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Some suggestions regarding Cyrodiil/Imperial city.
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swippy✭✭✭✭✭yeah it'd be trivial to get as many as you want of the most coveted runes in the game. not a viable solution.0 -
Priyasekarssk✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Imagine telvar runs but with no risk. Would completly kill the vision zos had for the imperial city.Imagine telvar runs but with no risk. Would completly kill the vision zos had for the imperial city.
What vision ? Empty imperial city ? Getting bullied by experienced players ? Get guranteed telvar limits upto 1000-2000 TV. Let the new players come. Put risk reward above 1000-2000 telvars. A new player wont even go beyond that.
This is not something new that other games are not doing.
This is literally stealing money from other players who paid for Imperial city DLC. Oh wait, we monopolize resource market. New player should not come to imperial city and farm telvars. They should be bleeded for gold. Lets always put risk reward as an excuse to farm.
Let's look at how this would actually play out from the perspective of various types of experienced players.
So your suggestion is that up to 1000 Tel Var, I will not lose any to enemy players.
Situation 1: I want to farm Tel Var. I head out of my alliance base with 100 TV for the multiplier and then run tight circles in the sewer areas nearest my base until I have close to 1000 stones, then head into my base and bank them. The biggest risk I run is walking into a wandering sewer boss. Rinse repeat until I have all the TV I want.
That's not broken at all. I'm getting the rewards of a PVP zone without any of the risk of PVP.
Okay, situation 2: I'm an experienced PVPer. I've got AP to burn. I grab my 100 TV for the multiplier, buy a Sigil of Imperial Retreat for 10K AP (chump change because I'm an experienced PVPer), head up to the districts and farm TV until I'm at 1000 TV, pop that sigil of retreat and bank my TV. The biggest risk I run is walking into a District boss. Rinse repeat until I have all the Tel Var I want.
That's not broken at all. I'm getting the rewards of a PVP zone without any risk of PVP.
Okay, situation 3: I'm experienced player, and I'm here to gank people. I carry 100 TV for the multiplier. Maybe even 1000 TV since I'm feeling frisky. Oh, darn, there are all these farmers running around with less than 1000K TV that I can't gank.
Oh! There's somebody! Finally! *GANK*
If I lose, I lose nothing as long as I have under 1000 TV. There's no risk to failing a gank since I won't lose anything, I just have to respawn and try again.
If I win, I get Tel Var!
Sounds like a sweet deal for a ganker to me (aside from the people who are blatantly farming up to 1000TV without ever engaging in PVP in a PVP zone.)
Situation 4: The patient ganker. I'm a very patient ganker. The best place to lurk is right outside the other alliance home base and hope to gank people coming back with just slightly over 1000 TV before they bank it. The only risk I run is that I might get really bored waiting around for somebody to come by with over 1000 TV. As long as I have less than 1000k TV myself, I won't lose anything if I die.
Sounds like a sweet deal for a ganker for me (aside from the people who are blatantly farming up to 1000TV without ever engaging in PVP in a PVP zone.)
Once again, your solution can and will be taken advantage of by experienced players to farm Tel Var for little to no risk, thus completely devaluing Tel Var as a currency. Moreover, your suggestion actually reduces the risk of ganking since gankers no longer have to risk their own Tel Var if they are under your limit.
Tel Var is valuable precisely because farming it comes with the risk of losing 50% of what you carry if you die to an NPC or player.
New players wont farm more than 2000 telvars max. They wont go after bosses until they become really comfortable. Gankers may wait all day and one shotting new bies. Nothing they will get for time spent. For this time they can go after bosses and a lot earn more , instead of lurking around enemy base. If experienced players only farming players as source of telvars for mere few hundreds good luck. I hardly think any experienced PVP player go for few hundred telvars, even nothing to lose. My target is around 5k-20k within per raid . Why would I waste time in lurking around new bies. I wont get that much even I dont lose anything. I know some people with max cp levels go for 10k-50K+ per raid. They not even consider farming new bies an option. Experienced players will go after bosses instead. Bosses sitting all day alone waiting .
Imperial city & sewers are desperately need of new players. Farming new bies has to be avoided until they get some taste of imperial city. ZOs already write off PVP DLC. There is no meaning of crying for PVP DLC when there are no buyers.Edited by Priyasekarssk on March 23, 2018 3:40PM0 -
Sawzallz✭✭✭How many people play on. campaigns with no cp? Not a lot
Solution go to no cp pvp server no risk easy rewards and now I said thus the server will probably be full0 -
swippy✭✭✭✭✭if it were true that IC is as dead as you claim, then newbies already won't be losing Tel Var to others. there are no other people there, right?
it's not true though. i can't waltz around with impunity when i go there. there are always people ready to jack me. i have to balance my ever-increasing skill against my ever-increasing courage in order to profit. it's a more difficult playstyle and it's supposed to be challenging. it's not supposed to be a handout.
i do feel sorry for those Bosses though, sitting all day alone waiting. i've been meaning to visit...0 -
DocDova✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Imagine telvar runs but with no risk. Would completly kill the vision zos had for the imperial city.Imagine telvar runs but with no risk. Would completly kill the vision zos had for the imperial city.
What vision ? Empty imperial city ? Getting bullied by experienced players ? Get guranteed telvar limits upto 1000-2000 TV. Let the new players come. Put risk reward above 1000-2000 telvars. A new player wont even go beyond that.
This is not something new that other games are not doing.
This is literally stealing money from other players who paid for Imperial city DLC. Oh wait, we monopolize resource market. New player should not come to imperial city and farm telvars. They should be bleeded for gold. Lets always put risk reward as an excuse to farm.
Let's look at how this would actually play out from the perspective of various types of experienced players.
So your suggestion is that up to 1000 Tel Var, I will not lose any to enemy players.
Situation 1: I want to farm Tel Var. I head out of my alliance base with 100 TV for the multiplier and then run tight circles in the sewer areas nearest my base until I have close to 1000 stones, then head into my base and bank them. The biggest risk I run is walking into a wandering sewer boss. Rinse repeat until I have all the TV I want.
That's not broken at all. I'm getting the rewards of a PVP zone without any of the risk of PVP.
Okay, situation 2: I'm an experienced PVPer. I've got AP to burn. I grab my 100 TV for the multiplier, buy a Sigil of Imperial Retreat for 10K AP (chump change because I'm an experienced PVPer), head up to the districts and farm TV until I'm at 1000 TV, pop that sigil of retreat and bank my TV. The biggest risk I run is walking into a District boss. Rinse repeat until I have all the Tel Var I want.
That's not broken at all. I'm getting the rewards of a PVP zone without any risk of PVP.
Okay, situation 3: I'm experienced player, and I'm here to gank people. I carry 100 TV for the multiplier. Maybe even 1000 TV since I'm feeling frisky. Oh, darn, there are all these farmers running around with less than 1000K TV that I can't gank. Oh! There's somebody! Finally! *GANK*
If I lose, I lose nothing as long as I have under 1000 TV. There's no risk to failing a gank since I won't lose anything, I just have to respawn and try again.
If I win, I get Tel Var!
Sounds like a sweet deal for a ganker to me (aside from the people who are blatantly farming up to 1000TV without ever engaging in PVP in a PVP zone.)
Situation 4: The patient ganker. I'm a very patient ganker. The best place to lurk is right outside the other alliance home base and hope to gank people coming back with just slightly over 1000 TV before they bank it. The only risk I run is that I might get really bored waiting around for somebody to come by with over 1000 TV. As long as I have less than 1000k TV myself, I won't lose anything if I die.
Sounds like a sweet deal for a ganker for me (aside from the people who are blatantly farming up to 1000TV without ever engaging in PVP in a PVP zone.)
Once again, your solution can and will be taken advantage of by experienced players to farm Tel Var for little to no risk, thus completely devaluing Tel Var as a currency. Moreover, your suggestion actually reduces the risk of ganking since gankers no longer have to risk their own Tel Var if they are under your limit.
Tel Var is valuable precisely because farming it comes with the risk of losing 50% of what you carry if you die to an NPC or player.
You see the Problem is that It's all Greek and Latin to me, I never went beyond getting like 75 Tel Var. AP and Sigil are Greek and Latin for me. I don't know How Sewer Boss looks or How District Boss looks, Is boss a She ? Is She Hot ? Why Because I get Ganked as soon as I exit to Arena district for very first quest. I am an average player, I withstand a 200+ CP higher player than me to a point Where he realized he can't take me down, SO he was joined by 2-3 more of his frens, after that on every occasion they all attacked me together.
Next time When I went on AN ANNOUNCED stroll as A test, He was again immediately taken down by 2-3 players atleast one of whom was 720CP.
Was this ZOS's vision for imperial city ? If yes, then please remove Imperial City dlc from my access list Because I tell You what, This vision is complete failure and It fails to protect new players.
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swippy✭✭✭✭✭it's not meant to protect players. it's PvP.
it didn't fail at something it never set out to do.
and do you think those people watching their backs in the City were also keeping up with your topic on the forums? i think they might have been busy.Edited by swippy on March 23, 2018 4:30PM1 -
DocDova✭✭✭it's not meant to protect players. it's PvP.
and do you think those people watching their backs in the City were also keeping up with your topic on the forums? i think they might have been busy.
Oh Yeah ? They were all having same title 'Voice of reason' on their heads, After my announced stroll. As If I am being unreasonable here :banghead: (miss u vbulletin). If they weren't there for me, then it was a very weird coincidence.
Don't you think that's weird title to carry by a group in IC ?
How many Boxing/MMA/combat sports commissions would allow to put a 50 pound guy against four 300 pounds fighters, even if 50 pond guy gives his quote CONSENT unquote ?0 -
DocDova✭✭✭Anyways As I already mentioned my final views of the issue, If any of the reason is applicable for this, Send me a Private message. I would leave the issue.0
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swippy✭✭✭✭✭frankly, the assumption strikes me as quite a bit stranger.
you think three people went from the forums to the City and decided to hunt you, and all 3 people who decided to do this happened to have access to the same title, a title that they'd guess would just almost satirically stroke your ego, and PvP-ready characters in alliances that happened to oppose yours, and they managed to arrive at the gates right around the time you did? did you announce your alliance, or were there 3 more in each of the other alliances just in case you showed up?
i agree that that would be weird. incredible, even.
well, back on topic, the case that the nature of that entire game system should be changed has not been made. i wish you well in your future endeavors.Edited by swippy on March 23, 2018 5:18PM0 -
DocDova✭✭✭frankly, the assumption strikes me as quite a bit stranger.
you think three people went from the forums to the City and decided to hunt you, and all 3 people who decided to do this happened to have access to the same title, a title that they'd guess would just almost satirically stroke your ego, and PvP-ready characters in alliances that happened to oppose yours, and they managed to arrive at the gates right around the time you did? did you announce your alliance, or were there 3 more in each of the other alliances just in case you showed up?
i agree that that would be weird. incredible, even.
well, back on topic, the case that the nature of that entire game system should be changed has not been made. i wish you well in your future endeavors.
I actually announced that Now I am going to Imperial City and just announced again as I was about to enter Arena District. It won't be a great leap to imagine Many veteran players would have Maxed out players in every faction and some of them would be there in Imperial City to defend it from amateur strollers like me. 'Voice of reason' tag caught me and on one hand I appreciated the gesture and on the other hand it also got me thinking whether I am unwittingly getting involved is something which is not much important to me But might hold more significance to others ? As I already stated in my Final opinion on the issue (now I am just replying to posts, I have made up my mind on the issue) that If this somehow benefiting someone or ZOS has some good reason (other than We want it to be PvP only), then I will back out, But if it's some mad ego driven thing, Then I would stand against it.
Either way these type of things can't be said loud in public, SO I suggested If anyone can PM me real reason behind this, So I can finally close the chapter on this. I don't wanna make things harder for anyone, After my initial tantrums I am quite amicable guy, If one explain his/her side of story nicely. Though I make life very hard for people in top corridor of worldly powers But Gamers don't make me angry beyond initial hours.
No hard feelings, Just some closure would be nice.
I have no intentions of going back to IC (going in group is not my style), So Unless everyone unanimously decide to give me free walk of IC with proper salutation, I won't grace that dead city with my auspicious presence.
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Priyasekarssk wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Imagine telvar runs but with no risk. Would completly kill the vision zos had for the imperial city.Imagine telvar runs but with no risk. Would completly kill the vision zos had for the imperial city.
What vision ? Empty imperial city ? Getting bullied by experienced players ? Get guranteed telvar limits upto 1000-2000 TV. Let the new players come. Put risk reward above 1000-2000 telvars. A new player wont even go beyond that.
This is not something new that other games are not doing.
This is literally stealing money from other players who paid for Imperial city DLC. Oh wait, we monopolize resource market. New player should not come to imperial city and farm telvars. They should be bleeded for gold. Lets always put risk reward as an excuse to farm.
Let's look at how this would actually play out from the perspective of various types of experienced players.
So your suggestion is that up to 1000 Tel Var, I will not lose any to enemy players.
Situation 1: I want to farm Tel Var. I head out of my alliance base with 100 TV for the multiplier and then run tight circles in the sewer areas nearest my base until I have close to 1000 stones, then head into my base and bank them. The biggest risk I run is walking into a wandering sewer boss. Rinse repeat until I have all the TV I want.
That's not broken at all. I'm getting the rewards of a PVP zone without any of the risk of PVP.
Okay, situation 2: I'm an experienced PVPer. I've got AP to burn. I grab my 100 TV for the multiplier, buy a Sigil of Imperial Retreat for 10K AP (chump change because I'm an experienced PVPer), head up to the districts and farm TV until I'm at 1000 TV, pop that sigil of retreat and bank my TV. The biggest risk I run is walking into a District boss. Rinse repeat until I have all the Tel Var I want.
That's not broken at all. I'm getting the rewards of a PVP zone without any risk of PVP.
Okay, situation 3: I'm experienced player, and I'm here to gank people. I carry 100 TV for the multiplier. Maybe even 1000 TV since I'm feeling frisky. Oh, darn, there are all these farmers running around with less than 1000K TV that I can't gank. Oh! There's somebody! Finally! *GANK*
If I lose, I lose nothing as long as I have under 1000 TV. There's no risk to failing a gank since I won't lose anything, I just have to respawn and try again.
If I win, I get Tel Var!
Sounds like a sweet deal for a ganker to me (aside from the people who are blatantly farming up to 1000TV without ever engaging in PVP in a PVP zone.)
Situation 4: The patient ganker. I'm a very patient ganker. The best place to lurk is right outside the other alliance home base and hope to gank people coming back with just slightly over 1000 TV before they bank it. The only risk I run is that I might get really bored waiting around for somebody to come by with over 1000 TV. As long as I have less than 1000k TV myself, I won't lose anything if I die.
Sounds like a sweet deal for a ganker for me (aside from the people who are blatantly farming up to 1000TV without ever engaging in PVP in a PVP zone.)
Once again, your solution can and will be taken advantage of by experienced players to farm Tel Var for little to no risk, thus completely devaluing Tel Var as a currency. Moreover, your suggestion actually reduces the risk of ganking since gankers no longer have to risk their own Tel Var if they are under your limit.
Tel Var is valuable precisely because farming it comes with the risk of losing 50% of what you carry if you die to an NPC or player.
New players wont farm more than 2000 telvars max. They wont go after bosses until they become really comfortable. Gankers may wait all day and one shotting new bies. Nothing they will get for time spent. For this time they can go after bosses and a lot earn more , instead of lurking around enemy base. If experienced players only farming players as source of telvars for mere few hundreds good luck. I hardly think any experienced PVP player go for few hundred telvars, even nothing to lose. My target is around 5k-20k within per raid . Why would I waste time in lurking around new bies. I wont get that much even I dont lose anything. I know some people with max cp levels go for 10k-50K+ per raid. They not even consider farming new bies an option. Experienced players will go after bosses instead. Bosses sitting all day alone waiting .
Imperial city & sewers are desperately need of new players. Farming new bies has to be avoided until they get some taste of imperial city. ZOs already write off PVP DLC. There is no meaning of crying for PVP DLC when there are no buyers.
If you don't see that a problem with allowing someone to farm 2000 Tel Var at no risk, drop it off in the bank, and go farm another 2000 Tel Var at no risk while devaluing the currency, I don't really know what to tell you. That solution would primarily benefit experienced players who can farm with practically no risk, not just newbies trying to explore the Imperial City.
You claim not to have enough experience in IC to gain more than 75 telvar at one time and claim you don't even know what the sewer or district bosses are? If that's true, I don't think you have enough experience to evaluate possible solutions for how they will absolutely be taken advantage of by more experienced players.1 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Imagine telvar runs but with no risk. Would completly kill the vision zos had for the imperial city.Imagine telvar runs but with no risk. Would completly kill the vision zos had for the imperial city.
What vision ? Empty imperial city ? Getting bullied by experienced players ? Get guranteed telvar limits upto 1000-2000 TV. Let the new players come. Put risk reward above 1000-2000 telvars. A new player wont even go beyond that.
This is not something new that other games are not doing.
This is literally stealing money from other players who paid for Imperial city DLC. Oh wait, we monopolize resource market. New player should not come to imperial city and farm telvars. They should be bleeded for gold. Lets always put risk reward as an excuse to farm.
Let's look at how this would actually play out from the perspective of various types of experienced players.
So your suggestion is that up to 1000 Tel Var, I will not lose any to enemy players.
Situation 1: I want to farm Tel Var. I head out of my alliance base with 100 TV for the multiplier and then run tight circles in the sewer areas nearest my base until I have close to 1000 stones, then head into my base and bank them. The biggest risk I run is walking into a wandering sewer boss. Rinse repeat until I have all the TV I want.
That's not broken at all. I'm getting the rewards of a PVP zone without any of the risk of PVP.
Okay, situation 2: I'm an experienced PVPer. I've got AP to burn. I grab my 100 TV for the multiplier, buy a Sigil of Imperial Retreat for 10K AP (chump change because I'm an experienced PVPer), head up to the districts and farm TV until I'm at 1000 TV, pop that sigil of retreat and bank my TV. The biggest risk I run is walking into a District boss. Rinse repeat until I have all the Tel Var I want.
That's not broken at all. I'm getting the rewards of a PVP zone without any risk of PVP.
Okay, situation 3: I'm experienced player, and I'm here to gank people. I carry 100 TV for the multiplier. Maybe even 1000 TV since I'm feeling frisky. Oh, darn, there are all these farmers running around with less than 1000K TV that I can't gank. Oh! There's somebody! Finally! *GANK*
If I lose, I lose nothing as long as I have under 1000 TV. There's no risk to failing a gank since I won't lose anything, I just have to respawn and try again.
If I win, I get Tel Var!
Sounds like a sweet deal for a ganker to me (aside from the people who are blatantly farming up to 1000TV without ever engaging in PVP in a PVP zone.)
Situation 4: The patient ganker. I'm a very patient ganker. The best place to lurk is right outside the other alliance home base and hope to gank people coming back with just slightly over 1000 TV before they bank it. The only risk I run is that I might get really bored waiting around for somebody to come by with over 1000 TV. As long as I have less than 1000k TV myself, I won't lose anything if I die.
Sounds like a sweet deal for a ganker for me (aside from the people who are blatantly farming up to 1000TV without ever engaging in PVP in a PVP zone.)
Once again, your solution can and will be taken advantage of by experienced players to farm Tel Var for little to no risk, thus completely devaluing Tel Var as a currency. Moreover, your suggestion actually reduces the risk of ganking since gankers no longer have to risk their own Tel Var if they are under your limit.
Tel Var is valuable precisely because farming it comes with the risk of losing 50% of what you carry if you die to an NPC or player.
You see the Problem is that It's all Greek and Latin to me, I never went beyond getting like 75 Tel Var. AP and Sigil are Greek and Latin for me. I don't know How Sewer Boss looks or How District Boss looks, Is boss a She ? Is She Hot ? Why Because I get Ganked as soon as I exit to Arena district for very first quest. I am an average player, I withstand a 200+ CP higher player than me to a point Where he realized he can't take me down, SO he was joined by 2-3 more of his frens, after that on every occasion they all attacked me together.
Next time When I went on AN ANNOUNCED stroll as A test, He was again immediately taken down by 2-3 players atleast one of whom was 720CP.
Was this ZOS's vision for imperial city ? If yes, then please remove Imperial City dlc from my access list Because I tell You what, This vision is complete failure and It fails to protect new players.
AP = Alliance Points. Currency earned in PvP and used to buy gear, siege equipment and other items
Sewer Boss = Bosses that roam the Imperial sewers. You can tell they are close when you hear a beating heart sound. Hide. They will one-shot you and they have a very long leash.
District Bosses = Bosses that roam the districts of the Imperial City. There are 2 bosses that spawn randomly in each district. They are hard to kill, will one-shot you easily and drop Tel Var when killed.
Sigil of Imperial Retreat = And item you can buy with AP that allows you to teleport back to your base immediately. You see, getting into the districts is easy. Getting back to your base without dying is harder, because you have to go down to the sewers and make your way back. And you need to know which districts have the entrances closest to your alliance.
Another thing you may not know about PvP: If you sneak, other players can't see you. If you use invisibility potions, mobs can't see you either, so you can move around quite safely.
Also, the Imperial City district quests can be done in any order, so you don't have to start with the Arena. You can drop that quest and come back to it later.
Going in a group would be helpful and more fun, but you stated that's not your style, so there's nothing we can do about that.No hard feelings, Just some closure would be nice.
I have no intentions of going back to IC (going in group is not my style), So Unless everyone unanimously decide to give me free walk of IC with proper salutation, I won't grace that dead city with my auspicious presence.
I don't think you have behaved yourself in a manner deserving of that courtesy. :-P
The Moot Councillor1 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Imagine telvar runs but with no risk. Would completly kill the vision zos had for the imperial city.Imagine telvar runs but with no risk. Would completly kill the vision zos had for the imperial city.
What vision ? Empty imperial city ? Getting bullied by experienced players ? Get guranteed telvar limits upto 1000-2000 TV. Let the new players come. Put risk reward above 1000-2000 telvars. A new player wont even go beyond that.
This is not something new that other games are not doing.
This is literally stealing money from other players who paid for Imperial city DLC. Oh wait, we monopolize resource market. New player should not come to imperial city and farm telvars. They should be bleeded for gold. Lets always put risk reward as an excuse to farm.
Let's look at how this would actually play out from the perspective of various types of experienced players.
So your suggestion is that up to 1000 Tel Var, I will not lose any to enemy players.
Situation 1: I want to farm Tel Var. I head out of my alliance base with 100 TV for the multiplier and then run tight circles in the sewer areas nearest my base until I have close to 1000 stones, then head into my base and bank them. The biggest risk I run is walking into a wandering sewer boss. Rinse repeat until I have all the TV I want.
That's not broken at all. I'm getting the rewards of a PVP zone without any of the risk of PVP.
Okay, situation 2: I'm an experienced PVPer. I've got AP to burn. I grab my 100 TV for the multiplier, buy a Sigil of Imperial Retreat for 10K AP (chump change because I'm an experienced PVPer), head up to the districts and farm TV until I'm at 1000 TV, pop that sigil of retreat and bank my TV. The biggest risk I run is walking into a District boss. Rinse repeat until I have all the Tel Var I want.
That's not broken at all. I'm getting the rewards of a PVP zone without any risk of PVP.
Okay, situation 3: I'm experienced player, and I'm here to gank people. I carry 100 TV for the multiplier. Maybe even 1000 TV since I'm feeling frisky. Oh, darn, there are all these farmers running around with less than 1000K TV that I can't gank. Oh! There's somebody! Finally! *GANK*
If I lose, I lose nothing as long as I have under 1000 TV. There's no risk to failing a gank since I won't lose anything, I just have to respawn and try again.
If I win, I get Tel Var!
Sounds like a sweet deal for a ganker to me (aside from the people who are blatantly farming up to 1000TV without ever engaging in PVP in a PVP zone.)
Situation 4: The patient ganker. I'm a very patient ganker. The best place to lurk is right outside the other alliance home base and hope to gank people coming back with just slightly over 1000 TV before they bank it. The only risk I run is that I might get really bored waiting around for somebody to come by with over 1000 TV. As long as I have less than 1000k TV myself, I won't lose anything if I die.
Sounds like a sweet deal for a ganker for me (aside from the people who are blatantly farming up to 1000TV without ever engaging in PVP in a PVP zone.)
Once again, your solution can and will be taken advantage of by experienced players to farm Tel Var for little to no risk, thus completely devaluing Tel Var as a currency. Moreover, your suggestion actually reduces the risk of ganking since gankers no longer have to risk their own Tel Var if they are under your limit.
Tel Var is valuable precisely because farming it comes with the risk of losing 50% of what you carry if you die to an NPC or player.
New players wont farm more than 2000 telvars max. They wont go after bosses until they become really comfortable. Gankers may wait all day and one shotting new bies. Nothing they will get for time spent. For this time they can go after bosses and a lot earn more , instead of lurking around enemy base. If experienced players only farming players as source of telvars for mere few hundreds good luck. I hardly think any experienced PVP player go for few hundred telvars, even nothing to lose. My target is around 5k-20k within per raid . Why would I waste time in lurking around new bies. I wont get that much even I dont lose anything. I know some people with max cp levels go for 10k-50K+ per raid. They not even consider farming new bies an option. Experienced players will go after bosses instead. Bosses sitting all day alone waiting .
Imperial city & sewers are desperately need of new players. Farming new bies has to be avoided until they get some taste of imperial city. ZOs already write off PVP DLC. There is no meaning of crying for PVP DLC when there are no buyers.
If you don't see that a problem with allowing someone to farm 2000 Tel Var at no risk, drop it off in the bank, and go farm another 2000 Tel Var at no risk while devaluing the currency, I don't really know what to tell you. That solution would primarily benefit experienced players who can farm with practically no risk, not just newbies trying to explore the Imperial City.
You claim not to have enough experience in IC to gain more than 75 telvar at one time and claim you don't even know what the sewer or district bosses are? If that's true, I don't think you have enough experience to evaluate possible solutions for how they will absolutely be taken advantage of by more experienced players.
The person who claimed they only got 75 Tel Var and didn't know what District Bosses were was the OP, not the person you are quoting. Just FYI. :-)
The Moot Councillor0 -
swippy✭✭✭✭✭frankly, the assumption strikes me as quite a bit stranger.
you think three people went from the forums to the City and decided to hunt you, and all 3 people who decided to do this happened to have access to the same title, a title that they'd guess would just almost satirically stroke your ego, and PvP-ready characters in alliances that happened to oppose yours, and they managed to arrive at the gates right around the time you did? did you announce your alliance, or were there 3 more in each of the other alliances just in case you showed up?
i agree that that would be weird. incredible, even.
well, back on topic, the case that the nature of that entire game system should be changed has not been made. i wish you well in your future endeavors.
I actually announced that Now I am going to Imperial City and just announced again as I was about to enter Arena District. It won't be a great leap to imagine Many veteran players would have Maxed out players in every faction and some of them would be there in Imperial City to defend it from amateur strollers like me. 'Voice of reason' tag caught me and on one hand I appreciated the gesture and on the other hand it also got me thinking whether I am unwittingly getting involved is something which is not much important to me But might hold more significance to others ? As I already stated in my Final opinion on the issue (now I am just replying to posts, I have made up my mind on the issue) that If this somehow benefiting someone or ZOS has some good reason (other than We want it to be PvP only), then I will back out, But if it's some mad ego driven thing, Then I would stand against it.
Either way these type of things can't be said loud in public, SO I suggested If anyone can PM me real reason behind this, So I can finally close the chapter on this. I don't wanna make things harder for anyone, After my initial tantrums I am quite amicable guy, If one explain his/her side of story nicely. Though I make life very hard for people in top corridor of worldly powers But Gamers don't make me angry beyond initial hours.
No hard feelings, Just some closure would be nice.
I have no intentions of going back to IC (going in group is not my style), So Unless everyone unanimously decide to give me free walk of IC with proper salutation, I won't grace that dead city with my auspicious presence.
of course it's easy to imagine having alts. the part that doesn't approach feasibility is for all of those travel times to match up so precisely with yours, and for all backup alts to have that title available. if you don't PvP then you wouldn't be familiar with the logistics of this.
it's much more likely that you went into a PvP zone and players did what they always do there, and somebody happened to have a title on that for some reason you felt was directed at you. to imagine that there was a conspiracy that involved a group traveling to Cyrodiil just in time to arrive within minutes of you, and also having alts who could make that trip again within minutes in case they guessed your alliance wrong, but the map layout allowed it just then, specifically because of a forum post that the overwhelming majority of PvP-ready PS4 players -- all registered to a less popular campaign -- didn't see, strikes me as preposterous.
though, you did admit that the world revolves around you, it's still obvious that you don't grasp the logistics involved.
but i should not be wasting my time explaining this. best of luck.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭frankly, the assumption strikes me as quite a bit stranger.
you think three people went from the forums to the City and decided to hunt you, and all 3 people who decided to do this happened to have access to the same title, a title that they'd guess would just almost satirically stroke your ego, and PvP-ready characters in alliances that happened to oppose yours, and they managed to arrive at the gates right around the time you did? did you announce your alliance, or were there 3 more in each of the other alliances just in case you showed up?
i agree that that would be weird. incredible, even.
well, back on topic, the case that the nature of that entire game system should be changed has not been made. i wish you well in your future endeavors.
I actually announced that Now I am going to Imperial City and just announced again as I was about to enter Arena District. It won't be a great leap to imagine Many veteran players would have Maxed out players in every faction and some of them would be there in Imperial City to defend it from amateur strollers like me. 'Voice of reason' tag caught me and on one hand I appreciated the gesture and on the other hand it also got me thinking whether I am unwittingly getting involved is something which is not much important to me But might hold more significance to others ? As I already stated in my Final opinion on the issue (now I am just replying to posts, I have made up my mind on the issue) that If this somehow benefiting someone or ZOS has some good reason (other than We want it to be PvP only), then I will back out, But if it's some mad ego driven thing, Then I would stand against it.
Either way these type of things can't be said loud in public, SO I suggested If anyone can PM me real reason behind this, So I can finally close the chapter on this. I don't wanna make things harder for anyone, After my initial tantrums I am quite amicable guy, If one explain his/her side of story nicely. Though I make life very hard for people in top corridor of worldly powers But Gamers don't make me angry beyond initial hours.
No hard feelings, Just some closure would be nice.
I have no intentions of going back to IC (going in group is not my style), So Unless everyone unanimously decide to give me free walk of IC with proper salutation, I won't grace that dead city with my auspicious presence.
Okay, I'll bite that bait, one last time.
The real reason behind what?
Why there are PVP zones?
Because its a gameplay mode that many people enjoy that that is only possible in an MMO setting of the Elder Scrolls. You can't have PVP in a single-player game, so ESO is a great place to add it to the series.
Why can't I opt out of PVP in a PVP zone?
This one gets a little more complicated, but it boils down to ZOS wanting you to experience the entire game.
We see this because ZOS locked certain achievements for experiencing the entire game to force players to go into Cyrodiil. If you want Master Angler, Skyshard Hunter, questing, dolmens, and exploration, you have to at least go to a PVP zone, Cyrodiil. If you want all the Alliance War skill points, dyes, and skills, you have to actually PVP. These achievements are designed with the threat of PVP in mind and ZOS clearly expects players getting them to PVP. For example, 4 skyshards are locked behind enemy gates. You mind never strike a blow in anger, but your faction has to capture the keeps necessary to open the gate so you can get the skyshard. PVP is required.
But seriously, I hate PVP. Why can't I have a PVE-only version of Cyrodiil and Imperial City?
Because ZOS wants you to have at least some experience in both PVE and PVP. A community where PVEers only PVE and PVPers only PVP is a community that struggles to understand each other. Since ZOS is committed to balancing PVE and PVP together, it makes sense that they need to create a community where most players have at least a little experience in all gameplay modes. That makes it much easier when ZOS has to rebalance or make alterations (I see this a lot in this thread, where frankly some of the suggestions show a lot of inexperience in knowing how the Imperial City works). The more experienced players are in both environments, the better game development goes. If you take a look at the new ESO Representative thread, ZOS specifically asks for The selected players should have a deep understanding of at least one class, with extensive knowledge involving abilities, itemization, solo and group play in both PvE and PvP scenarios." If you want to grow players who are experienced in both areas, you have to design a game that encourages people to experience both areas.
Furthermore, making a PVE-only version would involve a lot of re-balancing. They'd have to turn off or remove the PVP functionality (I doubt its as simple as turning it off). Because many of the achievements and Tel Var currency are designed to be done under the threat of PVP, they'd have to strip down the achievements and cut out Tel Var completely or risk devaluing the currency (they've tied housing storage to Tel Var, they won't risk devaluing it). They'd have to design a new transit system for Imperial City, which currently uses the PVP flags to determine District respawn points. They'd have to redo the quest rewards, because Cyrodiil quests give AP and IC quests give Tel Var in addition to the normal gold.
Therefore, making a PVE-Only version of Cyrodiil and Imperial City would hinder ZOS' desire to get players to experience both PVE and PVP. (For a similar reason, ZOS does not listen to the pleas of PVPers who really wish there were another way to get Undaunted passives.)
Why do PVPers have to be so mean?
Because its Player versus Player. Seriously. Its player vs player. There are no "I'm just here for the quest!" signs that anyone has to pay attention to - see my answer about ZOS wanting everyone to experience ALL of the game.
Various players will act in various ways. I've been ganked while fishing. I've had two players stop chasing me because I started fishing. It depends.
If you are in the enemy faction, no one is required to let you go. Also, no one in the enemy faction can read your zone chat messages which might be why they attacked you. They literally didn't hear you say "Hey, just there for questing."
I'm new and inexperienced. I die in 2 seconds. PVP sucks. ZOS seriously wants me to PVP? Then why does it suck?
Here's a couple things about how PVP is designed to suck less. Because the learning curve does suck. I know. I went from PVE-only fisher to regularly playing in PVP. The learning curve kinda sucks.
1. If you are new and low level, play in the below level 50 Kyne campaign. There are still experienced players there, but you'll have other newbies and lowbies to keep you company.
2. If you are concerned that you don't have the champion points to go toe to toe with other players, play in the No CP campaign Sotha Sil.
3. If you want to play in an emptier CP campaign, try Shor. Shor is where I go when I want to farm Tel Var because I'm less likely to run into groups of other players. If I want to fight, i go to Vivec, because Vivec is the most competitive campaign on PC/NA.
And most importantly, get a group together. Cyrodiil is designed for groups of 2 to 24 players. LFG in zone. In Imperial City, a small group will cut down on your Tel Var gains, but safety in numbers is definitely something you could consider for tel var farming or for questing. I didn't begin to get better at PVP until I found a group. I found a couple of guilds I liked, and eventually joined a PVP guild that helped train me and made me much better at PVP.
So the learning curve doesn't have to completely suck. You do have to work at it and you can't expect enemy players to go easy on you.
I don't know if anything there actually addressed your concerned, though I can't believe I didn't realize this before now. You know why the enemy attacked you in the Arena District? They never saw your message! Its a PVP zone. PVP zones have alliance-locked chat. Only members of your own alliance can read your chat, for obvious reasons. So they had no way of knowing your peaceful intentions and ganked you like they would anyone wandering around.
3 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I actually announced that Now I am going to Imperial City and just announced again as I was about to enter Arena District.
I just said this on the other comment, but I wanted to make sure it didn't get lost in it, since that one is rather lengthy.
You do know that the chat in PVP zones is alliance-locked, right? Only people of your own alliance could hear whatever you announced. The enemy doesn't hear that and /say chat is limited in range.
1 -
Priyasekarssk✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Imagine telvar runs but with no risk. Would completly kill the vision zos had for the imperial city.Imagine telvar runs but with no risk. Would completly kill the vision zos had for the imperial city.
What vision ? Empty imperial city ? Getting bullied by experienced players ? Get guranteed telvar limits upto 1000-2000 TV. Let the new players come. Put risk reward above 1000-2000 telvars. A new player wont even go beyond that.
This is not something new that other games are not doing.
This is literally stealing money from other players who paid for Imperial city DLC. Oh wait, we monopolize resource market. New player should not come to imperial city and farm telvars. They should be bleeded for gold. Lets always put risk reward as an excuse to farm.
Let's look at how this would actually play out from the perspective of various types of experienced players.
So your suggestion is that up to 1000 Tel Var, I will not lose any to enemy players.
Situation 1: I want to farm Tel Var. I head out of my alliance base with 100 TV for the multiplier and then run tight circles in the sewer areas nearest my base until I have close to 1000 stones, then head into my base and bank them. The biggest risk I run is walking into a wandering sewer boss. Rinse repeat until I have all the TV I want.
That's not broken at all. I'm getting the rewards of a PVP zone without any of the risk of PVP.
Okay, situation 2: I'm an experienced PVPer. I've got AP to burn. I grab my 100 TV for the multiplier, buy a Sigil of Imperial Retreat for 10K AP (chump change because I'm an experienced PVPer), head up to the districts and farm TV until I'm at 1000 TV, pop that sigil of retreat and bank my TV. The biggest risk I run is walking into a District boss. Rinse repeat until I have all the Tel Var I want.
That's not broken at all. I'm getting the rewards of a PVP zone without any risk of PVP.
Okay, situation 3: I'm experienced player, and I'm here to gank people. I carry 100 TV for the multiplier. Maybe even 1000 TV since I'm feeling frisky. Oh, darn, there are all these farmers running around with less than 1000K TV that I can't gank. Oh! There's somebody! Finally! *GANK*
If I lose, I lose nothing as long as I have under 1000 TV. There's no risk to failing a gank since I won't lose anything, I just have to respawn and try again.
If I win, I get Tel Var!
Sounds like a sweet deal for a ganker to me (aside from the people who are blatantly farming up to 1000TV without ever engaging in PVP in a PVP zone.)
Situation 4: The patient ganker. I'm a very patient ganker. The best place to lurk is right outside the other alliance home base and hope to gank people coming back with just slightly over 1000 TV before they bank it. The only risk I run is that I might get really bored waiting around for somebody to come by with over 1000 TV. As long as I have less than 1000k TV myself, I won't lose anything if I die.
Sounds like a sweet deal for a ganker for me (aside from the people who are blatantly farming up to 1000TV without ever engaging in PVP in a PVP zone.)
Once again, your solution can and will be taken advantage of by experienced players to farm Tel Var for little to no risk, thus completely devaluing Tel Var as a currency. Moreover, your suggestion actually reduces the risk of ganking since gankers no longer have to risk their own Tel Var if they are under your limit.
Tel Var is valuable precisely because farming it comes with the risk of losing 50% of what you carry if you die to an NPC or player.
New players wont farm more than 2000 telvars max. They wont go after bosses until they become really comfortable. Gankers may wait all day and one shotting new bies. Nothing they will get for time spent. For this time they can go after bosses and a lot earn more , instead of lurking around enemy base. If experienced players only farming players as source of telvars for mere few hundreds good luck. I hardly think any experienced PVP player go for few hundred telvars, even nothing to lose. My target is around 5k-20k within per raid . Why would I waste time in lurking around new bies. I wont get that much even I dont lose anything. I know some people with max cp levels go for 10k-50K+ per raid. They not even consider farming new bies an option. Experienced players will go after bosses instead. Bosses sitting all day alone waiting .
Imperial city & sewers are desperately need of new players. Farming new bies has to be avoided until they get some taste of imperial city. ZOs already write off PVP DLC. There is no meaning of crying for PVP DLC when there are no buyers.
If you don't see that a problem with allowing someone to farm 2000 Tel Var at no risk, drop it off in the bank, and go farm another 2000 Tel Var at no risk while devaluing the currency, I don't really know what to tell you. That solution would primarily benefit experienced players who can farm with practically no risk, not just newbies trying to explore the Imperial City.
You claim not to have enough experience in IC to gain more than 75 telvar at one time and claim you don't even know what the sewer or district bosses are? If that's true, I don't think you have enough experience to evaluate possible solutions for how they will absolutely be taken advantage of by more experienced players.
I would even consider a person a experienced player , if he considers anything above 5K range and target IC bosses. Atleast 5k is the base target per raid. 1000 -2000 telvars is pretty low amount even for an average experienced player for a TV raid. If an experienced player as you quote goes for 1000 TV for every raid , I wont even consider him an experienced player. He just loses the multiplier of 1000 TV. That is a 33 percent loss. No experienced player in sane mind go for that. If you evaluate 1000 telvars as a parameter for an experienced player and exploit it good luck with that. They should hack or slash something in IC until they become comfortable. Main objective new player should not be targeted as a vengeance. Even if targeted it should be a time waster to experienced player.
Whats the meaning of running ghost towns ?Edited by Priyasekarssk on March 23, 2018 8:50PM0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Priyasekarssk wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Imagine telvar runs but with no risk. Would completly kill the vision zos had for the imperial city.Imagine telvar runs but with no risk. Would completly kill the vision zos had for the imperial city.
What vision ? Empty imperial city ? Getting bullied by experienced players ? Get guranteed telvar limits upto 1000-2000 TV. Let the new players come. Put risk reward above 1000-2000 telvars. A new player wont even go beyond that.
This is not something new that other games are not doing.
This is literally stealing money from other players who paid for Imperial city DLC. Oh wait, we monopolize resource market. New player should not come to imperial city and farm telvars. They should be bleeded for gold. Lets always put risk reward as an excuse to farm.
Let's look at how this would actually play out from the perspective of various types of experienced players.
So your suggestion is that up to 1000 Tel Var, I will not lose any to enemy players.
Situation 1: I want to farm Tel Var. I head out of my alliance base with 100 TV for the multiplier and then run tight circles in the sewer areas nearest my base until I have close to 1000 stones, then head into my base and bank them. The biggest risk I run is walking into a wandering sewer boss. Rinse repeat until I have all the TV I want.
That's not broken at all. I'm getting the rewards of a PVP zone without any of the risk of PVP.
Okay, situation 2: I'm an experienced PVPer. I've got AP to burn. I grab my 100 TV for the multiplier, buy a Sigil of Imperial Retreat for 10K AP (chump change because I'm an experienced PVPer), head up to the districts and farm TV until I'm at 1000 TV, pop that sigil of retreat and bank my TV. The biggest risk I run is walking into a District boss. Rinse repeat until I have all the Tel Var I want.
That's not broken at all. I'm getting the rewards of a PVP zone without any risk of PVP.
Okay, situation 3: I'm experienced player, and I'm here to gank people. I carry 100 TV for the multiplier. Maybe even 1000 TV since I'm feeling frisky. Oh, darn, there are all these farmers running around with less than 1000K TV that I can't gank. Oh! There's somebody! Finally! *GANK*
If I lose, I lose nothing as long as I have under 1000 TV. There's no risk to failing a gank since I won't lose anything, I just have to respawn and try again.
If I win, I get Tel Var!
Sounds like a sweet deal for a ganker to me (aside from the people who are blatantly farming up to 1000TV without ever engaging in PVP in a PVP zone.)
Situation 4: The patient ganker. I'm a very patient ganker. The best place to lurk is right outside the other alliance home base and hope to gank people coming back with just slightly over 1000 TV before they bank it. The only risk I run is that I might get really bored waiting around for somebody to come by with over 1000 TV. As long as I have less than 1000k TV myself, I won't lose anything if I die.
Sounds like a sweet deal for a ganker for me (aside from the people who are blatantly farming up to 1000TV without ever engaging in PVP in a PVP zone.)
Once again, your solution can and will be taken advantage of by experienced players to farm Tel Var for little to no risk, thus completely devaluing Tel Var as a currency. Moreover, your suggestion actually reduces the risk of ganking since gankers no longer have to risk their own Tel Var if they are under your limit.
Tel Var is valuable precisely because farming it comes with the risk of losing 50% of what you carry if you die to an NPC or player.
New players wont farm more than 2000 telvars max. They wont go after bosses until they become really comfortable. Gankers may wait all day and one shotting new bies. Nothing they will get for time spent. For this time they can go after bosses and a lot earn more , instead of lurking around enemy base. If experienced players only farming players as source of telvars for mere few hundreds good luck. I hardly think any experienced PVP player go for few hundred telvars, even nothing to lose. My target is around 5k-20k within per raid . Why would I waste time in lurking around new bies. I wont get that much even I dont lose anything. I know some people with max cp levels go for 10k-50K+ per raid. They not even consider farming new bies an option. Experienced players will go after bosses instead. Bosses sitting all day alone waiting .
Imperial city & sewers are desperately need of new players. Farming new bies has to be avoided until they get some taste of imperial city. ZOs already write off PVP DLC. There is no meaning of crying for PVP DLC when there are no buyers.
If you don't see that a problem with allowing someone to farm 2000 Tel Var at no risk, drop it off in the bank, and go farm another 2000 Tel Var at no risk while devaluing the currency, I don't really know what to tell you. That solution would primarily benefit experienced players who can farm with practically no risk, not just newbies trying to explore the Imperial City.
You claim not to have enough experience in IC to gain more than 75 telvar at one time and claim you don't even know what the sewer or district bosses are? If that's true, I don't think you have enough experience to evaluate possible solutions for how they will absolutely be taken advantage of by more experienced players.
I would even consider a person a experienced player , if he considers anything above 5K range and target IC bosses. Atleast 5k is the base target per raid. 1000 -2000 telvars is pretty low amount even for an average experienced player for a TV raid. If an experienced player as you quote goes for 1000 TV for every raid , I wont even consider him an experienced player. He just loses the multiplier of 1000 TV. That is a 33 percent loss. No experienced player in sane mind go for that. If you evaluate 1000 telvars as a parameter for an experienced player and exploit it good luck with that.
I'm an experienced PVPer. I've gone for the 10-15K Tel Var you say is the experienced PVPers goal and succeeded.
If there's an option to farm Tel Var in increments of 1000 that means I don't have to risk losing half my Tel Var, you better believe I'm going to gather and bank my Tel Var in increments of 1000. That's clearly the safer way to gather lots and lots of Tel Var! It'd be pretty easy, i told you exactly how I'd do it.
But that would also be completely broken and utterly devalue Tel Var. Which I think is a problem. If you don't, I'm not sure that we're having the same discussion.
Your suggestions break more than they fix and betray a certain naivety about what players will and will not do to abuse the system.1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Priyasekarssk wrote: »Whats the meaning of running ghost towns ?
You mean this?Go to Sotha Sil. It's a ghost town.
A ghost town is an empty area.
I find that I prefer PC/NA Shor when I want to farm because its less likely I'll run into groups of players. I prefer PC/NA Vivec when I want a fight because that's the most competitive campaign.
My problem with Sotha Sil is that fighting all the mini-bosses with no CP wasn't that enjoyable the last time I did it on a non-DPS character, and I never play Kyne because I'm experienced enough to play on Vivec on my low-level characters.0 -
Priyasekarssk✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Imagine telvar runs but with no risk. Would completly kill the vision zos had for the imperial city.Imagine telvar runs but with no risk. Would completly kill the vision zos had for the imperial city.
What vision ? Empty imperial city ? Getting bullied by experienced players ? Get guranteed telvar limits upto 1000-2000 TV. Let the new players come. Put risk reward above 1000-2000 telvars. A new player wont even go beyond that.
This is not something new that other games are not doing.
This is literally stealing money from other players who paid for Imperial city DLC. Oh wait, we monopolize resource market. New player should not come to imperial city and farm telvars. They should be bleeded for gold. Lets always put risk reward as an excuse to farm.
Let's look at how this would actually play out from the perspective of various types of experienced players.
So your suggestion is that up to 1000 Tel Var, I will not lose any to enemy players.
Situation 1: I want to farm Tel Var. I head out of my alliance base with 100 TV for the multiplier and then run tight circles in the sewer areas nearest my base until I have close to 1000 stones, then head into my base and bank them. The biggest risk I run is walking into a wandering sewer boss. Rinse repeat until I have all the TV I want.
That's not broken at all. I'm getting the rewards of a PVP zone without any of the risk of PVP.
Okay, situation 2: I'm an experienced PVPer. I've got AP to burn. I grab my 100 TV for the multiplier, buy a Sigil of Imperial Retreat for 10K AP (chump change because I'm an experienced PVPer), head up to the districts and farm TV until I'm at 1000 TV, pop that sigil of retreat and bank my TV. The biggest risk I run is walking into a District boss. Rinse repeat until I have all the Tel Var I want.
That's not broken at all. I'm getting the rewards of a PVP zone without any risk of PVP.
Okay, situation 3: I'm experienced player, and I'm here to gank people. I carry 100 TV for the multiplier. Maybe even 1000 TV since I'm feeling frisky. Oh, darn, there are all these farmers running around with less than 1000K TV that I can't gank. Oh! There's somebody! Finally! *GANK*
If I lose, I lose nothing as long as I have under 1000 TV. There's no risk to failing a gank since I won't lose anything, I just have to respawn and try again.
If I win, I get Tel Var!
Sounds like a sweet deal for a ganker to me (aside from the people who are blatantly farming up to 1000TV without ever engaging in PVP in a PVP zone.)
Situation 4: The patient ganker. I'm a very patient ganker. The best place to lurk is right outside the other alliance home base and hope to gank people coming back with just slightly over 1000 TV before they bank it. The only risk I run is that I might get really bored waiting around for somebody to come by with over 1000 TV. As long as I have less than 1000k TV myself, I won't lose anything if I die.
Sounds like a sweet deal for a ganker for me (aside from the people who are blatantly farming up to 1000TV without ever engaging in PVP in a PVP zone.)
Once again, your solution can and will be taken advantage of by experienced players to farm Tel Var for little to no risk, thus completely devaluing Tel Var as a currency. Moreover, your suggestion actually reduces the risk of ganking since gankers no longer have to risk their own Tel Var if they are under your limit.
Tel Var is valuable precisely because farming it comes with the risk of losing 50% of what you carry if you die to an NPC or player.
New players wont farm more than 2000 telvars max. They wont go after bosses until they become really comfortable. Gankers may wait all day and one shotting new bies. Nothing they will get for time spent. For this time they can go after bosses and a lot earn more , instead of lurking around enemy base. If experienced players only farming players as source of telvars for mere few hundreds good luck. I hardly think any experienced PVP player go for few hundred telvars, even nothing to lose. My target is around 5k-20k within per raid . Why would I waste time in lurking around new bies. I wont get that much even I dont lose anything. I know some people with max cp levels go for 10k-50K+ per raid. They not even consider farming new bies an option. Experienced players will go after bosses instead. Bosses sitting all day alone waiting .
Imperial city & sewers are desperately need of new players. Farming new bies has to be avoided until they get some taste of imperial city. ZOs already write off PVP DLC. There is no meaning of crying for PVP DLC when there are no buyers.
If you don't see that a problem with allowing someone to farm 2000 Tel Var at no risk, drop it off in the bank, and go farm another 2000 Tel Var at no risk while devaluing the currency, I don't really know what to tell you. That solution would primarily benefit experienced players who can farm with practically no risk, not just newbies trying to explore the Imperial City.
You claim not to have enough experience in IC to gain more than 75 telvar at one time and claim you don't even know what the sewer or district bosses are? If that's true, I don't think you have enough experience to evaluate possible solutions for how they will absolutely be taken advantage of by more experienced players.
I would even consider a person a experienced player , if he considers anything above 5K range and target IC bosses. Atleast 5k is the base target per raid. 1000 -2000 telvars is pretty low amount even for an average experienced player for a TV raid. If an experienced player as you quote goes for 1000 TV for every raid , I wont even consider him an experienced player. He just loses the multiplier of 1000 TV. That is a 33 percent loss. No experienced player in sane mind go for that. If you evaluate 1000 telvars as a parameter for an experienced player and exploit it good luck with that.
I'm an experienced PVPer. I've gone for the 10-15K Tel Var you say is the experienced PVPers goal and succeeded.
If there's an option to farm Tel Var in increments of 1000 that means I don't have to risk losing half my Tel Var, you better believe I'm going to gather and bank my Tel Var in increments of 1000. That's clearly the safer way to gather lots and lots of Tel Var! It'd be pretty easy, i told you exactly how I'd do it.
But that would also be completely broken and utterly devalue Tel Var. Which I think is a problem. If you don't, I'm not sure that we're having the same discussion.
Your suggestions break more than they fix and betray a certain naivety about what players will and will not do to abuse the system.
Again , you are not getting my point. If you do in increments for 1000 you are losing 33 percent for telvars. Its huge loss for risking mere 500 telvars. Good luck. If you target bosses you would easily go past 5000 telvars in no time. It wont and cannot be abused by experienced player. Any experienced player in sane mind wont do that.Edited by Priyasekarssk on March 23, 2018 8:56PM0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Priyasekarssk wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Imagine telvar runs but with no risk. Would completly kill the vision zos had for the imperial city.Imagine telvar runs but with no risk. Would completly kill the vision zos had for the imperial city.
What vision ? Empty imperial city ? Getting bullied by experienced players ? Get guranteed telvar limits upto 1000-2000 TV. Let the new players come. Put risk reward above 1000-2000 telvars. A new player wont even go beyond that.
This is not something new that other games are not doing.
This is literally stealing money from other players who paid for Imperial city DLC. Oh wait, we monopolize resource market. New player should not come to imperial city and farm telvars. They should be bleeded for gold. Lets always put risk reward as an excuse to farm.
Let's look at how this would actually play out from the perspective of various types of experienced players.
So your suggestion is that up to 1000 Tel Var, I will not lose any to enemy players.
Situation 1: I want to farm Tel Var. I head out of my alliance base with 100 TV for the multiplier and then run tight circles in the sewer areas nearest my base until I have close to 1000 stones, then head into my base and bank them. The biggest risk I run is walking into a wandering sewer boss. Rinse repeat until I have all the TV I want.
That's not broken at all. I'm getting the rewards of a PVP zone without any of the risk of PVP.
Okay, situation 2: I'm an experienced PVPer. I've got AP to burn. I grab my 100 TV for the multiplier, buy a Sigil of Imperial Retreat for 10K AP (chump change because I'm an experienced PVPer), head up to the districts and farm TV until I'm at 1000 TV, pop that sigil of retreat and bank my TV. The biggest risk I run is walking into a District boss. Rinse repeat until I have all the Tel Var I want.
That's not broken at all. I'm getting the rewards of a PVP zone without any risk of PVP.
Okay, situation 3: I'm experienced player, and I'm here to gank people. I carry 100 TV for the multiplier. Maybe even 1000 TV since I'm feeling frisky. Oh, darn, there are all these farmers running around with less than 1000K TV that I can't gank. Oh! There's somebody! Finally! *GANK*
If I lose, I lose nothing as long as I have under 1000 TV. There's no risk to failing a gank since I won't lose anything, I just have to respawn and try again.
If I win, I get Tel Var!
Sounds like a sweet deal for a ganker to me (aside from the people who are blatantly farming up to 1000TV without ever engaging in PVP in a PVP zone.)
Situation 4: The patient ganker. I'm a very patient ganker. The best place to lurk is right outside the other alliance home base and hope to gank people coming back with just slightly over 1000 TV before they bank it. The only risk I run is that I might get really bored waiting around for somebody to come by with over 1000 TV. As long as I have less than 1000k TV myself, I won't lose anything if I die.
Sounds like a sweet deal for a ganker for me (aside from the people who are blatantly farming up to 1000TV without ever engaging in PVP in a PVP zone.)
Once again, your solution can and will be taken advantage of by experienced players to farm Tel Var for little to no risk, thus completely devaluing Tel Var as a currency. Moreover, your suggestion actually reduces the risk of ganking since gankers no longer have to risk their own Tel Var if they are under your limit.
Tel Var is valuable precisely because farming it comes with the risk of losing 50% of what you carry if you die to an NPC or player.
New players wont farm more than 2000 telvars max. They wont go after bosses until they become really comfortable. Gankers may wait all day and one shotting new bies. Nothing they will get for time spent. For this time they can go after bosses and a lot earn more , instead of lurking around enemy base. If experienced players only farming players as source of telvars for mere few hundreds good luck. I hardly think any experienced PVP player go for few hundred telvars, even nothing to lose. My target is around 5k-20k within per raid . Why would I waste time in lurking around new bies. I wont get that much even I dont lose anything. I know some people with max cp levels go for 10k-50K+ per raid. They not even consider farming new bies an option. Experienced players will go after bosses instead. Bosses sitting all day alone waiting .
Imperial city & sewers are desperately need of new players. Farming new bies has to be avoided until they get some taste of imperial city. ZOs already write off PVP DLC. There is no meaning of crying for PVP DLC when there are no buyers.
If you don't see that a problem with allowing someone to farm 2000 Tel Var at no risk, drop it off in the bank, and go farm another 2000 Tel Var at no risk while devaluing the currency, I don't really know what to tell you. That solution would primarily benefit experienced players who can farm with practically no risk, not just newbies trying to explore the Imperial City.
You claim not to have enough experience in IC to gain more than 75 telvar at one time and claim you don't even know what the sewer or district bosses are? If that's true, I don't think you have enough experience to evaluate possible solutions for how they will absolutely be taken advantage of by more experienced players.
I would even consider a person a experienced player , if he considers anything above 5K range and target IC bosses. Atleast 5k is the base target per raid. 1000 -2000 telvars is pretty low amount even for an average experienced player for a TV raid. If an experienced player as you quote goes for 1000 TV for every raid , I wont even consider him an experienced player. He just loses the multiplier of 1000 TV. That is a 33 percent loss. No experienced player in sane mind go for that. If you evaluate 1000 telvars as a parameter for an experienced player and exploit it good luck with that.
I'm an experienced PVPer. I've gone for the 10-15K Tel Var you say is the experienced PVPers goal and succeeded.
If there's an option to farm Tel Var in increments of 1000 that means I don't have to risk losing half my Tel Var, you better believe I'm going to gather and bank my Tel Var in increments of 1000. That's clearly the safer way to gather lots and lots of Tel Var! It'd be pretty easy, i told you exactly how I'd do it.
But that would also be completely broken and utterly devalue Tel Var. Which I think is a problem. If you don't, I'm not sure that we're having the same discussion.
Your suggestions break more than they fix and betray a certain naivety about what players will and will not do to abuse the system.
Again , you are not getting my point. If you do in increments for 1000 you are losing 33 percent for telvars. Its huge loss for risking mere 500 telvars. Good luck. If you target bosses you would easily go past 5000 telvars in no time. It wont and cannot be abused by experienced player. Any experienced player in sane mind wont do that.
I'm trading the extra 3x multiplier for carrying over 1000 TV for the complete freedom to get all 900 of my TV, not counting the original 100 I'd start with back, as many times as I want to do that. Short, small trips around the sewers or a district only staying out past 1000 TV if I thought there weren't gankers about.
The players who target bosses might not use my method. Players who just want to quickly grind TV, bank it, grind TV, bank it, would. That's why I'd do it. Its slightly less efficient but its much lower risk.1 -
swippy✭✭✭✭✭less efficient time-wise, but way more efficient by risk and effort standards.
some people play for the coolest new skins, some people are Master Anglers. they can both be sane. if different people didn't play different ways we wouldn't even be talking about this.1 -
DocDova✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »
Okay, I'll bite that bait, one last time.
The real reason behind what?
Why there are PVP zones?
Because its a gameplay mode that many people enjoy that that is only possible in an MMO setting of the Elder Scrolls. You can't have PVP in a single-player game, so ESO is a great place to add it to the series.
Why can't I opt out of PVP in a PVP zone?
This one gets a little more complicated, but it boils down to ZOS wanting you to experience the entire game.
We see this because ZOS locked certain achievements for experiencing the entire game to force players to go into Cyrodiil. If you want Master Angler, Skyshard Hunter, questing, dolmens, and exploration, you have to at least go to a PVP zone, Cyrodiil. If you want all the Alliance War skill points, dyes, and skills, you have to actually PVP. These achievements are designed with the threat of PVP in mind and ZOS clearly expects players getting them to PVP. For example, 4 skyshards are locked behind enemy gates. You mind never strike a blow in anger, but your faction has to capture the keeps necessary to open the gate so you can get the skyshard. PVP is required.
But seriously, I hate PVP. Why can't I have a PVE-only version of Cyrodiil and Imperial City?
Because ZOS wants you to have at least some experience in both PVE and PVP. A community where PVEers only PVE and PVPers only PVP is a community that struggles to understand each other. Since ZOS is committed to balancing PVE and PVP together, it makes sense that they need to create a community where most players have at least a little experience in all gameplay modes. That makes it much easier when ZOS has to rebalance or make alterations (I see this a lot in this thread, where frankly some of the suggestions show a lot of inexperience in knowing how the Imperial City works). The more experienced players are in both environments, the better game development goes. If you take a look at the new ESO Representative thread, ZOS specifically asks for The selected players should have a deep understanding of at least one class, with extensive knowledge involving abilities, itemization, solo and group play in both PvE and PvP scenarios." If you want to grow players who are experienced in both areas, you have to design a game that encourages people to experience both areas.
Furthermore, making a PVE-only version would involve a lot of re-balancing. They'd have to turn off or remove the PVP functionality (I doubt its as simple as turning it off). Because many of the achievements and Tel Var currency are designed to be done under the threat of PVP, they'd have to strip down the achievements and cut out Tel Var completely or risk devaluing the currency (they've tied housing storage to Tel Var, they won't risk devaluing it). They'd have to design a new transit system for Imperial City, which currently uses the PVP flags to determine District respawn points. They'd have to redo the quest rewards, because Cyrodiil quests give AP and IC quests give Tel Var in addition to the normal gold.
Therefore, making a PVE-Only version of Cyrodiil and Imperial City would hinder ZOS' desire to get players to experience both PVE and PVP. (For a similar reason, ZOS does not listen to the pleas of PVPers who really wish there were another way to get Undaunted passives.)
Why do PVPers have to be so mean?
Because its Player versus Player. Seriously. Its player vs player. There are no "I'm just here for the quest!" signs that anyone has to pay attention to - see my answer about ZOS wanting everyone to experience ALL of the game.
Various players will act in various ways. I've been ganked while fishing. I've had two players stop chasing me because I started fishing. It depends.
If you are in the enemy faction, no one is required to let you go. Also, no one in the enemy faction can read your zone chat messages which might be why they attacked you. They literally didn't hear you say "Hey, just there for questing."
I'm new and inexperienced. I die in 2 seconds. PVP sucks. ZOS seriously wants me to PVP? Then why does it suck?
Here's a couple things about how PVP is designed to suck less. Because the learning curve does suck. I know. I went from PVE-only fisher to regularly playing in PVP. The learning curve kinda sucks.
1. If you are new and low level, play in the below level 50 Kyne campaign. There are still experienced players there, but you'll have other newbies and lowbies to keep you company.
2. If you are concerned that you don't have the champion points to go toe to toe with other players, play in the No CP campaign Sotha Sil.
3. If you want to play in an emptier CP campaign, try Shor. Shor is where I go when I want to farm Tel Var because I'm less likely to run into groups of other players. If I want to fight, i go to Vivec, because Vivec is the most competitive campaign on PC/NA.
And most importantly, get a group together. Cyrodiil is designed for groups of 2 to 24 players. LFG in zone. In Imperial City, a small group will cut down on your Tel Var gains, but safety in numbers is definitely something you could consider for tel var farming or for questing. I didn't begin to get better at PVP until I found a group. I found a couple of guilds I liked, and eventually joined a PVP guild that helped train me and made me much better at PVP.
So the learning curve doesn't have to completely suck. You do have to work at it and you can't expect enemy players to go easy on you.
I don't know if anything there actually addressed your concerned, though I can't believe I didn't realize this before now. You know why the enemy attacked you in the Arena District? They never saw your message! Its a PVP zone. PVP zones have alliance-locked chat. Only members of your own alliance can read your chat, for obvious reasons. So they had no way of knowing your peaceful intentions and ganked you like they would anyone wandering around.
I appreciate you taking the efforts to explain it to me and I am adding 'Awesome' for that. I agree that ZOS wants me to experience every aspect of the game, Just like real life one should experience everything once. I just realized how much I am missing, Life is too short and .....
1.) I been to Nepal But never tried to climb Mount Everest.
2.) haven't been to Mexico and tried to be member of a drug cartel.
3.) Haven't been to USA and tried to be a member of some biker gang.
4.) Never tried to be a part of Mumbai underworld, Boy though I was like 6-7 years old then But what fun they were having there in late 80s and early 90's, all the gang wars and police encounters.
5.) List could go to Ad Nauseam.
I wholeheartedly Thanks ZOS to make me realize my faults in real life as well, It doesn't matter these real life experiences contains nothing I need (unlike tri stat runes), But real life can be stupid and sometimes virtual world tells us the way to do, For example If we shifts all the cows to Mexico only and in order to get milk one must join a drug cartel, Only then stupid people like me will understand importance of having various experiences.
Now Getting in contact with groups in IC and cartels in Mexico shall be my Top priories or Should I wait till they transfer all cows to Mexico, Cause I am having Tea with milk like right now, Milk is not out of my reach like Tri Stat Runes.
I am too lazy to type anything on PS4, too Lazy to remove Keyboard from Computer and plug to PS4, SO I actually made announcement right here in this same thread. So Those announcements were available for everyone's perusal.
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Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OP, you just need to find a group of players to run with until you are strong enough to survive Imperial City on your own. I know for a fact that there are guilds out there that will help newbie players collect skyshards and do the quests in the Imperial City.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE2 -
Alamakot✭✭✭
Sorry, mate, but those are wrong examples. Looking at real life, you rather seem to be a tourist who entered United Kingdom in own car and immediately at entrance had two collisions. Now is writing petition to United Nations "hey, folks, I don't like to drive left side, make English Prime Minister to change rules of driving in this country".Life is too short and .....
1.) I been to Nepal But never tried to climb Mount Everest.
2.) haven't been to Mexico and tried to be member of a drug cartel.
3.) Haven't been to USA and tried to be a member of some biker gang.
4.) Never tried to be a part of Mumbai underworld, Boy though I was like 6-7 years old then But what fun they were having there in late 80s and early 90's, all the gang wars and police encounters.
5.) List could go to Ad Nauseam.
I wholeheartedly Thanks ZOS to make me realize my faults in real life as well
Many of us have some part of this game, which doesn't like and rather avoid. I personally don't like trials competition so very rarely attend. Some other may not like thievery or NPCs murdering, but I haven't seen petitions "ZOS, remove Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood from my access", like you did.
I've been killed/ganked in IC many times, lost more than 50k TV's, although went there mostly for pve purposes. I'm not complayning, just accepted fact that pvp is integral part of this area and risk is higher. And there's much more fun.
From my point of view EOT. I'll no longer feed the troll0 -
DocDova✭✭✭First of all, I live in India so I already drive on left side of the road. Secondly This example doesn't do justice with situation either, It would be more like I arrived to a city which was hosting demolition derby But Traffic for normal vehicles were open too, I was driving on right side when some monster trucks came and ran me over and now people wanna say since Demolition Derby was going on So it's your fault, But I say It was open for Normal traffic too, I followed ROAD SIGNS to reach there.
Thirdly, If anyone holds his independent views on some topics, it won't make him/her troll. I have two and half decade of gaming experience and at the same time I also have 15-16 year experience of debating/discussing things on various forum sites, So If I want I can express myself more effectively and with conviction. I must have made few hundred thousand posts across various boards.
Lastly, I am not empty words, I practice what I preach. CP 325, five months in the game and Yet I haven't sent a single invitation to anyone for duel, Completed Thieves guild story line, though I avoid stealing (except for Thieves troves/or few items for quest), Only exception was when I needed to be at certain level for next quest to appear, I took a quest from quest board on right (Which generally offers quests, I am not comfortable doing), So Picked some pockets. Left entire Dark Brotherhood quest-line. Still there are two killings on the list, First one happened when I was new in game, entered somewhere in Vvardanfell, thought it was a cave and attacked NPC in confusion, He came after me and I realized my mistake, tried to run But at same time another player entered and saw him attacking me, he came for help So Instead of running I finished the NPC as It was me who aggravated him why should someone wanting to help me take bounty on his head. I can't remember where 2nd one happened.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You walked into a PVP zone, which was marketed as a PVP zone, and clearly gated in the game behind the Alliance War zones which require you to enter Cyrodiil explicitly as a PVP zone, and the Imperial City itself is pretty darned clear its a PVP zone.
And you are shocked, shocked I tell you, that players inside acted like it was a PVP zone. I can't imagine where they got that silly idea.1 -
DocDova✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »You walked into a PVP zone, which was marketed as a PVP zone, and clearly gated in the game behind the Alliance War zones which require you to enter Cyrodiil explicitly as a PVP zone, and the Imperial City itself is pretty darned clear its a PVP zone.
And you are shocked, shocked I tell you, that players inside acted like it was a PVP zone. I can't imagine where they got that silly idea.
Everyone sees the world with his own glasses, I can't imagine attacking other players. I am not asking for something I don't deserve or practice. I Show compassion to others and expect same in return. I Show them everywhere and I deserve it everywhere. Whether it's reciprocated or not is upto developers as I can't expect everyone to have my Principles, So in my Book it falls on developers to ensure I get reciprocated in compassion I Show to others EVERYWHERE.
In my very limited knowledge of programming, I see only two options either Let Me fly under no banner or create an instance where other players can't attack me without consent. (I used me, as at-least I know I don't deserve hostility).
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