CWC pointlessly easy.

Chilly-McFreeze

I always ask myself how games with high difficulty became popular when today's gamer community consists of mostly whiners and wannabe demigods. Maybe they should sell games with a pack of kleenex in the future, just in case someone happens to die in that game.

But all joking aside. I become more and more intrigued in a vet-mode for overland content. Don't know the technical issues but if it comes with a bit better loot and a couple (doesn't have to be all) achievements it could very well serve not only as an "either-or" but also as a re-play mode.

ESO already lacks content for endgamers and longer players. PvP and the handfull trials/ vet dungeons. I often wonder why I even log in on my main anymore, I've done all quests I could find on him. With my alts leveld and geared up and an aversion to grinding said trails just for killing time I would happily give them a few more months of eso+ when they let me re-live those quests and stories on harder difficulty.

Why should they do this when you can simply create a new toon? Because they could hit two birds with one stone. They can give more skilled players a challenge while leaving content for those untouched who find the difficulty okay already and they easily prolong my playtime without adding much thought or effort (besides what it would technically take).

Yep, might be only artificially prolonged, but when you take into account that they can't release a zone every month and when they only thing that prolongs game time at the moment is RNG, this would be a welcome addition.

Illurian

Jade1986 wrote: »

Saying the casuals should have to learn their class through adversity is saying screw them? I guess that is how the world works now a days. Heaven forbid people die in a video game. Just wow. Continue to crucify me for wanting to appeal to a wider audience aside from the god mode crowd. And making a zone veteran mode is just a dumb suggestion, no one would do it, which is why a moderate buff to general difficulty would benefit everyone. Casual players would advance in skill, and ask for help, and older players would feel an actual accomplishment going against that ultimate boss in the quest line. But seriously, keep calling me names , go ahead. Really just proving my point.

First of all, stop right there. Do not attempt to insult my intelligence along with everyone else's who reads your post by playing the victim here. Nowhere did I "call you names" or "crucify" you.

Secondly, good job evading my points once again about how your "small buff" idea is not a feasible one, by not addressing it entirely.

Lastly, I find it ironic that you are essentially telling casuals to "grow up and git gud" when you yourself fold under the first sign of an intellectual debate, instantly playing the victim.

I'll repeat your words back at you, paraphrased to make it more appropriate: Saying that I do not agree with your idea is crucifying you and calling you names? I guess that is how the world works nowadays. Heaven forbid people disagree on a video game. Just wow.

Illurian

Adernath wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Then you must be one of the few that were against the One Tamriel update. Prior to this, you would have had a point. Stay in the zones of your level. However, because of One Tamriel (and the direction ZOS is trying to push the game), your argument holds no weight. The purpose of One Tamriel is for anyone to go anywhere, anytime. That's why all mobs are cp 160, and why battle leveling exists. To go against this is to go against the direction of the game over the past year entirely.

You know that being able to group up with other factions players in their zones and reducing game difficulty are two different things?

The former is IMO the reason why 1T was necessary, not the latter, because of the former we were able to find the players in the other faction needed to team up. I found the old difficulty indeed much better besides of the short respawn timer of the mobs, but I am repeating myself here.

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/updates/update/onetamriel

Let me highlight it for you:

Travel where you like, whenever you like, with whomever you like regardless of their Alliance or level. Accept any quest, fight any monster, and experience a world of adventure without limits!

You were saying?

Adernath wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

The new content is made for high cp, though. The new trials on vet mode are tough even for cp690 characters. Even vet Blood root forge on hard mode can be a problem for some cp690 players. Overland content and dungeons/trials are separate, and should remain so.

You still don't get the point: We precisely do not want to sit in a trial all the time or in vet dungeons, but also want challenging solo content of the new DLC, since this is the main bulk of new content. We simply want new challenging and entertaining experiences for veteran players outside of group content. New players already have way enough material to explore.

Just like how you do not want to sit in a trial all the time, casuals do not want to have to constantly fight for their lives and take 30 minutes to finish a simple quest. At least you have the option to do vet dungeons or vet trials. Casuals are limited almost entirely to questing and enjoying the storyline, with possibly a normal (non-dlc) dungeon here and there.

Your argument is essentially "I don't like it, change it", which is not an argument at all.

Feanor

@Chilly-McFreeze

I’d be all for it as well. It’s not going to happen though. If you give better rewards or even just additional achievements you can be sure the whining will be incredible. I still remember the discussion about Midyear Mayhem giving achievements the poor Casuals couldn’t seemingly get (although most didn’t even try and didn’t know how easy 50 kills was as a prerequisite even when they were told so).

ESO is easy and it will stay that way sadly.

Illurian

Feanor wrote: »

@Chilly-McFreeze

I’d be all for it as well. It’s not going to happen though. If you give better rewards or even just additional achievements you can be sure the whining will be incredible. I still remember the discussion about Midyear Mayhem giving achievements the poor Casuals couldn’t seemingly get (although most didn’t even try and didn’t know how easy 50 kills was as a prerequisite even when they were told so).

ESO is easy and it will stay that way sadly.

I think you should separate "casuals" from PvE'ers.

Midyear Mayhem was a PvP event, which understandably many PvE'ers were in dismay at, regardless of how easy anyone claims it was.

Milvan

I wish overland content could at least teach new players how to do a proper rotation.

The amount of people that hits cp690 with less than 20k parse is too damn high.

Feanor

@Illurian

It’s the same principle though. Imagine a veteran mode zone that gave gold jewelry for example, but was on the difficulty of a DLC HM dungeon. The cries for nerfs would be deafening.

Edit: And no, it was not understandable. If I can’t do the content I’m not entitled to loot or achievements. Calling for nerfs or the reward being made accessible differently is the cop out.

Illurian

Milvan wrote: »

I wish overland content could at least teach new players how to do a proper rotation.

The amount of people that hits cp690 with less than 20k parse is too damn high.

While I agree with this, this is a different discussion entirely.

Since ZOS has accepted animation cancelling as part of the game, they should have tutorials quests that teach newbies how to do it. Also to teach newbies basic combos not just for dps, but for healing and tanking as well.

Anyway, as I said, this is a different discussion entirely.

Illurian

Feanor wrote: »

@Illurian

It’s the same principle though. Imagine a veteran mode zone that gave gold jewelry for example, but was on the difficulty of a DLC HM dungeon. The cries for nerfs would be deafening.

I would argue otherwise. That's how veteran dungeons already work. You can only get purple jewelry in veteran dungeons, but few to no casuals are crying for nerfs to that.

In my experience, casual players do not care much for the gear that they have. One of the reasons why they fall under the term "casual".

Jade1986

Enemoriana wrote: »

Hands off story zones, DLC or not. Quest and delves should be easy. It's ok for low-level character to search help once or twice, but not often. Many players are not "MMO players", they are "Elder Scrolls players". They want new story and lore, but they don't want constantly play in group. It's great that nearly all story is available to everybody, no matter which level and skill they have.
Special mode for those who want difficulty - ok, though I don't believe that can become real, but more difficulty to everybody - no, no, no.
More mechanics - interesting for old players, too much for new, who don't know even basic.
More health and damage - battle won't become more difficult and interesting, they'll become long and boring.

Not so long ago created characters with class I never played before. That. Was. Pain.

People said the exact same thing about SWTOR " SWTOR players are Kotor players, not mmo players "

Yet, difficulty dropped, focus went to story content , playerbase evaporated. People are not as soft as you guys think. And I created a argo

Illurian wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Saying the casuals should have to learn their class through adversity is saying screw them? I guess that is how the world works now a days. Heaven forbid people die in a video game. Just wow. Continue to crucify me for wanting to appeal to a wider audience aside from the god mode crowd. And making a zone veteran mode is just a dumb suggestion, no one would do it, which is why a moderate buff to general difficulty would benefit everyone. Casual players would advance in skill, and ask for help, and older players would feel an actual accomplishment going against that ultimate boss in the quest line. But seriously, keep calling me names , go ahead. Really just proving my point.

First of all, stop right there. Do not attempt to insult my intelligence along with everyone else's who reads your post by playing the victim here. Nowhere did I "call you names" or "crucify" you.

Secondly, good job evading my points once again about how your "small buff" idea is not a feasible one, by not addressing it entirely.

Lastly, I find it ironic that you are essentially telling casuals to "grow up and git gud" when you yourself fold under the first sign of an intellectual debate, instantly playing the victim.

I'll repeat your words back at you, paraphrased to make it more appropriate: Saying that I do not agree with your idea is crucifying you and calling you names? I guess that is how the world works nowadays. Heaven forbid people disagree on a video game. Just wow.

Really, calling me arrogant and selfish and being passive aggressive acting like I want to cast out everyone who is a casual gamer? Yeah, that is in fact insulting and crucifying me.lol. Also, I would like to see where I told people to grow up, again, another person putting words in my mouth. And how is saying people should learn their classes through adversity a -bad- thing? Is that really an insult now a days? There is no intellectual debate with you people, it is " The game has to stay super easy or the game will implode on itself " or bust. That's it.

Enemoriana wrote: »

Hands off story zones, DLC or not. Quest and delves should be easy. It's ok for low-level character to search help once or twice, but not often. Many players are not "MMO players", they are "Elder Scrolls players". They want new story and lore, but they don't want constantly play in group. It's great that nearly all story is available to everybody, no matter which level and skill they have.
Special mode for those who want difficulty - ok, though I don't believe that can become real, but more difficulty to everybody - no, no, no.
More mechanics - interesting for old players, too much for new, who don't know even basic.
More health and damage - battle won't become more difficult and interesting, they'll become long and boring.

Not so long ago created characters with class I never played before. That. Was. Pain.

People said the exact same thing about SWTOR " SWTOR players are Kotor players, not mmo players "

Yet, difficulty dropped, focus went to story content , playerbase evaporated. People are not as soft as you guys think. And I created a argonian nb recently, and the game is stupid easy, not a pain at all.

Milvan wrote: »

I wish overland content could at least teach new players how to do a proper rotation.

The amount of people that hits cp690 with less than 20k parse is too damn high.

Agreed. But remember we are monsters for wanting people to learn rotation, and be able to learn + read tooltips.

Illurian wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Illurian

It’s the same principle though. Imagine a veteran mode zone that gave gold jewelry for example, but was on the difficulty of a DLC HM dungeon. The cries for nerfs would be deafening.

I would argue otherwise. That's how veteran dungeons already work. You can only get purple jewelry in veteran dungeons, but few to no casuals are crying for nerfs to that.

In my experience, casual players do not care much for the gear that they have. One of the reasons why they fall under the term "casual".

You can go through the whole game in white lvl 10 gear without breaking a sweat. soooo.......I have already posted and proven that.

Illurian

Jade1986 wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Saying the casuals should have to learn their class through adversity is saying screw them? I guess that is how the world works now a days. Heaven forbid people die in a video game. Just wow. Continue to crucify me for wanting to appeal to a wider audience aside from the god mode crowd. And making a zone veteran mode is just a dumb suggestion, no one would do it, which is why a moderate buff to general difficulty would benefit everyone. Casual players would advance in skill, and ask for help, and older players would feel an actual accomplishment going against that ultimate boss in the quest line. But seriously, keep calling me names , go ahead. Really just proving my point.

First of all, stop right there. Do not attempt to insult my intelligence along with everyone else's who reads your post by playing the victim here. Nowhere did I "call you names" or "crucify" you.

Secondly, good job evading my points once again about how your "small buff" idea is not a feasible one, by not addressing it entirely.

Lastly, I find it ironic that you are essentially telling casuals to "grow up and git gud" when you yourself fold under the first sign of an intellectual debate, instantly playing the victim.

I'll repeat your words back at you, paraphrased to make it more appropriate: Saying that I do not agree with your idea is crucifying you and calling you names? I guess that is how the world works nowadays. Heaven forbid people disagree on a video game. Just wow.

Really, calling me arrogant and selfish and being passive aggressive acting like I want to cast out everyone who is a casual gamer? Yeah, that is in fact insulting and crucifying me.lol.

Go ahead and quote where I called you arrogant and selfish. Go ahead. Stop playing the victim.

Jade1986 wrote: »

Also, I would like to see where I told people to grow up, again, another person putting words in my mouth.

It's funny that you still spout such hypocrisy when you actually did just put words in my mouth. You can't quote me insulting you because I never did.

Jade1986 wrote: »

And how is saying people should learn their classes through adversity a -bad- thing? Is that really an insult now a days?

Because it's not your place to tell someone that they have to learn their class through adversity. It's simply not your place to decide how someone plays the game, especially when they only solo quest.

Jade1986 wrote: »

There is no intellectual debate with you people, it is " The game has to stay super easy or the game will implode on itself " or bust. That's it.

You cry about someone placing words in your mouth and then do it twice in the same paragraph. Impressive. Just because the debate is above your capacity does not mean that there isn't any to be had.

Jade1986 wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Illurian

It’s the same principle though. Imagine a veteran mode zone that gave gold jewelry for example, but was on the difficulty of a DLC HM dungeon. The cries for nerfs would be deafening.

I would argue otherwise. That's how veteran dungeons already work. You can only get purple jewelry in veteran dungeons, but few to no casuals are crying for nerfs to that.

In my experience, casual players do not care much for the gear that they have. One of the reasons why they fall under the term "casual".

You can go through the whole game in white lvl 10 gear without breaking a sweat. soooo.......I have already posted and proven that.

That has nothing to do with the point in contention.

And again. You ignore my points about how your "minor buff" idea would not be feasible. You can keep ignoring, but I'll keep reminding you.

anadandy

Warning: Anecdotal evidence.

I sometimes send my healer down to the starter zones to hand out Fishy Sticks and lowbie tripots to new users. And if the number of level 4-10s I see getting HAMMERED by lowly thunderbugs and alits is any indication - overland content is not "no sweat" for the average new player.

Feanor

Illurian wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Illurian

It’s the same principle though. Imagine a veteran mode zone that gave gold jewelry for example, but was on the difficulty of a DLC HM dungeon. The cries for nerfs would be deafening.

I would argue otherwise. That's how veteran dungeons already work. You can only get purple jewelry in veteran dungeons, but few to no casuals are crying for nerfs to that.

In my experience, casual players do not care much for the gear that they have. One of the reasons why they fall under the term "casual".

You seem to have missed the countless nerfs to ICP, WGT and CoA, and the QQing on the forums they are oh so hard to PuG and therefore need a nerf. Which is what happened.

Jade1986

Illurian wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Saying the casuals should have to learn their class through adversity is saying screw them? I guess that is how the world works now a days. Heaven forbid people die in a video game. Just wow. Continue to crucify me for wanting to appeal to a wider audience aside from the god mode crowd. And making a zone veteran mode is just a dumb suggestion, no one would do it, which is why a moderate buff to general difficulty would benefit everyone. Casual players would advance in skill, and ask for help, and older players would feel an actual accomplishment going against that ultimate boss in the quest line. But seriously, keep calling me names , go ahead. Really just proving my point.

First of all, stop right there. Do not attempt to insult my intelligence along with everyone else's who reads your post by playing the victim here. Nowhere did I "call you names" or "crucify" you.

Secondly, good job evading my points once again about how your "small buff" idea is not a feasible one, by not addressing it entirely.

Lastly, I find it ironic that you are essentially telling casuals to "grow up and git gud" when you yourself fold under the first sign of an intellectual debate, instantly playing the victim.

I'll repeat your words back at you, paraphrased to make it more appropriate: Saying that I do not agree with your idea is crucifying you and calling you names? I guess that is how the world works nowadays. Heaven forbid people disagree on a video game. Just wow.

Really, calling me arrogant and selfish and being passive aggressive acting like I want to cast out everyone who is a casual gamer? Yeah, that is in fact insulting and crucifying me.lol.

Go ahead and quote where I called you arrogant and selfish. Go ahead. Stop playing the victim.

Jade1986 wrote: »

Also, I would like to see where I told people to grow up, again, another person putting words in my mouth.

It's funny that you still spout such hypocrisy when you actually did just put words in my mouth. You can't quote me insulting you because I never did.

Jade1986 wrote: »

And how is saying people should learn their classes through adversity a -bad- thing? Is that really an insult now a days?

Because it's not your place to tell someone that they have to learn their class through adversity. It's simply not your place to decide how someone plays the game, especially when they only solo quest.

Jade1986 wrote: »

There is no intellectual debate with you people, it is " The game has to stay super easy or the game will implode on itself " or bust. That's it.

You cry about someone placing words in your mouth and then do it twice in the same paragraph. Impressive. Just because the debate is above your capacity does not mean that there isn't any to be had.

Jade1986 wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Illurian

It’s the same principle though. Imagine a veteran mode zone that gave gold jewelry for example, but was on the difficulty of a DLC HM dungeon. The cries for nerfs would be deafening.

I would argue otherwise. That's how veteran dungeons already work. You can only get purple jewelry in veteran dungeons, but few to no casuals are crying for nerfs to that.

In my experience, casual players do not care much for the gear that they have. One of the reasons why they fall under the term "casual".

You can go through the whole game in white lvl 10 gear without breaking a sweat. soooo.......I have already posted and proven that.

That has nothing to do with the point in contention.

And again. You ignore my points about how your "minor buff" idea would not be feasible. You can keep ignoring, but I'll keep reminding you.

There is no point even talking to you anymore. I am dumb and playing the victim for having an opinion. Yep, sounds about right with you guys. Even worse, not by you, but others I have been insulted for providing -requested- video proof.

Jade1986

anadandy wrote: »

Warning: Anecdotal evidence.

I sometimes send my healer down to the starter zones to hand out Fishy Sticks and lowbie tripots to new users. And if the number of level 4-10s I see getting HAMMERED by lowly thunderbugs and alits is any indication - overland content is not "no sweat" for the average new player.

I am going to there right now and count. Because I think over the last 3 years I can count those on 1 hand.

Iselin

anadandy wrote: »

Warning: Anecdotal evidence.

I sometimes send my healer down to the starter zones to hand out Fishy Sticks and lowbie tripots to new users. And if the number of level 4-10s I see getting HAMMERED by lowly thunderbugs and alits is any indication - overland content is not "no sweat" for the average new player.

It's obvious this is precisely why the overland difficulty is as it is.

Illurian

Jade1986 wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Saying the casuals should have to learn their class through adversity is saying screw them? I guess that is how the world works now a days. Heaven forbid people die in a video game. Just wow. Continue to crucify me for wanting to appeal to a wider audience aside from the god mode crowd. And making a zone veteran mode is just a dumb suggestion, no one would do it, which is why a moderate buff to general difficulty would benefit everyone. Casual players would advance in skill, and ask for help, and older players would feel an actual accomplishment going against that ultimate boss in the quest line. But seriously, keep calling me names , go ahead. Really just proving my point.

First of all, stop right there. Do not attempt to insult my intelligence along with everyone else's who reads your post by playing the victim here. Nowhere did I "call you names" or "crucify" you.

Secondly, good job evading my points once again about how your "small buff" idea is not a feasible one, by not addressing it entirely.

Lastly, I find it ironic that you are essentially telling casuals to "grow up and git gud" when you yourself fold under the first sign of an intellectual debate, instantly playing the victim.

I'll repeat your words back at you, paraphrased to make it more appropriate: Saying that I do not agree with your idea is crucifying you and calling you names? I guess that is how the world works nowadays. Heaven forbid people disagree on a video game. Just wow.

Really, calling me arrogant and selfish and being passive aggressive acting like I want to cast out everyone who is a casual gamer? Yeah, that is in fact insulting and crucifying me.lol.

Go ahead and quote where I called you arrogant and selfish. Go ahead. Stop playing the victim.

Jade1986 wrote: »

Also, I would like to see where I told people to grow up, again, another person putting words in my mouth.

It's funny that you still spout such hypocrisy when you actually did just put words in my mouth. You can't quote me insulting you because I never did.

Jade1986 wrote: »

And how is saying people should learn their classes through adversity a -bad- thing? Is that really an insult now a days?

Because it's not your place to tell someone that they have to learn their class through adversity. It's simply not your place to decide how someone plays the game, especially when they only solo quest.

Jade1986 wrote: »

There is no intellectual debate with you people, it is " The game has to stay super easy or the game will implode on itself " or bust. That's it.

You cry about someone placing words in your mouth and then do it twice in the same paragraph. Impressive. Just because the debate is above your capacity does not mean that there isn't any to be had.

Jade1986 wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Illurian

It’s the same principle though. Imagine a veteran mode zone that gave gold jewelry for example, but was on the difficulty of a DLC HM dungeon. The cries for nerfs would be deafening.

I would argue otherwise. That's how veteran dungeons already work. You can only get purple jewelry in veteran dungeons, but few to no casuals are crying for nerfs to that.

In my experience, casual players do not care much for the gear that they have. One of the reasons why they fall under the term "casual".

You can go through the whole game in white lvl 10 gear without breaking a sweat. soooo.......I have already posted and proven that.

That has nothing to do with the point in contention.

And again. You ignore my points about how your "minor buff" idea would not be feasible. You can keep ignoring, but I'll keep reminding you.

There is no point even talking to you anymore. I am dumb and playing the victim for having an opinion. Yep, sounds about right with you guys. Even worse, not by you, but others I have been insulted for providing -requested- video proof.

Your qualm with others is not of my concern.

You accused me of insulting you and crucifying you, which as a matter of fact I did not.

If you feel capable of engaging in an intellectual, civil debate, feel free to send me a pm.

Illurian

Feanor wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Illurian

It’s the same principle though. Imagine a veteran mode zone that gave gold jewelry for example, but was on the difficulty of a DLC HM dungeon. The cries for nerfs would be deafening.

I would argue otherwise. That's how veteran dungeons already work. You can only get purple jewelry in veteran dungeons, but few to no casuals are crying for nerfs to that.

In my experience, casual players do not care much for the gear that they have. One of the reasons why they fall under the term "casual".

You seem to have missed the countless nerfs to ICP, WGT and CoA, and the QQing on the forums they are oh so hard to PuG and therefore need a nerf. Which is what happened.

Right, but big bulk of the player base that actually did complain about those dungeons do not actually fall under the blanket of "casuals" that we are talking about. Those players actually did vet dungeons and trials, not purely solo quest and a normal non-dlc dungeon here and there.

Even if it did, do you honestly think that buffing overland content in general would benefit the community, after the (by your words) countless players called for nerfs for dungeons, that are actually supposed to be difficult?

Feanor

Illurian wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Illurian

It’s the same principle though. Imagine a veteran mode zone that gave gold jewelry for example, but was on the difficulty of a DLC HM dungeon. The cries for nerfs would be deafening.

I would argue otherwise. That's how veteran dungeons already work. You can only get purple jewelry in veteran dungeons, but few to no casuals are crying for nerfs to that.

In my experience, casual players do not care much for the gear that they have. One of the reasons why they fall under the term "casual".

You seem to have missed the countless nerfs to ICP, WGT and CoA, and the QQing on the forums they are oh so hard to PuG and therefore need a nerf. Which is what happened.

Right, but big bulk of the player base that actually did complain about those dungeons do not actually fall under the blanket of "casuals" that we are talking about. Those players actually did vet dungeons and trials, not purely solo quest and a normal non-dlc dungeon here and there.

Even if it did, do you honestly think that buffing overland content in general would benefit the community, after the (by your words) countless players called for nerfs for dungeons, that are actually supposed to be difficult?

Probably not, because people don’t want to work for rewards any more. It’s the age of participation trophies. All I’d like would be an option. So the Casuals can potato away to their hearts content and players who love to be challenged can do that as well.

You know, I never thought I’d complete vMA. But I did. Because I took the challenge and worked for it. I don’t demand anyone should be required to do that. But I think considering 99% of the game is on the extreme low end of difficulty it wouldn’t be unfair to get something else than vMA and the odd vet dungeon that’s actually pushing you as a player.

Illurian

Feanor wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Illurian

It’s the same principle though. Imagine a veteran mode zone that gave gold jewelry for example, but was on the difficulty of a DLC HM dungeon. The cries for nerfs would be deafening.

I would argue otherwise. That's how veteran dungeons already work. You can only get purple jewelry in veteran dungeons, but few to no casuals are crying for nerfs to that.

In my experience, casual players do not care much for the gear that they have. One of the reasons why they fall under the term "casual".

You seem to have missed the countless nerfs to ICP, WGT and CoA, and the QQing on the forums they are oh so hard to PuG and therefore need a nerf. Which is what happened.

Right, but big bulk of the player base that actually did complain about those dungeons do not actually fall under the blanket of "casuals" that we are talking about. Those players actually did vet dungeons and trials, not purely solo quest and a normal non-dlc dungeon here and there.

Even if it did, do you honestly think that buffing overland content in general would benefit the community, after the (by your words) countless players called for nerfs for dungeons, that are actually supposed to be difficult?

Probably not, because people don’t want to work for rewards any more. It’s the age of participation trophies. All I’d like would be an option. So the Casuals can potato away to their hearts content and players who love to be challenged can do that as well.

You know, I never thought I’d complete vMA. But I did. Because I took the challenge and worked for it. I don’t demand anyone should be required to do that. But I think considering 99% of the game is on the extreme low end of difficulty it wouldn’t be unfair to get something else than vMA and the odd vet dungeon that’s actually pushing you as a player.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm in agreement with having the option. But it should be an option for casual players to keep it the way it is as well.

I was in the same boat in that I also thought I'd never complete vMA. After dying in the first round I really thought that it would be impossible for me. But I did as well, so I know that practice makes perfect.

But again, options are always good. The best middle ground would be to have a vet/normal overland option to cater to both veteran and casual players.

Chilly-McFreeze

Feanor wrote: »

@Chilly-McFreeze

I’d be all for it as well. It’s not going to happen though. If you give better rewards or even just additional achievements you can be sure the whining will be incredible. I still remember the discussion about Midyear Mayhem giving achievements the poor Casuals couldn’t seemingly get (although most didn’t even try and didn’t know how easy 50 kills was as a prerequisite even when they were told so).

ESO is easy and it will stay that way sadly.

I see and I think it won't happen as well. But about that uproar, then they must complain about achievements and loot from veteran dungeons/ trials as well. I mean, if they find overland content hard, I don't think they will get themselves the mageslayer ***

anadandy wrote: »

Warning: Anecdotal evidence.

I sometimes send my healer down to the starter zones to hand out Fishy Sticks and lowbie tripots to new users. And if the number of level 4-10s I see getting HAMMERED by lowly thunderbugs and alits is any indication - overland content is not "no sweat" for the average new player.

So let's cater the absolut no-goods and potatoes around here? You know, there is something like a learning curve. If someone dies in the starter iland to a mob - so be it. Probably no experience and no gear at all. Usually people learn and get better.

anadandy

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

So let's cater the absolut no-goods and potatoes around here? You know, there is something like a learning curve. If someone dies in the starter iland to a mob - so be it. Probably no experience and no gear at all. Usually people learn and get better.

Leaving it as is is not "catering" to them - and the fact that some players consider those not at their level "no goods" and "potatoes" says it all. I'm not saying they should never die - I was just offering a perspective that what is easy to some is not easy to others. Peace out, I'll keep handing out the fishy sticks.

crjs1

anadandy wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

So let's cater the absolut no-goods and potatoes around here? You know, there is something like a learning curve. If someone dies in the starter iland to a mob - so be it. Probably no experience and no gear at all. Usually people learn and get better.

Leaving it as is is not "catering" to them - and the fact that some players consider those not at their level "no goods" and "potatoes" says it all. I'm not saying they should never die - I was just offering a perspective that what is easy to some is not easy to others. Peace out, I'll keep handing out the fishy sticks.

Exactly!!

Iselin

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

So let's cater the absolut no-goods and potatoes around here? You know, there is something like a learning curve. If someone dies in the starter iland to a mob - so be it. Probably no experience and no gear at all. Usually people learn and get better.

Nah. Let's cater to the toxic elitists instead because that always goes well in games that do lol.

Chilly-McFreeze

Calm down guys. If someone "getting HAMMERED by lowly thunderbugs and alits" at a starter island, it is to expect that those have absolutely zero (0) experience and are therefore not good at this game (yet), or do you beg to differ? And like you derliberately ignored the second half of that paragraph:

"Usually people learn and get better."

So why set difficulty for the absolut non-experienced? Don't you think that once they get used to the game won't die to a trash mob of a overland starter zone anymore too? Says more about you than about me.

Pangnirtung

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

NPC difficulty has been getting weaker each update. In CWC i can be naked and 2 hit the npcs. Makes the game feel pointless. I liked Imperial City difficulty at release was hard but still doable solo and had roaming challenges.

In the four or so years that I have been playing this game, Beta 1, I have NEVER heard this complaint before. /sarcasm off

Really? This is an MMO which is designed for ALL levels of players. Not all of us can L33T players. I like it just the way that it is.

Katahdin

Masel92 wrote: »

Give us an overhand hardmode for 6-8 man groups like guild wars 1 had way back. Instanced, with every boss being a real challenge...

This won't work in ESO unless the make a major change to how maps work. GW maps were instanced to you and your group and no one else. ESO is open world maps with many people in the same map.

They would need an entire second version of the game to have a vet version difficulty of the world. And yes the would require more server capacity to do.

Chilly-McFreeze

Pangnirtung wrote: »

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

NPC difficulty has been getting weaker each update. In CWC i can be naked and 2 hit the npcs. Makes the game feel pointless. I liked Imperial City difficulty at release was hard but still doable solo and had roaming challenges.

In the four or so years that I have been playing this game, Beta 1, I have NEVER heard this complaint before. /sarcasm off

Really? This is an MMO which is designed for ALL levels of players. Not all of us can L33T players. I like it just the way that it is.

Hyperbole much? I guess so.

Linaleah

Jade1986 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

And to demonstrate, I will post a video in a bit, lvl 7, with absolute garbage gear, no drinks, no pots, in CwC, no cp, and only a tiny bit of magicka allocated. And you are seriously telling me this isnt too easy? O.o

yes, I'm seriously telling you that this isn't too easy. yes I'm seriously telling you that if difficulty slider isn't happening - and if by your claim veteran zones stay empty? the difficulty has to stay where it is.

Right, 10 minuts till video.

honestly? i don't care. you can get through the content and not die. THIS IS NOT A BAD THING. being able to get through the content without dying constantly or being on the verge of dying is NOT a bad thing. you happen to think CWC is too easy. and I happen to think its just right. and the only way for use to get what we both want is a difficulty slide which you while claiming you are fine with, also make up excuses why it would never happen, EVEN THOUGH THIS VERY GAME ORIGINALLY CAME WITH A DIFFICULTY SLIDER. so its already built into the system. which tells me you don't actualy want difficulty slider.

I would be totally cool with a difficulty slider, and if there was one originally built in, I was unaware, instead of throwing a tantrum at me and putting me up on the cross, maybe explain, and provide proof of said slider and its former existance.

and maybe before you make claims and excuses about how difficulty slider is impossible to brush it off in order to push overall increased difficulty - you could do some research?

originally, before they switched to cp system only and eventually one tamriel - while leveling you only had acess to your own faction zones. you had to finish faction story, to do Cadwell's silver and gold, aka stories of other factions. silver and gold are still in game, but its no longer necessary to do them, to acess other faction zones. but what they also did is made those zones progressively more difficult. as in each overworld zone came in 3 difficulties. veteran as a difficulty still exists for dungeons and trials. but all zones are now normalized in order to open them up ala prior elder scrolls games where once you do the tutorial, you could do anything - anywhere.

moreover, speaking of remnants of difficulty sliders. in veteran dungeons, there exists a mechanic on a lst boss where by clicking a scroll on the ground? you make that boss harder. its what's known as hard mode.

in some fashion, difficulty sliders are still in game. and there used to be more of them. but .... even before one tamriel, ESO was nerfed. again and again. because it was losing players. most people don't actualy want harder. well unless they can show off how much better they are then other people, just becasue they completed something on harder difficulty. otherwise, developers wouldn't need to keep adding extra rewards for doing things on harder difficulty.

Well, that really isnt a difficulty slider, that is just preset levels for areas. As much as I did like that , it really bothered me the restrictions you had on questing. When I think difficulty slider I think skyrim, or even more extreme oblivion. I think if they were to keep the overland content as is, and just made bosses more difficult, like they should be, then people would be happy , but even they are pitifully easy atm, making quests incredibly anticlimactic. I am looking at you Morrowind final boss. There needs to be a happy medium, because as it is atm, its just a walk in, not even the park, its a walk through , its not even a walk.

uh. that's basically how difficulty sliders tend to work. you chose a difficulty and then that's the stable difficulty you get. unless you switch up or down.

and again, your experience =/= everyone's experience.

Jade1986 wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Hands off story zones, DLC or not. Quest and delves should be easy. It's ok for low-level character to search help once or twice, but not often. Many players are not "MMO players", they are "Elder Scrolls players". They want new story and lore, but they don't want constantly play in group. It's great that nearly all story is available to everybody, no matter which level and skill they have.
Special mode for those who want difficulty - ok, though I don't believe that can become real, but more difficulty to everybody - no, no, no.
More mechanics - interesting for old players, too much for new, who don't know even basic.
More health and damage - battle won't become more difficult and interesting, they'll become long and boring.

Not so long ago created characters with class I never played before. That. Was. Pain.

People said the exact same thing about SWTOR " SWTOR players are Kotor players, not mmo players "

Yet, difficulty dropped, focus went to story content , playerbase evaporated. People are not as soft as you guys think. And I created a argo

Illurian wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Saying the casuals should have to learn their class through adversity is saying screw them? I guess that is how the world works now a days. Heaven forbid people die in a video game. Just wow. Continue to crucify me for wanting to appeal to a wider audience aside from the god mode crowd. And making a zone veteran mode is just a dumb suggestion, no one would do it, which is why a moderate buff to general difficulty would benefit everyone. Casual players would advance in skill, and ask for help, and older players would feel an actual accomplishment going against that ultimate boss in the quest line. But seriously, keep calling me names , go ahead. Really just proving my point.

First of all, stop right there. Do not attempt to insult my intelligence along with everyone else's who reads your post by playing the victim here. Nowhere did I "call you names" or "crucify" you.

Secondly, good job evading my points once again about how your "small buff" idea is not a feasible one, by not addressing it entirely.

Lastly, I find it ironic that you are essentially telling casuals to "grow up and git gud" when you yourself fold under the first sign of an intellectual debate, instantly playing the victim.

I'll repeat your words back at you, paraphrased to make it more appropriate: Saying that I do not agree with your idea is crucifying you and calling you names? I guess that is how the world works nowadays. Heaven forbid people disagree on a video game. Just wow.

Really, calling me arrogant and selfish and being passive aggressive acting like I want to cast out everyone who is a casual gamer? Yeah, that is in fact insulting and crucifying me.lol. Also, I would like to see where I told people to grow up, again, another person putting words in my mouth. And how is saying people should learn their classes through adversity a -bad- thing? Is that really an insult now a days? There is no intellectual debate with you people, it is " The game has to stay super easy or the game will implode on itself " or bust. That's it.

Enemoriana wrote: »

Hands off story zones, DLC or not. Quest and delves should be easy. It's ok for low-level character to search help once or twice, but not often. Many players are not "MMO players", they are "Elder Scrolls players". They want new story and lore, but they don't want constantly play in group. It's great that nearly all story is available to everybody, no matter which level and skill they have.
Special mode for those who want difficulty - ok, though I don't believe that can become real, but more difficulty to everybody - no, no, no.
More mechanics - interesting for old players, too much for new, who don't know even basic.
More health and damage - battle won't become more difficult and interesting, they'll become long and boring.

Not so long ago created characters with class I never played before. That. Was. Pain.

People said the exact same thing about SWTOR " SWTOR players are Kotor players, not mmo players "

Yet, difficulty dropped, focus went to story content , playerbase evaporated. People are not as soft as you guys think. And I created a argonian nb recently, and the game is stupid easy, not a pain at all.

Milvan wrote: »

I wish overland content could at least teach new players how to do a proper rotation.

The amount of people that hits cp690 with less than 20k parse is too damn high.

Agreed. But remember we are monsters for wanting people to learn rotation, and be able to learn + read tooltips.

Illurian wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Illurian

It’s the same principle though. Imagine a veteran mode zone that gave gold jewelry for example, but was on the difficulty of a DLC HM dungeon. The cries for nerfs would be deafening.

I would argue otherwise. That's how veteran dungeons already work. You can only get purple jewelry in veteran dungeons, but few to no casuals are crying for nerfs to that.

In my experience, casual players do not care much for the gear that they have. One of the reasons why they fall under the term "casual".

You can go through the whole game in white lvl 10 gear without breaking a sweat. soooo.......I have already posted and proven that.

once. again
STOP spreading misinformation.

1. swtor was never particularly hard. in fact - with scaling people down in some ways it was made harder, as you could no longer go back to old zones to solo world bosses or go into hardmode flashpoints and solo them for variety of rewards, decorations mostly.
2. swtor started losing its player when it STOPPED RELEASING CONTENT outside of very short, VERY linear story. becasue even story players? didn't want something THAT linear. they wanted class content and choices. they got on rails story that only really works with force users, preferably light sided ones. difficulty of content had NOTHING to do with it. LACK of content did.
3. I must have missed a video where you are easily questing on a lvl 50 non cp character in level 10 gear >_>
4. you have to make up your mind here. are vet dungeons too difficult to you? or can you pull that 20k+ parse after all? becasue if you can do that parse and apparently you are good enough to compensate for lack of health etc with avoiding damage? how in a bloody world are veteran dungeons difficult for you when most of them are just doable for me and my parse is half that??? and before "you are being carried" gets brought up. I'm usually around 40% of the total group damage done (this includes the tank, and healer btw). though there were a few times where i was at 60% or more. and we even got a few speed runs/hardmodes in there. but I digress. if you can pull above 20k? you are NOT by any means and average player.


P.S. animation canceling is the real cancer of this game.

Uriel_Nocturne

Jade1986 wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Hands off story zones, DLC or not. Quest and delves should be easy. It's ok for low-level character to search help once or twice, but not often. Many players are not "MMO players", they are "Elder Scrolls players". They want new story and lore, but they don't want constantly play in group. It's great that nearly all story is available to everybody, no matter which level and skill they have.
Special mode for those who want difficulty - ok, though I don't believe that can become real, but more difficulty to everybody - no, no, no.
More mechanics - interesting for old players, too much for new, who don't know even basic.
More health and damage - battle won't become more difficult and interesting, they'll become long and boring.

Not so long ago created characters with class I never played before. That. Was. Pain.

People said the exact same thing about SWTOR " SWTOR players are Kotor players, not mmo players "

Yet, difficulty dropped, focus went to story content , playerbase evaporated. People are not as soft as you guys think. And I created a argo

Illurian wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Saying the casuals should have to learn their class through adversity is saying screw them? I guess that is how the world works now a days. Heaven forbid people die in a video game. Just wow. Continue to crucify me for wanting to appeal to a wider audience aside from the god mode crowd. And making a zone veteran mode is just a dumb suggestion, no one would do it, which is why a moderate buff to general difficulty would benefit everyone. Casual players would advance in skill, and ask for help, and older players would feel an actual accomplishment going against that ultimate boss in the quest line. But seriously, keep calling me names , go ahead. Really just proving my point.

First of all, stop right there. Do not attempt to insult my intelligence along with everyone else's who reads your post by playing the victim here. Nowhere did I "call you names" or "crucify" you.

Secondly, good job evading my points once again about how your "small buff" idea is not a feasible one, by not addressing it entirely.

Lastly, I find it ironic that you are essentially telling casuals to "grow up and git gud" when you yourself fold under the first sign of an intellectual debate, instantly playing the victim.

I'll repeat your words back at you, paraphrased to make it more appropriate: Saying that I do not agree with your idea is crucifying you and calling you names? I guess that is how the world works nowadays. Heaven forbid people disagree on a video game. Just wow.

Really, calling me arrogant and selfish and being passive aggressive acting like I want to cast out everyone who is a casual gamer? Yeah, that is in fact insulting and crucifying me.lol. Also, I would like to see where I told people to grow up, again, another person putting words in my mouth. And how is saying people should learn their classes through adversity a -bad- thing? Is that really an insult now a days? There is no intellectual debate with you people, it is " The game has to stay super easy or the game will implode on itself " or bust. That's it.

Enemoriana wrote: »

Hands off story zones, DLC or not. Quest and delves should be easy. It's ok for low-level character to search help once or twice, but not often. Many players are not "MMO players", they are "Elder Scrolls players". They want new story and lore, but they don't want constantly play in group. It's great that nearly all story is available to everybody, no matter which level and skill they have.
Special mode for those who want difficulty - ok, though I don't believe that can become real, but more difficulty to everybody - no, no, no.
More mechanics - interesting for old players, too much for new, who don't know even basic.
More health and damage - battle won't become more difficult and interesting, they'll become long and boring.

Not so long ago created characters with class I never played before. That. Was. Pain.

People said the exact same thing about SWTOR " SWTOR players are Kotor players, not mmo players "

Yet, difficulty dropped, focus went to story content , playerbase evaporated. People are not as soft as you guys think. And I created a argonian nb recently, and the game is stupid easy, not a pain at all.

Milvan wrote: »

I wish overland content could at least teach new players how to do a proper rotation.

The amount of people that hits cp690 with less than 20k parse is too damn high.

Agreed. But remember we are monsters for wanting people to learn rotation, and be able to learn + read tooltips.

Illurian wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Illurian

It’s the same principle though. Imagine a veteran mode zone that gave gold jewelry for example, but was on the difficulty of a DLC HM dungeon. The cries for nerfs would be deafening.

I would argue otherwise. That's how veteran dungeons already work. You can only get purple jewelry in veteran dungeons, but few to no casuals are crying for nerfs to that.

In my experience, casual players do not care much for the gear that they have. One of the reasons why they fall under the term "casual".

You can go through the whole game in white lvl 10 gear without breaking a sweat. soooo.......I have already posted and proven that.

I played SWtoR for -YEARS-.

Know why I stopped?

Hint: It's also the reason most of their player population fled the game (according to their Forums and Reddit).

Because they stopped releasing content and focused so heavily on the Loot Crates/Boxes at the same time. They also hired a new Game Director who changed mechanics of the game and the Classes, and changed them in a direction that made then antithetical to what they were described to be.

Not because they made the game "too easy".

At least do some research before you blatantly lie.