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CWC pointlessly easy.
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Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭...People have used to the vet player excuse before, but guess what, vet players actually make up a huge portion of the playerbase , and as demonstrated in other games in the past ( swtor for example ) Ignoring the vet playerbase has caused a huge loss in income for the company running the game... Why on earth is learning to play such a taboo subject for gamers now a days?
First, SWTOR made a bunch of mistakes across the board, other than its treatment of vet players. I think we should be particularly careful about claiming complete knowledge about its financial difficulties, or suggesting there's a single, simple and direct causation at play.
Secondly, absolutely no one is saying 'learning to play' is a taboo subject. That's the complete opposite of what gamers do and many devs do. (Although, to be fair, the game itself does a really poor job of teaching new players much beyond how to light and heavy attack; if you want to attack resilience of players to new techniques, look at how much has to be gleaned from forums and guides not available in-game and less at the players themselves.) This game bears the additional weight of being, in many cases, the first MMO experience for many of its gamers attracted to its console presence or single-player heritage. There's a lot people have to pick up to begin to make sense of things here, and I don't think ESO is particularly unique or objectionable in having fairly simple overland content that segues into more difficult instanced content. As I alluded to in my earlier post, the whole hardcore gamer demand that everything be brutally difficult is tiresome and unduly prominent already. There are multiple games which particularly aim to service that need and it makes little sense to suppose that ESO must also be one of them.
Finally, I am not making an 'excuse'; it's not incumbent upon me to furnish one, nor upon you to be placated by the 'excuse' you apparently believe I have advanced. I am arguing that there are many different audiences for this game, which is part of what has made it strong over the course of its existence and evolution. I do not think there is anything to excuse in ZoS acknowledging that fact with varying degrees of difficulty, and even if I personally would like to see some additional options for tougher content provisioned in the future, I don't see the questlines as being the best place for that.Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »... (stuff)
Your usage of scare quotes around iterations of 'common sense' throughout your post is disingenuous. I didn't use the term, nor am I claiming it is on my side. I suppose the intent is rhetorical, to make opposing arguments sound facile. Good luck with that, I guess. I also did not suggest things like 'someone who is bad spends more on crown store,' along with several other things you oddly attributed to my post. I suggested that having casual players in addition to dedicated ones is important for a company's revenue streams, so it's not shocking to see that reflected in game design. If you find this risible, well... that's confusing, but it's your decision.
In general, most of your argument seems to be setting up straw men to knock down based on odd caricatures of things that sound vaguely like what you believe I said. As such, I'm not really sure how to respond to it. Here's a smiley face.
Regardless, that's my two cents and it's time to go jogging. Have fun.
Edit: words.
Sure, it was a string of events, but since launch there was a trend of them to ignore end game players, it is the reason they had the massive loss of players soon after launch, and itis the reason they had a huge loss of players after the whole kotfe and kotet fiasco happened. They admitted the approach was wrong, they admitted that vet players mattered a lot, which is why the lead creative director was fired and a new one was brought in and has since started catering to all player bases, and numbers are steady again. That is what will happen in this game if they continue this " must make as casual as possible and ignore vet players " approach. There should be a learning curve, the tutorial you learn in the beginning is pretty straight forward, yet people ignore it when going forward, people shouldn't be shoehorned into playing braindead easy content because someone doesnt like to read tooltips or take the tutorial to heart.
Well millennials are pretty annoying to be honest. That's my generation, and I can't stand it. On a positive note, getting promoted is incredibly easy since the people in your age group has terrible work ethic.
Thats funny, and very off topic, because I could send you a plethora of information proving you wrong. So, moving on.newtinmpls wrote: »People have used to the vet player excuse before, but guess what, vet players actually make up a huge portion of the playerbase , and as demonstrated in other games in the past ( swtor for example ) Ignoring the vet playerbase has caused a huge loss in income for the company running the game. Casual players come and go, vet players stay.
Much snipped and bold added.
Problem here is that distinction is artificial (or at least the phraseology isn't accurate to what is happening).
I am a Casual.
Most of my characters ARE vet (CP...whatever).
I have played for years <snicker.. I love saying that> and I will continue to play (and sub both accounts) as long as ESO lasts. And I suspect it's people like me that are the reason why we have dying, and houses and furniture crafting and all the sorts of "casual" types of things that the PvP or Die crowd simply isn't interested in.
I do think that the game as is, is NOT what the game was marketed as, and people have been frustrated with that.
I think that "players who make up a huge portion of the player base" are the players that keep playing, and there is unfortunately no one "type" of player that is.
Some are PvPers who love trials, leaderboards, raids and getting Emp.
Some like playing "new" characters, and once they get to CP, delete and reroll (not me, I totally cringe at the idea of deleting characters - and I've even done it a couple times).
Some like playing "lots" of characters, maybe even to the point of pseudo-Sim types (MOAR housing, costumes, dying, motifs, pets, individualization) and this is a little me too.
edited for editing.
If you have stuck to the game for a long time you are still a veteran player. You fall into that category. When speaking of casuals I mean people who come in, play a bit, give up because they dont want to learn, or people that come in, play story only and leave to something else. Those are casuals. They come, they go. Of course there are varying different types of players out there, but I think the overwhelming majority can agree that the overland content is way, way too easy. It isnt even remotely difficult enough to even warrant learning your class tbh. We learn the adversity, not through undereasy content.1 -
Everstorm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Overland quests should be easy, period. They are for the story and lore rather than the mechanics and prestige.
If you want tough content, do vet trials, solo vet dungeons, do vMA. There are tons of other things to do than overland quests.
Why? Period is not an argument. And why would you oppose different difficulty settings?
Because a large portion of ESO's player base are casual players who don't run optimized builds. These people actually do find overland content difficult. I've had many friends who I've had to help through random quest bosses or delve bosses simply because they did not have the damage nor sustain to kill them.themselves.
And what is wrong with having to ask for help now and then? If, by your words, there is a large portion of ppl struggling then it should be relatively easy to get a group together.
Regardless, there is also a large group of players that have established characters and that actually enjoy solo questing. If for no other reason than because it's new.
Yes, I can go solo some dungeon for the x-th time. But that's not why I play ESO. I'm a quester/explorer, that's the content I love and it's no skin off your bone if there was a seperate, harder instance/shard for me to enjoy.
I have a full time job but I'm sure I have more free time to waste on gaming than the average family man. But eventually everyone will earn their lvls and cp and learn how to play the game on a higher skill lvl. That shouldn't mean they no longer get to enjoy a very large part of what ESO is about and what TES has always been known for: questing.
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Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Overland quests should be easy, period. They are for the story and lore rather than the mechanics and prestige.
If you want tough content, do vet trials, solo vet dungeons, do vMA. There are tons of other things to do than overland quests.
Why? Period is not an argument. And why would you oppose different difficulty settings?
Because a large portion of ESO's player base are casual players who don't run optimized builds. These people actually do find overland content difficult. I've had many friends who I've had to help through random quest bosses or delve bosses simply because they did not have the damage nor sustain to kill them.themselves.
And what is wrong with having to ask for help now and then? If, by your words, there is a large portion of ppl struggling then it should be relatively easy to get a group together.
Regardless, there is also a large group of players that have established characters and that actually enjoy solo questing. If for no other reason than because it's new.
Yes, I can go solo some dungeon for the x-th time. But that's not why I play ESO. I'm a quester/explorer, that's the content I love and it's no skin off your bone if there was a seperate, harder instance/shard for me to enjoy.
I have a full time job but I'm sure I have more free time to waste on gaming than the average family man. But eventually everyone will earn their lvls and cp and learn how to play the game on a higher skill lvl. That shouldn't mean they no longer get to enjoy a very large part of what ESO is about and what TES has always been known for: questing.
Exactly, there should be a balance in overland content, and right now that balance is non existant. Right now it is cater to people who dont know how to play, refuse to learn how to play, and never want to die, and screw anyone who knows anything about their class. I play w hole 2 hours or so a day, by far not living and breathing the game.Edited by Jade1986 on November 15, 2017 12:53PM0 -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Everyone was happy when the entire game was scaled.
You don't get to have an entire level-scaled game AND have overland content that's difficult for experienced players. You just don't."A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle2 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MasterSpatula wrote: »Everyone was happy when the entire game was scaled.
You don't get to have an entire level-scaled game AND have overland content that's difficult for experienced players. You just don't.
No one is asking for it to be difficult for experinced players, but it would be nice if you could at LEAST pull off 1 rotation before killing an enemy, or if the enemy could , i dunno, use shields or heal themself to prolong the battle. I can use snipe, and if I am lucky poison injection or cliffracer afterward before they are down for the count. No threat what so ever.0 -
Cherryblossom✭✭✭✭✭
✭NPC difficulty has been getting weaker each update. In CWC i can be naked and 2 hit the npcs. Makes the game feel pointless. I liked Imperial City difficulty at release was hard but still doable solo and had roaming challenges.
@Rex-Umbra
Totally agree, having two accounts I know the game with both CP max Geared and No CP just crap gear I pick up. There is absolutely no difference, the game is just easy.
I believe this is truly an issue, increasing difficulty is a teaching and learning device, so currently in this form there is nothing to improve a players skill other than to jump into a HM Dungeon or a Trial completely unprepared.1 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Cherryblossom wrote: »NPC difficulty has been getting weaker each update. In CWC i can be naked and 2 hit the npcs. Makes the game feel pointless. I liked Imperial City difficulty at release was hard but still doable solo and had roaming challenges.
@Rex-Umbra
Totally agree, having two accounts I know the game with both CP max Geared and No CP just crap gear I pick up. There is absolutely no difference, the game is just easy.
I believe this is truly an issue, increasing difficulty is a teaching and learning device, so currently in this form there is nothing to improve a players skill other than to jump into a HM Dungeon or a Trial completely unprepared.
If I wasnt saving up gold for my first house I would make a video of my main with no cp allocated, and respecced so no skill points wer spent with no points into stamina, and I guarantee I could still destroy everything. It really is a problem, unfortunately tho ZoS is content making it so easy that you can face roll through everything.0 -
BuddyAces✭✭✭✭✭
✭The problem seems to lay in the fact that when a new dlc/chapter/part of the game gets released, the only thing that represents a challenge is the trial or the 4 man dungeons on vet HM. What some folks don't seem to understand is that for a lot of folks, this is their first MMO or they are new to this one and don't know how to play. This is the most common denominator(sp) in the game and it would stupid for ZOS not to cater to them. The majority of people would quit if they roflstomped over and over by the first set of mobs they encounter.
IMO they should at least throw in a section of their newly released stuff that is dedicated to people with max cp and good gear, folks who can basically 2 hit any mob. I would be shocked if they released anything like an updated craglorn type zone into the game, never going to happen again. But why can't you make a section of the new stuff that's centered for a more group style of play? Like make an island just off the mainland that's a death trap to the unprepared or something like that. A balance between the two I think would make everyone (but folks who whine to whine) happy and I'd love to have some challenging over land content again.They nerfed magsorcs so hard stamsorcs felt it,lol - Somber97866
I'm blown away by the utter stupidity I see here on the daily. - Wrekkedd1 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The problem seems to lay in the fact that when a new dlc/chapter/part of the game gets released, the only thing that represents a challenge is the trial or the 4 man dungeons on vet HM. What some folks don't seem to understand is that for a lot of folks, this is their first MMO or they are new to this one and don't know how to play. This is the most common denominator(sp) in the game and it would stupid for ZOS not to cater to them. The majority of people would quit if they roflstomped over and over by the first set of mobs they encounter.
IMO they should at least throw in a section of their newly released stuff that is dedicated to people with max cp and good gear, folks who can basically 2 hit any mob. I would be shocked if they released anything like an updated craglorn type zone into the game, never going to happen again. But why can't you make a section of the new stuff that's centered for a more group style of play? Like make an island just off the mainland that's a death trap to the unprepared or something like that. A balance between the two I think would make everyone (but folks who whine to whine) happy and I'd love to have some challenging over land content again.
I agree, its funny too, the loading screens even say " fleeing is a perfectly valid tactic if a fight is too hard " but there is no overland content -to- flee from.0 -
theslynx✭✭✭
Sure, it was a string of events, but since launch there was a trend of them to ignore end game players, it is the reason they had the massive loss of players soon after launch, and itis the reason they had a huge loss of players after the whole kotfe and kotet fiasco happened. They admitted the approach was wrong, they admitted that vet players mattered a lot, which is why the lead creative director was fired and a new one was brought in and has since started catering to all player bases, and numbers are steady again. That is what will happen in this game if they continue this " must make as casual as possible and ignore vet players " approach. There should be a learning curve, the tutorial you learn in the beginning is pretty straight forward, yet people ignore it when going forward, people shouldn't be shoehorned into playing braindead easy content because someone doesnt like to read tooltips or take the tutorial to heart.
I disagree, not only in your categorisation of the subtleties that went on with SWTOR, but also in its applicability to this game. (For instance, saying 'we ignored our dedicated players too much but are going to correct that,' is an easy way for developers to score points with the fan base and convince them to consider a second chance, even if it's not necessarily descriptive of what the devs found in analysing poor reception.) What you're discussing here is overland difficulty, but you're conflating the opinions of some vet players that overland content is too easy with 'ignore vet players.' Within this thread, plenty of vet players have argued it isn't; there's also little evidence ESO is totally ignoring vets.
In fact, I think ESO does a pretty good job of trying to respond to vet players, whether it's balance changes (not always done well, but attempted), addition of a robust housing system, new trials and dungeons, adding requested systems like transmutation to reduce the burden of farming perfect gear, work on performance, allowing mods and having a healthy discussion with fans about what's permissible within the mod framework, adding new PvP modes, and so on. I simply do not see a realistic leap in logic required to go from saying overland content is easy to mass departure of veteran players.
Finally, I can think of examples precisely opposite to what you're suggesting in which dramatic difficulty changes in what used to be casual content led to player exodus that harmed the development team. Guild Wars 2's Heart of Thorns expansion significantly increased overland difficulty and made solo play less tenable to progress in the story, which proved to be a misstep, as subsequent fan outcry and player participation numbers showed. They've spent months trying to rework much of the content from HoT as a result so it was less demanding of a group and had a gentler learning curve in place.
Speaking to the tutorial, at least way back when I did it, it completely missed important elements of the game - not just how combat works, but even a vague sense of how the stats work, let alone other game systems. It also does absolutely nothing to prepare you for things like roles. I didn't ignore the tutorial, but I still ended up looking on reddit and other places to understand what was going on and how this was different from other games I had played to that point.
Again, I do agree that something could be done to help vet players get more challenge in solo content. For example, perhaps you could get a status effect in temples that lasts a few hours and makes your character deal a little less damage and take a little more in overland content and delves, in return for a small chance at additional drops from kills. I just don't see any convincing argument being made that all overland content needs to see an increase in difficulty in this thread or any other I've frequented.
This response is way too long. I'm going to do something else. Later.0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Sure, it was a string of events, but since launch there was a trend of them to ignore end game players, it is the reason they had the massive loss of players soon after launch, and itis the reason they had a huge loss of players after the whole kotfe and kotet fiasco happened. They admitted the approach was wrong, they admitted that vet players mattered a lot, which is why the lead creative director was fired and a new one was brought in and has since started catering to all player bases, and numbers are steady again. That is what will happen in this game if they continue this " must make as casual as possible and ignore vet players " approach. There should be a learning curve, the tutorial you learn in the beginning is pretty straight forward, yet people ignore it when going forward, people shouldn't be shoehorned into playing braindead easy content because someone doesnt like to read tooltips or take the tutorial to heart.
I disagree, not only in your categorisation of the subtleties that went on with SWTOR, but also in its applicability to this game. (For instance, saying 'we ignored our dedicated players too much but are going to correct that,' is an easy way for developers to score points with the fan base and convince them to consider a second chance, even if it's not necessarily descriptive of what the devs found in analysing poor reception.) What you're discussing here is overland difficulty, but you're conflating the opinions of some vet players that overland content is too easy with 'ignore vet players.' Within this thread, plenty of vet players have argued it isn't; there's also little evidence ESO is totally ignoring vets.
In fact, I think ESO does a pretty good job of trying to respond to vet players, whether it's balance changes (not always done well, but attempted), addition of a robust housing system, new trials and dungeons, adding requested systems like transmutation to reduce the burden of farming perfect gear, work on performance, allowing mods and having a healthy discussion with fans about what's permissible within the mod framework, adding new PvP modes, and so on. I simply do not see a realistic leap in logic required to go from saying overland content is easy to mass departure of veteran players.
Finally, I can think of examples precisely opposite to what you're suggesting in which dramatic difficulty changes in what used to be casual content led to player exodus that harmed the development team. Guild Wars 2's Heart of Thorns expansion significantly increased overland difficulty and made solo play less tenable to progress in the story, which proved to be a misstep, as subsequent fan outcry and player participation numbers showed. They've spent months trying to rework much of the content from HoT as a result so it was less demanding of a group and had a gentler learning curve in place.
Speaking to the tutorial, at least way back when I did it, it completely missed important elements of the game - not just how combat works, but even a vague sense of how the stats work, let alone other game systems. It also does absolutely nothing to prepare you for things like roles. I didn't ignore the tutorial, but I still ended up looking on reddit and other places to understand what was going on and how this was different from other games I had played to that point.
Again, I do agree that something could be done to help vet players get more challenge in solo content. For example, perhaps you could get a status effect in temples that lasts a few hours and makes your character deal a little less damage and take a little more in overland content and delves, in return for a small chance at additional drops from kills. I just don't see any convincing argument being made that all overland content needs to see an increase in difficulty in this thread or any other I've frequented.
This response is way too long. I'm going to do something else. Later.
They could indeed do a better job explaining the stats in the game, that I will 100% agree, but as the application to this game with swtor, it clearly isnt as bad as swtor was at the peak of the single player centric era of the game, but it is getting there. I can hope it doesnt get there, but dumbing everything down was the first step, and then started the era of no new flashpoints and no new operations for over a year, and nothing for pvp for over 3 years.
The reason I use this example is not because the situation ise xactly the same, but because it is the argument people use of " casual are more important than vet plaers ", and that mindset is what will ultimately cause the game to fail if it is indeed executed. All players matter, which is why there needs to be a difficulty balance in overland, and specifically overland dlc content, because as it is right now, there is no incentive to do overland dlc content aside from the story element, and even that is really negatively effected by having bosses that are pitifully weak and making final boss battles anticlimactic. Content atm is not even easy, it is below easy, if there is even a word for it.Edited by Jade1986 on November 15, 2017 2:20PM1 -
Illurian✭✭✭✭✭
✭Overland quests should be easy, period. They are for the story and lore rather than the mechanics and prestige.
If you want tough content, do vet trials, solo vet dungeons, do vMA. There are tons of other things to do than overland quests.
Why? Period is not an argument. And why would you oppose different difficulty settings?
Because a large portion of ESO's player base are casual players who don't run optimized builds. These people actually do find overland content difficult. I've had many friends who I've had to help through random quest bosses or delve bosses simply because they did not have the damage nor sustain to kill them.themselves.
And what is wrong with having to ask for help now and then? If, by your words, there is a large portion of ppl struggling then it should be relatively easy to get a group together.
There isn't anything wrong with having to ask for help "every now and then", but if you require help for overland content now, imagine if they significantly buffed the damage/survivability of overland bosses. It would make the game unplayable to casual questers that only play the game for the story.Regardless, there is also a large group of players that have established characters and that actually enjoy solo questing. If for no other reason than because it's new.
It can be said that debatably, anyone who has an optimized build and knows how to play and what to look out for will find overland content easy, regardless of whether the content is buffed or not. Even on my un-optimized characters, I find soloing world bosses a (quick) walk in the park, but some people that I know find it ridiculous that I can solo these world bosses. I'm not even a good player. I've never done a flawless run of vMA, and my highest score in vMA is about 480k.
If you buff overland content's health or damage by x amount, it would only mean that it takes players like me y amount more time to clear it. There is hardly a difference (in fact, more of a nuisance than anything else). However, for someone who already finds overland content challenging, that x amount of buff would arguably make the game unplayable for them. If they wanted to play Dark Souls, they would just go and play Dark Souls.Yes, I can go solo some dungeon for the x-th time. But that's not why I play ESO. I'm a quester/explorer, that's the content I love and it's no skin off your bone if there was a seperate, harder instance/shard for me to enjoy.
I have a full time job but I'm sure I have more free time to waste on gaming than the average family man. But eventually everyone will earn their lvls and cp and learn how to play the game on a higher skill lvl. That shouldn't mean they no longer get to enjoy a very large part of what ESO is about and what TES has always been known for: questing.
Right, so exactly because questing is what TES has been known for, it is important that questing is what remains available to the entire population, i.e. it should remain easy to do.
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to having separate instances for different "difficulties" for quests, but that would only cause a larger divide in ESO's map population. What you are essentially asking for is an offline version of ESO, where you can do your quests at the difficulty you want, without having to give a fudge about the rest of the population. Why not go and play Skyrim instead, or any of the other single player games?Edited by Illurian on November 15, 2017 2:41PMKiss the chaos.0 -
monktoasty✭✭✭✭✭It's interesting that so many players don't see ZOS' financial logic here... in most cases, veteran players do not make them anywhere near the money that new players do. New players still have to buy everything: costumes, mount upgrades, etc, etc... but most veteran players typically already have all that, they have their characters set and don't really need anything more. So, what do vet players bring to ESO financially? If they're not constantly making Crown Store purchases, then they're not making ZOS any money. Sad, but true. So why make more content for them if ZOS isn't really getting much in return? It takes development costs to create 'level toggles' and separate instances, etc... and for what return? We saw how Craglorn was a dismal failure that only a very small amount of people enjoyed, they don't want to make a repeat of spending tons of money on content that only a small few will enjoy but in the end bring them little in financial return. Furthermore, creating 'separate servers' would be costly and separate the population even further, which is the last thing an MMO wants to do.
So while veterans complain about difficulty and lack of content for them, realize that this game does not and will never cater to you because by the time you reach veteran level, you're no longer the financial shoulders this game is resting on. As much as people love to think that because they bought a game it should revolve around and cater to them, an MMO game will cater to the majority of players whom are the most financially contributing group. If you don't believe me, just look at the content and changes that have been occurring over the past 12-18 months... you'll see that they're not going out of their way to cater to veteran players and there is a reason for it. While you may not want to see it, and ZOS will never admit it, there are financial reasons why. Not saying all veteran players aren't spending money, but for most players, as their time spent playing the game increases over months, their financial contributions decreases because they gradually acquire everything they want or need.
Also, to
you are living in the past, because 'MMO philosophy' has changed and even ZOS has stated on several occasions that they are 'not like a traditional MMO'. Today's MMO is geared heavily towards casual and solo players, because they are the majority of new MMO players and thus follows the money.Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »From a MMO I expect to meet other players. To be able to form groups to share the experience and to make content easier. And what do I get? Not a single need to get or to lend a helping hand. This direclty contradicts mmo philosophy.
Well said. The days of masochistic mmos are over..Noone has time to spend 5 minutes per encounter finding the best tactic to kill 2 goblins..and taking 6 months to a year to max out a character
Also..the same philosophy is why pvp is eventually ignored by devs...most players simply are not interested in long term pvp..most large mmos see pvpers as a huge minority. This was from day 1..as soon as ultima online create a separate non pvp area the pvp area was dead...while pvp has made a small come back with wow..that eventually died as well as Noone cares.
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Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭monktoasty wrote: »It's interesting that so many players don't see ZOS' financial logic here... in most cases, veteran players do not make them anywhere near the money that new players do. New players still have to buy everything: costumes, mount upgrades, etc, etc... but most veteran players typically already have all that, they have their characters set and don't really need anything more. So, what do vet players bring to ESO financially? If they're not constantly making Crown Store purchases, then they're not making ZOS any money. Sad, but true. So why make more content for them if ZOS isn't really getting much in return? It takes development costs to create 'level toggles' and separate instances, etc... and for what return? We saw how Craglorn was a dismal failure that only a very small amount of people enjoyed, they don't want to make a repeat of spending tons of money on content that only a small few will enjoy but in the end bring them little in financial return. Furthermore, creating 'separate servers' would be costly and separate the population even further, which is the last thing an MMO wants to do.
So while veterans complain about difficulty and lack of content for them, realize that this game does not and will never cater to you because by the time you reach veteran level, you're no longer the financial shoulders this game is resting on. As much as people love to think that because they bought a game it should revolve around and cater to them, an MMO game will cater to the majority of players whom are the most financially contributing group. If you don't believe me, just look at the content and changes that have been occurring over the past 12-18 months... you'll see that they're not going out of their way to cater to veteran players and there is a reason for it. While you may not want to see it, and ZOS will never admit it, there are financial reasons why. Not saying all veteran players aren't spending money, but for most players, as their time spent playing the game increases over months, their financial contributions decreases because they gradually acquire everything they want or need.
Also, to
you are living in the past, because 'MMO philosophy' has changed and even ZOS has stated on several occasions that they are 'not like a traditional MMO'. Today's MMO is geared heavily towards casual and solo players, because they are the majority of new MMO players and thus follows the money.Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »From a MMO I expect to meet other players. To be able to form groups to share the experience and to make content easier. And what do I get? Not a single need to get or to lend a helping hand. This direclty contradicts mmo philosophy.
Well said. The days of masochistic mmos are over..Noone has time to spend 5 minutes per encounter finding the best tactic to kill 2 goblins..and taking 6 months to a year to max out a character
Also..the same philosophy is why pvp is eventually ignored by devs...most players simply are not interested in long term pvp..most large mmos see pvpers as a huge minority. This was from day 1..as soon as ultima online create a separate non pvp area the pvp area was dead...while pvp has made a small come back with wow..that eventually died as well as Noone cares.
Funny, they ignored pvp in other games and started losing money, because, fancy that, the majority of players enjoy doing more than one thing. Lack of variety and challenge are what kills mmos. Single player story ez mode alone does not and has not sustained player bases in mmos. And no one is asking for auridon to have 5 minute goblin battles, but rather to increase difficulty for dlc content because the vast majority of players will have leveled toons and a vague understanding of their class by then. And each zone should get a bit more difficult in vanilla as well, even if everything is scaled.Edited by Jade1986 on November 15, 2017 2:52PM0 -
Everstorm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Right, so exactly because questing is what TES has been known for, it is important that questing is what remains available to the entire population, i.e. it should remain easy to do.
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to having separate instances for different "difficulties" for quests, but that would only cause a larger divide in ESO's map population. What you are essentially asking for is an offline version of ESO, where you can do your quests at the difficulty you want, without having to give a fudge about the rest of the population. Why not go and play Skyrim instead, or any of the other single player games?
Questing should be like a mini story. And a good fantasy/adventure story should have memorable enemies and an ultimate nemisis encounter to work towards. Killing said enemy in 10-30 seconds with zero chance to fail is not memorable.
And about SWOTR: I loved that game, Sith Juggernaut is still my favorite class in all the MMOs I have played. But SWOTR becoming way to easy is exactly the reason why I no longer play it.
Edited by Everstorm on November 15, 2017 2:55PM2 -
Rescue78✭✭✭Flameheart wrote: »Final Fantasy XI would like to have a word with you.
Nothing like getting your [snip] kicked by a mob that was "too Weak" lol
[Edited to remove profanity]
Edited by ZOS_KatP on November 15, 2017 3:30PM0 -
Illurian✭✭✭✭✭
✭Right, so exactly because questing is what TES has been known for, it is important that questing is what remains available to the entire population, i.e. it should remain easy to do.
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to having separate instances for different "difficulties" for quests, but that would only cause a larger divide in ESO's map population. What you are essentially asking for is an offline version of ESO, where you can do your quests at the difficulty you want, without having to give a fudge about the rest of the population. Why not go and play Skyrim instead, or any of the other single player games?
Questing should be like a mini story. And a good fantasy/adventure story should have memorable enemies and an ultimate nemisis encounter to work towards. Killing said enemy in 10-30 seconds with zero chance to fail is not memorable.
And about SWOTR: I loved that game, Sith Juggernaut is still my favorite class in all the MMOs I have played. But SWOTR becoming way to easy is exactly the reason why I no longer play it.
Way to simply not address the rest of my post, lol.
Again, you are ignoring the fact that what is an easy 10-30 second fight for players like you or me could be an agonizing 5-10 minute fight for someone who isn't as well optimized or well versed with the game (or games in general).
You finding it easy is a moot point. As I stated before, difficulty is subjective and cannot (and should not) be used as an objective gauge for content.
If the storyline/difficulty of quests isn't enough for you, then perhaps it'd indeed be a good idea for you to move on to something you find more challenging.Kiss the chaos.0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I like how Witcher 3 has done this (granted, it’s not an MMO). The easiest difficulty is story mode. The description even says so. You basically can’t die to anything. Then difficulty can be gradually increased until you choose Death March - the 5th available difficulty. Which is basically even the standard mobs one or two shotting you if you get hit, the more powerful bosses can even one shot you through a Quen shield. I’ve beaten the game on any of these. So much fun!!Edited by Feanor on November 15, 2017 3:39PMMain characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Right, so exactly because questing is what TES has been known for, it is important that questing is what remains available to the entire population, i.e. it should remain easy to do.
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to having separate instances for different "difficulties" for quests, but that would only cause a larger divide in ESO's map population. What you are essentially asking for is an offline version of ESO, where you can do your quests at the difficulty you want, without having to give a fudge about the rest of the population. Why not go and play Skyrim instead, or any of the other single player games?
Questing should be like a mini story. And a good fantasy/adventure story should have memorable enemies and an ultimate nemisis encounter to work towards. Killing said enemy in 10-30 seconds with zero chance to fail is not memorable.
And about SWOTR: I loved that game, Sith Juggernaut is still my favorite class in all the MMOs I have played. But SWOTR becoming way to easy is exactly the reason why I no longer play it.
Way to simply not address the rest of my post, lol.
Again, you are ignoring the fact that what is an easy 10-30 second fight for players like you or me could be an agonizing 5-10 minute fight for someone who isn't as well optimized or well versed with the game (or games in general).
You finding it easy is a moot point. As I stated before, difficulty is subjective and cannot (and should not) be used as an objective gauge for content.
If the storyline/difficulty of quests isn't enough for you, then perhaps it'd indeed be a good idea for you to move on to something you find more challenging.
10-30 seconds is being generous, i havent met a overland mob or quest boss that has lasted more than 5 seconds in a very long time.0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭phileunderx2 wrote: »I hate all the ccing too. Especially the mobs with the traps that they can throw a mile away with pinpoint accuracy.
i've never seen a game development team so obsessed with snares.
at least its not obsession with knockbacks/knockdowns like bioware has in swtor.
but back to the topic. something that has been brought up. over and over. but you all keep ignoring it. not everyone plays at the same skill level. not even when they are no longer new. one person's brain dead easy is another person's just challenging enough, is another person's getting a little too difficult. and before you go into the derisive "stop light attack spamming" that is not necessarily the case either - some people are not quick at hitting their abilities, etc etc. because overworld content is the bulk of the game, ZoS has to make it as accessible to as many people as possible.
so by all means, keep asking for difficulty slider. but STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT HOW BRAIN DEAD EASY THE GAME IS. your experience is NOT everyone's experience, its not even experience of most.MasterSpatula wrote: »Everyone was happy when the entire game was scaled.
You don't get to have an entire level-scaled game AND have overland content that's difficult for experienced players. You just don't.
No one is asking for it to be difficult for experinced players, but it would be nice if you could at LEAST pull off 1 rotation before killing an enemy, or if the enemy could , i dunno, use shields or heal themself to prolong the battle. I can use snipe, and if I am lucky poison injection or cliffracer afterward before they are down for the count. No threat what so ever.
here is the problem with this setup. lets assume that as a veteran player, you do 30k dps. average player who looked up the builds and bothered to get at least somewhat decent gear will do maybe 10k dps. a leveling player questing in whatever gear was rewarded to them by quests? is going to do about 5k dps. if you are not seeing where I'm going with this yet, lets do some math.
a full rotation for you = 3 rotations for a max level average lvl 50 player. and 6 rotations for a leveling player. for each. and every. single. mob. now... consider that a lot of them come in pairs. or more. do you see where I'm going with this now?
selective difficulty would be just fine. and btw, people complaining about swtor being easy? have OBVIOUSLY never tried doing chapters on veteran, let alone master. they are anything BUT easy. the problem with swtor is not the difficulty. its the lack of content in general. for the last few years, other then few hours of story here and there, all the other content is basically regearing through the same ops and flashpoints that in case of some of them - were there from launch. THAT is why the game started to lose players. not a mere difficulty. making the story progression far to linear and everything else - nonexistant. little to no content.Edited by Linaleah on November 15, 2017 3:56PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***1 -
Illurian✭✭✭✭✭
✭Right, so exactly because questing is what TES has been known for, it is important that questing is what remains available to the entire population, i.e. it should remain easy to do.
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to having separate instances for different "difficulties" for quests, but that would only cause a larger divide in ESO's map population. What you are essentially asking for is an offline version of ESO, where you can do your quests at the difficulty you want, without having to give a fudge about the rest of the population. Why not go and play Skyrim instead, or any of the other single player games?
Questing should be like a mini story. And a good fantasy/adventure story should have memorable enemies and an ultimate nemisis encounter to work towards. Killing said enemy in 10-30 seconds with zero chance to fail is not memorable.
And about SWOTR: I loved that game, Sith Juggernaut is still my favorite class in all the MMOs I have played. But SWOTR becoming way to easy is exactly the reason why I no longer play it.
Way to simply not address the rest of my post, lol.
Again, you are ignoring the fact that what is an easy 10-30 second fight for players like you or me could be an agonizing 5-10 minute fight for someone who isn't as well optimized or well versed with the game (or games in general).
You finding it easy is a moot point. As I stated before, difficulty is subjective and cannot (and should not) be used as an objective gauge for content.
If the storyline/difficulty of quests isn't enough for you, then perhaps it'd indeed be a good idea for you to move on to something you find more challenging.
10-30 seconds is being generous, i havent met a overland mob or quest boss that has lasted more than 5 seconds in a very long time.
The actual time is arbitrary. The point still stands.Kiss the chaos.1 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭phileunderx2 wrote: »I hate all the ccing too. Especially the mobs with the traps that they can throw a mile away with pinpoint accuracy.
i've never seen a game development team so obsessed with snares.
at least its not obsession with knockbacks/knockdowns like bioware has in swtor.
but back to the topic. something that has been brought up. over and over. but you all keep ignoring it. not everyone plays at the same skill level. not even when they are no longer new. one person's brain dead easy is another person's just challenging enough, is another person's getting a little too difficult. and before you go into the derisive "stop light attack spamming" that is not necessarily the case either - some people are not quick at hitting their abilities, etc etc. because overworld content is the bulk of the game, ZoS has to make it as accessible to as many people as possible.
so by all means, keep asking for difficulty slider. but STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT HOW BRAIN DEAD EASY THE GAME IS. your experience is NOT everyone's experience, its not even experience of most.MasterSpatula wrote: »Everyone was happy when the entire game was scaled.
You don't get to have an entire level-scaled game AND have overland content that's difficult for experienced players. You just don't.
No one is asking for it to be difficult for experinced players, but it would be nice if you could at LEAST pull off 1 rotation before killing an enemy, or if the enemy could , i dunno, use shields or heal themself to prolong the battle. I can use snipe, and if I am lucky poison injection or cliffracer afterward before they are down for the count. No threat what so ever.
here is the problem with this setup. lets assume that as a veteran player, you do 30k dps. average player who looked up the builds and bothered to get at least somewhat decent gear will do maybe 10k dps. a leveling player questing in whatever gear was rewarded to them by quests? is going to do about 5k dps. if you are not seeing where I'm going with this yet, lets do some math.
a full rotation for you = 3 rotations for a max level average lvl 50 player. and 6 rotations for a leveling player. for each. and every. single. mob. now... consider that a lot of them come in pairs. or more. do you see where I'm going with this now?
selective difficulty would be just fine. and btw, people complaining about swtor being easy? have OBVIOUSLY never tried doing chapters on veteran, let alone master. they are anything BUT easy. the problem with swtor is not the difficulty. its the lack of content in general. for the last few years, other then few hours of story here and there, all the other content is basically regearing through the same ops and flashpoints that in case of some of them - were there from launch. THAT is why the game started to lose players. not a mere difficulty. making the story progression far to linear and everything else - nonexistant. little to no content.
1 Rotation takes 5 seconds, so by your math a new player would spend around 30 secnds per mob, that is not asking a lot.Right, so exactly because questing is what TES has been known for, it is important that questing is what remains available to the entire population, i.e. it should remain easy to do.
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to having separate instances for different "difficulties" for quests, but that would only cause a larger divide in ESO's map population. What you are essentially asking for is an offline version of ESO, where you can do your quests at the difficulty you want, without having to give a fudge about the rest of the population. Why not go and play Skyrim instead, or any of the other single player games?
Questing should be like a mini story. And a good fantasy/adventure story should have memorable enemies and an ultimate nemisis encounter to work towards. Killing said enemy in 10-30 seconds with zero chance to fail is not memorable.
And about SWOTR: I loved that game, Sith Juggernaut is still my favorite class in all the MMOs I have played. But SWOTR becoming way to easy is exactly the reason why I no longer play it.
Way to simply not address the rest of my post, lol.
Again, you are ignoring the fact that what is an easy 10-30 second fight for players like you or me could be an agonizing 5-10 minute fight for someone who isn't as well optimized or well versed with the game (or games in general).
You finding it easy is a moot point. As I stated before, difficulty is subjective and cannot (and should not) be used as an objective gauge for content.
If the storyline/difficulty of quests isn't enough for you, then perhaps it'd indeed be a good idea for you to move on to something you find more challenging.
10-30 seconds is being generous, i havent met a overland mob or quest boss that has lasted more than 5 seconds in a very long time.
The actual time is arbitrary. The point still stands.
Let me put it this way, with 98 spell damage, yes, 98, I can kill mobs no issue, and even simulating a lot of mess ups, same. Everyone has more than 98 spell damage. -everyone-.0 -
Illurian✭✭✭✭✭
✭Let me put it this way, with 98 spell damage, yes, 98, I can kill mobs no issue, and even simulating a lot of mess ups, same. Everyone has more than 98 spell damage. -everyone-.
Yes, which is why quests are currently not much of an issue for most players.
Some delve bosses, however, can cause some troubles to some players.Kiss the chaos.0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭phileunderx2 wrote: »I hate all the ccing too. Especially the mobs with the traps that they can throw a mile away with pinpoint accuracy.
i've never seen a game development team so obsessed with snares.
at least its not obsession with knockbacks/knockdowns like bioware has in swtor.
but back to the topic. something that has been brought up. over and over. but you all keep ignoring it. not everyone plays at the same skill level. not even when they are no longer new. one person's brain dead easy is another person's just challenging enough, is another person's getting a little too difficult. and before you go into the derisive "stop light attack spamming" that is not necessarily the case either - some people are not quick at hitting their abilities, etc etc. because overworld content is the bulk of the game, ZoS has to make it as accessible to as many people as possible.
so by all means, keep asking for difficulty slider. but STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT HOW BRAIN DEAD EASY THE GAME IS. your experience is NOT everyone's experience, its not even experience of most.MasterSpatula wrote: »Everyone was happy when the entire game was scaled.
You don't get to have an entire level-scaled game AND have overland content that's difficult for experienced players. You just don't.
No one is asking for it to be difficult for experinced players, but it would be nice if you could at LEAST pull off 1 rotation before killing an enemy, or if the enemy could , i dunno, use shields or heal themself to prolong the battle. I can use snipe, and if I am lucky poison injection or cliffracer afterward before they are down for the count. No threat what so ever.
here is the problem with this setup. lets assume that as a veteran player, you do 30k dps. average player who looked up the builds and bothered to get at least somewhat decent gear will do maybe 10k dps. a leveling player questing in whatever gear was rewarded to them by quests? is going to do about 5k dps. if you are not seeing where I'm going with this yet, lets do some math.
a full rotation for you = 3 rotations for a max level average lvl 50 player. and 6 rotations for a leveling player. for each. and every. single. mob. now... consider that a lot of them come in pairs. or more. do you see where I'm going with this now?
selective difficulty would be just fine. and btw, people complaining about swtor being easy? have OBVIOUSLY never tried doing chapters on veteran, let alone master. they are anything BUT easy. the problem with swtor is not the difficulty. its the lack of content in general. for the last few years, other then few hours of story here and there, all the other content is basically regearing through the same ops and flashpoints that in case of some of them - were there from launch. THAT is why the game started to lose players. not a mere difficulty. making the story progression far to linear and everything else - nonexistant. little to no content.
1 Rotation takes 5 seconds, so by your math a new player would spend around 30 secnds per mob, that is not asking a lot.Right, so exactly because questing is what TES has been known for, it is important that questing is what remains available to the entire population, i.e. it should remain easy to do.
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to having separate instances for different "difficulties" for quests, but that would only cause a larger divide in ESO's map population. What you are essentially asking for is an offline version of ESO, where you can do your quests at the difficulty you want, without having to give a fudge about the rest of the population. Why not go and play Skyrim instead, or any of the other single player games?
Questing should be like a mini story. And a good fantasy/adventure story should have memorable enemies and an ultimate nemisis encounter to work towards. Killing said enemy in 10-30 seconds with zero chance to fail is not memorable.
And about SWOTR: I loved that game, Sith Juggernaut is still my favorite class in all the MMOs I have played. But SWOTR becoming way to easy is exactly the reason why I no longer play it.
Way to simply not address the rest of my post, lol.
Again, you are ignoring the fact that what is an easy 10-30 second fight for players like you or me could be an agonizing 5-10 minute fight for someone who isn't as well optimized or well versed with the game (or games in general).
You finding it easy is a moot point. As I stated before, difficulty is subjective and cannot (and should not) be used as an objective gauge for content.
If the storyline/difficulty of quests isn't enough for you, then perhaps it'd indeed be a good idea for you to move on to something you find more challenging.
10-30 seconds is being generous, i havent met a overland mob or quest boss that has lasted more than 5 seconds in a very long time.
The actual time is arbitrary. The point still stands.
Let me put it this way, with 98 spell damage, yes, 98, I can kill mobs no issue, and even simulating a lot of mess ups, same. Everyone has more than 98 spell damage. -everyone-.
those 30 seconds add up. surviving a group of those mobs adds up as well. moreover - let me try to reiterate. AGAIN. there are players who do VMA in crafted purples. there are players who can NOT do VMA even when they farm up better sets and gold their gear. what YOU are asking for is not even a bloody toggle. most of us would wecome a difficulty toggle, slider, what have you. you are asking for the entire game to be scaled for players that can do VMA in non optimized purples without realizing, or refusing to see it anyways, that for the rest of us who cannot do VMA - the game will become unplayable.
so yes. it is too much to ask.Edited by Linaleah on November 15, 2017 4:35PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***4 -
Everstorm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Right, so exactly because questing is what TES has been known for, it is important that questing is what remains available to the entire population, i.e. it should remain easy to do.
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to having separate instances for different "difficulties" for quests, but that would only cause a larger divide in ESO's map population. What you are essentially asking for is an offline version of ESO, where you can do your quests at the difficulty you want, without having to give a fudge about the rest of the population. Why not go and play Skyrim instead, or any of the other single player games?
Questing should be like a mini story. And a good fantasy/adventure story should have memorable enemies and an ultimate nemisis encounter to work towards. Killing said enemy in 10-30 seconds with zero chance to fail is not memorable.
And about SWOTR: I loved that game, Sith Juggernaut is still my favorite class in all the MMOs I have played. But SWOTR becoming way to easy is exactly the reason why I no longer play it.
Way to simply not address the rest of my post, lol.
Again, you are ignoring the fact that what is an easy 10-30 second fight for players like you or me could be an agonizing 5-10 minute fight for someone who isn't as well optimized or well versed with the game (or games in general).
You finding it easy is a moot point. As I stated before, difficulty is subjective and cannot (and should not) be used as an objective gauge for content.
If the storyline/difficulty of quests isn't enough for you, then perhaps it'd indeed be a good idea for you to move on to something you find more challenging.
I didn't respond to the rest of your message because you are ignoring what I say which is that I don't want to make the game harder for newer players. I just want options for more veteran players. But, in general, questing should not be easy, it should be challenging but doable, for every type of player. Keeping one set difficulty will make it impossible to please all type of players. They added two different difficulty levels to other PvE content, why not general questing?
And telling people to just leave the game is really, really lame.Edited by Everstorm on November 15, 2017 4:48PM3 -
Illurian✭✭✭✭✭
✭Right, so exactly because questing is what TES has been known for, it is important that questing is what remains available to the entire population, i.e. it should remain easy to do.
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to having separate instances for different "difficulties" for quests, but that would only cause a larger divide in ESO's map population. What you are essentially asking for is an offline version of ESO, where you can do your quests at the difficulty you want, without having to give a fudge about the rest of the population. Why not go and play Skyrim instead, or any of the other single player games?
Questing should be like a mini story. And a good fantasy/adventure story should have memorable enemies and an ultimate nemisis encounter to work towards. Killing said enemy in 10-30 seconds with zero chance to fail is not memorable.
And about SWOTR: I loved that game, Sith Juggernaut is still my favorite class in all the MMOs I have played. But SWOTR becoming way to easy is exactly the reason why I no longer play it.
Way to simply not address the rest of my post, lol.
Again, you are ignoring the fact that what is an easy 10-30 second fight for players like you or me could be an agonizing 5-10 minute fight for someone who isn't as well optimized or well versed with the game (or games in general).
You finding it easy is a moot point. As I stated before, difficulty is subjective and cannot (and should not) be used as an objective gauge for content.
If the storyline/difficulty of quests isn't enough for you, then perhaps it'd indeed be a good idea for you to move on to something you find more challenging.
I didn't respond to the rest of your message because you are ignoring what I say which is that I don't want to make the game harder for newer players. I just want options for more veteran players. But, in general, questing should not be easy, it should be challenging but doable, for every type of player. Keeping one set difficulty will make it impossible to please all type of players. They added two different difficulty levels to other PvE content, why not general questing?
And telling people to just leave the game is really, really lame.
You didn't just talk about having more options, though. I responded to the rest of your post point by point.
As I said, I wouldn't necessarily be against having a separate "veteran" map option with more buffed creatures, but that will only further divide the map population.
Throwing a tantrum that overland content, objectively the most accessible and easiest content in all MMOs, being too easy is equally as lame.Kiss the chaos.0 -
Everstorm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Right, so exactly because questing is what TES has been known for, it is important that questing is what remains available to the entire population, i.e. it should remain easy to do.
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to having separate instances for different "difficulties" for quests, but that would only cause a larger divide in ESO's map population. What you are essentially asking for is an offline version of ESO, where you can do your quests at the difficulty you want, without having to give a fudge about the rest of the population. Why not go and play Skyrim instead, or any of the other single player games?
Questing should be like a mini story. And a good fantasy/adventure story should have memorable enemies and an ultimate nemisis encounter to work towards. Killing said enemy in 10-30 seconds with zero chance to fail is not memorable.
And about SWOTR: I loved that game, Sith Juggernaut is still my favorite class in all the MMOs I have played. But SWOTR becoming way to easy is exactly the reason why I no longer play it.
Way to simply not address the rest of my post, lol.
Again, you are ignoring the fact that what is an easy 10-30 second fight for players like you or me could be an agonizing 5-10 minute fight for someone who isn't as well optimized or well versed with the game (or games in general).
You finding it easy is a moot point. As I stated before, difficulty is subjective and cannot (and should not) be used as an objective gauge for content.
If the storyline/difficulty of quests isn't enough for you, then perhaps it'd indeed be a good idea for you to move on to something you find more challenging.
I didn't respond to the rest of your message because you are ignoring what I say which is that I don't want to make the game harder for newer players. I just want options for more veteran players. But, in general, questing should not be easy, it should be challenging but doable, for every type of player. Keeping one set difficulty will make it impossible to please all type of players. They added two different difficulty levels to other PvE content, why not general questing?
And telling people to just leave the game is really, really lame.
You didn't just talk about having more options, though. I responded to the rest of your post point by point.
As I said, I wouldn't necessarily be against having a separate "veteran" map option with more buffed creatures, but that will only further divide the map population.
Throwing a tantrum that overland content, objectively the most accessible and easiest content in all MMOs, being too easy is equally as lame.
The rest of your points was based on your belief that I want to game to be harder for everyone which is simply not true. And how am I throwing a tantrum? Or is every opinion that doesn't align with your own a tantrum?
I want to enjoy the game and I'm voicing my opinion on how the game would be more enjoyable for me and I'm not alone in that view. I also want you to enjoy the game, and the people you are defending, and your grandmother's neighbor's nephew's girlfriend too. I want as many people to enjoy this game as possible so there is enough revenue for the Devs to keep adding stuff to the game.
As far as I can see the only concern we really disagree about is the division of the map population but I'm convinced that like minded players will find each other anyway.2 -
Illurian✭✭✭✭✭
✭Right, so exactly because questing is what TES has been known for, it is important that questing is what remains available to the entire population, i.e. it should remain easy to do.
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to having separate instances for different "difficulties" for quests, but that would only cause a larger divide in ESO's map population. What you are essentially asking for is an offline version of ESO, where you can do your quests at the difficulty you want, without having to give a fudge about the rest of the population. Why not go and play Skyrim instead, or any of the other single player games?
Questing should be like a mini story. And a good fantasy/adventure story should have memorable enemies and an ultimate nemisis encounter to work towards. Killing said enemy in 10-30 seconds with zero chance to fail is not memorable.
And about SWOTR: I loved that game, Sith Juggernaut is still my favorite class in all the MMOs I have played. But SWOTR becoming way to easy is exactly the reason why I no longer play it.
Way to simply not address the rest of my post, lol.
Again, you are ignoring the fact that what is an easy 10-30 second fight for players like you or me could be an agonizing 5-10 minute fight for someone who isn't as well optimized or well versed with the game (or games in general).
You finding it easy is a moot point. As I stated before, difficulty is subjective and cannot (and should not) be used as an objective gauge for content.
If the storyline/difficulty of quests isn't enough for you, then perhaps it'd indeed be a good idea for you to move on to something you find more challenging.
I didn't respond to the rest of your message because you are ignoring what I say which is that I don't want to make the game harder for newer players. I just want options for more veteran players. But, in general, questing should not be easy, it should be challenging but doable, for every type of player. Keeping one set difficulty will make it impossible to please all type of players. They added two different difficulty levels to other PvE content, why not general questing?
And telling people to just leave the game is really, really lame.
You didn't just talk about having more options, though. I responded to the rest of your post point by point.
As I said, I wouldn't necessarily be against having a separate "veteran" map option with more buffed creatures, but that will only further divide the map population.
Throwing a tantrum that overland content, objectively the most accessible and easiest content in all MMOs, being too easy is equally as lame.
The rest of your points was based on your belief that I want to game to be harder for everyone which is simply not true. And how am I throwing a tantrum? Or is every opinion that doesn't align with your own a tantrum?
I want to enjoy the game and I'm voicing my opinion on how the game would be more enjoyable for me and I'm not alone in that view. I also want you to enjoy the game, and the people you are defending, and your grandmother's neighbor's nephew's girlfriend too. I want as many people to enjoy this game as possible so there is enough revenue for the Devs to keep adding stuff to the game.
As far as I can see the only concern we really disagree about is the division of the map population but I'm convinced that like minded players will find each other anyway.
Yes, upon further review our interests do actually align. The more I think about it, the more a vet/normal overland map option would work. It gives an option for both casual and veteran players, and options are always good.
My issues were more with the people who insisted on straight up buffs on overland content.Kiss the chaos.3 -
Iselin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Next popular cause after difficulty is increased: "Why did you nerf grinding? It's too slow! We need more XP for mob kills or at least an instant-50 token."
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