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More super easy overland content (at max champion)

  • MehrunesFlagon
    MehrunesFlagon
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    Sevn wrote: »
    Having optimal gear and levels and complaining something is easy... hmmmm

    Stop it, they worked hard for that gear and should be able to use it! Why on earth would you good folks suggest they nerf themselves when they can ask Zos to spend time and resources to do what they refuse to do!

    It's not like buffing the npc's and nerfing oneself equals out to the same thing.

    In all seriousness, Zos is not going to do any of that time consuming and resource draining suggestions folks are throwing out. The best thing you can expect is an artificial buff to npc's health and damage output which can be achieved by ta da, nerfing oneself. Worst case is they'll simply nerf all players. Thanks for that.

    I can't understand folks that dismiss that this is a business and they make business decisions that are financially beneficial to their business. Making a completely new "vet" instance for a tiny fraction of hardcore gamers, for free I might add is not one of them.

    I mean damn, they won't even balance PvP and pve separately because it would be too much work if my memory serves me correctly, you all really believe that they've any interest in creating new vet zones? Good luck with that...

    if they would simply remove Robert Trump from their board of directors.I could see them having more resources to do that.With such a greedy sack of *** running things,yeah you are probably right.
    Edited by MehrunesFlagon on March 25, 2018 7:39AM
  • Domander
    Domander
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    When the game launched 2/3 of the overland content were vet zones and they were much less boring. Who here thinks it's unreasonable to ask for that back?
    Edited by Domander on March 25, 2018 8:32PM
  • SlayerSyrena
    SlayerSyrena
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    Craglorn's overland content was difficult in the beginning and no one liked it. No one grouped for it.
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  • Domander
    Domander
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    Just looking for questing content I can't complete with light attack, it's sad that there are players against that...
  • Domander
    Domander
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    Craglorn's overland content was difficult in the beginning and no one liked it. No one grouped for it.

    Yeah but that was group content and badly designed group quests.
  • phileunderx2
    phileunderx2
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    Yes the silver and gold zones were more difficult but they were also almost devoid of players. Same for old Craglorn. We spend a lot of time and effort to get the best gear that makes us stronger and the game easier and then complain that the game is too easy. Lol
  • Sevn
    Sevn
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    Domander wrote: »
    Just looking for questing content I can't complete with light attack, it's sad that there are players against that...

    Overland questing is about being told a story and casual exploration, if you are looking for a challenge with a bit of questing that is what dungeons are for.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
    -Hemingway
  • iNSiPiD1
    iNSiPiD1
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    Odnoc wrote: »
    Maybe RPG's aren't for the people who don't like story driven games?

    I don't have a problem with it being story-driven. I have a problem with the content being so easy it literally puts me to sleep.

    The joy of playing games is that they provide a sense of accomplishment. If you're about to tell me that the only reason for any future DLCs/expansion to exist is so that they can convey a story and provide no difficulty whatsoever then this game is on its death bed.

    I guarantee you the sales numbers for Summerset will be pathetic, and the chief reason will be players like me just bailing on the game because we're tired of the same difficulty and content over and over again.

  • Sevn
    Sevn
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    iNSiPiD1 wrote: »
    Odnoc wrote: »
    Maybe RPG's aren't for the people who don't like story driven games?

    I don't have a problem with it being story-driven. I have a problem with the content being so easy it literally puts me to sleep.

    The joy of playing games is that they provide a sense of accomplishment. If you're about to tell me that the only reason for any future DLCs/expansion to exist is so that they can convey a story and provide no difficulty whatsoever then this game is on its death bed.

    I guarantee you the sales numbers for Summerset will be pathetic, and the chief reason will be players like me just bailing on the game because we're tired of the same difficulty and content over and over again.

    No, for YOU the joy of playing videogames is to get a sense of accomplishment. Videogames are a source of relaxing entertainment for many of us. A virtual book if you will. I don't read a novel and when finished feel any sense of accomplishment, videogames are no different, for some of us.
    Edited by Sevn on March 28, 2018 8:23PM
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
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  • tinythinker
    tinythinker
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    Since this comes up often:
    • There is nothing wrong with wanting a challenge that isn't just "go naked"
    • There are available options for design that can be used to reward and challenge players vis a vis harder overland content
    • Here is one of them
    • Implementing one of said options allows those who like things as is and those who don't to enjoy the game, so it would count as an improvement
    • This last bullet is here just to look cool.
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  • iNSiPiD1
    iNSiPiD1
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    Sevn wrote: »
    No, for YOU the joy of playing videogames is to get a sense of accomplishment. Videogames are a source of relaxing entertainment for many of us. A virtual book if you will. I don't read a novel and when finished feel any sense of accomplishment, videogames are no different, for some of us.

    Well if their target demographic is people who want to be read a bed time story that's fine, they are admitting that with every piece of new content they make anyway as it's all the exact same difficulty as the stuff that came before it. They've made it clear that people who want some type of challenge are not wanted in this game.

    I don't think asking for new content that doesn't snooze people to sleep is a big deal. The content is beyond trivial at this point, it literally puts people to sleep.

    And by the way, if this wasn't a problem within the community there wouldn't be thread after thread, month after month, year after year of people talking about this. It's clear at this point that nothing is going to change. Like I said, I've already moved on, at this point when Zeni is wondering why their Summerset expansion sold like crap, they should look at this as the reason why.

  • Septimus_Magna
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    Intentionally gimping yourself by removing CP or gear is a stupid solution to make content more challenging.

    Players work countless hours to get gear that makes them a tiny bit stronger. They dont want to negate their efforts by constantly gimping themselves just to make overland/quest content a little slower. A quest boss usually has so little health, it doesnt really matter if you deal 10k or 30k dps because they will die within a couple seconds anyway. There's no threat because the boss' attacks deal low dmg and sustain isnt an issue in short fights.

    I dont understand why players would be against a veteran overland mode. The system works perfectly fine for dungeons and doesnt impact anyone in a negative way. Just give players that do veteran overland content more XP, gold and better drops chances. This will encourage new players to become stronger and make the switch to veteran overland. Running veteran overland will also prepare players for veteran dungeons. Right now there are too many players not even attempting veteran dungeons because the difficulty gap is quite big if you're used to normal dungeons.
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  • Sevn
    Sevn
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    iNSiPiD1 wrote: »
    Sevn wrote: »
    No, for YOU the joy of playing videogames is to get a sense of accomplishment. Videogames are a source of relaxing entertainment for many of us. A virtual book if you will. I don't read a novel and when finished feel any sense of accomplishment, videogames are no different, for some of us.

    Well if their target demographic is people who want to be read a bed time story that's fine, they are admitting that with every piece of new content they make anyway as it's all the exact same difficulty as the stuff that came before it. They've made it clear that people who want some type of challenge are not wanted in this game.

    I don't think asking for new content that doesn't snooze people to sleep is a big deal. The content is beyond trivial at this point, it literally puts people to sleep.

    And by the way, if this wasn't a problem within the community there wouldn't be thread after thread, month after month, year after year of people talking about this. It's clear at this point that nothing is going to change. Like I said, I've already moved on, at this point when Zeni is wondering why their Summerset expansion sold like crap, they should look at this as the reason why.

    Plenty of different content to appease the playerbase, how many vet dungeons have you solo'd? Have you mastered vmael yet?

    Challenges are there and it makes no sense to take resources from making content that us casual carebears who are the vast majority and want to be told a bedtime story and willing to pay top dollar for it to boot, to make content for a tiny fraction of players who use videogames to garner some type of accomplishment and want it done for free.

    To be clear I have ZERO issue with players who are into virtual accomplishments, until they insist on taking resources or content from the rest of us. They have a budget and there is only so much that can be done in any given time.

    Barely anyone has bothered with vet maelstrom, the harder dlc dungeons are ignored and you think it's a good business decision to use limited resources on making optional "vet" zones to appease a tiny fraction of the player base that will soon bore of that content within a month of it's release? And of course you want better rewards as well, which implies to me it's not about the challenge at all. For free I might add? Don't hold your breath.

    These type of threads keep coming up because a fraction of the player base can't get it thru their head that overworld content isn't made for them and most likely never will.

    You know you don't have to be here right?
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  • Kalgert
    Kalgert
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    I really don't understand these "Muh overland challnge" people. Why do you want that in the first place?

    I mean, as someone who gets shunned from Veteran Dungeons because of reasons, normal dungeons and overland stuff is my main method of doing game stuff, some of which is fairly enjoyable.

    It sounds a lot like you are trying to take away something from a set of players.
  • Septimus_Magna
    Septimus_Magna
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    Kalgert wrote: »
    I really don't understand these "Muh overland challnge" people. Why do you want that in the first place?

    I mean, as someone who gets shunned from Veteran Dungeons because of reasons, normal dungeons and overland stuff is my main method of doing game stuff, some of which is fairly enjoyable.

    It sounds a lot like you are trying to take away something from a set of players.

    It might sound like that because you're not reading the arguments correctly.

    If players have the CHOICE to switch between normal and veteran overland what gets taken away?
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  • Zeni0s
    Zeni0s
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    In the overlands the normal/vet difficulty should work like in dongeon.

    But it means a new world instance and vet players will be together...
    It also mean a vet craglorn instance. :o

    In fact even a 160cp can 1vWorld.
  • Aesthier
    Aesthier
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    [quote="Septimus_Magna;c-4985689"

    It might sound like that because you're not reading the arguments correctly.

    If players have the CHOICE to switch between normal and veteran overland what gets taken away?
    [/quote]

    Oh, I dunno the fact that I am subscribing to them to create relevant content for me, not the top 5%.

    The gap just continues to grow but because of your option at a greatly magnified pace.



  • Biro123
    Biro123
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    I'm all for the option of harder overland stuff.

    I don't like doing dungeons - and would much rather do quests at my own rate - BUT there has to be a challenge. I havn't quested in over a year in this game - probably longer - because there is no challenge - there is no sense of achievement. Its as if the overland mobs may as well not even be there and the quests just become a sequence of running from A to B and reading some stuff inbetween.

    I want to feel a sense of accomplishment to finish a quest. I want to feel a sense of danger with combat - without which, there is no immersion.

    Why can't I play the game I want to play.??

    Even just delves would do.. When entering a delve, let me choose whether to do the existing 'shared' delve - or whether to do my own instance - with enemies scaled to my CP level - make the boss a challenge and perhaps add a small increment to the undaunted line for completing them.

    I get that overland is hard for new players with no gear and no CP's and little experience of the game. I get that it can't just be made harder for everyone. But there HAS to be an option.

    Also I'm sure its not just the 'top 5%' either. I kind of think that the majority have characters over CP160 now and would either welcome this now - or will at some point.
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  • Septimus_Magna
    Septimus_Magna
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    Aesthier wrote: »

    It might sound like that because you're not reading the arguments correctly.

    If players have the CHOICE to switch between normal and veteran overland what gets taken away?

    Oh, I dunno the fact that I am subscribing to them to create relevant content for me, not the top 5%.

    The gap just continues to grow but because of your option at a greatly magnified pace.

    They dont need to create content, its mostly a buff in stats and maybe some mechanics that are already in game.

    Veteran overland doesnt have to be as difficult as veteran dungeons. Normal dungeons are more difficult to than quests/overland content so something between normal and vet dungeons would make the transition from normal to vet easier for new players like yourself.

    The idea and intent is to reduce the skill gap and make veteran content better accessible for new players.
    Edited by Septimus_Magna on March 29, 2018 11:56AM
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  • EvilAutoTech
    EvilAutoTech
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    I finished the main quest at level 47 about three months before One Tamriel. I could spend hours in Auridon without seeing more than two other people. The only place I would see max CP players was Davon's Watch. Once people had finished those vet zones, they wouldn't go back there. Craglorn was mostly deserted. Even in Wrothgar and the Gold Coast I saw mostly low CP players.

    One Tamriel changed this and now everywhere I go I see players ranging from level three to max CP. I think this is a good thing. Even though the game has become less challenging, it has become more social.

    Segregating the player base did not work in the past and I don't think it would work now. Vet zones might be popular for a while but I think they would eventually be as empty as silver and gold were before 1T.
  • GreenhaloX
    GreenhaloX
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    Craglorn should have been left alone as it was prior to One-Tamriel. This way the higher level sadistic and masochist type toons/players can have one place to be a bit more challenging (other than vMA or vet HM trials) throughout the zone. The dev should have played more on Craglorn to add more harder overland adds/mobs/bosses and contents. Well, currently, those overland portals are a bit more challenging to do it sololy, but really no good drops from it or incentive to do it.
  • madchuska83
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    To have one Normal Overland mode and one Vet Overland mode would be great. However, it would require new megaservers. Which costs $$$. They'd have to set it up where you can choose NA/EU Vet servers, so 2 new servers for each platform. Never gonna happen, ever.
  • Septimus_Magna
    Septimus_Magna
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    To have one Normal Overland mode and one Vet Overland mode would be great. However, it would require new megaservers. Which costs $$$. They'd have to set it up where you can choose NA/EU Vet servers, so 2 new servers for each platform. Never gonna happen, ever.

    What makes you think it requires a new server?
    There are already multiple instances of overland Tamriel, one of those could easily be veteran.
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  • Rouven
    Rouven
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    Biro123 wrote: »
    (...)

    Even just delves would do.. When entering a delve, let me choose whether to do the existing 'shared' delve - or whether to do my own instance - with enemies scaled to my CP level - make the boss a challenge and perhaps add a small increment to the undaunted line for completing them.

    (...)

    Sort of a neat idea. Sort of make all Delves into mini solo dungeons - add replayability, could even be new achievements. We do know that someone will complain about ZOS being cheap, recycling content etc.
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  • RexyCat
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    it's called "POWER CREEP"... it's a thing.

    It is called "old age" (people do get older) or in gamers lingo: skill.

    Skill is something that people complaining about NPC being too easy to kill will develop when they have run the same content or dungeons/trials 500 times to get the perfect gear set with all traits in right places. Farmed all places where they could gain fast XP to get their CP grow up and beyond max level cap. And now they just find everything too easy...

    I don't find WB very easy too solo...and I did solo a couple WB before they made a change to that for some time ago. With too many stop to get people to do the same content like killing a certain boss or a quest sequence where you can't continue because you don't have enough of people 24/7 to do the same stuff as you are doing it would likely create new problems. Large groups in one place in this game isn't good for how server performance work either way, so there is actually good reason to not go in that direction.

    In GW2 they changed bosses to have a second health bar (break bar) which you needed to CC down (only CC abilities would damage this bar) and break bar is timed which means that you needed to have enough damage skills on your bar to be able to actually chop of health on main health bar before break bar would change status into an invulnerability phase, maybe heal up break bar (and regen health on main health). Break bar worked different on different type of bosses, it also increased "difficulty", but it didn't take long until a meta developed where one needed CC for break bar and conditions (DoTs) which work in background even when break bar was up blocking damage to health. Direct damage is only useful the very short time while break bar was broken. I don't want to see anything of this kind in this game as it just makes thing take longer to kill and in the end it will not stop players from becoming "bored" because they will find a new way to reduce what is intended to actually create a feeling of challenge, but ends up with only adding another layer of mechanics and a new level of power creeping.

    Another important part in GW2 is how everything is running on a timer in that game. That way people know when to expect to show up for a world event (boss) or even in which sequence of quests, mobs and WB that needs to be killed to get to the final boss and reward. In ESO we don't have that kind of stress. We don't need to organise a group (even PUGs need to spend more time waiting (around 15-30 min) before event will even start to get into an active instance - enough player in one place at least to make server create an instance) and then actually get all player into an instance where everybody hopefully will be in the right place when event start.

    Chained event can be fun when there is enough people to do these and there at least are some people that know what do, have right DPS and heals to keep PvE zerg alive and when to not have a chained world event to fail (or reset where you would need to wait until timer will start next again for event to start), which means that you actually use a lot of time just to get enough people to start an instance of that world event, get people to understand what to do and where to go or be (when fight starts those places will be closed off from access by tp system). Before Heart of Thorns (GW2s "chapter" or "expansion") you did only have a larger world boss on timer in most zones which also had an impact on that zones enviroment, there where some more complex WB which worked like chained event where things needed to be done in right order to success. The main difference here is that you would be kicked out of that instance to the beginning of that world boss chain when last WB had been killed or group/zerg failed to kill boss within the given time frame. Meaning zerg would need to have enough alive player to DPS down boss(es). Large AoEs combined with CC from boss can fast wipe out a large population fast (resurrection player become more important here as with an enviroment where there is winding passages, poison on ground and full with hostile enemies from spawn point and back to zerg it will take time to get back in the right spot with zerg. A large part in those chained event is actually to move as a zerg or position smaller groups around on different parts of map to keep group alive, resurrect player, cleanse DoTs/soft CC and do damage when possible.

    Why is all this relevant to discussion about difficulty in ESO over world? Well with GW2 HoT there where a large jump in difficulty for how the new zones worked with mechanics where NPCs make more use of (AoE) poision, stealth and CC. WB became much more chained events where everything in that zone now works on a timer, so even solo player have to watch timer to be able to finish farming or doing things in that zone before they also will be kicked out. After some time player adopted and now it is considered "boring" for those veteran player as those have now got (better) gear to handle mechanics, better understanding of what is going in general and got better skills (as in routine for how NPC/mobs and bosses work).



    In short changing how overworld ESO work in making it more of "challenge" would not get us anywhere and could end up with "dead zones" when there is not enough player to do that stuff any more, it will most likely create a faster power jump between those more experienced player and already have enough resources to adopt (collected gear, mats, gold or any other token which can be used for gear and crafting or access to guild/friends that can provide help with crafting ).

    Quests progression might also become blocked, if there would be too much of a challenge which includes to get past bosses with health sponges or massive mobs with larger area of DoTs (poison)/CC/stealth mechanics (and we already have problems in ESO with how dungeons work (player kicking other players in HM and vet dungeons where low level CP have problems to get experience to actually get better by learn mechanics, know what gear and skill that work for that content or to at least do story content with reward connected which most vets already have gained from being early in those places) and "chaining" events of some kind is the most likely outcome to make a challenge on overworld which again isn't necessary in a positive direction for this game.
  • RexyCat
    RexyCat
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    Apherius wrote: »
    Apherius wrote: »
    Domander wrote: »
    I just want to comment that adding more easy overland content (summerset) isn't that appealing to me.

    I'd also like to add, an option (buff/debuff) to make all overland content more difficult with an increase in loot quality would be welcome.

    Play without CP. Problem solved.

    It's literally the opposite of " L2P " when someone ask for a dungeon/content nerf.

    Both answers are useless.

    Some want " nerfs " because they want to play the way they want, using their hybrid dk and mephala monster set + pelinal. but they can't because it's too hard, at least they can have fun in normal dungeons/trials.

    Same thing for those who ask for some difficulty, some creates their own challenge and play without cp and gear like you said, but some wants ( like me ) to keep their gold stuff and cp because it's a part of their char ... and they want the game to give them a challenge .. my self i don't want to play naked just because it's an ELDER SCROLLS, the customization of your char is an important thing .. and i want to have fun with it.

    Now please just stop with these useless replies ... I understand that my english is pretty bad ... but I'm sure my answer is more useful than yours
    red_emu wrote: »
    every mob and critter on Summerset should have a one shot mechanic to any players who ever said game is too easy. There. Problem solved!

    I want this.

    Nobody is going to provide you. You cannot balance overland content. Its downright impossible. What if level 3 and CP720 in same dungeon and fighting same boss ? You cannot even ask ZOs to balance it. Probably ZOs can put handicap tied to individuals so that every NPC can one shot you. Again its players issue and players has to decide whether they want handicap or not.

    Or just play naked without a weapon and armor & without CP. Engage in fist fight with boss.
    Environment cannot be fixed for you and never will . Its even too stupid to ask such thing. You are just wasting thread space for what cannot be done. What are you are planning ? 5000g for every quest run in summerset isles from new players ?

    Damn again ? I just said that i DIDN'T WANTED to play naked without all these tools. Some create their own challenge ... Some want the game to give them a challenge.

    For group dungeons they just need to add new difficulty tiers, then make boss animations faster, increase boss health and damage ect... But it's another discussion cause we are talking about Overland.

    for Overland, let's take an example: World-boss, if there is more than 5 players, boss health and damage should increase proportionally to the number of players.
    you see what i mean ? pretty difficult to explain, i think overland should scale on the number of players, this would prevent all these " farmers " that make the content faceroll easy.
    Of course i don't mean that if there are 2 players doing an World Boss, then the World Boss should be 2 times harder ... of course not, that's why I specified " more than 5 players ".

    With Summerset, like Morrowind, we will probably see bunch of player doing World Boss ... and these world boss will probably die instantly without the possibility to show what they can do ( like the World boss in Clockwork city, always wondered if he had some cool animation except the one he does when he dies) naked or not this won't change anything. I mean ... it's a WORLD BOSS ... it should last at least 30 seconds.

    If you could say me why the hell you are talking about quest rewards, this would be cool.

    No thank you to that in Bold! That would only mean that player would adopt to the smallest amount of player needed to kill WB fastest (efficient) and we are back to zero again. Scaling of WB have been done in GW2 and it ends up with player that feel that other player should stay away (too many player and it will scale in a way where players damage might not be enough when it is a PUG doing it). WB so far have worked in that player can ask for other player to get quests related to boss, shout out in zone chat to join group, kill boss and necessary steps and be done with it. With scaling on WB it would mean organised groups/guilds would start to yell at other player to get out of that zone because those player not in that group/guild would suddenly count as part of how much damage it would be needed and player doing other things like questing, farming or being AFK for a short moment would be accused of causing WB event to fail.

    Numbers of player doesn't tell anything about the potential damage they might have or how much heals, CC etc that those player bring to the table during boss fight. When will a group be too large to kill a WB or too weak? If only two player can kill a WB, then how would that be different from today? I have had a hard time to solo some WB, but with only one more person it was large difference as long as we both didn't get killed at the same time we could WB eventually. With a group of five you would moving in direction of dungeons (4-5 person) and with larger groups you are moving a trial setting. Maybe you should look how dungeons went from being split into only normal and veteran mode to have several intermediate levels (HM etc) as we have today? Scaling in dungeons make low level almost as strong in power as a player with full CP.
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