VMoL Progression Group vs Carry

pieratsos · March 2018

Asardes wrote: »

Also "I don't play PvE, I only PvP" is a bad excuse. PvP involves fighting other players, that reach unpredictably, in real time, whilst dungeon and trial mechanics have predictable, pre-programed mechanics. If you can't beat the latter easily, you aren't probably too good at the former either. People who don't react fast enough to the color change in vMoL will eat wrecking blows, crystal frags and shalks in Cyrodiil like there's no tomorrow

You are just assuming that they cant beat it. You are just assuming that anyone who pays for it, is because he is incapable to do it normally. Just because you like PVE it doesnt mean that everyone do. You literally proved why ur logic is fundamentally flawed. A very good PVP player will be more than capable to complete a veteran trial and will also be way more skilled than players who have done the trial normally. But he may simply not like PVE and dont want to go through a long progression to do it so he just pays to get the skin.

Same concept exists in Cyrodiil. You cant associate a high PVP rank with player skill. And there is also nothing wrong with paying a ball group for example to carry you in PVP and get you millions of AP or even buy rep kits and just repair to get AP.

ValkynSketha · March 2018

Why are peoble butthurt about this, peoble in real life do this all the time, why would it matter in pixels?, it devalues the achev?, no it does not the end game community already devalues the achev after beating it, even the flawless conquerer now days mean nothing with some players, get a grip.

DeadRune · March 2018

I find anyone who gets a carry for any of this content seriously sad. It delegitimizes the hard work other players put in to actually get their skins.

tgrippa · March 2018

To everyone who says there is no difference between buying a skin and buying tempering alloys, you are wrong. Whilst ZOS does provide traders for people to purchase items, they do not have a system where people can purchase carries.

There are many skins on the crown store to purchase and hide your vampirism.

When I got my vMoL skin it was a great experience, as I had earned it after lots of hard work.

Play the game as intended, find a friendly group of skilled players and earn your achievements, you will enjoy it a lot more.

Peekachu99 · March 2018

Mureel wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Amp151 wrote: »

Paid Carry/carry = unskilled player who's not good enough to deserve the skin imo
If you're fine with that though, awesome go pay for it.

Pretend you're good enough to clear vMaw on your own accord by "flexing" an achievement based skin that you don't have the skill to achieve.
Ppl will know how you got that skin when they play hard content with you.

If you're having trouble finding solid groups to run with chances are it's you and not the others.

I don't have any trouble finding/building groups that are capable of succeeding in hard content.

Hardest content in the game ain't for everyone...

Hardest content in the game is PvP.

Lol! Hardest content in the game is ERP!

Well, true competitive endgame is now outfits, as we all know. Can’t pay for carries when it comes to fashion! You’re either hot or NOT!

*Snaps fingers, jerks neck, sashays away.

GreenhaloX · March 2018

As much as I enjoy ESO, even more so than many others games, it is still a video game to me. I understand, though, many people are far more passionate (or taking this game far more seriously than it is) about this game. They need to beat everything and get everything, have to be on the leaderboards. Hey, it's cool. It's all good. Play your game. Pay for your carry; whatever. However, just like in real life, I prefer to accomplish something on my own accord and ability or putting in my weight in a group effort. I want to feel I have given it my all and my best. If I'm not capable yet, I will train, practice or whatever needed to get to that level to be effective.

Hey, I understand. A lot of folks just want the shortcut and feel it's ok not to put in the effort as long as something is being done by somebody, or have others do the work for them. Either way, something is getting done. However, I'm also one who never ask or make somebody else do something that I would not do or can't do myself. I don't know; call it having pride in oneself or something to that nature. Well, if needing a free ride or carry in vet and/or hard mode contents is your thing, then go for it. It's just a game, and I'm not the game police or entity such as ZOS who has the say on what players can or not supposed to do within its game contents. I do, however, have to chuckle a bit, though, when I see a lower level toon/player with that vet trial accomplished title and can't clear or having trouble clearing a dolmen or a world boss by him or herself.

kylewwefan · March 2018

people feel like they earned it...that’s a good one. Trying to decide which title I want to “earn” next. Destroyer is enticing. A bit pricey though. Maybe I just stick to skins.

code65536 · March 2018

kylewwefan wrote: »

people feel like they earned it...that’s a good one. Trying to decide which title I want to “earn” next. Destroyer is enticing. A bit pricey though. Maybe I just stick to skins.

So you don't think people earn these things? Then how do you think those who are able to carry your braggart deadweight through were able to do so? I think it's safe to say that those carriers have certainly earned it.

It's one thing to buy a skin carry--I don't like the idea, but whatever, I am not fussed about what others do. But then to go on the forums with your kind of attitude and brag about it--it's almost as if you are trolling for reactions.

Celestro · March 2018

It's a game folks. Let's move along with the pride and egos and judgments for someone that want to rock a skin, not walk around with an actual, tangible advantage over you. If you're the type to believe someone's 'one of the best' for rocking said skin locked behind some difficult content, it's your own fault for assuming. Sit down somewhere with that.

Asardes · March 2018

I really don't think you can be carried to Destroyer though, since vMoL HM is really hard and at least one of the sub-achievements require you to do/avoid certain things. You can't just sit there and let others kill Rakkat on HM. I wish I would be able to complete that one day, since I have friends that have done it, but I'll need dozens of vMoL runs, until I can get everything sorted out, until I even attempt HM. As I said, I'd rather not earn something in a way that doesn't involve me effectively doing my part within the group. For example if I don't do at least 40% of group healing as healer, I don't keep up all the buffs and debuffs on my sub group and someone dies because I didn't heal or purge, or I don't pull at least 12% of group DPS as a DD I begin to feel bad for letting my group down. Same if as tank I don't stack adds, apply debuffs, interrupt, and die from avoidable damage. I avoided playing trials for months at a time, if I felt I was too tired to fully deliver. I simply can't stand not improving my gameplay on a daily basis, and I don't feel accomplished if I don't do that across multiple classes & roles over a longer time frame. For example I still feel bad for not getting Forge Breaker on my Stamina NB yet, and I'm still thinking about the mistakes I did in vMoL last evening, and in vHRC HM a few days ago as healer. Those are the things that keep me going and doing better and better: diagnosis, analysis, improvement.

LeagueTroll · March 2018

kylewwefan wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Tank looking for carry vas +2 carry, i must mt, paying 2 mil.

VHOF is 3.4mil and I think VAS may be the same. You gotta pony up for that carry. IDGAF what role you think your gonna play, gotta pay first. 2 mil. Make me laugh.

Hof is not that hard anymore, it is been nerfrd 3 times already, don’t need no carry. what about 5 mil for vas+2.

kylewwefan · March 2018

The last progression group I just left was actually pretty solid and looked to be able to get a clear soon, but time was up and I had the gold.

I spent a long time in BS trials and progression groups that make ya get a little salty towards the ordeal.

One way or another it’s all earned. What was gonna happen was these people were gonna get their clear and never help the other few in the progression get through. I could see that coming a mile away. So this time I had a backup plan.

In hindsight, I wish that I’d done this a long time ago.

Kuramas9tails · March 2018

Amp151 wrote: »

Paid Carry/carry = unskilled player who's not good enough to deserve the skin imo
If you're fine with that though, awesome go pay for it.

Pretend you're good enough to clear vMaw on your own accord by "flexing" an achievement based skin that you don't have the skill to achieve.
Ppl will know how you got that skin when they play hard content with you.

If you're having trouble finding solid groups to run with chances are it's you and not the others.

I don't have any trouble finding/building groups that are capable of succeeding in hard content.

Hardest content in the game ain't for everyone...

@Amp151 I will strongly disagree with you. The reason I was able to obtain Emperor and even put time into Trials was because I was unemployed and single at the time. I had plenty of time to be flexible with my schedule. Now that I have a full time job as a graphic designer and a boyfriend, I find it hard to sacrifice any time to progressions. I was in a VMOL progression for months and for what my schedule is now, it is unfair of me to try and squeeze myself in progressions when I can not be 100% dedicated like I was in VMOL. Even when I did my paid VHOF run, I didn't die while others did and I still pumped out my max damage. I know for a fact that if I dedicated my time and effort into a progression in VHOF or VAS, I would be good DPS but it's the time I don't have.

Amp151 · March 2018

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

Amp151 wrote: »

Paid Carry/carry = unskilled player who's not good enough to deserve the skin imo
If you're fine with that though, awesome go pay for it.

Pretend you're good enough to clear vMaw on your own accord by "flexing" an achievement based skin that you don't have the skill to achieve.
Ppl will know how you got that skin when they play hard content with you.

If you're having trouble finding solid groups to run with chances are it's you and not the others.

I don't have any trouble finding/building groups that are capable of succeeding in hard content.

Hardest content in the game ain't for everyone...

@Amp151 I will strongly disagree with you. The reason I was able to obtain Emperor and even put time into Trials was because I was unemployed and single at the time. I had plenty of time to be flexible with my schedule. Now that I have a full time job as a graphic designer and a boyfriend, I find it hard to sacrifice any time to progressions. I was in a VMOL progression for months and for what my schedule is now, it is unfair of me to try and squeeze myself in progressions when I can not be 100% dedicated like I was in VMOL. Even when I did my paid VHOF run, I didn't die while others did and I still pumped out my max damage. I know for a fact that if I dedicated my time and effort into a progression in VHOF or VAS, I would be good DPS but it's the time I don't have.

I have a Fiancee and a full time job.
I still have time for progression(2 actually), gym, social things outside of this game etc..

Those are all just excuses imo.

Manage your time better to get all the things you want.

IMO skilled ppl don't need months to beat hard content.
Find or build a group and get it done.

Or pay for a skin and "flex" like you pulled your weight
To each their own.

itsfatbass · March 2018

Bbsample197 wrote: »

itsfatbass wrote: »

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

Carries should be frowned upon. I spent a few months with a progression group learning the mechanics and earning that skin just to see pugs like yourself running around with it. Takes away all feeling of accomplishment and its a huge reason endgame pve in eso is complete trash. They should change it to where all individuals in the group have to be in the trial close to the same amount of time, have to have beat every boss, and had to have been alive for a certain % of the fight.

Amen... carries should be LARGELY frowned upon, and I sure wish they would be against TOS cause it's a poisonous thing to allow in the game.

youre just too poor to buy one.. and theyve got the skin whether you like it or not... just let the salt into you... atleast its an in-game gold itll never be against TOS unless it involves actual money and sharing accounts just to finished VMA is another story

My characters have well over 3 mill gold combined with sales on the daily and I have ALL my skins by.... learning the mechanics, raids and coordinating with a team to finish them! Such a strange concept to actually play the game to win it I know...

Ch4mpTW · March 2018

Honestly, it’s because of these “carry runs” that I rarely do sport my achievement skins. These skins have lost that much value on PS4-NA. And slowly the “Flawless Conqueror” title is reaching that point as well. Too many people account sharing and using Share Play for clears these days.

By the way, the amberplasm skin is an exception in my opinion. This is because it fits my Argonian like a glove. I even use the hist-sap mount and pet for them as well. But in regards to my VMoL skin, and the others like it? N’ah. It doesn’t feel special anymore. Which is sad, because the VMoL skin is my favorite.

Alite · March 2018

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Honestly, it’s because of these “carry runs” that I rarely do sport my achievement skins. These skins have lost that much value on PS4-NA. And slowly the “Flawless Conqueror” title is reaching that point as well. Too many people account sharing and using Share Play for clears these days.

By the way, the amberplasm skin is an exception in my opinion. This is because it fits my Argonian like a glove. I even use the hist-sap mount and pet for them as well. But in regards to my VMoL skin, and the others like it? N’ah. It doesn’t feel special anymore. Which is sad, because the VMoL skin is my favorite.

The vmol skin wouldn't be special regardless of people selling it, its stupid easy to clear now....

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO · March 2018

I don't see the issue here...there were always Rich Noobs and the Poor Pro...also its just another market...everything has a price as long as one can afford it and one can provide it...best thing to do get over it and accept the fact that $ is the 2nd most powerful weapon and the only true Skeleton Key.

Colecovision · March 2018

People have different goals. My wife is a fashion designer, just started playing and she wants dyes and monster trophies to decorate her spooky house. So I’m carrying her through stuff. If she wants a skin, she’ll (I’ll) buy it and it means nothing other than she wanted the skin. If your goal is to show off, you’re doing it wrong. Caring about what other people clear is just as bad.

If I somehow manage to clear vMA, I have no intention of using the title. I want to clear it because it’s difficult for me and I’m a solo player. Now if I could have a title like, goes with gravy, rainbow stare or side of fries, that would be fun.

kylewwefan · March 2018

The VMoL skin is totally worth it. It may not mean anything anymore, but it looks sweet. It could sell for more IMO.

As for Emp, yeah. Your gonna need to take a few days off work and pull some strings to get that.

Maelstrom gets easier the more you do it...heck I was getting on leaderboards before I quit that place.

I do t see many people rocking that pricey VHOF skin. Probably cause it doesn’t look so good.

The silver surfer skin....not nearly as worth it, but getting everyone’s sweet perfected weapons makes it kind of alright

rustic_potato · March 2018

Asardes wrote: »

I really don't think you can be carried to Destroyer though, since vMoL HM is really hard and at least one of the sub-achievements require you to do/avoid certain things. You can't just sit there and let others kill Rakkat on HM. I wish I would be able to complete that one day, since I have friends that have done it, but I'll need dozens of vMoL runs, until I can get everything sorted out, until I even attempt HM. As I said, I'd rather not earn something in a way that doesn't involve me effectively doing my part within the group. For example if I don't do at least 40% of group healing as healer, I don't keep up all the buffs and debuffs on my sub group and someone dies because I didn't heal or purge, or I don't pull at least 12% of group DPS as a DD I begin to feel bad for letting my group down. Same if as tank I don't stack adds, apply debuffs, interrupt, and die from avoidable damage. I avoided playing trials for months at a time, if I felt I was too tired to fully deliver. I simply can't stand not improving my gameplay on a daily basis, and I don't feel accomplished if I don't do that across multiple classes & roles over a longer time frame. For example I still feel bad for not getting Forge Breaker on my Stamina NB yet, and I'm still thinking about the mistakes I did in vMoL last evening, and in vHRC HM a few days ago as healer. Those are the things that keep me going and doing better and better: diagnosis, analysis, improvement.

Meh I remember carrying someone for their Dro Destroyer title for 12 mill gold. All they had to do was get in max mit gear and stand guarded by the off tank and follow basic instructions. Which was pretty much block and follow the off tank pre execute. This was back in Homestead so I don't know if the same strat would work now. They got their title and we got our money.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · March 2018

I bet you are a big fan of cheat codes and console commands. Dont get me wrong, I am happy to carry people through VMOL for coin, but I cant actually call this post a good suggestion, or even a good story. You want to know how to actually get good at PVE in this game? Progress through a trial from start to finish. Boo-freak'n-hoo that it took you a few months. Most of us spent the better part of the year to complete hardmode, and that included some of the top tier guilds in the game at that time.

I just dont get the appeal of what you are proposing. For me, end game PVP has also been about head to head competition (not relevant) and end game PVE has always been about the learning AND mastering of content. You did none of those things, and now, the whole world knows your VMOL skin is equivalent to one from the crown store. Great job.

TLDR: Games too hard, just pay to win.

Also, seriously, who is agreeing with this post or finding it the tiniest bit insightful? We need a "shame on you" button...

Edit: oh yeah, VMOL is harder than VHOF, especially if just comparing HM. VHOF HM is a total joke. I dont recall VMOL HM being completed on day one. VHOF can be a bit more of a cluster f$&k, but that is only because the mechanics in VMOL are much more elegant and better designed.

Merlin13KAGL · March 2018

It's all well and good until the point where someone asks you to put your money where your mouth is.

"Can you come help? Clearly you have the skin, so you must know what you're doing?"

You should simply ask for a different version in the crown store.

I'm not sure why you'd not want to earn it. It's a false 'win.' It baffles me why anyone would ever want to be in a group where they don't or can't contribute.

I'd be flat out offended is someone even offered, regardless of the content or the reason.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · March 2018

Asardes wrote: »

I really don't think you can be carried to Destroyer though, since vMoL HM is really hard and at least one of the sub-achievements require you to do/avoid certain things. You can't just sit there and let others kill Rakkat on HM. I wish I would be able to complete that one day, since I have friends that have done it, but I'll need dozens of vMoL runs, until I can get everything sorted out, until I even attempt HM. As I said, I'd rather not earn something in a way that doesn't involve me effectively doing my part within the group. For example if I don't do at least 40% of group healing as healer, I don't keep up all the buffs and debuffs on my sub group and someone dies because I didn't heal or purge, or I don't pull at least 12% of group DPS as a DD I begin to feel bad for letting my group down. Same if as tank I don't stack adds, apply debuffs, interrupt, and die from avoidable damage. I avoided playing trials for months at a time, if I felt I was too tired to fully deliver. I simply can't stand not improving my gameplay on a daily basis, and I don't feel accomplished if I don't do that across multiple classes & roles over a longer time frame. For example I still feel bad for not getting Forge Breaker on my Stamina NB yet, and I'm still thinking about the mistakes I did in vMoL last evening, and in vHRC HM a few days ago as healer. Those are the things that keep me going and doing better and better: diagnosis, analysis, improvement.

HM can be 11 manned. Its not an easy task, and the destructive nature of the mechanics means you can kill your group with bad play, but I have seen people DC at the beginning of this fight and the group still clears. You need really high DPS to pull it off, because you probably cant carry someone through the lunar phase. Also, carry can be a relative turn. Some people are much easier to "carry" than others.

IlCanis_LupuslI · March 2018

Id Love to join 1 a Progression group but a) my dps is to low they say 42,5 k as a stamblade they want 45 k self buffed as stamblade and b) I literally Can t find a progression ggroup, most groups are already full and only invite people to have a “spare wheel“.
It's sickening I'd much more prefer to earn it but it's turning out to be literally impossible(no im not racechanging from bosmer to redguard not even if id pull 10k dps more),
Xbox eu, flawless conqueror on stamblade / magblade(as I reskilled for a while )
Both earned...

IlCanis_LupuslI · March 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

vMoL isn't really hard though. Join a guild. There will probably be a decent group of a few exp who do training runs.

Nope, at least here in xbox eu

Vaoh · March 2018

Asardes wrote: »

I really don't think you can be carried to Destroyer though, since vMoL HM is really hard and at least one of the sub-achievements require you to do/avoid certain things. You can't just sit there and let others kill Rakkat on HM. I wish I would be able to complete that one day, since I have friends that have done it, but I'll need dozens of vMoL runs, until I can get everything sorted out, until I even attempt HM. As I said, I'd rather not earn something in a way that doesn't involve me effectively doing my part within the group. For example if I don't do at least 40% of group healing as healer, I don't keep up all the buffs and debuffs on my sub group and someone dies because I didn't heal or purge, or I don't pull at least 12% of group DPS as a DD I begin to feel bad for letting my group down. Same if as tank I don't stack adds, apply debuffs, interrupt, and die from avoidable damage. I avoided playing trials for months at a time, if I felt I was too tired to fully deliver. I simply can't stand not improving my gameplay on a daily basis, and I don't feel accomplished if I don't do that across multiple classes & roles over a longer time frame. For example I still feel bad for not getting Forge Breaker on my Stamina NB yet, and I'm still thinking about the mistakes I did in vMoL last evening, and in vHRC HM a few days ago as healer. Those are the things that keep me going and doing better and better: diagnosis, analysis, improvement.

Dromathra Destroyer is tougher to carry through but it’s def doable. First run (HM) you kill Rakkhat before Lunar. Second run you do Void-Avoided and Fang-Focused at the same time. 60-90min process

However, Dromathra Destroyer has unfortunately lost its meaning. Not due to carries, but due to people exploiting vMoL HM (yep, still a thing) and getting it that way.

LadyNalcarya · March 2018

kylewwefan wrote: »

people feel like they earned it...that’s a good one. Trying to decide which title I want to “earn” next. Destroyer is enticing. A bit pricey though. Maybe I just stick to skins.

Umm.
People actually earn them by learning the mechanics, mastering their builds etc. No need to be snarky about it, if it would be easy, you wouldnt need to buy it in the first place.

LadyNalcarya · March 2018

Asardes wrote: »

I really don't think you can be carried to Destroyer though, since vMoL HM is really hard and at least one of the sub-achievements require you to do/avoid certain things. You can't just sit there and let others kill Rakkat on HM. I wish I would be able to complete that one day, since I have friends that have done it, but I'll need dozens of vMoL runs, until I can get everything sorted out, until I even attempt HM. As I said, I'd rather not earn something in a way that doesn't involve me effectively doing my part within the group. For example if I don't do at least 40% of group healing as healer, I don't keep up all the buffs and debuffs on my sub group and someone dies because I didn't heal or purge, or I don't pull at least 12% of group DPS as a DD I begin to feel bad for letting my group down. Same if as tank I don't stack adds, apply debuffs, interrupt, and die from avoidable damage. I avoided playing trials for months at a time, if I felt I was too tired to fully deliver. I simply can't stand not improving my gameplay on a daily basis, and I don't feel accomplished if I don't do that across multiple classes & roles over a longer time frame. For example I still feel bad for not getting Forge Breaker on my Stamina NB yet, and I'm still thinking about the mistakes I did in vMoL last evening, and in vHRC HM a few days ago as healer. Those are the things that keep me going and doing better and better: diagnosis, analysis, improvement.

Its possible to do the hardmode with 11 people, the buyer can just suicide to avoid killing the group with explosion (as far as I know).

code65536 · March 2018

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

my dps is to low they say 42,5 k as a stamblade they want 45 k self buffed as stamblade

LOL. You don't need 45K DPS to beat vMoL non-HM. You don't even need 35K DPS. Here on PC/NA, I see that the guilds that train people for progressing through vMoL usually only ask for minimums of around 30-35K unbuffed (except for ele/pierce) on dummies.

If you look at the videos and screenshots from when Hodor got the world's first speedrun of vMoL, the highest DPS they had on Rakkhat was around 32K. This was someone who didn't run back, including cleave on the hulk, with raid buffs. And with that level of DPS, they got the speedrun and skipped Lunar.

People forget that vMoL was released two years ago, and how much the game has changed since then. Back then, 40K DPS was simply impossible and unheard of. If a guild asks for 45K, then either they are looking for pushing competitive scores (i.e., they're not in the business of training players and expect that people already know what to do) or their leadership has a poor grip on reality. Either way, it sounds like that particular guild isn't the one for you.