VMoL Progression Group vs Carry

kylewwefan

Just pay for it. By far the quickest and easiest way to get it done.

Exceptions would be if you’re gonna be in a guild that runs it normally.....most likely you’ll never run it again. Do you do anything else with your progression group? I never see anyone posting “ Hey you wanna go run VMoL?” It doesn’t happen. Or they can’t beat the first boss. Or the twins. Or the runners keep getting g everyone killed.

I joined yet another progression group in January. Got a whole new gear set to grind out and level up. At the same time I decided to make as much gold I could. Started with about 200k. I made my 1.2 mil gold far quicker than I imagined. I’ve been in Trials guilds for long time. I’m done with Trials guilds.

Ask around trade guilds. Pay the piper.

One of these guys doing carry invite a “friend” in to take his spot so she can get skinned while I’m stuck paying 1.2 mil that’s supposed to include all jewelry but I only get 8....whatever. Got the skin. Never going back. You just wouldn’t with a different group every time. You’d never go anywhere.

I have to admit, it is fun being in a group of players that all hit 35k+. Game mechanics are just silly sometimes.

VHOF is quite a bit more, but after running through there on normal with a pug....it’s well worth it. Deal with the shady scum. Be happy with your sweet new skin. Then rock it and flex like your an eso badass. Not everyone can raise a mil gold.

The_Brosteen

Cool story bro?

kylewwefan

It’s been out for long enough now. Still being Heralded as the holy grail. On PS4 there’s maybe 100 players that can legitimately beat it....somethings not right. It’s just trash gaming.

AzraelKrieg

CSB, want a medal?

SGT_Wolfe101st

Buying carries should get you banned. Period and fact. Flexing your paid carry. I am in guild with a member that is talking about wearing his carried skin with "Pride". Carries devalue the achievement and now skins, titles, nothing is an indication of anything. I can't stand this "I want it, so I should be able to get it" ideology. I too want the skin from vMoL and when my group completes it I will have it, I couldn't imagine wearing a skin that I bought for a carry.

Apache_Kid

SGT_Wolfe101st wrote: »

Buying carries should get you banned. Period and fact. Flexing your paid carry. I am in guild with a member that is talking about wearing his carried skin with "Pride". Carries devalue the achievement and now skins, titles, nothing is an indication of anything. I can't stand this "I want it, so I should be able to get it" ideology. I too want the skin from vMoL and when my group completes it I will have it, I couldn't imagine wearing a skin that I bought for a carry.

As long as the carry is bought with in-game gold and not real world currency I do not see why someone should be banned for this. If 11 other players feel skilled enough to carry someone through content why shouldn't they be able to offer their services for gold? Seems to me like a fair, in-game economic transaction.

Kuramas9tails

I was all against the "pay for it" route until I did a 3 month progression on VMOL and beat it. Now, I wont even touch VMOL unless I know the group is experienced and send people who want to pay to the appropriate people who sell VMOL runs on PS4. I don't even feel bad for paying for my VHOF skin and when I can, I will probably pay for the VAS skin too. I just don't have time anymore. Just like when I got Emp, I will never try to get it again. Way too much time to put in.

Amp151

Paid Carry/carry = unskilled player who's not good enough to deserve the skin imo
If you're fine with that though, awesome go pay for it.

Pretend you're good enough to clear vMaw on your own accord by "flexing" an achievement based skin that you don't have the skill to achieve.
Ppl will know how you got that skin when they play hard content with you.

If you're having trouble finding solid groups to run with chances are it's you and not the others.

I don't have any trouble finding/building groups that are capable of succeeding in hard content.

Hardest content in the game ain't for everyone...

LiquidPony

It sucks that skins are granted after only beating the final boss, honestly.

In both vMoL and vHoF, if you've made it to the final boss you're pretty much done. Not that Rakkhat is easy, but most groups will spend an order or magnitude more time progressing on The Twins (or Pinnacle Factotum and The Triplets) than they will on Rakkhat or the Assembly General.

You should have to beat the whole Trial from beginning to end to get the skins. And of course the exploits that have existed for ages should be removed.

You don't really get anything out of those achievements other than the skins, and yet they are meaningless because half of the people who have them aren't actually capable of beating the content. So now for the people who are in that next tier of raid groups (e.g., can blow through vMoL or vHoF but can't necessarily beat vMoL HM or vAS+2), there's really nothing special.

I don't have any problem with the fact that people do buy skin runs (I certainly don't think they should be banned), but I do think ZOS should change the math on how the skins are rewarded.

kylewwefan

Gimme a break Amp. I was in your guild. You know I’m not a crap player. Just found a way to make some gold and get things done.

LadyNalcarya

SGT_Wolfe101st wrote: »

Buying carries should get you banned. Period and fact. Flexing your paid carry. I am in guild with a member that is talking about wearing his carried skin with "Pride". Carries devalue the achievement and now skins, titles, nothing is an indication of anything. I can't stand this "I want it, so I should be able to get it" ideology. I too want the skin from vMoL and when my group completes it I will have it, I couldn't imagine wearing a skin that I bought for a carry.

It doesnt break any rules, though. Well, unless you buy them for real money.

And yeah, if you play with someone, you will know how they got their skins/titles. Having a vMoL skin is not a free pass to the top guilds, it doesnt add extra dps, its just a cosmetic item. Also, skins are account-wide, so even if your dd has a dromathra skin, it doesnt nessesarily mean that they have great dps, they could get it on their tank or healer... And vice versa.

I have a legit Dromathra destroyer title (which I got in 2016), and both vHoF and vAS skins. Honestly, I dont think that anyone can devalue my achievements by buying skins.

Mister_DMC

Don't really blame you Kyle, been in a number of the same guilds as you. Progression is draining but I've beaten vmol from start to finish, got my skin and never wear it. Most people that actually do wear it are carries. The skin means nothing, I've played with so many people that have it and when they step into actually do vmol they choke hard. The hardest part of progression level content is finding 12 people that will show up and commit the time. I still play the content pretty much weekly, so I'm not one of the one and done type.

Will probably start vhof progression next week, see you in 3 more months.

code65536

My first time in vMoL in was February 2016, when it first appeared on the PTS.

When we cleared it in early July 2016--nearly 5 months after I first set foot in vMoL--we became the third guild on PC/NA to clear it. And it was an overnight clear, too--the group cleared twins, got some practice on Rakkhat, and then kept the instance open, returning to it the next day to get more Rakkhat practice in and eventually clear it.

Were those months frustrating? Certainly. Were they time-consuming? Certainly. Was I wondering why I was wasting my time banging my head against a wall in that shithole trial? Of course. But that moment when we finally killed Rakkhat was well worth it.

But, you know, just because the first clear takes a long time doesn't mean it will always be painful. It gets easier and easier each time. By early 2017, a year after vMoL was out, I was farming vMoL 5-10 times a week (there were no other trials worth running) in impromptu runs PUGed from whoever is online in guild and friends lists, for the plunder and for the chance at sharp Moondancer staves (these were the dark days before transmutation, when it took me about 100 vMoL clears to get a sharp MD lightning staff), with each clear taking only about half an hour. This is a far cry from what those early days were like.

Yea, if each run of vMoL was like that first clear run, I wouldn't want to go back either. But it's not. People get better the more times they run it, and eventually people will go from wiping for hours to 1-shotting everything reliably.

In any case, I despise carries. I will never, ever pay for a skin. Nor will I ever accept payment for a skin. If you want to pay for a skin, sure, you do you. But in my view, you're just robbing yourself of the accomplishment. You get a skin. But you don't get the satisfaction of achievement. And to me, the latter is the real reward.

kylewwefan

I was told I’d get a chance to run with the group but that never happened. And I know how they ended up getting it done. At least the first run. To say “earned” is somewhat a stretch. They sure did put the time in though.

Probably gonna take me about three months to save up enough gold for VHOF. Lol

jssriot

All the drama, parasticism and other extremely distasteful things involving vMOL, vHOF and vAS achieves and skins have legitly turned me off from looking for progression groups to do this content. No one's getting my gold for this. I would rather just cancel my sub and go play something else. I have zero interest in doing this content to prove to other players in this garbage community I'm good--I only want to do it for to challenge myself to be as good as a player I can be. I'd love to find other players who felt the same way but it seems those are the ones most likely to get fed up with the BS in this community and leave, or like me, just go find ways to challenge themselves in the game without dealing with this crap.

Kikke

jssriot wrote: »

All the drama, parasticism and other extremely distasteful things involving vMOL, vHOF and vAS achieves and skins have legitly turned me off from looking for progression groups to do this content. No one's getting my gold for this. I would rather just cancel my sub and go play something else. I have zero interest in doing this content to prove to other players in this garbage community I'm good--I only want to do it for to challenge myself to be as good as a player I can be. I'd love to find other players who felt the same way but it seems those are the ones most likely to get fed up with the BS in this community and leave, or like me, just go find ways to challenge themselves in the game without dealing with this crap.

is this normal behavior on the NA platform? o.O

Mister_DMC

kylewwefan wrote: »

I was told I’d get a chance to run with the group but that never happened. And I know how they ended up getting it done. At least the first run. To say “earned” is somewhat a stretch. They sure did put the time in though.

Probably gonna take me about three months to save up enough gold for VHOF. Lol

Yeah I was never a part of any of those runs but I heard about them.

Mister_DMC

kikkehs wrote: »

jssriot wrote: »

All the drama, parasticism and other extremely distasteful things involving vMOL, vHOF and vAS achieves and skins have legitly turned me off from looking for progression groups to do this content. No one's getting my gold for this. I would rather just cancel my sub and go play something else. I have zero interest in doing this content to prove to other players in this garbage community I'm good--I only want to do it for to challenge myself to be as good as a player I can be. I'd love to find other players who felt the same way but it seems those are the ones most likely to get fed up with the BS in this community and leave, or like me, just go find ways to challenge themselves in the game without dealing with this crap.

is this normal behavior on the NA platform? o.O

Yes, especially on console.

Mister_DMC

People forget that this content is a whole different world of difficulty with no raid notifier. Having to actually watch and look at first boss pads, see the conversions (can be hard on the vashai side), block the thrashing wing etc PC players don't truly understand what a crutch that add on is.

Not to mention that while the twins fps drops on PC, on console during the start it drops to 3-5 fps for the first 20 seconds and is terribly laggy the rest of it.

Kikke

Come over too EU-PC, we have community xD

rustic_potato

This is something that has bugged me for a while. Why do people assume that other people getting carried devalues their achievement?
Not everyone has the time to go through a proper progression. I stopped running progression PVE content ever since Morrowind launched. I got my first vHoF HM clear when some friends needed someone to tank as their main tank didn't show up for raid. I did cause a couple of wipes but we cleared and I got my skin and achievement. Got my vAS HM clear in the same way too on a DPS.
I have also helped a lot of people get their clears in MoL and HoF. Some friends and some paid for clears. It is just a game stop taking virtual achievements so seriously.

malicia

I'm in two minds here.

I can understand the frustration people have with vMoL. My guild is currently trying to learn it, but getting the same 12 people together week after week to learn it is basically impossible. The content is quite fun, and the mechanics doable once you know them, but to teach new people what to do each week is making life much more difficult than needs be. I would like the skin - there's one of my chars who'd look rally good in it - but doing it with 11 other people when none of us can commit to be there every week until we've gotten it down is a little frustrating. So if someone wants to pay for a skin, that's their choice. Just don't act like you're a better player simply because you have it.

On the flip side - it won't feel right to wear a skin that many regards as an achievement when I didn't earn it. I'd pay ingame gold for the cosmetic if I could, but I won't pay for the perception of achievement that goes with it. That I want to earn.

Example - Scalecaller. I really wanted that skin to hide the ugly vamp skins, so I spent lots of time in there with a group of friends. They're all better players than me, so they did carry me to an extend, but I still feel pride in having earned the skin. Buying it just wouldn't be the same.

code65536

Mister_DMC wrote: »

People forget that this content is a whole different world of difficulty with no raid notifier. Having to actually watch and look at first boss pads, see the conversions (can be hard on the vashai side), block the thrashing wing etc PC players don't truly understand what a crutch that add on is.

Not to mention that while the twins fps drops on PC, on console during the start it drops to 3-5 fps for the first 20 seconds and is terribly laggy the rest of it.

RN didn't exist when we were working on vMoL, and I have most of RN's notifications disabled, because otherwise it becomes way too noisy and distracting. In many ways, I think newer players over-rely on RN.

The addon's pad indicators aren't that reliable, so I've always relied on a visual inspection in-game rather than looking at the indicator. The important thing to note is that the time it takes for a pad to reactivate is exactly the same as the amount of time you have before you die from the curse. This means, if at the moment you get cursed, you see that a pad is inactive, you can go and stand on that pad, and it'll reactivate and cleanse you before you die from the curse. If you see someone take that pad after you had gotten cursed, then that pad will not be able to save you. But any pad that had already been taken by the time you got cursed can be used. Most people don't realize this and only go for pads that are lit up. Once people stop freaking out over not finding an already-lit pad, this mechanic becomes more easier, as long as there is no cross-cursing.

The color swap on twins is probably the biggest reason to get RN, because the things don't render for some people. But if the swap circles render properly for you, then I personally think that's easier than RN and I have the RN notification spam disabled on that fight. The bosses have a very distinct tell when they are putting out colors, so tanks can call out "colors", and people should then look at their feet.

Similarly, on Rakkhat, I disabled most of RN's notifications. The MT should be able to easily spot Meteors, and they should call it out. They can also call out Threshing Wings. The void bomb one is pretty useful, though, since the circle at your feet can be hard to notice if it happens during meteors.

kylewwefan

Im pretty happy with the carry. My Vampire Khajit looks soooo much better now.

Not wasting anymore time with a progression that will probably never run again once they get what they want. Hoping to make a roster; or making a roster when I know I can’t run, then feel bad cause I just gave up a possible chance to finally get a clear.

Whatever. It’s done. I don’t have much interest in the other skins, so they can wait awhile.

Waffennacht

People still associate this skin as an accomplishment?

I thought it didn't mean anything a few years ago.

I don't think I've seen the Scalecaller Peak skin irl yet

BEZDNA

If anyone knows a raid that does vMoL and vHoF carry on PC NA for gold - let me know. I would gladly pay for skins

Mister_DMC

Waffennacht wrote: »

People still associate this skin as an accomplishment?

I thought it didn't mean anything a few years ago.

I don't think I've seen the Scalecaller Peak skin irl yet

Couple people in my guild have earned it, there's already a market for it too

itsfatbass

This is a sickening post. The whole paying gold for a carry thing is ludicrous and ridiculous and then you've got people like the OP saying that because they were able to make a million gold to PAY for this carry, that makes them an ESO bad ass? Making a million gold, firstly, doesn't take JACK for effort, and secondly... nm I'm just gonna stop there... I can't....

ak_pvp

vMoL isn't really hard though. Join a guild. There will probably be a decent group of a few exp who do training runs.

LeagueTroll

Tank looking for carry vas +2 carry, i must mt, paying 2 mil.

Jura23

Amp151 wrote: »

Paid Carry/carry = unskilled player who's not good enough to deserve the skin imo
If you're fine with that though, awesome go pay for it.

Pretend you're good enough to clear vMaw on your own accord by "flexing" an achievement based skin that you don't have the skill to achieve.
Ppl will know how you got that skin when they play hard content with you.

If you're having trouble finding solid groups to run with chances are it's you and not the others.

I don't have any trouble finding/building groups that are capable of succeeding in hard content.

Hardest content in the game ain't for everyone...

Hardest content in the game is PvP.