Magicka warden is still the worst PvE class in the game

pieratsos

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Warden remains in that spot where it's just not viable to change anything without making it hilariously broken in PVP.

It is what it is.

Nonsense. The only reason warden is considered OP by some in PvP is the undodgeable cliff racer. Make that ability dodgeable, and you can balance the warden however you like. It's not a hard problem to solve.

Not really. The meta PVP Warden build is a stam Warden that runs Dizzying Swing for it's spammable over Cutting Dive, because Dizzying stuns and does more damage. The thing that makes Warden strong is it's passives and that it gets an AOE burst skill (Subterranean Assault) that they can combo with world and weapon skills: an AOE burst ulti (Dawnbreaker), and an AOE execute that restores ulti (Reverse Slice with Asylum 2H.)

(It also gets an anti-ranged shield that gives one of the strongest buffs in the game that they can keep up indefinitely because the shield also restores the resource that it cost to cast it, but that's besides the point)

That's stamina warden. We're talking about magicka warden in this thread. They have separate morphs.

Even with magicka wardens the issues go well beyond undodgeable birds and unblockable fissures that also ignore terrain. Those may be the biggest issues but they dont end there.

Wardens basically have all the advantages of the other 4 classes and since the other 4 classes sort of complement each other, wardens ended up OP with almost no weaknesses. For example they have the burst of a sorc but instead of lacking sustained dmg like sorcs to compensate for that massive burst, they actually have the sustained dmg of a mDK, a class that was designed for massive sustained dmg to compensate for its lack of burst. It just makes no sense why they designed wardens like that.

The class just feels horribly designed with no identity like the other classes. The only thing you can say about wardens is that they are damn good as a support class but aside from that it lacks any actual identity which is most likely why no one can agree as to what they were designed for. You can see a distinct design for all classes except for wardens. Whether that is PVP or PVE.

Sabbathius

SodanTok wrote: »

They have been nerfing and buffing left and right around both pve and pvp for past 4 years and even if you disagree with some stuff they did... they did them. They do things.They never sit and not to do things because they are 'afraid' lol...

I would argue that just because ZOS isn't doing anything, that doesn't mean the class is "fine".

For example, in a vet trial, how often do you see DKs healing? In the same vet trials, how often do you see Sorcs and Nightblades main tanking? If ZOS knows what they're doing, and these classes are "fine", then they should perform in those roles quite well, and competitive, no? So how come some class roles are just completely broken? I mean, just as an example, a competitive DK healer hasn't been a thing for how long? Years, right? For reasons like Cauterize doesn't self-heal, as far as I know. And when was the last time skills like Cauterize and Obsidian Shard were even touched? And what passives help a DK to be a group healer? Could it be...none? And could that be because DK passives haven't been touched (except to nerf them) since before Imperial City patch?

See what I mean? Just because ZOS doesn't do anything, it doesn't mean the situation is "fine". Just because ZOS ignores MagWardens, does not mean MagWardens are "fine". Don't get me wrong, they might be, I mostly play Stamina. But your assumptions are flawed because there's plenty of examples of classes in roles where they are so subpar that they border on unplayable, and have been ignored by ZOS for years.

bitels

Problem is that warden is jack of all trades. Which makes it really strong in PvP, with access to most important buffs and debuffs, nice burst, heals, substain and easy to pull off combos. But it isnt what PvE end-game is about, where everyone wants specialised builds that will fit into specialised roles.
Warden imho is best example why blancing PvE and PvP at the same time just dont work.

SodanTok

Sabbathius wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

They have been nerfing and buffing left and right around both pve and pvp for past 4 years and even if you disagree with some stuff they did... they did them. They do things.They never sit and not to do things because they are 'afraid' lol...

I would argue that just because ZOS isn't doing anything, that doesn't mean the class is "fine".

For example, in a vet trial, how often do you see DKs healing? In the same vet trials, how often do you see Sorcs and Nightblades main tanking? If ZOS knows what they're doing, and these classes are "fine", then they should perform in those roles quite well, and competitive, no? So how come some class roles are just completely broken? I mean, just as an example, a competitive DK healer hasn't been a thing for how long? Years, right? For reasons like Cauterize doesn't self-heal, as far as I know. And when was the last time skills like Cauterize and Obsidian Shard were even touched? And what passives help a DK to be a group healer? Could it be...none? And could that be because DK passives haven't been touched (except to nerf them) since before Imperial City patch?

See what I mean? Just because ZOS doesn't do anything, it doesn't mean the situation is "fine". Just because ZOS ignores MagWardens, does not mean MagWardens are "fine". Don't get me wrong, they might be, I mostly play Stamina. But your assumptions are flawed because there's plenty of examples of classes in roles where they are so subpar that they border on unplayable, and have been ignored by ZOS for years.

You are still mistaking absence of something in competitive endgame is viable concern for them. Can you pick magwarden DD, and do vet trials with it? Yes. Therefore they are fine. This is the selling point for them. Warden operates fine for 99% of playerbase. That means it is far from priority for them to do something drastic about it.

DKs werent designed to be healers, so again, their viability at endgame as healers is not of concern to them. Dont confuse this with saying they do not deserve changes, it simply is not priority.

They barely touch anything that operates 'just fine'. They havent rebalanced races in very long time, because they are all fine doing anything. Half the skill morphs in the game have barely any use, but the combat is just fine with the morphs people use. So they again touch skills only slowly. They dont touch bad sets at all and introduce plenty of more, because the game is just fine with the few meta sets everyone uses.

Izaki

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

There are ways to buff them for PvE without making them more OP in PvP, even without applying different tooltips for both parts (like they somehow did with Negate).

E.g. If they make birds deal a bit lesser dmg on impact but giving them a nice DoT to make up for that, maybe even exeding the current tooltip if you sum both damages up. This would soften the issue of bird spamming in PvP and give them a bit better DPS in PvE.

This is neither an optimal suggestion nor is it well thought through. It's just an example of how things could be balanced.

Like literally the easiest solution to nerf the bird spamming is to increase the projectile speed (by a lot) and make the projectile dodgeable. A nerf in PvP that doesn't affect PvE in the slightest. And the buffs in PvE could be as simple as making Winter's Revenge stronger (like Liquid Lightning level of strong).

MLGProPlayer

SodanTok wrote: »

Warden was supposed to be support class.

Stop making stuff up.

They have a DPS skill line, a tanking skill line, and a healing skill line. They were designed to fill every role, like every other class in the game.

Thats one thing. Second thing is why is not anything happening? Because they are fine. Wardens are fine.

Most trial leader boards don't feature a single warden in the top-100. They are the most underrepresented class in competitive end game content. They're the opposite of fine in PvE, unless you consider "fine" being not used in end game content.

Wardens don't even come close to hitting acceptable end game DPS numbers. Even with DPS being the easiest role to get a spot with on an end game roster (because there are so many spots), they don't see much action there because they're the only class that can't reach basic cutoff numbers. They also aren't good enough tanks and healers to displace DKs and templars in those roles, so they don't get picked there either.

Nolic1

I have to agree with @Sodan Tok on this if Warden was as broken as many are saying they would of done some changes by now it has been almost 1 year sense there release and if they are waiting on the next chapter to fix this class along with the MagDK cause of data collecting then I can say ok. But they have some how managed to fix in the mean time the Mag NB, Stam NB, Stam Sorc, Mag sorc pet and none pet, Templar both stam and mag and they are not perfect still. To many are after the competitive side of things and not looking at the can in get the end game done.

To many look at the end game as a numbers game instead of looking at can it be done with this instead of this. Now do not get me wrong I like a good score just like some others but I play meta for that if I just want to play I will take anything that can get the job done and run a trial. Some times its easier to get groups running when you take those that know there build and the end game mechanics over trying to put together a meta group.

As for the whole look at the leader boards I did for about 3 months and you know what the same people are always on them and most of the time in the same spots they always are. You will never see none meta groups on there when there pushed off the boards by the same people every time cause of the end game being ran like its all about some great reward for doing it at record speeds.

SodanTok

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Warden was supposed to be support class.

Stop making stuff up.

They have a DPS skill line, a tanking skill line, and a healing skill line. They were designed to fill every role, like every other class in the game.

Thats one thing. Second thing is why is not anything happening? Because they are fine. Wardens are fine.

Most trial leader boards don't feature a single warden in the top-100. They are the most underrepresented class in competitive end game content. They're the opposite of fine in PvE, unless you consider "fine" being not used in end game content.

Wardens don't even come close to hitting acceptable end game DPS numbers. Even with DPS being the easiest role to get a spot with on an end game roster (because there are so many spots), they don't see much action there because they're the only class that can't reach basic cutoff numbers. They also aren't good enough tanks and healers to displace DKs and templars in those roles, so they don't get picked there either.

I am not making stuff lol. The whole premise of warden was to support allies. Check any interview or eso live about wardens

And also stop replying to comment you don't bother to read at all. Your argument literally stands on not reading single word of wrote, because YES, being viable for ANY CONTENT IN THE GAME ON ANY ROLE IS FINE. Not being top100 raids or smth has like nothing to do with being fine. It has never been priority of ZoS to create diversity at the end end game.

Cant fault ZOS for not buffing warden if every PTS you create thread and complain about top100 leaderboards and how bear is not single bared. Start making better excuses for buffing, than stuff that is not important.

Wardens as DD do not operate as ZoS promised to. They dont offer any support in offensive role. There. This is good enough reason to change them. Not leaderboards for 0.1% of playerbase. Not DPS on dummy.

zaria

Epicasballs wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Epicasballs wrote: »

Wardens are beast in PvP. If they buffed them for PvE it would break PvP. ZOS refuses to separate PvE and PvP from one another so this is just how it is. Trying to balance both together is a cute idea but it's never worked for any other MMO and it's not working for this one either.

Increase damage of bird + make it dodgeable, increase dot damage, and make bear single bar.

Done.

All pets are double bar'd and Wardens should not be the exception. Increasing a wardens sustained pressure while they keep their giant burst combos is a terrible idea. Try harder. Wardens have massive burst, easy access to heals and overloaded buffs. Nerfing their heals in PvP hurts them in PvE as healers for those rare few that do heal as a Warden. Increasing their damage would help them in PvE but make them OP in PvP. Nerfing their buffs for PvP would hurt them as Tanks in PvE. It's not a simple thing to balance both halves and unless ZOS separates the two one side is always going to have it better than the other.

Buffing swarm, perhaps making it an ground DoT, now it require an target.
making bird dodgeable, perhaps some buff to compensate.
Making Scorch and ground effect like wall of element keep the delay burst perhaps add an DoT.
This will be an PvE buff and an PvP nerf.

crobarXIII

Faulgor wrote: »

VilniusNastavnik wrote: »

You have the majority of people who want their magdens to be l33t DPS like the other classes and won't touch them unless they hit 40K damage. I get it, you like to burn in trials.. but Crowd control is just as important, especially with no AOE taunt for tanks. Swapping that last destro perk to be an enemy debuff like.. When using an Ice staff, skills gain X% chance to inflict major / minor Fracture / Maim / Breach / Vulnerability for Y seconds. A warden tank with a destro staff back bar could proc an elemental ring to debuff everyone around them, and a ranged mag warden could do it from range with pulsar. Problem is, Wardens don't even do this effectively. That's what I want to see. Each element specialised, yet still a viable end game DPS class.

I always found it strange that shock damage was the one that got Minor Vulnerability of the three elements, on top of the 8% AoE damage boost for Lightning Staffs. Inferno has 8% single target and burning, and Frost has ... nothing. If Minor Vulnerability was applied by frost damage (Chilled) instead of shock (Concussed), it would be a worthwhile support element to bring into group content. Minor Maim is absolutely redundant because it's already applied by the tank, and shock damage already has off-balance for group support with Lightning Wall.

I've wondered why they never just made ice staves increase dot dmg. If fire staff increases single target, lightning staves increase aoe dmg, why not have ice staves increase dot dmg. I understand that the other staves can already increase dot dmg based on if it's aoe or single target. I just think it would be interesting to have a staff that just increases all dot dmg

MLGProPlayer

SodanTok wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Warden was supposed to be support class.

Stop making stuff up.

They have a DPS skill line, a tanking skill line, and a healing skill line. They were designed to fill every role, like every other class in the game.

Thats one thing. Second thing is why is not anything happening? Because they are fine. Wardens are fine.

Most trial leader boards don't feature a single warden in the top-100. They are the most underrepresented class in competitive end game content. They're the opposite of fine in PvE, unless you consider "fine" being not used in end game content.

Wardens don't even come close to hitting acceptable end game DPS numbers. Even with DPS being the easiest role to get a spot with on an end game roster (because there are so many spots), they don't see much action there because they're the only class that can't reach basic cutoff numbers. They also aren't good enough tanks and healers to displace DKs and templars in those roles, so they don't get picked there either.

I am not making stuff lol. The whole premise of warden was to support allies. Check any interview or eso live about wardens

And also stop replying to comment you don't bother to read at all. Your argument literally stands on not reading single word of wrote, because YES, being viable for ANY CONTENT IN THE GAME ON ANY ROLE IS FINE. Not being top100 raids or smth has like nothing to do with being fine. It has never been priority of ZoS to create diversity at the end end game.

Cant fault ZOS for not buffing warden if every PTS you create thread and complain about top100 leaderboards and how bear is not single bared. Start making better excuses for buffing, than stuff that is not important.

Wardens as DD do not operate as ZoS promised to. They dont offer any support in offensive role. There. This is good enough reason to change them. Not leaderboards for 0.1% of playerbase. Not DPS on dummy.

Ever play a MOBA or a competitive shooter?

Characters/guns are always balanced around the highest level of play because that ensures they are viable for everyone.

Wardens are not fine for everyone right now. If you're not a competitive end game DD, you need to have perfect gear + a perfect rotation as a magicka warden in order to hit even remotely competent DPS numbers. Someone with a sorc or NB can hit those numbers with non-BiS gear and a sloppy rotation. Magicka warden sucks just as much for leader board runs as it does for lower end play. That's why you balance at the highest level.

VoiDGhOs7

SodanTok

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Warden was supposed to be support class.

Stop making stuff up.

They have a DPS skill line, a tanking skill line, and a healing skill line. They were designed to fill every role, like every other class in the game.

Thats one thing. Second thing is why is not anything happening? Because they are fine. Wardens are fine.

Most trial leader boards don't feature a single warden in the top-100. They are the most underrepresented class in competitive end game content. They're the opposite of fine in PvE, unless you consider "fine" being not used in end game content.

Wardens don't even come close to hitting acceptable end game DPS numbers. Even with DPS being the easiest role to get a spot with on an end game roster (because there are so many spots), they don't see much action there because they're the only class that can't reach basic cutoff numbers. They also aren't good enough tanks and healers to displace DKs and templars in those roles, so they don't get picked there either.

I am not making stuff lol. The whole premise of warden was to support allies. Check any interview or eso live about wardens

And also stop replying to comment you don't bother to read at all. Your argument literally stands on not reading single word of wrote, because YES, being viable for ANY CONTENT IN THE GAME ON ANY ROLE IS FINE. Not being top100 raids or smth has like nothing to do with being fine. It has never been priority of ZoS to create diversity at the end end game.

Cant fault ZOS for not buffing warden if every PTS you create thread and complain about top100 leaderboards and how bear is not single bared. Start making better excuses for buffing, than stuff that is not important.

Wardens as DD do not operate as ZoS promised to. They dont offer any support in offensive role. There. This is good enough reason to change them. Not leaderboards for 0.1% of playerbase. Not DPS on dummy.

Ever play a MOBA or a competitive shooter?

Characters/guns are always balanced around the highest level of play because that ensures they are viable for everyone.

Wardens are not fine for everyone right now. If you're not a competitive end game DD, you need to have perfect gear + a perfect rotation as a magicka warden in order to hit even remotely competent DPS numbers. Someone with a sorc or NB can hit those numbers with non-BiS gear and a sloppy rotation. Magicka warden sucks just as much for leader board runs as it does for lower end play. That's why you balance at the highest level.

I did (and still do follow dota2 extensively) and that's why I notice when something is not done like that here

I am not saying current way is the right way, but it is the current way.

MLGProPlayer

Now that cliff racer has been nerfed, ZOS can freely buff the class in PvE. There is no excuse anymore not to buff the class.

rustic_potato

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Warden was supposed to be support class.

Stop making stuff up.

They have a DPS skill line, a tanking skill line, and a healing skill line. They were designed to fill every role, like every other class in the game.

Thats one thing. Second thing is why is not anything happening? Because they are fine. Wardens are fine.

Most trial leader boards don't feature a single warden in the top-100. They are the most underrepresented class in competitive end game content. They're the opposite of fine in PvE, unless you consider "fine" being not used in end game content.

Wardens don't even come close to hitting acceptable end game DPS numbers. Even with DPS being the easiest role to get a spot with on an end game roster (because there are so many spots), they don't see much action there because they're the only class that can't reach basic cutoff numbers. They also aren't good enough tanks and healers to displace DKs and templars in those roles, so they don't get picked there either.

I am not making stuff lol. The whole premise of warden was to support allies. Check any interview or eso live about wardens

And also stop replying to comment you don't bother to read at all. Your argument literally stands on not reading single word of wrote, because YES, being viable for ANY CONTENT IN THE GAME ON ANY ROLE IS FINE. Not being top100 raids or smth has like nothing to do with being fine. It has never been priority of ZoS to create diversity at the end end game.

Cant fault ZOS for not buffing warden if every PTS you create thread and complain about top100 leaderboards and how bear is not single bared. Start making better excuses for buffing, than stuff that is not important.

Wardens as DD do not operate as ZoS promised to. They dont offer any support in offensive role. There. This is good enough reason to change them. Not leaderboards for 0.1% of playerbase. Not DPS on dummy.

Ever play a MOBA or a competitive shooter?

Characters/guns are always balanced around the highest level of play because that ensures they are viable for everyone.

Wardens are not fine for everyone right now. If you're not a competitive end game DD, you need to have perfect gear + a perfect rotation as a magicka warden in order to hit even remotely competent DPS numbers. Someone with a sorc or NB can hit those numbers with non-BiS gear and a sloppy rotation. Magicka warden sucks just as much for leader board runs as it does for lower end play. That's why you balance at the highest level.

MMO dont and cannot follow MOBA style of balancing (5k DOTA 2 player here). Morrowind balance patch was the closest you got to a MOBA style game balance and half the raiding community left the game. People expect progression in MMOs their characters need to keep getting stronger as they keep playing.

Although ZOS totally screwed up Warden launch they are taking baby steps to increase its viablity in end game PVE. Its really strong in organized PVP groups and buffing it for PVE would make them broken level OP in PVP. We will eventually see them buffed enough to be viable in PVE just got to be patient. Magika Nightblades were at the bottom of the barrel for almost a year and half and see how they perform now.

Anhedonie

rustic_potato wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Warden was supposed to be support class.

Stop making stuff up.

They have a DPS skill line, a tanking skill line, and a healing skill line. They were designed to fill every role, like every other class in the game.

Thats one thing. Second thing is why is not anything happening? Because they are fine. Wardens are fine.

Most trial leader boards don't feature a single warden in the top-100. They are the most underrepresented class in competitive end game content. They're the opposite of fine in PvE, unless you consider "fine" being not used in end game content.

Wardens don't even come close to hitting acceptable end game DPS numbers. Even with DPS being the easiest role to get a spot with on an end game roster (because there are so many spots), they don't see much action there because they're the only class that can't reach basic cutoff numbers. They also aren't good enough tanks and healers to displace DKs and templars in those roles, so they don't get picked there either.

I am not making stuff lol. The whole premise of warden was to support allies. Check any interview or eso live about wardens

And also stop replying to comment you don't bother to read at all. Your argument literally stands on not reading single word of wrote, because YES, being viable for ANY CONTENT IN THE GAME ON ANY ROLE IS FINE. Not being top100 raids or smth has like nothing to do with being fine. It has never been priority of ZoS to create diversity at the end end game.

Cant fault ZOS for not buffing warden if every PTS you create thread and complain about top100 leaderboards and how bear is not single bared. Start making better excuses for buffing, than stuff that is not important.

Wardens as DD do not operate as ZoS promised to. They dont offer any support in offensive role. There. This is good enough reason to change them. Not leaderboards for 0.1% of playerbase. Not DPS on dummy.

Ever play a MOBA or a competitive shooter?

Characters/guns are always balanced around the highest level of play because that ensures they are viable for everyone.

Wardens are not fine for everyone right now. If you're not a competitive end game DD, you need to have perfect gear + a perfect rotation as a magicka warden in order to hit even remotely competent DPS numbers. Someone with a sorc or NB can hit those numbers with non-BiS gear and a sloppy rotation. Magicka warden sucks just as much for leader board runs as it does for lower end play. That's why you balance at the highest level.

MMO dont and cannot follow MOBA style of balancing (5k DOTA 2 player here). Morrowind balance patch was the closest you got to a MOBA style game balance and half the raiding community left the game. People expect progression in MMOs their characters need to keep getting stronger as they keep playing.

Although ZOS totally screwed up Warden launch they are taking baby steps to increase its viablity in end game PVE. Its really strong in organized PVP groups and buffing it for PVE would make them broken level OP in PVP. We will eventually see them buffed enough to be viable in PVE just got to be patient. Magika Nightblades were at the bottom of the barrel for almost a year and half and see how they perform now.

So far we have yet to see any steps in that direction from ZOS.
Unless increasing healing ult cost and nerfing Poultry Strike counts as good pve balancing.

JaXx64

VoiDGhOs7 wrote: »

method__01

i deleted 4 toons for leveling 4 wardens(3 mag,1 stam) only because i thought warden class had some potential...again zos proved me wrong,all failed to perform in any content where they are either too weak or lack flexibility

well, they will make good mule characters for sure

thank god i didnt delete my magblade,templar and sorceress

stileanima

https://youtu.be/KjAwdVUxIL8

VilniusNastavnik

stileanima wrote: »

https://youtu.be/KjAwdVUxIL8

Now do a solo parse on a dummy self buffed without the raid buffing.

stileanima

VilniusNastavnik wrote: »

Now do a solo parse on a dummy self buffed without the raid buffing.

Not technically "solo" as someone else would be providing Ele Drain in a raid, but here you go.

Tannus15

@stileanima Very nice!

Is there anything unusual about your build or is this the usual 5x Julianos, 3x moondancer / infal / willpower, and is that a nerien'eth lich crystal proc???
Asylum inferno / vMA lightning setup?

stileanima

Tannus15 wrote: »

@stileanima Very nice!

Is there anything unusual about your build or is this the usual 5x Julianos, 3x moondancer / infal / willpower, and is that a nerien'eth lich crystal proc???
Asylum inferno / vMA lightning setup?

Thanks! My build is 5x Master Architect, 3x Willpower, 2x Nerien'eth, 1x Perfect Asylum Inferno, 1x Maelstrom Lightning. This was my setup specifically for Rakkhat (I was missing the proper Heavy helm or shoulder, so I used a Medium piece instead for a little extra stats):



Nerien'eth is really strong on a Mag Warden due to their Piercing Cold passive, which increases their Magic (and Frost) damage by 6%. The Nerien'eth proc is Magic damage, so it hits like a truck.

Zer0oo

stileanima wrote: »

VilniusNastavnik wrote: »

Now do a solo parse on a dummy self buffed without the raid buffing.

Not technically "solo" as someone else would be providing Ele Drain in a raid, but here you go.

Nice dps but have you tried how much dps you get without the bear? Would be interesting to see how much dps the bear enables since pets are not everywhere welcome.
(Also 1.9k mag/sec drain seems quite high.)

As far as i know fetcher dot is still bugged and procs direct damage sets like scathing and Nerien'eth but i think it is fixed on pts.

stileanima

Zer0oo wrote: »

Nice dps but have you tried how much dps you get without the bear? Would be interesting to see how much dps the bear enables since pets are not everywhere welcome.
(Also 1.9k mag/sec drain seems quite high.)

As far as i know fetcher dot is still bugged and procs direct damage sets like scathing and Nerien'eth but i think it is fixed on pts.

Bear-less DPS is not good. That ulti alone adds around, if not more than, 5k single target DPS to the Mag Warden's total damage output. In their current state, I wouldn't bring a Mag Warden to any raid where I couldn't use the Eternal Guardian on every boss fight. And in general, I wouldn't bring them at all to any competitive raid, lol.

As far as my Mag drain per second goes, in that CMX report, it's important to note that the Blue Betty is for some reason not counted as a part of my regen per second. Also for that parse, my character was not a Vampire, which also gave me less regen. Near the end of that parse as well, I sort of "went ham" since I knew the target would die before I ran out of resources.

This is what my regen and drain/sec look like in an actual raid (vMoL in particular is really good for Magicka sustain):



For the above parse, I am also missing a bit of regen because I am not yet Support/Assault Rank 9.

And yeah, Fetcher Infection is still considered direct damage on the live server. Even without it though, Nerien'eth will still proc quite frequently with a spammable Force Pulse build since you will have three+ chances to proc it with every cast of Force Pulse, not to mention with every light attack. Fetcher Infection only ticks once every two seconds anyway, so while it is a contributor to Nerien'eth procs, the fix won't be build-breaking when the next update goes live.

Tannus15

// removed because Stil answered while i was typing :P

WrathOfInnos

5X mechanical acuity with 5X master architect works great on magWarden. Especially since Nerieneth will no longer proc from swarm ticks. 5X Julianos + 5X Architect is nearly as good for anyone who does not like the DPS spikes of Acuity.

I have to agree with @stileanima that Architect is the best 5 piece of you are using the bear, and it helps to fill the offensive group buff gap that wardens seem to have. I can confidently say that no class can make better use of Master Architect.

Acuity works well on any class with low crit chance, and it doesn't get much lower than the 42% that magwarden has when using Architect.

I disagree that Warden is useless without the bear. I find it is about a 2k loss on a dummy (39-40k with, 37-38k without). In trials it is probably more like 3-4K loss for single target, but it is a DPS gain to use elemental rage over the bear on any fight with adds.

I'm not sure architect is worth using with the Destro ulti though. The Major Slayer uptime is terrible with an expensive ultimate, but on the other hand you are getting the buff at the point where your DPS is highest and still buffing the group. I've been looking into alternate sets to pair with Acuity for a petless warden, and Necropotence (with Netch) and Moondancer (with improved synergies) are looking like the best 2 options.

Still, magWarden DPS could use some help, both with some (preferably offensive) group benefits, and with raw DPS in PVE. Currently pet warden is a good 5k behind pet sorc, and petless warden cannot come close to magblade numbers (although it is pretty close to petless sorc). These 3 classes are the most comparable, given they are the ranged DPS in any trial. It is clear that warden is the weakest ranged DPS class.

Tannus15

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I disagree that Warden is useless without the bear. I find it is about a 2k loss on a dummy (39-40k with, 37-38k without). In trials it is probably more like 3-4K loss for single target, but it is a DPS gain to use elemental rage over the bear on any fight with adds.

that was what I would have expected, but I'm not going to argue with anyone who is significantly better than me :P

Anhedonie

stileanima wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

Nice dps but have you tried how much dps you get without the bear? Would be interesting to see how much dps the bear enables since pets are not everywhere welcome.
(Also 1.9k mag/sec drain seems quite high.)

As far as i know fetcher dot is still bugged and procs direct damage sets like scathing and Nerien'eth but i think it is fixed on pts.

Bear-less DPS is not good. That ulti alone adds around, if not more than, 5k single target DPS to the Mag Warden's total damage output. In their current state, I wouldn't bring a Mag Warden to any raid where I couldn't use the Eternal Guardian on every boss fight. And in general, I wouldn't bring them at all to any competitive raid, lol.

As far as my Mag drain per second goes, in that CMX report, it's important to note that the Blue Betty is for some reason not counted as a part of my regen per second. Also for that parse, my character was not a Vampire, which also gave me less regen. Near the end of that parse as well, I sort of "went ham" since I knew the target would die before I ran out of resources.

This is what my regen and drain/sec look like in an actual raid (vMoL in particular is really good for Magicka sustain):



For the above parse, I am also missing a bit of regen because I am not yet Support/Assault Rank 9.

And yeah, Fetcher Infection is still considered direct damage on the live server. Even without it though, Nerien'eth will still proc quite frequently with a spammable Force Pulse build since you will have three+ chances to proc it with every cast of Force Pulse, not to mention with every light attack. Fetcher Infection only ticks once every two seconds anyway, so while it is a contributor to Nerien'eth procs, the fix won't be build-breaking when the next update goes live.

It's nice, but still doesn't compare to stamsorc's 68k dps. And doesn't excuse clunky rotation or heavy bear reliance.

Tannus15

Anhedonie wrote: »

stileanima wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

Nice dps but have you tried how much dps you get without the bear? Would be interesting to see how much dps the bear enables since pets are not everywhere welcome.
(Also 1.9k mag/sec drain seems quite high.)

As far as i know fetcher dot is still bugged and procs direct damage sets like scathing and Nerien'eth but i think it is fixed on pts.

Bear-less DPS is not good. That ulti alone adds around, if not more than, 5k single target DPS to the Mag Warden's total damage output. In their current state, I wouldn't bring a Mag Warden to any raid where I couldn't use the Eternal Guardian on every boss fight. And in general, I wouldn't bring them at all to any competitive raid, lol.

As far as my Mag drain per second goes, in that CMX report, it's important to note that the Blue Betty is for some reason not counted as a part of my regen per second. Also for that parse, my character was not a Vampire, which also gave me less regen. Near the end of that parse as well, I sort of "went ham" since I knew the target would die before I ran out of resources.

This is what my regen and drain/sec look like in an actual raid (vMoL in particular is really good for Magicka sustain):



For the above parse, I am also missing a bit of regen because I am not yet Support/Assault Rank 9.

And yeah, Fetcher Infection is still considered direct damage on the live server. Even without it though, Nerien'eth will still proc quite frequently with a spammable Force Pulse build since you will have three+ chances to proc it with every cast of Force Pulse, not to mention with every light attack. Fetcher Infection only ticks once every two seconds anyway, so while it is a contributor to Nerien'eth procs, the fix won't be build-breaking when the next update goes live.

It's nice, but still doesn't compare to stamsorc's 68k dps. And doesn't excuse clunky rotation or heavy bear reliance.

it doesn't need to compare to a stam sorc 68k dps. it's not a melee class.