Some suggestions regarding Cyrodiil/Imperial city.

Rungar

there are so many options. you don't have to collect at 3 or 4x. You can get retreat stones. You can bring friends and if you even bring one friend you can kill most of the bosses and get way more telvar/have protection against some gankers.

you could also join shor, or under 50 or no cp and minimize the players you will encounter there.


all i see here is lazy.

Maryal

It seems like pvp'ers want the right to pvp (duel) any where they wish, any time they wish, in any pve zone (no matter how annoying it is to others), while at the same time saying NO to pve'ers who simply want to enjoy the pve content contained in IC without getting ganked. I don't know, maybe it's just me ... but does anyone else see something wrong with this picture?

Priyasekarssk

Maryal wrote: »

It seems like pvp'ers want the right to pvp (duel) any where they wish, any time they wish, in any pve zone (no matter how annoying it is to others), while at the same time saying NO to pve'ers who simply want to enjoy the pve content contained in IC without getting ganked. I don't know, maybe it's just me ... but does anyone else see something wrong with this picture?

No. Everything is around telvars and resources around imperial city. This game has major resource shortage for PVE. PVP players wants them to exploit PVE players and new players they want them that way. Gold items and resources can be got only in PVP and certain other items are easier to get. 500 TV = 5K - 7K gold.
I think ZOs decision for this could be because of bot problem in PVE area. No one know that for sure.
Lets everyone PVP. Why not ? They dont want players to come to PVP area. There is big business within business model on large scale and ZOs allowing it to happen. Either ZOs know or not I dont know. There is huge backdoor we dint know. Just reduce the telvars from killing players to 10 percent or max Telvars or both. Completely remove player penalty similar to other games. Just stop at AP points max. Encourage players come to imperial city and discourage PVP bullying . We are good to go. When everyone comes to imperial city, their business within business is rooted out. They want to avoid it at all cost. Monopolize resources and guild stores prices. Simple. It wont even require rocket science for anyone to figure it out. Just read the comments opposing the changes . You can figure by yourself.

When dying is not a problem , PVP will not become a burden. When dying becomes a problem. People will run away. PVP is useless. Imperial city sewers is completely empty most of the time except few gankers and max level players even in No CP campaign.

Its game breaking issue ZOs has to look into. Its easy to get telvars from players than bosses thats add the problem. Also its root out the competition by constantly bullying other players to get out of the PVP area. I can just farm few opponent players I get around 10k within few minutes. Probably more than that. I need not have to target bosses. Just get in middle of the fight and kill everyone and loot 10k telvars. 10K telvar is around half million gold.

Alamakot

finished read this thread in about half of second page, with silly thoughts: when someone will ask for make Battlegrounds for pve only players, as some of them would like to have them completed, but don't want to be killed by another players?

Kybotica

DocDova wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

How about decreasing telvars to 10 percent when killing a lower level player or any player ? So that experienced cancers go to kill the boss rather than killing new bies near opponent base ? When killed by NPCs let it be 75 percent.
How about new players going to court about bullying in game ?

https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/when-cyberbullying-and-bullying-meet-gaming-a-systemic-review-of-the-literature-2161-0487-1000195.php?aid=58701

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/05/how-to-fix-video-games-bullying-problem/371344/

https://www.socialmediatoday.com/content/can-you-sue-cyberbullying

https://nobullying.com/the-rise-of-bullying-in-online-games/

http://news.jrn.msu.edu/bullying/2012/02/15/video-game-griefers/

Again its ZOs problem. Not me or even you. A Game should not designed in such a way to be bullied for an in game. You are not designer or owner of the game. ZOs is responsible for it. Not you or me. Also players leaving the game.

If going to court is only way so be it. ZOs wont give anything until someone fixes the game so be it. ESO gaming community is so worse than any other game . Either they dont know about online games or just keen to exploit.
Again, I have nothing in this.

That's why I was trying to convey to them in hidden way. Bullying while gaming online is an ongoing phenomenon and it's only increasing with more and more games having online feature. I just don't wanted to say it loud, but people could sue them.

Though this bullying is yet limited to gaming only but it might adversely affect teenagers or young adults. doesn't matter if they are victims or bully themselves. Since I am speaking Truth, I shall speak whole truth. I stupidly wasted two Hakeijo rune while trying to complete an enchanting writ, So I decided to farm some in IC, When I reached there I came to know situation is that bad there.

Since Cat is out of bag now, there is no point talking in codes. ZOS There is Bullying happening in PvP areas and it won't be explainable by giving excuse of game mechanics in court of law. What you take as consent wouldn't stand in court. I am an old gamer and last thing I would want is to right winger people picking this to bully gaming companies. NRA and 2nd amendment lovers would happily try to make gaming companies scapegoat for their sins. It would be High School all over again.

Strengthen your defenses, You would face this problem for sure. I would be more than happy just with 2 Hekeijo runes being given to me, But You have a larger problem at hand. If these kind of matter goes to court, Support of Hardcore gamers (or those who like Bullying without realizing they are doing it) wouldn't matter one iota. You can count on my support But despite me being in favor of video game industry, NOW I know that there were steps you could have taken to prevent this kind of bullying But you didn't.

These kind of lawsuits could be biggest problem in front of video game industry in coming years. Preventing this kind of bullying is not just smart step, But also the right thing to do.

Florida: Fla. Stat. Ann. 1006.147(3) (2010): "(a) ‘Bullying’ means systematically and chronically inflicting physical hurt or psychological distress on one or more students and may involve: (1) Teasing; (2) Social exclusion; (3) Threat; (4) Intimidation; (5) Stalking; (6) Physical violence; (7) Theft; (8) Sexual, religious, or racial harassment; (9) Public humiliation; or (10) Destruction of property. . . . (d) The definitions of ‘bullying’ and ‘harassment’ include: (1) Retaliation against a student or school employee by another student or school employee for asserting or alleging an act of bullying or harassment...[and] (2) Perpetuation of [bullying or harassing] conduct ... by an individual or group with intent to demean, dehumanize, embarrass, or cause physical harm to a student..."

Kansas: Kan. Stat. Ann. § 72-8256.C.2 (2009): "‘Cyberbullying’ means bullying by use of any electronic communication device through means including, but not limited to, e-mail, instant messaging, text messages, blogs, mobile phones, pagers, online games and websites."

For additional examples of bullying definitions, see: Del. Code Ann. ***. 14, § 4112D.a (2010); Kan. Stat. Ann. § 72-8256 (2009); 105 Ill. Comp. Stat. Ann. 5/27-23.7(b) (2010).

For additional examples of cyberbullying definitions, see: Iowa Code § 280.28.2 (a) (2008); Md. Code Ann., Educ. § 7-424.3 (2010); 2010 Mass. Adv. Legis. Serv. Ch. No. 92-2010 (Lexis Nexis 2010); N.J. Stat. Ann. § 18A 37.14.2 (2010); Okla. Stat. Ann. ***. 70, § 24-100.3 (2009).

Enumeration of Specific Characteristics
Explains that bullying may include, but is not limited to, acts based on actual or perceived characteristics of students who have historically been targets of bullying, and provides examples of such characteristics.
Makes clear that bullying does not have to be based on any particular characteristic.
Examples Enumeration of Specific Characteristics

North Carolina: N.C. Gen. Stat. § 115C-407.15(a) (2010): "Bullying or harassing behavior includes, but is not limited to, acts reasonably perceived as being motivated by any actual or perceived differentiating characteristic, such as race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, gender, socioeconomic status, academic status, gender identity, physical appearance, sexual orientation, or mental, physical, developmental, or sensory disability, or by association with a person who has or is perceived to have one or more of these characteristics."

Washington: Wash. Rev. Code Ann. § 28A.300.285.2 (2010): "Nothing in this section requires the affected student to actually possess a characteristic that is a basis for the...bullying."

For additional examples of characteristic enumeration, see: 105 Ill. Comp. Stat. Ann. 5/27-23.7.a (2010); Iowa Code § 280.28 (2008); Or. Rev. Stat. § § 339.351.3(2009).

The above are some relevant legal statutes in the US for you regarding bullying. Attacking a player in a zone flagged for PvP does not constitute bullying from a legal standpoint. Analysis of these laws and others (do the research yourself, they're all publicly available online) reveals that, in order for actions to be considered bullying, they must be "systematic and chronic" and must be targeted at a specific individual. Basically, if a person selects a specific individual within a game and follows them around exclusively in order to disrupt their activities and for that purpose only, THEN they are guilty of bullying per statutory definition.

In the case of PvP players in a zone designated for such entertainment purposes, bullying isn't what happens. Just because you get attacked when you don't want to be after entering a zone designated for players to attack one anothers' characters doesn't mean you were bullied. I can almost guarantee that proving that the other players' attacking you was personal, systematic, and chronic, and that it caused physical hurt or psychological distress is not possible and wouldn't be accepted in a court of law. Show me a person attacking you (the same person, and attacking only you while not treating others the same) every time you enter the zone (not just during one brief and isolated incident), and continuing to do so often, and I'll accept that your specific case has some merit. I know, and you know, that that isn't what's happening here.

Your attribution of bullying to PvP flagged zones would be like accusing a fellow student of bullying if they hit you with a dodgeball during a dodgeball game as you walked across an active dodgeball court because you wanted to play with one of the balls being used for that purpose. Entering into an area designated for a specific purpose and then being upset when others assume you're there for that purpose (which, may I remind you, is DESIGNATED by the game and developers in this case) doesn't mean you're being bullied. If you want to play with the ball that's used for dodgeball during a dodgeball game, you better be willing to play some dodgeball to get what you want. Nobody is going to pause their game or adjust from how the game is designed to be played in any way just because you've decided to arbitrarily and independently change the rules to suit your own desires. And they shouldn't be expected to, either.

I get wanting to experience the content, which is fine. I'm ok with them allowing you to enter a "story mode" IC zone to experience the PvE aspects of the area. That said, you shouldn't get the rewards like Telvar or other PvP-exclusive items in that manner. If it's gained solely through PvE activity, such as hakeijo runes, then by all means include that in the story area. But to expect others to conform to your personal standards just because you say so, and to call anybody who doesn't want to do that a bully, is unreasonable.

TL;DR-

What you describe isn't bullying and doesn't fit the legal definition of bullying in any way, shape, or form. Most people are fine with allowing you to experience the PvE-related content such as PvE quests in a story-zone, but you shouldn't expect the same rewards. I'd love to experience all trials, but I don't expect ZoS to make a single-player version that gives the same rewards as the top-tier content because that would be ridiculous.

Priyasekarssk

Kybotica wrote: »

DocDova wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

How about decreasing telvars to 10 percent when killing a lower level player or any player ? So that experienced cancers go to kill the boss rather than killing new bies near opponent base ? When killed by NPCs let it be 75 percent.
How about new players going to court about bullying in game ?

https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/when-cyberbullying-and-bullying-meet-gaming-a-systemic-review-of-the-literature-2161-0487-1000195.php?aid=58701

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/05/how-to-fix-video-games-bullying-problem/371344/

https://www.socialmediatoday.com/content/can-you-sue-cyberbullying

https://nobullying.com/the-rise-of-bullying-in-online-games/

http://news.jrn.msu.edu/bullying/2012/02/15/video-game-griefers/

Again its ZOs problem. Not me or even you. A Game should not designed in such a way to be bullied for an in game. You are not designer or owner of the game. ZOs is responsible for it. Not you or me. Also players leaving the game.

If going to court is only way so be it. ZOs wont give anything until someone fixes the game so be it. ESO gaming community is so worse than any other game . Either they dont know about online games or just keen to exploit.
Again, I have nothing in this.

That's why I was trying to convey to them in hidden way. Bullying while gaming online is an ongoing phenomenon and it's only increasing with more and more games having online feature. I just don't wanted to say it loud, but people could sue them.

Though this bullying is yet limited to gaming only but it might adversely affect teenagers or young adults. doesn't matter if they are victims or bully themselves. Since I am speaking Truth, I shall speak whole truth. I stupidly wasted two Hakeijo rune while trying to complete an enchanting writ, So I decided to farm some in IC, When I reached there I came to know situation is that bad there.

Since Cat is out of bag now, there is no point talking in codes. ZOS There is Bullying happening in PvP areas and it won't be explainable by giving excuse of game mechanics in court of law. What you take as consent wouldn't stand in court. I am an old gamer and last thing I would want is to right winger people picking this to bully gaming companies. NRA and 2nd amendment lovers would happily try to make gaming companies scapegoat for their sins. It would be High School all over again.

Strengthen your defenses, You would face this problem for sure. I would be more than happy just with 2 Hekeijo runes being given to me, But You have a larger problem at hand. If these kind of matter goes to court, Support of Hardcore gamers (or those who like Bullying without realizing they are doing it) wouldn't matter one iota. You can count on my support But despite me being in favor of video game industry, NOW I know that there were steps you could have taken to prevent this kind of bullying But you didn't.

These kind of lawsuits could be biggest problem in front of video game industry in coming years. Preventing this kind of bullying is not just smart step, But also the right thing to do.

Florida: Fla. Stat. Ann. 1006.147(3) (2010): "(a) ‘Bullying’ means systematically and chronically inflicting physical hurt or psychological distress on one or more students and may involve: (1) Teasing; (2) Social exclusion; (3) Threat; (4) Intimidation; (5) Stalking; (6) Physical violence; (7) Theft; (8) Sexual, religious, or racial harassment; (9) Public humiliation; or (10) Destruction of property. . . . (d) The definitions of ‘bullying’ and ‘harassment’ include: (1) Retaliation against a student or school employee by another student or school employee for asserting or alleging an act of bullying or harassment...[and] (2) Perpetuation of [bullying or harassing] conduct ... by an individual or group with intent to demean, dehumanize, embarrass, or cause physical harm to a student..."

Kansas: Kan. Stat. Ann. § 72-8256.C.2 (2009): "‘Cyberbullying’ means bullying by use of any electronic communication device through means including, but not limited to, e-mail, instant messaging, text messages, blogs, mobile phones, pagers, online games and websites."

For additional examples of bullying definitions, see: Del. Code Ann. ***. 14, § 4112D.a (2010); Kan. Stat. Ann. § 72-8256 (2009); 105 Ill. Comp. Stat. Ann. 5/27-23.7(b) (2010).

For additional examples of cyberbullying definitions, see: Iowa Code § 280.28.2 (a) (2008); Md. Code Ann., Educ. § 7-424.3 (2010); 2010 Mass. Adv. Legis. Serv. Ch. No. 92-2010 (Lexis Nexis 2010); N.J. Stat. Ann. § 18A 37.14.2 (2010); Okla. Stat. Ann. ***. 70, § 24-100.3 (2009).

Enumeration of Specific Characteristics
Explains that bullying may include, but is not limited to, acts based on actual or perceived characteristics of students who have historically been targets of bullying, and provides examples of such characteristics.
Makes clear that bullying does not have to be based on any particular characteristic.
Examples Enumeration of Specific Characteristics

North Carolina: N.C. Gen. Stat. § 115C-407.15(a) (2010): "Bullying or harassing behavior includes, but is not limited to, acts reasonably perceived as being motivated by any actual or perceived differentiating characteristic, such as race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, gender, socioeconomic status, academic status, gender identity, physical appearance, sexual orientation, or mental, physical, developmental, or sensory disability, or by association with a person who has or is perceived to have one or more of these characteristics."

Washington: Wash. Rev. Code Ann. § 28A.300.285.2 (2010): "Nothing in this section requires the affected student to actually possess a characteristic that is a basis for the...bullying."

For additional examples of characteristic enumeration, see: 105 Ill. Comp. Stat. Ann. 5/27-23.7.a (2010); Iowa Code § 280.28 (2008); Or. Rev. Stat. § § 339.351.3(2009).

The above are some relevant legal statutes in the US for you regarding bullying. Attacking a player in a zone flagged for PvP does not constitute bullying from a legal standpoint. Analysis of these laws and others (do the research yourself, they're all publicly available online) reveals that, in order for actions to be considered bullying, they must be "systematic and chronic" and must be targeted at a specific individual. Basically, if a person selects a specific individual within a game and follows them around exclusively in order to disrupt their activities and for that purpose only, THEN they are guilty of bullying per statutory definition.

In the case of PvP players in a zone designated for such entertainment purposes, bullying isn't what happens. Just because you get attacked when you don't want to be after entering a zone designated for players to attack one anothers' characters doesn't mean you were bullied. I can almost guarantee that proving that the other players' attacking you was personal, systematic, and chronic, and that it caused physical hurt or psychological distress is not possible and wouldn't be accepted in a court of law. Show me a person attacking you (the same person, and attacking only you while not treating others the same) every time you enter the zone (not just during one brief and isolated incident), and continuing to do so often, and I'll accept that your specific case has some merit. I know, and you know, that that isn't what's happening here.

Your attribution of bullying to PvP flagged zones would be like accusing a fellow student of bullying if they hit you with a dodgeball during a dodgeball game as you walked across an active dodgeball court because you wanted to play with one of the balls being used for that purpose. Entering into an area designated for a specific purpose and then being upset when others assume you're there for that purpose (which, may I remind you, is DESIGNATED by the game and developers in this case) doesn't mean you're being bullied. If you want to play with the ball that's used for dodgeball during a dodgeball game, you better be willing to play some dodgeball to get what you want. Nobody is going to pause their game or adjust from how the game is designed to be played in any way just because you've decided to arbitrarily and independently change the rules to suit your own desires. And they shouldn't be expected to, either.

I get wanting to experience the content, which is fine. I'm ok with them allowing you to enter a "story mode" IC zone to experience the PvE aspects of the area. That said, you shouldn't get the rewards like Telvar or other PvP-exclusive items in that manner. If it's gained solely through PvE activity, such as hakeijo runes, then by all means include that in the story area. But to expect others to conform to your personal standards just because you say so, and to call anybody who doesn't want to do that a bully, is unreasonable.

TL;DR-

What you describe isn't bullying and doesn't fit the legal definition of bullying in any way, shape, or form. Most people are fine with allowing you to experience the PvE-related content such as PvE quests in a story-zone, but you shouldn't expect the same rewards. I'd love to experience all trials, but I don't expect ZoS to make a single-player version that gives the same rewards as the top-tier content because that would be ridiculous.

Kybotica wrote: »

DocDova wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

How about decreasing telvars to 10 percent when killing a lower level player or any player ? So that experienced cancers go to kill the boss rather than killing new bies near opponent base ? When killed by NPCs let it be 75 percent.
How about new players going to court about bullying in game ?

https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/when-cyberbullying-and-bullying-meet-gaming-a-systemic-review-of-the-literature-2161-0487-1000195.php?aid=58701

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/05/how-to-fix-video-games-bullying-problem/371344/

https://www.socialmediatoday.com/content/can-you-sue-cyberbullying

https://nobullying.com/the-rise-of-bullying-in-online-games/

http://news.jrn.msu.edu/bullying/2012/02/15/video-game-griefers/

Again its ZOs problem. Not me or even you. A Game should not designed in such a way to be bullied for an in game. You are not designer or owner of the game. ZOs is responsible for it. Not you or me. Also players leaving the game.

If going to court is only way so be it. ZOs wont give anything until someone fixes the game so be it. ESO gaming community is so worse than any other game . Either they dont know about online games or just keen to exploit.
Again, I have nothing in this.

That's why I was trying to convey to them in hidden way. Bullying while gaming online is an ongoing phenomenon and it's only increasing with more and more games having online feature. I just don't wanted to say it loud, but people could sue them.

Though this bullying is yet limited to gaming only but it might adversely affect teenagers or young adults. doesn't matter if they are victims or bully themselves. Since I am speaking Truth, I shall speak whole truth. I stupidly wasted two Hakeijo rune while trying to complete an enchanting writ, So I decided to farm some in IC, When I reached there I came to know situation is that bad there.

Since Cat is out of bag now, there is no point talking in codes. ZOS There is Bullying happening in PvP areas and it won't be explainable by giving excuse of game mechanics in court of law. What you take as consent wouldn't stand in court. I am an old gamer and last thing I would want is to right winger people picking this to bully gaming companies. NRA and 2nd amendment lovers would happily try to make gaming companies scapegoat for their sins. It would be High School all over again.

Strengthen your defenses, You would face this problem for sure. I would be more than happy just with 2 Hekeijo runes being given to me, But You have a larger problem at hand. If these kind of matter goes to court, Support of Hardcore gamers (or those who like Bullying without realizing they are doing it) wouldn't matter one iota. You can count on my support But despite me being in favor of video game industry, NOW I know that there were steps you could have taken to prevent this kind of bullying But you didn't.

These kind of lawsuits could be biggest problem in front of video game industry in coming years. Preventing this kind of bullying is not just smart step, But also the right thing to do.

Florida: Fla. Stat. Ann. 1006.147(3) (2010): "(a) ‘Bullying’ means systematically and chronically inflicting physical hurt or psychological distress on one or more students and may involve: (1) Teasing; (2) Social exclusion; (3) Threat; (4) Intimidation; (5) Stalking; (6) Physical violence; (7) Theft; (8) Sexual, religious, or racial harassment; (9) Public humiliation; or (10) Destruction of property. . . . (d) The definitions of ‘bullying’ and ‘harassment’ include: (1) Retaliation against a student or school employee by another student or school employee for asserting or alleging an act of bullying or harassment...[and] (2) Perpetuation of [bullying or harassing] conduct ... by an individual or group with intent to demean, dehumanize, embarrass, or cause physical harm to a student..."

Kansas: Kan. Stat. Ann. § 72-8256.C.2 (2009): "‘Cyberbullying’ means bullying by use of any electronic communication device through means including, but not limited to, e-mail, instant messaging, text messages, blogs, mobile phones, pagers, online games and websites."

For additional examples of bullying definitions, see: Del. Code Ann. ***. 14, § 4112D.a (2010); Kan. Stat. Ann. § 72-8256 (2009); 105 Ill. Comp. Stat. Ann. 5/27-23.7(b) (2010).

For additional examples of cyberbullying definitions, see: Iowa Code § 280.28.2 (a) (2008); Md. Code Ann., Educ. § 7-424.3 (2010); 2010 Mass. Adv. Legis. Serv. Ch. No. 92-2010 (Lexis Nexis 2010); N.J. Stat. Ann. § 18A 37.14.2 (2010); Okla. Stat. Ann. ***. 70, § 24-100.3 (2009).

Enumeration of Specific Characteristics
Explains that bullying may include, but is not limited to, acts based on actual or perceived characteristics of students who have historically been targets of bullying, and provides examples of such characteristics.
Makes clear that bullying does not have to be based on any particular characteristic.
Examples Enumeration of Specific Characteristics

North Carolina: N.C. Gen. Stat. § 115C-407.15(a) (2010): "Bullying or harassing behavior includes, but is not limited to, acts reasonably perceived as being motivated by any actual or perceived differentiating characteristic, such as race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, gender, socioeconomic status, academic status, gender identity, physical appearance, sexual orientation, or mental, physical, developmental, or sensory disability, or by association with a person who has or is perceived to have one or more of these characteristics."

Washington: Wash. Rev. Code Ann. § 28A.300.285.2 (2010): "Nothing in this section requires the affected student to actually possess a characteristic that is a basis for the...bullying."

For additional examples of characteristic enumeration, see: 105 Ill. Comp. Stat. Ann. 5/27-23.7.a (2010); Iowa Code § 280.28 (2008); Or. Rev. Stat. § § 339.351.3(2009).

The above are some relevant legal statutes in the US for you regarding bullying. Attacking a player in a zone flagged for PvP does not constitute bullying from a legal standpoint. Analysis of these laws and others (do the research yourself, they're all publicly available online) reveals that, in order for actions to be considered bullying, they must be "systematic and chronic" and must be targeted at a specific individual. Basically, if a person selects a specific individual within a game and follows them around exclusively in order to disrupt their activities and for that purpose only, THEN they are guilty of bullying per statutory definition.

In the case of PvP players in a zone designated for such entertainment purposes, bullying isn't what happens. Just because you get attacked when you don't want to be after entering a zone designated for players to attack one anothers' characters doesn't mean you were bullied. I can almost guarantee that proving that the other players' attacking you was personal, systematic, and chronic, and that it caused physical hurt or psychological distress is not possible and wouldn't be accepted in a court of law. Show me a person attacking you (the same person, and attacking only you while not treating others the same) every time you enter the zone (not just during one brief and isolated incident), and continuing to do so often, and I'll accept that your specific case has some merit. I know, and you know, that that isn't what's happening here.

Your attribution of bullying to PvP flagged zones would be like accusing a fellow student of bullying if they hit you with a dodgeball during a dodgeball game as you walked across an active dodgeball court because you wanted to play with one of the balls being used for that purpose. Entering into an area designated for a specific purpose and then being upset when others assume you're there for that purpose (which, may I remind you, is DESIGNATED by the game and developers in this case) doesn't mean you're being bullied. If you want to play with the ball that's used for dodgeball during a dodgeball game, you better be willing to play some dodgeball to get what you want. Nobody is going to pause their game or adjust from how the game is designed to be played in any way just because you've decided to arbitrarily and independently change the rules to suit your own desires. And they shouldn't be expected to, either.

I get wanting to experience the content, which is fine. I'm ok with them allowing you to enter a "story mode" IC zone to experience the PvE aspects of the area. That said, you shouldn't get the rewards like Telvar or other PvP-exclusive items in that manner. If it's gained solely through PvE activity, such as hakeijo runes, then by all means include that in the story area. But to expect others to conform to your personal standards just because you say so, and to call anybody who doesn't want to do that a bully, is unreasonable.

TL;DR-

What you describe isn't bullying and doesn't fit the legal definition of bullying in any way, shape, or form. Most people are fine with allowing you to experience the PvE-related content such as PvE quests in a story-zone, but you shouldn't expect the same rewards. I'd love to experience all trials, but I don't expect ZoS to make a single-player version that gives the same rewards as the top-tier content because that would be ridiculous.

All have to prove is game mechanics encourages bullying and targeting certain kind of players . PVP area is not a matter. Thats alone is legally sufficient. Everyone entering PVP area knows they will be killed by other player or bosses. Its not about the individual player who kills him or NPC who kills him. If telvars is not involved, it wont even considered an issue. You are not understanding the point. Just cut copy pasting from google does not make you legal expert.
Its developers has to decide. Its not you or me.

VaranisArano

Maryal wrote: »

It seems like pvp'ers want the right to pvp (duel) any where they wish, any time they wish, in any pve zone (no matter how annoying it is to others), while at the same time saying NO to pve'ers who simply want to enjoy the pve content contained in IC without getting ganked. I don't know, maybe it's just me ... but does anyone else see something wrong with this picture?

The fact that there is an auto-decline option on your settings for duels? You can literally say NO automatically.

Now, I'm not a fan of the "duelists" who spam people with requests at wayshrines and undaunted camps. I think thats annoying AF. But I can also turn on auto-decline and enjoy not having it be a problem.

If you go to a PVP zone like Cyrodiil or Imperial there is no auto decline because the entire zone is designed for PVP. the auto-decline in that case is not to go there in the first place. You can't accidently stumble into Cryodiil.

I don't have a problem with a PVE version of IC, as long as all the rewards (Tel Var, boss achievements, motifs, etc) are removed on this Storymode. The rewards come with the risk of PVP.

VaranisArano

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Kybotica wrote: »

DocDova wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

How about decreasing telvars to 10 percent when killing a lower level player or any player ? So that experienced cancers go to kill the boss rather than killing new bies near opponent base ? When killed by NPCs let it be 75 percent.
How about new players going to court about bullying in game ?

https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/when-cyberbullying-and-bullying-meet-gaming-a-systemic-review-of-the-literature-2161-0487-1000195.php?aid=58701

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/05/how-to-fix-video-games-bullying-problem/371344/

https://www.socialmediatoday.com/content/can-you-sue-cyberbullying

https://nobullying.com/the-rise-of-bullying-in-online-games/

http://news.jrn.msu.edu/bullying/2012/02/15/video-game-griefers/

Again its ZOs problem. Not me or even you. A Game should not designed in such a way to be bullied for an in game. You are not designer or owner of the game. ZOs is responsible for it. Not you or me. Also players leaving the game.

If going to court is only way so be it. ZOs wont give anything until someone fixes the game so be it. ESO gaming community is so worse than any other game . Either they dont know about online games or just keen to exploit.
Again, I have nothing in this.

That's why I was trying to convey to them in hidden way. Bullying while gaming online is an ongoing phenomenon and it's only increasing with more and more games having online feature. I just don't wanted to say it loud, but people could sue them.

Though this bullying is yet limited to gaming only but it might adversely affect teenagers or young adults. doesn't matter if they are victims or bully themselves. Since I am speaking Truth, I shall speak whole truth. I stupidly wasted two Hakeijo rune while trying to complete an enchanting writ, So I decided to farm some in IC, When I reached there I came to know situation is that bad there.

Since Cat is out of bag now, there is no point talking in codes. ZOS There is Bullying happening in PvP areas and it won't be explainable by giving excuse of game mechanics in court of law. What you take as consent wouldn't stand in court. I am an old gamer and last thing I would want is to right winger people picking this to bully gaming companies. NRA and 2nd amendment lovers would happily try to make gaming companies scapegoat for their sins. It would be High School all over again.

Strengthen your defenses, You would face this problem for sure. I would be more than happy just with 2 Hekeijo runes being given to me, But You have a larger problem at hand. If these kind of matter goes to court, Support of Hardcore gamers (or those who like Bullying without realizing they are doing it) wouldn't matter one iota. You can count on my support But despite me being in favor of video game industry, NOW I know that there were steps you could have taken to prevent this kind of bullying But you didn't.

These kind of lawsuits could be biggest problem in front of video game industry in coming years. Preventing this kind of bullying is not just smart step, But also the right thing to do.

Florida: Fla. Stat. Ann. 1006.147(3) (2010): "(a) ‘Bullying’ means systematically and chronically inflicting physical hurt or psychological distress on one or more students and may involve: (1) Teasing; (2) Social exclusion; (3) Threat; (4) Intimidation; (5) Stalking; (6) Physical violence; (7) Theft; (8) Sexual, religious, or racial harassment; (9) Public humiliation; or (10) Destruction of property. . . . (d) The definitions of ‘bullying’ and ‘harassment’ include: (1) Retaliation against a student or school employee by another student or school employee for asserting or alleging an act of bullying or harassment...[and] (2) Perpetuation of [bullying or harassing] conduct ... by an individual or group with intent to demean, dehumanize, embarrass, or cause physical harm to a student..."

Kansas: Kan. Stat. Ann. § 72-8256.C.2 (2009): "‘Cyberbullying’ means bullying by use of any electronic communication device through means including, but not limited to, e-mail, instant messaging, text messages, blogs, mobile phones, pagers, online games and websites."

For additional examples of bullying definitions, see: Del. Code Ann. ***. 14, § 4112D.a (2010); Kan. Stat. Ann. § 72-8256 (2009); 105 Ill. Comp. Stat. Ann. 5/27-23.7(b) (2010).

For additional examples of cyberbullying definitions, see: Iowa Code § 280.28.2 (a) (2008); Md. Code Ann., Educ. § 7-424.3 (2010); 2010 Mass. Adv. Legis. Serv. Ch. No. 92-2010 (Lexis Nexis 2010); N.J. Stat. Ann. § 18A 37.14.2 (2010); Okla. Stat. Ann. ***. 70, § 24-100.3 (2009).

Enumeration of Specific Characteristics
Explains that bullying may include, but is not limited to, acts based on actual or perceived characteristics of students who have historically been targets of bullying, and provides examples of such characteristics.
Makes clear that bullying does not have to be based on any particular characteristic.
Examples Enumeration of Specific Characteristics

North Carolina: N.C. Gen. Stat. § 115C-407.15(a) (2010): "Bullying or harassing behavior includes, but is not limited to, acts reasonably perceived as being motivated by any actual or perceived differentiating characteristic, such as race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, gender, socioeconomic status, academic status, gender identity, physical appearance, sexual orientation, or mental, physical, developmental, or sensory disability, or by association with a person who has or is perceived to have one or more of these characteristics."

Washington: Wash. Rev. Code Ann. § 28A.300.285.2 (2010): "Nothing in this section requires the affected student to actually possess a characteristic that is a basis for the...bullying."

For additional examples of characteristic enumeration, see: 105 Ill. Comp. Stat. Ann. 5/27-23.7.a (2010); Iowa Code § 280.28 (2008); Or. Rev. Stat. § § 339.351.3(2009).

The above are some relevant legal statutes in the US for you regarding bullying. Attacking a player in a zone flagged for PvP does not constitute bullying from a legal standpoint. Analysis of these laws and others (do the research yourself, they're all publicly available online) reveals that, in order for actions to be considered bullying, they must be "systematic and chronic" and must be targeted at a specific individual. Basically, if a person selects a specific individual within a game and follows them around exclusively in order to disrupt their activities and for that purpose only, THEN they are guilty of bullying per statutory definition.

In the case of PvP players in a zone designated for such entertainment purposes, bullying isn't what happens. Just because you get attacked when you don't want to be after entering a zone designated for players to attack one anothers' characters doesn't mean you were bullied. I can almost guarantee that proving that the other players' attacking you was personal, systematic, and chronic, and that it caused physical hurt or psychological distress is not possible and wouldn't be accepted in a court of law. Show me a person attacking you (the same person, and attacking only you while not treating others the same) every time you enter the zone (not just during one brief and isolated incident), and continuing to do so often, and I'll accept that your specific case has some merit. I know, and you know, that that isn't what's happening here.

Your attribution of bullying to PvP flagged zones would be like accusing a fellow student of bullying if they hit you with a dodgeball during a dodgeball game as you walked across an active dodgeball court because you wanted to play with one of the balls being used for that purpose. Entering into an area designated for a specific purpose and then being upset when others assume you're there for that purpose (which, may I remind you, is DESIGNATED by the game and developers in this case) doesn't mean you're being bullied. If you want to play with the ball that's used for dodgeball during a dodgeball game, you better be willing to play some dodgeball to get what you want. Nobody is going to pause their game or adjust from how the game is designed to be played in any way just because you've decided to arbitrarily and independently change the rules to suit your own desires. And they shouldn't be expected to, either.

I get wanting to experience the content, which is fine. I'm ok with them allowing you to enter a "story mode" IC zone to experience the PvE aspects of the area. That said, you shouldn't get the rewards like Telvar or other PvP-exclusive items in that manner. If it's gained solely through PvE activity, such as hakeijo runes, then by all means include that in the story area. But to expect others to conform to your personal standards just because you say so, and to call anybody who doesn't want to do that a bully, is unreasonable.

TL;DR-

What you describe isn't bullying and doesn't fit the legal definition of bullying in any way, shape, or form. Most people are fine with allowing you to experience the PvE-related content such as PvE quests in a story-zone, but you shouldn't expect the same rewards. I'd love to experience all trials, but I don't expect ZoS to make a single-player version that gives the same rewards as the top-tier content because that would be ridiculous.

Kybotica wrote: »

DocDova wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

How about decreasing telvars to 10 percent when killing a lower level player or any player ? So that experienced cancers go to kill the boss rather than killing new bies near opponent base ? When killed by NPCs let it be 75 percent.
How about new players going to court about bullying in game ?

https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/when-cyberbullying-and-bullying-meet-gaming-a-systemic-review-of-the-literature-2161-0487-1000195.php?aid=58701

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/05/how-to-fix-video-games-bullying-problem/371344/

https://www.socialmediatoday.com/content/can-you-sue-cyberbullying

https://nobullying.com/the-rise-of-bullying-in-online-games/

http://news.jrn.msu.edu/bullying/2012/02/15/video-game-griefers/

Again its ZOs problem. Not me or even you. A Game should not designed in such a way to be bullied for an in game. You are not designer or owner of the game. ZOs is responsible for it. Not you or me. Also players leaving the game.

If going to court is only way so be it. ZOs wont give anything until someone fixes the game so be it. ESO gaming community is so worse than any other game . Either they dont know about online games or just keen to exploit.
Again, I have nothing in this.

That's why I was trying to convey to them in hidden way. Bullying while gaming online is an ongoing phenomenon and it's only increasing with more and more games having online feature. I just don't wanted to say it loud, but people could sue them.

Though this bullying is yet limited to gaming only but it might adversely affect teenagers or young adults. doesn't matter if they are victims or bully themselves. Since I am speaking Truth, I shall speak whole truth. I stupidly wasted two Hakeijo rune while trying to complete an enchanting writ, So I decided to farm some in IC, When I reached there I came to know situation is that bad there.

Since Cat is out of bag now, there is no point talking in codes. ZOS There is Bullying happening in PvP areas and it won't be explainable by giving excuse of game mechanics in court of law. What you take as consent wouldn't stand in court. I am an old gamer and last thing I would want is to right winger people picking this to bully gaming companies. NRA and 2nd amendment lovers would happily try to make gaming companies scapegoat for their sins. It would be High School all over again.

Strengthen your defenses, You would face this problem for sure. I would be more than happy just with 2 Hekeijo runes being given to me, But You have a larger problem at hand. If these kind of matter goes to court, Support of Hardcore gamers (or those who like Bullying without realizing they are doing it) wouldn't matter one iota. You can count on my support But despite me being in favor of video game industry, NOW I know that there were steps you could have taken to prevent this kind of bullying But you didn't.

These kind of lawsuits could be biggest problem in front of video game industry in coming years. Preventing this kind of bullying is not just smart step, But also the right thing to do.

Florida: Fla. Stat. Ann. 1006.147(3) (2010): "(a) ‘Bullying’ means systematically and chronically inflicting physical hurt or psychological distress on one or more students and may involve: (1) Teasing; (2) Social exclusion; (3) Threat; (4) Intimidation; (5) Stalking; (6) Physical violence; (7) Theft; (8) Sexual, religious, or racial harassment; (9) Public humiliation; or (10) Destruction of property. . . . (d) The definitions of ‘bullying’ and ‘harassment’ include: (1) Retaliation against a student or school employee by another student or school employee for asserting or alleging an act of bullying or harassment...[and] (2) Perpetuation of [bullying or harassing] conduct ... by an individual or group with intent to demean, dehumanize, embarrass, or cause physical harm to a student..."

Kansas: Kan. Stat. Ann. § 72-8256.C.2 (2009): "‘Cyberbullying’ means bullying by use of any electronic communication device through means including, but not limited to, e-mail, instant messaging, text messages, blogs, mobile phones, pagers, online games and websites."

For additional examples of bullying definitions, see: Del. Code Ann. ***. 14, § 4112D.a (2010); Kan. Stat. Ann. § 72-8256 (2009); 105 Ill. Comp. Stat. Ann. 5/27-23.7(b) (2010).

For additional examples of cyberbullying definitions, see: Iowa Code § 280.28.2 (a) (2008); Md. Code Ann., Educ. § 7-424.3 (2010); 2010 Mass. Adv. Legis. Serv. Ch. No. 92-2010 (Lexis Nexis 2010); N.J. Stat. Ann. § 18A 37.14.2 (2010); Okla. Stat. Ann. ***. 70, § 24-100.3 (2009).

Enumeration of Specific Characteristics
Explains that bullying may include, but is not limited to, acts based on actual or perceived characteristics of students who have historically been targets of bullying, and provides examples of such characteristics.
Makes clear that bullying does not have to be based on any particular characteristic.
Examples Enumeration of Specific Characteristics

North Carolina: N.C. Gen. Stat. § 115C-407.15(a) (2010): "Bullying or harassing behavior includes, but is not limited to, acts reasonably perceived as being motivated by any actual or perceived differentiating characteristic, such as race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, gender, socioeconomic status, academic status, gender identity, physical appearance, sexual orientation, or mental, physical, developmental, or sensory disability, or by association with a person who has or is perceived to have one or more of these characteristics."

Washington: Wash. Rev. Code Ann. § 28A.300.285.2 (2010): "Nothing in this section requires the affected student to actually possess a characteristic that is a basis for the...bullying."

For additional examples of characteristic enumeration, see: 105 Ill. Comp. Stat. Ann. 5/27-23.7.a (2010); Iowa Code § 280.28 (2008); Or. Rev. Stat. § § 339.351.3(2009).

The above are some relevant legal statutes in the US for you regarding bullying. Attacking a player in a zone flagged for PvP does not constitute bullying from a legal standpoint. Analysis of these laws and others (do the research yourself, they're all publicly available online) reveals that, in order for actions to be considered bullying, they must be "systematic and chronic" and must be targeted at a specific individual. Basically, if a person selects a specific individual within a game and follows them around exclusively in order to disrupt their activities and for that purpose only, THEN they are guilty of bullying per statutory definition.

In the case of PvP players in a zone designated for such entertainment purposes, bullying isn't what happens. Just because you get attacked when you don't want to be after entering a zone designated for players to attack one anothers' characters doesn't mean you were bullied. I can almost guarantee that proving that the other players' attacking you was personal, systematic, and chronic, and that it caused physical hurt or psychological distress is not possible and wouldn't be accepted in a court of law. Show me a person attacking you (the same person, and attacking only you while not treating others the same) every time you enter the zone (not just during one brief and isolated incident), and continuing to do so often, and I'll accept that your specific case has some merit. I know, and you know, that that isn't what's happening here.

Your attribution of bullying to PvP flagged zones would be like accusing a fellow student of bullying if they hit you with a dodgeball during a dodgeball game as you walked across an active dodgeball court because you wanted to play with one of the balls being used for that purpose. Entering into an area designated for a specific purpose and then being upset when others assume you're there for that purpose (which, may I remind you, is DESIGNATED by the game and developers in this case) doesn't mean you're being bullied. If you want to play with the ball that's used for dodgeball during a dodgeball game, you better be willing to play some dodgeball to get what you want. Nobody is going to pause their game or adjust from how the game is designed to be played in any way just because you've decided to arbitrarily and independently change the rules to suit your own desires. And they shouldn't be expected to, either.

I get wanting to experience the content, which is fine. I'm ok with them allowing you to enter a "story mode" IC zone to experience the PvE aspects of the area. That said, you shouldn't get the rewards like Telvar or other PvP-exclusive items in that manner. If it's gained solely through PvE activity, such as hakeijo runes, then by all means include that in the story area. But to expect others to conform to your personal standards just because you say so, and to call anybody who doesn't want to do that a bully, is unreasonable.

TL;DR-

What you describe isn't bullying and doesn't fit the legal definition of bullying in any way, shape, or form. Most people are fine with allowing you to experience the PvE-related content such as PvE quests in a story-zone, but you shouldn't expect the same rewards. I'd love to experience all trials, but I don't expect ZoS to make a single-player version that gives the same rewards as the top-tier content because that would be ridiculous.

All have to prove is game mechanics encourages bullying and targeting certain kind of players . PVP area is not a matter. Thats alone is legally sufficient. Everyone entering PVP area knows they will be killed by other player or bosses. Its not about the individual player who kills him or NPC who kills him. If telvars is not involved, it wont even considered an issue. You are not understanding the point. Just cut copy pasting from google does not make you legal expert.
Its developers has to decide. Its not you or me.

The developers made the content. I think they decided a long time ago.
You are, of course, welcome to report behavior you feel is harassment, bullying, and griefing. Of course, ZOS will make the final decision.

What most of us are pointing out is that when you enter a PVP zone, you consent to fighting, killing, and being killed by other players regardless of your level, experience or lack thereof. Charges of harassment, bullying or griefing are going to have to go above and beyond "I got killed in a PVP zone by a max CP dude, so unfair!"

Kybotica

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

The developers made the content. I think they decided a long time ago.
You are, of course, welcome to report behavior you feel is harassment, bullying, and griefing. Of course, ZOS will make the final decision.

What most of us are pointing out is that when you enter a PVP zone, you consent to fighting, killing, and being killed by other players regardless of your level, experience or lack thereof. Charges of harassment, bullying or griefing are going to have to go above and beyond "I got killed in a PVP zone by a max CP dude, so unfair!"

Precisely. I don't think these activites meet the qualifications for bullying, but obviously some here won't ever be convinced of that. The bottom line is that behavior directly encouraged by the developers and the game they designed in a deliberate and specific manner doesn't constitute bullying. If they thought otherwise, many players would be banned for simply attacking others "unprovoked" in a zone designed for just that sort of behavior.

Kybotica

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

All have to prove is game mechanics encourages bullying and targeting certain kind of players . PVP area is not a matter. Thats alone is legally sufficient. Everyone entering PVP area knows they will be killed by other player or bosses. Its not about the individual player who kills him or NPC who kills him. If telvars is not involved, it wont even considered an issue. You are not understanding the point. Just cut copy pasting from google does not make you legal expert.
Its developers has to decide. Its not you or me.

I never claimed to be a legal expert, although I work in the legal field and likely have more operational knowledge of such matters than you're assuming I do.

Also, when "lawsuits" were brought up as an option, and also as evidence that particular changes should be made, it opened that discussion up to others such as myself to argue the counterpoint to that initial "legal argument."

As stated above, the developers have decided, and they did so when they designed the game to be played in a specific matter within specific confines. Not to mention that the behavior you're describing doesn't constitute bullying by any legal standards I can find.

Basically, don't use bullying as the reason changes should be made because it's an invalid argument.

If you want to argue that all players should be able to see all content, fine. But don't act like anybody who plays PvP the way it is designed (attacking players from another faction in the appropriate zone) is a bully. That's ridiculous.

Algraxa

I think ALL areas should be instanced. PVP and PVE, and HARD MODE...allow the players to choose the type of content they desire.

AlnilamE

Algraxa wrote: »

I think ALL areas should be instanced. PVP and PVE, and HARD MODE...allow the players to choose the type of content they desire.

What would be the objectives of non-Cyrodiil PvP areas?

Algraxa

AlnilamE wrote: »

Algraxa wrote: »

I think ALL areas should be instanced. PVP and PVE, and HARD MODE...allow the players to choose the type of content they desire.

What would be the objectives of non-Cyrodiil PvP areas?

Nothing more than another overland and adventure area. Want the good gear, choose a more difficult mode.

Side Note: I enjoyed the game FAR more before One Tam... Easy mode when I visited low level areas, Hard mode when I wanted to go to higher level areas with my lowbie. Far more interesting game play IMO.

Priyasekarssk

VaranisArano wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Kybotica wrote: »

DocDova wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

How about decreasing telvars to 10 percent when killing a lower level player or any player ? So that experienced cancers go to kill the boss rather than killing new bies near opponent base ? When killed by NPCs let it be 75 percent.
How about new players going to court about bullying in game ?

https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/when-cyberbullying-and-bullying-meet-gaming-a-systemic-review-of-the-literature-2161-0487-1000195.php?aid=58701

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/05/how-to-fix-video-games-bullying-problem/371344/

https://www.socialmediatoday.com/content/can-you-sue-cyberbullying

https://nobullying.com/the-rise-of-bullying-in-online-games/

http://news.jrn.msu.edu/bullying/2012/02/15/video-game-griefers/

Again its ZOs problem. Not me or even you. A Game should not designed in such a way to be bullied for an in game. You are not designer or owner of the game. ZOs is responsible for it. Not you or me. Also players leaving the game.

If going to court is only way so be it. ZOs wont give anything until someone fixes the game so be it. ESO gaming community is so worse than any other game . Either they dont know about online games or just keen to exploit.
Again, I have nothing in this.

That's why I was trying to convey to them in hidden way. Bullying while gaming online is an ongoing phenomenon and it's only increasing with more and more games having online feature. I just don't wanted to say it loud, but people could sue them.

Though this bullying is yet limited to gaming only but it might adversely affect teenagers or young adults. doesn't matter if they are victims or bully themselves. Since I am speaking Truth, I shall speak whole truth. I stupidly wasted two Hakeijo rune while trying to complete an enchanting writ, So I decided to farm some in IC, When I reached there I came to know situation is that bad there.

Since Cat is out of bag now, there is no point talking in codes. ZOS There is Bullying happening in PvP areas and it won't be explainable by giving excuse of game mechanics in court of law. What you take as consent wouldn't stand in court. I am an old gamer and last thing I would want is to right winger people picking this to bully gaming companies. NRA and 2nd amendment lovers would happily try to make gaming companies scapegoat for their sins. It would be High School all over again.

Strengthen your defenses, You would face this problem for sure. I would be more than happy just with 2 Hekeijo runes being given to me, But You have a larger problem at hand. If these kind of matter goes to court, Support of Hardcore gamers (or those who like Bullying without realizing they are doing it) wouldn't matter one iota. You can count on my support But despite me being in favor of video game industry, NOW I know that there were steps you could have taken to prevent this kind of bullying But you didn't.

These kind of lawsuits could be biggest problem in front of video game industry in coming years. Preventing this kind of bullying is not just smart step, But also the right thing to do.

Florida: Fla. Stat. Ann. 1006.147(3) (2010): "(a) ‘Bullying’ means systematically and chronically inflicting physical hurt or psychological distress on one or more students and may involve: (1) Teasing; (2) Social exclusion; (3) Threat; (4) Intimidation; (5) Stalking; (6) Physical violence; (7) Theft; (8) Sexual, religious, or racial harassment; (9) Public humiliation; or (10) Destruction of property. . . . (d) The definitions of ‘bullying’ and ‘harassment’ include: (1) Retaliation against a student or school employee by another student or school employee for asserting or alleging an act of bullying or harassment...[and] (2) Perpetuation of [bullying or harassing] conduct ... by an individual or group with intent to demean, dehumanize, embarrass, or cause physical harm to a student..."

Kansas: Kan. Stat. Ann. § 72-8256.C.2 (2009): "‘Cyberbullying’ means bullying by use of any electronic communication device through means including, but not limited to, e-mail, instant messaging, text messages, blogs, mobile phones, pagers, online games and websites."

For additional examples of bullying definitions, see: Del. Code Ann. ***. 14, § 4112D.a (2010); Kan. Stat. Ann. § 72-8256 (2009); 105 Ill. Comp. Stat. Ann. 5/27-23.7(b) (2010).

For additional examples of cyberbullying definitions, see: Iowa Code § 280.28.2 (a) (2008); Md. Code Ann., Educ. § 7-424.3 (2010); 2010 Mass. Adv. Legis. Serv. Ch. No. 92-2010 (Lexis Nexis 2010); N.J. Stat. Ann. § 18A 37.14.2 (2010); Okla. Stat. Ann. ***. 70, § 24-100.3 (2009).

Enumeration of Specific Characteristics
Explains that bullying may include, but is not limited to, acts based on actual or perceived characteristics of students who have historically been targets of bullying, and provides examples of such characteristics.
Makes clear that bullying does not have to be based on any particular characteristic.
Examples Enumeration of Specific Characteristics

North Carolina: N.C. Gen. Stat. § 115C-407.15(a) (2010): "Bullying or harassing behavior includes, but is not limited to, acts reasonably perceived as being motivated by any actual or perceived differentiating characteristic, such as race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, gender, socioeconomic status, academic status, gender identity, physical appearance, sexual orientation, or mental, physical, developmental, or sensory disability, or by association with a person who has or is perceived to have one or more of these characteristics."

Washington: Wash. Rev. Code Ann. § 28A.300.285.2 (2010): "Nothing in this section requires the affected student to actually possess a characteristic that is a basis for the...bullying."

For additional examples of characteristic enumeration, see: 105 Ill. Comp. Stat. Ann. 5/27-23.7.a (2010); Iowa Code § 280.28 (2008); Or. Rev. Stat. § § 339.351.3(2009).

The above are some relevant legal statutes in the US for you regarding bullying. Attacking a player in a zone flagged for PvP does not constitute bullying from a legal standpoint. Analysis of these laws and others (do the research yourself, they're all publicly available online) reveals that, in order for actions to be considered bullying, they must be "systematic and chronic" and must be targeted at a specific individual. Basically, if a person selects a specific individual within a game and follows them around exclusively in order to disrupt their activities and for that purpose only, THEN they are guilty of bullying per statutory definition.

In the case of PvP players in a zone designated for such entertainment purposes, bullying isn't what happens. Just because you get attacked when you don't want to be after entering a zone designated for players to attack one anothers' characters doesn't mean you were bullied. I can almost guarantee that proving that the other players' attacking you was personal, systematic, and chronic, and that it caused physical hurt or psychological distress is not possible and wouldn't be accepted in a court of law. Show me a person attacking you (the same person, and attacking only you while not treating others the same) every time you enter the zone (not just during one brief and isolated incident), and continuing to do so often, and I'll accept that your specific case has some merit. I know, and you know, that that isn't what's happening here.

Your attribution of bullying to PvP flagged zones would be like accusing a fellow student of bullying if they hit you with a dodgeball during a dodgeball game as you walked across an active dodgeball court because you wanted to play with one of the balls being used for that purpose. Entering into an area designated for a specific purpose and then being upset when others assume you're there for that purpose (which, may I remind you, is DESIGNATED by the game and developers in this case) doesn't mean you're being bullied. If you want to play with the ball that's used for dodgeball during a dodgeball game, you better be willing to play some dodgeball to get what you want. Nobody is going to pause their game or adjust from how the game is designed to be played in any way just because you've decided to arbitrarily and independently change the rules to suit your own desires. And they shouldn't be expected to, either.

I get wanting to experience the content, which is fine. I'm ok with them allowing you to enter a "story mode" IC zone to experience the PvE aspects of the area. That said, you shouldn't get the rewards like Telvar or other PvP-exclusive items in that manner. If it's gained solely through PvE activity, such as hakeijo runes, then by all means include that in the story area. But to expect others to conform to your personal standards just because you say so, and to call anybody who doesn't want to do that a bully, is unreasonable.

TL;DR-

What you describe isn't bullying and doesn't fit the legal definition of bullying in any way, shape, or form. Most people are fine with allowing you to experience the PvE-related content such as PvE quests in a story-zone, but you shouldn't expect the same rewards. I'd love to experience all trials, but I don't expect ZoS to make a single-player version that gives the same rewards as the top-tier content because that would be ridiculous.

Kybotica wrote: »

DocDova wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

How about decreasing telvars to 10 percent when killing a lower level player or any player ? So that experienced cancers go to kill the boss rather than killing new bies near opponent base ? When killed by NPCs let it be 75 percent.
How about new players going to court about bullying in game ?

https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/when-cyberbullying-and-bullying-meet-gaming-a-systemic-review-of-the-literature-2161-0487-1000195.php?aid=58701

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/05/how-to-fix-video-games-bullying-problem/371344/

https://www.socialmediatoday.com/content/can-you-sue-cyberbullying

https://nobullying.com/the-rise-of-bullying-in-online-games/

http://news.jrn.msu.edu/bullying/2012/02/15/video-game-griefers/

Again its ZOs problem. Not me or even you. A Game should not designed in such a way to be bullied for an in game. You are not designer or owner of the game. ZOs is responsible for it. Not you or me. Also players leaving the game.

If going to court is only way so be it. ZOs wont give anything until someone fixes the game so be it. ESO gaming community is so worse than any other game . Either they dont know about online games or just keen to exploit.
Again, I have nothing in this.

That's why I was trying to convey to them in hidden way. Bullying while gaming online is an ongoing phenomenon and it's only increasing with more and more games having online feature. I just don't wanted to say it loud, but people could sue them.

Though this bullying is yet limited to gaming only but it might adversely affect teenagers or young adults. doesn't matter if they are victims or bully themselves. Since I am speaking Truth, I shall speak whole truth. I stupidly wasted two Hakeijo rune while trying to complete an enchanting writ, So I decided to farm some in IC, When I reached there I came to know situation is that bad there.

Since Cat is out of bag now, there is no point talking in codes. ZOS There is Bullying happening in PvP areas and it won't be explainable by giving excuse of game mechanics in court of law. What you take as consent wouldn't stand in court. I am an old gamer and last thing I would want is to right winger people picking this to bully gaming companies. NRA and 2nd amendment lovers would happily try to make gaming companies scapegoat for their sins. It would be High School all over again.

Strengthen your defenses, You would face this problem for sure. I would be more than happy just with 2 Hekeijo runes being given to me, But You have a larger problem at hand. If these kind of matter goes to court, Support of Hardcore gamers (or those who like Bullying without realizing they are doing it) wouldn't matter one iota. You can count on my support But despite me being in favor of video game industry, NOW I know that there were steps you could have taken to prevent this kind of bullying But you didn't.

These kind of lawsuits could be biggest problem in front of video game industry in coming years. Preventing this kind of bullying is not just smart step, But also the right thing to do.

Florida: Fla. Stat. Ann. 1006.147(3) (2010): "(a) ‘Bullying’ means systematically and chronically inflicting physical hurt or psychological distress on one or more students and may involve: (1) Teasing; (2) Social exclusion; (3) Threat; (4) Intimidation; (5) Stalking; (6) Physical violence; (7) Theft; (8) Sexual, religious, or racial harassment; (9) Public humiliation; or (10) Destruction of property. . . . (d) The definitions of ‘bullying’ and ‘harassment’ include: (1) Retaliation against a student or school employee by another student or school employee for asserting or alleging an act of bullying or harassment...[and] (2) Perpetuation of [bullying or harassing] conduct ... by an individual or group with intent to demean, dehumanize, embarrass, or cause physical harm to a student..."

Kansas: Kan. Stat. Ann. § 72-8256.C.2 (2009): "‘Cyberbullying’ means bullying by use of any electronic communication device through means including, but not limited to, e-mail, instant messaging, text messages, blogs, mobile phones, pagers, online games and websites."

For additional examples of bullying definitions, see: Del. Code Ann. ***. 14, § 4112D.a (2010); Kan. Stat. Ann. § 72-8256 (2009); 105 Ill. Comp. Stat. Ann. 5/27-23.7(b) (2010).

For additional examples of cyberbullying definitions, see: Iowa Code § 280.28.2 (a) (2008); Md. Code Ann., Educ. § 7-424.3 (2010); 2010 Mass. Adv. Legis. Serv. Ch. No. 92-2010 (Lexis Nexis 2010); N.J. Stat. Ann. § 18A 37.14.2 (2010); Okla. Stat. Ann. ***. 70, § 24-100.3 (2009).

Enumeration of Specific Characteristics
Explains that bullying may include, but is not limited to, acts based on actual or perceived characteristics of students who have historically been targets of bullying, and provides examples of such characteristics.
Makes clear that bullying does not have to be based on any particular characteristic.
Examples Enumeration of Specific Characteristics

North Carolina: N.C. Gen. Stat. § 115C-407.15(a) (2010): "Bullying or harassing behavior includes, but is not limited to, acts reasonably perceived as being motivated by any actual or perceived differentiating characteristic, such as race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, gender, socioeconomic status, academic status, gender identity, physical appearance, sexual orientation, or mental, physical, developmental, or sensory disability, or by association with a person who has or is perceived to have one or more of these characteristics."

Washington: Wash. Rev. Code Ann. § 28A.300.285.2 (2010): "Nothing in this section requires the affected student to actually possess a characteristic that is a basis for the...bullying."

For additional examples of characteristic enumeration, see: 105 Ill. Comp. Stat. Ann. 5/27-23.7.a (2010); Iowa Code § 280.28 (2008); Or. Rev. Stat. § § 339.351.3(2009).

The above are some relevant legal statutes in the US for you regarding bullying. Attacking a player in a zone flagged for PvP does not constitute bullying from a legal standpoint. Analysis of these laws and others (do the research yourself, they're all publicly available online) reveals that, in order for actions to be considered bullying, they must be "systematic and chronic" and must be targeted at a specific individual. Basically, if a person selects a specific individual within a game and follows them around exclusively in order to disrupt their activities and for that purpose only, THEN they are guilty of bullying per statutory definition.

In the case of PvP players in a zone designated for such entertainment purposes, bullying isn't what happens. Just because you get attacked when you don't want to be after entering a zone designated for players to attack one anothers' characters doesn't mean you were bullied. I can almost guarantee that proving that the other players' attacking you was personal, systematic, and chronic, and that it caused physical hurt or psychological distress is not possible and wouldn't be accepted in a court of law. Show me a person attacking you (the same person, and attacking only you while not treating others the same) every time you enter the zone (not just during one brief and isolated incident), and continuing to do so often, and I'll accept that your specific case has some merit. I know, and you know, that that isn't what's happening here.

Your attribution of bullying to PvP flagged zones would be like accusing a fellow student of bullying if they hit you with a dodgeball during a dodgeball game as you walked across an active dodgeball court because you wanted to play with one of the balls being used for that purpose. Entering into an area designated for a specific purpose and then being upset when others assume you're there for that purpose (which, may I remind you, is DESIGNATED by the game and developers in this case) doesn't mean you're being bullied. If you want to play with the ball that's used for dodgeball during a dodgeball game, you better be willing to play some dodgeball to get what you want. Nobody is going to pause their game or adjust from how the game is designed to be played in any way just because you've decided to arbitrarily and independently change the rules to suit your own desires. And they shouldn't be expected to, either.

I get wanting to experience the content, which is fine. I'm ok with them allowing you to enter a "story mode" IC zone to experience the PvE aspects of the area. That said, you shouldn't get the rewards like Telvar or other PvP-exclusive items in that manner. If it's gained solely through PvE activity, such as hakeijo runes, then by all means include that in the story area. But to expect others to conform to your personal standards just because you say so, and to call anybody who doesn't want to do that a bully, is unreasonable.

TL;DR-

What you describe isn't bullying and doesn't fit the legal definition of bullying in any way, shape, or form. Most people are fine with allowing you to experience the PvE-related content such as PvE quests in a story-zone, but you shouldn't expect the same rewards. I'd love to experience all trials, but I don't expect ZoS to make a single-player version that gives the same rewards as the top-tier content because that would be ridiculous.

All have to prove is game mechanics encourages bullying and targeting certain kind of players . PVP area is not a matter. Thats alone is legally sufficient. Everyone entering PVP area knows they will be killed by other player or bosses. Its not about the individual player who kills him or NPC who kills him. If telvars is not involved, it wont even considered an issue. You are not understanding the point. Just cut copy pasting from google does not make you legal expert.
Its developers has to decide. Its not you or me.

The developers made the content. I think they decided a long time ago.
You are, of course, welcome to report behavior you feel is harassment, bullying, and griefing. Of course, ZOS will make the final decision.

What most of us are pointing out is that when you enter a PVP zone, you consent to fighting, killing, and being killed by other players regardless of your level, experience or lack thereof. Charges of harassment, bullying or griefing are going to have to go above and beyond "I got killed in a PVP zone by a max CP dude, so unfair!"

You will be killed by other players. Thats the basic essence of PVP. Of course if a person is way above your level you will be killed. Killing is different , being targeted is different. Charges of harassment, bullying or grieving is not accurate for getting in PVP. Its part of PVP. Being exclusively targeted driving players away is what make the question complicated. Farming lower level players exclusively gives more telvars than killing a boss. Its literally prevents player from playing the game or even entering PVP.

Lets say, If kill a player I get half or more than 2000 telvars, equation is solved. A player will always get 2000 telvars even if he is killed multiple times by other player. I am not saying its only way. I just saying how other games are preventing this exploitation. Its will prevent targeting players as priority and exploiting the system. Going to opponents base and only farming players is not correct. At the same time , it will risk reward higher level players based on multipliers. It wont prevent new players from playing imperial city. They will get something out the DLC for the money they paid at least some quests.

"I got killed in a PVP zone by a max CP dude, so unfair!" Everyone should agree 100 percent. Everyone entering PVP will get killed or killing others. There is no merit in crying over that.

geonsocal

VaranisArano

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Kybotica wrote: »

DocDova wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

How about decreasing telvars to 10 percent when killing a lower level player or any player ? So that experienced cancers go to kill the boss rather than killing new bies near opponent base ? When killed by NPCs let it be 75 percent.
How about new players going to court about bullying in game ?

https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/when-cyberbullying-and-bullying-meet-gaming-a-systemic-review-of-the-literature-2161-0487-1000195.php?aid=58701

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/05/how-to-fix-video-games-bullying-problem/371344/

https://www.socialmediatoday.com/content/can-you-sue-cyberbullying

https://nobullying.com/the-rise-of-bullying-in-online-games/

http://news.jrn.msu.edu/bullying/2012/02/15/video-game-griefers/

Again its ZOs problem. Not me or even you. A Game should not designed in such a way to be bullied for an in game. You are not designer or owner of the game. ZOs is responsible for it. Not you or me. Also players leaving the game.

If going to court is only way so be it. ZOs wont give anything until someone fixes the game so be it. ESO gaming community is so worse than any other game . Either they dont know about online games or just keen to exploit.
Again, I have nothing in this.

That's why I was trying to convey to them in hidden way. Bullying while gaming online is an ongoing phenomenon and it's only increasing with more and more games having online feature. I just don't wanted to say it loud, but people could sue them.

Though this bullying is yet limited to gaming only but it might adversely affect teenagers or young adults. doesn't matter if they are victims or bully themselves. Since I am speaking Truth, I shall speak whole truth. I stupidly wasted two Hakeijo rune while trying to complete an enchanting writ, So I decided to farm some in IC, When I reached there I came to know situation is that bad there.

Since Cat is out of bag now, there is no point talking in codes. ZOS There is Bullying happening in PvP areas and it won't be explainable by giving excuse of game mechanics in court of law. What you take as consent wouldn't stand in court. I am an old gamer and last thing I would want is to right winger people picking this to bully gaming companies. NRA and 2nd amendment lovers would happily try to make gaming companies scapegoat for their sins. It would be High School all over again.

Strengthen your defenses, You would face this problem for sure. I would be more than happy just with 2 Hekeijo runes being given to me, But You have a larger problem at hand. If these kind of matter goes to court, Support of Hardcore gamers (or those who like Bullying without realizing they are doing it) wouldn't matter one iota. You can count on my support But despite me being in favor of video game industry, NOW I know that there were steps you could have taken to prevent this kind of bullying But you didn't.

These kind of lawsuits could be biggest problem in front of video game industry in coming years. Preventing this kind of bullying is not just smart step, But also the right thing to do.

Florida: Fla. Stat. Ann. 1006.147(3) (2010): "(a) ‘Bullying’ means systematically and chronically inflicting physical hurt or psychological distress on one or more students and may involve: (1) Teasing; (2) Social exclusion; (3) Threat; (4) Intimidation; (5) Stalking; (6) Physical violence; (7) Theft; (8) Sexual, religious, or racial harassment; (9) Public humiliation; or (10) Destruction of property. . . . (d) The definitions of ‘bullying’ and ‘harassment’ include: (1) Retaliation against a student or school employee by another student or school employee for asserting or alleging an act of bullying or harassment...[and] (2) Perpetuation of [bullying or harassing] conduct ... by an individual or group with intent to demean, dehumanize, embarrass, or cause physical harm to a student..."

Kansas: Kan. Stat. Ann. § 72-8256.C.2 (2009): "‘Cyberbullying’ means bullying by use of any electronic communication device through means including, but not limited to, e-mail, instant messaging, text messages, blogs, mobile phones, pagers, online games and websites."

For additional examples of bullying definitions, see: Del. Code Ann. ***. 14, § 4112D.a (2010); Kan. Stat. Ann. § 72-8256 (2009); 105 Ill. Comp. Stat. Ann. 5/27-23.7(b) (2010).

For additional examples of cyberbullying definitions, see: Iowa Code § 280.28.2 (a) (2008); Md. Code Ann., Educ. § 7-424.3 (2010); 2010 Mass. Adv. Legis. Serv. Ch. No. 92-2010 (Lexis Nexis 2010); N.J. Stat. Ann. § 18A 37.14.2 (2010); Okla. Stat. Ann. ***. 70, § 24-100.3 (2009).

Enumeration of Specific Characteristics
Explains that bullying may include, but is not limited to, acts based on actual or perceived characteristics of students who have historically been targets of bullying, and provides examples of such characteristics.
Makes clear that bullying does not have to be based on any particular characteristic.
Examples Enumeration of Specific Characteristics

North Carolina: N.C. Gen. Stat. § 115C-407.15(a) (2010): "Bullying or harassing behavior includes, but is not limited to, acts reasonably perceived as being motivated by any actual or perceived differentiating characteristic, such as race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, gender, socioeconomic status, academic status, gender identity, physical appearance, sexual orientation, or mental, physical, developmental, or sensory disability, or by association with a person who has or is perceived to have one or more of these characteristics."

Washington: Wash. Rev. Code Ann. § 28A.300.285.2 (2010): "Nothing in this section requires the affected student to actually possess a characteristic that is a basis for the...bullying."

For additional examples of characteristic enumeration, see: 105 Ill. Comp. Stat. Ann. 5/27-23.7.a (2010); Iowa Code § 280.28 (2008); Or. Rev. Stat. § § 339.351.3(2009).

The above are some relevant legal statutes in the US for you regarding bullying. Attacking a player in a zone flagged for PvP does not constitute bullying from a legal standpoint. Analysis of these laws and others (do the research yourself, they're all publicly available online) reveals that, in order for actions to be considered bullying, they must be "systematic and chronic" and must be targeted at a specific individual. Basically, if a person selects a specific individual within a game and follows them around exclusively in order to disrupt their activities and for that purpose only, THEN they are guilty of bullying per statutory definition.

In the case of PvP players in a zone designated for such entertainment purposes, bullying isn't what happens. Just because you get attacked when you don't want to be after entering a zone designated for players to attack one anothers' characters doesn't mean you were bullied. I can almost guarantee that proving that the other players' attacking you was personal, systematic, and chronic, and that it caused physical hurt or psychological distress is not possible and wouldn't be accepted in a court of law. Show me a person attacking you (the same person, and attacking only you while not treating others the same) every time you enter the zone (not just during one brief and isolated incident), and continuing to do so often, and I'll accept that your specific case has some merit. I know, and you know, that that isn't what's happening here.

Your attribution of bullying to PvP flagged zones would be like accusing a fellow student of bullying if they hit you with a dodgeball during a dodgeball game as you walked across an active dodgeball court because you wanted to play with one of the balls being used for that purpose. Entering into an area designated for a specific purpose and then being upset when others assume you're there for that purpose (which, may I remind you, is DESIGNATED by the game and developers in this case) doesn't mean you're being bullied. If you want to play with the ball that's used for dodgeball during a dodgeball game, you better be willing to play some dodgeball to get what you want. Nobody is going to pause their game or adjust from how the game is designed to be played in any way just because you've decided to arbitrarily and independently change the rules to suit your own desires. And they shouldn't be expected to, either.

I get wanting to experience the content, which is fine. I'm ok with them allowing you to enter a "story mode" IC zone to experience the PvE aspects of the area. That said, you shouldn't get the rewards like Telvar or other PvP-exclusive items in that manner. If it's gained solely through PvE activity, such as hakeijo runes, then by all means include that in the story area. But to expect others to conform to your personal standards just because you say so, and to call anybody who doesn't want to do that a bully, is unreasonable.

TL;DR-

What you describe isn't bullying and doesn't fit the legal definition of bullying in any way, shape, or form. Most people are fine with allowing you to experience the PvE-related content such as PvE quests in a story-zone, but you shouldn't expect the same rewards. I'd love to experience all trials, but I don't expect ZoS to make a single-player version that gives the same rewards as the top-tier content because that would be ridiculous.

Kybotica wrote: »

DocDova wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

How about decreasing telvars to 10 percent when killing a lower level player or any player ? So that experienced cancers go to kill the boss rather than killing new bies near opponent base ? When killed by NPCs let it be 75 percent.
How about new players going to court about bullying in game ?

https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/when-cyberbullying-and-bullying-meet-gaming-a-systemic-review-of-the-literature-2161-0487-1000195.php?aid=58701

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/05/how-to-fix-video-games-bullying-problem/371344/

https://www.socialmediatoday.com/content/can-you-sue-cyberbullying

https://nobullying.com/the-rise-of-bullying-in-online-games/

http://news.jrn.msu.edu/bullying/2012/02/15/video-game-griefers/

Again its ZOs problem. Not me or even you. A Game should not designed in such a way to be bullied for an in game. You are not designer or owner of the game. ZOs is responsible for it. Not you or me. Also players leaving the game.

If going to court is only way so be it. ZOs wont give anything until someone fixes the game so be it. ESO gaming community is so worse than any other game . Either they dont know about online games or just keen to exploit.
Again, I have nothing in this.

That's why I was trying to convey to them in hidden way. Bullying while gaming online is an ongoing phenomenon and it's only increasing with more and more games having online feature. I just don't wanted to say it loud, but people could sue them.

Though this bullying is yet limited to gaming only but it might adversely affect teenagers or young adults. doesn't matter if they are victims or bully themselves. Since I am speaking Truth, I shall speak whole truth. I stupidly wasted two Hakeijo rune while trying to complete an enchanting writ, So I decided to farm some in IC, When I reached there I came to know situation is that bad there.

Since Cat is out of bag now, there is no point talking in codes. ZOS There is Bullying happening in PvP areas and it won't be explainable by giving excuse of game mechanics in court of law. What you take as consent wouldn't stand in court. I am an old gamer and last thing I would want is to right winger people picking this to bully gaming companies. NRA and 2nd amendment lovers would happily try to make gaming companies scapegoat for their sins. It would be High School all over again.

Strengthen your defenses, You would face this problem for sure. I would be more than happy just with 2 Hekeijo runes being given to me, But You have a larger problem at hand. If these kind of matter goes to court, Support of Hardcore gamers (or those who like Bullying without realizing they are doing it) wouldn't matter one iota. You can count on my support But despite me being in favor of video game industry, NOW I know that there were steps you could have taken to prevent this kind of bullying But you didn't.

These kind of lawsuits could be biggest problem in front of video game industry in coming years. Preventing this kind of bullying is not just smart step, But also the right thing to do.

Florida: Fla. Stat. Ann. 1006.147(3) (2010): "(a) ‘Bullying’ means systematically and chronically inflicting physical hurt or psychological distress on one or more students and may involve: (1) Teasing; (2) Social exclusion; (3) Threat; (4) Intimidation; (5) Stalking; (6) Physical violence; (7) Theft; (8) Sexual, religious, or racial harassment; (9) Public humiliation; or (10) Destruction of property. . . . (d) The definitions of ‘bullying’ and ‘harassment’ include: (1) Retaliation against a student or school employee by another student or school employee for asserting or alleging an act of bullying or harassment...[and] (2) Perpetuation of [bullying or harassing] conduct ... by an individual or group with intent to demean, dehumanize, embarrass, or cause physical harm to a student..."

Kansas: Kan. Stat. Ann. § 72-8256.C.2 (2009): "‘Cyberbullying’ means bullying by use of any electronic communication device through means including, but not limited to, e-mail, instant messaging, text messages, blogs, mobile phones, pagers, online games and websites."

For additional examples of bullying definitions, see: Del. Code Ann. ***. 14, § 4112D.a (2010); Kan. Stat. Ann. § 72-8256 (2009); 105 Ill. Comp. Stat. Ann. 5/27-23.7(b) (2010).

For additional examples of cyberbullying definitions, see: Iowa Code § 280.28.2 (a) (2008); Md. Code Ann., Educ. § 7-424.3 (2010); 2010 Mass. Adv. Legis. Serv. Ch. No. 92-2010 (Lexis Nexis 2010); N.J. Stat. Ann. § 18A 37.14.2 (2010); Okla. Stat. Ann. ***. 70, § 24-100.3 (2009).

Enumeration of Specific Characteristics
Explains that bullying may include, but is not limited to, acts based on actual or perceived characteristics of students who have historically been targets of bullying, and provides examples of such characteristics.
Makes clear that bullying does not have to be based on any particular characteristic.
Examples Enumeration of Specific Characteristics

North Carolina: N.C. Gen. Stat. § 115C-407.15(a) (2010): "Bullying or harassing behavior includes, but is not limited to, acts reasonably perceived as being motivated by any actual or perceived differentiating characteristic, such as race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, gender, socioeconomic status, academic status, gender identity, physical appearance, sexual orientation, or mental, physical, developmental, or sensory disability, or by association with a person who has or is perceived to have one or more of these characteristics."

Washington: Wash. Rev. Code Ann. § 28A.300.285.2 (2010): "Nothing in this section requires the affected student to actually possess a characteristic that is a basis for the...bullying."

For additional examples of characteristic enumeration, see: 105 Ill. Comp. Stat. Ann. 5/27-23.7.a (2010); Iowa Code § 280.28 (2008); Or. Rev. Stat. § § 339.351.3(2009).

The above are some relevant legal statutes in the US for you regarding bullying. Attacking a player in a zone flagged for PvP does not constitute bullying from a legal standpoint. Analysis of these laws and others (do the research yourself, they're all publicly available online) reveals that, in order for actions to be considered bullying, they must be "systematic and chronic" and must be targeted at a specific individual. Basically, if a person selects a specific individual within a game and follows them around exclusively in order to disrupt their activities and for that purpose only, THEN they are guilty of bullying per statutory definition.

In the case of PvP players in a zone designated for such entertainment purposes, bullying isn't what happens. Just because you get attacked when you don't want to be after entering a zone designated for players to attack one anothers' characters doesn't mean you were bullied. I can almost guarantee that proving that the other players' attacking you was personal, systematic, and chronic, and that it caused physical hurt or psychological distress is not possible and wouldn't be accepted in a court of law. Show me a person attacking you (the same person, and attacking only you while not treating others the same) every time you enter the zone (not just during one brief and isolated incident), and continuing to do so often, and I'll accept that your specific case has some merit. I know, and you know, that that isn't what's happening here.

Your attribution of bullying to PvP flagged zones would be like accusing a fellow student of bullying if they hit you with a dodgeball during a dodgeball game as you walked across an active dodgeball court because you wanted to play with one of the balls being used for that purpose. Entering into an area designated for a specific purpose and then being upset when others assume you're there for that purpose (which, may I remind you, is DESIGNATED by the game and developers in this case) doesn't mean you're being bullied. If you want to play with the ball that's used for dodgeball during a dodgeball game, you better be willing to play some dodgeball to get what you want. Nobody is going to pause their game or adjust from how the game is designed to be played in any way just because you've decided to arbitrarily and independently change the rules to suit your own desires. And they shouldn't be expected to, either.

I get wanting to experience the content, which is fine. I'm ok with them allowing you to enter a "story mode" IC zone to experience the PvE aspects of the area. That said, you shouldn't get the rewards like Telvar or other PvP-exclusive items in that manner. If it's gained solely through PvE activity, such as hakeijo runes, then by all means include that in the story area. But to expect others to conform to your personal standards just because you say so, and to call anybody who doesn't want to do that a bully, is unreasonable.

TL;DR-

What you describe isn't bullying and doesn't fit the legal definition of bullying in any way, shape, or form. Most people are fine with allowing you to experience the PvE-related content such as PvE quests in a story-zone, but you shouldn't expect the same rewards. I'd love to experience all trials, but I don't expect ZoS to make a single-player version that gives the same rewards as the top-tier content because that would be ridiculous.

All have to prove is game mechanics encourages bullying and targeting certain kind of players . PVP area is not a matter. Thats alone is legally sufficient. Everyone entering PVP area knows they will be killed by other player or bosses. Its not about the individual player who kills him or NPC who kills him. If telvars is not involved, it wont even considered an issue. You are not understanding the point. Just cut copy pasting from google does not make you legal expert.
Its developers has to decide. Its not you or me.

The developers made the content. I think they decided a long time ago.
You are, of course, welcome to report behavior you feel is harassment, bullying, and griefing. Of course, ZOS will make the final decision.

What most of us are pointing out is that when you enter a PVP zone, you consent to fighting, killing, and being killed by other players regardless of your level, experience or lack thereof. Charges of harassment, bullying or griefing are going to have to go above and beyond "I got killed in a PVP zone by a max CP dude, so unfair!"

You will be killed by other players. Thats the basic essence of PVP. Of course if a person is way above your level you will be killed. Killing is different , being targeted is different. Charges of harassment, bullying or grieving is not accurate for getting in PVP. Its part of PVP. Being exclusively targeted driving players away is what make the question complicated. Farming lower level players exclusively gives more telvars than killing a boss. Its literally prevents player from playing the game or even entering PVP.

Lets say, If kill a player I get half or more than 2000 telvars, equation is solved. A player will always get 2000 telvars even if he is killed multiple times by other player. I am not saying its only way. I just saying how other games are preventing this exploitation. Its will prevent targeting players as priority and exploiting the system. Going to opponents base and only farming players is not correct. At the same time , it will risk reward higher level players based on multipliers. It wont prevent new players from playing imperial city. They will get something out the DLC for the money they paid at least some quests.

"I got killed in a PVP zone by a max CP dude, so unfair!" Everyone should agree 100 percent. Everyone entering PVP will get killed or killing others. There is no merit in crying over that.

There are experienced players in the Below Level 50 campaign who just constantly reroll new characters once they hit level 50. Some people just prefer that campaign, some people like the challenge, and some people like to farm noobs. Its a pretty mixed bag.

So low level isnt exactly an indication of inexperience. Furthermore, if you give too much of a benefit to low levels, you will have people who take advantage of it by deliberately playing low level characters despite being experienced.

Also, in my experience, 2000 TV for killing a player is a lot, Unless that player was farming bosses (in which case I expect them to know how to put up a fight).

If you want to really disincetivize targeting low level players by max level players, I'd make the lowbie lose the flat rate of 50%, but the killing player get a percentage based on the level differential. That wouldnt solve the problem of people deliberately playing low level players in hopes of grinding in peace, but it would mean that those people don't get to keep anymore TV than normal. It would also reward max CP players for "picking on players their own size" as it were.

But I would like to note that originally players in the Imperial City lost 80% of their Tel Var to the player that killed them, so ZOS has already made it less brutal. 50% is a lot better than 80%.

Priyasekarssk

VaranisArano wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Kybotica wrote: »

DocDova wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

How about decreasing telvars to 10 percent when killing a lower level player or any player ? So that experienced cancers go to kill the boss rather than killing new bies near opponent base ? When killed by NPCs let it be 75 percent.
How about new players going to court about bullying in game ?

https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/when-cyberbullying-and-bullying-meet-gaming-a-systemic-review-of-the-literature-2161-0487-1000195.php?aid=58701

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/05/how-to-fix-video-games-bullying-problem/371344/

https://www.socialmediatoday.com/content/can-you-sue-cyberbullying

https://nobullying.com/the-rise-of-bullying-in-online-games/

http://news.jrn.msu.edu/bullying/2012/02/15/video-game-griefers/

Again its ZOs problem. Not me or even you. A Game should not designed in such a way to be bullied for an in game. You are not designer or owner of the game. ZOs is responsible for it. Not you or me. Also players leaving the game.

If going to court is only way so be it. ZOs wont give anything until someone fixes the game so be it. ESO gaming community is so worse than any other game . Either they dont know about online games or just keen to exploit.
Again, I have nothing in this.

That's why I was trying to convey to them in hidden way. Bullying while gaming online is an ongoing phenomenon and it's only increasing with more and more games having online feature. I just don't wanted to say it loud, but people could sue them.

Though this bullying is yet limited to gaming only but it might adversely affect teenagers or young adults. doesn't matter if they are victims or bully themselves. Since I am speaking Truth, I shall speak whole truth. I stupidly wasted two Hakeijo rune while trying to complete an enchanting writ, So I decided to farm some in IC, When I reached there I came to know situation is that bad there.

Since Cat is out of bag now, there is no point talking in codes. ZOS There is Bullying happening in PvP areas and it won't be explainable by giving excuse of game mechanics in court of law. What you take as consent wouldn't stand in court. I am an old gamer and last thing I would want is to right winger people picking this to bully gaming companies. NRA and 2nd amendment lovers would happily try to make gaming companies scapegoat for their sins. It would be High School all over again.

Strengthen your defenses, You would face this problem for sure. I would be more than happy just with 2 Hekeijo runes being given to me, But You have a larger problem at hand. If these kind of matter goes to court, Support of Hardcore gamers (or those who like Bullying without realizing they are doing it) wouldn't matter one iota. You can count on my support But despite me being in favor of video game industry, NOW I know that there were steps you could have taken to prevent this kind of bullying But you didn't.

These kind of lawsuits could be biggest problem in front of video game industry in coming years. Preventing this kind of bullying is not just smart step, But also the right thing to do.

Florida: Fla. Stat. Ann. 1006.147(3) (2010): "(a) ‘Bullying’ means systematically and chronically inflicting physical hurt or psychological distress on one or more students and may involve: (1) Teasing; (2) Social exclusion; (3) Threat; (4) Intimidation; (5) Stalking; (6) Physical violence; (7) Theft; (8) Sexual, religious, or racial harassment; (9) Public humiliation; or (10) Destruction of property. . . . (d) The definitions of ‘bullying’ and ‘harassment’ include: (1) Retaliation against a student or school employee by another student or school employee for asserting or alleging an act of bullying or harassment...[and] (2) Perpetuation of [bullying or harassing] conduct ... by an individual or group with intent to demean, dehumanize, embarrass, or cause physical harm to a student..."

Kansas: Kan. Stat. Ann. § 72-8256.C.2 (2009): "‘Cyberbullying’ means bullying by use of any electronic communication device through means including, but not limited to, e-mail, instant messaging, text messages, blogs, mobile phones, pagers, online games and websites."

For additional examples of bullying definitions, see: Del. Code Ann. ***. 14, § 4112D.a (2010); Kan. Stat. Ann. § 72-8256 (2009); 105 Ill. Comp. Stat. Ann. 5/27-23.7(b) (2010).

For additional examples of cyberbullying definitions, see: Iowa Code § 280.28.2 (a) (2008); Md. Code Ann., Educ. § 7-424.3 (2010); 2010 Mass. Adv. Legis. Serv. Ch. No. 92-2010 (Lexis Nexis 2010); N.J. Stat. Ann. § 18A 37.14.2 (2010); Okla. Stat. Ann. ***. 70, § 24-100.3 (2009).

Enumeration of Specific Characteristics
Explains that bullying may include, but is not limited to, acts based on actual or perceived characteristics of students who have historically been targets of bullying, and provides examples of such characteristics.
Makes clear that bullying does not have to be based on any particular characteristic.
Examples Enumeration of Specific Characteristics

North Carolina: N.C. Gen. Stat. § 115C-407.15(a) (2010): "Bullying or harassing behavior includes, but is not limited to, acts reasonably perceived as being motivated by any actual or perceived differentiating characteristic, such as race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, gender, socioeconomic status, academic status, gender identity, physical appearance, sexual orientation, or mental, physical, developmental, or sensory disability, or by association with a person who has or is perceived to have one or more of these characteristics."

Washington: Wash. Rev. Code Ann. § 28A.300.285.2 (2010): "Nothing in this section requires the affected student to actually possess a characteristic that is a basis for the...bullying."

For additional examples of characteristic enumeration, see: 105 Ill. Comp. Stat. Ann. 5/27-23.7.a (2010); Iowa Code § 280.28 (2008); Or. Rev. Stat. § § 339.351.3(2009).

The above are some relevant legal statutes in the US for you regarding bullying. Attacking a player in a zone flagged for PvP does not constitute bullying from a legal standpoint. Analysis of these laws and others (do the research yourself, they're all publicly available online) reveals that, in order for actions to be considered bullying, they must be "systematic and chronic" and must be targeted at a specific individual. Basically, if a person selects a specific individual within a game and follows them around exclusively in order to disrupt their activities and for that purpose only, THEN they are guilty of bullying per statutory definition.

In the case of PvP players in a zone designated for such entertainment purposes, bullying isn't what happens. Just because you get attacked when you don't want to be after entering a zone designated for players to attack one anothers' characters doesn't mean you were bullied. I can almost guarantee that proving that the other players' attacking you was personal, systematic, and chronic, and that it caused physical hurt or psychological distress is not possible and wouldn't be accepted in a court of law. Show me a person attacking you (the same person, and attacking only you while not treating others the same) every time you enter the zone (not just during one brief and isolated incident), and continuing to do so often, and I'll accept that your specific case has some merit. I know, and you know, that that isn't what's happening here.

Your attribution of bullying to PvP flagged zones would be like accusing a fellow student of bullying if they hit you with a dodgeball during a dodgeball game as you walked across an active dodgeball court because you wanted to play with one of the balls being used for that purpose. Entering into an area designated for a specific purpose and then being upset when others assume you're there for that purpose (which, may I remind you, is DESIGNATED by the game and developers in this case) doesn't mean you're being bullied. If you want to play with the ball that's used for dodgeball during a dodgeball game, you better be willing to play some dodgeball to get what you want. Nobody is going to pause their game or adjust from how the game is designed to be played in any way just because you've decided to arbitrarily and independently change the rules to suit your own desires. And they shouldn't be expected to, either.

I get wanting to experience the content, which is fine. I'm ok with them allowing you to enter a "story mode" IC zone to experience the PvE aspects of the area. That said, you shouldn't get the rewards like Telvar or other PvP-exclusive items in that manner. If it's gained solely through PvE activity, such as hakeijo runes, then by all means include that in the story area. But to expect others to conform to your personal standards just because you say so, and to call anybody who doesn't want to do that a bully, is unreasonable.

TL;DR-

What you describe isn't bullying and doesn't fit the legal definition of bullying in any way, shape, or form. Most people are fine with allowing you to experience the PvE-related content such as PvE quests in a story-zone, but you shouldn't expect the same rewards. I'd love to experience all trials, but I don't expect ZoS to make a single-player version that gives the same rewards as the top-tier content because that would be ridiculous.

Kybotica wrote: »

DocDova wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

How about decreasing telvars to 10 percent when killing a lower level player or any player ? So that experienced cancers go to kill the boss rather than killing new bies near opponent base ? When killed by NPCs let it be 75 percent.
How about new players going to court about bullying in game ?

https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/when-cyberbullying-and-bullying-meet-gaming-a-systemic-review-of-the-literature-2161-0487-1000195.php?aid=58701

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/05/how-to-fix-video-games-bullying-problem/371344/

https://www.socialmediatoday.com/content/can-you-sue-cyberbullying

https://nobullying.com/the-rise-of-bullying-in-online-games/

http://news.jrn.msu.edu/bullying/2012/02/15/video-game-griefers/

Again its ZOs problem. Not me or even you. A Game should not designed in such a way to be bullied for an in game. You are not designer or owner of the game. ZOs is responsible for it. Not you or me. Also players leaving the game.

If going to court is only way so be it. ZOs wont give anything until someone fixes the game so be it. ESO gaming community is so worse than any other game . Either they dont know about online games or just keen to exploit.
Again, I have nothing in this.

That's why I was trying to convey to them in hidden way. Bullying while gaming online is an ongoing phenomenon and it's only increasing with more and more games having online feature. I just don't wanted to say it loud, but people could sue them.

Though this bullying is yet limited to gaming only but it might adversely affect teenagers or young adults. doesn't matter if they are victims or bully themselves. Since I am speaking Truth, I shall speak whole truth. I stupidly wasted two Hakeijo rune while trying to complete an enchanting writ, So I decided to farm some in IC, When I reached there I came to know situation is that bad there.

Since Cat is out of bag now, there is no point talking in codes. ZOS There is Bullying happening in PvP areas and it won't be explainable by giving excuse of game mechanics in court of law. What you take as consent wouldn't stand in court. I am an old gamer and last thing I would want is to right winger people picking this to bully gaming companies. NRA and 2nd amendment lovers would happily try to make gaming companies scapegoat for their sins. It would be High School all over again.

Strengthen your defenses, You would face this problem for sure. I would be more than happy just with 2 Hekeijo runes being given to me, But You have a larger problem at hand. If these kind of matter goes to court, Support of Hardcore gamers (or those who like Bullying without realizing they are doing it) wouldn't matter one iota. You can count on my support But despite me being in favor of video game industry, NOW I know that there were steps you could have taken to prevent this kind of bullying But you didn't.

These kind of lawsuits could be biggest problem in front of video game industry in coming years. Preventing this kind of bullying is not just smart step, But also the right thing to do.

Florida: Fla. Stat. Ann. 1006.147(3) (2010): "(a) ‘Bullying’ means systematically and chronically inflicting physical hurt or psychological distress on one or more students and may involve: (1) Teasing; (2) Social exclusion; (3) Threat; (4) Intimidation; (5) Stalking; (6) Physical violence; (7) Theft; (8) Sexual, religious, or racial harassment; (9) Public humiliation; or (10) Destruction of property. . . . (d) The definitions of ‘bullying’ and ‘harassment’ include: (1) Retaliation against a student or school employee by another student or school employee for asserting or alleging an act of bullying or harassment...[and] (2) Perpetuation of [bullying or harassing] conduct ... by an individual or group with intent to demean, dehumanize, embarrass, or cause physical harm to a student..."

Kansas: Kan. Stat. Ann. § 72-8256.C.2 (2009): "‘Cyberbullying’ means bullying by use of any electronic communication device through means including, but not limited to, e-mail, instant messaging, text messages, blogs, mobile phones, pagers, online games and websites."

For additional examples of bullying definitions, see: Del. Code Ann. ***. 14, § 4112D.a (2010); Kan. Stat. Ann. § 72-8256 (2009); 105 Ill. Comp. Stat. Ann. 5/27-23.7(b) (2010).

For additional examples of cyberbullying definitions, see: Iowa Code § 280.28.2 (a) (2008); Md. Code Ann., Educ. § 7-424.3 (2010); 2010 Mass. Adv. Legis. Serv. Ch. No. 92-2010 (Lexis Nexis 2010); N.J. Stat. Ann. § 18A 37.14.2 (2010); Okla. Stat. Ann. ***. 70, § 24-100.3 (2009).

Enumeration of Specific Characteristics
Explains that bullying may include, but is not limited to, acts based on actual or perceived characteristics of students who have historically been targets of bullying, and provides examples of such characteristics.
Makes clear that bullying does not have to be based on any particular characteristic.
Examples Enumeration of Specific Characteristics

North Carolina: N.C. Gen. Stat. § 115C-407.15(a) (2010): "Bullying or harassing behavior includes, but is not limited to, acts reasonably perceived as being motivated by any actual or perceived differentiating characteristic, such as race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, gender, socioeconomic status, academic status, gender identity, physical appearance, sexual orientation, or mental, physical, developmental, or sensory disability, or by association with a person who has or is perceived to have one or more of these characteristics."

Washington: Wash. Rev. Code Ann. § 28A.300.285.2 (2010): "Nothing in this section requires the affected student to actually possess a characteristic that is a basis for the...bullying."

For additional examples of characteristic enumeration, see: 105 Ill. Comp. Stat. Ann. 5/27-23.7.a (2010); Iowa Code § 280.28 (2008); Or. Rev. Stat. § § 339.351.3(2009).

The above are some relevant legal statutes in the US for you regarding bullying. Attacking a player in a zone flagged for PvP does not constitute bullying from a legal standpoint. Analysis of these laws and others (do the research yourself, they're all publicly available online) reveals that, in order for actions to be considered bullying, they must be "systematic and chronic" and must be targeted at a specific individual. Basically, if a person selects a specific individual within a game and follows them around exclusively in order to disrupt their activities and for that purpose only, THEN they are guilty of bullying per statutory definition.

In the case of PvP players in a zone designated for such entertainment purposes, bullying isn't what happens. Just because you get attacked when you don't want to be after entering a zone designated for players to attack one anothers' characters doesn't mean you were bullied. I can almost guarantee that proving that the other players' attacking you was personal, systematic, and chronic, and that it caused physical hurt or psychological distress is not possible and wouldn't be accepted in a court of law. Show me a person attacking you (the same person, and attacking only you while not treating others the same) every time you enter the zone (not just during one brief and isolated incident), and continuing to do so often, and I'll accept that your specific case has some merit. I know, and you know, that that isn't what's happening here.

Your attribution of bullying to PvP flagged zones would be like accusing a fellow student of bullying if they hit you with a dodgeball during a dodgeball game as you walked across an active dodgeball court because you wanted to play with one of the balls being used for that purpose. Entering into an area designated for a specific purpose and then being upset when others assume you're there for that purpose (which, may I remind you, is DESIGNATED by the game and developers in this case) doesn't mean you're being bullied. If you want to play with the ball that's used for dodgeball during a dodgeball game, you better be willing to play some dodgeball to get what you want. Nobody is going to pause their game or adjust from how the game is designed to be played in any way just because you've decided to arbitrarily and independently change the rules to suit your own desires. And they shouldn't be expected to, either.

I get wanting to experience the content, which is fine. I'm ok with them allowing you to enter a "story mode" IC zone to experience the PvE aspects of the area. That said, you shouldn't get the rewards like Telvar or other PvP-exclusive items in that manner. If it's gained solely through PvE activity, such as hakeijo runes, then by all means include that in the story area. But to expect others to conform to your personal standards just because you say so, and to call anybody who doesn't want to do that a bully, is unreasonable.

TL;DR-

What you describe isn't bullying and doesn't fit the legal definition of bullying in any way, shape, or form. Most people are fine with allowing you to experience the PvE-related content such as PvE quests in a story-zone, but you shouldn't expect the same rewards. I'd love to experience all trials, but I don't expect ZoS to make a single-player version that gives the same rewards as the top-tier content because that would be ridiculous.

All have to prove is game mechanics encourages bullying and targeting certain kind of players . PVP area is not a matter. Thats alone is legally sufficient. Everyone entering PVP area knows they will be killed by other player or bosses. Its not about the individual player who kills him or NPC who kills him. If telvars is not involved, it wont even considered an issue. You are not understanding the point. Just cut copy pasting from google does not make you legal expert.
Its developers has to decide. Its not you or me.

The developers made the content. I think they decided a long time ago.
You are, of course, welcome to report behavior you feel is harassment, bullying, and griefing. Of course, ZOS will make the final decision.

What most of us are pointing out is that when you enter a PVP zone, you consent to fighting, killing, and being killed by other players regardless of your level, experience or lack thereof. Charges of harassment, bullying or griefing are going to have to go above and beyond "I got killed in a PVP zone by a max CP dude, so unfair!"

You will be killed by other players. Thats the basic essence of PVP. Of course if a person is way above your level you will be killed. Killing is different , being targeted is different. Charges of harassment, bullying or grieving is not accurate for getting in PVP. Its part of PVP. Being exclusively targeted driving players away is what make the question complicated. Farming lower level players exclusively gives more telvars than killing a boss. Its literally prevents player from playing the game or even entering PVP.

Lets say, If kill a player I get half or more than 2000 telvars, equation is solved. A player will always get 2000 telvars even if he is killed multiple times by other player. I am not saying its only way. I just saying how other games are preventing this exploitation. Its will prevent targeting players as priority and exploiting the system. Going to opponents base and only farming players is not correct. At the same time , it will risk reward higher level players based on multipliers. It wont prevent new players from playing imperial city. They will get something out the DLC for the money they paid at least some quests.

"I got killed in a PVP zone by a max CP dude, so unfair!" Everyone should agree 100 percent. Everyone entering PVP will get killed or killing others. There is no merit in crying over that.

There are experienced players in the Below Level 50 campaign who just constantly reroll new characters once they hit level 50. Some people just prefer that campaign, some people like the challenge, and some people like to farm noobs. Its a pretty mixed bag.

So low level isnt exactly an indication of inexperience. Furthermore, if you give too much of a benefit to low levels, you will have people who take advantage of it by deliberately playing low level characters despite being experienced.

Also, in my experience, 2000 TV for killing a player is a lot, Unless that player was farming bosses (in which case I expect them to know how to put up a fight).

If you want to really disincetivize targeting low level players by max level players, I'd make the lowbie lose the flat rate of 50%, but the killing player get a percentage based on the level differential. That wouldnt solve the problem of people deliberately playing low level players in hopes of grinding in peace, but it would mean that those people don't get to keep anymore TV than normal. It would also reward max CP players for "picking on players their own size" as it were.

But I would like to note that originally players in the Imperial City lost 80% of their Tel Var to the player that killed them, so ZOS has already made it less brutal. 50% is a lot better than 80%.

This Mechanism is already in many games. A online game always need players and players always need a learning curve. Imperial city mobs cannot killed at low level and not even stand a chance against boss. There should be a minimum guarantee for players for how much they can lose to a another player. Anywhere between 1000 -2000 would be correct. Anything above this level , can be farmed. Is 1000 telvars too much of benefit ? 1000 telvars is not even a matter for max CP level player. You will maximum lose 500-1000 telvars per player.

What are are you talking about ? All you want is feed on low bies and drive them away . Congrats , you already done it . All PVP are running 1 bar except vivec. You wont fight bosses or other CP players ? CP players normally farm around 5k-10K. I know some players at max cp level farm at 10k to 50k range.

This issue is not even my concern. I am just leaving the post. If online PVP loses players, it not even my problem. Lets all have fun with empty imperial city and sewars.

VaranisArano

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Kybotica wrote: »

DocDova wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

How about decreasing telvars to 10 percent when killing a lower level player or any player ? So that experienced cancers go to kill the boss rather than killing new bies near opponent base ? When killed by NPCs let it be 75 percent.
How about new players going to court about bullying in game ?

https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/when-cyberbullying-and-bullying-meet-gaming-a-systemic-review-of-the-literature-2161-0487-1000195.php?aid=58701

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/05/how-to-fix-video-games-bullying-problem/371344/

https://www.socialmediatoday.com/content/can-you-sue-cyberbullying

https://nobullying.com/the-rise-of-bullying-in-online-games/

http://news.jrn.msu.edu/bullying/2012/02/15/video-game-griefers/

Again its ZOs problem. Not me or even you. A Game should not designed in such a way to be bullied for an in game. You are not designer or owner of the game. ZOs is responsible for it. Not you or me. Also players leaving the game.

If going to court is only way so be it. ZOs wont give anything until someone fixes the game so be it. ESO gaming community is so worse than any other game . Either they dont know about online games or just keen to exploit.
Again, I have nothing in this.

That's why I was trying to convey to them in hidden way. Bullying while gaming online is an ongoing phenomenon and it's only increasing with more and more games having online feature. I just don't wanted to say it loud, but people could sue them.

Though this bullying is yet limited to gaming only but it might adversely affect teenagers or young adults. doesn't matter if they are victims or bully themselves. Since I am speaking Truth, I shall speak whole truth. I stupidly wasted two Hakeijo rune while trying to complete an enchanting writ, So I decided to farm some in IC, When I reached there I came to know situation is that bad there.

Since Cat is out of bag now, there is no point talking in codes. ZOS There is Bullying happening in PvP areas and it won't be explainable by giving excuse of game mechanics in court of law. What you take as consent wouldn't stand in court. I am an old gamer and last thing I would want is to right winger people picking this to bully gaming companies. NRA and 2nd amendment lovers would happily try to make gaming companies scapegoat for their sins. It would be High School all over again.

Strengthen your defenses, You would face this problem for sure. I would be more than happy just with 2 Hekeijo runes being given to me, But You have a larger problem at hand. If these kind of matter goes to court, Support of Hardcore gamers (or those who like Bullying without realizing they are doing it) wouldn't matter one iota. You can count on my support But despite me being in favor of video game industry, NOW I know that there were steps you could have taken to prevent this kind of bullying But you didn't.

These kind of lawsuits could be biggest problem in front of video game industry in coming years. Preventing this kind of bullying is not just smart step, But also the right thing to do.

Florida: Fla. Stat. Ann. 1006.147(3) (2010): "(a) ‘Bullying’ means systematically and chronically inflicting physical hurt or psychological distress on one or more students and may involve: (1) Teasing; (2) Social exclusion; (3) Threat; (4) Intimidation; (5) Stalking; (6) Physical violence; (7) Theft; (8) Sexual, religious, or racial harassment; (9) Public humiliation; or (10) Destruction of property. . . . (d) The definitions of ‘bullying’ and ‘harassment’ include: (1) Retaliation against a student or school employee by another student or school employee for asserting or alleging an act of bullying or harassment...[and] (2) Perpetuation of [bullying or harassing] conduct ... by an individual or group with intent to demean, dehumanize, embarrass, or cause physical harm to a student..."

Kansas: Kan. Stat. Ann. § 72-8256.C.2 (2009): "‘Cyberbullying’ means bullying by use of any electronic communication device through means including, but not limited to, e-mail, instant messaging, text messages, blogs, mobile phones, pagers, online games and websites."

For additional examples of bullying definitions, see: Del. Code Ann. ***. 14, § 4112D.a (2010); Kan. Stat. Ann. § 72-8256 (2009); 105 Ill. Comp. Stat. Ann. 5/27-23.7(b) (2010).

For additional examples of cyberbullying definitions, see: Iowa Code § 280.28.2 (a) (2008); Md. Code Ann., Educ. § 7-424.3 (2010); 2010 Mass. Adv. Legis. Serv. Ch. No. 92-2010 (Lexis Nexis 2010); N.J. Stat. Ann. § 18A 37.14.2 (2010); Okla. Stat. Ann. ***. 70, § 24-100.3 (2009).

Enumeration of Specific Characteristics
Explains that bullying may include, but is not limited to, acts based on actual or perceived characteristics of students who have historically been targets of bullying, and provides examples of such characteristics.
Makes clear that bullying does not have to be based on any particular characteristic.
Examples Enumeration of Specific Characteristics

North Carolina: N.C. Gen. Stat. § 115C-407.15(a) (2010): "Bullying or harassing behavior includes, but is not limited to, acts reasonably perceived as being motivated by any actual or perceived differentiating characteristic, such as race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, gender, socioeconomic status, academic status, gender identity, physical appearance, sexual orientation, or mental, physical, developmental, or sensory disability, or by association with a person who has or is perceived to have one or more of these characteristics."

Washington: Wash. Rev. Code Ann. § 28A.300.285.2 (2010): "Nothing in this section requires the affected student to actually possess a characteristic that is a basis for the...bullying."

For additional examples of characteristic enumeration, see: 105 Ill. Comp. Stat. Ann. 5/27-23.7.a (2010); Iowa Code § 280.28 (2008); Or. Rev. Stat. § § 339.351.3(2009).

The above are some relevant legal statutes in the US for you regarding bullying. Attacking a player in a zone flagged for PvP does not constitute bullying from a legal standpoint. Analysis of these laws and others (do the research yourself, they're all publicly available online) reveals that, in order for actions to be considered bullying, they must be "systematic and chronic" and must be targeted at a specific individual. Basically, if a person selects a specific individual within a game and follows them around exclusively in order to disrupt their activities and for that purpose only, THEN they are guilty of bullying per statutory definition.

In the case of PvP players in a zone designated for such entertainment purposes, bullying isn't what happens. Just because you get attacked when you don't want to be after entering a zone designated for players to attack one anothers' characters doesn't mean you were bullied. I can almost guarantee that proving that the other players' attacking you was personal, systematic, and chronic, and that it caused physical hurt or psychological distress is not possible and wouldn't be accepted in a court of law. Show me a person attacking you (the same person, and attacking only you while not treating others the same) every time you enter the zone (not just during one brief and isolated incident), and continuing to do so often, and I'll accept that your specific case has some merit. I know, and you know, that that isn't what's happening here.

Your attribution of bullying to PvP flagged zones would be like accusing a fellow student of bullying if they hit you with a dodgeball during a dodgeball game as you walked across an active dodgeball court because you wanted to play with one of the balls being used for that purpose. Entering into an area designated for a specific purpose and then being upset when others assume you're there for that purpose (which, may I remind you, is DESIGNATED by the game and developers in this case) doesn't mean you're being bullied. If you want to play with the ball that's used for dodgeball during a dodgeball game, you better be willing to play some dodgeball to get what you want. Nobody is going to pause their game or adjust from how the game is designed to be played in any way just because you've decided to arbitrarily and independently change the rules to suit your own desires. And they shouldn't be expected to, either.

I get wanting to experience the content, which is fine. I'm ok with them allowing you to enter a "story mode" IC zone to experience the PvE aspects of the area. That said, you shouldn't get the rewards like Telvar or other PvP-exclusive items in that manner. If it's gained solely through PvE activity, such as hakeijo runes, then by all means include that in the story area. But to expect others to conform to your personal standards just because you say so, and to call anybody who doesn't want to do that a bully, is unreasonable.

TL;DR-

What you describe isn't bullying and doesn't fit the legal definition of bullying in any way, shape, or form. Most people are fine with allowing you to experience the PvE-related content such as PvE quests in a story-zone, but you shouldn't expect the same rewards. I'd love to experience all trials, but I don't expect ZoS to make a single-player version that gives the same rewards as the top-tier content because that would be ridiculous.

Kybotica wrote: »

DocDova wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

How about decreasing telvars to 10 percent when killing a lower level player or any player ? So that experienced cancers go to kill the boss rather than killing new bies near opponent base ? When killed by NPCs let it be 75 percent.
How about new players going to court about bullying in game ?

https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/when-cyberbullying-and-bullying-meet-gaming-a-systemic-review-of-the-literature-2161-0487-1000195.php?aid=58701

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/05/how-to-fix-video-games-bullying-problem/371344/

https://www.socialmediatoday.com/content/can-you-sue-cyberbullying

https://nobullying.com/the-rise-of-bullying-in-online-games/

http://news.jrn.msu.edu/bullying/2012/02/15/video-game-griefers/

Again its ZOs problem. Not me or even you. A Game should not designed in such a way to be bullied for an in game. You are not designer or owner of the game. ZOs is responsible for it. Not you or me. Also players leaving the game.

If going to court is only way so be it. ZOs wont give anything until someone fixes the game so be it. ESO gaming community is so worse than any other game . Either they dont know about online games or just keen to exploit.
Again, I have nothing in this.

That's why I was trying to convey to them in hidden way. Bullying while gaming online is an ongoing phenomenon and it's only increasing with more and more games having online feature. I just don't wanted to say it loud, but people could sue them.

Though this bullying is yet limited to gaming only but it might adversely affect teenagers or young adults. doesn't matter if they are victims or bully themselves. Since I am speaking Truth, I shall speak whole truth. I stupidly wasted two Hakeijo rune while trying to complete an enchanting writ, So I decided to farm some in IC, When I reached there I came to know situation is that bad there.

Since Cat is out of bag now, there is no point talking in codes. ZOS There is Bullying happening in PvP areas and it won't be explainable by giving excuse of game mechanics in court of law. What you take as consent wouldn't stand in court. I am an old gamer and last thing I would want is to right winger people picking this to bully gaming companies. NRA and 2nd amendment lovers would happily try to make gaming companies scapegoat for their sins. It would be High School all over again.

Strengthen your defenses, You would face this problem for sure. I would be more than happy just with 2 Hekeijo runes being given to me, But You have a larger problem at hand. If these kind of matter goes to court, Support of Hardcore gamers (or those who like Bullying without realizing they are doing it) wouldn't matter one iota. You can count on my support But despite me being in favor of video game industry, NOW I know that there were steps you could have taken to prevent this kind of bullying But you didn't.

These kind of lawsuits could be biggest problem in front of video game industry in coming years. Preventing this kind of bullying is not just smart step, But also the right thing to do.

Florida: Fla. Stat. Ann. 1006.147(3) (2010): "(a) ‘Bullying’ means systematically and chronically inflicting physical hurt or psychological distress on one or more students and may involve: (1) Teasing; (2) Social exclusion; (3) Threat; (4) Intimidation; (5) Stalking; (6) Physical violence; (7) Theft; (8) Sexual, religious, or racial harassment; (9) Public humiliation; or (10) Destruction of property. . . . (d) The definitions of ‘bullying’ and ‘harassment’ include: (1) Retaliation against a student or school employee by another student or school employee for asserting or alleging an act of bullying or harassment...[and] (2) Perpetuation of [bullying or harassing] conduct ... by an individual or group with intent to demean, dehumanize, embarrass, or cause physical harm to a student..."

Kansas: Kan. Stat. Ann. § 72-8256.C.2 (2009): "‘Cyberbullying’ means bullying by use of any electronic communication device through means including, but not limited to, e-mail, instant messaging, text messages, blogs, mobile phones, pagers, online games and websites."

For additional examples of bullying definitions, see: Del. Code Ann. ***. 14, § 4112D.a (2010); Kan. Stat. Ann. § 72-8256 (2009); 105 Ill. Comp. Stat. Ann. 5/27-23.7(b) (2010).

For additional examples of cyberbullying definitions, see: Iowa Code § 280.28.2 (a) (2008); Md. Code Ann., Educ. § 7-424.3 (2010); 2010 Mass. Adv. Legis. Serv. Ch. No. 92-2010 (Lexis Nexis 2010); N.J. Stat. Ann. § 18A 37.14.2 (2010); Okla. Stat. Ann. ***. 70, § 24-100.3 (2009).

Enumeration of Specific Characteristics
Explains that bullying may include, but is not limited to, acts based on actual or perceived characteristics of students who have historically been targets of bullying, and provides examples of such characteristics.
Makes clear that bullying does not have to be based on any particular characteristic.
Examples Enumeration of Specific Characteristics

North Carolina: N.C. Gen. Stat. § 115C-407.15(a) (2010): "Bullying or harassing behavior includes, but is not limited to, acts reasonably perceived as being motivated by any actual or perceived differentiating characteristic, such as race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, gender, socioeconomic status, academic status, gender identity, physical appearance, sexual orientation, or mental, physical, developmental, or sensory disability, or by association with a person who has or is perceived to have one or more of these characteristics."

Washington: Wash. Rev. Code Ann. § 28A.300.285.2 (2010): "Nothing in this section requires the affected student to actually possess a characteristic that is a basis for the...bullying."

For additional examples of characteristic enumeration, see: 105 Ill. Comp. Stat. Ann. 5/27-23.7.a (2010); Iowa Code § 280.28 (2008); Or. Rev. Stat. § § 339.351.3(2009).

The above are some relevant legal statutes in the US for you regarding bullying. Attacking a player in a zone flagged for PvP does not constitute bullying from a legal standpoint. Analysis of these laws and others (do the research yourself, they're all publicly available online) reveals that, in order for actions to be considered bullying, they must be "systematic and chronic" and must be targeted at a specific individual. Basically, if a person selects a specific individual within a game and follows them around exclusively in order to disrupt their activities and for that purpose only, THEN they are guilty of bullying per statutory definition.

In the case of PvP players in a zone designated for such entertainment purposes, bullying isn't what happens. Just because you get attacked when you don't want to be after entering a zone designated for players to attack one anothers' characters doesn't mean you were bullied. I can almost guarantee that proving that the other players' attacking you was personal, systematic, and chronic, and that it caused physical hurt or psychological distress is not possible and wouldn't be accepted in a court of law. Show me a person attacking you (the same person, and attacking only you while not treating others the same) every time you enter the zone (not just during one brief and isolated incident), and continuing to do so often, and I'll accept that your specific case has some merit. I know, and you know, that that isn't what's happening here.

Your attribution of bullying to PvP flagged zones would be like accusing a fellow student of bullying if they hit you with a dodgeball during a dodgeball game as you walked across an active dodgeball court because you wanted to play with one of the balls being used for that purpose. Entering into an area designated for a specific purpose and then being upset when others assume you're there for that purpose (which, may I remind you, is DESIGNATED by the game and developers in this case) doesn't mean you're being bullied. If you want to play with the ball that's used for dodgeball during a dodgeball game, you better be willing to play some dodgeball to get what you want. Nobody is going to pause their game or adjust from how the game is designed to be played in any way just because you've decided to arbitrarily and independently change the rules to suit your own desires. And they shouldn't be expected to, either.

I get wanting to experience the content, which is fine. I'm ok with them allowing you to enter a "story mode" IC zone to experience the PvE aspects of the area. That said, you shouldn't get the rewards like Telvar or other PvP-exclusive items in that manner. If it's gained solely through PvE activity, such as hakeijo runes, then by all means include that in the story area. But to expect others to conform to your personal standards just because you say so, and to call anybody who doesn't want to do that a bully, is unreasonable.

TL;DR-

What you describe isn't bullying and doesn't fit the legal definition of bullying in any way, shape, or form. Most people are fine with allowing you to experience the PvE-related content such as PvE quests in a story-zone, but you shouldn't expect the same rewards. I'd love to experience all trials, but I don't expect ZoS to make a single-player version that gives the same rewards as the top-tier content because that would be ridiculous.

All have to prove is game mechanics encourages bullying and targeting certain kind of players . PVP area is not a matter. Thats alone is legally sufficient. Everyone entering PVP area knows they will be killed by other player or bosses. Its not about the individual player who kills him or NPC who kills him. If telvars is not involved, it wont even considered an issue. You are not understanding the point. Just cut copy pasting from google does not make you legal expert.
Its developers has to decide. Its not you or me.

The developers made the content. I think they decided a long time ago.
You are, of course, welcome to report behavior you feel is harassment, bullying, and griefing. Of course, ZOS will make the final decision.

What most of us are pointing out is that when you enter a PVP zone, you consent to fighting, killing, and being killed by other players regardless of your level, experience or lack thereof. Charges of harassment, bullying or griefing are going to have to go above and beyond "I got killed in a PVP zone by a max CP dude, so unfair!"

You will be killed by other players. Thats the basic essence of PVP. Of course if a person is way above your level you will be killed. Killing is different , being targeted is different. Charges of harassment, bullying or grieving is not accurate for getting in PVP. Its part of PVP. Being exclusively targeted driving players away is what make the question complicated. Farming lower level players exclusively gives more telvars than killing a boss. Its literally prevents player from playing the game or even entering PVP.

Lets say, If kill a player I get half or more than 2000 telvars, equation is solved. A player will always get 2000 telvars even if he is killed multiple times by other player. I am not saying its only way. I just saying how other games are preventing this exploitation. Its will prevent targeting players as priority and exploiting the system. Going to opponents base and only farming players is not correct. At the same time , it will risk reward higher level players based on multipliers. It wont prevent new players from playing imperial city. They will get something out the DLC for the money they paid at least some quests.

"I got killed in a PVP zone by a max CP dude, so unfair!" Everyone should agree 100 percent. Everyone entering PVP will get killed or killing others. There is no merit in crying over that.

There are experienced players in the Below Level 50 campaign who just constantly reroll new characters once they hit level 50. Some people just prefer that campaign, some people like the challenge, and some people like to farm noobs. Its a pretty mixed bag.

So low level isnt exactly an indication of inexperience. Furthermore, if you give too much of a benefit to low levels, you will have people who take advantage of it by deliberately playing low level characters despite being experienced.

Also, in my experience, 2000 TV for killing a player is a lot, Unless that player was farming bosses (in which case I expect them to know how to put up a fight).

If you want to really disincetivize targeting low level players by max level players, I'd make the lowbie lose the flat rate of 50%, but the killing player get a percentage based on the level differential. That wouldnt solve the problem of people deliberately playing low level players in hopes of grinding in peace, but it would mean that those people don't get to keep anymore TV than normal. It would also reward max CP players for "picking on players their own size" as it were.

But I would like to note that originally players in the Imperial City lost 80% of their Tel Var to the player that killed them, so ZOS has already made it less brutal. 50% is a lot better than 80%.

This Mechanism is already in many games. A online game always need players and players always need a learning curve. Imperial city mobs cannot killed at low level and not even stand a chance against boss. There should be a minimum guarantee for players for how much they can lose to a another player. Anywhere between 1000 -2000 would be correct. Anything above this level , can be farmed. Is 1000 telvars too much of benefit ? 1000 telvars is not even a matter for max CP level player. You will maximum lose 500-1000 telvars per player.

What are are you talking about ? All you want is feed on low bies and drive them away . Congrats , you already done it . All PVP are running 1 bar except vivec. You wont fight bosses or other CP players ? CP players normally farm around 5k-10K. I know some players at max cp level farm at 10k to 50k range.

This issue is not even my concern. I am just leaving the post. If online PVP loses players, it not even my problem. Lets all have fun with empty imperial city and sewars.

I gave you a suggestion for how to actually disincentivize targeting low-level players and yet all I want to do is farm lowbies? Okay...

I don't disagree, necessarily, with what you are trying to accomplish, but I do think your proposed solution shows your inexperience with how PVPers actually play in the Imperial City and in Cyrodiil. I've tried to point out where people could take advantage of your system, and then made a suggestion for how to prevent experienced players from taking advantage of something you intend to help inexperienced players. I'm trying to improve your stated solution.

But if you don't want feedback, even feedback to improve your idea, from someone with a different PVP experience than you, I agree we're done here.

Kalgert

What about the idea I posted in an earlier page? Where you can go in to Cyrodiil, but have no access to the keeps and such, and not get any PvP currencies from there along with no PvP stat balancing (Which can be a good or bad thing), and while in the Imperial City, you don't get any bonuses from the districts, the Faction Guards attack you, and you get Tel'var Stones at a reduced rate (Basically it atays at 1x and doesn't stack up)? Or yeah, just put players in a PvE world of Cyrodiil and the City so they don't get in the way of PvP'ers, along with the limitations I have suggested.

I think that is a much better compromise as opposed to "PVERS GET NOTHING! THEY DESERVE NOTHING! GIT GUT AND PVP FOR UR REWARDS!", since players in the PvE world get to go about the lands, not get in people's way, and still get the same kind of rewards, albeit at a more challenging and slower pace as opposed to being in PvP, where the rewards rack up and you also have baseline stats that help with the whole ordeal.

I don't know, sounds better to me than telling people that they can *** off or go PvP, if they wish similar rewards, although at a much slower pace.

I certainly know I can stomach getting Tel'var stones slower than normally, if it means being care-free in a ruined city (Which let's be honest, at this point it's just a gameplay reason why the war is still on as opposed to a lore reason. We're kinda moving past the whole Soulburst situation with the new Chapters and Content Packs)

What do you folks think?

swippy

i think the rewards in that area were designed to be earned by somebody who's watching their back, and it would be cheap to just give them away at a slightly reduced rate for a drastically reduced difficulty.

VaranisArano

swippy wrote: »

i think the rewards in that area were designed to be earned by somebody who's watching their back, and it would be cheap to just give them away at a slightly reduced rate for a drastically reduced difficulty.

I also agree. The value of Tel Var as a currency comes from risk associated with getting them and losing them to other players.

If you take away that risk, you also take away the value of the reward. I'm fine with a storymode for quests only, but not for things like Tel Var farming, the central sewer event, or non-quest achievements like killing scamps or bosses which are all designed to be accomplished with the added danger and risk of PVP.

IV_Deity

To be fair, Imperial City is not how it was when it was released. There were very large groups running around and everyone was down there farming, easily completing quests and bosses, finding skyshards, etc. Now, it's almost like a ghost town and PvE-rs can't really get into large farming groups down there anymore. I personally feel like PvE players should be able to do these things and not be picked on by PvP players. The OPs main idea is great.

However, entering under "no alliance" would restrict you from earning the armor sets associated with IC and telvar stones.

I can rally behind this.

swippy

i was just down there the other day; our group of 6 was ambushed by a group of 9 or more. then we regrouped and battled a different group of 6 before chasing off a group of 4. i'm not there a lot so maybe we were just lucky, but those ~40 minutes didn't seem dead at all.
i'm not saying you're wrong, just my very limited experience recently gave a very different impression.

Castiel_Silvermist

Okay yeah, getting ganked when you're trying to do a quest in Imperial City or even Cyrodiil in general can be frustrating at times. Been there, done that. When I first started playing ESO over 2 1/2 years ago I was ready to rip my hair out everytime I got killed trying to do a quest because some bloodthirsty EP group spotted me.

However, there are ways around this being constantly ganked. Not that these are guarantees by any means, but they do reduced the chance of it happening.

First off, as others have mentioned already, you can sneak around to your hearts content. Imperial City is smack dab right in the middle of a war, so you should expect to be more vigilant. Sneak = you're invisible to other faction players, unless they are sitting right on top of you.

Secondly, maybe try joining a guild that goes to Imperial City a lot. I run a small pve guild and make a point that we go at least once a week as a guild just to do quests and farm Molag Bal, even doing full blown skyshard hunts across Cyrodiil. The chance that we may run into other players adds to the fun.

And who knows, sometimes you run into players in the opposite factions who wont kill you if you don't kill them. You can even work together with them.

example: My guild was in Imperial City last weekend, we decided to take over a district so that we could get a little more telvar while we quested. Under the flag of the district we discovered a lone EP player fishing. One of our group snuck up to that player and whispered him saying he could keep fishing, we wouldn't bother him. Said player replied in thanks and said he'd do the same to us. He never did bother us.

Other example: We were heading to the center of the Imperial City Sewers to go farm Molag Bal for a few rounds. Discovered 3 EP trying to do the center. 1 of them was in my guild. he talked to the other two, while I talked to my group (as we were on AD toons at the time) and we decided to work together to take Molag Bal down. Yes you read that right, 3 EP and 9 AD worked together to take down Molag Bal. We were careful not to hit one another, bouncing mobs back and forth between us and we were fine. It was challenging and fun.

One final example: I mentioned we do skyshard runs in Cyrodiil. We do it in a multi faction style. As in, all 3 factions meet up in 1 location and we take out delves in search of our precious skill points. We don't attack one another, we don't attack other players not in our group (unless they attack us first). And it works.

SO in conclussion to this long-ish post. We don't need a "No alliance" banner. You just have to be smart in how you play. And maybe you should try one of the less populated servers when you want to quest in PvP territory. Or go during a time of day that isn't supper busy.

You might not enjoy PvP, but maybe just try and have fun. Its just like PvE....except instead of you murdering everything, everything now has the chance to murder you. LOL. All's fair in love and war

DocDova

OK, My final views on issue at hand, after hearing other side and no longer having conflict of interest.

First of all, Some people tried to portray as if I am going to sue ZOS for allowing bullying, Which is very stupid. I target entire industries which does something I don't approve. I Don't have to go to court to cause trouble. Video games are my favorite time pass and only thing else I like very much is debating/discussing online on various boards, To be honest (with honest bragging), I generally debate with highly educated/intelligent people like Physicists/Medical professionals/other experts in fields I have interest in, Which are not as frequent occurrence as I want, They can't debate with me all day, So Me harming video game industry would be like striking an axe on my own foot. Even If I dislike a gaming practice, I won't go targeting them.

I am smart enough to differentiate Punishing myself from Punishing others. Only debates and Gaming can provide entertainment to my brain, Nothing else. I am not saying this because I want something from ZOS or any other company, It's simple truth. I can't imagine my life without gaming.

Now coming to Bullying part and definitions someone copy pasted, I am not a lawyer But a Doctor, So in my expert opinion as a doctor, Bullying can't be limited to a set of various words, It's a feeling which victim feels, Scars it leaves behind on psyche. These law definitions are not absolute and can be revised based upon relevant medical researches/studies. Why I didn't wanted to say 'Someone could sue' ? It's simple If I know something and say it, Far too many people will know including ones who has no place in video game industry and might hold orthodox stance. If I am here, It's not just some gamer chatting between themselves.

Now coming to actual thread topic, If there is some micro economy going on behind scenes (in PvP areas) which is actually benefiting anyone in real world, then I take my request back. I Know some people might be getting some real money out of farming, I can't in good conscience recommend harming them Not at any cost. I Don't believe in making life hard for anyone, Not even in games, So real life is out of question.

If somehow keeping those areas PvP is benefiting the game in general, I take back my request.

If Creating PvE version of same areas would drain too much resources (or make someone life hard in developing team), or is much expensive (I have no idea of game economics), then I take back my request as well, But If ZOS decide it can spare resources then I would expect this request to be fulfilled before harder version of entire game for some elites who think game is too easy for them.

Lastly, If None of above things are present and keeping those areas PvP serves no other purpose than boosting ego of some elite players or people who in general like to make others life hard, Then I would absolutely ask for PvE version of those areas.

Alamakot

AlnilamE wrote: »

Algraxa wrote: »

I think ALL areas should be instanced. PVP and PVE, and HARD MODE...allow the players to choose the type of content they desire.

What would be the objectives of non-Cyrodiil PvP areas?

I'd like... no, I'd simply LOVE to have possibility to kill players using bots for farming nodes. Or those following by 3-4 "shadows" farming mundcrabs or harpies.


@DocDova - PvP areas are integral part of all MMO computer games (if someone know any without pvp in any kind, let me know, pls). The reason is simple - pvp introduces to game much more emotions. Due to actual possibilities of AI behaviour of NPCs is predictable (after taking some area experience). Just take a look at any gameplay videos from (for evample) vet Maelstrom Arena, where players are casting their dot's a second before any sign of mob (or boss) spawn appears.
The same predictable patterns everywhere, from single clanfear spawning near Coldharbour skyshard (close to Mages Guild location) to army behind bridge in Hel Ra Citadel. Always the same place, the same pattern. Boring after some time...

In Pvp areas anyone who entering MUST expect unpredictable human factor. Going to farm Bruma dolmen (everyone love to loot coldharbour balistas and trebs ) I never know if I will be there alone, togheter with some folks from my aliance or get zerged by 15 EP players hidden in buildings and ruins around. No risk -no fun
I don't expect ZOS to remove this kind of entertainment from Cyrodil and Imperial City. Eventually (once a year) 1-2 day special event "Peaceful Cyrodil welcomes Friendly Tourists". All keeps unowned, unguarded and opened, no flags to claim. base gates opened for skyshard collectors. Boring big empty area to travel at your mount

Tasear

I don't mind pain or surprises but travel time is what keeps me away.

Four load screens and a ride on horse is not fun.

CompM4s

Imagine telvar runs but with no risk. Would completly kill the vision zos had for the imperial city.

Priyasekarssk

CompM4s wrote: »

Imagine telvar runs but with no risk. Would completly kill the vision zos had for the imperial city.

CompM4s wrote: »

Imagine telvar runs but with no risk. Would completly kill the vision zos had for the imperial city.

What vision ? Empty imperial city ? New players getting bullied by experienced players ? Get guranteed telvar limits upto 1000-2000 TV. Let the new players come. Put risk reward above 1000-2000 telvars. A new player wont even go beyond that.This is not something new that other games are not doing. Bind resources from PVP to individuals . Dont allow it to them sell in guild stores. Put daily limit on telvars. How about that ?

This is literally stealing money from other players who paid for Imperial city DLC. Oh wait, we monopolize resource market. New player should not come to imperial city . They should be bleeded for gold. Lets always put risk reward as an excuse to farm and leach other players. At the same time cry in forums for PLP DLC. ZOs marginalized PVP. PVP population very tiny for entire population.

ESO player community has a reputation that worst player community in entire online gaming world. ZOs should stop listening to players who proclaim themselves. Player community is driving players away. Its bad for business & game.

VaranisArano

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

CompM4s wrote: »

Imagine telvar runs but with no risk. Would completly kill the vision zos had for the imperial city.

CompM4s wrote: »

Imagine telvar runs but with no risk. Would completly kill the vision zos had for the imperial city.

What vision ? Empty imperial city ? Getting bullied by experienced players ? Get guranteed telvar limits upto 1000-2000 TV. Let the new players come. Put risk reward above 1000-2000 telvars. A new player wont even go beyond that.
This is not something new that other games are not doing.

This is literally stealing money from other players who paid for Imperial city DLC. Oh wait, we monopolize resource market. New player should not come to imperial city and farm telvars. They should be bleeded for gold. Lets always put risk reward as an excuse to farm.

Let's look at how this would actually play out from the perspective of various types of experienced players.

So your suggestion is that up to 1000 Tel Var, I will not lose any to enemy players.

Situation 1: I want to farm Tel Var. I head out of my alliance base with 100 TV for the multiplier and then run tight circles in the sewer areas nearest my base until I have close to 1000 stones, then head into my base and bank them. The biggest risk I run is walking into a wandering sewer boss. Rinse repeat until I have all the TV I want.

That's not broken at all. I'm getting the rewards of a PVP zone without any of the risk of PVP.

Okay, situation 2: I'm an experienced PVPer. I've got AP to burn. I grab my 100 TV for the multiplier, buy a Sigil of Imperial Retreat for 10K AP (chump change because I'm an experienced PVPer), head up to the districts and farm TV until I'm at 1000 TV, pop that sigil of retreat and bank my TV. The biggest risk I run is walking into a District boss. Rinse repeat until I have all the Tel Var I want.

That's not broken at all. I'm getting the rewards of a PVP zone without any risk of PVP.

Okay, situation 3: I'm experienced player, and I'm here to gank people. I carry 100 TV for the multiplier. Maybe even 1000 TV since I'm feeling frisky. Oh, darn, there are all these farmers running around with less than 1000K TV that I can't gank. Oh! There's somebody! Finally! *GANK*
If I lose, I lose nothing as long as I have under 1000 TV. There's no risk to failing a gank since I won't lose anything, I just have to respawn and try again.
If I win, I get Tel Var!
Sounds like a sweet deal for a ganker to me (aside from the people who are blatantly farming up to 1000TV without ever engaging in PVP in a PVP zone.)

Situation 4: The patient ganker. I'm a very patient ganker. The best place to lurk is right outside the other alliance home base and hope to gank people coming back with just slightly over 1000 TV before they bank it. The only risk I run is that I might get really bored waiting around for somebody to come by with over 1000 TV. As long as I have less than 1000k TV myself, I won't lose anything if I die.
Sounds like a sweet deal for a ganker for me (aside from the people who are blatantly farming up to 1000TV without ever engaging in PVP in a PVP zone.)


Once again, your solution can and will be taken advantage of by experienced players to farm Tel Var for little to no risk, thus completely devaluing Tel Var as a currency. Moreover, your suggestion actually reduces the risk of ganking since gankers no longer have to risk their own Tel Var if they are under your limit.

Tel Var is valuable precisely because farming it comes with the risk of losing 50% of what you carry if you die to an NPC or player.