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Counter to bleed builds?
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Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Karmanorway wrote: »Two questions :
Is slotting one ability (twin slashes) on a dual wield bar what we are calling a "bleed build" ?Hurricane, twin slashes, rearming trap, bloodthirst, ballista dead. 5 second fight, had both hardened ward + annulment with imperial physique buff ...
I you think "bleed build" is the strongest setup for a stam character and you are using a stam character, why not use a "bleed build" yourself ? You stop having an unfair fight and it eventually get nerfed for the sake of game diversity, double win.A 1v1 against a competent opponent with a bleed build isn't something you'll win on non nb stam specs
If they use blood drinker on top of that + master weapons then yeah. Why would i play something that dont require skill? When i pvp i do it to get better, not pressing 1 button and let my sets do the rest.
Edit: Bleed/dot with defile builds IS the strongest, but please prove me wrong
actually you don't need blooddrinker at all.0 -
Aznox✭✭✭✭✭Karmanorway wrote: »If they use blood drinker on top of that + master weapons then yeah.
I use none of that, and yet i get called out everyday for my "bleed build", so ...?Why would i play something that dont require skill? When i pvp i do it to get better, not pressing 1 button and let my sets do the rest.
Using an "easy" build can be a very good way to get better, leaving you "brain time" to use on other things like spatial awareness, positioning, reading your opponents, etc..Bleed/dot with defile builds IS the strongest, but please prove me wrong
Bleed/dot = resource efficient pressure
Defile = resource efficient pressure
You can't make a pressure build work without Defile, and yes a strong setup is made with the strongest components
I was already using such a setup 6+ months ago when everyone was saying "go Two handed, Dual wield is useless for PvP, you need a gap closer and forward momentum [...]"
So you don't need to convince, me i use it because i think it's strong.
However i feel like this thread is the "Tanky and Burst" meta getting caught up by the "Resource efficient Pressure" meta, acting all surprised : "How is that our way is not the only way anymore ?" "I don't wan't to adapt, please send help!"
I might be wrong though
Aznox
PC EU
Khajiit Orc Bosmer Stamina Sorcerer and Werewolf Stage 3 Vampire
I live in Battlegrounds
Theorycrafting enthusiast
Official Cheese Lord
CP1500+ club7 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Stop saying that stamwarden and stamsorc bleedbuild are OP. Stamblade are the OP one according to the forumwarriors.
Nice miss-direction. That's because they are, only closely matched by StamDens.
Have you tried a bleed build on a heavy armour StamBlade with troll king? I'm guessing not. They nasty af. And they can still disengage at will, thanks to cloak+shade. With superior burst damage to that of StamSorcs.
StamSorc is basically forced to play bleed (i.e. DoT) and defile builds, because it's the only thing remotely competitive on the class with no burst damage. No Incap+Grim Focus, no Sub Assault+DBoS, no PotL+DBoS. For StamSorc, DBoS is literally the only available burst skill and that's a 125 cost ultimate on a class without Major Heroism and practically no Minor/Major buffs outside of what Weapons Skills provide. What's a StamSorc to do, if not build for Bleeds/DoTs?
StamSorc is a bit like a StamDK, with physical instead of poisons DoTs. Only with worse in-fight sustain (no Battle Roar or Helping Hands), tankiness and CCs, but with more DoT damage and more movement. Both still bottom of the stam pile due to lack of burst outside of ult and with no build variance.
StamBlade in the meantime, can play a bleed build as well as any StamSorc. But it can also play roly-poly dodge+cloak build, racking up large K/D ratios. Or sniper-ganker build. Or basically any stamina build conceivable. And still be the best at them all, or at worse second best.
Edited by Maulkin on April 16, 2018 11:02AMEU | PC | AD2 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stop saying that stamwarden and stamsorc bleedbuild are OP. Stamblade are the OP one according to the forumwarriors.
Nice miss-direction. That's because they are, only closely matched by StamDens.
Have you tried a bleed build on a heavy armour StamBlade with troll king? I'm guessing not. They nasty af. And they can still disengage at will, thanks to cloak+shade. With superior burst damage to that of StamSorcs.
StamSorc is basically forced to play bleed (i.e. DoT) and defile builds, because it's the only thing remotely competitive on the class with no burst damage. No Incap+Grim Focus, no Sub Assault+DBoS, no PotL+DBoS. For StamSorc, DBoS is literally the only available burst skill and that's a 125 cost ultimate on a class without Major Heroism and practically no Minor/Major buffs outside of what Weapons Skills provide. What's a StamSorc to do, if not build for Bleeds/DoTs?
StamSorc is a bit like a StamDK, with physical instead of poisons DoTs. Only with worse in-fight sustain (no Battle Roar or Helping Hands), tankiness and CCs, but with more DoT damage and more movement. Both still bottom of the stam pile due to lack of burst outside of ult and with no build variance.
StamBlade in the meantime, can play a bleed build as well as any StamSorc. But it can also play roly-poly dodge+cloak build, racking up large K/D ratios. Or sniper-ganker build. Or basically any stamina build conceivable. And still be the best at them all, or at worse second best.
I do not agree with stam sorc having worse sustain. StamDK is worse because it does not have readily accessible Dark Deal which converts magicka to stam much more efficiently than any other DK builds can do and best of all, you can save ult for the right time at all times unlike DK. But on other parts, I agree.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel1 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭When I see nerf threads all I picture in my head is some arrogant millennial who whos "CATCH MY BUILD BRO" got crapped on and instead of just enjoying the game they come here to the forums to ***.
Games the most diverse its ever been in terms of builds, not everyone is "LITERALLY RUNNING BLEED BUILDS" or bleeds are "LITERALLY MOST EFFECTIVE".
Figure it out or take your ball and foh.
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Karmanorway✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »When I see nerf threads all I picture in my head is some arrogant millennial who whos "CATCH MY BUILD BRO" got crapped on and instead of just enjoying the game they come here to the forums to ***.
Games the most diverse its ever been in terms of builds, not everyone is "LITERALLY RUNNING BLEED BUILDS" or bleeds are "LITERALLY MOST EFFECTIVE".
Figure it out or take your ball and foh.
L2read , im asking for counters, not nerfs0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭IZZEFlameLash wrote: »Stop saying that stamwarden and stamsorc bleedbuild are OP. Stamblade are the OP one according to the forumwarriors.
Nice miss-direction. That's because they are, only closely matched by StamDens.
Have you tried a bleed build on a heavy armour StamBlade with troll king? I'm guessing not. They nasty af. And they can still disengage at will, thanks to cloak+shade. With superior burst damage to that of StamSorcs.
StamSorc is basically forced to play bleed (i.e. DoT) and defile builds, because it's the only thing remotely competitive on the class with no burst damage. No Incap+Grim Focus, no Sub Assault+DBoS, no PotL+DBoS. For StamSorc, DBoS is literally the only available burst skill and that's a 125 cost ultimate on a class without Major Heroism and practically no Minor/Major buffs outside of what Weapons Skills provide. What's a StamSorc to do, if not build for Bleeds/DoTs?
StamSorc is a bit like a StamDK, with physical instead of poisons DoTs. Only with worse in-fight sustain (no Battle Roar or Helping Hands), tankiness and CCs, but with more DoT damage and more movement. Both still bottom of the stam pile due to lack of burst outside of ult and with no build variance.
StamBlade in the meantime, can play a bleed build as well as any StamSorc. But it can also play roly-poly dodge+cloak build, racking up large K/D ratios. Or sniper-ganker build. Or basically any stamina build conceivable. And still be the best at them all, or at worse second best.
I do not agree with stam sorc having worse sustain. StamDK is worse because it does not have readily accessible Dark Deal which converts magicka to stam much more efficiently than any other DK builds can do and best of all, you can save ult for the right time at all times unlike DK. But on other parts, I agree.
I said "in-combat" sustain. Dark Deal is not really in-combat. You do it in-combat, you die. You have to Streak out and do it.
If you're running low on stam, then casting it in front of your opponents face (you're a melee build, after all) will result in you taking a LA+Skill+bash to the face. Spending even more stam (that you probably don't have, since that's the resource you're trying to recoup in the first place) to CC break.
Then you have to wait for the 2 seconds CD before you can even cast it again and another 1.1" of cast-time. All the while taking damage and running low on resources. That's incredibly punishing in a no-CP environment with cost increase poisons. CC break when cost-poisoned will cost way more than your Dark Deal will return.
Dark Deal is great if you can buy moments out of combat. But in the heat of battle, Battle Roar from a 110 cost ult is better imo.
EU | PC | AD4 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭IZZEFlameLash wrote: »Stop saying that stamwarden and stamsorc bleedbuild are OP. Stamblade are the OP one according to the forumwarriors.
Nice miss-direction. That's because they are, only closely matched by StamDens.
Have you tried a bleed build on a heavy armour StamBlade with troll king? I'm guessing not. They nasty af. And they can still disengage at will, thanks to cloak+shade. With superior burst damage to that of StamSorcs.
StamSorc is basically forced to play bleed (i.e. DoT) and defile builds, because it's the only thing remotely competitive on the class with no burst damage. No Incap+Grim Focus, no Sub Assault+DBoS, no PotL+DBoS. For StamSorc, DBoS is literally the only available burst skill and that's a 125 cost ultimate on a class without Major Heroism and practically no Minor/Major buffs outside of what Weapons Skills provide. What's a StamSorc to do, if not build for Bleeds/DoTs?
StamSorc is a bit like a StamDK, with physical instead of poisons DoTs. Only with worse in-fight sustain (no Battle Roar or Helping Hands), tankiness and CCs, but with more DoT damage and more movement. Both still bottom of the stam pile due to lack of burst outside of ult and with no build variance.
StamBlade in the meantime, can play a bleed build as well as any StamSorc. But it can also play roly-poly dodge+cloak build, racking up large K/D ratios. Or sniper-ganker build. Or basically any stamina build conceivable. And still be the best at them all, or at worse second best.
I do not agree with stam sorc having worse sustain. StamDK is worse because it does not have readily accessible Dark Deal which converts magicka to stam much more efficiently than any other DK builds can do and best of all, you can save ult for the right time at all times unlike DK. But on other parts, I agree.
I said "in-combat" sustain. Dark Deal is not really in-combat. You do it in-combat, you die. You have to Streak out and do it.
If you're running low on stam, then casting it in front of your opponents face (you're a melee build, after all) will result in you taking a LA+Skill+bash to the face. Spending even more stam (that you probably don't have, since that's the resource you're trying to recoup in the first place) to CC break.
Then you have to wait for the 2 seconds CD before you can even cast it again and another 1.1" of cast-time. All the while taking damage and running low on resources. That's incredibly punishing in a no-CP environment with cost increase poisons. CC break when cost-poisoned will cost way more than your Dark Deal will return.
Dark Deal is great if you can buy moments out of combat. But in the heat of battle, Battle Roar from a 110 cost ult is better imo.
to be honest adrenaline rush by itself probably helps out more than battle roar. Stamsorc has it much better when it comes to sustain, and the interrupt changes to dark deal definitely made a difference.
If stamDK also had a %20 stam/hp regen passive, I would say that stamDk has the edge, but since that is not the case, stamsorc clearly is the winner.Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 16, 2018 12:42PM0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »IZZEFlameLash wrote: »Stop saying that stamwarden and stamsorc bleedbuild are OP. Stamblade are the OP one according to the forumwarriors.
Nice miss-direction. That's because they are, only closely matched by StamDens.
Have you tried a bleed build on a heavy armour StamBlade with troll king? I'm guessing not. They nasty af. And they can still disengage at will, thanks to cloak+shade. With superior burst damage to that of StamSorcs.
StamSorc is basically forced to play bleed (i.e. DoT) and defile builds, because it's the only thing remotely competitive on the class with no burst damage. No Incap+Grim Focus, no Sub Assault+DBoS, no PotL+DBoS. For StamSorc, DBoS is literally the only available burst skill and that's a 125 cost ultimate on a class without Major Heroism and practically no Minor/Major buffs outside of what Weapons Skills provide. What's a StamSorc to do, if not build for Bleeds/DoTs?
StamSorc is a bit like a StamDK, with physical instead of poisons DoTs. Only with worse in-fight sustain (no Battle Roar or Helping Hands), tankiness and CCs, but with more DoT damage and more movement. Both still bottom of the stam pile due to lack of burst outside of ult and with no build variance.
StamBlade in the meantime, can play a bleed build as well as any StamSorc. But it can also play roly-poly dodge+cloak build, racking up large K/D ratios. Or sniper-ganker build. Or basically any stamina build conceivable. And still be the best at them all, or at worse second best.
I do not agree with stam sorc having worse sustain. StamDK is worse because it does not have readily accessible Dark Deal which converts magicka to stam much more efficiently than any other DK builds can do and best of all, you can save ult for the right time at all times unlike DK. But on other parts, I agree.
I said "in-combat" sustain. Dark Deal is not really in-combat. You do it in-combat, you die. You have to Streak out and do it.
If you're running low on stam, then casting it in front of your opponents face (you're a melee build, after all) will result in you taking a LA+Skill+bash to the face. Spending even more stam (that you probably don't have, since that's the resource you're trying to recoup in the first place) to CC break.
Then you have to wait for the 2 seconds CD before you can even cast it again and another 1.1" of cast-time. All the while taking damage and running low on resources. That's incredibly punishing in a no-CP environment with cost increase poisons. CC break when cost-poisoned will cost way more than your Dark Deal will return.
Dark Deal is great if you can buy moments out of combat. But in the heat of battle, Battle Roar from a 110 cost ult is better imo.
to be honest adrenalina rush by itself probably helps out more than battle roar. Stamsorc has it much better when it comes to sustain, and the interrupt changes to dark deal definitely made a difference.
But If stamDK also had a %20 stam/hp regen passive, I would say that stamDk has the edge, but since that is not the case, stamsorc clearly is the winner.
Don't forget 5% cost reduction
0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »IZZEFlameLash wrote: »Stop saying that stamwarden and stamsorc bleedbuild are OP. Stamblade are the OP one according to the forumwarriors.
Nice miss-direction. That's because they are, only closely matched by StamDens.
Have you tried a bleed build on a heavy armour StamBlade with troll king? I'm guessing not. They nasty af. And they can still disengage at will, thanks to cloak+shade. With superior burst damage to that of StamSorcs.
StamSorc is basically forced to play bleed (i.e. DoT) and defile builds, because it's the only thing remotely competitive on the class with no burst damage. No Incap+Grim Focus, no Sub Assault+DBoS, no PotL+DBoS. For StamSorc, DBoS is literally the only available burst skill and that's a 125 cost ultimate on a class without Major Heroism and practically no Minor/Major buffs outside of what Weapons Skills provide. What's a StamSorc to do, if not build for Bleeds/DoTs?
StamSorc is a bit like a StamDK, with physical instead of poisons DoTs. Only with worse in-fight sustain (no Battle Roar or Helping Hands), tankiness and CCs, but with more DoT damage and more movement. Both still bottom of the stam pile due to lack of burst outside of ult and with no build variance.
StamBlade in the meantime, can play a bleed build as well as any StamSorc. But it can also play roly-poly dodge+cloak build, racking up large K/D ratios. Or sniper-ganker build. Or basically any stamina build conceivable. And still be the best at them all, or at worse second best.
I do not agree with stam sorc having worse sustain. StamDK is worse because it does not have readily accessible Dark Deal which converts magicka to stam much more efficiently than any other DK builds can do and best of all, you can save ult for the right time at all times unlike DK. But on other parts, I agree.
I said "in-combat" sustain. Dark Deal is not really in-combat. You do it in-combat, you die. You have to Streak out and do it.
If you're running low on stam, then casting it in front of your opponents face (you're a melee build, after all) will result in you taking a LA+Skill+bash to the face. Spending even more stam (that you probably don't have, since that's the resource you're trying to recoup in the first place) to CC break.
Then you have to wait for the 2 seconds CD before you can even cast it again and another 1.1" of cast-time. All the while taking damage and running low on resources. That's incredibly punishing in a no-CP environment with cost increase poisons. CC break when cost-poisoned will cost way more than your Dark Deal will return.
Dark Deal is great if you can buy moments out of combat. But in the heat of battle, Battle Roar from a 110 cost ult is better imo.
to be honest adrenalina rush by itself probably helps out more than battle roar. Stamsorc has it much better when it comes to sustain, and the interrupt changes to dark deal definitely made a difference.
But If stamDK also had a %20 stam/hp regen passive, I would say that stamDk has the edge, but since that is not the case, stamsorc clearly is the winner.
Don't forget 5% cost reduction
and the %8 extra max stamina, and the ult cost reduction...
yeah, definitely stamsorc has nothing over stamDk. We got that juuuuicy battle roar right? Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 16, 2018 12:43PM0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »IZZEFlameLash wrote: »Stop saying that stamwarden and stamsorc bleedbuild are OP. Stamblade are the OP one according to the forumwarriors.
Nice miss-direction. That's because they are, only closely matched by StamDens.
Have you tried a bleed build on a heavy armour StamBlade with troll king? I'm guessing not. They nasty af. And they can still disengage at will, thanks to cloak+shade. With superior burst damage to that of StamSorcs.
StamSorc is basically forced to play bleed (i.e. DoT) and defile builds, because it's the only thing remotely competitive on the class with no burst damage. No Incap+Grim Focus, no Sub Assault+DBoS, no PotL+DBoS. For StamSorc, DBoS is literally the only available burst skill and that's a 125 cost ultimate on a class without Major Heroism and practically no Minor/Major buffs outside of what Weapons Skills provide. What's a StamSorc to do, if not build for Bleeds/DoTs?
StamSorc is a bit like a StamDK, with physical instead of poisons DoTs. Only with worse in-fight sustain (no Battle Roar or Helping Hands), tankiness and CCs, but with more DoT damage and more movement. Both still bottom of the stam pile due to lack of burst outside of ult and with no build variance.
StamBlade in the meantime, can play a bleed build as well as any StamSorc. But it can also play roly-poly dodge+cloak build, racking up large K/D ratios. Or sniper-ganker build. Or basically any stamina build conceivable. And still be the best at them all, or at worse second best.
I do not agree with stam sorc having worse sustain. StamDK is worse because it does not have readily accessible Dark Deal which converts magicka to stam much more efficiently than any other DK builds can do and best of all, you can save ult for the right time at all times unlike DK. But on other parts, I agree.
I said "in-combat" sustain. Dark Deal is not really in-combat. You do it in-combat, you die. You have to Streak out and do it.
If you're running low on stam, then casting it in front of your opponents face (you're a melee build, after all) will result in you taking a LA+Skill+bash to the face. Spending even more stam (that you probably don't have, since that's the resource you're trying to recoup in the first place) to CC break.
Then you have to wait for the 2 seconds CD before you can even cast it again and another 1.1" of cast-time. All the while taking damage and running low on resources. That's incredibly punishing in a no-CP environment with cost increase poisons. CC break when cost-poisoned will cost way more than your Dark Deal will return.
Dark Deal is great if you can buy moments out of combat. But in the heat of battle, Battle Roar from a 110 cost ult is better imo.
to be honest adrenalina rush by itself probably helps out more than battle roar. Stamsorc has it much better when it comes to sustain, and the interrupt changes to dark deal definitely made a difference.
But If stamDK also had a %20 stam/hp regen passive, I would say that stamDk has the edge, but since that is not the case, stamsorc clearly is the winner.
Don't forget 5% cost reduction
and the %8 extra max stamina, and the ult cost reduction... yeah, definitely stamsorc has nothing over stamDk. We got that juuuuicy battle roar right?
Don't push it.
8% extra stam (Bound Armaments) is not a passive, it requires two slots at the minute. Which is entirely non-viable outside of PvE or specific duel builds.
15% ult cost reduction brings DBoS cost from 125 down to 106. It's also the only usable ult for StamSorc as the rest are completely rubbish... outside of maybe Ballista if you run bow. The 110 cost Take Flight is up quicker than a 106 DBoS if you use an Earthen Heart ability once every 20", not to mention hit harder and knock back instead of down. There's a reason no StamDK uses DBoS.
The 5% cost reduction and 20% stam regen buff are indeed very nice. And StamSorc certainly has a better ability to reset stats with Dark Deal if he can buy some "alone time". I wouldn't argue otherwise. But I'm not sure that the math supports them to be stronger than Helping Hands + Battle Roar combined when in the midst of combat.
Edited by Maulkin on April 16, 2018 1:46PMEU | PC | AD3 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Karmanorway wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »When I see nerf threads all I picture in my head is some arrogant millennial who whos "CATCH MY BUILD BRO" got crapped on and instead of just enjoying the game they come here to the forums to ***.
Games the most diverse its ever been in terms of builds, not everyone is "LITERALLY RUNNING BLEED BUILDS" or bleeds are "LITERALLY MOST EFFECTIVE".
Figure it out or take your ball and foh.
L2read , im asking for counters, not nerfs
You must have missed the conversation on this thread, because an open ended reply that was not particularly aimed at anyone clearly tugs at your heart strings.
These forums are notorious for thinly veiled nerfs this thread is no different because you are not policing it.
I'll help, be "productive",
Check this out folks, Replenishing Barrier, Major/Minor protection, snares usually help with kiting away from a bleed build to land a stun; do your burst line, then build your ultimate up.
Most pressure builds ironically fall onto more pressure with a combination of snares/immobilize and a healthy amount of health recovery and CC.
Pure bleed builds typically lack good recovery.
1 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »IZZEFlameLash wrote: »Stop saying that stamwarden and stamsorc bleedbuild are OP. Stamblade are the OP one according to the forumwarriors.
Nice miss-direction. That's because they are, only closely matched by StamDens.
Have you tried a bleed build on a heavy armour StamBlade with troll king? I'm guessing not. They nasty af. And they can still disengage at will, thanks to cloak+shade. With superior burst damage to that of StamSorcs.
StamSorc is basically forced to play bleed (i.e. DoT) and defile builds, because it's the only thing remotely competitive on the class with no burst damage. No Incap+Grim Focus, no Sub Assault+DBoS, no PotL+DBoS. For StamSorc, DBoS is literally the only available burst skill and that's a 125 cost ultimate on a class without Major Heroism and practically no Minor/Major buffs outside of what Weapons Skills provide. What's a StamSorc to do, if not build for Bleeds/DoTs?
StamSorc is a bit like a StamDK, with physical instead of poisons DoTs. Only with worse in-fight sustain (no Battle Roar or Helping Hands), tankiness and CCs, but with more DoT damage and more movement. Both still bottom of the stam pile due to lack of burst outside of ult and with no build variance.
StamBlade in the meantime, can play a bleed build as well as any StamSorc. But it can also play roly-poly dodge+cloak build, racking up large K/D ratios. Or sniper-ganker build. Or basically any stamina build conceivable. And still be the best at them all, or at worse second best.
I do not agree with stam sorc having worse sustain. StamDK is worse because it does not have readily accessible Dark Deal which converts magicka to stam much more efficiently than any other DK builds can do and best of all, you can save ult for the right time at all times unlike DK. But on other parts, I agree.
I said "in-combat" sustain. Dark Deal is not really in-combat. You do it in-combat, you die. You have to Streak out and do it.
If you're running low on stam, then casting it in front of your opponents face (you're a melee build, after all) will result in you taking a LA+Skill+bash to the face. Spending even more stam (that you probably don't have, since that's the resource you're trying to recoup in the first place) to CC break.
Then you have to wait for the 2 seconds CD before you can even cast it again and another 1.1" of cast-time. All the while taking damage and running low on resources. That's incredibly punishing in a no-CP environment with cost increase poisons. CC break when cost-poisoned will cost way more than your Dark Deal will return.
Dark Deal is great if you can buy moments out of combat. But in the heat of battle, Battle Roar from a 110 cost ult is better imo.
to be honest adrenalina rush by itself probably helps out more than battle roar. Stamsorc has it much better when it comes to sustain, and the interrupt changes to dark deal definitely made a difference.
But If stamDK also had a %20 stam/hp regen passive, I would say that stamDk has the edge, but since that is not the case, stamsorc clearly is the winner.
Don't forget 5% cost reduction
and the %8 extra max stamina, and the ult cost reduction... yeah, definitely stamsorc has nothing over stamDk. We got that juuuuicy battle roar right?
Don't push it.
8% extra stam requires two slots at the minute. Which is entirely non-viable outside of PvE or specific duel builds.
15% ult cost reduction brings DBoS cost down to from 125 to 106. It's also the only usable ult for StamSorc as the rest are completely rubbish... outside of maybe Ballista if you run bow. The 110 cost Take Flight is up quicker than a 106 DBoS if you use an Earthen Heart ability once every 20", not to mention hit harder and knock back instead of down. There's a reason no StamDK uses DBoS.
The 5% cost reduction and 20% stam regen buff are indeed very nice. And StamSorc certainly has a better ability to reset stats with Dark Deal if he can buy some "alone time". I wouldn't argue otherwise. But I'm not sure that the math supports them to be stronger than Helping Hands + Battle Roar combined when in the midst of combat.
to be honest, if it was 106 ult I Would use DBoS over TF any day. Dks choose ults depending on their costs, Its not about what hits harder but about what is actually cost effective. If I could have a 106 cost dawnbreaker I would run it any day. I guess this is probably why take flight is at 110 ult. If it was at 125 I would simply drop it for dawnbreaker.TheBonesXXX wrote: »Karmanorway wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »When I see nerf threads all I picture in my head is some arrogant millennial who whos "CATCH MY BUILD BRO" got crapped on and instead of just enjoying the game they come here to the forums to ***.
Games the most diverse its ever been in terms of builds, not everyone is "LITERALLY RUNNING BLEED BUILDS" or bleeds are "LITERALLY MOST EFFECTIVE".
Figure it out or take your ball and foh.
L2read , im asking for counters, not nerfs
You must have missed the conversation on this thread, because an open ended reply that was not particularly aimed at anyone clearly tugs at your heart strings.
These forums are notorious for thinly veiled nerfs this thread is no different because you are not policing it.
I'll help, be "productive",
Check this out folks, Replenishing Barrier, Major/Minor protection, snares usually help with kiting away from a bleed build to land a stun; do your burst line, then build your ultimate up.
Most pressure builds ironically fall onto more pressure with a combination of snares/immobilize and a healthy amount of health recovery and CC.
Pure bleed builds typically lack good recovery.
I like how you just list classic things to do in PvP and try to sell it as counterplay. I really love how dumb the ''bleed counter'' suggestions you guys come up with.
''Killing the bleed build is surely counterplay!'' Oh, you don't say? Killing my enemy in a PvP environment, wow, now that is really a helpful tip there.
''major/minor protection reduces bleed damage'' Oh, now this is a good one. Good thing everyone and their mums are playing stamdens so they can spam permafrost non stop for mitigation Screw the rest anyways right?
''snares'' momentum exists, and so does shuffle. Also just like how you can snare that guy, he can snare you aswell. the other morph of blood craze is a very strong snare.
''build ultimate up, do your burst line'' again, you're assuming as if this bleed guy will just put bleeds on you then sit there and watch.
Bleed builds are usually played by stamsorcs or stamblades, which both happens to have extremely good sustain without even building for it.
And what annoys me is that how some people, including you, act like you're some hot *** and then type a wall of nonsense that will do absolutely nothing to a proper build with bleeds.Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 16, 2018 2:04PM0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Drakkdjinn wrote: »Bleed build Pioneer here: the hard counters are a competently played magplar, magblade & shieldspam sorc builds. You're welcome.
None of those are hard counters.
Templar can purge bleeds, but at significant cost, merely saving a few seconds during which the DoTs will be reapplied.
It's main heal is resource intensive and sweep requires melee range. Commonly relatively high resistances mean bleeds counter a significant part of the Templar's defense.
No party has a clear advantage here, it depends more on the actual builds.
NB has a clear advantage if they build for range and HoTs, not so much melee or shields. If they do take the first approach, and for some reason are able to ouheal your DoTs with just their HoTs, that could be considered a hard counter. And mostly tell us you forgot defile.
Sorc relies on shields. Although their bleed status doesn't help your DoTs here, the fact that you're fighting shields is much better anyway. Sustained pressure is the worst thing for shields (outside shieldbreaker) because HoTs don't help. Extra points if you run PotL, Crystallized Shield or Scales.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Counter pressure... That's pretty much it
Let me guess you play nightblade?
All classes which struggle against bleed builds can't counter pressure them.
Things like Stamsorc with troll king can't be pressured they have enough healing to kill you in 95% of the fights noatter how hard you'll try to pressure them.
Either you 1 shot them with will+ incap and can heal up with cloak or you play a stamclass and lose to bleed + defiles.
Literally all damage to an opponent is considered counter presure no matter what class you play
I'll just assume you are a nightblade because that's the only class that can counter pressure bleed builds as they can just heal up with cloak and then try to burst with incap.
Try it on a stamdk, stamplar, stamwarden or non bleed stamsorc. It doesn't work you can't pressure the bleed build because they are one of the specs with the most pressure.
That is rather incorrect. (I detect a tad of salt but whatever)
StamDK IS a pressure class, also corrosive armor carried one of the best stamDKs I know to victory in the Legend Tournament awhile back. Leap also does more damage than incap, still stuns, and is undodgable
Stamplar is also a pressure class and if you aren't using DW/2H with bleeds then you're probably not playing it very well
StamWarden has no issue with pressure builds cuz of shrooms and shalks
With a stamsorc you just have to use dark deal at the right time, other than that you might actually be screwedFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info1 -
Kova✭✭✭✭✭Due to my usual playstyle I'll die to bleed builds in openworld, but I'm ok with that. You can't be built against literally everything without using sets that let you turn your brain off.
But! You can be built against it specifically. Putting CP into dot defenses is the most helpful in passive terms, and poisons will give a good esge, but from a 1v1 perspective the best way to fight is to pretend you're covered in thorns.
Magicka templar should slot grothdarr and match the up close attack.
Nightblades should focus on roots if magicka, stealthy burst if stam.
Magicka dks have it the worst in my opinion. For a class that uses DoT, they are super susceptible to bleed builds because of the play style. Without going inferno staff caster, I can't see a magdk surviving long enough to take out a bleeder unless the mundus aligns a perfect ultimate combo.
As a magsorc, which is my class, I've found success with infernal guardian. This is the brainless set I mentioned earlier. If I know I'm about to 1v1 a bleeder (most likely because they whined that I zerged them down and should 1v1 them) I can root/stun them at a distance and proc infernal when I'm on the defensive. The bleeder will waste stamina avoiding the volleys and try really hard to get close, only to be rooted again.EP Sorc: Aydinn
AD Stamplar: Verdant`Knight
DC Stamblade: Apple`Punch
EP Stam Sorc: Kós
AD DragonKnight: Transmigrant
EP NIghtblade: Aydinn2 -
Aznox✭✭✭✭✭Two insightful answers in a row ... it happens !Magicka dks have it the worst in my opinion. For a class that uses DoT, they are super susceptible to bleed builds because of the play style. Without going inferno staff caster, I can't see a magdk surviving long enough to take out a bleeder unless the mundus aligns a perfect ultimate combo.
i'd add that, as a pressure build stamsorc, Magdk go from an easy matchup to a serious threat when they slot Durok's bane and embrace a high pressure style themselves.Edited by Aznox on April 16, 2018 2:33PMAznox
PC EU
Khajiit Orc Bosmer Stamina Sorcerer and Werewolf Stage 3 Vampire
I live in Battlegrounds
Theorycrafting enthusiast
Official Cheese Lord
CP1500+ club1 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »IZZEFlameLash wrote: »Stop saying that stamwarden and stamsorc bleedbuild are OP. Stamblade are the OP one according to the forumwarriors.
Nice miss-direction. That's because they are, only closely matched by StamDens.
Have you tried a bleed build on a heavy armour StamBlade with troll king? I'm guessing not. They nasty af. And they can still disengage at will, thanks to cloak+shade. With superior burst damage to that of StamSorcs.
StamSorc is basically forced to play bleed (i.e. DoT) and defile builds, because it's the only thing remotely competitive on the class with no burst damage. No Incap+Grim Focus, no Sub Assault+DBoS, no PotL+DBoS. For StamSorc, DBoS is literally the only available burst skill and that's a 125 cost ultimate on a class without Major Heroism and practically no Minor/Major buffs outside of what Weapons Skills provide. What's a StamSorc to do, if not build for Bleeds/DoTs?
StamSorc is a bit like a StamDK, with physical instead of poisons DoTs. Only with worse in-fight sustain (no Battle Roar or Helping Hands), tankiness and CCs, but with more DoT damage and more movement. Both still bottom of the stam pile due to lack of burst outside of ult and with no build variance.
StamBlade in the meantime, can play a bleed build as well as any StamSorc. But it can also play roly-poly dodge+cloak build, racking up large K/D ratios. Or sniper-ganker build. Or basically any stamina build conceivable. And still be the best at them all, or at worse second best.
I do not agree with stam sorc having worse sustain. StamDK is worse because it does not have readily accessible Dark Deal which converts magicka to stam much more efficiently than any other DK builds can do and best of all, you can save ult for the right time at all times unlike DK. But on other parts, I agree.
I said "in-combat" sustain. Dark Deal is not really in-combat. You do it in-combat, you die. You have to Streak out and do it.
If you're running low on stam, then casting it in front of your opponents face (you're a melee build, after all) will result in you taking a LA+Skill+bash to the face. Spending even more stam (that you probably don't have, since that's the resource you're trying to recoup in the first place) to CC break.
Then you have to wait for the 2 seconds CD before you can even cast it again and another 1.1" of cast-time. All the while taking damage and running low on resources. That's incredibly punishing in a no-CP environment with cost increase poisons. CC break when cost-poisoned will cost way more than your Dark Deal will return.
Dark Deal is great if you can buy moments out of combat. But in the heat of battle, Battle Roar from a 110 cost ult is better imo.
to be honest adrenalina rush by itself probably helps out more than battle roar. Stamsorc has it much better when it comes to sustain, and the interrupt changes to dark deal definitely made a difference.
But If stamDK also had a %20 stam/hp regen passive, I would say that stamDk has the edge, but since that is not the case, stamsorc clearly is the winner.
Don't forget 5% cost reduction
and the %8 extra max stamina, and the ult cost reduction... yeah, definitely stamsorc has nothing over stamDk. We got that juuuuicy battle roar right?
Don't push it.
8% extra stam requires two slots at the minute. Which is entirely non-viable outside of PvE or specific duel builds.
15% ult cost reduction brings DBoS cost down to from 125 to 106. It's also the only usable ult for StamSorc as the rest are completely rubbish... outside of maybe Ballista if you run bow. The 110 cost Take Flight is up quicker than a 106 DBoS if you use an Earthen Heart ability once every 20", not to mention hit harder and knock back instead of down. There's a reason no StamDK uses DBoS.
The 5% cost reduction and 20% stam regen buff are indeed very nice. And StamSorc certainly has a better ability to reset stats with Dark Deal if he can buy some "alone time". I wouldn't argue otherwise. But I'm not sure that the math supports them to be stronger than Helping Hands + Battle Roar combined when in the midst of combat.
to be honest, if it was 106 ult I Would use DBoS over TF any day. Dks choose ults depending on their costs, Its not about what hits harder but about what is actually cost effective. If I could have a 106 cost dawnbreaker I would run it any day. I guess this is probably why take flight is at 110 ult. If it was at 125 I would simply drop it for dawnbreaker.TheBonesXXX wrote: »Karmanorway wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »When I see nerf threads all I picture in my head is some arrogant millennial who whos "CATCH MY BUILD BRO" got crapped on and instead of just enjoying the game they come here to the forums to ***.
Games the most diverse its ever been in terms of builds, not everyone is "LITERALLY RUNNING BLEED BUILDS" or bleeds are "LITERALLY MOST EFFECTIVE".
Figure it out or take your ball and foh.
L2read , im asking for counters, not nerfs
You must have missed the conversation on this thread, because an open ended reply that was not particularly aimed at anyone clearly tugs at your heart strings.
These forums are notorious for thinly veiled nerfs this thread is no different because you are not policing it.
I'll help, be "productive",
Check this out folks, Replenishing Barrier, Major/Minor protection, snares usually help with kiting away from a bleed build to land a stun; do your burst line, then build your ultimate up.
Most pressure builds ironically fall onto more pressure with a combination of snares/immobilize and a healthy amount of health recovery and CC.
Pure bleed builds typically lack good recovery.
I like how you just list classic things to do in PvP and try to sell it as counterplay. I really love how dumb the ''bleed counter'' suggestions you guys come up with.
''Killing the bleed build is surely counterplay!'' Oh, you don't say? Killing my enemy in a PvP environment, wow, now that is really a helpful tip there.
''major/minor protection reduces bleed damage'' Oh, now this is a good one. Good thing everyone and their mums are playing stamdens so they can spam permafrost non stop for mitigation Screw the rest anyways right?
''snares'' momentum exists, and so does shuffle. Also just like how you can snare that guy, he can snare you aswell. the other morph of blood craze is a very strong snare.
''build ultimate up, do your burst line'' again, you're assuming as if this bleed guy will just put bleeds on you then sit there and watch.
Bleed builds are usually played by stamsorcs or stamblades, which both happens to have extremely good sustain without even building for it.
And what annoys me is that how some people, including you, act like you're some hot *** and then type a wall of nonsense that will do absolutely nothing to a proper build with bleeds.
I dont care if you want to make a scientific debate out of something that is pretty bloody obvious; because some players have trouble with bleed builds doesn't mean all of us do. A proper bleed build may be only a nuisance to YOU, but when it comes to the classes I put a little more forethought into the one or two classes that "typically" run something.
I'm apprehensive of nerfs in this game because most of this player base cannot compute the mathematics required to agree or disagree with an argument and those who can cleverly change the game without putting into forethought what will happen to X later on down the line when more changes come.
Try being a little more observant and you would notice the same exact thing.
Furthermore, I just said how to counter bleed builds because, I run a bleed build. That's a revolutionary thought, run a build you have a hard time countering and learn how it's played right? Fantastic, now get to it sunshine and you would see how to counter bleed builds.
If you think that Permafrost is the only ability in the game that comes with major prot wait till you actually play the game, Bolstering Darkness is especially wicked.
The solutions are there, I'm not making a mountain out of a molehill.
1 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Depends on the bleed build.
If you're against a bleedblade, the best counter is to crawl up in fetal position and count down the seconds to your death.0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Counter pressure... That's pretty much it
Let me guess you play nightblade?
All classes which struggle against bleed builds can't counter pressure them.
Things like Stamsorc with troll king can't be pressured they have enough healing to kill you in 95% of the fights noatter how hard you'll try to pressure them.
Either you 1 shot them with will+ incap and can heal up with cloak or you play a stamclass and lose to bleed + defiles.
Literally all damage to an opponent is considered counter presure no matter what class you play
I'll just assume you are a nightblade because that's the only class that can counter pressure bleed builds as they can just heal up with cloak and then try to burst with incap.
Try it on a stamdk, stamplar, stamwarden or non bleed stamsorc. It doesn't work you can't pressure the bleed build because they are one of the specs with the most pressure.
That is rather incorrect. (I detect a tad of salt but whatever)
StamDK IS a pressure class, also corrosive armor carried one of the best stamDKs I know to victory in the Legend Tournament awhile back. Leap also does more damage than incap, still stuns, and is undodgable
Stamplar is also a pressure class and if you aren't using DW/2H with bleeds then you're probably not playing it very well
StamWarden has no issue with pressure builds cuz of shrooms and shalks
With a stamsorc you just have to use dark deal at the right time, other than that you might actually be screwed
Incap is the best ult for single target nothing in this game comes close to its performance.
Saying it's blockable or dodgeable is ignorant as it's instant and can be AC'd you'd have to dodge before the incap is used to avoid it.
Leap misses far more often due to bugs and lags+ has a long travel time that can't be cancelled. It's also more expensive and doesn't provide major defile + 20% more damage taken debuff which is even more devastating with the will that'll hit after the incap.
Stamdk has much less pressure than any bleed build they also lose to them in any fight against players of the same skill level.
Bleed stamplar is a pure 1v1 spec. If you bring that thing into open world you will be stomped everytime you fight multiple targets or a magicka spec or an OW stamsorc bleed spec.
Stamwarden gets rekt by bleed builds like any other stamspec that hasn't access to cloak. They may survive longer but at the same skill level they will always lose.
Stamsorc is either bleed build with no regen or non bleed build with no regen. If the non bleed build can nuke the bleed build in the first seconds he win if not he'll lose
Stamnb is the best stamclass to fight bleed builds. They can fully heal and negate the damage with cloak and can easily burst the bleed build with incap+ will.2 -
Drakkdjinn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Karmanorway wrote: »If they use blood drinker on top of that + master weapons then yeah.
I use none of that, and yet i get called out everyday for my "bleed build", so ...?Why would i play something that dont require skill? When i pvp i do it to get better, not pressing 1 button and let my sets do the rest.
Using an "easy" build can be a very good way to get better, leaving you "brain time" to use on other things like spatial awareness, positioning, reading your opponents, etc..Bleed/dot with defile builds IS the strongest, but please prove me wrong
Bleed/dot = resource efficient pressure
Defile = resource efficient pressure
You can't make a pressure build work without Defile, and yes a strong setup is made with the strongest components
I was already using such a setup 6+ months ago when everyone was saying "go Two handed, Dual wield is useless for PvP, you need a gap closer and forward momentum [...]"
So you don't need to convince, me i use it because i think it's strong.
However i feel like this thread is the "Tanky and Burst" meta getting caught up by the "Resource efficient Pressure" meta, acting all surprised : "How is that our way is not the only way anymore ?" "I don't wan't to adapt, please send help!"
I might be wrong though
You are correct; bleeds were tuned up in months prior to offer more counters to the hordes of PvP tank builds that became a stale, bland meta throughout last year.
The irony of these QQ threads is that to some extent it demonstrates the balancing act worked; I see a lot of bumhurt posts here from players who are upset that they are actually mortal in Cyrodiil now.
4 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Depends on the bleed build.
If you're against a bleedblade, the best counter is to crawl up in fetal position and count down the seconds to your death.
or be another nightblade and just cloak your way to victory I guess. Now that I think about it, I really have no idea how a fight between a regular rollerblade and a specialized bleedblade would go.
I guess if the bleedblade slots mark its an easy victory for him, but otherwise the fight should favor the rollerblade.Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 16, 2018 2:56PM0 -
ErMurazor✭✭✭✭✭Stop saying that stamwarden and stamsorc bleedbuild are OP. Stamblade are the OP one according to the forumwarriors.
Nice miss-direction. That's because they are, only closely matched by StamDens.
Have you tried a bleed build on a heavy armour StamBlade with troll king? I'm guessing not. They nasty af. And they can still disengage at will, thanks to cloak+shade. With superior burst damage to that of StamSorcs.
StamSorc is basically forced to play bleed (i.e. DoT) and defile builds, because it's the only thing remotely competitive on the class with no burst damage. No Incap+Grim Focus, no Sub Assault+DBoS, no PotL+DBoS. For StamSorc, DBoS is literally the only available burst skill and that's a 125 cost ultimate on a class without Major Heroism and practically no Minor/Major buffs outside of what Weapons Skills provide. What's a StamSorc to do, if not build for Bleeds/DoTs?
StamSorc is a bit like a StamDK, with physical instead of poisons DoTs. Only with worse in-fight sustain (no Battle Roar or Helping Hands), tankiness and CCs, but with more DoT damage and more movement. Both still bottom of the stam pile due to lack of burst outside of ult and with no build variance.
StamBlade in the meantime, can play a bleed build as well as any StamSorc. But it can also play roly-poly dodge+cloak build, racking up large K/D ratios. Or sniper-ganker build. Or basically any stamina build conceivable. And still be the best at them all, or at worse second best.
you seriously say that stamblade outperforms a stamsorc bleedbuild? sometimes i wonder if ppl in theese forums actually play the game.1 -
Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭People don't play meta becouse they enjoy doing something else, not everyone is a "I WANT TO WIN AND WIN ONLY" kind of player. People like to have a good fight with whatever they use.
I understand, but do you guys realize that you will spend you whole life chasing something you cannot obtain ?
Best players will always use the strongest tools at their disposal, you could nerf "the meta" every month, and those players would always be ahead of you, using the next best thing.
Don't worry, balance will be achieved sooner or laterI meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Stop saying that stamwarden and stamsorc bleedbuild are OP. Stamblade are the OP one according to the forumwarriors.
Nice miss-direction. That's because they are, only closely matched by StamDens.
Have you tried a bleed build on a heavy armour StamBlade with troll king? I'm guessing not. They nasty af. And they can still disengage at will, thanks to cloak+shade. With superior burst damage to that of StamSorcs.
StamSorc is basically forced to play bleed (i.e. DoT) and defile builds, because it's the only thing remotely competitive on the class with no burst damage. No Incap+Grim Focus, no Sub Assault+DBoS, no PotL+DBoS. For StamSorc, DBoS is literally the only available burst skill and that's a 125 cost ultimate on a class without Major Heroism and practically no Minor/Major buffs outside of what Weapons Skills provide. What's a StamSorc to do, if not build for Bleeds/DoTs?
StamSorc is a bit like a StamDK, with physical instead of poisons DoTs. Only with worse in-fight sustain (no Battle Roar or Helping Hands), tankiness and CCs, but with more DoT damage and more movement. Both still bottom of the stam pile due to lack of burst outside of ult and with no build variance.
StamBlade in the meantime, can play a bleed build as well as any StamSorc. But it can also play roly-poly dodge+cloak build, racking up large K/D ratios. Or sniper-ganker build. Or basically any stamina build conceivable. And still be the best at them all, or at worse second best.
you seriously say that stamblade outperforms a stamsorc bleedbuild? sometimes i wonder if ppl in theese forums actually play the game.
Your input in this thread so far has been to make a sarcastic joke about Stamblade being potentially weaker than StamSorc (lol) and one dismissive post with no further explanation. I'm quite leaning towards you not playing the game so far, more than anyone else in this thread.
Do you even have any of these builds we're talking about? Have you even tried playing a heavy StamBlade or a StamSorc bleed build? Do you even have a StamSorc? Or did you just get wrecked by a couple and jumped on the bandwagon that bleed builds are strong and somehow StamSorc is the best one?
Do you think you can make a StamSorc bleed build that can take on a skilled heavy armor Stamblade equally built for brawling? I've yet to see a StamSorc do that, but who knows you might be the first and you might be the best player in the history of ESO too. Allow me to have my doubts though.EU | PC | AD2 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Stop saying that stamwarden and stamsorc bleedbuild are OP. Stamblade are the OP one according to the forumwarriors.
Nice miss-direction. That's because they are, only closely matched by StamDens.
Have you tried a bleed build on a heavy armour StamBlade with troll king? I'm guessing not. They nasty af. And they can still disengage at will, thanks to cloak+shade. With superior burst damage to that of StamSorcs.
StamSorc is basically forced to play bleed (i.e. DoT) and defile builds, because it's the only thing remotely competitive on the class with no burst damage. No Incap+Grim Focus, no Sub Assault+DBoS, no PotL+DBoS. For StamSorc, DBoS is literally the only available burst skill and that's a 125 cost ultimate on a class without Major Heroism and practically no Minor/Major buffs outside of what Weapons Skills provide. What's a StamSorc to do, if not build for Bleeds/DoTs?
StamSorc is a bit like a StamDK, with physical instead of poisons DoTs. Only with worse in-fight sustain (no Battle Roar or Helping Hands), tankiness and CCs, but with more DoT damage and more movement. Both still bottom of the stam pile due to lack of burst outside of ult and with no build variance.
StamBlade in the meantime, can play a bleed build as well as any StamSorc. But it can also play roly-poly dodge+cloak build, racking up large K/D ratios. Or sniper-ganker build. Or basically any stamina build conceivable. And still be the best at them all, or at worse second best.
you seriously say that stamblade outperforms a stamsorc bleedbuild? sometimes i wonder if ppl in theese forums actually play the game.
Your input in this thread so far has been to make a sarcastic joke about Stamblade being potentially weaker than StamSorc (lol) and one dismissive post with no further explanation. I'm quite leaning towards you not playing the game so far, more than anyone else in this thread.
Do you even have any of these builds we're talking about? Have you even tried playing a heavy StamBlade or a StamSorc bleed build? Do you even have a StamSorc? Or did you just get wrecked by a couple and jumped on the bandwagon that bleed builds are strong and somehow StamSorc is the best one?
Do you think you can make a StamSorc bleed build that can take on a skilled heavy armor Stamblade equally built for brawling? I've yet to see a StamSorc do that, but who knows you might be the first and you might be the best player in the history of ESO too. Allow me to have my doubts though.
stamsorc bleed builds can delete people in literally 3 seconds. Stamblade can't even hope to achieve that sort of pressure.0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Stop saying that stamwarden and stamsorc bleedbuild are OP. Stamblade are the OP one according to the forumwarriors.
Nice miss-direction. That's because they are, only closely matched by StamDens.
Have you tried a bleed build on a heavy armour StamBlade with troll king? I'm guessing not. They nasty af. And they can still disengage at will, thanks to cloak+shade. With superior burst damage to that of StamSorcs.
StamSorc is basically forced to play bleed (i.e. DoT) and defile builds, because it's the only thing remotely competitive on the class with no burst damage. No Incap+Grim Focus, no Sub Assault+DBoS, no PotL+DBoS. For StamSorc, DBoS is literally the only available burst skill and that's a 125 cost ultimate on a class without Major Heroism and practically no Minor/Major buffs outside of what Weapons Skills provide. What's a StamSorc to do, if not build for Bleeds/DoTs?
StamSorc is a bit like a StamDK, with physical instead of poisons DoTs. Only with worse in-fight sustain (no Battle Roar or Helping Hands), tankiness and CCs, but with more DoT damage and more movement. Both still bottom of the stam pile due to lack of burst outside of ult and with no build variance.
StamBlade in the meantime, can play a bleed build as well as any StamSorc. But it can also play roly-poly dodge+cloak build, racking up large K/D ratios. Or sniper-ganker build. Or basically any stamina build conceivable. And still be the best at them all, or at worse second best.
you seriously say that stamblade outperforms a stamsorc bleedbuild? sometimes i wonder if ppl in theese forums actually play the game.
Your input in this thread so far has been to make a sarcastic joke about Stamblade being potentially weaker than StamSorc (lol) and one dismissive post with no further explanation. I'm quite leaning towards you not playing the game so far, more than anyone else in this thread.
Do you even have any of these builds we're talking about? Have you even tried playing a heavy StamBlade or a StamSorc bleed build? Do you even have a StamSorc? Or did you just get wrecked by a couple and jumped on the bandwagon that bleed builds are strong and somehow StamSorc is the best one?
Do you think you can make a StamSorc bleed build that can take on a skilled heavy armor Stamblade equally built for brawling? I've yet to see a StamSorc do that, but who knows you might be the first and you might be the best player in the history of ESO too. Allow me to have my doubts though.
stamsorc bleed builds can delete people in literally 3 seconds. Stamblade can't even hope to achieve that sort of pressure."
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Edited for people who don't get the joke1 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Stop saying that stamwarden and stamsorc bleedbuild are OP. Stamblade are the OP one according to the forumwarriors.
Nice miss-direction. That's because they are, only closely matched by StamDens.
Have you tried a bleed build on a heavy armour StamBlade with troll king? I'm guessing not. They nasty af. And they can still disengage at will, thanks to cloak+shade. With superior burst damage to that of StamSorcs.
StamSorc is basically forced to play bleed (i.e. DoT) and defile builds, because it's the only thing remotely competitive on the class with no burst damage. No Incap+Grim Focus, no Sub Assault+DBoS, no PotL+DBoS. For StamSorc, DBoS is literally the only available burst skill and that's a 125 cost ultimate on a class without Major Heroism and practically no Minor/Major buffs outside of what Weapons Skills provide. What's a StamSorc to do, if not build for Bleeds/DoTs?
StamSorc is a bit like a StamDK, with physical instead of poisons DoTs. Only with worse in-fight sustain (no Battle Roar or Helping Hands), tankiness and CCs, but with more DoT damage and more movement. Both still bottom of the stam pile due to lack of burst outside of ult and with no build variance.
StamBlade in the meantime, can play a bleed build as well as any StamSorc. But it can also play roly-poly dodge+cloak build, racking up large K/D ratios. Or sniper-ganker build. Or basically any stamina build conceivable. And still be the best at them all, or at worse second best.
you seriously say that stamblade outperforms a stamsorc bleedbuild? sometimes i wonder if ppl in theese forums actually play the game.
Your input in this thread so far has been to make a sarcastic joke about Stamblade being potentially weaker than StamSorc (lol) and one dismissive post with no further explanation. I'm quite leaning towards you not playing the game so far, more than anyone else in this thread.
Do you even have any of these builds we're talking about? Have you even tried playing a heavy StamBlade or a StamSorc bleed build? Do you even have a StamSorc? Or did you just get wrecked by a couple and jumped on the bandwagon that bleed builds are strong and somehow StamSorc is the best one?
Do you think you can make a StamSorc bleed build that can take on a skilled heavy armor Stamblade equally built for brawling? I've yet to see a StamSorc do that, but who knows you might be the first and you might be the best player in the history of ESO too. Allow me to have my doubts though.
stamsorc bleed builds can delete people in literally 3 seconds. Stamblade can't even hope to achieve that sort of pressure.
It's a DoT build. In 3 seconds, you probably haven't even applied full pressure yet. If you die in literally 3 seconds to a DoT build, the problem is on your side. I encourage you as well to make a StamSorc bleed build and come try against a StamBlade EU | PC | AD1 -
Aznox✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »stamsorc bleed builds can delete people in literally 3 seconds. Stamblade can't even hope to achieve that sort of pressure.
You just literally lost all credibility.
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