40k on a test dummy?

Shantu · February 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

Because if you go crushing shock + frags (this is what I see in your videos):
- you are not using spellpower pots
- you are heavy attacking (HA), which is something you need to do way later in the parse (last half or less of target dummy health) or you lose lots of DPS. You may tell: "I am going to finish my magicka if I wait!". No, you are going to finish magicka because you have picked an extremely taxing spec but don't use the expensive pots it requires and you stick to (cheap indeed!) surge like you are using an HA rotation.

Basically, read information and truly understand your spec mechanics at depth, beginning with the pros and cons of it.

@Vahrokh
So here's something I don't understand. I can't maintain the rotation I've posted without the frequent HA. Even then I run low on magicka and have to throw a several rounds of double HA with a FP. So yeah, if I wait until "last half or less of target dummy health" I'd run low very quickly. I know this slows the dps down. You say I "have picked an extremely taxing spec", but I don't know what that would be. I've looked at this build today and he's pretty much doing the same thing:

https://alcasthq.com/eso-magicka-sorcerer-build-pve/

I copied his CP allocation and the gear is close enough. The rotation he uses is pretty much the same, without the HA's. So still haven't got this figured out.

I understand the spellpower pots are better that surge. The extra 20% magicka recover pretty much takes care of my resource problem, but the extra 8.4 seconds of cool down is a pain and dps starts falling quickly. Maybe throw surge during the cool down?

But on the other hand, the video that @LiquidPony posted on the first page is using a clench to my FP and is simply throwing a curse, HA, clench, HA + the dot's. I try this same rotation, and while my resources stay high, my dps goes down and I don't get even half of his dps. Confusing.

Good news is I'm able to hit 18k now over 3 mil. Not consistently, but enough to make me feel rowdy! So I am improving!

Tons of good info in this thread. Thanks to everyone for taking the time to contribute.

Lord-Otto · February 2018

You need the alchemist passive that prolongs potion duration. It'll get the duration to 47 seconds, so two seconds longer than the actual cooldown. Must-have passive!

Vahrokh · February 2018

Shantu wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Because if you go crushing shock + frags (this is what I see in your videos):
- you are not using spellpower pots
- you are heavy attacking (HA), which is something you need to do way later in the parse (last half or less of target dummy health) or you lose lots of DPS. You may tell: "I am going to finish my magicka if I wait!". No, you are going to finish magicka because you have picked an extremely taxing spec but don't use the expensive pots it requires and you stick to (cheap indeed!) surge like you are using an HA rotation.

Basically, read information and truly understand your spec mechanics at depth, beginning with the pros and cons of it.

@Vahrokh
So here's something I don't understand. I can't maintain the rotation I've posted without the frequent HA. Even then I run low on magicka and have to throw a several rounds of double HA with a FP. So yeah, if I wait until "last half or less of target dummy health" I'd run low very quickly. I know this slows the dps down. You say I "have picked an extremely taxing spec", but I don't know what that would be. I've looked at this build today and he's pretty much doing the same thing:

https://alcasthq.com/eso-magicka-sorcerer-build-pve/

I copied his CP allocation and the gear is close enough. The rotation he uses is pretty much the same, without the HA's. So still haven't got this figured out.

I understand the spellpower pots are better that surge. The extra 20% magicka recover pretty much takes care of my resource problem, but the extra 8.4 seconds of cool down is a pain and dps starts falling quickly. Maybe throw surge during the cool down?

But on the other hand, the video that @LiquidPony posted on the first page is using a clench to my FP and is simply throwing a curse, HA, clench, HA + the dot's. I try this same rotation, and while my resources stay high, my dps goes down and I don't get even half of his dps. Confusing.

Good news is I'm able to hit 18k now over 3 mil. Not consistently, but enough to make me feel rowdy! So I am improving!

Tons of good info in this thread. Thanks to everyone for taking the time to contribute.

First of all, I usually suggest learning with training wheels, not from Alcast, an Hodor guild member. They are the top worldwide (recently reformed) PvE guild and his builds are your final destination, not your beginning.

His CPs and other parameters are tuned to top end veteran trials with a tightly controlled and extremely skilled top worldwide team.

If you are "just human" like me, you are better starting with something simple, stupid and go up from there. That's why I'd suggest starting with a cheap, stupid HA (heavy attack) build and go up from that.

What's good about a stupid, boring, HA build?
- it's relatively cheap and fast to gear up
- it's cheap to train for
- it's fast to learn
- it's easy to repeat (till boredom).

Each of these points is important, especially the last two.

If you want, I can send you the link to a private video of mine showing a boring rotation where:

I achieve 25K DPS. At this point many will stop reading, and that's good! They don't deserve to learn more.
I achieve 25K DPS with no potion AT ALL.
I use no food at ALL.
I use no "cheese DPS parse" Lover mundus stone.
I use no MA nor vMA nor Moondancer staff at all, just two random staves I had in inventory.
I use no FOTM race, my sorc is Dunmer
No "Youtuber factor", even a potato can achieve and double check the stats I have in my video. No more "I copied his gear and specs yet he has 2k health and 4k magicka and 500 spellpower more than mere mortals!".
Easily obtained (not necessarily cheap!) gear. Only exception is the Moondancer jewelry, but I am using old blue jewels in that video and you can actually achieve more DPS by using purple Willpower jewelry you can buy for cheap at any guild store.
I recorded it when Dragon Bones patch was still buggy and abilities and bar swap lagged a lot. So at the beginning I cast the same spell 2-3 times (it "hiccupped" and then it "got out" all together). I purposedly left the "mistakes" to show you can still get 25k with errors.

That's the ultimate learning rotation, because you can practice for hours and hours without any cost, any unpredictable "proc" (except the fairly predictable off-balance, which I use to regain double magicka!).

Only after you have mastered that simple, boring, stupid rotation and achieved 24k (not a typo), then you can start adding "ingredients", one at a time: foods, pots etc. And finally, to tune CPs to your own playstyle (download and install the Constellations add-on) and eventually switch to a better rotation!

Berenhir · February 2018

Shantu wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

OP's defensive (red) CP need a complete rework as well...

Thanks. Any recommendations?

I'll nick those from Alcast's:
The Lord
20 Bastion
The Lady
49 Hardy, 49 Elemental Defender, 48 Thick Skinned
The Steed
66 Ironclad, 8 Spell Shield

Septimus_Magna · February 2018

Shantu wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

@Shantue

Your stats seem a bit off, are you running tri-stat food? Also your spell dmg is pretty low so I would assume no gold weapon, spell power buff or spell dmg enchant proc?

Try running witchmothers potent brew (max health/magicka and magicka regen), one health enchant on your chest and the rest all max magicka. You should have decent health with a pet up.

It also helps to run 5 light, 1 medium and 1 heavy for the undaunted passive that gives 6% health/magicka/stamina.

Maybe you can download the Superstar addon so we can see all your stats, gear and CP. It would really help to see where you could use improvement.

P.S. Dont give up hope, there are a lot of skilled players willing to help so you’ll get there eventually.

Heretofore I haven't been very disciplined in dungeons, go a little helter-skelter, and run low on magicka so I was putting magicka recover on my jewelry. After replacing all with Spell Damage here are my stats:

Toon is a High Elf Sorcerer (see stats below). Food is tri-stat (4462 health and magicka, 4105 Stamina for 2 hours). Haven't got the Undaunted passives yet on this toon. Buffed with Power Surge IV. I know I need monster gear, but put me in a vet dungeon and I usually embarrass myself

Superstar:

Yesterday worked on all day rotation until I was cross-eyed. Sill can only manage about 12K with an occasional short peak at 16K. Still have a long way to go before this is smooth. I'm trying different rotations, but basically:

Back bar
Light attack (LA)
Power Surge (only every 4 times)
LA
Liquid Lightening
LA
Elemental Blockade
Swap to Front bar

LA
Force Pulse (with anim canceling via Block)
Heavy Attack (while executing I add Endless Fury)
Once HA is finished, Endless Fury executes, anim canceld with Block)
LA
Force Pulse (with anim canceling via Block)
LA
Force Pulse (with anim canceling via Block)
Swap to back bar

LA
Liquid Lightening
LA
Elemental Blockade
Swap to Front bar
Etc...

Have no idea how some can get high dsp with just a heavy attack

With this current setup I can only see myself hitting about 16k if I perfect the rotation. Not giving up.

Thats for the superstar overview, it gives a lot of useful info.

There are a couple things you'd want to change.

Food: get witchmothers potent brew, if you run out of magicka your dps will go down as well.
Potions: get spell powers potions, it helps a lot with sustain because Power Surge isnt cheap.
Gear: replace TBS with Julianos since you already have the gold staffs.
Enchants: on you lightning staff you want weapon/spell dmg glyph, this increases spell dmg by 348 for 5 seconds.

Skills: because you struggle

Rotation:

Vahrokh wrote: »

Shantu wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Because if you go crushing shock + frags (this is what I see in your videos):
- you are not using spellpower pots
- you are heavy attacking (HA), which is something you need to do way later in the parse (last half or less of target dummy health) or you lose lots of DPS. You may tell: "I am going to finish my magicka if I wait!". No, you are going to finish magicka because you have picked an extremely taxing spec but don't use the expensive pots it requires and you stick to (cheap indeed!) surge like you are using an HA rotation.

Basically, read information and truly understand your spec mechanics at depth, beginning with the pros and cons of it.

@Vahrokh
So here's something I don't understand. I can't maintain the rotation I've posted without the frequent HA. Even then I run low on magicka and have to throw a several rounds of double HA with a FP. So yeah, if I wait until "last half or less of target dummy health" I'd run low very quickly. I know this slows the dps down. You say I "have picked an extremely taxing spec", but I don't know what that would be. I've looked at this build today and he's pretty much doing the same thing:

https://alcasthq.com/eso-magicka-sorcerer-build-pve/

I copied his CP allocation and the gear is close enough. The rotation he uses is pretty much the same, without the HA's. So still haven't got this figured out.

I understand the spellpower pots are better that surge. The extra 20% magicka recover pretty much takes care of my resource problem, but the extra 8.4 seconds of cool down is a pain and dps starts falling quickly. Maybe throw surge during the cool down?

But on the other hand, the video that @LiquidPony posted on the first page is using a clench to my FP and is simply throwing a curse, HA, clench, HA + the dot's. I try this same rotation, and while my resources stay high, my dps goes down and I don't get even half of his dps. Confusing.

Good news is I'm able to hit 18k now over 3 mil. Not consistently, but enough to make me feel rowdy! So I am improving!

Tons of good info in this thread. Thanks to everyone for taking the time to contribute.

First of all, I usually suggest learning with training wheels, not from Alcast, an Hodor guild member. They are the top worldwide (recently reformed) PvE guild and his builds are your final destination, not your beginning.

His CPs and other parameters are tuned to top end veteran trials with a tightly controlled and extremely skilled top worldwide team.

If you are "just human" like me, you are better starting with something simple, stupid and go up from there. That's why I'd suggest starting with a cheap, stupid HA (heavy attack) build and go up from that.

What's good about a stupid, boring, HA build?
- it's relatively cheap and fast to gear up
- it's cheap to train for
- it's fast to learn
- it's easy to repeat (till boredom).

Each of these points is important, especially the last two.

If you want, I can send you the link to a private video of mine showing a boring rotation where:
I achieve 25K DPS. At this point many will stop reading, and that's good! They don't deserve to learn more.

I achieve 25K DPS with no potion AT ALL.

I use no food at ALL.

I use no "cheese DPS parse" Lover mundus stone.

I use no MA nor vMA nor Moondancer staff at all, just two random staves I had in inventory.

I use no FOTM race, my sorc is Dunmer

No "Youtuber factor", even a potato can achieve and double check the stats I have in my video. No more "I copied his gear and specs yet he has 2k health and 4k magicka and 500 spellpower more than mere mortals!".

Easily obtained (not necessarily cheap!) gear. Only exception is the Moondancer jewelry, but I am using old blue jewels in that video and you can actually achieve more DPS by using purple Willpower jewelry you can buy for cheap at any guild store.

I recorded it when Dragon Bones patch was still buggy and abilities and bar swap lagged a lot. So at the beginning I cast the same spell 2-3 times (it "hiccupped" and then it "got out" all together). I purposedly left the "mistakes" to show you can still get 25k with errors.

That's the ultimate learning rotation, because you can practice for hours and hours without any cost, any unpredictable "proc" (except the fairly predictable off-balance, which I use to regain double magicka!).

Only after you have mastered that simple, boring, stupid rotation and achieved 24k (not a typo), then you can start adding "ingredients", one at a time: foods, pots etc. And finally, to tune CPs to your own playstyle (download and install the Constellations add-on) and eventually switch to a better rotation!

Good tips but I would use Witchmothers Potent Brew so you dont struggle too much with sustain while learing the rotation.

Merlin13KAGL · February 2018

A few things I'd add in here:

On the lightning Heavy attacks, make sure you're holding them to completion (the final explosion) or you get zero resource return. You can also see the tick happen on your stat bar. If you're releasing even a split second early, you're not getting your resources back, nor full HA damage.
If something hiccups in your rotation, or a boss moves, keep doing the rotation. Let your DoTs run out where they stand. You may lose a bit of DPS, but you won't mess up your rotation timing, nor will you burn additional resources recasting skills 3x in the timeframe you'd normally cast them once.
Look at the Resources tabs at the upper right of Combat Metrics. It will outright show you what your most expensive skills are compared to the things that regen resources. It can help sometimes give you an idea where a bit of extra drain is coming from (such as point two, above).

Vahrokh · March 2018

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Good tips but I would use Witchmothers Potent Brew so you dont struggle too much with sustain while learing the rotation.

The rotation (as indicated) is an HA rotation. I've chosen it on purpose so that he can train without using Witchmother.

Actually, he can do that rotation without ANY food at all. Once he is proficient, he can use blue food, because HA rotations "by definition" don't need Witchmother.

SirAndy · March 2018

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Can we see a parse of this?

I did indeed run a couple of parses last weekend but ZOS told me to stay out of this thread, so no posting them here.

Apparently some people get really pissed off when you don't agree with them ...

ccfeeling · March 2018

SirAndy wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Can we see a parse of this?

I did indeed run a couple of parses last weekend but ZOS told me to stay out of this thread, so no posting them here.

Apparently some people get really pissed off when you don't agree with them ...

What...?

SirAndy · March 2018

ccfeeling wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Can we see a parse of this?

I did indeed run a couple of parses last weekend but ZOS told me to stay out of this thread, so no posting them here.
Apparently some people get really pissed off when you don't agree with them ...

What...?

My posts were "reported" and subsequently removed and ZOS told me to not further upset the people that reported me.

Lord-Otto · March 2018

Just so you know, I didn't report. I was somewhat surprised to see posts missing. Had no chance to read your last comment, even. Probably better...

People are still curious, and you've already posted here again, so I see no reason not to give us a number. You claimed you found a creative build able to compete with the meta while not relying on the popular spellpowercrit/weaponpowercrit potions. I'd say if that setup performs around 3k less than meta builds, it'd be worth sharing, for the people that are short on reagents.

Shantu · March 2018

Here's what I'm currently using:

Using Witchmothers Potent Brew. I've got a 5pc set of purple War Maidens I switch out with the Spinners. Doesn't make much difference though. I'm pretty much stuck in a 16-17k rut (and that's with dumping an ultimate and keep Elem Drain up) and magicka resource is a big issue. As soon as I inevitably start throwing in some extra HA's, dps suffers. I'm pretty close to running running a full 4 cycles in the 33 second Surge cycle. I work like hell on the rotation speed. Hard to find that sweet spot between pushing too hard that you start missing things and too slow. I've tried some HA rotations but they get me nowhere.

@Vahrokh
I'd be interested in trying out your boring HA rotation and setup. Since it's private, I shoot you a pm. Thanks!

@Merlin13KAGL
I'm holding my HA's to completion as I wait for them to pop. I have a Combat Metrics. Thanks for the tip on the Resources tab. Hadn't seen that. FP is far and away my biggest drain, followed by the dot's (which I can't do anything about). Lol! And I have some telling me I sound be shooting 5 FP off per rotation when even the 2-3 get me into magicka trouble.

Feel like I've hit a wall here. By all accounts I should be able to get to 25K, but I feel like I'm whipping a turtle in a horse race. It's 2:16 AM, I'm blurry eyed, and obsessing about my rotation. Lol!

Lord-Otto · March 2018

Hm...
Your magicka seems fairly low for having IL and BA slotted. Your mask could use a magicka enchant. And do you have Undaunted 9 yet?
Your staves are probably switched. Use the nirnhoned one on the DoT bar. You want an infused one on the front, with a shock or fire enchant. Which one depends on how much Concussion you proc already. I think solo, shock should outperform. Also, with a Force Pulse rotation, you see better numbers with a fire staff on front.
For a Force Pulse rotation, I would also always slot Frags. They typically increase dps if you're not super unlucky, and they give the nice Minor Prophecy buff if you're solo.
You point out heavy attacks. How many do you need on the 3M dummy to sustain? I'm fine with three...

Shantu · March 2018

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Hm...
Your magicka seems fairly low for having IL and BA slotted. Your mask could use a magicka enchant. And do you have Undaunted 9 yet?
Your staves are probably switched. Use the nirnhoned one on the DoT bar. You want an infused one on the front, with a shock or fire enchant. Which one depends on how much Concussion you proc already. I think solo, shock should outperform. Also, with a Force Pulse rotation, you see better numbers with a fire staff on front.
For a Force Pulse rotation, I would also always slot Frags. They typically increase dps if you're not super unlucky, and they give the nice Minor Prophecy buff if you're solo.
You point out heavy attacks. How many do you need on the 3M dummy to sustain? I'm fine with three...

Yeah, I'm still getting accustomed to running 16k health (I've usually run around 21-23k) that's why I left the health enchant on the mask. But then again replacing it with a magicka enchant is probably not going to affect play as long as I keep my ward up. I've also got 5 attribute points in health I can try redistributing into magicka.

I kept the nirnhoned staff on the front bar because it boosted my spell damage more than the infused. But when buffed with a spell pot or surge, spell damage with the infused is at 3301. I'll try sticking a shock enchant on the infused staff and switch it to the front bar. If that doesn't help, I'll try an infused fire staff.

I've tried slotting frags but I've not been able to work it into a rotation in a way that's beneficial. Sustain is an issue. You can run with only 3 HA's on an entire 3 mil? I can't sustain with 1 on every rotation so I'm using it at the every time I'm on the front bar! The 20% regen I get with a spell power pot helps a lot, but at this point in trying to perfect things, I'm just using surge. Still, something seems off.

Still not at Undaunted 9 yet with this toon, but I do understand the benefits of the passives.

Thanks for the recommendations. Back to the dummy

Lord-Otto · March 2018

Well, it adds up. The more damage I already have, the less sustain I need. Which leads to even more damage.

You throw a Frag when it's procced instead of a Force Pulse. Just gotta monitor the proc closely.

17k is usually recommended as an hp pool. You should get there with Undaunted and maybe the tank wearing Ebon. For now, it's actually a good idea to have a health enchant or health attribute points.

Shantu · March 2018

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Well, it adds up. The more damage I already have, the less sustain I need. Which leads to even more damage.

You throw a Frag when it's procced instead of a Force Pulse. Just gotta monitor the proc closely.

17k is usually recommended as an hp pool. You should get there with Undaunted and maybe the tank wearing Ebon. For now, it's actually a good idea to have a health enchant or health attribute points.

Yeah, I'm only running a little over 14k on health with magicka enchant on the mask and putting all attributes into magicka. Without the ward constantly up I'm a sitting duck. I may go back to what it was. Sustain still gives me fits though and kills dps when I have to deal with it.

Good thing though is that using the infused staff with a shock enchant on the front bar I was able to pull 19.9k one time from the dummy.

Thanks so much to everyone that has taken the time to contribute advice. Still have some things to work out but it's made a helluva difference!

DoctorESO · March 2018

SirAndy wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Can we see a parse of this?

I did indeed run a couple of parses last weekend but ZOS told me to stay out of this thread, so no posting them here.

Apparently some people get really pissed off when you don't agree with them ...

I'm confused.

Lord-Otto · March 2018

20k is actually pretty acceptable! That's well enough for most vet dungeons! Glad to hear that!
=D

Asardes · March 2018

34-38K Magicka? Are you even using food

Spamming heavy attacks is ~10K by itself, add 1 DoT and you are at 15K, add the 2nd and you'll break 20K
Also TBS is utter garbage for ~1 year now

DoctorESO · March 2018

Shantu wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Well, it adds up. The more damage I already have, the less sustain I need. Which leads to even more damage.

You throw a Frag when it's procced instead of a Force Pulse. Just gotta monitor the proc closely.

17k is usually recommended as an hp pool. You should get there with Undaunted and maybe the tank wearing Ebon. For now, it's actually a good idea to have a health enchant or health attribute points.

Yeah, I'm only running a little over 14k on health with magicka enchant on the mask and putting all attributes into magicka. Without the ward constantly up I'm a sitting duck. I may go back to what it was. Sustain still gives me fits though and kills dps when I have to deal with it.

Good thing though is that using the infused staff with a shock enchant on the front bar I was able to pull 19.9k one time from the dummy.

Thanks so much to everyone that has taken the time to contribute advice. Still have some things to work out but it's made a helluva difference!

Great job!

This is the true power of the forums community!

NyassaV · March 2018

if you are only managing 10-12k thats pretty sad. Are you weaving, sustain issues? aim for 20K minimum to be viable in endgame(ish) content)

s7732425ub17_ESO · March 2018

Shantu wrote: »

Here's what I'm currently using:

Using Witchmothers Potent Brew. I've got a 5pc set of purple War Maidens I switch out with the Spinners. Doesn't make much difference though. I'm pretty much stuck in a 16-17k rut (and that's with dumping an ultimate and keep Elem Drain up) and magicka resource is a big issue. As soon as I inevitably start throwing in some extra HA's, dps suffers. I'm pretty close to running running a full 4 cycles in the 33 second Surge cycle. I work like hell on the rotation speed. Hard to find that sweet spot between pushing too hard that you start missing things and too slow. I've tried some HA rotations but they get me nowhere.

@Vahrokh
I'd be interested in trying out your boring HA rotation and setup. Since it's private, I shoot you a pm. Thanks!

@Merlin13KAGL
I'm holding my HA's to completion as I wait for them to pop. I have a Combat Metrics. Thanks for the tip on the Resources tab. Hadn't seen that. FP is far and away my biggest drain, followed by the dot's (which I can't do anything about). Lol! And I have some telling me I sound be shooting 5 FP off per rotation when even the 2-3 get me into magicka trouble.

Feel like I've hit a wall here. By all accounts I should be able to get to 25K, but I feel like I'm whipping a turtle in a horse race. It's 2:16 AM, I'm blurry eyed, and obsessing about my rotation. Lol!

No offense, but this is mind boggling. Although your setup isn't perfect, it's 90% of the way there, and you should have no problems whatsoever hitting 25k.

Obviously gear is not the issue. For your case, you are just doing something so woefully wrong, that only a video of you doing a target skeleton will really help.

Shantu · March 2018

Hollery wrote: »

if you are only managing 10-12k thats pretty sad. Are you weaving, sustain issues? aim for 20K minimum to be viable in endgame(ish) content)

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

No offense, but this is mind boggling. Although your setup isn't perfect, it's 90% of the way there, and you should have no problems whatsoever hitting 25k.

Obviously gear is not the issue. For your case, you are just doing something so woefully wrong, that only a video of you doing a target skeleton will really help.

Absolutely no offense taken. I know I'm sad and woefully suck. But if you read through the posts you'll see I continue to be a work in progress! Pretty much had to retreat to ground zero and relearn.

DoctorESO wrote: »

Great job!

This is the true power of the forums community!

Lord-Otto wrote: »

20k is actually pretty acceptable! That's well enough for most vet dungeons! Glad to hear that!
=D

Thank you mates! And thanks for your help. I'm now blasting 20k and getting pissed when I screw my rotation up and only hit 19.

Gotta work on those passives and perfect the rotation, but considering where I started, I'm definitely moving with a bit of a swagger. 25k here I come!

LiquidPony · March 2018

Runefang wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Mitoice wrote: »

I have question... i can do 25-30 k dps on a target dummy WITHOUT using the ultimate....

Are you talking about 40k WITH ultimate??

Yes, these are with ultimates. What's the point of parsing without ultis?

If you're just practising it's fine to just not use ulti's, saves having to build up to 500 ulti every time. Save that for when you want to show off the parse to your vet trial guild. I know my destro ulti will hit for ~3.5k DPS depending on my crit luck so I just add that on top.

Why would you build up 500 ulti?

Valdek · March 2018

It’s so great to continue reading about your progress and perseverance @Shantu. The way you respond to advice (especially the harsher comments) is so refreshingly positive. Keep being awesome

DoctorESO · March 2018

LiquidPony wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Mitoice wrote: »

I have question... i can do 25-30 k dps on a target dummy WITHOUT using the ultimate....

Are you talking about 40k WITH ultimate??

Yes, these are with ultimates. What's the point of parsing without ultis?

If you're just practising it's fine to just not use ulti's, saves having to build up to 500 ulti every time. Save that for when you want to show off the parse to your vet trial guild. I know my destro ulti will hit for ~3.5k DPS depending on my crit luck so I just add that on top.

Why would you build up 500 ulti?

Maybe for the overload ult? At one time, the max ult one could have was 1,000.

Runefang · March 2018

LiquidPony wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Mitoice wrote: »

I have question... i can do 25-30 k dps on a target dummy WITHOUT using the ultimate....

Are you talking about 40k WITH ultimate??

Yes, these are with ultimates. What's the point of parsing without ultis?

If you're just practising it's fine to just not use ulti's, saves having to build up to 500 ulti every time. Save that for when you want to show off the parse to your vet trial guild. I know my destro ulti will hit for ~3.5k DPS depending on my crit luck so I just add that on top.

Why would you build up 500 ulti?

I always thought ultis did more damage if you had more ulti..... don't tell me I've been wasting my time....

DoctorESO · March 2018

Runefang wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Mitoice wrote: »

I have question... i can do 25-30 k dps on a target dummy WITHOUT using the ultimate....

Are you talking about 40k WITH ultimate??

Yes, these are with ultimates. What's the point of parsing without ultis?

If you're just practising it's fine to just not use ulti's, saves having to build up to 500 ulti every time. Save that for when you want to show off the parse to your vet trial guild. I know my destro ulti will hit for ~3.5k DPS depending on my crit luck so I just add that on top.

Why would you build up 500 ulti?

I always thought ultis did more damage if you had more ulti..... don't tell me I've been wasting my time....

Hehehehehehe! I won't say anything.

jakeedmundson · March 2018

Runefang wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Mitoice wrote: »

I have question... i can do 25-30 k dps on a target dummy WITHOUT using the ultimate....

Are you talking about 40k WITH ultimate??

Yes, these are with ultimates. What's the point of parsing without ultis?

If you're just practising it's fine to just not use ulti's, saves having to build up to 500 ulti every time. Save that for when you want to show off the parse to your vet trial guild. I know my destro ulti will hit for ~3.5k DPS depending on my crit luck so I just add that on top.

Why would you build up 500 ulti?

I always thought ultis did more damage if you had more ulti..... don't tell me I've been wasting my time....

It does not do more damage... as soon as it is ready to go, it hits for the same damage numbers. Doesn't matter if you drop it with 200 ultimate or 500 ultimate.
The only reason they even show the numbers is because of overload ulti on sorc. We used to build it up to blast everything with overload light attacks with 1000 ultimate. (each OL light attack only use something like 40 ulti points? i don't remember) They dropped it to 500 max and killed that build though.

f047ys3v3n · March 2018

Shantu wrote: »

God I'm sick of hearing game demi-gods claiming this is easy. I can trash mobs at 40-60k, kick dolmens and public dungeons solo, do some Craglorn group content solo (yeah, yeah, I know some of you can do this blindfolded), so I've got a few skills, but put be in front of a 3 ml test dummy and I can stand there buffing, de-buffing, laying down DoT's, and blasting with everything I've got while maintaining my resources and can still only manage about 10-12k at most. After 1700+ hours and a couple of DPS toons at 700+ CP, gold gear and staff, decent rotation skills, animation canceling (though I'm not really great at it) and I still comparably suck. Put me a vet dungeon where I'm running around trying to stay alive and my suckage meter goes up even further. As a result, I don't even try vet and any HM content as I'm tired of guys getting pissed and kicking me. Honestly, I'm doing the very best I can, but apparently there's something I'm missing? I have no clue how anyone can get even 20k out of a test dummy let alone maintain that level in a dungeon and/or trial. Am I forever doomed to an ESO life of suckage?

So it sounds like from you later posts that you are now hitting more like 20k. That is not really all that far from what I do. I use one of the same gear sets Alcast talks about (julianos, infal, 1 kena) and very close cp allocation and such. I have tried the meta rotation and ended up leaving mercious on the back bar with twisting (casting and refreshing it each twisting cycle) and having the 8 second dots up front. The meta is just an unbelievable amount of bar swap and totally hits the wall if you run out of resources. The meta is unquestionably better but it is also very, very, difficult. Many have mentioned this as you are trying to time out swaps and casts for 8 second dots, a 13 second dot, a 5 light attack proc, the duration on mercilous for the recast, your siphoning buff timer, a 45 or so second pots cooldown, and all while monitoring resources for the potential need for a full heavy to slip in there at 2.2 seconds. Even on a test dummy it is a pretty superhuman thing to try to do. Doing it well with full raid mechanics to deal with would really be something.

Be all this as it may, I don't actually think that many of the parses people talk about are legitimate. When I look at my results in up-times and such in this or that test and do some quick back of the envelope calculations, 30k looks like about what perfection in a rotation would hit on one of these meta specked mNB's. Many have talked about the phantom magica, health, regen, spell damage, and even stam and resistances that some youtube videos seem to have where when you spec your toon out just like them your numbers are lower. I think much of this whole 40k plus on a dummy business is just that, a very good, almost perfect 30k rotation + some numbers altering in memory using cheat engine. No doubt their rotations are cleaner than mine. One of these guys had 95% up time on is DOTs and mercilous and 100% on his pots. That is amazing, I'm closer to 80% and his rotation looked amazing, so much cleaner than I can do. All that said, when I add up my errors in duration and such on my DOTs, I still don't get very close the the numbers he did. I see more like 30k flat, not the well over 40k he showed.

My advice to you is to keep practicing. Magblade is frankly hard no matter what set up you do as merciless is a *** to try to keep track of. You can certainly do all the trials on vet with what you will end up with if you have some talent and find a good group to roll with. As for the 40k+ dummy stuff and some hard modes on some content, I think you may have to, shall we say, look at other important parts of your build if you want to have a lot of success there. I have thought for some time that ZOS was inadvertently scaling their toughest content for the synthetically enhanced player. It is a by product of their decision to not deal with CE that folks who both use CE and have great skill will end up at the top. If you then scale stuff to be challenging to your top players (as opposed to challenging to an internal group of play testers as in times past) you will actually end up inadvertently requiring CE use.

Anyhow, best of luck. It sounds like you have made a lot of improvement and are solidly into trials capable dps numbers.