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CWC pointlessly easy.
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Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭phileunderx2 wrote: »I hate all the ccing too. Especially the mobs with the traps that they can throw a mile away with pinpoint accuracy.
i've never seen a game development team so obsessed with snares.
at least its not obsession with knockbacks/knockdowns like bioware has in swtor.
but back to the topic. something that has been brought up. over and over. but you all keep ignoring it. not everyone plays at the same skill level. not even when they are no longer new. one person's brain dead easy is another person's just challenging enough, is another person's getting a little too difficult. and before you go into the derisive "stop light attack spamming" that is not necessarily the case either - some people are not quick at hitting their abilities, etc etc. because overworld content is the bulk of the game, ZoS has to make it as accessible to as many people as possible.
so by all means, keep asking for difficulty slider. but STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT HOW BRAIN DEAD EASY THE GAME IS. your experience is NOT everyone's experience, its not even experience of most.MasterSpatula wrote: »Everyone was happy when the entire game was scaled.
You don't get to have an entire level-scaled game AND have overland content that's difficult for experienced players. You just don't.
No one is asking for it to be difficult for experinced players, but it would be nice if you could at LEAST pull off 1 rotation before killing an enemy, or if the enemy could , i dunno, use shields or heal themself to prolong the battle. I can use snipe, and if I am lucky poison injection or cliffracer afterward before they are down for the count. No threat what so ever.
here is the problem with this setup. lets assume that as a veteran player, you do 30k dps. average player who looked up the builds and bothered to get at least somewhat decent gear will do maybe 10k dps. a leveling player questing in whatever gear was rewarded to them by quests? is going to do about 5k dps. if you are not seeing where I'm going with this yet, lets do some math.
a full rotation for you = 3 rotations for a max level average lvl 50 player. and 6 rotations for a leveling player. for each. and every. single. mob. now... consider that a lot of them come in pairs. or more. do you see where I'm going with this now?
selective difficulty would be just fine. and btw, people complaining about swtor being easy? have OBVIOUSLY never tried doing chapters on veteran, let alone master. they are anything BUT easy. the problem with swtor is not the difficulty. its the lack of content in general. for the last few years, other then few hours of story here and there, all the other content is basically regearing through the same ops and flashpoints that in case of some of them - were there from launch. THAT is why the game started to lose players. not a mere difficulty. making the story progression far to linear and everything else - nonexistant. little to no content.
1 Rotation takes 5 seconds, so by your math a new player would spend around 30 secnds per mob, that is not asking a lot.Right, so exactly because questing is what TES has been known for, it is important that questing is what remains available to the entire population, i.e. it should remain easy to do.
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to having separate instances for different "difficulties" for quests, but that would only cause a larger divide in ESO's map population. What you are essentially asking for is an offline version of ESO, where you can do your quests at the difficulty you want, without having to give a fudge about the rest of the population. Why not go and play Skyrim instead, or any of the other single player games?
Questing should be like a mini story. And a good fantasy/adventure story should have memorable enemies and an ultimate nemisis encounter to work towards. Killing said enemy in 10-30 seconds with zero chance to fail is not memorable.
And about SWOTR: I loved that game, Sith Juggernaut is still my favorite class in all the MMOs I have played. But SWOTR becoming way to easy is exactly the reason why I no longer play it.
Way to simply not address the rest of my post, lol.
Again, you are ignoring the fact that what is an easy 10-30 second fight for players like you or me could be an agonizing 5-10 minute fight for someone who isn't as well optimized or well versed with the game (or games in general).
You finding it easy is a moot point. As I stated before, difficulty is subjective and cannot (and should not) be used as an objective gauge for content.
If the storyline/difficulty of quests isn't enough for you, then perhaps it'd indeed be a good idea for you to move on to something you find more challenging.
10-30 seconds is being generous, i havent met a overland mob or quest boss that has lasted more than 5 seconds in a very long time.
The actual time is arbitrary. The point still stands.
Let me put it this way, with 98 spell damage, yes, 98, I can kill mobs no issue, and even simulating a lot of mess ups, same. Everyone has more than 98 spell damage. -everyone-.
those 30 seconds add up. surviving a group of those mobs adds up as well. moreover - let me try to reiterate. AGAIN. there are players who do VMA in crafted purples. there are players who can NOT do VMA even when they farm up better sets and gold their gear. what YOU are asking for is not even a bloody toggle. most of us would wecome a difficulty toggle, slider, what have you. you are asking for the entire game to be scaled for players that can do VMA in non optimized purples without realizing, or refusing to see it anyways, that for the rest of us who cannot do VMA - the game will become unplayable.
so yes. it is too much to ask.
Lol wut? 10-20% more difficult is asking to have overland content outside of starting areas be as difficult as veteran maelstrom arena? Where are you even pulling this from, clearly not reality. If you dont have 5 minutes to spend on a dungeon, then you need to stick to priorities, no one is that busy.Let me put it this way, with 98 spell damage, yes, 98, I can kill mobs no issue, and even simulating a lot of mess ups, same. Everyone has more than 98 spell damage. -everyone-.
Yes, which is why quests are currently not much of an issue for most players.
Some delve bosses, however, can cause some troubles to some players.
Your basic damage is 1100 weapon / spell damage, that is ten times what I said, so the content is clearly too easy.Right, so exactly because questing is what TES has been known for, it is important that questing is what remains available to the entire population, i.e. it should remain easy to do.
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to having separate instances for different "difficulties" for quests, but that would only cause a larger divide in ESO's map population. What you are essentially asking for is an offline version of ESO, where you can do your quests at the difficulty you want, without having to give a fudge about the rest of the population. Why not go and play Skyrim instead, or any of the other single player games?
Questing should be like a mini story. And a good fantasy/adventure story should have memorable enemies and an ultimate nemisis encounter to work towards. Killing said enemy in 10-30 seconds with zero chance to fail is not memorable.
And about SWOTR: I loved that game, Sith Juggernaut is still my favorite class in all the MMOs I have played. But SWOTR becoming way to easy is exactly the reason why I no longer play it.
Way to simply not address the rest of my post, lol.
Again, you are ignoring the fact that what is an easy 10-30 second fight for players like you or me could be an agonizing 5-10 minute fight for someone who isn't as well optimized or well versed with the game (or games in general).
You finding it easy is a moot point. As I stated before, difficulty is subjective and cannot (and should not) be used as an objective gauge for content.
If the storyline/difficulty of quests isn't enough for you, then perhaps it'd indeed be a good idea for you to move on to something you find more challenging.
I didn't respond to the rest of your message because you are ignoring what I say which is that I don't want to make the game harder for newer players. I just want options for more veteran players. But, in general, questing should not be easy, it should be challenging but doable, for every type of player. Keeping one set difficulty will make it impossible to please all type of players. They added two different difficulty levels to other PvE content, why not general questing?
And telling people to just leave the game is really, really lame.
You didn't just talk about having more options, though. I responded to the rest of your post point by point.
As I said, I wouldn't necessarily be against having a separate "veteran" map option with more buffed creatures, but that will only further divide the map population.
Throwing a tantrum that overland content, objectively the most accessible and easiest content in all MMOs, being too easy is equally as lame.
Constructive criticism with reasonable compromises is throwing a tantrum? The only people I hear throwing a tantrum are the ones calling us arrogant, and other names for voicing our opinion, which is shared by a lot of people btw, that the overland content is far too easy, and a slight buff to it, especially dlc would only make the game better. Slight buff =/= turning everything to vma levels. I mean really, what is the point of using any gear if you can do the whole game naked pretty much?
2 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭phileunderx2 wrote: »I hate all the ccing too. Especially the mobs with the traps that they can throw a mile away with pinpoint accuracy.
i've never seen a game development team so obsessed with snares.
at least its not obsession with knockbacks/knockdowns like bioware has in swtor.
but back to the topic. something that has been brought up. over and over. but you all keep ignoring it. not everyone plays at the same skill level. not even when they are no longer new. one person's brain dead easy is another person's just challenging enough, is another person's getting a little too difficult. and before you go into the derisive "stop light attack spamming" that is not necessarily the case either - some people are not quick at hitting their abilities, etc etc. because overworld content is the bulk of the game, ZoS has to make it as accessible to as many people as possible.
so by all means, keep asking for difficulty slider. but STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT HOW BRAIN DEAD EASY THE GAME IS. your experience is NOT everyone's experience, its not even experience of most.MasterSpatula wrote: »Everyone was happy when the entire game was scaled.
You don't get to have an entire level-scaled game AND have overland content that's difficult for experienced players. You just don't.
No one is asking for it to be difficult for experinced players, but it would be nice if you could at LEAST pull off 1 rotation before killing an enemy, or if the enemy could , i dunno, use shields or heal themself to prolong the battle. I can use snipe, and if I am lucky poison injection or cliffracer afterward before they are down for the count. No threat what so ever.
here is the problem with this setup. lets assume that as a veteran player, you do 30k dps. average player who looked up the builds and bothered to get at least somewhat decent gear will do maybe 10k dps. a leveling player questing in whatever gear was rewarded to them by quests? is going to do about 5k dps. if you are not seeing where I'm going with this yet, lets do some math.
a full rotation for you = 3 rotations for a max level average lvl 50 player. and 6 rotations for a leveling player. for each. and every. single. mob. now... consider that a lot of them come in pairs. or more. do you see where I'm going with this now?
selective difficulty would be just fine. and btw, people complaining about swtor being easy? have OBVIOUSLY never tried doing chapters on veteran, let alone master. they are anything BUT easy. the problem with swtor is not the difficulty. its the lack of content in general. for the last few years, other then few hours of story here and there, all the other content is basically regearing through the same ops and flashpoints that in case of some of them - were there from launch. THAT is why the game started to lose players. not a mere difficulty. making the story progression far to linear and everything else - nonexistant. little to no content.
1 Rotation takes 5 seconds, so by your math a new player would spend around 30 secnds per mob, that is not asking a lot.Right, so exactly because questing is what TES has been known for, it is important that questing is what remains available to the entire population, i.e. it should remain easy to do.
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to having separate instances for different "difficulties" for quests, but that would only cause a larger divide in ESO's map population. What you are essentially asking for is an offline version of ESO, where you can do your quests at the difficulty you want, without having to give a fudge about the rest of the population. Why not go and play Skyrim instead, or any of the other single player games?
Questing should be like a mini story. And a good fantasy/adventure story should have memorable enemies and an ultimate nemisis encounter to work towards. Killing said enemy in 10-30 seconds with zero chance to fail is not memorable.
And about SWOTR: I loved that game, Sith Juggernaut is still my favorite class in all the MMOs I have played. But SWOTR becoming way to easy is exactly the reason why I no longer play it.
Way to simply not address the rest of my post, lol.
Again, you are ignoring the fact that what is an easy 10-30 second fight for players like you or me could be an agonizing 5-10 minute fight for someone who isn't as well optimized or well versed with the game (or games in general).
You finding it easy is a moot point. As I stated before, difficulty is subjective and cannot (and should not) be used as an objective gauge for content.
If the storyline/difficulty of quests isn't enough for you, then perhaps it'd indeed be a good idea for you to move on to something you find more challenging.
10-30 seconds is being generous, i havent met a overland mob or quest boss that has lasted more than 5 seconds in a very long time.
The actual time is arbitrary. The point still stands.
Let me put it this way, with 98 spell damage, yes, 98, I can kill mobs no issue, and even simulating a lot of mess ups, same. Everyone has more than 98 spell damage. -everyone-.
those 30 seconds add up. surviving a group of those mobs adds up as well. moreover - let me try to reiterate. AGAIN. there are players who do VMA in crafted purples. there are players who can NOT do VMA even when they farm up better sets and gold their gear. what YOU are asking for is not even a bloody toggle. most of us would wecome a difficulty toggle, slider, what have you. you are asking for the entire game to be scaled for players that can do VMA in non optimized purples without realizing, or refusing to see it anyways, that for the rest of us who cannot do VMA - the game will become unplayable.
so yes. it is too much to ask.
Lol wut? 10-20% more difficult is asking to have overland content outside of starting areas be as difficult as veteran maelstrom arena? Where are you even pulling this from, clearly not reality. If you dont have 5 minutes to spend on a dungeon, then you need to stick to priorities, no one is that busy.Let me put it this way, with 98 spell damage, yes, 98, I can kill mobs no issue, and even simulating a lot of mess ups, same. Everyone has more than 98 spell damage. -everyone-.
Yes, which is why quests are currently not much of an issue for most players.
Some delve bosses, however, can cause some troubles to some players.
Your basic damage is 1100 weapon / spell damage, that is ten times what I said, so the content is clearly too easy.Right, so exactly because questing is what TES has been known for, it is important that questing is what remains available to the entire population, i.e. it should remain easy to do.
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to having separate instances for different "difficulties" for quests, but that would only cause a larger divide in ESO's map population. What you are essentially asking for is an offline version of ESO, where you can do your quests at the difficulty you want, without having to give a fudge about the rest of the population. Why not go and play Skyrim instead, or any of the other single player games?
Questing should be like a mini story. And a good fantasy/adventure story should have memorable enemies and an ultimate nemisis encounter to work towards. Killing said enemy in 10-30 seconds with zero chance to fail is not memorable.
And about SWOTR: I loved that game, Sith Juggernaut is still my favorite class in all the MMOs I have played. But SWOTR becoming way to easy is exactly the reason why I no longer play it.
Way to simply not address the rest of my post, lol.
Again, you are ignoring the fact that what is an easy 10-30 second fight for players like you or me could be an agonizing 5-10 minute fight for someone who isn't as well optimized or well versed with the game (or games in general).
You finding it easy is a moot point. As I stated before, difficulty is subjective and cannot (and should not) be used as an objective gauge for content.
If the storyline/difficulty of quests isn't enough for you, then perhaps it'd indeed be a good idea for you to move on to something you find more challenging.
I didn't respond to the rest of your message because you are ignoring what I say which is that I don't want to make the game harder for newer players. I just want options for more veteran players. But, in general, questing should not be easy, it should be challenging but doable, for every type of player. Keeping one set difficulty will make it impossible to please all type of players. They added two different difficulty levels to other PvE content, why not general questing?
And telling people to just leave the game is really, really lame.
You didn't just talk about having more options, though. I responded to the rest of your post point by point.
As I said, I wouldn't necessarily be against having a separate "veteran" map option with more buffed creatures, but that will only further divide the map population.
Throwing a tantrum that overland content, objectively the most accessible and easiest content in all MMOs, being too easy is equally as lame.
Constructive criticism with reasonable compromises is throwing a tantrum? The only people I hear throwing a tantrum are the ones calling us arrogant, and other names for voicing our opinion, which is shared by a lot of people btw, that the overland content is far too easy, and a slight buff to it, especially dlc would only make the game better. Slight buff =/= turning everything to vma levels. I mean really, what is the point of using any gear if you can do the whole game naked pretty much?
You are arrogant.
And selfish.
It wont stop at a small buff. It never does. Your greed will not allow it. You will force out everyone else, as MMO players have done before, and when the game dies you'll ask how did this happen. Enough. You have your difficult content. Leave it be.2 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Wow.
He asked for a slight increase and you turn it to "you won't stop there". Also good to know that asking for a tiny bit of difficulty has something to do with greed.
This logic is screwed.2 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The needs of the many, outweigh the desires of the few.
The majority of the player base would be harmed by an over-world difficulty increase. Players would flee this game, and their financial support would evaporate with it.
The "many" that I quoted, are the Casual players. The "few"? Those are the small niche-within-a-niche of Players who want the over-world difficulty increased.
But as @Doctordarkspawn said: An increase in over-world difficulty will cause a mass migration away from ESO. It's happened in countless MMORPG's in the past. Once those Players are gone (and their financial support with it), ESO will die. It's already been proven, when other MMO developers have listened to the niche crowd, and ramped up the difficulty of even basic tasks.
And once the game is facing it's final days, those of you who are proponents for this difficulty increase; you'll look around at a game that has fewer and fewer Players per day, you'll wonder why the game is so dead, and why Zeni is facing a server shut down, and you'll wonder why it happened.
This isn't "fear-mongering" or "doomsaying", it's been proven already, with at least five (5) MMORPG's that I know of. They ramped up the difficulty (or even gave it just a slight increase in three [3] of those MMORPG's), and the Casual Players fled the game, and New Players tried out the game, saw that it was too difficult, and they went to play other games. With that financial support and Player Population bleeding out; those MMORPG's had to massively scale down their number of servers, new content was/has become laughably rare, and in most all of those cases, they shut the game(s) down for good. the few that survive to this day, have the smallest fraction of their former Player populations. Those MMO's are dead.
But your desire to have this change (and by proxy, the game as a whole) cater to your specific, niche won't let you see that you would have been the cause of it in yet another MMORPG.
Even a slight increase in over-world difficulty will have disastrous effects on ESO.
IMO, I hope you never get what you want.
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!4 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »The needs of the many, outweigh the desires of the few.
The majority of the player base would be harmed by an over-world difficulty increase. [...]
Even a slight increase in over-world difficulty will have disastrous effects on ESO.
IMO, I hope you never get what you want.
Who would be hurt by a difficulty slider?0 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »The needs of the many, outweigh the desires of the few.
The majority of the player base would be harmed by an over-world difficulty increase. [...]
Even a slight increase in over-world difficulty will have disastrous effects on ESO.
IMO, I hope you never get what you want.
Who would be hurt by a difficulty slider?
I explained it in my post.
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »The needs of the many, outweigh the desires of the few.
The majority of the player base would be harmed by an over-world difficulty increase. [...]
Even a slight increase in over-world difficulty will have disastrous effects on ESO.
IMO, I hope you never get what you want.
Who would be hurt by a difficulty slider?
I explained it in my post.
Where? You only talk about a general difficulty increase.
Where do you write about what's wrong with a normal (as it is right now) and a veteran mode for overland?0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭phileunderx2 wrote: »I hate all the ccing too. Especially the mobs with the traps that they can throw a mile away with pinpoint accuracy.
i've never seen a game development team so obsessed with snares.
at least its not obsession with knockbacks/knockdowns like bioware has in swtor.
but back to the topic. something that has been brought up. over and over. but you all keep ignoring it. not everyone plays at the same skill level. not even when they are no longer new. one person's brain dead easy is another person's just challenging enough, is another person's getting a little too difficult. and before you go into the derisive "stop light attack spamming" that is not necessarily the case either - some people are not quick at hitting their abilities, etc etc. because overworld content is the bulk of the game, ZoS has to make it as accessible to as many people as possible.
so by all means, keep asking for difficulty slider. but STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT HOW BRAIN DEAD EASY THE GAME IS. your experience is NOT everyone's experience, its not even experience of most.MasterSpatula wrote: »Everyone was happy when the entire game was scaled.
You don't get to have an entire level-scaled game AND have overland content that's difficult for experienced players. You just don't.
No one is asking for it to be difficult for experinced players, but it would be nice if you could at LEAST pull off 1 rotation before killing an enemy, or if the enemy could , i dunno, use shields or heal themself to prolong the battle. I can use snipe, and if I am lucky poison injection or cliffracer afterward before they are down for the count. No threat what so ever.
here is the problem with this setup. lets assume that as a veteran player, you do 30k dps. average player who looked up the builds and bothered to get at least somewhat decent gear will do maybe 10k dps. a leveling player questing in whatever gear was rewarded to them by quests? is going to do about 5k dps. if you are not seeing where I'm going with this yet, lets do some math.
a full rotation for you = 3 rotations for a max level average lvl 50 player. and 6 rotations for a leveling player. for each. and every. single. mob. now... consider that a lot of them come in pairs. or more. do you see where I'm going with this now?
selective difficulty would be just fine. and btw, people complaining about swtor being easy? have OBVIOUSLY never tried doing chapters on veteran, let alone master. they are anything BUT easy. the problem with swtor is not the difficulty. its the lack of content in general. for the last few years, other then few hours of story here and there, all the other content is basically regearing through the same ops and flashpoints that in case of some of them - were there from launch. THAT is why the game started to lose players. not a mere difficulty. making the story progression far to linear and everything else - nonexistant. little to no content.
1 Rotation takes 5 seconds, so by your math a new player would spend around 30 secnds per mob, that is not asking a lot.Right, so exactly because questing is what TES has been known for, it is important that questing is what remains available to the entire population, i.e. it should remain easy to do.
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to having separate instances for different "difficulties" for quests, but that would only cause a larger divide in ESO's map population. What you are essentially asking for is an offline version of ESO, where you can do your quests at the difficulty you want, without having to give a fudge about the rest of the population. Why not go and play Skyrim instead, or any of the other single player games?
Questing should be like a mini story. And a good fantasy/adventure story should have memorable enemies and an ultimate nemisis encounter to work towards. Killing said enemy in 10-30 seconds with zero chance to fail is not memorable.
And about SWOTR: I loved that game, Sith Juggernaut is still my favorite class in all the MMOs I have played. But SWOTR becoming way to easy is exactly the reason why I no longer play it.
Way to simply not address the rest of my post, lol.
Again, you are ignoring the fact that what is an easy 10-30 second fight for players like you or me could be an agonizing 5-10 minute fight for someone who isn't as well optimized or well versed with the game (or games in general).
You finding it easy is a moot point. As I stated before, difficulty is subjective and cannot (and should not) be used as an objective gauge for content.
If the storyline/difficulty of quests isn't enough for you, then perhaps it'd indeed be a good idea for you to move on to something you find more challenging.
10-30 seconds is being generous, i havent met a overland mob or quest boss that has lasted more than 5 seconds in a very long time.
The actual time is arbitrary. The point still stands.
Let me put it this way, with 98 spell damage, yes, 98, I can kill mobs no issue, and even simulating a lot of mess ups, same. Everyone has more than 98 spell damage. -everyone-.
those 30 seconds add up. surviving a group of those mobs adds up as well. moreover - let me try to reiterate. AGAIN. there are players who do VMA in crafted purples. there are players who can NOT do VMA even when they farm up better sets and gold their gear. what YOU are asking for is not even a bloody toggle. most of us would wecome a difficulty toggle, slider, what have you. you are asking for the entire game to be scaled for players that can do VMA in non optimized purples without realizing, or refusing to see it anyways, that for the rest of us who cannot do VMA - the game will become unplayable.
so yes. it is too much to ask.
Lol wut? 10-20% more difficult is asking to have overland content outside of starting areas be as difficult as veteran maelstrom arena? Where are you even pulling this from, clearly not reality. If you dont have 5 minutes to spend on a dungeon, then you need to stick to priorities, no one is that busy.Let me put it this way, with 98 spell damage, yes, 98, I can kill mobs no issue, and even simulating a lot of mess ups, same. Everyone has more than 98 spell damage. -everyone-.
Yes, which is why quests are currently not much of an issue for most players.
Some delve bosses, however, can cause some troubles to some players.
Your basic damage is 1100 weapon / spell damage, that is ten times what I said, so the content is clearly too easy.Right, so exactly because questing is what TES has been known for, it is important that questing is what remains available to the entire population, i.e. it should remain easy to do.
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to having separate instances for different "difficulties" for quests, but that would only cause a larger divide in ESO's map population. What you are essentially asking for is an offline version of ESO, where you can do your quests at the difficulty you want, without having to give a fudge about the rest of the population. Why not go and play Skyrim instead, or any of the other single player games?
Questing should be like a mini story. And a good fantasy/adventure story should have memorable enemies and an ultimate nemisis encounter to work towards. Killing said enemy in 10-30 seconds with zero chance to fail is not memorable.
And about SWOTR: I loved that game, Sith Juggernaut is still my favorite class in all the MMOs I have played. But SWOTR becoming way to easy is exactly the reason why I no longer play it.
Way to simply not address the rest of my post, lol.
Again, you are ignoring the fact that what is an easy 10-30 second fight for players like you or me could be an agonizing 5-10 minute fight for someone who isn't as well optimized or well versed with the game (or games in general).
You finding it easy is a moot point. As I stated before, difficulty is subjective and cannot (and should not) be used as an objective gauge for content.
If the storyline/difficulty of quests isn't enough for you, then perhaps it'd indeed be a good idea for you to move on to something you find more challenging.
I didn't respond to the rest of your message because you are ignoring what I say which is that I don't want to make the game harder for newer players. I just want options for more veteran players. But, in general, questing should not be easy, it should be challenging but doable, for every type of player. Keeping one set difficulty will make it impossible to please all type of players. They added two different difficulty levels to other PvE content, why not general questing?
And telling people to just leave the game is really, really lame.
You didn't just talk about having more options, though. I responded to the rest of your post point by point.
As I said, I wouldn't necessarily be against having a separate "veteran" map option with more buffed creatures, but that will only further divide the map population.
Throwing a tantrum that overland content, objectively the most accessible and easiest content in all MMOs, being too easy is equally as lame.
Constructive criticism with reasonable compromises is throwing a tantrum? The only people I hear throwing a tantrum are the ones calling us arrogant, and other names for voicing our opinion, which is shared by a lot of people btw, that the overland content is far too easy, and a slight buff to it, especially dlc would only make the game better. Slight buff =/= turning everything to vma levels. I mean really, what is the point of using any gear if you can do the whole game naked pretty much?
becasue its NOT 10-20% more difficult - which you would see if you actualy bothered reading my math. its 6 times as difficult for your average player - as in 600% more difficult, which is what you are asking with you desire to go through full rotation per mob. its not 5 minutes in a dungeon. maybe for you it is, but for most players it would turn into an hour in a dungeon or more. there are still plenty of people who need a group for public dungeons.
I'm bringing up VMA because its a great way to illustrate the skill level divide. some people push scores. other people cannot get past the first boss, heck, yet other people cannot get past the first boss in NORMAL. I was one of those people back before I got very slightly better and you know... got some CP to my name. it was last year actualy, as maelstrom consistently gets recommended as an "easy" way to farm skulls for witches festival with assumption that you can clear each wave in 5 minutes. guess what? most of us CANNOT. I actualy got this game on release. do you know why I quit and didn't come back until just before one tamriel? becasue it. was. TOO HARD. and given that I play with people who are considerably worse then me, all the time? I'm not the only one. far from it. they wouldn't have made the overland content more accessible, if I was. ZOS wants to get as many players as they can.
the ONLY way, the ONLY way making overland content harder could work IS with a map divide. the ONLY compromise here is an optional difficulty slider, NOT making the solo portion of the game virtually inaccessible to the bulk of its players.Edited by Linaleah on November 16, 2017 12:16AMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***3 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »phileunderx2 wrote: »I hate all the ccing too. Especially the mobs with the traps that they can throw a mile away with pinpoint accuracy.
i've never seen a game development team so obsessed with snares.
at least its not obsession with knockbacks/knockdowns like bioware has in swtor.
but back to the topic. something that has been brought up. over and over. but you all keep ignoring it. not everyone plays at the same skill level. not even when they are no longer new. one person's brain dead easy is another person's just challenging enough, is another person's getting a little too difficult. and before you go into the derisive "stop light attack spamming" that is not necessarily the case either - some people are not quick at hitting their abilities, etc etc. because overworld content is the bulk of the game, ZoS has to make it as accessible to as many people as possible.
so by all means, keep asking for difficulty slider. but STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT HOW BRAIN DEAD EASY THE GAME IS. your experience is NOT everyone's experience, its not even experience of most.MasterSpatula wrote: »Everyone was happy when the entire game was scaled.
You don't get to have an entire level-scaled game AND have overland content that's difficult for experienced players. You just don't.
No one is asking for it to be difficult for experinced players, but it would be nice if you could at LEAST pull off 1 rotation before killing an enemy, or if the enemy could , i dunno, use shields or heal themself to prolong the battle. I can use snipe, and if I am lucky poison injection or cliffracer afterward before they are down for the count. No threat what so ever.
here is the problem with this setup. lets assume that as a veteran player, you do 30k dps. average player who looked up the builds and bothered to get at least somewhat decent gear will do maybe 10k dps. a leveling player questing in whatever gear was rewarded to them by quests? is going to do about 5k dps. if you are not seeing where I'm going with this yet, lets do some math.
a full rotation for you = 3 rotations for a max level average lvl 50 player. and 6 rotations for a leveling player. for each. and every. single. mob. now... consider that a lot of them come in pairs. or more. do you see where I'm going with this now?
selective difficulty would be just fine. and btw, people complaining about swtor being easy? have OBVIOUSLY never tried doing chapters on veteran, let alone master. they are anything BUT easy. the problem with swtor is not the difficulty. its the lack of content in general. for the last few years, other then few hours of story here and there, all the other content is basically regearing through the same ops and flashpoints that in case of some of them - were there from launch. THAT is why the game started to lose players. not a mere difficulty. making the story progression far to linear and everything else - nonexistant. little to no content.
1 Rotation takes 5 seconds, so by your math a new player would spend around 30 secnds per mob, that is not asking a lot.Right, so exactly because questing is what TES has been known for, it is important that questing is what remains available to the entire population, i.e. it should remain easy to do.
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to having separate instances for different "difficulties" for quests, but that would only cause a larger divide in ESO's map population. What you are essentially asking for is an offline version of ESO, where you can do your quests at the difficulty you want, without having to give a fudge about the rest of the population. Why not go and play Skyrim instead, or any of the other single player games?
Questing should be like a mini story. And a good fantasy/adventure story should have memorable enemies and an ultimate nemisis encounter to work towards. Killing said enemy in 10-30 seconds with zero chance to fail is not memorable.
And about SWOTR: I loved that game, Sith Juggernaut is still my favorite class in all the MMOs I have played. But SWOTR becoming way to easy is exactly the reason why I no longer play it.
Way to simply not address the rest of my post, lol.
Again, you are ignoring the fact that what is an easy 10-30 second fight for players like you or me could be an agonizing 5-10 minute fight for someone who isn't as well optimized or well versed with the game (or games in general).
You finding it easy is a moot point. As I stated before, difficulty is subjective and cannot (and should not) be used as an objective gauge for content.
If the storyline/difficulty of quests isn't enough for you, then perhaps it'd indeed be a good idea for you to move on to something you find more challenging.
10-30 seconds is being generous, i havent met a overland mob or quest boss that has lasted more than 5 seconds in a very long time.
The actual time is arbitrary. The point still stands.
Let me put it this way, with 98 spell damage, yes, 98, I can kill mobs no issue, and even simulating a lot of mess ups, same. Everyone has more than 98 spell damage. -everyone-.
those 30 seconds add up. surviving a group of those mobs adds up as well. moreover - let me try to reiterate. AGAIN. there are players who do VMA in crafted purples. there are players who can NOT do VMA even when they farm up better sets and gold their gear. what YOU are asking for is not even a bloody toggle. most of us would wecome a difficulty toggle, slider, what have you. you are asking for the entire game to be scaled for players that can do VMA in non optimized purples without realizing, or refusing to see it anyways, that for the rest of us who cannot do VMA - the game will become unplayable.
so yes. it is too much to ask.
Lol wut? 10-20% more difficult is asking to have overland content outside of starting areas be as difficult as veteran maelstrom arena? Where are you even pulling this from, clearly not reality. If you dont have 5 minutes to spend on a dungeon, then you need to stick to priorities, no one is that busy.Let me put it this way, with 98 spell damage, yes, 98, I can kill mobs no issue, and even simulating a lot of mess ups, same. Everyone has more than 98 spell damage. -everyone-.
Yes, which is why quests are currently not much of an issue for most players.
Some delve bosses, however, can cause some troubles to some players.
Your basic damage is 1100 weapon / spell damage, that is ten times what I said, so the content is clearly too easy.Right, so exactly because questing is what TES has been known for, it is important that questing is what remains available to the entire population, i.e. it should remain easy to do.
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to having separate instances for different "difficulties" for quests, but that would only cause a larger divide in ESO's map population. What you are essentially asking for is an offline version of ESO, where you can do your quests at the difficulty you want, without having to give a fudge about the rest of the population. Why not go and play Skyrim instead, or any of the other single player games?
Questing should be like a mini story. And a good fantasy/adventure story should have memorable enemies and an ultimate nemisis encounter to work towards. Killing said enemy in 10-30 seconds with zero chance to fail is not memorable.
And about SWOTR: I loved that game, Sith Juggernaut is still my favorite class in all the MMOs I have played. But SWOTR becoming way to easy is exactly the reason why I no longer play it.
Way to simply not address the rest of my post, lol.
Again, you are ignoring the fact that what is an easy 10-30 second fight for players like you or me could be an agonizing 5-10 minute fight for someone who isn't as well optimized or well versed with the game (or games in general).
You finding it easy is a moot point. As I stated before, difficulty is subjective and cannot (and should not) be used as an objective gauge for content.
If the storyline/difficulty of quests isn't enough for you, then perhaps it'd indeed be a good idea for you to move on to something you find more challenging.
I didn't respond to the rest of your message because you are ignoring what I say which is that I don't want to make the game harder for newer players. I just want options for more veteran players. But, in general, questing should not be easy, it should be challenging but doable, for every type of player. Keeping one set difficulty will make it impossible to please all type of players. They added two different difficulty levels to other PvE content, why not general questing?
And telling people to just leave the game is really, really lame.
You didn't just talk about having more options, though. I responded to the rest of your post point by point.
As I said, I wouldn't necessarily be against having a separate "veteran" map option with more buffed creatures, but that will only further divide the map population.
Throwing a tantrum that overland content, objectively the most accessible and easiest content in all MMOs, being too easy is equally as lame.
Constructive criticism with reasonable compromises is throwing a tantrum? The only people I hear throwing a tantrum are the ones calling us arrogant, and other names for voicing our opinion, which is shared by a lot of people btw, that the overland content is far too easy, and a slight buff to it, especially dlc would only make the game better. Slight buff =/= turning everything to vma levels. I mean really, what is the point of using any gear if you can do the whole game naked pretty much?
You are arrogant.
And selfish.
It wont stop at a small buff. It never does. Your greed will not allow it. You will force out everyone else, as MMO players have done before, and when the game dies you'll ask how did this happen. Enough. You have your difficult content. Leave it be.
Wow, arrogant and selfish for wanting a slight buff to balance the difficulty for a wider range of players. That doesnt even make sense.Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Wow.
He asked for a slight increase and you turn it to "you won't stop there". Also good to know that asking for a tiny bit of difficulty has something to do with greed.
This logic is screwed.
She, but yeah, you are right, the logic just isn't there with the god mode crowd. Its all memememememememe, no comprimise, it has to be their way, or the whole game is going to spontaneously implode in on itself.Edited by Jade1986 on November 16, 2017 12:33AM0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »The needs of the many, outweigh the desires of the few.
The majority of the player base would be harmed by an over-world difficulty increase. Players would flee this game, and their financial support would evaporate with it.
The "many" that I quoted, are the Casual players. The "few"? Those are the small niche-within-a-niche of Players who want the over-world difficulty increased.
But as @Doctordarkspawn said: An increase in over-world difficulty will cause a mass migration away from ESO. It's happened in countless MMORPG's in the past. Once those Players are gone (and their financial support with it), ESO will die. It's already been proven, when other MMO developers have listened to the niche crowd, and ramped up the difficulty of even basic tasks.
And once the game is facing it's final days, those of you who are proponents for this difficulty increase; you'll look around at a game that has fewer and fewer Players per day, you'll wonder why the game is so dead, and why Zeni is facing a server shut down, and you'll wonder why it happened.
This isn't "fear-mongering" or "doomsaying", it's been proven already, with at least five (5) MMORPG's that I know of. They ramped up the difficulty (or even gave it just a slight increase in three [3] of those MMORPG's), and the Casual Players fled the game, and New Players tried out the game, saw that it was too difficult, and they went to play other games. With that financial support and Player Population bleeding out; those MMORPG's had to massively scale down their number of servers, new content was/has become laughably rare, and in most all of those cases, they shut the game(s) down for good. the few that survive to this day, have the smallest fraction of their former Player populations. Those MMO's are dead.
But your desire to have this change (and by proxy, the game as a whole) cater to your specific, niche won't let you see that you would have been the cause of it in yet another MMORPG.
Even a slight increase in over-world difficulty will have disastrous effects on ESO.
IMO, I hope you never get what you want.
Thats funny because I observed the exact opposite in swtor recently. Difficulty decreased an insane amount, devs focused on solo only content, numbers dropped dramatically. No on wants vma difficulty levels for overland, but making you have to actually use your abilities is not asking much.phileunderx2 wrote: »I hate all the ccing too. Especially the mobs with the traps that they can throw a mile away with pinpoint accuracy.
i've never seen a game development team so obsessed with snares.
at least its not obsession with knockbacks/knockdowns like bioware has in swtor.
but back to the topic. something that has been brought up. over and over. but you all keep ignoring it. not everyone plays at the same skill level. not even when they are no longer new. one person's brain dead easy is another person's just challenging enough, is another person's getting a little too difficult. and before you go into the derisive "stop light attack spamming" that is not necessarily the case either - some people are not quick at hitting their abilities, etc etc. because overworld content is the bulk of the game, ZoS has to make it as accessible to as many people as possible.
so by all means, keep asking for difficulty slider. but STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT HOW BRAIN DEAD EASY THE GAME IS. your experience is NOT everyone's experience, its not even experience of most.MasterSpatula wrote: »Everyone was happy when the entire game was scaled.
You don't get to have an entire level-scaled game AND have overland content that's difficult for experienced players. You just don't.
No one is asking for it to be difficult for experinced players, but it would be nice if you could at LEAST pull off 1 rotation before killing an enemy, or if the enemy could , i dunno, use shields or heal themself to prolong the battle. I can use snipe, and if I am lucky poison injection or cliffracer afterward before they are down for the count. No threat what so ever.
here is the problem with this setup. lets assume that as a veteran player, you do 30k dps. average player who looked up the builds and bothered to get at least somewhat decent gear will do maybe 10k dps. a leveling player questing in whatever gear was rewarded to them by quests? is going to do about 5k dps. if you are not seeing where I'm going with this yet, lets do some math.
a full rotation for you = 3 rotations for a max level average lvl 50 player. and 6 rotations for a leveling player. for each. and every. single. mob. now... consider that a lot of them come in pairs. or more. do you see where I'm going with this now?
selective difficulty would be just fine. and btw, people complaining about swtor being easy? have OBVIOUSLY never tried doing chapters on veteran, let alone master. they are anything BUT easy. the problem with swtor is not the difficulty. its the lack of content in general. for the last few years, other then few hours of story here and there, all the other content is basically regearing through the same ops and flashpoints that in case of some of them - were there from launch. THAT is why the game started to lose players. not a mere difficulty. making the story progression far to linear and everything else - nonexistant. little to no content.
1 Rotation takes 5 seconds, so by your math a new player would spend around 30 secnds per mob, that is not asking a lot.Right, so exactly because questing is what TES has been known for, it is important that questing is what remains available to the entire population, i.e. it should remain easy to do.
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to having separate instances for different "difficulties" for quests, but that would only cause a larger divide in ESO's map population. What you are essentially asking for is an offline version of ESO, where you can do your quests at the difficulty you want, without having to give a fudge about the rest of the population. Why not go and play Skyrim instead, or any of the other single player games?
Questing should be like a mini story. And a good fantasy/adventure story should have memorable enemies and an ultimate nemisis encounter to work towards. Killing said enemy in 10-30 seconds with zero chance to fail is not memorable.
And about SWOTR: I loved that game, Sith Juggernaut is still my favorite class in all the MMOs I have played. But SWOTR becoming way to easy is exactly the reason why I no longer play it.
Way to simply not address the rest of my post, lol.
Again, you are ignoring the fact that what is an easy 10-30 second fight for players like you or me could be an agonizing 5-10 minute fight for someone who isn't as well optimized or well versed with the game (or games in general).
You finding it easy is a moot point. As I stated before, difficulty is subjective and cannot (and should not) be used as an objective gauge for content.
If the storyline/difficulty of quests isn't enough for you, then perhaps it'd indeed be a good idea for you to move on to something you find more challenging.
10-30 seconds is being generous, i havent met a overland mob or quest boss that has lasted more than 5 seconds in a very long time.
The actual time is arbitrary. The point still stands.
Let me put it this way, with 98 spell damage, yes, 98, I can kill mobs no issue, and even simulating a lot of mess ups, same. Everyone has more than 98 spell damage. -everyone-.
those 30 seconds add up. surviving a group of those mobs adds up as well. moreover - let me try to reiterate. AGAIN. there are players who do VMA in crafted purples. there are players who can NOT do VMA even when they farm up better sets and gold their gear. what YOU are asking for is not even a bloody toggle. most of us would wecome a difficulty toggle, slider, what have you. you are asking for the entire game to be scaled for players that can do VMA in non optimized purples without realizing, or refusing to see it anyways, that for the rest of us who cannot do VMA - the game will become unplayable.
so yes. it is too much to ask.
Lol wut? 10-20% more difficult is asking to have overland content outside of starting areas be as difficult as veteran maelstrom arena? Where are you even pulling this from, clearly not reality. If you dont have 5 minutes to spend on a dungeon, then you need to stick to priorities, no one is that busy.Let me put it this way, with 98 spell damage, yes, 98, I can kill mobs no issue, and even simulating a lot of mess ups, same. Everyone has more than 98 spell damage. -everyone-.
Yes, which is why quests are currently not much of an issue for most players.
Some delve bosses, however, can cause some troubles to some players.
Your basic damage is 1100 weapon / spell damage, that is ten times what I said, so the content is clearly too easy.Right, so exactly because questing is what TES has been known for, it is important that questing is what remains available to the entire population, i.e. it should remain easy to do.
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to having separate instances for different "difficulties" for quests, but that would only cause a larger divide in ESO's map population. What you are essentially asking for is an offline version of ESO, where you can do your quests at the difficulty you want, without having to give a fudge about the rest of the population. Why not go and play Skyrim instead, or any of the other single player games?
Questing should be like a mini story. And a good fantasy/adventure story should have memorable enemies and an ultimate nemisis encounter to work towards. Killing said enemy in 10-30 seconds with zero chance to fail is not memorable.
And about SWOTR: I loved that game, Sith Juggernaut is still my favorite class in all the MMOs I have played. But SWOTR becoming way to easy is exactly the reason why I no longer play it.
Way to simply not address the rest of my post, lol.
Again, you are ignoring the fact that what is an easy 10-30 second fight for players like you or me could be an agonizing 5-10 minute fight for someone who isn't as well optimized or well versed with the game (or games in general).
You finding it easy is a moot point. As I stated before, difficulty is subjective and cannot (and should not) be used as an objective gauge for content.
If the storyline/difficulty of quests isn't enough for you, then perhaps it'd indeed be a good idea for you to move on to something you find more challenging.
I didn't respond to the rest of your message because you are ignoring what I say which is that I don't want to make the game harder for newer players. I just want options for more veteran players. But, in general, questing should not be easy, it should be challenging but doable, for every type of player. Keeping one set difficulty will make it impossible to please all type of players. They added two different difficulty levels to other PvE content, why not general questing?
And telling people to just leave the game is really, really lame.
You didn't just talk about having more options, though. I responded to the rest of your post point by point.
As I said, I wouldn't necessarily be against having a separate "veteran" map option with more buffed creatures, but that will only further divide the map population.
Throwing a tantrum that overland content, objectively the most accessible and easiest content in all MMOs, being too easy is equally as lame.
Constructive criticism with reasonable compromises is throwing a tantrum? The only people I hear throwing a tantrum are the ones calling us arrogant, and other names for voicing our opinion, which is shared by a lot of people btw, that the overland content is far too easy, and a slight buff to it, especially dlc would only make the game better. Slight buff =/= turning everything to vma levels. I mean really, what is the point of using any gear if you can do the whole game naked pretty much?
becasue its NOT 10-20% more difficult - which you would see if you actualy bothered reading my math. its 6 times as difficult for your average player - as in 600% more difficult, which is what you are asking with you desire to go through full rotation per mob. its not 5 minutes in a dungeon. maybe for you it is, but for most players it would turn into an hour in a dungeon or more. there are still plenty of people who need a group for public dungeons.
I'm bringing up VMA because its a great way to illustrate the skill level divide. some people push scores. other people cannot get past the first boss, heck, yet other people cannot get past the first boss in NORMAL. I was one of those people back before I got very slightly better and you know... got some CP to my name. it was last year actualy, as maelstrom consistently gets recommended as an "easy" way to farm skulls for witches festival with assumption that you can clear each wave in 5 minutes. guess what? most of us CANNOT. I actualy got this game on release. do you know why I quit and didn't come back until just before one tamriel? becasue it. was. TOO HARD. and given that I play with people who are considerably worse then me, all the time? I'm not the only one. far from it. they wouldn't have made the overland content more accessible, if I was. ZOS wants to get as many players as they can.
the ONLY way, the ONLY way making overland content harder could work IS with a map divide. the ONLY compromise here is an optional difficulty slider, NOT making the solo portion of the game virtually inaccessible to the bulk of its players.
Just for your information, I have never done vma or most vet dungeons , because I find them too difficult, so your assumption that I am some sort of player that never does anything but min max in this game is dead wrong. So , please, try again. The only people throwing around major assumptions and tantrums are you guys.
As for it being too hard for the bulk of the players. I think in the entire 3 years I have played this game, I can count on one hand how many people I saw dead or that have asked for help in overland bosses. Conclusion? Our experiences are bias which is why a comprimise should be reached and there should be a happy medium, not this " my opinion is the only opinion that is the opinion of everyone and any comprimise would cause the game to implode in on itself " attitude.Edited by Jade1986 on November 16, 2017 12:35AM0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »The needs of the many, outweigh the desires of the few.
The majority of the player base would be harmed by an over-world difficulty increase. Players would flee this game, and their financial support would evaporate with it.
The "many" that I quoted, are the Casual players. The "few"? Those are the small niche-within-a-niche of Players who want the over-world difficulty increased.
But as @Doctordarkspawn said: An increase in over-world difficulty will cause a mass migration away from ESO. It's happened in countless MMORPG's in the past. Once those Players are gone (and their financial support with it), ESO will die. It's already been proven, when other MMO developers have listened to the niche crowd, and ramped up the difficulty of even basic tasks.
And once the game is facing it's final days, those of you who are proponents for this difficulty increase; you'll look around at a game that has fewer and fewer Players per day, you'll wonder why the game is so dead, and why Zeni is facing a server shut down, and you'll wonder why it happened.
This isn't "fear-mongering" or "doomsaying", it's been proven already, with at least five (5) MMORPG's that I know of. They ramped up the difficulty (or even gave it just a slight increase in three [3] of those MMORPG's), and the Casual Players fled the game, and New Players tried out the game, saw that it was too difficult, and they went to play other games. With that financial support and Player Population bleeding out; those MMORPG's had to massively scale down their number of servers, new content was/has become laughably rare, and in most all of those cases, they shut the game(s) down for good. the few that survive to this day, have the smallest fraction of their former Player populations. Those MMO's are dead.
But your desire to have this change (and by proxy, the game as a whole) cater to your specific, niche won't let you see that you would have been the cause of it in yet another MMORPG.
Even a slight increase in over-world difficulty will have disastrous effects on ESO.
IMO, I hope you never get what you want.
Thats funny because I observed the exact opposite in swtor recently. Difficulty decreased an insane amount, devs focused on solo only content, numbers dropped dramatically. No on wants vma difficulty levels for overland, but making you have to actually use your abilities is not asking much.phileunderx2 wrote: »I hate all the ccing too. Especially the mobs with the traps that they can throw a mile away with pinpoint accuracy.
i've never seen a game development team so obsessed with snares.
at least its not obsession with knockbacks/knockdowns like bioware has in swtor.
but back to the topic. something that has been brought up. over and over. but you all keep ignoring it. not everyone plays at the same skill level. not even when they are no longer new. one person's brain dead easy is another person's just challenging enough, is another person's getting a little too difficult. and before you go into the derisive "stop light attack spamming" that is not necessarily the case either - some people are not quick at hitting their abilities, etc etc. because overworld content is the bulk of the game, ZoS has to make it as accessible to as many people as possible.
so by all means, keep asking for difficulty slider. but STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT HOW BRAIN DEAD EASY THE GAME IS. your experience is NOT everyone's experience, its not even experience of most.MasterSpatula wrote: »Everyone was happy when the entire game was scaled.
You don't get to have an entire level-scaled game AND have overland content that's difficult for experienced players. You just don't.
No one is asking for it to be difficult for experinced players, but it would be nice if you could at LEAST pull off 1 rotation before killing an enemy, or if the enemy could , i dunno, use shields or heal themself to prolong the battle. I can use snipe, and if I am lucky poison injection or cliffracer afterward before they are down for the count. No threat what so ever.
here is the problem with this setup. lets assume that as a veteran player, you do 30k dps. average player who looked up the builds and bothered to get at least somewhat decent gear will do maybe 10k dps. a leveling player questing in whatever gear was rewarded to them by quests? is going to do about 5k dps. if you are not seeing where I'm going with this yet, lets do some math.
a full rotation for you = 3 rotations for a max level average lvl 50 player. and 6 rotations for a leveling player. for each. and every. single. mob. now... consider that a lot of them come in pairs. or more. do you see where I'm going with this now?
selective difficulty would be just fine. and btw, people complaining about swtor being easy? have OBVIOUSLY never tried doing chapters on veteran, let alone master. they are anything BUT easy. the problem with swtor is not the difficulty. its the lack of content in general. for the last few years, other then few hours of story here and there, all the other content is basically regearing through the same ops and flashpoints that in case of some of them - were there from launch. THAT is why the game started to lose players. not a mere difficulty. making the story progression far to linear and everything else - nonexistant. little to no content.
1 Rotation takes 5 seconds, so by your math a new player would spend around 30 secnds per mob, that is not asking a lot.Right, so exactly because questing is what TES has been known for, it is important that questing is what remains available to the entire population, i.e. it should remain easy to do.
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to having separate instances for different "difficulties" for quests, but that would only cause a larger divide in ESO's map population. What you are essentially asking for is an offline version of ESO, where you can do your quests at the difficulty you want, without having to give a fudge about the rest of the population. Why not go and play Skyrim instead, or any of the other single player games?
Questing should be like a mini story. And a good fantasy/adventure story should have memorable enemies and an ultimate nemisis encounter to work towards. Killing said enemy in 10-30 seconds with zero chance to fail is not memorable.
And about SWOTR: I loved that game, Sith Juggernaut is still my favorite class in all the MMOs I have played. But SWOTR becoming way to easy is exactly the reason why I no longer play it.
Way to simply not address the rest of my post, lol.
Again, you are ignoring the fact that what is an easy 10-30 second fight for players like you or me could be an agonizing 5-10 minute fight for someone who isn't as well optimized or well versed with the game (or games in general).
You finding it easy is a moot point. As I stated before, difficulty is subjective and cannot (and should not) be used as an objective gauge for content.
If the storyline/difficulty of quests isn't enough for you, then perhaps it'd indeed be a good idea for you to move on to something you find more challenging.
10-30 seconds is being generous, i havent met a overland mob or quest boss that has lasted more than 5 seconds in a very long time.
The actual time is arbitrary. The point still stands.
Let me put it this way, with 98 spell damage, yes, 98, I can kill mobs no issue, and even simulating a lot of mess ups, same. Everyone has more than 98 spell damage. -everyone-.
those 30 seconds add up. surviving a group of those mobs adds up as well. moreover - let me try to reiterate. AGAIN. there are players who do VMA in crafted purples. there are players who can NOT do VMA even when they farm up better sets and gold their gear. what YOU are asking for is not even a bloody toggle. most of us would wecome a difficulty toggle, slider, what have you. you are asking for the entire game to be scaled for players that can do VMA in non optimized purples without realizing, or refusing to see it anyways, that for the rest of us who cannot do VMA - the game will become unplayable.
so yes. it is too much to ask.
Lol wut? 10-20% more difficult is asking to have overland content outside of starting areas be as difficult as veteran maelstrom arena? Where are you even pulling this from, clearly not reality. If you dont have 5 minutes to spend on a dungeon, then you need to stick to priorities, no one is that busy.Let me put it this way, with 98 spell damage, yes, 98, I can kill mobs no issue, and even simulating a lot of mess ups, same. Everyone has more than 98 spell damage. -everyone-.
Yes, which is why quests are currently not much of an issue for most players.
Some delve bosses, however, can cause some troubles to some players.
Your basic damage is 1100 weapon / spell damage, that is ten times what I said, so the content is clearly too easy.Right, so exactly because questing is what TES has been known for, it is important that questing is what remains available to the entire population, i.e. it should remain easy to do.
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to having separate instances for different "difficulties" for quests, but that would only cause a larger divide in ESO's map population. What you are essentially asking for is an offline version of ESO, where you can do your quests at the difficulty you want, without having to give a fudge about the rest of the population. Why not go and play Skyrim instead, or any of the other single player games?
Questing should be like a mini story. And a good fantasy/adventure story should have memorable enemies and an ultimate nemisis encounter to work towards. Killing said enemy in 10-30 seconds with zero chance to fail is not memorable.
And about SWOTR: I loved that game, Sith Juggernaut is still my favorite class in all the MMOs I have played. But SWOTR becoming way to easy is exactly the reason why I no longer play it.
Way to simply not address the rest of my post, lol.
Again, you are ignoring the fact that what is an easy 10-30 second fight for players like you or me could be an agonizing 5-10 minute fight for someone who isn't as well optimized or well versed with the game (or games in general).
You finding it easy is a moot point. As I stated before, difficulty is subjective and cannot (and should not) be used as an objective gauge for content.
If the storyline/difficulty of quests isn't enough for you, then perhaps it'd indeed be a good idea for you to move on to something you find more challenging.
I didn't respond to the rest of your message because you are ignoring what I say which is that I don't want to make the game harder for newer players. I just want options for more veteran players. But, in general, questing should not be easy, it should be challenging but doable, for every type of player. Keeping one set difficulty will make it impossible to please all type of players. They added two different difficulty levels to other PvE content, why not general questing?
And telling people to just leave the game is really, really lame.
You didn't just talk about having more options, though. I responded to the rest of your post point by point.
As I said, I wouldn't necessarily be against having a separate "veteran" map option with more buffed creatures, but that will only further divide the map population.
Throwing a tantrum that overland content, objectively the most accessible and easiest content in all MMOs, being too easy is equally as lame.
Constructive criticism with reasonable compromises is throwing a tantrum? The only people I hear throwing a tantrum are the ones calling us arrogant, and other names for voicing our opinion, which is shared by a lot of people btw, that the overland content is far too easy, and a slight buff to it, especially dlc would only make the game better. Slight buff =/= turning everything to vma levels. I mean really, what is the point of using any gear if you can do the whole game naked pretty much?
becasue its NOT 10-20% more difficult - which you would see if you actualy bothered reading my math. its 6 times as difficult for your average player - as in 600% more difficult, which is what you are asking with you desire to go through full rotation per mob. its not 5 minutes in a dungeon. maybe for you it is, but for most players it would turn into an hour in a dungeon or more. there are still plenty of people who need a group for public dungeons.
I'm bringing up VMA because its a great way to illustrate the skill level divide. some people push scores. other people cannot get past the first boss, heck, yet other people cannot get past the first boss in NORMAL. I was one of those people back before I got very slightly better and you know... got some CP to my name. it was last year actualy, as maelstrom consistently gets recommended as an "easy" way to farm skulls for witches festival with assumption that you can clear each wave in 5 minutes. guess what? most of us CANNOT. I actualy got this game on release. do you know why I quit and didn't come back until just before one tamriel? becasue it. was. TOO HARD. and given that I play with people who are considerably worse then me, all the time? I'm not the only one. far from it. they wouldn't have made the overland content more accessible, if I was. ZOS wants to get as many players as they can.
the ONLY way, the ONLY way making overland content harder could work IS with a map divide. the ONLY compromise here is an optional difficulty slider, NOT making the solo portion of the game virtually inaccessible to the bulk of its players.
Just for your information, I have never done vma or most vet dungeons , because I find them too difficult, so your assumption that I am some sort of player that never does anything but min max in this game is dead wrong. So , please, try again. The only people throwing around major assumptions and tantrums are you guys.
no, you just don't want newer players to be able to play through DLC's because... reasons? 10% buff is not going to let you go through full rotation. your words about full rotation, not mine.
basic around the world trash is supposed to be easy. its supposed to die fast.
funny story. I went into clockwork city on a lowbie alt of mine, on an alt account, wearing whatever random drops she go on her way to lvl 13 - no cp. some of those factotums? got her pretty darn low on health and thank goodness she is a templar with built in early to get heal. i didn't die. but i didn't exactly coast through either.
the difficulty. is. FINE. 20% won't make a difference to you - it will still feel too easy and you will still not be able to go through your full rotation, but it will make a difference to a new character that survived with 10% of their health left by the time the mobs died. yes. that happens, especially when you face 2 or more mobs at a time which is standard.
and the fact that you are so very resistant to a compromise of a difficulty slider? tells me everything I need to know about your selfish and arrogant demands.
and once again. swtor population didn't drop becasue of the decreased difficulty. it dropped because other then 1 hour of VERY linear story here and there? there was. NO. NEW. CONTENT. of any kind. the only reason they didn't completely crash and burn is because story loving casual new players are LOVING it.Edited by Linaleah on November 16, 2017 12:39AMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***3 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »The needs of the many, outweigh the desires of the few.
The majority of the player base would be harmed by an over-world difficulty increase. Players would flee this game, and their financial support would evaporate with it.
The "many" that I quoted, are the Casual players. The "few"? Those are the small niche-within-a-niche of Players who want the over-world difficulty increased.
But as @Doctordarkspawn said: An increase in over-world difficulty will cause a mass migration away from ESO. It's happened in countless MMORPG's in the past. Once those Players are gone (and their financial support with it), ESO will die. It's already been proven, when other MMO developers have listened to the niche crowd, and ramped up the difficulty of even basic tasks.
And once the game is facing it's final days, those of you who are proponents for this difficulty increase; you'll look around at a game that has fewer and fewer Players per day, you'll wonder why the game is so dead, and why Zeni is facing a server shut down, and you'll wonder why it happened.
This isn't "fear-mongering" or "doomsaying", it's been proven already, with at least five (5) MMORPG's that I know of. They ramped up the difficulty (or even gave it just a slight increase in three [3] of those MMORPG's), and the Casual Players fled the game, and New Players tried out the game, saw that it was too difficult, and they went to play other games. With that financial support and Player Population bleeding out; those MMORPG's had to massively scale down their number of servers, new content was/has become laughably rare, and in most all of those cases, they shut the game(s) down for good. the few that survive to this day, have the smallest fraction of their former Player populations. Those MMO's are dead.
But your desire to have this change (and by proxy, the game as a whole) cater to your specific, niche won't let you see that you would have been the cause of it in yet another MMORPG.
Even a slight increase in over-world difficulty will have disastrous effects on ESO.
IMO, I hope you never get what you want.
Thats funny because I observed the exact opposite in swtor recently. Difficulty decreased an insane amount, devs focused on solo only content, numbers dropped dramatically. No on wants vma difficulty levels for overland, but making you have to actually use your abilities is not asking much.phileunderx2 wrote: »I hate all the ccing too. Especially the mobs with the traps that they can throw a mile away with pinpoint accuracy.
i've never seen a game development team so obsessed with snares.
at least its not obsession with knockbacks/knockdowns like bioware has in swtor.
but back to the topic. something that has been brought up. over and over. but you all keep ignoring it. not everyone plays at the same skill level. not even when they are no longer new. one person's brain dead easy is another person's just challenging enough, is another person's getting a little too difficult. and before you go into the derisive "stop light attack spamming" that is not necessarily the case either - some people are not quick at hitting their abilities, etc etc. because overworld content is the bulk of the game, ZoS has to make it as accessible to as many people as possible.
so by all means, keep asking for difficulty slider. but STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT HOW BRAIN DEAD EASY THE GAME IS. your experience is NOT everyone's experience, its not even experience of most.MasterSpatula wrote: »Everyone was happy when the entire game was scaled.
You don't get to have an entire level-scaled game AND have overland content that's difficult for experienced players. You just don't.
No one is asking for it to be difficult for experinced players, but it would be nice if you could at LEAST pull off 1 rotation before killing an enemy, or if the enemy could , i dunno, use shields or heal themself to prolong the battle. I can use snipe, and if I am lucky poison injection or cliffracer afterward before they are down for the count. No threat what so ever.
here is the problem with this setup. lets assume that as a veteran player, you do 30k dps. average player who looked up the builds and bothered to get at least somewhat decent gear will do maybe 10k dps. a leveling player questing in whatever gear was rewarded to them by quests? is going to do about 5k dps. if you are not seeing where I'm going with this yet, lets do some math.
a full rotation for you = 3 rotations for a max level average lvl 50 player. and 6 rotations for a leveling player. for each. and every. single. mob. now... consider that a lot of them come in pairs. or more. do you see where I'm going with this now?
selective difficulty would be just fine. and btw, people complaining about swtor being easy? have OBVIOUSLY never tried doing chapters on veteran, let alone master. they are anything BUT easy. the problem with swtor is not the difficulty. its the lack of content in general. for the last few years, other then few hours of story here and there, all the other content is basically regearing through the same ops and flashpoints that in case of some of them - were there from launch. THAT is why the game started to lose players. not a mere difficulty. making the story progression far to linear and everything else - nonexistant. little to no content.
1 Rotation takes 5 seconds, so by your math a new player would spend around 30 secnds per mob, that is not asking a lot.Right, so exactly because questing is what TES has been known for, it is important that questing is what remains available to the entire population, i.e. it should remain easy to do.
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to having separate instances for different "difficulties" for quests, but that would only cause a larger divide in ESO's map population. What you are essentially asking for is an offline version of ESO, where you can do your quests at the difficulty you want, without having to give a fudge about the rest of the population. Why not go and play Skyrim instead, or any of the other single player games?
Questing should be like a mini story. And a good fantasy/adventure story should have memorable enemies and an ultimate nemisis encounter to work towards. Killing said enemy in 10-30 seconds with zero chance to fail is not memorable.
And about SWOTR: I loved that game, Sith Juggernaut is still my favorite class in all the MMOs I have played. But SWOTR becoming way to easy is exactly the reason why I no longer play it.
Way to simply not address the rest of my post, lol.
Again, you are ignoring the fact that what is an easy 10-30 second fight for players like you or me could be an agonizing 5-10 minute fight for someone who isn't as well optimized or well versed with the game (or games in general).
You finding it easy is a moot point. As I stated before, difficulty is subjective and cannot (and should not) be used as an objective gauge for content.
If the storyline/difficulty of quests isn't enough for you, then perhaps it'd indeed be a good idea for you to move on to something you find more challenging.
10-30 seconds is being generous, i havent met a overland mob or quest boss that has lasted more than 5 seconds in a very long time.
The actual time is arbitrary. The point still stands.
Let me put it this way, with 98 spell damage, yes, 98, I can kill mobs no issue, and even simulating a lot of mess ups, same. Everyone has more than 98 spell damage. -everyone-.
those 30 seconds add up. surviving a group of those mobs adds up as well. moreover - let me try to reiterate. AGAIN. there are players who do VMA in crafted purples. there are players who can NOT do VMA even when they farm up better sets and gold their gear. what YOU are asking for is not even a bloody toggle. most of us would wecome a difficulty toggle, slider, what have you. you are asking for the entire game to be scaled for players that can do VMA in non optimized purples without realizing, or refusing to see it anyways, that for the rest of us who cannot do VMA - the game will become unplayable.
so yes. it is too much to ask.
Lol wut? 10-20% more difficult is asking to have overland content outside of starting areas be as difficult as veteran maelstrom arena? Where are you even pulling this from, clearly not reality. If you dont have 5 minutes to spend on a dungeon, then you need to stick to priorities, no one is that busy.Let me put it this way, with 98 spell damage, yes, 98, I can kill mobs no issue, and even simulating a lot of mess ups, same. Everyone has more than 98 spell damage. -everyone-.
Yes, which is why quests are currently not much of an issue for most players.
Some delve bosses, however, can cause some troubles to some players.
Your basic damage is 1100 weapon / spell damage, that is ten times what I said, so the content is clearly too easy.Right, so exactly because questing is what TES has been known for, it is important that questing is what remains available to the entire population, i.e. it should remain easy to do.
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to having separate instances for different "difficulties" for quests, but that would only cause a larger divide in ESO's map population. What you are essentially asking for is an offline version of ESO, where you can do your quests at the difficulty you want, without having to give a fudge about the rest of the population. Why not go and play Skyrim instead, or any of the other single player games?
Questing should be like a mini story. And a good fantasy/adventure story should have memorable enemies and an ultimate nemisis encounter to work towards. Killing said enemy in 10-30 seconds with zero chance to fail is not memorable.
And about SWOTR: I loved that game, Sith Juggernaut is still my favorite class in all the MMOs I have played. But SWOTR becoming way to easy is exactly the reason why I no longer play it.
Way to simply not address the rest of my post, lol.
Again, you are ignoring the fact that what is an easy 10-30 second fight for players like you or me could be an agonizing 5-10 minute fight for someone who isn't as well optimized or well versed with the game (or games in general).
You finding it easy is a moot point. As I stated before, difficulty is subjective and cannot (and should not) be used as an objective gauge for content.
If the storyline/difficulty of quests isn't enough for you, then perhaps it'd indeed be a good idea for you to move on to something you find more challenging.
I didn't respond to the rest of your message because you are ignoring what I say which is that I don't want to make the game harder for newer players. I just want options for more veteran players. But, in general, questing should not be easy, it should be challenging but doable, for every type of player. Keeping one set difficulty will make it impossible to please all type of players. They added two different difficulty levels to other PvE content, why not general questing?
And telling people to just leave the game is really, really lame.
You didn't just talk about having more options, though. I responded to the rest of your post point by point.
As I said, I wouldn't necessarily be against having a separate "veteran" map option with more buffed creatures, but that will only further divide the map population.
Throwing a tantrum that overland content, objectively the most accessible and easiest content in all MMOs, being too easy is equally as lame.
Constructive criticism with reasonable compromises is throwing a tantrum? The only people I hear throwing a tantrum are the ones calling us arrogant, and other names for voicing our opinion, which is shared by a lot of people btw, that the overland content is far too easy, and a slight buff to it, especially dlc would only make the game better. Slight buff =/= turning everything to vma levels. I mean really, what is the point of using any gear if you can do the whole game naked pretty much?
becasue its NOT 10-20% more difficult - which you would see if you actualy bothered reading my math. its 6 times as difficult for your average player - as in 600% more difficult, which is what you are asking with you desire to go through full rotation per mob. its not 5 minutes in a dungeon. maybe for you it is, but for most players it would turn into an hour in a dungeon or more. there are still plenty of people who need a group for public dungeons.
I'm bringing up VMA because its a great way to illustrate the skill level divide. some people push scores. other people cannot get past the first boss, heck, yet other people cannot get past the first boss in NORMAL. I was one of those people back before I got very slightly better and you know... got some CP to my name. it was last year actualy, as maelstrom consistently gets recommended as an "easy" way to farm skulls for witches festival with assumption that you can clear each wave in 5 minutes. guess what? most of us CANNOT. I actualy got this game on release. do you know why I quit and didn't come back until just before one tamriel? becasue it. was. TOO HARD. and given that I play with people who are considerably worse then me, all the time? I'm not the only one. far from it. they wouldn't have made the overland content more accessible, if I was. ZOS wants to get as many players as they can.
the ONLY way, the ONLY way making overland content harder could work IS with a map divide. the ONLY compromise here is an optional difficulty slider, NOT making the solo portion of the game virtually inaccessible to the bulk of its players.
Just for your information, I have never done vma or most vet dungeons , because I find them too difficult, so your assumption that I am some sort of player that never does anything but min max in this game is dead wrong. So , please, try again. The only people throwing around major assumptions and tantrums are you guys.
no, you just don't want newer players to be able to play through DLC's because... reasons? 10% buff is not going to let you go through full rotation. your words about full rotation, not mine.
basic around the world trash is supposed to be easy. its supposed to die fast.
funny story. I went into clockwork city on a lowbie alt of mine, on an alt account, wearing whatever random drops she go on her way to lvl 13 - no cp. some of those factotums? got her pretty darn low on health and thank goodness she is a templar with built in early to get heal. i didn't die. but i didn't exactly coast through either.
the difficulty. is. FINE. 20% won't make a difference to you - it will still feel too easy and you will still not be able to go through your full rotation, but it will make a difference to a new character that survived with 10% of their health left by the time the mobs died. yes. that happens, especially when you face 2 or more mobs at a time which is standard.
and the fact that you are so very resistant to a compromise of a difficulty slider? tells me everything I need to know about your selfish and arrogant demands.
Where on earth did I say I was against a difficulty slider, I would like for you to quote me where I said that. So stop putting words in my mouth, and once again making assumptions trying to make me out to be a monster.
The fact is, a difficulty slider will never -ever- happen in an mmo, far too many new calculations would have to be made and this game already suffers performance issues. As for a new instance with veteran only crowds, that, like others have already said would be a barren wasteland because noone wants vet only mobs. All I have said is there should be a small buff in difficulty so new players actually are challenged ( because there is none at the moment, you can do overland and dlc content with no gear, no cp, no points into stam or magicka, with your 3 basic attacks ) and vet players actually get to do more than one attack. And since I said that, you guys have decided to crucify me for having having an opinion that would be attractive to a wider portion of the playerbase. Not just new players, and not just vet players, and not just the players in between. -everyone- . But please tell the person that wants a comprimise that she is arrogant and selfish a little more. Go ahead.0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭And to demonstrate, I will post a video in a bit, lvl 7, with absolute garbage gear, no drinks, no pots, in CwC, no cp, and only a tiny bit of magicka allocated. And you are seriously telling me this isnt too easy? O.o
0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭And to demonstrate, I will post a video in a bit, lvl 7, with absolute garbage gear, no drinks, no pots, in CwC, no cp, and only a tiny bit of magicka allocated. And you are seriously telling me this isnt too easy? O.o
yes, I'm seriously telling you that this isn't too easy. yes I'm seriously telling you that if difficulty slider isn't happening - and if by your claim veteran zones stay empty? the difficulty has to stay where it is.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭And to demonstrate, I will post a video in a bit, lvl 7, with absolute garbage gear, no drinks, no pots, in CwC, no cp, and only a tiny bit of magicka allocated. And you are seriously telling me this isnt too easy? O.o
yes, I'm seriously telling you that this isn't too easy. yes I'm seriously telling you that if difficulty slider isn't happening - and if by your claim veteran zones stay empty? the difficulty has to stay where it is.
Right, 10 minuts till video.0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭And to demonstrate, I will post a video in a bit, lvl 7, with absolute garbage gear, no drinks, no pots, in CwC, no cp, and only a tiny bit of magicka allocated. And you are seriously telling me this isnt too easy? O.o
yes, I'm seriously telling you that this isn't too easy. yes I'm seriously telling you that if difficulty slider isn't happening - and if by your claim veteran zones stay empty? the difficulty has to stay where it is.
Right, 10 minuts till video.
honestly? i don't care. you can get through the content and not die. THIS IS NOT A BAD THING. being able to get through the content without dying constantly or being on the verge of dying is NOT a bad thing. you happen to think CWC is too easy. and I happen to think its just right. and the only way for use to get what we both want is a difficulty slide which you while claiming you are fine with, also make up excuses why it would never happen, EVEN THOUGH THIS VERY GAME ORIGINALLY CAME WITH A DIFFICULTY SLIDER. so its already built into the system. which tells me you don't actualy want difficulty slider.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭And to demonstrate, I will post a video in a bit, lvl 7, with absolute garbage gear, no drinks, no pots, in CwC, no cp, and only a tiny bit of magicka allocated. And you are seriously telling me this isnt too easy? O.o
yes, I'm seriously telling you that this isn't too easy. yes I'm seriously telling you that if difficulty slider isn't happening - and if by your claim veteran zones stay empty? the difficulty has to stay where it is.
Right, 10 minuts till video.
honestly? i don't care. you can get through the content and not die. THIS IS NOT A BAD THING. being able to get through the content without dying constantly or being on the verge of dying is NOT a bad thing. you happen to think CWC is too easy. and I happen to think its just right. and the only way for use to get what we both want is a difficulty slide which you while claiming you are fine with, also make up excuses why it would never happen, EVEN THOUGH THIS VERY GAME ORIGINALLY CAME WITH A DIFFICULTY SLIDER. so its already built into the system. which tells me you don't actualy want difficulty slider.
I would be totally cool with a difficulty slider, and if there was one originally built in, I was unaware, instead of throwing a tantrum at me and putting me up on the cross, maybe explain, and provide proof of said slider and its former existance.0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭And to demonstrate, I will post a video in a bit, lvl 7, with absolute garbage gear, no drinks, no pots, in CwC, no cp, and only a tiny bit of magicka allocated. And you are seriously telling me this isnt too easy? O.o
yes, I'm seriously telling you that this isn't too easy. yes I'm seriously telling you that if difficulty slider isn't happening - and if by your claim veteran zones stay empty? the difficulty has to stay where it is.
Right, 10 minuts till video.
honestly? i don't care. you can get through the content and not die. THIS IS NOT A BAD THING. being able to get through the content without dying constantly or being on the verge of dying is NOT a bad thing. you happen to think CWC is too easy. and I happen to think its just right. and the only way for use to get what we both want is a difficulty slide which you while claiming you are fine with, also make up excuses why it would never happen, EVEN THOUGH THIS VERY GAME ORIGINALLY CAME WITH A DIFFICULTY SLIDER. so its already built into the system. which tells me you don't actualy want difficulty slider.
I would be totally cool with a difficulty slider, and if there was one originally built in, I was unaware, instead of throwing a tantrum at me and putting me up on the cross, maybe explain, and provide proof of said slider and its former existance.
and maybe before you make claims and excuses about how difficulty slider is impossible to brush it off in order to push overall increased difficulty - you could do some research?
originally, before they switched to cp system only and eventually one tamriel - while leveling you only had acess to your own faction zones. you had to finish faction story, to do Cadwell's silver and gold, aka stories of other factions. silver and gold are still in game, but its no longer necessary to do them, to acess other faction zones. but what they also did is made those zones progressively more difficult. as in each overworld zone came in 3 difficulties. veteran as a difficulty still exists for dungeons and trials. but all zones are now normalized in order to open them up ala prior elder scrolls games where once you do the tutorial, you could do anything - anywhere.
moreover, speaking of remnants of difficulty sliders. in veteran dungeons, there exists a mechanic on a lst boss where by clicking a scroll on the ground? you make that boss harder. its what's known as hard mode.
in some fashion, difficulty sliders are still in game. and there used to be more of them. but .... even before one tamriel, ESO was nerfed. again and again. because it was losing players. most people don't actualy want harder. well unless they can show off how much better they are then other people, just becasue they completed something on harder difficulty. otherwise, developers wouldn't need to keep adding extra rewards for doing things on harder difficulty.Edited by Linaleah on November 16, 2017 1:27AMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭And to demonstrate, I will post a video in a bit, lvl 7, with absolute garbage gear, no drinks, no pots, in CwC, no cp, and only a tiny bit of magicka allocated. And you are seriously telling me this isnt too easy? O.o
yes, I'm seriously telling you that this isn't too easy. yes I'm seriously telling you that if difficulty slider isn't happening - and if by your claim veteran zones stay empty? the difficulty has to stay where it is.
Right, 10 minuts till video.
honestly? i don't care. you can get through the content and not die. THIS IS NOT A BAD THING. being able to get through the content without dying constantly or being on the verge of dying is NOT a bad thing. you happen to think CWC is too easy. and I happen to think its just right. and the only way for use to get what we both want is a difficulty slide which you while claiming you are fine with, also make up excuses why it would never happen, EVEN THOUGH THIS VERY GAME ORIGINALLY CAME WITH A DIFFICULTY SLIDER. so its already built into the system. which tells me you don't actualy want difficulty slider.
I would be totally cool with a difficulty slider, and if there was one originally built in, I was unaware, instead of throwing a tantrum at me and putting me up on the cross, maybe explain, and provide proof of said slider and its former existance.
and maybe before you make claims and excuses about how difficulty slider is impossible to brush it off in order to push overall increased difficulty - you could do some research?
originally, before they switched to cp system only and eventually one tamriel - while leveling you only had acess to your own faction zones. you had to finish faction story, to do Cadwell's silver and gold, aka stories of other factions. silver and gold are still in game, but its no longer necessary to do them, to acess other faction zones. but what they also did is made those zones progressively more difficult. as in each overworld zone came in 3 difficulties. veteran as a difficulty still exists for dungeons and trials. but all zones are now normalized in order to open them up ala prior elder scrolls games where once you do the tutorial, you could do anything - anywhere.
moreover, speaking of remnants of difficulty sliders. in veteran dungeons, there exists a mechanic on a lst boss where by clicking a scroll on the ground? you make that boss harder. its what's known as hard mode.
in some fashion, difficulty sliders are still in game. and there used to be more of them. but .... even before one tamriel, ESO was nerfed. again and again. because it was losing players. most people don't actualy want harder. well unless they can show off how much better they are then other people, just becasue they completed something on harder difficulty. otherwise, developers wouldn't need to keep adding extra rewards for doing things on harder difficulty.
Well, that really isnt a difficulty slider, that is just preset levels for areas. As much as I did like that , it really bothered me the restrictions you had on questing. When I think difficulty slider I think skyrim, or even more extreme oblivion. I think if they were to keep the overland content as is, and just made bosses more difficult, like they should be, then people would be happy , but even they are pitifully easy atm, making quests incredibly anticlimactic. I am looking at you Morrowind final boss. There needs to be a happy medium, because as it is atm, its just a walk in, not even the park, its a walk through , its not even a walk.0 -
datgladiatah✭✭✭I don't understand this need to protect casual players from dying. I don't really see it very often outside of them trying to solo world bosses. You should die in games. That's an aspect of what makes gaming entertaining is, as someone on the thread said, adversity. Learning how to perform and getting better is satisfying. You can RP or be a casual player and die every once in a while. I have casual friends that love FO4, DA:O/DA:I, Skyrim, etc. and love it even if they enter into situations where they fail miserably. When they're not in a town customizing their character or going into low level areas or reading codexes/books to engulf themselves in the lore, they talk about the challenges and how they overcame them.
And what's really frustrating to me about the discussion from the people who disagree with the OP is that, no one's taking into consideration that the 'hard' end game content is exclusively multiplayer (outside of Maelstrom which I don't think a ton of people think is fun, more like brutally frustrating because the rest of the game plays nothing like it and there's no way to learn outside doing just that trial). I understand this is an MMO. I understand you're pushed to make friends, join guilds, trade items, etc. I just don't think you should be bored out of your *** minds grinding a character so you can DO fun things with your friends. Do you know what can potentially be fun? Questing with friends! I try to quest with my boyfriend at times and it just doesn't work, we both get bored OR we get frustrated at dungeons. There's no build up to 'end game content' if there's no mid game.
People have mentioned this before, and I think the gameplay in ESO is solid enough to achieve their original promise of being a multiplayer TES game, but it just isn't. Every TES game has challenges that vary from game to game, but they still have challenge, and character progression, and a sense of purpose focused on your individual character. And if I could play those types of games with my friends, we would have a fantastic time. ESO does not feel that way because it is either mind numbingly easy (single player, normal dungeons, even vanilla vet dungeons) or frustratingly difficult (DLC dungeons, trials, maelstrom) and that just makes it not fun for a duration unless you do get a good group to enjoy vet trials or pvp.
There's no reason to coddle to people who die in overworld zones. They're learning. We're a good community and we help people that ask. But oftentimes they only ask questions regarding end game content because NOTHING prepped them!!2 -
Illurian✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Constructive criticism with reasonable compromises is throwing a tantrum? The only people I hear throwing a tantrum are the ones calling us arrogant, and other names for voicing our opinion, which is shared by a lot of people btw, that the overland content is far too easy, and a slight buff to it, especially dlc would only make the game better. Slight buff =/= turning everything to vma levels. I mean really, what is the point of using any gear if you can do the whole game naked pretty much?
I have conceded to a veteran/normal option, but I will not concede to a straight up all around buff.
As I have stated before (which you conveniently ignored), a 10% buff will not make a difference at all to veteran players. Not a single bit. But for the casuals that are already struggling with certain delve bosses or quest bosses, the game might become nigh unplayable for them. 10% will still be too easy to most. 20% will still be too easy to most. 50% will still be too easy for some. VMA Online would still be too easy for some. Again, difficulty is a subjective concept and should not be treated as an objective gauge.
It's hilariously hypocritical that you post about how people who are against the buff are being self centered (which in my case isn't even warranted as I personally would have zero problems with overland content even if it were buffed significantly) when you are essentially asking for the same. You want a buff because you find it too easy. Screw the casuals.
A good middle ground is to have a veteran/normal mode option, just like we have with the dungeons. This gives an option for both casuals and veterans, and options are always good.Edited by Illurian on November 16, 2017 9:39AMKiss the chaos.1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭First of all: We don’t know what the majority wants or doesn’t want. These are assumptions, not even educated guesses. Nobody here has any solid data, and I doubt even ZOS has. Completion rates don’t paint the whole picture of difficulty.
Therefore one can say that the game consists mainly of players who have a hard time killing a mud crab with as much solid foundation as the opposite. At this point the discussion is one of opinions, not reasonable facts.
Ultimately the problem of difficulty is always tied closely to rewards. I actually perceive that the issue is just the other way round: it’s not so much the “filthy elitists” clamoring for harder content but the players that have been labeled Care Bears pushing for content nerfs because they can’t get the rewards tied to those (several vet dungeons were nerfed for this reason several times).
The pendulum swings, and therefore you won’t make both sides happy. I find it disingenuous to call the players who like tougher content selfish though. It’s actually the other way round if you look at how much of the game is really really easy.Edited by Feanor on November 16, 2017 8:17AMMain characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.3 -
Adernath✭✭✭✭✭I still don't get it why there is even a discussion that new DLC should be as easy as the faction's starter zones. Can't we not at least agree that it is absolutely not necessary to have newbies and low levels fool around in new DLC content?
What is the point in increasing cp cap further if the new content is not made for this high cp?
And this difficulty slider idea goes on my nerves: this is an absurd suggestion, because no one with two brain cells would make the game more difficult for himself when sharing the same content and achievements with other players.1 -
agegarton✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NPC difficulty has been getting weaker each update. In CWC i can be naked and 2 hit the npcs. Makes the game feel pointless. I liked Imperial City difficulty at release was hard but still doable solo and had roaming challenges.
Can you do that naked, at sub level 20, with no CPs assigned ? Just wondering if things are getting way easier, or your character is getting more powerful.0 -
Illurian✭✭✭✭✭
✭I still don't get it why there is even a discussion that new DLC should be as easy as the faction's starter zones. Can't we not at least agree that it is absolutely not necessary to have newbies and low levels fool around in new DLC content?
Then you must be one of the few that were against the One Tamriel update. Prior to this, you would have had a point. Stay in the zones of your level. However, because of One Tamriel (and the direction ZOS is trying to push the game), your argument holds no weight. The purpose of One Tamriel is for anyone to go anywhere, anytime. That's why all mobs are cp 160, and why battle leveling exists. To go against this is to go against the direction of the game over the past year entirely.
The new content is made for high cp, though. The new trials on vet mode are tough even for cp690 characters. Even vet Blood root forge on hard mode can be a problem for some cp690 players. Overland content and dungeons/trials are separate, and should remain so.What is the point in increasing cp cap further if the new content is not made for this high cp?And this difficulty slider idea goes on my nerves: this is an absurd suggestion, because no one with two brain cells would make the game more difficult for himself when sharing the same content and achievements with other players.
It's for people who genuinely want to quest with a challenge. If you only care about the rewards, easy content should be what you should be rooting for.Kiss the chaos.2 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭datgladiatah wrote: »I don't understand this need to protect casual players from dying. I don't really see it very often outside of them trying to solo world bosses. You should die in games. That's an aspect of what makes gaming entertaining is, as someone on the thread said, adversity. Learning how to perform and getting better is satisfying. You can RP or be a casual player and die every once in a while. I have casual friends that love FO4, DA:O/DA:I, Skyrim, etc. and love it even if they enter into situations where they fail miserably. When they're not in a town customizing their character or going into low level areas or reading codexes/books to engulf themselves in the lore, they talk about the challenges and how they overcame them.
And what's really frustrating to me about the discussion from the people who disagree with the OP is that, no one's taking into consideration that the 'hard' end game content is exclusively multiplayer (outside of Maelstrom which I don't think a ton of people think is fun, more like brutally frustrating because the rest of the game plays nothing like it and there's no way to learn outside doing just that trial). I understand this is an MMO. I understand you're pushed to make friends, join guilds, trade items, etc. I just don't think you should be bored out of your *** minds grinding a character so you can DO fun things with your friends. Do you know what can potentially be fun? Questing with friends! I try to quest with my boyfriend at times and it just doesn't work, we both get bored OR we get frustrated at dungeons. There's no build up to 'end game content' if there's no mid game.
People have mentioned this before, and I think the gameplay in ESO is solid enough to achieve their original promise of being a multiplayer TES game, but it just isn't. Every TES game has challenges that vary from game to game, but they still have challenge, and character progression, and a sense of purpose focused on your individual character. And if I could play those types of games with my friends, we would have a fantastic time. ESO does not feel that way because it is either mind numbingly easy (single player, normal dungeons, even vanilla vet dungeons) or frustratingly difficult (DLC dungeons, trials, maelstrom) and that just makes it not fun for a duration unless you do get a good group to enjoy vet trials or pvp.
There's no reason to coddle to people who die in overworld zones. They're learning. We're a good community and we help people that ask. But oftentimes they only ask questions regarding end game content because NOTHING prepped them!!
Couldn't of said it better myself.NPC difficulty has been getting weaker each update. In CWC i can be naked and 2 hit the npcs. Makes the game feel pointless. I liked Imperial City difficulty at release was hard but still doable solo and had roaming challenges.
Can you do that naked, at sub level 20, with no CPs assigned ? Just wondering if things are getting way easier, or your character is getting more powerful.
Already made a video with that, so yes, you can, maybe not 2 hit them, but you can def defeat them with no problem. If you watch my above video you will see me facing a mob of 3 at th end of the video at lvl 7, with no cp allocated, absolutely AWFUL gear, no buffs, only using first four abilities you learn. It is pitifully easy. How anyone can defend the level of difficulty atm is beyond me. It is mind numbingly easy.
Constructive criticism with reasonable compromises is throwing a tantrum? The only people I hear throwing a tantrum are the ones calling us arrogant, and other names for voicing our opinion, which is shared by a lot of people btw, that the overland content is far too easy, and a slight buff to it, especially dlc would only make the game better. Slight buff =/= turning everything to vma levels. I mean really, what is the point of using any gear if you can do the whole game naked pretty much?
I have conceded to a veteran/normal option, but I will not concede to a straight up all around buff.
As I have stated before (which you conveniently ignored), a 10% buff will not make a difference at all to veteran players. Not a single bit. But for the casuals that are already struggling with certain delve bosses or quest bosses, the game might become nigh unplayable for them. 10% will still be too easy to most. 20% will still be too easy to most. 50% will still be too easy for some. VMA Online would still be too easy for some. Again, difficulty is a subjective concept and should not be treated as an objective gauge.
It's hilariously hypocritical that you post about how people who are against the buff are being self centered (which in my case isn't even warranted as I personally would have zero problems with overland content even if it were buffed significantly) when you are essentially asking for the same. You want a buff because you find it too easy. Screw the casuals.
A good middle ground is to have a veteran/normal mode option, just like we have with the dungeons. This gives an option for both casuals and veterans, and options are always good.
Saying the casuals should have to learn their class through adversity is saying screw them? I guess that is how the world works now a days. Heaven forbid people die in a video game. Just wow. Continue to crucify me for wanting to appeal to a wider audience aside from the god mode crowd. And making a zone veteran mode is just a dumb suggestion, no one would do it, which is why a moderate buff to general difficulty would benefit everyone. Casual players would advance in skill, and ask for help, and older players would feel an actual accomplishment going against that ultimate boss in the quest line. But seriously, keep calling me names , go ahead. Really just proving my point.Edited by Jade1986 on November 16, 2017 11:10AM1 -
Enemoriana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hands off story zones, DLC or not. Quest and delves should be easy. It's ok for low-level character to search help once or twice, but not often. Many players are not "MMO players", they are "Elder Scrolls players". They want new story and lore, but they don't want constantly play in group. It's great that nearly all story is available to everybody, no matter which level and skill they have.
Special mode for those who want difficulty - ok, though I don't believe that can become real, but more difficulty to everybody - no, no, no.
More mechanics - interesting for old players, too much for new, who don't know even basic.
More health and damage - battle won't become more difficult and interesting, they'll become long and boring.
Not so long ago created characters with class I never played before. That. Was. Pain.PC EU, @Enemoriana. Ru.
Houses: all sets crafting hub at Rosewine Retreat inn room, Erstwhile Sanctuary as actual Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary, Hunter's Glade as werewolf tavern (downstairs), Strident Springs Demesne as adventurer's house.
Wishlist: character slots, minstrel personality, molten war torte and white gold war torte recipes, Willowpond Haven, Kor and Hildegard houseguests, crown crates.1 -
Adernath✭✭✭✭✭Then you must be one of the few that were against the One Tamriel update. Prior to this, you would have had a point. Stay in the zones of your level. However, because of One Tamriel (and the direction ZOS is trying to push the game), your argument holds no weight. The purpose of One Tamriel is for anyone to go anywhere, anytime. That's why all mobs are cp 160, and why battle leveling exists. To go against this is to go against the direction of the game over the past year entirely.
You know that being able to group up with other factions players in their zones and reducing game difficulty are two different things?
The former is IMO the reason why 1T was necessary, not the latter, because of the former we were able to find the players in the other faction needed to team up. I found the old difficulty indeed much better besides of the short respawn timer of the mobs, but I am repeating myself here.The new content is made for high cp, though. The new trials on vet mode are tough even for cp690 characters. Even vet Blood root forge on hard mode can be a problem for some cp690 players. Overland content and dungeons/trials are separate, and should remain so.
You still don't get the point: We precisely do not want to sit in a trial all the time or in vet dungeons, but also want challenging solo content of the new DLC, since this is the main bulk of new content. We simply want new challenging and entertaining experiences for veteran players outside of group content. New players already have way enough material to explore.
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https://youtu.be/hUJwfCv7Zdk
