Pvpers, how is medium fortified brass with evade skill?

Aliyavana · February 2018

And would I need to stack impen with a set with this much resistance?

Sixty5 · February 2018

I've been playing around with it for a bit.

In CP pvp, I can't say I'd recommend it, still felt super squishy, despite having capped resists.

We shall see how it feels for no-CP battlegrounds, where resists are actually more valuable

You'd still want a chunk of Impen with it, just because crits still hurt.

I should also point out that much of my testing has been with me being pretty out of practice and on an iffy connection, so my results might not be typical of what the set actually is.

Aliyavana · February 2018

Sixty5 wrote: »

I've been playing around with it for a bit.

In CP pvp, I can't say I'd recommend it, still felt super squishy, despite having capped resists.

We shall see how it feels for no-CP battlegrounds, where resists are actually more valuable

You'd still want a chunk of Impen with it, just because crits still hurt.

I should also point out that much of my testing has been with me being pretty out of practice and on an iffy connection, so my results might not be typical of what the set actually is.

have you tried no cp cyrodil?

Aisle9 · February 2018

aliyavana wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

I've been playing around with it for a bit.

In CP pvp, I can't say I'd recommend it, still felt super squishy, despite having capped resists.

We shall see how it feels for no-CP battlegrounds, where resists are actually more valuable

You'd still want a chunk of Impen with it, just because crits still hurt.

I should also point out that much of my testing has been with me being pretty out of practice and on an iffy connection, so my results might not be typical of what the set actually is.

have you tried no cp cyrodil?

currently, in no-CP, if you go medium your best mitigation is rolling, so that kinda defeats the concept of having maxed out res.

It would probably be situational at best, imo.

Sixty5 · February 2018

Sixty5 wrote: »

I've been playing around with it for a bit.

In CP pvp, I can't say I'd recommend it, still felt super squishy, despite having capped resists.

We shall see how it feels for no-CP battlegrounds, where resists are actually more valuable

You'd still want a chunk of Impen with it, just because crits still hurt.

aliyavana wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

I've been playing around with it for a bit.

In CP pvp, I can't say I'd recommend it, still felt super squishy, despite having capped resists.

We shall see how it feels for no-CP battlegrounds, where resists are actually more valuable

You'd still want a chunk of Impen with it, just because crits still hurt.

I should also point out that much of my testing has been with me being pretty out of practice and on an iffy connection, so my results might not be typical of what the set actually is.

have you tried no cp cyrodil?

Not yet, mostly because I'm not a huge fan of large scale PvP, too much downtime, and PvWall bores me, plus you aren't going to be tanking zergs or busting them.

Might also be the fact that I'm comboing it with Unfathomable Darkness

fred4 · February 2018

I am using the set, in medium, on my Nord stam DK, and I like it a lot. Yes, I use Shuffle. I mostly play in CP campaigns. In general, I would agree that resistances are more useful in no CP, whereas a set like Impregnable is more useful in CP. However I spend a lot of time in IC, and crit resist won't protect you, if you get embroiled in a fight around the bosses there. Plain old tankiness gives you an advantage around those.

Chilly-McFreeze · February 2018

Imagine a standard medium armor build.

With Impreg, a few CP and impen traits you can reach 60%+ crit resist. Means you completely shut down crits with 1.6 modifier. So you gain the usual 17-20k resistance (26-30%, including buffs) + nullify many crits (but surely not all. NB and Temp have higher modifier through passives).
And you've got a few item traits and cp to freely choose bc you don't have to spend as much into Resistant. Could just as well use it for Reinforced on big pieces and for more mitigation through cp.

With brass, you gain 8.1k resistance, thats around 12,5% mitigation. Right? With full impen and 30 points into Resistant you are at 40% crit resist with around 38-42% base mitigation.

Now imagine a skill with 10k dmg, 7k penetration (10.6%) and a 1.7 crit dmg modifier.

On my impeg build with Reinforced big parts, 20 points into Resistant I have 30% mitigation, 63% crit resist. Substract the pen leavs 19,4% mitigation. Substract impen from crit dmg leaves you with a 1,07 modifier for crits.
A non crit hits for 8060. A crit hits for 8624.

Switching out Impreg for Brass. All impen. 30 points Resistant. Stats are 40% mitigation, 40% crit resist. Minus pen is 29,4% resist, calculated crit dmg modifier is 1.3.
Non crit hits for 7060. Crit hits for 9178.

So fred4 is absolutely right. In a place where you can't easily stack crit dmg done through cp you're better of with brass. But for CP I'd go with impreg all the way. Crits are the most common form of increased burst damage.

glavius · February 2018

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Imagine a standard medium armor build.

With Impreg, a few CP and impen traits you can reach 60%+ crit resist. Means you completely shut down crits with 1.6 modifier. So you gain the usual 17-20k resistance (26-30%, including buffs) + nullify many crits (but surely not all. NB and Temp have higher modifier through passives).
And you've got a few item traits and cp to freely choose bc you don't have to spend as much into Resistant. Could just as well use it for Reinforced on big pieces and for more mitigation through cp.

With brass, you gain 8.1k resistance, thats around 12,5% mitigation. Right? With full impen and 30 points into Resistant you are at 40% crit resist with around 38-42% base mitigation.

Now imagine a skill with 10k dmg, 7k penetration (10.6%) and a 1.7 crit dmg modifier.

On my impeg build with Reinforced big parts, 20 points into Resistant I have 30% mitigation, 63% crit resist. Substract the pen leavs 19,4% mitigation. Substract impen from crit dmg leaves you with a 1,07 modifier for crits.
A non crit hits for 8060. A crit hits for 8624.

Switching out Impreg for Brass. All impen. 30 points Resistant. Stats are 40% mitigation, 40% crit resist. Minus pen is 29,4% resist, calculated crit dmg modifier is 1.3.
Non crit hits for 7060. Crit hits for 9178.

So fred4 is absolutely right. In a place where you can't easily stack crit dmg done through cp you're better of with brass. But for CP I'd go with impreg all the way. Crits are the most common form of increased burst damage.

Your calculations pretty much showed brass mitigating more damage unless opponent has like 65%+ crit chance. Not sure why you say Impregnable is the better option

Sixty5 · February 2018

glavius wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Imagine a standard medium armor build.

With Impreg, a few CP and impen traits you can reach 60%+ crit resist. Means you completely shut down crits with 1.6 modifier. So you gain the usual 17-20k resistance (26-30%, including buffs) + nullify many crits (but surely not all. NB and Temp have higher modifier through passives).
And you've got a few item traits and cp to freely choose bc you don't have to spend as much into Resistant. Could just as well use it for Reinforced on big pieces and for more mitigation through cp.

With brass, you gain 8.1k resistance, thats around 12,5% mitigation. Right? With full impen and 30 points into Resistant you are at 40% crit resist with around 38-42% base mitigation.

Now imagine a skill with 10k dmg, 7k penetration (10.6%) and a 1.7 crit dmg modifier.

On my impeg build with Reinforced big parts, 20 points into Resistant I have 30% mitigation, 63% crit resist. Substract the pen leavs 19,4% mitigation. Substract impen from crit dmg leaves you with a 1,07 modifier for crits.
A non crit hits for 8060. A crit hits for 8624.

Switching out Impreg for Brass. All impen. 30 points Resistant. Stats are 40% mitigation, 40% crit resist. Minus pen is 29,4% resist, calculated crit dmg modifier is 1.3.
Non crit hits for 7060. Crit hits for 9178.

So fred4 is absolutely right. In a place where you can't easily stack crit dmg done through cp you're better of with brass. But for CP I'd go with impreg all the way. Crits are the most common form of increased burst damage.

Your calculations pretty much showed brass mitigating more damage unless opponent has like 65%+ crit chance. Not sure why you say Impregnable is the better option

Because big crit bursts are what kill you for the most part. Having a sub + dawnbreaker deal 4k less upfront damage is going to let you live a lot more than cutting a couple of hundred off of little light attacks

NoFlash · February 2018

Medium fortified brass all impen with shuffle is viable in CP PvP. In my experience, I normally have ~30-55% crit (depending on build) and with the amount of potatoes/zerglings in cyrodiil, I think that fortified brass is spot on for a defensive medium armor set. Pair it with blood spawn

fred4 · February 2018

EvoAZN wrote: »

Pair it with blood spawn.

I agree. Many people stack penetration. Armor is only effective once it exceeds that, and thus you only really feel it once it reaches the high teens and above. I think there is some sense in stacking mitigation, if you are going the mitigation route.

@Chilly-McFreeze, thanks. I had pegged Fortified Brass at 12.5% myself, however I did some tests with a duelling partner and Armor Master, which offers almost the exact same buff, marginally OUTPERFORMED Wizard's Riposte on my magicka NB. Riposte is supposed to grant a 15% damage reduction. Without going into the pros and cons between those two sets (of which there are many), all I can say is, if you really want to know: test, test, test. I agree with what's been said about Impregnable vs Brass, for example, because I have felt the difference in CP and no CP during actual gameplay.

As another example, consider Minor Berserk. Most people, perhaps, assume that this gives a flat 8% damage bonus, like the tooltip says. Oh, if it ever was that simple. In tests against a target skeleton, my NB gets a 5.7% damage boost with Concealed Weapon, and a 5.9% boost with Funnel Health.

Taylor_MB · February 2018

Shameless plug, but check this thread here. We have done much theory crafting with defensive sets in PvP and deep dived into the formulas behind the PvP damage calculations.

There is even a special section just for Impreg vs Brass (well, we used Armor Master to give flat resistances a slight edge) in our editable spreadsheet here.

Ragnaroek93 · February 2018

I think Brass on medium armor is one of the best sets which you can go for if you want to be tanky (another option which could be considered is armor master with 5p bonus only on the Shuffle bar).

Aliyavana · February 2018

Ok ty for the answers guys