Epicasballs wrote: »Wardens are beast in PvP. If they buffed them for PvE it would break PvP. ZOS refuses to separate PvE and PvP from one another so this is just how it is. Trying to balance both together is a cute idea but it's never worked for any other MMO and it's not working for this one either.
MLGProPlayer wrote: »This is a class we paid real money for, and ZOS couldn't care less about their performance.
MLGProPlayer wrote: »This is a class we paid real money for, and ZOS couldn't care less about their performance.
Do you really wanna go down that P2W road?
If not, it's a very weak argument.
Stamdens are the mirror-image of stamDKs - top-dog PvP, bottom of the barrel PvE.
And I'm your mirror-image too, as I main a stamDK in PvP.
I guess we'll have to weather the patches
MLGProPlayer wrote: »Epicasballs wrote: »Wardens are beast in PvP. If they buffed them for PvE it would break PvP. ZOS refuses to separate PvE and PvP from one another so this is just how it is. Trying to balance both together is a cute idea but it's never worked for any other MMO and it's not working for this one either.
Increase damage of bird + make it dodgeable, increase dot damage, and make bear single bar.
Done.
Epicasballs wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Epicasballs wrote: »Wardens are beast in PvP. If they buffed them for PvE it would break PvP. ZOS refuses to separate PvE and PvP from one another so this is just how it is. Trying to balance both together is a cute idea but it's never worked for any other MMO and it's not working for this one either.
Increase damage of bird + make it dodgeable, increase dot damage, and make bear single bar.
Done.
All pets are double bar'd and Wardens should not be the exception. Increasing a wardens sustained pressure while they keep their giant burst combos is a terrible idea. Try harder. Wardens have massive burst, easy access to heals and overloaded buffs. Nerfing their heals in PvP hurts them in PvE as healers for those rare few that do heal as a Warden. Increasing their damage would help them in PvE but make them OP in PvP. Nerfing their buffs for PvP would hurt them as Tanks in PvE. It's not a simple thing to balance both halves and unless ZOS separates the two one side is always going to have it better than the other.
Epicasballs wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Epicasballs wrote: »Wardens are beast in PvP. If they buffed them for PvE it would break PvP. ZOS refuses to separate PvE and PvP from one another so this is just how it is. Trying to balance both together is a cute idea but it's never worked for any other MMO and it's not working for this one either.
Increase damage of bird + make it dodgeable, increase dot damage, and make bear single bar.
Done.
All pets are double bar'd and Wardens should not be the exception. Increasing a wardens sustained pressure while they keep their giant burst combos is a terrible idea. Try harder. Wardens have massive burst, easy access to heals and overloaded buffs. Nerfing their heals in PvP hurts them in PvE as healers for those rare few that do heal as a Warden. Increasing their damage would help them in PvE but make them OP in PvP. Nerfing their buffs for PvP would hurt them as Tanks in PvE. It's not a simple thing to balance both halves and unless ZOS separates the two one side is always going to have it better than the other.
Epicasballs wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Epicasballs wrote: »Wardens are beast in PvP. If they buffed them for PvE it would break PvP. ZOS refuses to separate PvE and PvP from one another so this is just how it is. Trying to balance both together is a cute idea but it's never worked for any other MMO and it's not working for this one either.
Increase damage of bird + make it dodgeable, increase dot damage, and make bear single bar.
Done.
All pets are double bar'd and Wardens should not be the exception. Increasing a wardens sustained pressure while they keep their giant burst combos is a terrible idea. Try harder. Wardens have massive burst, easy access to heals and overloaded buffs. Nerfing their heals in PvP hurts them in PvE as healers for those rare few that do heal as a Warden. Increasing their damage would help them in PvE but make them OP in PvP. Nerfing their buffs for PvP would hurt them as Tanks in PvE. It's not a simple thing to balance both halves and unless ZOS separates the two one side is always going to have it better than the other.
Then how would you buff pve warden while not breaking pvp warden?
Epicasballs wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Epicasballs wrote: »Wardens are beast in PvP. If they buffed them for PvE it would break PvP. ZOS refuses to separate PvE and PvP from one another so this is just how it is. Trying to balance both together is a cute idea but it's never worked for any other MMO and it's not working for this one either.
Increase damage of bird + make it dodgeable, increase dot damage, and make bear single bar.
Done.
All pets are double bar'd and Wardens should not be the exception. Increasing a wardens sustained pressure while they keep their giant burst combos is a terrible idea. Try harder. Wardens have massive burst, easy access to heals and overloaded buffs. Nerfing their heals in PvP hurts them in PvE as healers for those rare few that do heal as a Warden. Increasing their damage would help them in PvE but make them OP in PvP. Nerfing their buffs for PvP would hurt them as Tanks in PvE. It's not a simple thing to balance both halves and unless ZOS separates the two one side is always going to have it better than the other.
I still think that one thing that might have helped this is not turning Ice Staff into a tanking weapon. Give it some offense and the cold bonus Wardens get could be used to make it useful as a DPS weapon.
They could have added passives into Undaunted to allow a tank player to optionally take them to turn this (or any staff or whatever combination) into tanking gear (and maybe give up the offensive bonuses).
QuebraRegra wrote: »Epicasballs wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Epicasballs wrote: »Wardens are beast in PvP. If they buffed them for PvE it would break PvP. ZOS refuses to separate PvE and PvP from one another so this is just how it is. Trying to balance both together is a cute idea but it's never worked for any other MMO and it's not working for this one either.
Increase damage of bird + make it dodgeable, increase dot damage, and make bear single bar.
Done.
All pets are double bar'd and Wardens should not be the exception. Increasing a wardens sustained pressure while they keep their giant burst combos is a terrible idea. Try harder. Wardens have massive burst, easy access to heals and overloaded buffs. Nerfing their heals in PvP hurts them in PvE as healers for those rare few that do heal as a Warden. Increasing their damage would help them in PvE but make them OP in PvP. Nerfing their buffs for PvP would hurt them as Tanks in PvE. It's not a simple thing to balance both halves and unless ZOS separates the two one side is always going to have it better than the other.
Not exactly true... the NB SHADE can be summoned single bar and stays for the duration even on a bar switch. Necro set provides the buff no matter the bar, as long as the shade is present. I feel like it's time to mke all pets single bar for some bar diversity.
Epicasballs wrote: »Epicasballs wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Epicasballs wrote: »Wardens are beast in PvP. If they buffed them for PvE it would break PvP. ZOS refuses to separate PvE and PvP from one another so this is just how it is. Trying to balance both together is a cute idea but it's never worked for any other MMO and it's not working for this one either.
Increase damage of bird + make it dodgeable, increase dot damage, and make bear single bar.
Done.
All pets are double bar'd and Wardens should not be the exception. Increasing a wardens sustained pressure while they keep their giant burst combos is a terrible idea. Try harder. Wardens have massive burst, easy access to heals and overloaded buffs. Nerfing their heals in PvP hurts them in PvE as healers for those rare few that do heal as a Warden. Increasing their damage would help them in PvE but make them OP in PvP. Nerfing their buffs for PvP would hurt them as Tanks in PvE. It's not a simple thing to balance both halves and unless ZOS separates the two one side is always going to have it better than the other.
Then how would you buff pve warden while not breaking pvp warden?
Start off by separating the two. Total rework of CP.
If this were my Game I would scrap the current CP system and instead move toward a class specific CP system and a Weapon/Armor skill line specific CP system. Have the CP function differently for both PvE and PvP. For class skills you spend CP to augment skills you use to be more powerful, deal more damage, affect more targets, heal for more etc for PvE and have weapon/armor skill CP do something similar. Have CP define the sort of playstyle with your class and weapon/armor selection that you prefer. PvP CP selections would augment skills to have more utility like adding buffs and debuffs to skill when used and increase the affects of buffs and debuffs.
I would also have any weapon scale with your max stats(pen/crit/dmg) and restore resources for heavy attacks based on which stat pool is highest. DW mag set ups could use DW as effectively as stam.
CP as it is now is terrible and generic... it should be used to personalize a playstyle and not used to make up for what your build lacks.
Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Warden remains in that spot where it's just not viable to change anything without making it hilariously broken in PVP.
It is what it is.
MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Warden remains in that spot where it's just not viable to change anything without making it hilariously broken in PVP.
It is what it is.
Nonsense. The only reason warden is considered OP by some in PvP is the undodgeable cliff racer. Make that ability dodgeable, and you can balance the warden however you like. It's not a hard problem to solve.
arkansas_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Warden remains in that spot where it's just not viable to change anything without making it hilariously broken in PVP.
It is what it is.
Nonsense. The only reason warden is considered OP by some in PvP is the undodgeable cliff racer. Make that ability dodgeable, and you can balance the warden however you like. It's not a hard problem to solve.
Not really. The meta PVP Warden build is a stam Warden that runs Dizzying Swing for it's spammable over Cutting Dive, because Dizzying stuns and does more damage. The thing that makes Warden strong is it's passives and that it gets an AOE burst skill (Subterranean Assault) that they can combo with world and weapon skills: an AOE burst ulti (Dawnbreaker), and an AOE execute that restores ulti (Reverse Slice with Asylum 2H.)
(It also gets an anti-ranged shield that gives one of the strongest buffs in the game that they can keep up indefinitely because the shield also restores the resource that it cost to cast it, but that's besides the point)