perhaps what they need is Stamina CC ability, no other class has that.....Need to be able to hold their target down and wail on them.

The sustain buff is exactly what magdk needed, sustain is all about thresholds, now its possible for them to actually sustain a rotation. It takes only a little bit of help or the occasional heavy to sustain.

BohnT

Narvuntien wrote: »

I think StamDK should never have burst, their class identity is that they don't.
I do agree the heavy attack damage nerfs were a big nerf to StamDK. I think perhaps they need a way to further buff their heavy attacks.

Perhaps what they need is Stamina CC ability, no other class has that.....Need to be able to hold their target down and wail on them.

The sustain buff is exactly what magdk needed, sustain is all about thresholds, now its possible for them to actually sustain a rotation. It takes only a little bit of help or the occasional heavy to sustain.

So what should DK have then? dots? Well bleeds are way stronger than any DK Dot.
Why a stam CC when reverb is already one of the best CCs in the game and 1h&s synergises great with DK.

Stamdk needs burst or lots of pressure. If you give them more pressure via dots they become op in PvE while still being mediocre in PvP or you make them tanks that can't do anything outside of waiting until the get zerged down because they can't kill anything

phaneub17_ESO

Is Molten Armaments morph still 40% buff to Heavy Attacks or was that missed?

BohnT

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Is Molten Armaments morph still 40% buff to Heavy Attacks or was that missed?

Still does 40% extra damage.

Numerikuu

*sigh*... I'm already missing the off-balance that Shattering Rocks once had...just...why.......

At least they didn't remove the burning/poison dot buff from Combustion and the new effect was added on top. Awesome

BohnT

Numerikuu wrote: »

*sigh*... I'm already missing the off-balance that Shattering Rocks once had...just...why.......

At least they didn't remove the burning/poison dot buff from Combustion and the new effect was added on top. Awesome

Is it still working?, because a lot of tooltips on PTS are wrong or haven't been updated.

Numerikuu

BohnT wrote: »

Numerikuu wrote: »

*sigh*... I'm already missing the off-balance that Shattering Rocks once had...just...why.......

At least they didn't remove the burning/poison dot buff from Combustion and the new effect was added on top. Awesome

Is it still working?, because a lot of tooltips on PTS are wrong or haven't been updated.

If you're referring to the off-balance from Shattering Rocks that was removed. Now when the effect ends on the enemy and they hit you, they heal you instead. Because reasons. (why. why why why--)

• Shattering Rocks (Petrify morph): This morph has been redesigned so that when the stun ends, it causes the enemy’s next attack to heal their target.

As for the magicka/stamina return from the Combustion passive? I've yet to get the chance to test it.

phaneub17_ESO

BohnT wrote: »

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Is Molten Armaments morph still 40% buff to Heavy Attacks or was that missed?

Still does 40% extra damage.

I meant, they changed everything else to improving Light Attacks instead of Heavy Attacks. I'm wondering if they skipped over it and if they mean to keep it for Heavy Attacks.

BohnT

Numerikuu wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Numerikuu wrote: »

*sigh*... I'm already missing the off-balance that Shattering Rocks once had...just...why.......

At least they didn't remove the burning/poison dot buff from Combustion and the new effect was added on top. Awesome

Is it still working?, because a lot of tooltips on PTS are wrong or haven't been updated.

If you're referring to the off-balance from Shattering Rocks that was removed. Now when the effect ends on the enemy and they hit you, they heal you instead. Because reasons. (why. why why why--)

• Shattering Rocks (Petrify morph): This morph has been redesigned so that when the stun ends, it causes the enemy’s next attack to heal their target.

As for the magicka/stamina return from the Combustion passive? I've yet to get the chance to test it.

I was talking about the combustion dot buff. I already tested shattering blows and it seems to have a rather short duration for the heal like ~2 seconds after the stun ends you don't get any heals but not sure if bugged or intended as i couldn't test it with anyone outside of duels with randoms who didn't bother to test it

ZoM_Head

Carbonised wrote: »

Earthen Heart

• Ash Cloud: This ability now heals you and your allies in the area and snares enemies; note the Eruption morph remains unchanged.
• Cinder Storm (Ash Cloud morph): This morph now increases the healing done.

This ability is a mess btw. There are already way too many heals in this game, that goes for all classes, but especially the magDK did not need another lackluster aoe heal over time.

First of all, let's just look at how many DK class skill already have a heal attached:

1. Obsidian Shard
2. Flame/Power Lash
3. Burning Ember
4. Cauterize
5. Dragon Blood
6. Inhale
7. And now also Cinder Storm

This class absolutely did not need a 7th healing skill. We also did not need more snares to become focus. The MagDK already has plenty of snares and roots, and slapping a lackluster, slow heal on an AoE snare doesn't make it any more appealing. What we did need, though, was an AoE DoT in your class kit that was at least somewhat unique and useful, like Liquid Lightning, Path of Darkness and Shards/Ritual. Those are class AoE DoTs with interesting secondary effects.

Eruption? Costs are higher than other, similar class AoEs, damage is much lower, and the only secondary effect is snare, of which we already have too many in this game, and especially as MagDKs. The only reason you use it on a magDK PvE rotation is because you have little else to put on your bar, it has somewhat long duration and is very much fire-and-forget, plus it procs for a bit of ult gain.

What you should have done was given Eruption more initial damage and slightly higher DoT ticks, lowering the costs to make cost/damage similar to other class AoE skills, while giving Cinder Storm no initial damage, less damage DoT ticks and a secondary effect such as major evasion to the DK and maybe minor evasion to allies while they are all standing in the AoE.

That would have made for some interesting choice between damage and utility/defense, and made this a strong class skill. Instead you slapped a useless HoT on a morph no one uses on a class that had 6 other class healing skills and called it a day.

This is a do-over.

Looks like they are trying to make "all classes are able to dps, heal and tank" again, while i appreciate the idea, no one in the right mind, in the real world, will play a mDK healer, even in vet dungeons. Warden or maybe a Sorc or NB will be far more effective.

Sigh, whatever happened to just sitting down and actually thinking about skills properly, instead of just throwing ideas around wildly?

Carbonised

I wrote this in another DK thread and I don't mind writing it again since it is still relevant:

Mag DK DD predominantly in PvE have the following drawbacks:

- stuck with no class sustain or passive regen outside a battle roar that is now nerfed into minimal levels (this was before Combustion change, which is a small sustain buff. A small one)
- stuck with no mobility whatsoever outside a gap closer (still true, though the Psijic skill will at least grant you a few secs of expedition, but it's not a class skill)
- stuck with no execute whatsoever (still true, can't even access an execute in non-class skills)
- stuck with gimping itself with heavy armor and/or sword/shield simply for a modicum of survival in pvp (magDK has little to no defense in PvP outside blocking, which usually requires heavy armor and/or S&B)
- stuck with one of the lowest dps potentials in PvE (before recent changes. Mag will get stronger this patch, mostly because of changes to set items, and because of (needed) nerfs to stam damage in trials/dungeons. MagDK get no specific class damage buffs this patch, other than the slight sustain increase. At best they will be as good DDs as mNB and mSorc)
- stuck with melee range in both pvp and pve (But then there's this. A huge drawback. Stam always cry that they need larger damage because they are melee based and in higher risk. Well so is the mDK. All our class skills for damage are melee based, breath, embers, whip, even inhale. Why should stam get a damage boost for being handicaped by melee range and mDKs shouldn't?)
- stuck with little burst and all DoTs - which are both healable and purge/cleansable (and this handicaps mDKs even further. In a PvE environment, especially newer trials and dungeons, burst is everything. Bosses come with phases you need to burst down ASAP or get wiped, or invulnerable phases where you have to burst heavy damage in between. DoTs are a huge handicap in many PvE vet environments, and the class suffers for having little burst compared to other classes, especially lacking an execute. In PvP the mDK also is handicaped not only by the lack of mobility and being forced into melee ranged, but all the DoTs are easily outhealed or downright purged. The mDK has other abilities that somewhat make up for it, but truth is that in PvP you're still absolutely dependant on combos involving proc'ing power lashes and timing your ultis in order to make kills, as applying DoTs and using spamables without the necessary burst isn't going to take down most people)

These are still the issues with mDK, and while we are seeing some improvement this patch, the improvements are largely nothing to do with the DK class itself (addition of psijic skill line, staves counting as 2 set items, nerf of stamina damage in general etc), and the Combustion buff is a small helping hand at best.

BohnT

Carbonised wrote: »

I wrote this in another DK thread and I don't mind writing it again since it is still relevant:

Mag DK DD predominantly in PvE have the following drawbacks:

- stuck with no class sustain or passive regen outside a battle roar that is now nerfed into minimal levels (this was before Combustion change, which is a small sustain buff. A small one)
- stuck with no mobility whatsoever outside a gap closer (still true, though the Psijic skill will at least grant you a few secs of expedition, but it's not a class skill)
- stuck with no execute whatsoever (still true, can't even access an execute in non-class skills)
- stuck with gimping itself with heavy armor and/or sword/shield simply for a modicum of survival in pvp (magDK has little to no defense in PvP outside blocking, which usually requires heavy armor and/or S&B)
- stuck with one of the lowest dps potentials in PvE (before recent changes. Mag will get stronger this patch, mostly because of changes to set items, and because of (needed) nerfs to stam damage in trials/dungeons. MagDK get no specific class damage buffs this patch, other than the slight sustain increase. At best they will be as good DDs as mNB and mSorc)
- stuck with melee range in both pvp and pve But then there's this. A huge drawback. Stam always cry that they need larger damage because they are melee based and in higher risk. Well so is the mDK. All our class skills for damage are melee based, breath, embers, whip, even inhale. Why should stam get a damage boost for being handicaped by melee range and mDKs shouldn't?)
- stuck with little burst and all DoTs - which are both healable and purge/cleansable (and this handicaps mDKs even further. In a PvE environment, especially newer trials and dungeons, burst is everything. Bosses come with phases you need to burst down ASAP or get wiped, or invulnerable phases where you have to burst heavy damage in between. DoTs are a huge handicap in many PvE vet environments, and the class suffers for having little burst compared to other classes, especially lacking an execute. In PvP the mDK also is handicaped not only by the lack of mobility and being forced into melee ranged, but all the DoTs are easily outhealed or downright purged. The mDK has other abilities that somewhat make up for it, but truth is that in PvP you're still absolutely dependant on combos involving proc'ing power lashes and timing your ultis in order to make kills, as applying DoTs and using spamables without the necessary burst isn't going to take down most people.

These are still the issues with mDK, and while we are seeing some improvement this patch, the improvements are largely nothing to do with the DK class itself (addition of psijic skill line, staves counting as 2 set items, nerf of stamina damage in general etc), and the Combustion buff is a small helping hand at best.

No one needs mobility investment in pve. You can do every PvE content with the mobility you have without any speedbuff etc. Mobility is only needed in PvP and there it is fine as soon as we get snare immunity on reflective plate.
No one needs that execute in PvE as long as you can still pull enough damage which Magdk does this patch it's a viable Meele DD no need to add an execute which no one would use in PvP as already have a hard time fitting all needed skills on your bar
Light armor magdk is not squishy at all. Play @DDuke s build and wreck people with high damage and good survivability. When you need HA to survive you just need to rethink your build or skill level.

Magdk synergises best with meele why would you want to go ranged? You can absolutely go ranged in pvp but your whole class is build around dominance in meele range and this is where magdk shines and it has everything to force others to be meele. Also only 2/10 specs are viable ranged, magsorc and magnb.

No one cares for burst in PvE, you care about high ST damage but burst is only wanted in pvp and Magdk actually has good burst/ pressure+ burst.
Max burst from a magdk is: heavy attack + leap + FoO+ drain essence explosion + power whip. Also all damage from Magdks is 25% stronger again the majority of Cyrodiil which is like a permanent major berserk (strongest damage buff in the game)

Anyone saying magdk is weak in pve or PvP after this patch is ignoring the reality.
Stop spreading false information because you lack the ability to keep up with the class because it is very strong and is one of the specs that could turn op with just some small changes.


MagDK is not weak not at all neither in pve nor PvP

Kilandros

BohnT wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

I wrote this in another DK thread and I don't mind writing it again since it is still relevant:

Mag DK DD predominantly in PvE have the following drawbacks:

- stuck with no class sustain or passive regen outside a battle roar that is now nerfed into minimal levels (this was before Combustion change, which is a small sustain buff. A small one)
- stuck with no mobility whatsoever outside a gap closer (still true, though the Psijic skill will at least grant you a few secs of expedition, but it's not a class skill)
- stuck with no execute whatsoever (still true, can't even access an execute in non-class skills)
- stuck with gimping itself with heavy armor and/or sword/shield simply for a modicum of survival in pvp (magDK has little to no defense in PvP outside blocking, which usually requires heavy armor and/or S&B)
- stuck with one of the lowest dps potentials in PvE (before recent changes. Mag will get stronger this patch, mostly because of changes to set items, and because of (needed) nerfs to stam damage in trials/dungeons. MagDK get no specific class damage buffs this patch, other than the slight sustain increase. At best they will be as good DDs as mNB and mSorc)
- stuck with melee range in both pvp and pve But then there's this. A huge drawback. Stam always cry that they need larger damage because they are melee based and in higher risk. Well so is the mDK. All our class skills for damage are melee based, breath, embers, whip, even inhale. Why should stam get a damage boost for being handicaped by melee range and mDKs shouldn't?)
- stuck with little burst and all DoTs - which are both healable and purge/cleansable (and this handicaps mDKs even further. In a PvE environment, especially newer trials and dungeons, burst is everything. Bosses come with phases you need to burst down ASAP or get wiped, or invulnerable phases where you have to burst heavy damage in between. DoTs are a huge handicap in many PvE vet environments, and the class suffers for having little burst compared to other classes, especially lacking an execute. In PvP the mDK also is handicaped not only by the lack of mobility and being forced into melee ranged, but all the DoTs are easily outhealed or downright purged. The mDK has other abilities that somewhat make up for it, but truth is that in PvP you're still absolutely dependant on combos involving proc'ing power lashes and timing your ultis in order to make kills, as applying DoTs and using spamables without the necessary burst isn't going to take down most people.

These are still the issues with mDK, and while we are seeing some improvement this patch, the improvements are largely nothing to do with the DK class itself (addition of psijic skill line, staves counting as 2 set items, nerf of stamina damage in general etc), and the Combustion buff is a small helping hand at best.

No one needs mobility investment in pve. You can do every PvE content with the mobility you have without any speedbuff etc. Mobility is only needed in PvP and there it is fine as soon as we get snare immunity on reflective plate.
No one needs that execute in PvE as long as you can still pull enough damage which Magdk does this patch it's a viable Meele DD no need to add an execute which no one would use in PvP as already have a hard time fitting all needed skills on your bar
Light armor magdk is not squishy at all. Play @DDuke s build and wreck people with high damage and good survivability. When you need HA to survive you just need to rethink your build or skill level.

Magdk synergises best with meele why would you want to go ranged? You can absolutely go ranged in pvp but your whole class is build around dominance in meele range and this is where magdk shines and it has everything to force others to be meele. Also only 2/10 specs are viable ranged, magsorc and magnb.

No one cares for burst in PvE, you care about high ST damage but burst is only wanted in pvp and Magdk actually has good burst/ pressure+ burst.
Max burst from a magdk is: heavy attack + leap + FoO+ drain essence explosion + power whip. Also all damage from Magdks is 25% stronger again the majority of Cyrodiil which is like a permanent major berserk (strongest damage buff in the game)

Anyone saying magdk is weak in pve or PvP after this patch is ignoring the reality.
Stop spreading false information because you lack the ability to keep up with the class because it is very strong and is one of the specs that could turn op with just some small changes.


MagDK is not weak not at all neither in pve nor PvP

All you're doing is clogging this thread. None of your discussions are constructive. All you do is yell and rage at people. How do you expect the Devs to do anything for StamDK if they have to wade through this stuff? Seriously, go back and re-read all of your comments; all you do is bicker with anyone you have even a remote disagreement with. Please stop clogging this thread with garbage.

BohnT

Kilandros wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

I wrote this in another DK thread and I don't mind writing it again since it is still relevant:

Mag DK DD predominantly in PvE have the following drawbacks:

- stuck with no class sustain or passive regen outside a battle roar that is now nerfed into minimal levels (this was before Combustion change, which is a small sustain buff. A small one)
- stuck with no mobility whatsoever outside a gap closer (still true, though the Psijic skill will at least grant you a few secs of expedition, but it's not a class skill)
- stuck with no execute whatsoever (still true, can't even access an execute in non-class skills)
- stuck with gimping itself with heavy armor and/or sword/shield simply for a modicum of survival in pvp (magDK has little to no defense in PvP outside blocking, which usually requires heavy armor and/or S&B)
- stuck with one of the lowest dps potentials in PvE (before recent changes. Mag will get stronger this patch, mostly because of changes to set items, and because of (needed) nerfs to stam damage in trials/dungeons. MagDK get no specific class damage buffs this patch, other than the slight sustain increase. At best they will be as good DDs as mNB and mSorc)
- stuck with melee range in both pvp and pve But then there's this. A huge drawback. Stam always cry that they need larger damage because they are melee based and in higher risk. Well so is the mDK. All our class skills for damage are melee based, breath, embers, whip, even inhale. Why should stam get a damage boost for being handicaped by melee range and mDKs shouldn't?)
- stuck with little burst and all DoTs - which are both healable and purge/cleansable (and this handicaps mDKs even further. In a PvE environment, especially newer trials and dungeons, burst is everything. Bosses come with phases you need to burst down ASAP or get wiped, or invulnerable phases where you have to burst heavy damage in between. DoTs are a huge handicap in many PvE vet environments, and the class suffers for having little burst compared to other classes, especially lacking an execute. In PvP the mDK also is handicaped not only by the lack of mobility and being forced into melee ranged, but all the DoTs are easily outhealed or downright purged. The mDK has other abilities that somewhat make up for it, but truth is that in PvP you're still absolutely dependant on combos involving proc'ing power lashes and timing your ultis in order to make kills, as applying DoTs and using spamables without the necessary burst isn't going to take down most people.

These are still the issues with mDK, and while we are seeing some improvement this patch, the improvements are largely nothing to do with the DK class itself (addition of psijic skill line, staves counting as 2 set items, nerf of stamina damage in general etc), and the Combustion buff is a small helping hand at best.

No one needs mobility investment in pve. You can do every PvE content with the mobility you have without any speedbuff etc. Mobility is only needed in PvP and there it is fine as soon as we get snare immunity on reflective plate.
No one needs that execute in PvE as long as you can still pull enough damage which Magdk does this patch it's a viable Meele DD no need to add an execute which no one would use in PvP as already have a hard time fitting all needed skills on your bar
Light armor magdk is not squishy at all. Play @DDuke s build and wreck people with high damage and good survivability. When you need HA to survive you just need to rethink your build or skill level.

Magdk synergises best with meele why would you want to go ranged? You can absolutely go ranged in pvp but your whole class is build around dominance in meele range and this is where magdk shines and it has everything to force others to be meele. Also only 2/10 specs are viable ranged, magsorc and magnb.

No one cares for burst in PvE, you care about high ST damage but burst is only wanted in pvp and Magdk actually has good burst/ pressure+ burst.
Max burst from a magdk is: heavy attack + leap + FoO+ drain essence explosion + power whip. Also all damage from Magdks is 25% stronger again the majority of Cyrodiil which is like a permanent major berserk (strongest damage buff in the game)

Anyone saying magdk is weak in pve or PvP after this patch is ignoring the reality.
Stop spreading false information because you lack the ability to keep up with the class because it is very strong and is one of the specs that could turn op with just some small changes.


MagDK is not weak not at all neither in pve nor PvP

All you're doing is clogging this thread. None of your discussions are constructive. All you do is yell and rage at people. How do you expect the Devs to do anything for StamDK if they have to wade through this stuff? Seriously, go back and re-read all of your comments; all you do is bicker with anyone you have even a remote disagreement with. Please stop clogging this thread with garbage.

I don't yell at any i just lay down facts, and if people spread wrong information i will disagree with them and correct them.

Everything from the comment you quoted is there to correct people from spreading wrong information and to prevent that there are wrong decissions made by the Devs because they get feedback from players who are not good enough to give good Feedback

Kilandros

BohnT wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

I wrote this in another DK thread and I don't mind writing it again since it is still relevant:

Mag DK DD predominantly in PvE have the following drawbacks:

- stuck with no class sustain or passive regen outside a battle roar that is now nerfed into minimal levels (this was before Combustion change, which is a small sustain buff. A small one)
- stuck with no mobility whatsoever outside a gap closer (still true, though the Psijic skill will at least grant you a few secs of expedition, but it's not a class skill)
- stuck with no execute whatsoever (still true, can't even access an execute in non-class skills)
- stuck with gimping itself with heavy armor and/or sword/shield simply for a modicum of survival in pvp (magDK has little to no defense in PvP outside blocking, which usually requires heavy armor and/or S&B)
- stuck with one of the lowest dps potentials in PvE (before recent changes. Mag will get stronger this patch, mostly because of changes to set items, and because of (needed) nerfs to stam damage in trials/dungeons. MagDK get no specific class damage buffs this patch, other than the slight sustain increase. At best they will be as good DDs as mNB and mSorc)
- stuck with melee range in both pvp and pve But then there's this. A huge drawback. Stam always cry that they need larger damage because they are melee based and in higher risk. Well so is the mDK. All our class skills for damage are melee based, breath, embers, whip, even inhale. Why should stam get a damage boost for being handicaped by melee range and mDKs shouldn't?)
- stuck with little burst and all DoTs - which are both healable and purge/cleansable (and this handicaps mDKs even further. In a PvE environment, especially newer trials and dungeons, burst is everything. Bosses come with phases you need to burst down ASAP or get wiped, or invulnerable phases where you have to burst heavy damage in between. DoTs are a huge handicap in many PvE vet environments, and the class suffers for having little burst compared to other classes, especially lacking an execute. In PvP the mDK also is handicaped not only by the lack of mobility and being forced into melee ranged, but all the DoTs are easily outhealed or downright purged. The mDK has other abilities that somewhat make up for it, but truth is that in PvP you're still absolutely dependant on combos involving proc'ing power lashes and timing your ultis in order to make kills, as applying DoTs and using spamables without the necessary burst isn't going to take down most people.

These are still the issues with mDK, and while we are seeing some improvement this patch, the improvements are largely nothing to do with the DK class itself (addition of psijic skill line, staves counting as 2 set items, nerf of stamina damage in general etc), and the Combustion buff is a small helping hand at best.

No one needs mobility investment in pve. You can do every PvE content with the mobility you have without any speedbuff etc. Mobility is only needed in PvP and there it is fine as soon as we get snare immunity on reflective plate.
No one needs that execute in PvE as long as you can still pull enough damage which Magdk does this patch it's a viable Meele DD no need to add an execute which no one would use in PvP as already have a hard time fitting all needed skills on your bar
Light armor magdk is not squishy at all. Play @DDuke s build and wreck people with high damage and good survivability. When you need HA to survive you just need to rethink your build or skill level.

Magdk synergises best with meele why would you want to go ranged? You can absolutely go ranged in pvp but your whole class is build around dominance in meele range and this is where magdk shines and it has everything to force others to be meele. Also only 2/10 specs are viable ranged, magsorc and magnb.

No one cares for burst in PvE, you care about high ST damage but burst is only wanted in pvp and Magdk actually has good burst/ pressure+ burst.
Max burst from a magdk is: heavy attack + leap + FoO+ drain essence explosion + power whip. Also all damage from Magdks is 25% stronger again the majority of Cyrodiil which is like a permanent major berserk (strongest damage buff in the game)

Anyone saying magdk is weak in pve or PvP after this patch is ignoring the reality.
Stop spreading false information because you lack the ability to keep up with the class because it is very strong and is one of the specs that could turn op with just some small changes.


MagDK is not weak not at all neither in pve nor PvP

All you're doing is clogging this thread. None of your discussions are constructive. All you do is yell and rage at people. How do you expect the Devs to do anything for StamDK if they have to wade through this stuff? Seriously, go back and re-read all of your comments; all you do is bicker with anyone you have even a remote disagreement with. Please stop clogging this thread with garbage.

I don't yell at any i just lay down facts, and if people spread wrong information i will disagree with them and correct them.

Everything from the comment you quoted is there to correct people from spreading wrong information and to prevent that there are wrong decissions made by the Devs because they get feedback from players who are not good enough to give good Feedback

You can't stop everyone from giving their feedback though, whether you think it good feedback or bad. But you don't need to respond to every single feedback post with your rebuttal--it's just clogging up the thread.

Carbonised

BohnT wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

I wrote this in another DK thread and I don't mind writing it again since it is still relevant:

Mag DK DD predominantly in PvE have the following drawbacks:

- stuck with no class sustain or passive regen outside a battle roar that is now nerfed into minimal levels (this was before Combustion change, which is a small sustain buff. A small one)
- stuck with no mobility whatsoever outside a gap closer (still true, though the Psijic skill will at least grant you a few secs of expedition, but it's not a class skill)
- stuck with no execute whatsoever (still true, can't even access an execute in non-class skills)
- stuck with gimping itself with heavy armor and/or sword/shield simply for a modicum of survival in pvp (magDK has little to no defense in PvP outside blocking, which usually requires heavy armor and/or S&B)
- stuck with one of the lowest dps potentials in PvE (before recent changes. Mag will get stronger this patch, mostly because of changes to set items, and because of (needed) nerfs to stam damage in trials/dungeons. MagDK get no specific class damage buffs this patch, other than the slight sustain increase. At best they will be as good DDs as mNB and mSorc)
- stuck with melee range in both pvp and pve But then there's this. A huge drawback. Stam always cry that they need larger damage because they are melee based and in higher risk. Well so is the mDK. All our class skills for damage are melee based, breath, embers, whip, even inhale. Why should stam get a damage boost for being handicaped by melee range and mDKs shouldn't?)
- stuck with little burst and all DoTs - which are both healable and purge/cleansable (and this handicaps mDKs even further. In a PvE environment, especially newer trials and dungeons, burst is everything. Bosses come with phases you need to burst down ASAP or get wiped, or invulnerable phases where you have to burst heavy damage in between. DoTs are a huge handicap in many PvE vet environments, and the class suffers for having little burst compared to other classes, especially lacking an execute. In PvP the mDK also is handicaped not only by the lack of mobility and being forced into melee ranged, but all the DoTs are easily outhealed or downright purged. The mDK has other abilities that somewhat make up for it, but truth is that in PvP you're still absolutely dependant on combos involving proc'ing power lashes and timing your ultis in order to make kills, as applying DoTs and using spamables without the necessary burst isn't going to take down most people.

These are still the issues with mDK, and while we are seeing some improvement this patch, the improvements are largely nothing to do with the DK class itself (addition of psijic skill line, staves counting as 2 set items, nerf of stamina damage in general etc), and the Combustion buff is a small helping hand at best.

No one needs mobility investment in pve. You can do every PvE content with the mobility you have without any speedbuff etc. Mobility is only needed in PvP and there it is fine as soon as we get snare immunity on reflective plate.
No one needs that execute in PvE as long as you can still pull enough damage which Magdk does this patch it's a viable Meele DD no need to add an execute which no one would use in PvP as already have a hard time fitting all needed skills on your bar
Light armor magdk is not squishy at all. Play @DDuke s build and wreck people with high damage and good survivability. When you need HA to survive you just need to rethink your build or skill level.

Magdk synergises best with meele why would you want to go ranged? You can absolutely go ranged in pvp but your whole class is build around dominance in meele range and this is where magdk shines and it has everything to force others to be meele. Also only 2/10 specs are viable ranged, magsorc and magnb.

No one cares for burst in PvE, you care about high ST damage but burst is only wanted in pvp and Magdk actually has good burst/ pressure+ burst.
Max burst from a magdk is: heavy attack + leap + FoO+ drain essence explosion + power whip. Also all damage from Magdks is 25% stronger again the majority of Cyrodiil which is like a permanent major berserk (strongest damage buff in the game)

Anyone saying magdk is weak in pve or PvP after this patch is ignoring the reality.
Stop spreading false information because you lack the ability to keep up with the class because it is very strong and is one of the specs that could turn op with just some small changes.


MagDK is not weak not at all neither in pve nor PvP

All you're doing is clogging this thread. None of your discussions are constructive. All you do is yell and rage at people. How do you expect the Devs to do anything for StamDK if they have to wade through this stuff? Seriously, go back and re-read all of your comments; all you do is bicker with anyone you have even a remote disagreement with. Please stop clogging this thread with garbage.

I don't yell at any i just lay down facts, and if people spread wrong information i will disagree with them and correct them.

Everything from the comment you quoted is there to correct people from spreading wrong information and to prevent that there are wrong decissions made by the Devs because they get feedback from players who are not good enough to give good Feedback

Your "job" is not to "correct" anyone who happens to disagree with you.

@Kilandros is absolutely right, you're acting as if this thread is your own personal domain and you have to consent or condone anything anyone else writes here. The mods have already intervened twice and deleted your posts and asked for a more constructive dialogue. I'm assuming the only reason they haven't downright closed the thread is because it's an official feedback one.

Give your own feedback if you like, but quit reacting to everything that you happen to not agree with. This thread is a sorry mess for any dev to read, and I wouldn't blame them for ignoring it altogether.

BohnT

Kilandros wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

I wrote this in another DK thread and I don't mind writing it again since it is still relevant:

Mag DK DD predominantly in PvE have the following drawbacks:

- stuck with no class sustain or passive regen outside a battle roar that is now nerfed into minimal levels (this was before Combustion change, which is a small sustain buff. A small one)
- stuck with no mobility whatsoever outside a gap closer (still true, though the Psijic skill will at least grant you a few secs of expedition, but it's not a class skill)
- stuck with no execute whatsoever (still true, can't even access an execute in non-class skills)
- stuck with gimping itself with heavy armor and/or sword/shield simply for a modicum of survival in pvp (magDK has little to no defense in PvP outside blocking, which usually requires heavy armor and/or S&B)
- stuck with one of the lowest dps potentials in PvE (before recent changes. Mag will get stronger this patch, mostly because of changes to set items, and because of (needed) nerfs to stam damage in trials/dungeons. MagDK get no specific class damage buffs this patch, other than the slight sustain increase. At best they will be as good DDs as mNB and mSorc)
- stuck with melee range in both pvp and pve But then there's this. A huge drawback. Stam always cry that they need larger damage because they are melee based and in higher risk. Well so is the mDK. All our class skills for damage are melee based, breath, embers, whip, even inhale. Why should stam get a damage boost for being handicaped by melee range and mDKs shouldn't?)
- stuck with little burst and all DoTs - which are both healable and purge/cleansable (and this handicaps mDKs even further. In a PvE environment, especially newer trials and dungeons, burst is everything. Bosses come with phases you need to burst down ASAP or get wiped, or invulnerable phases where you have to burst heavy damage in between. DoTs are a huge handicap in many PvE vet environments, and the class suffers for having little burst compared to other classes, especially lacking an execute. In PvP the mDK also is handicaped not only by the lack of mobility and being forced into melee ranged, but all the DoTs are easily outhealed or downright purged. The mDK has other abilities that somewhat make up for it, but truth is that in PvP you're still absolutely dependant on combos involving proc'ing power lashes and timing your ultis in order to make kills, as applying DoTs and using spamables without the necessary burst isn't going to take down most people.

These are still the issues with mDK, and while we are seeing some improvement this patch, the improvements are largely nothing to do with the DK class itself (addition of psijic skill line, staves counting as 2 set items, nerf of stamina damage in general etc), and the Combustion buff is a small helping hand at best.

No one needs mobility investment in pve. You can do every PvE content with the mobility you have without any speedbuff etc. Mobility is only needed in PvP and there it is fine as soon as we get snare immunity on reflective plate.
No one needs that execute in PvE as long as you can still pull enough damage which Magdk does this patch it's a viable Meele DD no need to add an execute which no one would use in PvP as already have a hard time fitting all needed skills on your bar
Light armor magdk is not squishy at all. Play @DDuke s build and wreck people with high damage and good survivability. When you need HA to survive you just need to rethink your build or skill level.

Magdk synergises best with meele why would you want to go ranged? You can absolutely go ranged in pvp but your whole class is build around dominance in meele range and this is where magdk shines and it has everything to force others to be meele. Also only 2/10 specs are viable ranged, magsorc and magnb.

No one cares for burst in PvE, you care about high ST damage but burst is only wanted in pvp and Magdk actually has good burst/ pressure+ burst.
Max burst from a magdk is: heavy attack + leap + FoO+ drain essence explosion + power whip. Also all damage from Magdks is 25% stronger again the majority of Cyrodiil which is like a permanent major berserk (strongest damage buff in the game)

Anyone saying magdk is weak in pve or PvP after this patch is ignoring the reality.
Stop spreading false information because you lack the ability to keep up with the class because it is very strong and is one of the specs that could turn op with just some small changes.


MagDK is not weak not at all neither in pve nor PvP

All you're doing is clogging this thread. None of your discussions are constructive. All you do is yell and rage at people. How do you expect the Devs to do anything for StamDK if they have to wade through this stuff? Seriously, go back and re-read all of your comments; all you do is bicker with anyone you have even a remote disagreement with. Please stop clogging this thread with garbage.

I don't yell at any i just lay down facts, and if people spread wrong information i will disagree with them and correct them.

Everything from the comment you quoted is there to correct people from spreading wrong information and to prevent that there are wrong decissions made by the Devs because they get feedback from players who are not good enough to give good Feedback

You can't stop everyone from giving their feedback though, whether you think it good feedback or bad. But you don't need to respond to every single feedback post with your rebuttal--it's just clogging up the thread.

Kilandros wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

I wrote this in another DK thread and I don't mind writing it again since it is still relevant:

Mag DK DD predominantly in PvE have the following drawbacks:

- stuck with no class sustain or passive regen outside a battle roar that is now nerfed into minimal levels (this was before Combustion change, which is a small sustain buff. A small one)
- stuck with no mobility whatsoever outside a gap closer (still true, though the Psijic skill will at least grant you a few secs of expedition, but it's not a class skill)
- stuck with no execute whatsoever (still true, can't even access an execute in non-class skills)
- stuck with gimping itself with heavy armor and/or sword/shield simply for a modicum of survival in pvp (magDK has little to no defense in PvP outside blocking, which usually requires heavy armor and/or S&B)
- stuck with one of the lowest dps potentials in PvE (before recent changes. Mag will get stronger this patch, mostly because of changes to set items, and because of (needed) nerfs to stam damage in trials/dungeons. MagDK get no specific class damage buffs this patch, other than the slight sustain increase. At best they will be as good DDs as mNB and mSorc)
- stuck with melee range in both pvp and pve But then there's this. A huge drawback. Stam always cry that they need larger damage because they are melee based and in higher risk. Well so is the mDK. All our class skills for damage are melee based, breath, embers, whip, even inhale. Why should stam get a damage boost for being handicaped by melee range and mDKs shouldn't?)
- stuck with little burst and all DoTs - which are both healable and purge/cleansable (and this handicaps mDKs even further. In a PvE environment, especially newer trials and dungeons, burst is everything. Bosses come with phases you need to burst down ASAP or get wiped, or invulnerable phases where you have to burst heavy damage in between. DoTs are a huge handicap in many PvE vet environments, and the class suffers for having little burst compared to other classes, especially lacking an execute. In PvP the mDK also is handicaped not only by the lack of mobility and being forced into melee ranged, but all the DoTs are easily outhealed or downright purged. The mDK has other abilities that somewhat make up for it, but truth is that in PvP you're still absolutely dependant on combos involving proc'ing power lashes and timing your ultis in order to make kills, as applying DoTs and using spamables without the necessary burst isn't going to take down most people.

These are still the issues with mDK, and while we are seeing some improvement this patch, the improvements are largely nothing to do with the DK class itself (addition of psijic skill line, staves counting as 2 set items, nerf of stamina damage in general etc), and the Combustion buff is a small helping hand at best.

No one needs mobility investment in pve. You can do every PvE content with the mobility you have without any speedbuff etc. Mobility is only needed in PvP and there it is fine as soon as we get snare immunity on reflective plate.
No one needs that execute in PvE as long as you can still pull enough damage which Magdk does this patch it's a viable Meele DD no need to add an execute which no one would use in PvP as already have a hard time fitting all needed skills on your bar
Light armor magdk is not squishy at all. Play @DDuke s build and wreck people with high damage and good survivability. When you need HA to survive you just need to rethink your build or skill level.

Magdk synergises best with meele why would you want to go ranged? You can absolutely go ranged in pvp but your whole class is build around dominance in meele range and this is where magdk shines and it has everything to force others to be meele. Also only 2/10 specs are viable ranged, magsorc and magnb.

No one cares for burst in PvE, you care about high ST damage but burst is only wanted in pvp and Magdk actually has good burst/ pressure+ burst.
Max burst from a magdk is: heavy attack + leap + FoO+ drain essence explosion + power whip. Also all damage from Magdks is 25% stronger again the majority of Cyrodiil which is like a permanent major berserk (strongest damage buff in the game)

Anyone saying magdk is weak in pve or PvP after this patch is ignoring the reality.
Stop spreading false information because you lack the ability to keep up with the class because it is very strong and is one of the specs that could turn op with just some small changes.


MagDK is not weak not at all neither in pve nor PvP

All you're doing is clogging this thread. None of your discussions are constructive. All you do is yell and rage at people. How do you expect the Devs to do anything for StamDK if they have to wade through this stuff? Seriously, go back and re-read all of your comments; all you do is bicker with anyone you have even a remote disagreement with. Please stop clogging this thread with garbage.

I don't yell at any i just lay down facts, and if people spread wrong information i will disagree with them and correct them.

Everything from the comment you quoted is there to correct people from spreading wrong information and to prevent that there are wrong decissions made by the Devs because they get feedback from players who are not good enough to give good Feedback

You can't stop everyone from giving their feedback though, whether you think it good feedback or bad. But you don't need to respond to every single feedback post with your rebuttal--it's just clogging up the thread.

Well aren't you trying to stop me from giving Feedback aswell? I won't stop to correct every single bit of false information that is spread on the forums and i will never stop to fight for what i believe is good for the game but i don't stick to my positions if a very good can convince me that I'm wrong but there are not many of those good players here on the forums.

BohnT

Carbonised wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

I wrote this in another DK thread and I don't mind writing it again since it is still relevant:

Mag DK DD predominantly in PvE have the following drawbacks:

- stuck with no class sustain or passive regen outside a battle roar that is now nerfed into minimal levels (this was before Combustion change, which is a small sustain buff. A small one)
- stuck with no mobility whatsoever outside a gap closer (still true, though the Psijic skill will at least grant you a few secs of expedition, but it's not a class skill)
- stuck with no execute whatsoever (still true, can't even access an execute in non-class skills)
- stuck with gimping itself with heavy armor and/or sword/shield simply for a modicum of survival in pvp (magDK has little to no defense in PvP outside blocking, which usually requires heavy armor and/or S&B)
- stuck with one of the lowest dps potentials in PvE (before recent changes. Mag will get stronger this patch, mostly because of changes to set items, and because of (needed) nerfs to stam damage in trials/dungeons. MagDK get no specific class damage buffs this patch, other than the slight sustain increase. At best they will be as good DDs as mNB and mSorc)
- stuck with melee range in both pvp and pve But then there's this. A huge drawback. Stam always cry that they need larger damage because they are melee based and in higher risk. Well so is the mDK. All our class skills for damage are melee based, breath, embers, whip, even inhale. Why should stam get a damage boost for being handicaped by melee range and mDKs shouldn't?)
- stuck with little burst and all DoTs - which are both healable and purge/cleansable (and this handicaps mDKs even further. In a PvE environment, especially newer trials and dungeons, burst is everything. Bosses come with phases you need to burst down ASAP or get wiped, or invulnerable phases where you have to burst heavy damage in between. DoTs are a huge handicap in many PvE vet environments, and the class suffers for having little burst compared to other classes, especially lacking an execute. In PvP the mDK also is handicaped not only by the lack of mobility and being forced into melee ranged, but all the DoTs are easily outhealed or downright purged. The mDK has other abilities that somewhat make up for it, but truth is that in PvP you're still absolutely dependant on combos involving proc'ing power lashes and timing your ultis in order to make kills, as applying DoTs and using spamables without the necessary burst isn't going to take down most people.

These are still the issues with mDK, and while we are seeing some improvement this patch, the improvements are largely nothing to do with the DK class itself (addition of psijic skill line, staves counting as 2 set items, nerf of stamina damage in general etc), and the Combustion buff is a small helping hand at best.

No one needs mobility investment in pve. You can do every PvE content with the mobility you have without any speedbuff etc. Mobility is only needed in PvP and there it is fine as soon as we get snare immunity on reflective plate.
No one needs that execute in PvE as long as you can still pull enough damage which Magdk does this patch it's a viable Meele DD no need to add an execute which no one would use in PvP as already have a hard time fitting all needed skills on your bar
Light armor magdk is not squishy at all. Play @DDuke s build and wreck people with high damage and good survivability. When you need HA to survive you just need to rethink your build or skill level.

Magdk synergises best with meele why would you want to go ranged? You can absolutely go ranged in pvp but your whole class is build around dominance in meele range and this is where magdk shines and it has everything to force others to be meele. Also only 2/10 specs are viable ranged, magsorc and magnb.

No one cares for burst in PvE, you care about high ST damage but burst is only wanted in pvp and Magdk actually has good burst/ pressure+ burst.
Max burst from a magdk is: heavy attack + leap + FoO+ drain essence explosion + power whip. Also all damage from Magdks is 25% stronger again the majority of Cyrodiil which is like a permanent major berserk (strongest damage buff in the game)

Anyone saying magdk is weak in pve or PvP after this patch is ignoring the reality.
Stop spreading false information because you lack the ability to keep up with the class because it is very strong and is one of the specs that could turn op with just some small changes.


MagDK is not weak not at all neither in pve nor PvP

All you're doing is clogging this thread. None of your discussions are constructive. All you do is yell and rage at people. How do you expect the Devs to do anything for StamDK if they have to wade through this stuff? Seriously, go back and re-read all of your comments; all you do is bicker with anyone you have even a remote disagreement with. Please stop clogging this thread with garbage.

I don't yell at any i just lay down facts, and if people spread wrong information i will disagree with them and correct them.

Everything from the comment you quoted is there to correct people from spreading wrong information and to prevent that there are wrong decissions made by the Devs because they get feedback from players who are not good enough to give good Feedback

Your "job" is not to "correct" anyone who happens to disagree with you.

@Kilandros is absolutely right, you're acting as if this thread is your own personal domain and you have to consent or condone anything anyone else writes here. The mods have already intervened twice and deleted your posts and asked for a more constructive dialogue. I'm assuming the only reason they haven't downright closed the thread is because it's an official feedback one.

Give your own feedback if you like, but quit reacting to everything that you happen to not agree with. This thread is a sorry mess for any dev to read, and I wouldn't blame them for ignoring it altogether.

It's my principle to stop every form of imbalance and false information that is spread on the forums and i will continue doing so if you disagree you can do the same.
#stamspammableforDK

caperon

But everyone will have spammable next patch. Its called Imbued Weapons or something. Its almost a surprise atack.

venomsky

ZoM_Head wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Earthen Heart

• Ash Cloud: This ability now heals you and your allies in the area and snares enemies; note the Eruption morph remains unchanged.
• Cinder Storm (Ash Cloud morph): This morph now increases the healing done.

This ability is a mess btw. There are already way too many heals in this game, that goes for all classes, but especially the magDK did not need another lackluster aoe heal over time.

First of all, let's just look at how many DK class skill already have a heal attached:

1. Obsidian Shard
2. Flame/Power Lash
3. Burning Ember
4. Cauterize
5. Dragon Blood
6. Inhale
7. And now also Cinder Storm

This class absolutely did not need a 7th healing skill. We also did not need more snares to become focus. The MagDK already has plenty of snares and roots, and slapping a lackluster, slow heal on an AoE snare doesn't make it any more appealing. What we did need, though, was an AoE DoT in your class kit that was at least somewhat unique and useful, like Liquid Lightning, Path of Darkness and Shards/Ritual. Those are class AoE DoTs with interesting secondary effects.

Eruption? Costs are higher than other, similar class AoEs, damage is much lower, and the only secondary effect is snare, of which we already have too many in this game, and especially as MagDKs. The only reason you use it on a magDK PvE rotation is because you have little else to put on your bar, it has somewhat long duration and is very much fire-and-forget, plus it procs for a bit of ult gain.

What you should have done was given Eruption more initial damage and slightly higher DoT ticks, lowering the costs to make cost/damage similar to other class AoE skills, while giving Cinder Storm no initial damage, less damage DoT ticks and a secondary effect such as major evasion to the DK and maybe minor evasion to allies while they are all standing in the AoE.

That would have made for some interesting choice between damage and utility/defense, and made this a strong class skill. Instead you slapped a useless HoT on a morph no one uses on a class that had 6 other class healing skills and called it a day.

This is a do-over.

Looks like they are trying to make "all classes are able to dps, heal and tank" again, while i appreciate the idea, no one in the right mind, in the real world, will play a mDK healer, even in vet dungeons. Warden or maybe a Sorc or NB will be far more effective.

Sigh, whatever happened to just sitting down and actually thinking about skills properly, instead of just throwing ideas around wildly?

none of this healing skills cost stamina,ty wrobel !!

kojou

I run Magicka DK in PvE and Stamina DK in PvP... well technically I've been running Stamina Warden in PvP lately, and will probably continue to do so until ZOS nerfs their burst capability. I used to run Stamina DK in PvP though.

In PvE Magicka DK has Burning Spellweave that has a synergy with the new combustion passive and I like that. I assume that this can be used in PvP as well, but I'll leave that to those that still DK in PvP. For my DPS the additional magicka is much needed. I would like it to be more, but keep in mind on a trials DPS build you are only going to have 900 to ~1300 (witchmothers) regen anyway so 200 magicka every 2 seconds is 15-20% buff to regen (Nightblades "only" get 15% in their passives). Over a 3 minute fight that translates to 6000 more magicka (~3 more whips). I would like it to be more and would have preferred a buff to battle roar instead, but at least we got some additional sustain. In my dummy tests I could feel the difference.

For my tank the new combustion passive might be pretty helpful. I wonder if DK tanks will start back-barring a poison glyph or applying venomous claw for more stamina back while blocking. I will be looking for ways to proc the poison effect while tanking...

Non of the changes are enough to get me back on Stamina DK in PvP though. Warden burst and healing is strong and in general is still much more rewarding to play.

Bodycounter

Can you guys finally stop quoting every single post you disagree with just to write the same things over and over again without any new input? Half of this thread reads like children arguing about something minor. And stop quoting full long ass posts just to write a single or two sentences beneath. You can quote the part you‘re referring to.

This thread was made to give your own feedback on the planned changes to the Dragonknight and not to make everyone have to accept your opinion. I feel sorry for the Devs, who have to go through this sorry mess of a feedback thread. It‘s really not that easy to balance abilities around people, that don‘t acknowledge every potential playstyle of the Dragonknight and only argue - pointing at the sDK PvP base - from single point of view.

BohnT

Bodycounter wrote: »

Can you guys finally stop quoting every single post you disagree with just to write the same things over and over again without any new input? Half of this thread reads like children arguing about something minor. And stop quoting full long ass posts just to write a single or two sentences beneath. You can quote the part you‘re referring to.

This thread was made to give your own feedback on the planned changes to the Dragonknight and not to make everyone have to accept your opinion. I feel sorry for the Devs, who have to go through this sorry mess of a feedback thread. It‘s really not that easy to balance abilities around people, that don‘t acknowledge every potential playstyle of the Dragonknight and only argue - pointing at the sDK PvP base - from single point of view.

sDK needs much more love than magdk.
One is viable and the other isn't also most Feedback from the stamdks here is always done in mind to not mess up magdks and if it does you can bet that there will be people pointing this out.

Also ofc things repeat over and over again because there are Pain points which need to be changed and the more people bring this up in this post the more likely it is that the Devs will acknowledge it.

#stamspammableforDK

Bodycounter

Noone in this thread is disagreeing that sDKs are underperforming. Several people mentioned that. But it‘s just repetitive, when the same person mentions it a dozen times.

Anethum

Bodycounter wrote: »

Noone in this thread is disagreeing that sDKs are underperforming. Several people mentioned that. But it‘s just repetitive, when the same person mentions it a dozen times.

idk, i feel our ask to buff stamdk is stil not enouch illuminated. its feedback, stamdk in summerset on pts is also very weak with pain sides, which we want to discuss and change

BohnT

Some bugs related to Leap are still in the game:
It won't fire off most of the time when lag is involved or players are using LoS short after you activated the ability.
Leap often fails to damage players which are still in its radius, the game just gives you a 0 damage value for the leap and you lost your ultimate.
It's still possible to cloak, dodge, streak and walk out of the leap area especially with lag involved.
You can still be rooted and CC'd while using leap which translates to a complete loss of the ultimate.

Ragnarock41

Xvorg wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

I'm glad noxious is not dodgeable. However its still a very weak dot and I found I didn't notice the benefits of the debuff all that much.

Noxious should be line Necromancer's poison nova from Diablo II



And you know what was good about poison nova? It was spammable

Kind of funny we were just playing diablo 2 with friends yesterday, and now I'm suprised that I never ever considered this as a possibility lol.