Was the Storm Atronach Ninja nerfed ?

Feanor · January 2018

All I want to say is: The Atro is so bad I didn’t even bother leveling it when I started my new Sorc on NA.

Dracane · January 2018

I never understood why this trashy ult is immobile. Molag Kena has the exact same atronach and they can at least slowly move. Sorcerer Atronachs need to work the same way.

Apherius · January 2018

Atronach should be useful on PVP and in PVE.

Greater Storm Atronach: Summon a Greater Storm atronach at the Target location, The atronach's arrival deals X damage and stuns nearby allies for 3 secondes. The atronach cannot move but attacks the nearest ennemies for 15% more damage.

They should increase the damage and clarify how much it deal.

Summon Charged Atronach: Summon a Greater Storm atronach at the Target location, The atronach's arrival deals X damage and stuns nearby allies for 3 secondes. The atronach cannot move but attacks the nearest ennemies with targeted and area attacks.

They also need to clarify how much the atronach deal, but instead of this useless area effect attack, they should make it able to grab the ennemies with his channeled lightning attack ... or make us able to resummon it as much as we want during the duration of the ultimate ... or make it teleport to the ennemie we chosen thank to the command " Y+left click ".

Lord-Otto · January 2018

Dracane wrote: »

I never understood why this trashy ult is immobile. Molag Kena has the exact same atronach and they can at least slowly move. Sorcerer Atronachs need to work the same way.

"Molag Kena has the exact same Atronach..."

*Atronach lands on my head, I die*
*Atronach slows me to a halt, so Kena can kill me*
*Atronach stuns me, suicides and I explode*

Nooot quite, Dracane, not quite...
(^_^)'

Dracane · January 2018

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I never understood why this trashy ult is immobile. Molag Kena has the exact same atronach and they can at least slowly move. Sorcerer Atronachs need to work the same way.

"Molag Kena has the exact same Atronach..."

*Atronach lands on my head, I die*
*Atronach slows me to a halt, so Kena can kill me*
*Atronach stuns me, suicides and I explode*

Nooot quite, Dracane, not quite...
(^_^)'

You exaggerate. I'm only speaking about the movement part, not the rest.
Also, the Atronachs don't kill you when they arrive and they do not one shot you. They only bring you to 2% health when they catch you. You die from possible follow ups

Lord-Otto · January 2018

Dracane wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I never understood why this trashy ult is immobile. Molag Kena has the exact same atronach and they can at least slowly move. Sorcerer Atronachs need to work the same way.

"Molag Kena has the exact same Atronach..."

*Atronach lands on my head, I die*
*Atronach slows me to a halt, so Kena can kill me*
*Atronach stuns me, suicides and I explode*

Nooot quite, Dracane, not quite...
(^_^)'

You exaggerate. I'm only speaking about the movement part, not the rest.
Also, the Atronachs don't kill you when they arrive and they do not one shot you. They only bring you to 2% health when they catch you. You die from possible follow ups

They effectively do. Weather up there is shockingly terrible. I once brought an umbrella there, expecting rain. Never doing that again...
(>.>)

But I agree on the part sorc Atro should be somewhat mobile.
On the other hand, if it actually does outperform Meteor and destro ult in PvE now, Warhorn taken into account, I'm fine with that. Would leave Atro for PvE dps and Negate for PvP group fights. That's sufficient in my book.

Vahrokh · January 2018

Ahzek wrote: »

Ah so this is another case of the good old "lets nerf the somewhat decent morph to make the bad morph more attractive" ...

Crystal frags anyone?

Vahrokh · January 2018

Vaoh wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

I thought that as a Sorc I would finally get to use a class-based Ult in a trial -_- rip

Negate -> vAA.

Where in AA? Atm I can't remember ever seeing a single Negate Magic in trials except for Gargoyles in vHRC HM.

In 2014, it was a must have for the last boss in vAA and was appreciated both on 2nd vAA boss and "falling stars phase" on last vHRC boss.

Joy_Division · January 2018

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Since this skill is under adjustment on the PTS cycle, can you ask the folks on the combat team to look into the "Charged" morph. Losing 25% of the duration and thus all that damage is in no way comparable to a few modest AoE ticks.

SirMewser · January 2018

Before Morrowind, there was no pet command tied to heavy attacks.
The early state of the atronach was originally mobile (this lead to problems where acknowledgeable players would kite it away rendering it useless/wasted).
Knowing this, I think it's time to make him move now that even console players have a way to control him.

I also suggest to tie in the AoE attack of the Charged Storm Atronach into the Greater Storm Atronach morph as an active component for activating the ability again.

(Should it be a permanent double slotted summon isn't what I'll touch on if this were the case).

Replace the Charged Storm Atronach morph option with an air atronach so stam sorc have a stamina scaling option that will benefit from stamina based CP passives

(otherwise why even introducing this new scaling for him?).

On a side note, buff the Twilight Tormentor please...

Derra · January 2018

SirMewser wrote: »

On a side note, buff the Twilight Tormentor please...

I think the tormentor is relatively fine - it could use slight buffs but nothing too extreme. It can hit for 4k+ on pvp targets.

The problem for pvp is that pet abilities (scamp pulse) get CP and ability critdmg but the standard petattacks DO NOT.
If they were to finally adress pets not scaling with all your character stats it would be fine.

Alcast · January 2018

Derra wrote: »

SirMewser wrote: »

On a side note, buff the Twilight Tormentor please...

I think the tormentor is relatively fine - it could use slight buffs but nothing too extreme. It can hit for 4k+ on pvp targets.

The problem for pvp is that pet abilities (scamp pulse) get CP and ability critdmg but the standard petattacks DO NOT.
If they were to finally adress pets not scaling with all your character stats it would be fine.

Wrobels way:

Buff bugged stuff > fix the bugs > realize now its up > nerf it
instead of
Fix the bugs > realize oh its actually good > move on

Derra · January 2018

Alcast wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

SirMewser wrote: »

On a side note, buff the Twilight Tormentor please...

I think the tormentor is relatively fine - it could use slight buffs but nothing too extreme. It can hit for 4k+ on pvp targets.

The problem for pvp is that pet abilities (scamp pulse) get CP and ability critdmg but the standard petattacks DO NOT.
If they were to finally adress pets not scaling with all your character stats it would be fine.

Wrobels way:

Buff bugged stuff > fix the bugs > realize now its up > nerf it
instead of
Fix the bugs > realize oh its actually good > move on

sth sth about understand the game.

Dracane · January 2018

Derra wrote: »

SirMewser wrote: »

On a side note, buff the Twilight Tormentor please...

I think the tormentor is relatively fine - it could use slight buffs but nothing too extreme. It can hit for 4k+ on pvp targets.

The problem for pvp is that pet abilities (scamp pulse) get CP and ability critdmg but the standard petattacks DO NOT.
If they were to finally adress pets not scaling with all your character stats it would be fine.

Scaling with CP passives is what the Twilight needs. It's the only ability in the game that is not affected by CP and I don't understand why.

I don't think the Tormentor is good. Her ability is only usefull while above 50% health. I don't know what, but she needs something else. The twilight matriarch is always usefull.

Derra · January 2018

Dracane wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

SirMewser wrote: »

On a side note, buff the Twilight Tormentor please...

I think the tormentor is relatively fine - it could use slight buffs but nothing too extreme. It can hit for 4k+ on pvp targets.

The problem for pvp is that pet abilities (scamp pulse) get CP and ability critdmg but the standard petattacks DO NOT.
If they were to finally adress pets not scaling with all your character stats it would be fine.

Scaling with CP passives is what the Twilight needs. It's the only ability in the game that is not affected by CP and I don't understand why.

I don't think the Tormentor is good. Her ability is only usefull while above 50% health. I don't know what, but she needs something else. The twilight matriarch is always usefull.

I think critdmg is the most important stat pets are currently missing entirely.
I do like the tormentor as it hits noticeably harder than twilight - or rather i dislike twlight bc the heal gets stolen by some random player too often

Dracane · January 2018

Derra wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

SirMewser wrote: »

On a side note, buff the Twilight Tormentor please...

I think the tormentor is relatively fine - it could use slight buffs but nothing too extreme. It can hit for 4k+ on pvp targets.

The problem for pvp is that pet abilities (scamp pulse) get CP and ability critdmg but the standard petattacks DO NOT.
If they were to finally adress pets not scaling with all your character stats it would be fine.

Scaling with CP passives is what the Twilight needs. It's the only ability in the game that is not affected by CP and I don't understand why.

I don't think the Tormentor is good. Her ability is only usefull while above 50% health. I don't know what, but she needs something else. The twilight matriarch is always usefull.

I think critdmg is the most important stat pets are currently missing entirely.
I do like the tormentor as it hits noticeably harder than twilight - or rather i dislike twlight bc the heal gets stolen by some random player too often

Crit damage is a minor thing for me. She needs to scale with elemental expert and then either master at arms or thaumaturge, depening on what her damage is considered.

But yea, of course she should scale with all appropriate abilities, like any other ability. The familiars base attacks are the same. But they are so weak, that it doesn't matter really if they exist or not.

Erraln · January 2018

Dracane wrote: »

Totally not true, under no circumstances.
The best I was able to achieve, was an increase of 10-20%

Alright, so here's the numbers I've seen...

Performed with an Altmer Sorceror on Live and PTS, in two gearsets.
2 Ilambris 5 Julianos 3 Willpower (dead Nirnhoned lightning staff)
2 Ilambris 5 Necropotence 4 Master Architect (same staff, completing 4th slot now)

CP were set to this guide because it's the first result on Google for 'magsorc pve' and therefore a realistic combination to expect normal people to run.

Format is Condition: Noncrit _ Crit
No raid buffs, no additional sources of penetration, no Minor Vulnerability, Apprentice Mundus, this is as non-cheesed as I could reasonably make it. I did drink a spellpower potion for buffs during each test, as that's realistic for the game mode I care about (Trials).

Live:
	CP:
		Juli:
			No Prey:3351	5026
			Prey:	4691	7036
		Necro:
			No Prey:3445	5168
			Prey:	4823	7235
	NoCP:
		Juli:
			No Prey:3058	4587
			Prey:	4281	6421
		Necro:	
			No Prey:3133	4700
			Prey:	4386	6579
PTS:
	CP:
		Juli:
			No Prey:4197	7145
			Prey:	5875	10003
		Necro:
			No Prey:4196	7174
			Prey:	5874	10044
	NoCP:
		Juli:
			No Prey:2653	3980
			Prey:	3714	5572
		Necro:
			No Prey:2672	4008
			Prey:	3740	5611

So yes, the ultimate is now weaker without champion points. How much CP does it take to surpass the Live strength, though?

Less than 300. I set my Blue points to: 43 ele expert, 10 spell erosion, 16 Master at Arms, 31 Thaumaturge (100 total) with no rhyme or reason behind it whatsoever, except that it seems like the sort of bonuses someone might go after without thinking too much about it.

Resulting skill strength with Julianos gearing, with Daedric Prey: 5019, 7529. Live damage at CP cap in the same situation was 4691, 7036.

So, uh, yea. Necropotence gearing, 5874->10044 PTS vs 4823->7235 Live, even if you make the pessimistic assumption of 40% crit rate that still comes out to a 30% increase.

Totally true, under many circumstances, every Magsorc above 300cp can have a stronger Atro next patch. I'm sorry if you don't play modes that will let you use it, but many people do. And this is without almost all buffs imaginable. With synergy, with raid penetration, with Major Force, and so forth, I wouldn't be shocked to see 15k or higher crit ticks in raids. In fact I wonder if it can replace Ballista as the single-target ult for Stamsorc setups as well; it doesn't seem to scale with Precise Strikes CP or Khajiit passives, but Major and Minor Force will still both buff the Storm Atro's crit damage, as they buff all crit damage.

I'll add some screenshot links as I have time to upload them, tomorrow. Can you think of anything I missed?

Ninja nerf status: nope.

Feanor · January 2018

Erraln wrote: »
Dracane wrote: »

Totally not true, under no circumstances.
The best I was able to achieve, was an increase of 10-20%

Alright, so here's the numbers I've seen...

Performed with an Altmer Sorceror on Live and PTS, in two gearsets.
2 Ilambris 5 Julianos 3 Willpower (dead Nirnhoned lightning staff)
2 Ilambris 5 Necropotence 4 Master Architect (same staff, completing 4th slot now)

CP were set to this guide because it's the first result on Google for 'magsorc pve' and therefore a realistic combination to expect normal people to run.

Format is Condition: Noncrit _ Crit
No raid buffs, no additional sources of penetration, no Minor Vulnerability, Apprentice Mundus, this is as non-cheesed as I could reasonably make it. I did drink a spellpower potion for buffs during each test, as that's realistic for the game mode I care about (Trials).
Live:
	CP:
		Juli:
			No Prey:3351	5026
			Prey:	4691	7036
		Necro:
			No Prey:3445	5168
			Prey:	4823	7235
	NoCP:
		Juli:
			No Prey:3058	4587
			Prey:	4281	6421
		Necro:	
			No Prey:3133	4700
			Prey:	4386	6579
PTS:
	CP:
		Juli:
			No Prey:4197	7145
			Prey:	5875	10003
		Necro:
			No Prey:4196	7174
			Prey:	5874	10044
	NoCP:
		Juli:
			No Prey:2653	3980
			Prey:	3714	5572
		Necro:
			No Prey:2672	4008
			Prey:	3740	5611
So yes, the ultimate is now weaker without champion points. How much CP does it take to surpass the Live strength, though?

Less than 300. I set my Blue points to: 43 ele expert, 10 spell erosion, 16 Master at Arms, 31 Thaumaturge (100 total) with no rhyme or reason behind it whatsoever, except that it seems like the sort of bonuses someone might go after without thinking too much about it.

Resulting skill strength with Julianos gearing, with Daedric Prey: 5019, 7529. Live damage at CP cap in the same situation was 4691, 7036.

So, uh, yea. Necropotence gearing, 5874->10044 PTS vs 4823->7235 Live, even if you make the pessimistic assumption of 40% crit rate that still comes out to a 30% increase.

Totally true, under many circumstances, every Magsorc above 300cp can have a stronger Atro next patch. I'm sorry if you don't play modes that will let you use it, but many people do. And this is without almost all buffs imaginable. With synergy, with raid penetration, with Major Force, and so forth, I wouldn't be shocked to see 15k or higher crit ticks in raids. In fact I wonder if it can replace Ballista as the single-target ult for Stamsorc setups as well; it doesn't seem to scale with Precise Strikes CP or Khajiit passives, but Major and Minor Force will still both buff the Storm Atro's crit damage, as they buff all crit damage.

I'll add some screenshot links as I have time to upload them, tomorrow. Can you think of anything I missed?

Ninja nerf status: nope.

Interesting stuff. How many bosses you need an ultimate for and that remain stationary for a longer time are in the game though? I can only think of a few. And to me that’s the main drawback. 28 seconds are nice, but if 20 of them are outside range the damage is of no consequence.

Dracane · January 2018

Erraln wrote: »
Dracane wrote: »

Totally not true, under no circumstances.
The best I was able to achieve, was an increase of 10-20%

Alright, so here's the numbers I've seen...

Performed with an Altmer Sorceror on Live and PTS, in two gearsets.
2 Ilambris 5 Julianos 3 Willpower (dead Nirnhoned lightning staff)
2 Ilambris 5 Necropotence 4 Master Architect (same staff, completing 4th slot now)

CP were set to this guide because it's the first result on Google for 'magsorc pve' and therefore a realistic combination to expect normal people to run.

Format is Condition: Noncrit _ Crit
No raid buffs, no additional sources of penetration, no Minor Vulnerability, Apprentice Mundus, this is as non-cheesed as I could reasonably make it. I did drink a spellpower potion for buffs during each test, as that's realistic for the game mode I care about (Trials).
Live:
	CP:
		Juli:
			No Prey:3351	5026
			Prey:	4691	7036
		Necro:
			No Prey:3445	5168
			Prey:	4823	7235
	NoCP:
		Juli:
			No Prey:3058	4587
			Prey:	4281	6421
		Necro:	
			No Prey:3133	4700
			Prey:	4386	6579
PTS:
	CP:
		Juli:
			No Prey:4197	7145
			Prey:	5875	10003
		Necro:
			No Prey:4196	7174
			Prey:	5874	10044
	NoCP:
		Juli:
			No Prey:2653	3980
			Prey:	3714	5572
		Necro:
			No Prey:2672	4008
			Prey:	3740	5611
So yes, the ultimate is now weaker without champion points. How much CP does it take to surpass the Live strength, though?

Less than 300. I set my Blue points to: 43 ele expert, 10 spell erosion, 16 Master at Arms, 31 Thaumaturge (100 total) with no rhyme or reason behind it whatsoever, except that it seems like the sort of bonuses someone might go after without thinking too much about it.

Resulting skill strength with Julianos gearing, with Daedric Prey: 5019, 7529. Live damage at CP cap in the same situation was 4691, 7036.

So, uh, yea. Necropotence gearing, 5874->10044 PTS vs 4823->7235 Live, even if you make the pessimistic assumption of 40% crit rate that still comes out to a 30% increase.

Totally true, under many circumstances, every Magsorc above 300cp can have a stronger Atro next patch. I'm sorry if you don't play modes that will let you use it, but many people do. And this is without almost all buffs imaginable. With synergy, with raid penetration, with Major Force, and so forth, I wouldn't be shocked to see 15k or higher crit ticks in raids. In fact I wonder if it can replace Ballista as the single-target ult for Stamsorc setups as well; it doesn't seem to scale with Precise Strikes CP or Khajiit passives, but Major and Minor Force will still both buff the Storm Atro's crit damage, as they buff all crit damage.

I'll add some screenshot links as I have time to upload them, tomorrow. Can you think of anything I missed?

Ninja nerf status: nope.

Ninja nerf status: oh yes.
It has been nerfed and CP only make up for it. We have come to the conclusion, that the damage nerf might come from the way the Atronach scales now, rather than being an actually set up nerf. Which is more CP and stat friendly than before. But without them, significantly weaker than before and being even weaker, is the last thing the Atronach needs.

I do not play non CP, or at least rarely. So I could just ignore all of this and be happy about a slight buff.
However, non CP pvp is very popular and battle grounds are popular as well. So why destroy this ult even more for such a big part of the player base ? Obviously you think that's cool or fair, wrong.

Erraln · January 2018

Dracane wrote: »

Ninja nerf status: oh yes.
It has been nerfed and CP only make up for it. We have come to the conclusion, that the damage nerf might come from the way the Atronach scales now, rather than being an actually set up nerf. Which is more CP and stat friendly than before. But without them, significantly weaker than before and being even weaker, is the last thing the Atronach needs.

I do not play non CP, or at least rarely. So I could just ignore all of this and be happy about a slight buff.
However, non CP pvp is very popular and battle grounds are popular as well. So why destroy this ult even more for such a big part of the player base ? Obviously you think that's cool or fair, wrong.

I don't care whether it's fair or unfair, though I admit to not being upset about a performance drop in a game mode I don't play. Your thread is selling the idea that the skill is now weak and not worth using, that the patchnotes implying it could be better to pure specs than before were misinformation, and that isn't the case.

It IS stronger now, and not by a little. 30% buffs are the stuff new builds are made of.

Feanor · January 2018

@Dracane

I can only see three uses for the Atro in PvP if it stays stationary, regardless of damage:

1. Breach control
2. Tower defense
3. Mine camping Pet Sorc

Even the PvE morph of Elemental Rage does better in these areas. Again, if it has to be stationary, I want secondary effects for the casting Sorc - it’s not that Sorc has access to too many major or minor buffs and debuffs anyway.

Dracane · January 2018

Erraln wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Ninja nerf status: oh yes.
It has been nerfed and CP only make up for it. We have come to the conclusion, that the damage nerf might come from the way the Atronach scales now, rather than being an actually set up nerf. Which is more CP and stat friendly than before. But without them, significantly weaker than before and being even weaker, is the last thing the Atronach needs.

I do not play non CP, or at least rarely. So I could just ignore all of this and be happy about a slight buff.
However, non CP pvp is very popular and battle grounds are popular as well. So why destroy this ult even more for such a big part of the player base ? Obviously you think that's cool or fair, wrong.

I don't care whether it's fair or unfair, though I admit to not being upset about a performance drop in a game mode I don't play. Your thread is selling the idea that the skill is now weak and not worth using, that the patchnotes implying it could be better to pure specs than before were misinformation, and that isn't the case.

It IS stronger now, and not by a little. 30% buffs are the stuff new builds are made of.

Unlike you, I am not selfish here and see the bigger picture. If you are happy with a nerfed ability that is only better because you are optimized, then good for you. But I am not and appearently many others aren't either.

Even with these buffs for CP players, the Atronach remains as niche as it has always been. A damage buff changes nothing.
With the difference, that on top of that, it's now useless for half of the pvp modes. Thank you, for defending unrightful things you hero. Talos 2.0

pieratsos · January 2018

Erraln wrote: »

Ninja nerf status: nope.

There are currently two PVP campaigns without CP and any form of BGs is also without CP. That is literally more than half of this game's PVP. You clearly said that it was nerfed without CP. Thats the definition of ninja nerf. Not only they didnt say that in the patch notes, but they clearly said that it would be buffed cause it would scale with ur max stats. The patch notes are clearly misinformation.

Then people found that something is off, they said they will test it, it took them 2 days to do a 10 minute test, and then came back and instead of admitting what they did, they still tried to hide it and started pointing fingers on everyone telling them "dont test naked or low-geared".

We appreciate ur input and understand that the only thing u care is trials, but trials is not the only thing in this game and this change affects negatively a very big population of the game.

Erraln · January 2018

pieratsos wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

Ninja nerf status: nope.

There are currently two PVP campaigns without CP and any form of BGs is also without CP. That is literally more than half of this game's PVP. You clearly said that it was nerfed without CP. Thats the definition of ninja nerf. Not only they didnt say that in the patch notes, but they clearly said that it would be buffed cause it would scale with ur max stats. The patch notes are clearly misinformation.

Then people found that something is off, they said they will test it, it took them 2 days to do a 10 minute test, and then came back and instead of admitting what they did, they still tried to hide it and started pointing fingers on everyone telling them "dont test naked or low-geared".

We appreciate ur input and understand that the only thing u care is trials, but trials is not the only thing in this game and this change affects negatively a very big population of the game.

To be frank, raid builds have gotten adjusted, nerfed, and removed with regularity for the sake of Cyrodiil gameplay. Just look at the MDK threads. This time it's the other way around... Everyone would like a change to make the ability better in all game modes, but that is just not how this company rolls. They could have adjusted it so that its fully-buffed strength was only 5% above current Live values, making it a loss for anyone not in Vet Trials. That didn't happen, thankfully. It remains buffed in PvE, Shor, and Vivec for nearly everyone who plays the game regularly. 300CP isn't hard to get.

I suppose I should stop posting about it before Zeni decides it wasn't supposed to be improved for anyone, ever, huh?

xaraan · January 2018

pieratsos wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

Ninja nerf status: nope.

There are currently two PVP campaigns without CP and any form of BGs is also without CP. That is literally more than half of this game's PVP. You clearly said that it was nerfed without CP. Thats the definition of ninja nerf. Not only they didnt say that in the patch notes, but they clearly said that it would be buffed cause it would scale with ur max stats. The patch notes are clearly misinformation.

Then people found that something is off, they said they will test it, it took them 2 days to do a 10 minute test, and then came back and instead of admitting what they did, they still tried to hide it and started pointing fingers on everyone telling them "dont test naked or low-geared".

We appreciate ur input and understand that the only thing u care is trials, but trials is not the only thing in this game and this change affects negatively a very big population of the game.

I have to add that non-CP pvp isn't the only thing in the game either, in fact it's not even half the game. So in the end, the opening post of the thread was far more misleading. It's not weaker and even in the tests that he Eraln has posted here or that Alcast did online show it as the strongest single target ulti for sorcs now and that's not counting the synergy. There is nothing wrong with having different ultimate as long as they each have their use, even a poster above pointed out some pvp situations a stationary atro could be useful and even that ignored a few other instances and the synergy buff.

There might be some merit to the argument that even if you are sub 300 CP or in no CP it shouldn't be nerfed, but painting it with a big conspiracy ninja nerf brush will come off as misleading to most players.

Dracane · January 2018

xaraan wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

Ninja nerf status: nope.

There are currently two PVP campaigns without CP and any form of BGs is also without CP. That is literally more than half of this game's PVP. You clearly said that it was nerfed without CP. Thats the definition of ninja nerf. Not only they didnt say that in the patch notes, but they clearly said that it would be buffed cause it would scale with ur max stats. The patch notes are clearly misinformation.

Then people found that something is off, they said they will test it, it took them 2 days to do a 10 minute test, and then came back and instead of admitting what they did, they still tried to hide it and started pointing fingers on everyone telling them "dont test naked or low-geared".

We appreciate ur input and understand that the only thing u care is trials, but trials is not the only thing in this game and this change affects negatively a very big population of the game.

I have to add that non-CP pvp isn't the only thing in the game either, in fact it's not even half the game. So in the end, the opening post of the thread was far more misleading. It's not weaker and even in the tests that he Eraln has posted here or that Alcast did online show it as the strongest single target ulti for sorcs now and that's not counting the synergy. There is nothing wrong with having different ultimate as long as they each have their use, even a poster above pointed out some pvp situations a stationary atro could be useful and even that ignored a few other instances and the synergy buff.

There might be some merit to the argument that even if you are sub 300 CP or in no CP it shouldn't be nerfed, but painting it with a big conspiracy ninja nerf brush will come off as misleading to most players.

I don't want to repeat myself over and over. If you don't play no cp, okay. Still you can't just ignore, that a nerf is at hand, thus the title is far from being misleading.

xaraan · January 2018

Dracane wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

Ninja nerf status: nope.

There are currently two PVP campaigns without CP and any form of BGs is also without CP. That is literally more than half of this game's PVP. You clearly said that it was nerfed without CP. Thats the definition of ninja nerf. Not only they didnt say that in the patch notes, but they clearly said that it would be buffed cause it would scale with ur max stats. The patch notes are clearly misinformation.

Then people found that something is off, they said they will test it, it took them 2 days to do a 10 minute test, and then came back and instead of admitting what they did, they still tried to hide it and started pointing fingers on everyone telling them "dont test naked or low-geared".

We appreciate ur input and understand that the only thing u care is trials, but trials is not the only thing in this game and this change affects negatively a very big population of the game.

I have to add that non-CP pvp isn't the only thing in the game either, in fact it's not even half the game. So in the end, the opening post of the thread was far more misleading. It's not weaker and even in the tests that he Eraln has posted here or that Alcast did online show it as the strongest single target ulti for sorcs now and that's not counting the synergy. There is nothing wrong with having different ultimate as long as they each have their use, even a poster above pointed out some pvp situations a stationary atro could be useful and even that ignored a few other instances and the synergy buff.

There might be some merit to the argument that even if you are sub 300 CP or in no CP it shouldn't be nerfed, but painting it with a big conspiracy ninja nerf brush will come off as misleading to most players.

I don't want to repeat myself over and over. If you don't play no cp, okay. Still you can't just ignore, that a nerf is at hand, thus the title is far from being misleading.

I guess we are nitpicking here, but I have done non cp many a time. Unlike a lot of posters I see all over the forums I play every part of this game, PvP, PvE, trials/dungeons, battlegrounds and I even like decorating houses. So I respect that you care about non-CP, but my nitpick is that it's not "far" from misleading. My opinion is that it was a bit and I can see why some take issue with it.

Most that see the title are going to think it applies to a variety of game scenarios, not a very limited version of the game. But I don't fight against your concept that is shouldn't be weaker in those scenarios.

Dracane · January 2018

xaraan wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

Ninja nerf status: nope.

There are currently two PVP campaigns without CP and any form of BGs is also without CP. That is literally more than half of this game's PVP. You clearly said that it was nerfed without CP. Thats the definition of ninja nerf. Not only they didnt say that in the patch notes, but they clearly said that it would be buffed cause it would scale with ur max stats. The patch notes are clearly misinformation.

Then people found that something is off, they said they will test it, it took them 2 days to do a 10 minute test, and then came back and instead of admitting what they did, they still tried to hide it and started pointing fingers on everyone telling them "dont test naked or low-geared".

We appreciate ur input and understand that the only thing u care is trials, but trials is not the only thing in this game and this change affects negatively a very big population of the game.

I have to add that non-CP pvp isn't the only thing in the game either, in fact it's not even half the game. So in the end, the opening post of the thread was far more misleading. It's not weaker and even in the tests that he Eraln has posted here or that Alcast did online show it as the strongest single target ulti for sorcs now and that's not counting the synergy. There is nothing wrong with having different ultimate as long as they each have their use, even a poster above pointed out some pvp situations a stationary atro could be useful and even that ignored a few other instances and the synergy buff.

There might be some merit to the argument that even if you are sub 300 CP or in no CP it shouldn't be nerfed, but painting it with a big conspiracy ninja nerf brush will come off as misleading to most players.

I don't want to repeat myself over and over. If you don't play no cp, okay. Still you can't just ignore, that a nerf is at hand, thus the title is far from being misleading.

I guess we are nitpicking here, but I have done non cp many a time. Unlike a lot of posters I see all over the forums I play every part of this game, PvP, PvE, trials/dungeons, battlegrounds and I even like decorating houses. So I respect that you care about non-CP, but my nitpick is that it's not "far" from misleading. My opinion is that it was a bit and I can see why some take issue with it.

Most that see the title are going to think it applies to a variety of game scenarios, not a very limited version of the game. But I don't fight against your concept that is shouldn't be weaker in those scenarios.

It may be misleading when you only read the title. But just as much as you shouldn't judge a book by its title, you shouldn't judge a thread. We have spend the first few pages gathering informations and such. So if people read it, they will know what it's about.

When I first made this post, I only had the informations that I had gathered on my own and back then, we didn't have ZoS statement as of how the Atronach actually scales. I just didn't care to edit the title afterwards, because it seems fake to me if I did.

pieratsos · January 2018

Erraln wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

Ninja nerf status: nope.

There are currently two PVP campaigns without CP and any form of BGs is also without CP. That is literally more than half of this game's PVP. You clearly said that it was nerfed without CP. Thats the definition of ninja nerf. Not only they didnt say that in the patch notes, but they clearly said that it would be buffed cause it would scale with ur max stats. The patch notes are clearly misinformation.

Then people found that something is off, they said they will test it, it took them 2 days to do a 10 minute test, and then came back and instead of admitting what they did, they still tried to hide it and started pointing fingers on everyone telling them "dont test naked or low-geared".

We appreciate ur input and understand that the only thing u care is trials, but trials is not the only thing in this game and this change affects negatively a very big population of the game.

To be frank, raid builds have gotten adjusted, nerfed, and removed with regularity for the sake of Cyrodiil gameplay. Just look at the MDK threads. This time it's the other way around... Everyone would like a change to make the ability better in all game modes, but that is just not how this company rolls. They could have adjusted it so that its fully-buffed strength was only 5% above current Live values, making it a loss for anyone not in Vet Trials. That didn't happen, thankfully. It remains buffed in PvE, Shor, and Vivec for nearly everyone who plays the game regularly. 300CP isn't hard to get.

I suppose I should stop posting about it before Zeni decides it wasn't supposed to be improved for anyone, ever, huh?

You are talking about a stationary ult that can get CCed, die and its single target. Its worse than the bear ult. I highly doubt that its going to be used in PVE anw. And unlike most people, i dont have an issue with PVE or PVP getting nerfed because of balance changes. Unfortunately they dont want to seperate them and i understand that certain changes will inevitably affect negatively some part of the game for the sake of balance. Repentance got nerfed because of PVE to keep sustain in check and it affected PVP too. I understand that. Tava tanks got nerfed in PVE to keep PVP balanced. I understand that.

But this change here isnt for the sake of balance. They just flatout nerfed the ult in no CP for absolutely no reason and they said that it was buffed in the patch notes. Seriously why couldnt they simply just buff the damn dmg dmg a bit. What is the point of making the damn thing scale like that, if you are going to have to nerf the ability just so it wont be OP. Yes people were asking for pets to scale better. But they could just literally say, "you know we want to make the ability scale, but we simply cant cause the dmg portion it will get from CP would make the ability way too OP and we would have to nerf the base dmg". People would flat out say no to that cause they are tired of getting nerfed because of CP every single patch. And they would give them 100 different ideas to buff the ability and make it useful in both PVE and PVP.

pieratsos · January 2018

xaraan wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

Ninja nerf status: nope.

There are currently two PVP campaigns without CP and any form of BGs is also without CP. That is literally more than half of this game's PVP. You clearly said that it was nerfed without CP. Thats the definition of ninja nerf. Not only they didnt say that in the patch notes, but they clearly said that it would be buffed cause it would scale with ur max stats. The patch notes are clearly misinformation.

Then people found that something is off, they said they will test it, it took them 2 days to do a 10 minute test, and then came back and instead of admitting what they did, they still tried to hide it and started pointing fingers on everyone telling them "dont test naked or low-geared".

We appreciate ur input and understand that the only thing u care is trials, but trials is not the only thing in this game and this change affects negatively a very big population of the game.

I have to add that non-CP pvp isn't the only thing in the game either, in fact it's not even half the game. So in the end, the opening post of the thread was far more misleading. It's not weaker and even in the tests that he Eraln has posted here or that Alcast did online show it as the strongest single target ulti for sorcs now and that's not counting the synergy. There is nothing wrong with having different ultimate as long as they each have their use, even a poster above pointed out some pvp situations a stationary atro could be useful and even that ignored a few other instances and the synergy buff.

There might be some merit to the argument that even if you are sub 300 CP or in no CP it shouldn't be nerfed, but painting it with a big conspiracy ninja nerf brush will come off as misleading to most players.

No CP PVP is more than half of this game's PVP. BGs, which is supposed to be the competitive PVP and the only form of PVP in the game that they actually care to improve every patch is literally no CP. The second most popular campaign in cyrodiil is no CP. There is nothing misleading about the title. The only misleading thing is the patch notes which clearly stated that it was supposed to buffed for everyone except hybrids. Not only that, they "tested" it, and came back and still avoided to answer about the ability getting a base dmg nerf.