PTS Update 17 - Feedback Thread for Combat Balance

WrathOfInnos · January 2018

Nibelaja wrote: »

New Zaan monsterset seems to be nice for magicka melees, correct me if im wrong:

(3440 + 1,5 x 3440 + 1,5^2 x 3440 + 1,5^3 x 3440 + 1,5^4 x 3440)/15 = 3024,33 DPS

With good weaving you should be able to maintain the uptime flawless.

Haven't had a chance to test it yet, but I would guess it does not scale exponentially. More likely first tick is 100%, then 150% of tooltip, then 200%...

usmcjdking · January 2018

Savos_Saren wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Powerlash and offbalance is utterly broken on PTS @ZOS_GinaBruno

I am having a hard time landing a regular whip between the infinite power lashes. On a stamina dragonknight I might add.

@usmcjdking

Are you achieving multiple power lashes on a player or on a test dummy?

If you’re testing on a dummy- try dueling someone to see if it works and if breakfree will grant them an immunity to offbalance.

Off balance has no cooldown or immunity that I am able to find aginst a player. I can petrify - whip -lashx4 as long as I please.

potirondb16_ESO · January 2018

Yo_Donno wrote: »

Hamburglarjones wrote: »

Senaja wrote: »

Boss enemies can only be set Off Balance once every 15 to 20 seconds. After the first Off Balance debuff ends on a boss enemy, they will be immune to subsequent Off Balance debuffs until this immunity duration is over.

4 Second Uptime and 15 Second cooldown?! 26,6% Uptime? or did I understand that incorrectly?

That's what I took from it aswell. Just terrible....

Yup. RIP Trials DPS as it is now. New meta incoming for sure... but what?
EDIT: Looks like concussed status effects refresh the off-balance counter so maybe with asylum staffs this can be mitigated?

That might actually be a bug. I actually would prefer it if they'd make adjustment to the minor bonus instead of allowing a way through the new off-balance system. The new system is actually pretty cool, it first kill the 75pts into thaumaturge for magicka which was a bummer, they also nerf stamina dps which were overpowered.

With an increase of the power of minor buff there might actually be a way to keep all class combination interesting inside a raid without lowering the overall group efficiency during trial.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · January 2018

Didgerion wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[img][/img]
When a cast time or channeled ability is interrupted, you will be staggered, stunned, and set Off Balance. After the stun ends, you gain crowd control immunity.

Crowd control immunity now grants immunity to all interrupt effects. After a cast time or channeled ability is interrupted, you will be immune to any future interrupts until crowd control immunity wears off.

Does it mean that as soon as I break free from a stun I can Dark Deal in the enemy's face without being interrupted?

SHHHHHHHHHHHH

Yolokin_Swagonborn · January 2018

mpicklesster wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

If I read that correctly I can only use the shards synergy once every 30 seconds? While also increasing block cost?

^^^^This. I understand ZOS's need to address permablock builds in PvP. However, since this is primarily a PvP gripe, it should be remedied with PvP filters such as Battle Spirit.

I wish people understood that "permablock" is NOT a problem in PvP.

Here's a thought experiment for you. Can you kill someone with the sword and shield ult up. Happens to me all the time. Block Cost is not the problem. 2 or three non-potatoes can easily pump out enough DPS to kill anyone just sitting there holding block. the problem is damage mitigation and/or healing.

Previously there were some shady ways of getting a lot of mitigation. For the most part those bugs are gone and I haven't seen ANYONE just sitting there with max health while 5 people beat on them. That was a mitigation issue, not a block issue!

Block is fine.

Solinur · January 2018

Nibelaja wrote: »

New Zaan monsterset seems to be nice for magicka melees, correct me if im wrong:

(3440 + 1,5 x 3440 + 1,5^2 x 3440 + 1,5^3 x 3440 + 1,5^4 x 3440)/15 = 3024,33 DPS

With good weaving you should be able to maintain the uptime flawless.

Just made ~ 3k dps, proccing 6x in about 90s on single target

Ashamray · January 2018

Prepare, people, I'm going to Dark Flare you all
\o/

Moloch1514 · January 2018

So as a Pet-Sorc HA build, my solo-DPS is going to see yet another NERF (every patch since Morrowind)??? That is the only build I can get decent DPS with an easy rotation (I am not a 1%'er and play mostly with 1 partner), but every frickin' patch @ZOS makes me weaker and weaker.

I've played since launch, but now with my one decent DPS build getting weaker every quarter, it is really getting hard to keep coming back to this.

Bosov · January 2018

Dracane wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

[*] If I am reading the interrupt-immune changes correctly, opponents who are CC immune can;t be interrupted. I'd like some clarification here: does that mean I can Rez people, set up Forward camps, etc., with impunity? Can;t say I like that. Does this mean if someone CC breaks or pops an immovable pot, they are free to Jesus Beam me in the face? OK, I'm a templar and I love Jesus Beaming people, but that seems to be taking away too much counter-play. I'll test it out, but I I'm not sure about this.

No you cannot. They said on ESO live, that ressurection remains interruptable at all times, as it is an essential element of the game or so.

I never do these kind of things, but don't camp setups break, as soon as you take damage ? Acivities that break when taking damage, will still behave the same way.

Thank God... i was actually afraid this was going to happen. Its already hard enough to prevent someone trying to res while fighting outnumbered.

Glory · January 2018

For those not able to get into PTS, the Thurvokun 2 piece in action.

I would personally like to see the AoE grow a bit faster. I think it'd be slightly too strong if it was PBAoE, but think in it's current state the growth of the circle is too slow to keep anyone in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDVz2NT8FR4&feature=youtu.be

Aerem · January 2018

Glory wrote: »

For those not able to get into PTS, the Thurvokun 2 piece in action.

I would personally like to see the AoE grow a bit faster. I think it'd be slightly too strong if it was PBAoE, but think in it's current state the growth of the circle is too slow to keep anyone in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDVz2NT8FR4&feature=youtu.be

That is a massive circle, I think the set has it's uses, especially if you're using it in a tight space like a resource tower it would be very strong.

Morgul667 · January 2018

The gap closer change seems completely uncalled for

Izaki · January 2018

Nibelaja wrote: »

New Zaan monsterset seems to be nice for magicka melees, correct me if im wrong:

(3440 + 1,5 x 3440 + 1,5^2 x 3440 + 1,5^3 x 3440 + 1,5^4 x 3440)/15 = 3024,33 DPS

With good weaving you should be able to maintain the uptime flawless.

You'd also need to be in melee range. In most raids its possible for ranged DDs to come into melee range, but not for the full fight duration.

ManDraKE · January 2018

Morgul667 wrote: »

The gap closer change seems completely uncalled for

on the contrary, i've been waiting for a long time for it. Gap closers are utility skills, not spamable dps skills.

Morgul667 · January 2018

ManDraKE wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

The gap closer change seems completely uncalled for

on the contrary, i've been waiting for a long time for it. Gap closers are utility skills, not spamable dps skills.

This is what they are now, but I dont think stamina needs this kind of "nerf", nor do I think it is healthier to have "dps less" charge skills

usmcjdking · January 2018

The only gap closer of the bunch that you could argue against nerfing is the WW gap closer.

WW is in such bad shape that any nerf in it's direction makes it even less usable than it currently is.

Kronuxx · January 2018

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Hi,

I thought this set of changes look pretty good. I only have one issue I think needs to be addressed.

1. Why are melee cast time abilities being favored over ranged cast time abilities, considering most of these melee cast time abilties have powerful CC effects attached to them?

Per the patch notes:

Melee cast time and channeled abilities (Uppercut, Puncturing Strikes, etc.) and some ranged abilities (Rapid Fire) are still exceptions to this rule and allow you to move at full speed.

When an ability is interrupted, it is now put on a 3-second cooldown where it cannot be used.

Melee cast time and channeled abilities (Uppercut, Puncturing Strikes, etc.), Ultimate abilities (Soul Strike, Rite of Passage, etc.), and Heavy Attacks are still exceptions to this rule and cannot be interrupted.

All cast time abilities need to be able to be interrupted to be consistent and to give valid counter play. Its absolutely infuriating that someone can do a full heavy resto stafff attack or charge up a Dizzying Swing in my face and I can't interrupt them, yet if i try and cast a Crystal Blast in their face they can bash me? i mean face it, ranged combat makes up less then 20% of the games PVP combat because everyone is up in your face due to gap closers still being overtuned despite the damage reductions this update. Gap Closers still perma snare you with a charge snare, and still have no penalty for spamming them, making ranged combat almost impossible.

All Heavy attacks, Soul Strike, and Uppercut need to be able to be interupted with a bash (I can understand exempting them from Crushing Shock and Venom Arrow) but if someone gets up in your face and wants to use Dizzying Swing or a Heavy Attack you should be able to bash then and stop them if you have the stamina to do so. This is the essence of skillful counterplay...if I can't hard cast a Crystal Blast in someones face, I shouldn't be able to hard cast an Uppercut or Heavy Attack either.

Furthermore, Puncturing Strikes/Biting Jabs already snares you by 70%(which is way too much) their should be a small movement speed penalty of at least 10% for the casting Puncturing/Jabs Templar. I mean afterall your already snaring your target by 70% with no cooldown....its not like your going to be moving slower then your target while your target has a permanent 70% snare on them.

Soul Strike needs to go back to being interruptible but not blockable, as the primary use of the skill was for dealing with permablockers and permarollers.

Other then that I think you folks did a good job

just make all skills(melee or ranged) with cast times able to be interupted and make heavy attacks interuptable again and you have a winner. If someone wants to use a melee or ranged cast time skilll and not get interupted, they should have to use an immovable pot.

PS: Immovable pots are still too strong...15 seconds of CC immunity is way too strong for a potion, it really ought to be reduced to around 7.5 to 8 seconds at most...15 seconds is an eternity in PVP

Take care

I disagree with uppercut/dizzying swing being interruptible. This skill is difficult to land due to the minimum range required and it's long upswing that is easily telegraphed. Against even a semi-competent opponent, it is dodged, blocked, completely negated by either side stepping, or passing through the player trying to complete the Uppercut/dizzying swing move. Long ago when this skill was first introduced it was interruptible, but ZOS has since removed that mechanic and rightly so.

Soul Strike on the other hand, I agree should be interruptible, and it should still be blockable. It has a long range, is very easy to land, and causes a very significant snare. So no, it should still be blockable, and in addition it should be interruptible. And perhaps that is your primary use of soul strike, but most people do not use it for permablocker or permarollers as you say. In fact, most people will spam it as soon as it available on an unsuspecting someone whose back is towards them. Also your statistic of: "ranged combat makes up less then 20% of the games PVP combat?" What? Huh? Can you quote me your source? Is this anecdotal evidence? Right...

ManDraKE · January 2018

Morgul667 wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

The gap closer change seems completely uncalled for

on the contrary, i've been waiting for a long time for it. Gap closers are utility skills, not spamable dps skills.

This is what they are now, but I dont think stamina needs this kind of "nerf", nor do I think it is healthier to have "dps less" charge skills

For me is a buff, i will be way more survivable while kitting zerglings chasing me with gap closer spam lol.

Solariken · January 2018

Please consider speeding up the activation of the Toxic Barrage bow ultimate morph (takes too long to start the channel!), reducing the channel time slightly (so Hawk Eye doesn't fall off), and reducing the cost of all morphs. Cost should in my opinion be 100 (same cost as Soul Assault, yet the bow ult is much riskier to use and leaves much more room for counterplay).

Edit: you could alternatively have each hit of the channel refresh Hawk Eye applications.

Narvuntien · January 2018

I wont be able to get on the PTS for a few weeks since I have been downloading it for a couple of days and its still at 15%.

grr to having to redownload the game grr.

I am pretty sure this change means my Sorc healer no longer works, or makes any sense. Since it worked on having 100% minor vulnerability uptime. This is going to be a strange ask but could the Sorc healer get a buff... change some of my pointless CC abilities into something useful for healing, like was done for NB last patch.

CombatPrayer · January 2018

Flaminir wrote: »

I actually like the sound of almost all of these changes....

Except block cost changes!

Massively increasing the cost of block, while at the same time reducing the return from Orbs/Shards feels like an extremely heavy handed way of fixing.... well... fixing what exactly?

I really can see no requirement for this change, and it's the less skilled players that it's going to hit hardest.

Of fixing that there were still trials happening. Looks like they want to remedy that ASAP.

olsborg · January 2018

Medium armor needs a buff. Also friends are saying dks can use powerlash 5x in a row with offbalance. Ehn huh?

coop500 · January 2018

You nerfed WWs again for no reason... And did't fix any of our bugs.
Not happy ZOS, not happy at all.

DosPanchos · January 2018

Derra wrote: »

MagDK using 5x powerlash in a row will not be good for pvp.

I believe the notes say power lash stuns enemy players which ends off balance...

usmcjdking · January 2018

DosPanchos wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

MagDK using 5x powerlash in a row will not be good for pvp.

I believe the notes say power lash stuns enemy players which ends off balance...

And the whip right after puts them offbalance again.

Joy_Division · January 2018

usmcjdking wrote: »

The only gap closer of the bunch that you could argue against nerfing is the WW gap closer.

WW is in such bad shape that any nerf in it's direction makes it even less usable than it currently is.

Templar Focus Charge is both bad and buggy.

DosPanchos · January 2018

usmcjdking wrote: »

DosPanchos wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

MagDK using 5x powerlash in a row will not be good for pvp.

I believe the notes say power lash stuns enemy players which ends off balance...

And the whip right after puts them offbalance again.

But I'm assuming cc immunity would kick in, preventing any spamming.

usmcjdking · January 2018

DosPanchos wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

DosPanchos wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

MagDK using 5x powerlash in a row will not be good for pvp.

I believe the notes say power lash stuns enemy players which ends off balance...

And the whip right after puts them offbalance again.

But I'm assuming cc immunity would kick in, preventing any spamming.

No. You just resume powerlashing. It's almost impossible to lose runaway power lashes if you use petrify/talons.

usmcjdking · January 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

The only gap closer of the bunch that you could argue against nerfing is the WW gap closer.

WW is in such bad shape that any nerf in it's direction makes it even less usable than it currently is.

Templar Focus Charge is both bad and buggy.

@Joy_Division

I haven't noticed anything spectacularily bad about toppling charge but then again I don't play much magplar. It seems to work like any other gap closer with maybe a few more Z axis restrictions.

Smmokkee · January 2018

Derra wrote: »

MagDK using 5x powerlash in a row will not be good for pvp.

Omg right!

I think the powerlash move is just bad. Magdks are gonna be even nastier in pvp. Lol.

Crowd control immunity should not last 7 seconds either. If its 3 seconds to cast again after a ability was interrupted it should be 3 seconds of uninterruptible abilities. 7 seconds?? Thats like a complete fight reset for stam sorcs.