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Soul Assault needs counterplay
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DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Why every threads about soul assault since Homestead eventually just moves to constant bickering between people so bad they cant kill anything with it and people not actually using build countered by it. It is pretty much simple.
Soul assault counters- dodge roll defense of medium by being undodgeable and by forcing you to block (cant block when dodging and vice versa)
- mobility of medium by applying huge snare and by forcing you to selfsnare yourself with block
- kiting capability of medium by applying huge snare and working from long distance
- healing capability of medium by dealing large amount of damage unhealable by simple vigor or too early use of rally
- resource sustain capability of medium by forcing you to block to both disable regen and drain resources (from blocking and healing)
It literally disables everything that means to be medium armor build for 4 seconds (2 seconds on NB). So no, if you cant kill people with it you are either bad or they are good enough that they could strip naked to bare first and survive fighting you for 4sec. Which, lets be real, is not that much difficult. Does not mean it should be happening. I am sure, plenty of shield (stack) users would change their playstyle and build to not die if there was ulti that disabled shields for 4sec. Same goes for all block users if they were unable to block for 4sec (and that is just one part of their defense), yet it would still be pretty stupid counter. It is also amplified greatly if used by many opponents, allowing any group (of any skill) to focus the medium armor builds, arguably the weakest builds when under focus of undodgeable abilities.
And no it is not build issue. Building medium armor with 30k resistance, shield and 30k hp is not solution. That is one of the roots of problem why everybody is heavy. It is simply pointless to play tanky medium. It is not designed to be tanky and glass cannon builds worked just fine for several years of this game. "Dont be glass cannon" is not saying anything more than would be saying "dont play DK" to everyone that complains DK are bad now or "dont play pvp" to everyone complaining about lags or no sounds.
Someone can be a glass canon; that's their option and there is nothing wrong with that...
But they better be ready to have their faces melted off by Soul Assault if they go down that road; with the glass canon builds, you can melt someone, but you can be melted as well...
That's something that you sign off on if you choose to go all in on damage...
Edit: there are pro's and cons to everything; these Medium Armor builds can potentially be beasts in close quarters combat so its not like they are filled with nothing but negatives; you cant have it all...
How about magicka builds, which can build for full damage ("glass cannon") and capitalize on that by having 15k spammable dmg shields? Do they get "melted" like medium armor builds that try to build for full damage?
Don't answer, rhetorical question. Just think about it for a while.
And no, this isn't shield QQ, it's just lamenting that medium armor can't build for full dmg (anymore) like magicka builds can.
Your rhetorical questions is patently wrong due to the extremely narrow view you seem to have in this.
By definition a shield stacking Sorc will not be doing damage 1/3 of the time since they will be stacking shields. If they do take damage then it become half their time merely taking care of themselves.
Second, and most important, a stam player who knows what they're doing an easily sustain their health in 1vX.
I suggest those complaining because something hurts to much or they are bullied by sorcs start looking at some vids to, hopefully, find ways to become a better player and stead of QQ in the forums asking for the game to be nerfed to their skill level.
It's really fabulous seeing a skilled stam with player in action. Sad to see those on the early side of the learning curve qq in the forums.
And a stam build spends 1/3 (if not more) of the time dodge rolling/recasting Vigor (which btw has shorter duration than dmg shields). What is your point?
There's no comparison between the survivability of a high dmg non-S&B medium armor build & a high dmg magicka build, they're on entirely different levels - just look at how the stamina defensive skills scale compared to magicka ones.
1k stamina=19 health/second for Vigor
1k magicka=220 to shield strength
Magicka defensive skills are literally over 10 times more efficient.
My Vigor heals for an average 8k over 5 seconds~ on my high damage bowblade, 10k over 5 seconds~ on my melee stamblade with 5k weapon dmg. A single shield cast (instant, not over 5 seconds) is typically over 50% more efficient, even before accounting the fact that you gain an average 15%~ more mitigation (compared to medium armor's base non-S&B mitigation) by removing crits from opponent
The only way for a stam build to "easily sustain their health" in 1vX (or even 1v1 against opponents with lots of undodgeable damage) is to go S&B and outheal damage while blocking. That's just a mathematical fact.
Dodge rolling used to be enough to help survive things, but those days are long gone.
@DDuke
If you are going to make such claims using actual numbers please try to be reasonably accurate.
If you are going to accuse others of being inaccurate, then atleast have the courtesy of being accurate yourself.Outside of PvP (PvP numbers would be comparable since the heal and shield are reduced by the same margin.}
Resolving Vigor costs barely 3k and heals for 11.4k over 5 seconds
Resolving Vigor costs 3160 stamina in a 5/1/1 setup and has a tooltip of 15 729/5s with 4779 weapon damage & 34 754 stamina.Harness Magicka costs 4k and protects for 10k for up to 6 seconds, can be less.
Harness Magicka costs 3920 magicka and has a tooltip of 22 343 (+30%=29 046) with 5/1/1 setup with 53 872 magicka and 2591 spell dmg (latter doesn't affect shield strength, fully aware of that).Hardened Ward costs 3300 and protects for 11k for up to 6 seconds, can be less.
Hardened Ward costs 2984 with the same build & protects for 23 670 (+33%=31 481)Deadly Cloak costs less than 3k and reduces AoE damage by 25% for 15 seconds (add does a little damage).
What does Deadly Cloak have to do with anything?Numbers can be slightly different depending on the build.
"slightly"(tm)So it is clear that the numbers you presented are not even close to anything actual. Both shields and vigor are comparable in HP returned/protected. It is not clear were you got the numbers that a shield is 11x stronger than vigor per resource cost. That is clearly false.
Numbers I presented are accurate - get 1k more stamina/magicka on your character and see how tooltips change, it's not rocket science.
But in case you misunderstood: casting shield every second is (atleast) 10x stronger defense than relying on Vigor ticks to survive.
1k stamina/100 weapon dmg=19 health/second (not 19 over 5 seconds) & 1k magicka=+220 shield strength, as I wrote on first page of this thread.
If you compare whole tooltips, casting one shield is almost twice as strong as what Vigor returns over 5 seconds.The fact remains, my point, that a skilled player has great survival in PvP. As I stated, watch some videos. It is fabulous watching a skilled stamina player or two in a fight against players 3x their numbers and clearing the field. You just might learn something.
Enjoy the game and have a good day.
Well, I happen to be one making such videos. I'm fully aware what different builds are capable of and what they aren't, and survivability definitely isn't the strong suit of any full dmg medium build, and even less so for sustain builds, if they don't run defensive sets or S&B (while full dmg magicka builds still get great survivability with 15k+ shields).
A damage heavy stamina build capitalizes on dealing with their opponents quick enough so that your own survivability doesn't become an issue. Pressured, these high damage stam builds crumble unless they run S&B.
Lmao.
My numbers are accurate. The ever so slight difference between your vigor cost and mine would clearly be explained with 7pc medium due to the extra stam cost reduction. It's fairly common for stam in medium armor to go a full 7 or 6/1.
Sure they do, if there's no other option (e.g. Marksman+Morag bow builds). Otherwise 5/1/1 always performs better for high damage builds, thanks to undaunted passive.Your also showing a higher number for the vigor heal. Thx, but my guess is you have a few Co into increasing healing or are getting a healing buff.
Never the less, the higher number your getting from vigor proves my point even further. Thx again.
Hey, as I said it's important to be accurate.
For the record: that's with zero CPs into +healing (as explained before, only a fool would put points there) and without Minor/Major Mending or Vitality as stamblades like me don't have feasible ways of accessing those buffs.
Major Brutality, Minor Berserk & weapon dmg enchant are the only buffs affecting the tooltip.As for your your different numbers for the shields it's clearly explain by gear build and CP. anyone. Funny how you even say this isn't rocket science yet you say I am inaccurate. What a hypocritical joke. Lol
Sorry, I don't get that. I thought we were comparing a maximum damage magicka build to a maximum damage stamina build - seems fairly straightforward to me.Of course your way to wiggle around the facts is a magicks user could cast the shield every second. Yea. He isn't doing anything else but burning his magicka.
Sure, at that moment the high damage magicka build might not be doing any damage, but atleast the magicka build survives - unlike a medium build that just gets blown out with all the undodgeable [snip].
That's kind of the entire point.You were stating a difference of 11x which by even your recent numbers you proved yourself flat wrong. Interesting how that works. Silly to argue about someone not doing any damage to you.
I said that magicka abilities scale better and that 1k magicka=+220 shield strength & 1k stamina=19 health/second.
Per second, that is 1:11 ratio in terms of efficiency when it comes to survivability.
Please point out where I'm wrong rather than repeating the same thing over & over again.
If you're going to say that "heals crit shields don't", then here's a quick calculation on how the scenario would look like if we added all available & feasible modifiers:
Crit Modifier 73%, Crit Chance 36.6%=an average 26.718% increase to heals.
Vigor tooltip 15 729/5->3145.8+26.718%=3986/second average healing
Alright, lets apply the negative modifiers:
3986-50%(Battle Spirit)=1993 health/second on average
1993-[44%(62 points Befoul Major Defile)+22%(62 points Befoul Minor Defile)]=678 health/second on average
...and compare it to the damage shields:
31 481(Hardened Ward)-50%(Battle Spirit)=15 740
29 046(Dampen Magic)-50%(Battle Spirit)=14 523
Are you sure you want to add these variables such as crits & buffs into the mix? They don't look good on medium armor.Last, if you have to ask what deadly cloak has to do with anything then this conversation needs to delve into some very basic aspects first.
Yes, some basic aspects, such as: who the [snip] has bar space for a situational niche skill such as Blade Cloak, and what does it have to do with anything? By same logic I could bring up Mist Form, Cleanse or Dark Cloak and claim they have something to do with the subject (when they don't).Again, watch some videos. Not the ones you make since you probably already know what you do. You might learn from others.
Aha, as a matter of fact I do watch a lot of streams & youtube videos.
Perhaps you have a recent one to link where the player is playing a high damage stamina build (not a S&B tank build) and has no problems with survivability?I am so glad I don't blame specific skills when I lose but realize there is something I could do different, do better. I certainly don't blame a skill that's been through various nerfs.
Oh, BTW, vigor also crits. Shields done. Thx and enjoy the game.
Who's blaming any specific skill? I'm saying medium armor lacks in survivability if they don't run S&B, that's just pretty much a fact these days.
It wasn't always like that, you were able to use Vigor better back in the days when dodge roll practically guaranteed it would heal you back up. That's just not the reality of ESO anymore, and that way of playing & surviving hasn't really been replaced with any alternative besides S&B tanking.Edited by DDuke on November 15, 2017 7:39PM1 -
Alpheu5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dalek-Rok - Argonian Sorcerer || Dalek-Shād - Argonian Nightblade || Dalek-Shul - Argonian Templar || Dalek-Xal - Argonian Dragonknight || Mounts-the-Snout - Argonian Warden || Dalek-Xul - Argonian Necromancer || Two-Spires - Argonian Arcanist || Dalek-Nesh - Argonian Sorcerer || Dalek-Kör - Argonian DragonknightJudas Helviaryn wrote: »Don't incorporate bugs into your builds, and you won't have [an] issue.0 -
waitwhat✭✭✭✭✭Tbh rather than have unbreakable channels like soul assault I would rather they nerf major and minor expedition by half like they do with major and minor vitality and shields in battle spirit.PS4 NA AD ScourgeVivec Loading Screen Simulator 2017
Khajiit stamblade main - Walking the Two-Moons Path and robbing cute Breton boys.
Breton magplar vet Trial Healer - Promoting wellness through self-reflection.
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Altmer magsorc PvE DPS - Scamp tramp and unrepentant lush.
"30s to eval"
"Read the ******* lorebook."0 -
Murador178✭✭✭✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Really tho, brass/ bone pirate/ blood spawn. Full medium, 29k resistance fully buffed. You can eat a soul assault and skoria with out blocking.
Preach!!!
Show them what a properly built Medium Armor build is capable of...
Sorry, but if you think properly built medium is to mimic heavy with huge damage loss, you really know nothing. And no that is not complain about his build, he built his medium to minimize weaknesses. You do that because you want to play medium. The 'want' being the important part.
Please stop with your grandiose know it all attitude; his build is good and successful...
That's what matters...
Not your narrow minded view of how medium should be played...
Unfortunately medium armor doesn't has an overpowered set like Vampire Lord Set
With a build it has synergy with, its much better than its given credit for...
You should try instead of forming opinions without having experimented with said gear set...
Can u explain me a reason to go vampire lord over warmaiden or automat (ofc as or stam/mag )?
U should try the one buffing undaunted dmg next - cant think of any other sets atm that are even worse than vampire lord....
Edit: A replay of vampire lord in action would be awesome ofcEdited by Murador178 on November 15, 2017 7:51PM0 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭Murador178 wrote: »TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Really tho, brass/ bone pirate/ blood spawn. Full medium, 29k resistance fully buffed. You can eat a soul assault and skoria with out blocking.
Preach!!!
Show them what a properly built Medium Armor build is capable of...
Sorry, but if you think properly built medium is to mimic heavy with huge damage loss, you really know nothing. And no that is not complain about his build, he built his medium to minimize weaknesses. You do that because you want to play medium. The 'want' being the important part.
Please stop with your grandiose know it all attitude; his build is good and successful...
That's what matters...
Not your narrow minded view of how medium should be played...
Unfortunately medium armor doesn't has an overpowered set like Vampire Lord Set
With a build it has synergy with, its much better than its given credit for...
You should try instead of forming opinions without having experimented with said gear set...
Can u explain me a reason to go vampire lord over warmaiden or automat
For starters the Spell Cost Reduction it gives to Vampiric abilities also applies to the Ultimate Cost of Devouring Swarm...
With Vampire Lord gear, Devouring Swarm only costs me 140 Ult...
That's pretty cheap for an ability as good as Devouring Swarm and I am able to refresh it pretty quickly as a result...Edited by TheDoomsdayMonster on November 15, 2017 8:05PMUnyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Murador178 wrote: »TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Really tho, brass/ bone pirate/ blood spawn. Full medium, 29k resistance fully buffed. You can eat a soul assault and skoria with out blocking.
Preach!!!
Show them what a properly built Medium Armor build is capable of...
Sorry, but if you think properly built medium is to mimic heavy with huge damage loss, you really know nothing. And no that is not complain about his build, he built his medium to minimize weaknesses. You do that because you want to play medium. The 'want' being the important part.
Please stop with your grandiose know it all attitude; his build is good and successful...
That's what matters...
Not your narrow minded view of how medium should be played...
Unfortunately medium armor doesn't has an overpowered set like Vampire Lord Set
With a build it has synergy with, its much better than its given credit for...
You should try instead of forming opinions without having experimented with said gear set...
Can u explain me a reason to go vampire lord over warmaiden or automat (ofc as or stam/mag )?
U should try the one buffing undaunted dmg next - cant think of any other sets atm that are even worse than vampire lord....
Edit: A replay of vampire lord in action would be awesome ofc
I'm gonna guess the reply will be 5% cost reduction on bats and mistform. Which I'm like... Meh.
But to each their own3 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
✭Soul assault Op and hard counter to medium builds,Their no hard counters to heavy or light builds.So why is their one for a medium build their shouldn't be hard counters in this game.1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Soul assault Op and hard counter to medium builds,Their no hard counters to heavy or light builds.So why is their one for a medium build their shouldn't be hard counters in this game.
Anything that circumvents mitigation is a hard counter to heavy imo (bleed, oblivion damage)
I can't help but feel soul assault is dangerous, but far less common than Leap.
I've been running medium a while now, and each time I get Souled I think, "yeap, that's what happens when I'm out in the open" I just can't get too worked up over it1 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Yes, when focused, the only real defense vs good players with good tactics is blocking, help from your group, and movement.
And right there you just explained everything thats wrong with SA. Cant move and blocking it does more harm than good. Its actually really funny how you guys "preach" about the counters of SA and then you literally contradict ur own arguments.
Im taking about 2 or more players on you at the same time. Not 1v1. So its safe to say you may need some external help of you're outnumbered or vs 2 players. Could be as little as a cc or as big as constant healing. Blocking it isn't that bad if you build for some recovery. Blocking the whole thing definitely will leave a dent. It's in no way unrecoverable.
It doesnt matter how many people u are fighting or whether u eventually win or lose. Thats not the point. The point is the available defenses you have and whether u can fight back. If every single defense you have is hard countered then there is obviously something wrong with the design cause there is nothing you can do. Thats not how u promote a skillful game. Exactly, that defense could be as little as a cc. You cant even do that little. SA even gives cc immunity to the caster.
Blocking isnt as bad if you build for recovery? I think you may wanna go and learn how recovery and blocking works before you make such comments.
I'm talking about sa in a 1v1 fight. Nothing should be immune to everything and they should have counters. In a 1vx you against solid opponents, you should have more things countered.
maybe i phrased the blocking part poorly . If you have good stamina recovery, you're not screwed by having the stamina loss from blocking the attack. I didn't think it was that hard to extrapolate that though.
Maybe sa shouldn't snare you so you can take cover, but its already almost trash. That would probably kill it.0 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
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They also hurts meduim just as bad if not more since they have less healing and health in general.Waffennacht wrote: »Soul assault Op and hard counter to medium builds,Their no hard counters to heavy or light builds.So why is their one for a medium build their shouldn't be hard counters in this game.
Anything that circumvents mitigation is a hard counter to heavy imo (bleed, oblivion damage)
I can't help but feel soul assault is dangerous, but far less common than Leap.
I've been running medium a while now, and each time I get Souled I think, "yeap, that's what happens when I'm out in the open" I just can't get too worked up over it
Leap hits hard but with how buggy leap is at time its not that bad.My issue with soul assault is that as a Meduim build their nothing I can do about it when I'm not on my NB. I lost a large chunk of my stam and still took a good chunk of damage,plus I hate snares so much they make me want to throw stuff when you constantly cant move because of multiple snares.
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Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
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They also hurts meduim just as bad if not more since they have less healing and health in general.Waffennacht wrote: »Soul assault Op and hard counter to medium builds,Their no hard counters to heavy or light builds.So why is their one for a medium build their shouldn't be hard counters in this game.
Anything that circumvents mitigation is a hard counter to heavy imo (bleed, oblivion damage)
I can't help but feel soul assault is dangerous, but far less common than Leap.
I've been running medium a while now, and each time I get Souled I think, "yeap, that's what happens when I'm out in the open" I just can't get too worked up over it
Leap hits hard but with how buggy leap is at time its not that bad.My issue with soul assault is that as a Meduim build their nothing I can do about it when I'm not on my NB. I lost a large chunk of my stam and still took a good chunk of damage,plus I hate snares so much they make me want to throw stuff when you constantly cant move because of multiple snares.
My play has improved tremendously once I started treating buffs and debuffs as important as gear selection, snare removal is completely necessary if you're not permatank.
A successful build I'm currently using is Fortified Brass medium + Bone Pirate + monster set of choice. I only have x5 brass on my DW man bar. You definitely notice the difference in survivability with Brass up.
This added defense while on the offense allows you to maintain a significant amount of pressure against other DMG specs, usually forcing them to break SA.
And I've discovered the added mitigation means I'm not forced to heal as often giving me better resource control than when I had a more offensive oriented set.
Because brass gives so much pure mitigation I go with an offensive monster set (over say TK or Spawn)
I sit at 3k wpn DMG unbuffed and very easily reach 4k (brutality and wpn glyph)
I have I think 30k resistance on my DW bar and 2k impen (some well-fitted and two just wrong traits working on getting crystals)
As I'm DW I also run Quick Cloak for expedition (very important buff) synergy with skoria, and a massive 25% against Sub Assault, Leap, EoTs, DboS, Jabs, Caltrops, and meteor (most common offenders)
So even though I'm medium, I'm extremely difficult to kill1 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »
They also hurts meduim just as bad if not more since they have less healing and health in general.Waffennacht wrote: »Soul assault Op and hard counter to medium builds,Their no hard counters to heavy or light builds.So why is their one for a medium build their shouldn't be hard counters in this game.
Anything that circumvents mitigation is a hard counter to heavy imo (bleed, oblivion damage)
I can't help but feel soul assault is dangerous, but far less common than Leap.
I've been running medium a while now, and each time I get Souled I think, "yeap, that's what happens when I'm out in the open" I just can't get too worked up over it
Leap hits hard but with how buggy leap is at time its not that bad.My issue with soul assault is that as a Meduim build their nothing I can do about it when I'm not on my NB. I lost a large chunk of my stam and still took a good chunk of damage,plus I hate snares so much they make me want to throw stuff when you constantly cant move because of multiple snares.
My play has improved tremendously once I started treating buffs and debuffs as important as gear selection, snare removal is completely necessary if you're not permatank.
A successful build I'm currently using is Fortified Brass medium + Bone Pirate + monster set of choice. I only have x5 brass on my DW man bar. You definitely notice the difference in survivability with Brass up.
This added defense while on the offense allows you to maintain a significant amount of pressure against other DMG specs, usually forcing them to break SA.
And I've discovered the added mitigation means I'm not forced to heal as often giving me better resource control than when I had a more offensive oriented set.
Because brass gives so much pure mitigation I go with an offensive monster set (over say TK or Spawn)
I sit at 3k wpn DMG unbuffed and very easily reach 4k (brutality and wpn glyph)
I have I think 30k resistance on my DW bar and 2k impen (some well-fitted and two just wrong traits working on getting crystals)
As I'm DW I also run Quick Cloak for expedition (very important buff) synergy with skoria, and a massive 25% against Sub Assault, Leap, EoTs, DboS, Jabs, Caltrops, and meteor (most common offenders)
So even though I'm medium, I'm extremely difficult to kill
Show these fools that there are viable alternatives for Medium that don't involve being so heavily glass canon...
Well done @Waffennacht
Edited by TheDoomsdayMonster on November 15, 2017 10:02PMUnyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭Anyway to get back to the discussion on Soul Assault, I still contend that it is fine as is...
Yes, the ability does excellent damage...
Yes, the ability snares its target...
Yes, the ability makes its user immune to CC...
But look at its negatives:
It can be ended by breaking LoS (as a result it is sometimes wasted in areas like the Towers on a Resource or in area's where there are lots of obstructions present to break LoS with)...
Cloak can break it after 2 secs...
The user is completely exposed for the duration of the channel...
The user is unable to do anything else but channel the ability for its duration...
The fact of the matter (as far as I can see) is that it only really excels when used at range in an open area where the target cant readily break LoS or in a situation where you are point blank on an already weakened opponent...
If you are properly built, you should have some method of withstanding the channel and retaliating on the Soul Assault user (and if you don't have a method of dealing with it, you either need to revise your build or suck it up and deal with the vulnerability to Soul Assault)...
I can tell you with absolute certainty that I have completely powered through Soul Assault (a number of times) without attempting to defend myself one bit and was able to kill the user (Devouring Swarm+Sweeps will overpower SA on a proper build every single time)...
That's just my observations and opinions though...
Take them as you will...Edited by TheDoomsdayMonster on November 15, 2017 10:35PMUnyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
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Yea I run shuffle on my stamblade,stamplar when in medium my stamplar also have purge which helps a lot.Waffennacht wrote: »
They also hurts meduim just as bad if not more since they have less healing and health in general.Waffennacht wrote: »Soul assault Op and hard counter to medium builds,Their no hard counters to heavy or light builds.So why is their one for a medium build their shouldn't be hard counters in this game.
Anything that circumvents mitigation is a hard counter to heavy imo (bleed, oblivion damage)
I can't help but feel soul assault is dangerous, but far less common than Leap.
I've been running medium a while now, and each time I get Souled I think, "yeap, that's what happens when I'm out in the open" I just can't get too worked up over it
Leap hits hard but with how buggy leap is at time its not that bad.My issue with soul assault is that as a Meduim build their nothing I can do about it when I'm not on my NB. I lost a large chunk of my stam and still took a good chunk of damage,plus I hate snares so much they make me want to throw stuff when you constantly cant move because of multiple snares.
My play has improved tremendously once I started treating buffs and debuffs as important as gear selection, snare removal is completely necessary if you're not permatank.
A successful build I'm currently using is Fortified Brass medium + Bone Pirate + monster set of choice. I only have x5 brass on my DW man bar. You definitely notice the difference in survivability with Brass up.
This added defense while on the offense allows you to maintain a significant amount of pressure against other DMG specs, usually forcing them to break SA.
And I've discovered the added mitigation means I'm not forced to heal as often giving me better resource control than when I had a more offensive oriented set.
Because brass gives so much pure mitigation I go with an offensive monster set (over say TK or Spawn)
I sit at 3k wpn DMG unbuffed and very easily reach 4k (brutality and wpn glyph)
I have I think 30k resistance on my DW bar and 2k impen (some well-fitted and two just wrong traits working on getting crystals)
As I'm DW I also run Quick Cloak for expedition (very important buff) synergy with skoria, and a massive 25% against Sub Assault, Leap, EoTs, DboS, Jabs, Caltrops, and meteor (most common offenders)
So even though I'm medium, I'm extremely difficult to kill
Your build is pretty much a heavy build wearing medium armor.Which takes the fun out of medium armor and would just be better off running heavy.Personally I say Quick cloak is helping your survivablity more than brass.I love quick cloak its so good especially against magic builds alot of their damage is AOE.
I think this only really works on stamplar which isn't a bad thing it plays to stamplar strengths.Its not a universal fix to how bad medium is but it helps on certain classes.This setup on a 2h and bow stamdk would get melted by a light armor magblade,sorc or warden.
0 -
BroanBeast1215✭✭✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Anyway to get back to the discussion on Soul Assault, I still contend that it is fine as is...
Yes, the ability does excellent damage...
Yes, the ability snares its target...
Yes, the ability makes its user immune to CC...
But look at its negatives:
It can be ended by breaking LoS (as a result it is sometimes wasted in areas like the Towers on a Resource or in area's where there are lots of obstructions present to break LoS with)...
Cloak can break it after 2 secs...
The user is completely exposed for the duration of the channel...
The user is unable to do anything else but channel the ability for its duration...
The fact of the matter (as far as I can see) is that it only really excels when used at range in an open area where the target cant readily break LoS or in a situation where you are point blank on an already weakened opponent...
If you are properly built, you should have some method of withstanding the channel and retaliating on the Soul Assault user...
I can tell you with absolute certainty that I have completely powered through Soul Assault (a number of times) without attempting to defend myself one bit and was able to kill the user (Devouring Swarm+Sweeps will overpower SA on a proper build every single time)...
That's just my opinion though...
View it as you will...
well, you're a scrublord so your opinion is moot
4 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I'm pretty sure you had no clue what build people could use you waited for someone else to post a idea.TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »
They also hurts meduim just as bad if not more since they have less healing and health in general.Waffennacht wrote: »Soul assault Op and hard counter to medium builds,Their no hard counters to heavy or light builds.So why is their one for a medium build their shouldn't be hard counters in this game.
Anything that circumvents mitigation is a hard counter to heavy imo (bleed, oblivion damage)
I can't help but feel soul assault is dangerous, but far less common than Leap.
I've been running medium a while now, and each time I get Souled I think, "yeap, that's what happens when I'm out in the open" I just can't get too worked up over it
Leap hits hard but with how buggy leap is at time its not that bad.My issue with soul assault is that as a Meduim build their nothing I can do about it when I'm not on my NB. I lost a large chunk of my stam and still took a good chunk of damage,plus I hate snares so much they make me want to throw stuff when you constantly cant move because of multiple snares.
My play has improved tremendously once I started treating buffs and debuffs as important as gear selection, snare removal is completely necessary if you're not permatank.
A successful build I'm currently using is Fortified Brass medium + Bone Pirate + monster set of choice. I only have x5 brass on my DW man bar. You definitely notice the difference in survivability with Brass up.
This added defense while on the offense allows you to maintain a significant amount of pressure against other DMG specs, usually forcing them to break SA.
And I've discovered the added mitigation means I'm not forced to heal as often giving me better resource control than when I had a more offensive oriented set.
Because brass gives so much pure mitigation I go with an offensive monster set (over say TK or Spawn)
I sit at 3k wpn DMG unbuffed and very easily reach 4k (brutality and wpn glyph)
I have I think 30k resistance on my DW bar and 2k impen (some well-fitted and two just wrong traits working on getting crystals)
As I'm DW I also run Quick Cloak for expedition (very important buff) synergy with skoria, and a massive 25% against Sub Assault, Leap, EoTs, DboS, Jabs, Caltrops, and meteor (most common offenders)
So even though I'm medium, I'm extremely difficult to kill
Show these fools that there are viable alternatives for Medium that don't involve being so heavily glass canon...
Well done @Waffennacht
Even @Waffennacht agreed soul assault is a issue and that it still hurts his setup alot.
1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭.
Yea I run shuffle on my stamblade,stamplar when in medium my stamplar also have purge which helps a lot.Waffennacht wrote: »
They also hurts meduim just as bad if not more since they have less healing and health in general.Waffennacht wrote: »Soul assault Op and hard counter to medium builds,Their no hard counters to heavy or light builds.So why is their one for a medium build their shouldn't be hard counters in this game.
Anything that circumvents mitigation is a hard counter to heavy imo (bleed, oblivion damage)
I can't help but feel soul assault is dangerous, but far less common than Leap.
I've been running medium a while now, and each time I get Souled I think, "yeap, that's what happens when I'm out in the open" I just can't get too worked up over it
Leap hits hard but with how buggy leap is at time its not that bad.My issue with soul assault is that as a Meduim build their nothing I can do about it when I'm not on my NB. I lost a large chunk of my stam and still took a good chunk of damage,plus I hate snares so much they make me want to throw stuff when you constantly cant move because of multiple snares.
My play has improved tremendously once I started treating buffs and debuffs as important as gear selection, snare removal is completely necessary if you're not permatank.
A successful build I'm currently using is Fortified Brass medium + Bone Pirate + monster set of choice. I only have x5 brass on my DW man bar. You definitely notice the difference in survivability with Brass up.
This added defense while on the offense allows you to maintain a significant amount of pressure against other DMG specs, usually forcing them to break SA.
And I've discovered the added mitigation means I'm not forced to heal as often giving me better resource control than when I had a more offensive oriented set.
Because brass gives so much pure mitigation I go with an offensive monster set (over say TK or Spawn)
I sit at 3k wpn DMG unbuffed and very easily reach 4k (brutality and wpn glyph)
I have I think 30k resistance on my DW bar and 2k impen (some well-fitted and two just wrong traits working on getting crystals)
As I'm DW I also run Quick Cloak for expedition (very important buff) synergy with skoria, and a massive 25% against Sub Assault, Leap, EoTs, DboS, Jabs, Caltrops, and meteor (most common offenders)
So even though I'm medium, I'm extremely difficult to kill
Your build is pretty much a heavy build wearing medium armor.Which takes the fun out of medium armor and would just be better off running heavy.Personally I say Quick cloak is helping your survivablity more than brass.I love quick cloak its so good especially against magic builds alot of their damage is AOE.
I think this only really works on stamplar which isn't a bad thing it plays to stamplar strengths.Its not a universal fix to how bad medium is but it helps on certain classes.This setup on a 2h and bow stamdk would get melted by a light armor magblade,sorc or warden.
@KingJ you mean the prenerfed heavy armor, back when Constitution was better and the wpn DMG. You'll be very hard pressed to get the resource management and wpn DMG outta heavy now. You end up sacrificing more to get to the same spot via heavy. Keep in mind, because you're medium you also get dodge roll where heavy can't
Quick + Brass is pretty solid, just running quick won't do it, I've tried.0 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭
I'm pretty sure you had no clue what build people could use you waited for someone else to post a idea.TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »
They also hurts meduim just as bad if not more since they have less healing and health in general.Waffennacht wrote: »Soul assault Op and hard counter to medium builds,Their no hard counters to heavy or light builds.So why is their one for a medium build their shouldn't be hard counters in this game.
Anything that circumvents mitigation is a hard counter to heavy imo (bleed, oblivion damage)
I can't help but feel soul assault is dangerous, but far less common than Leap.
I've been running medium a while now, and each time I get Souled I think, "yeap, that's what happens when I'm out in the open" I just can't get too worked up over it
Leap hits hard but with how buggy leap is at time its not that bad.My issue with soul assault is that as a Meduim build their nothing I can do about it when I'm not on my NB. I lost a large chunk of my stam and still took a good chunk of damage,plus I hate snares so much they make me want to throw stuff when you constantly cant move because of multiple snares.
My play has improved tremendously once I started treating buffs and debuffs as important as gear selection, snare removal is completely necessary if you're not permatank.
A successful build I'm currently using is Fortified Brass medium + Bone Pirate + monster set of choice. I only have x5 brass on my DW man bar. You definitely notice the difference in survivability with Brass up.
This added defense while on the offense allows you to maintain a significant amount of pressure against other DMG specs, usually forcing them to break SA.
And I've discovered the added mitigation means I'm not forced to heal as often giving me better resource control than when I had a more offensive oriented set.
Because brass gives so much pure mitigation I go with an offensive monster set (over say TK or Spawn)
I sit at 3k wpn DMG unbuffed and very easily reach 4k (brutality and wpn glyph)
I have I think 30k resistance on my DW bar and 2k impen (some well-fitted and two just wrong traits working on getting crystals)
As I'm DW I also run Quick Cloak for expedition (very important buff) synergy with skoria, and a massive 25% against Sub Assault, Leap, EoTs, DboS, Jabs, Caltrops, and meteor (most common offenders)
So even though I'm medium, I'm extremely difficult to kill
Show these fools that there are viable alternatives for Medium that don't involve being so heavily glass canon...
Well done @Waffennacht
Even @Waffennacht agreed soul assault is a issue and that it still hurts his setup alot.
But he can take it...
And the build is successful...
So viable alternatives to the "Medium can only be played as a glass canon" belief are nil and void...
The end...
Unyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭BroanBeast1215 wrote: »TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Anyway to get back to the discussion on Soul Assault, I still contend that it is fine as is...
Yes, the ability does excellent damage...
Yes, the ability snares its target...
Yes, the ability makes its user immune to CC...
But look at its negatives:
It can be ended by breaking LoS (as a result it is sometimes wasted in areas like the Towers on a Resource or in area's where there are lots of obstructions present to break LoS with)...
Cloak can break it after 2 secs...
The user is completely exposed for the duration of the channel...
The user is unable to do anything else but channel the ability for its duration...
The fact of the matter (as far as I can see) is that it only really excels when used at range in an open area where the target cant readily break LoS or in a situation where you are point blank on an already weakened opponent...
If you are properly built, you should have some method of withstanding the channel and retaliating on the Soul Assault user...
I can tell you with absolute certainty that I have completely powered through Soul Assault (a number of times) without attempting to defend myself one bit and was able to kill the user (Devouring Swarm+Sweeps will overpower SA on a proper build every single time)...
That's just my opinion though...
View it as you will...
well, you're a scrublord so your opinion is moot
You just cant stand the truth...
Adapt to dealing with SA or die...
Cheers!
Btw, feel free to counter my above points or shut your mouth...
Edited by TheDoomsdayMonster on November 15, 2017 10:48PMUnyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Let me be 100% clear. I agree Soul Assault is extremely powerful against medium, it is a very direct hard counter. My opinion is, that this is ok. I feel hard counters very directly improve gameplay as no one build has an answer to everything.
Balance comes in finding the sweet spot where just straight up using SA becomes GG vs another Equilibrium nerf.1 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
✭
You know why that happens because you play a magplar when you press X you can go from 2% health back to full.No medium armor build can do that.I can make a tanky medium armor build but than I'm better off playing a heavy armor build.I get better damage and healing and just as much mitigation.Play a medium armor build and you will see the issue everyone have.When you only play 1 class and 1 setup of many variation of that class you view is limited.I play everything but magwarden and magdk,don't have a slot or want to level one.When you play a light armor magplar and act like its weak its laughable light magplar is really good.TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Anyway to get back to the discussion on Soul Assault, I still contend that it is fine as is...
Yes, the ability does excellent damage...
Yes, the ability snares its target...
Yes, the ability makes its user immune to CC...
But look at its negatives:
It can be ended by breaking LoS (as a result it is sometimes wasted in areas like the Towers on a Resource or in area's where there are lots of obstructions present to break LoS with)...
Cloak can break it after 2 secs...
The user is completely exposed for the duration of the channel...
The user is unable to do anything else but channel the ability for its duration...
The fact of the matter (as far as I can see) is that it only really excels when used at range in an open area where the target cant readily break LoS or in a situation where you are point blank on an already weakened opponent...
If you are properly built, you should have some method of withstanding the channel and retaliating on the Soul Assault user (and if you don't have a method of dealing with it, you either need to revise your build or suck it up and deal with the vulnerability to Soul Assault)...
I can tell you with absolute certainty that I have completely powered through Soul Assault (a number of times) without attempting to defend myself one bit and was able to kill the user ] (Devouring Swarm+Sweeps will overpower SA on a proper build every single time)...
That's just my observations and opinions though...
Take them as you will...
I understand you like your cheese its the only way for you to beat medium build,just admit that don't sit here and make crap up about it being a balanced ability.People used to defend proc sets doesn't mean they weren't a broken mess.
No matter what setup you are running you still lose upwards of 21k stam on anything but a stamblade if you vigor and hold block.When you hold block you lose regen ticks and can't regen stamina.When you hold block on a magplar you lose stam not magica so after being hit with soul assault you can still heal back to full.A stambuild has to hope their HOT can save them.3 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭"Medium armor can sacrifice their damage and wear a tank set to get half the survivability of a light armor glass cannon build with 15k dmg shields"
That logic is flawless, what would we do without you. ZOS should hire you to balance their game @TheDoomsdayMonster .Edited by DDuke on November 15, 2017 10:56PM1 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Again your wrong surviving isn't the only issue its losing the 21k+ of stam and regen ticks which is the issue.Combine Soul assault with POLT and vamp bane and more than likely @Waffennacht will die but most people aren't smart enough to combo their soul assault but just soul assault is still a issue.When it takes vast majority of your stam away.For his build almost 50%TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »
I'm pretty sure you had no clue what build people could use you waited for someone else to post a idea.TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »
They also hurts meduim just as bad if not more since they have less healing and health in general.Waffennacht wrote: »Soul assault Op and hard counter to medium builds,Their no hard counters to heavy or light builds.So why is their one for a medium build their shouldn't be hard counters in this game.
Anything that circumvents mitigation is a hard counter to heavy imo (bleed, oblivion damage)
I can't help but feel soul assault is dangerous, but far less common than Leap.
I've been running medium a while now, and each time I get Souled I think, "yeap, that's what happens when I'm out in the open" I just can't get too worked up over it
Leap hits hard but with how buggy leap is at time its not that bad.My issue with soul assault is that as a Meduim build their nothing I can do about it when I'm not on my NB. I lost a large chunk of my stam and still took a good chunk of damage,plus I hate snares so much they make me want to throw stuff when you constantly cant move because of multiple snares.
My play has improved tremendously once I started treating buffs and debuffs as important as gear selection, snare removal is completely necessary if you're not permatank.
A successful build I'm currently using is Fortified Brass medium + Bone Pirate + monster set of choice. I only have x5 brass on my DW man bar. You definitely notice the difference in survivability with Brass up.
This added defense while on the offense allows you to maintain a significant amount of pressure against other DMG specs, usually forcing them to break SA.
And I've discovered the added mitigation means I'm not forced to heal as often giving me better resource control than when I had a more offensive oriented set.
Because brass gives so much pure mitigation I go with an offensive monster set (over say TK or Spawn)
I sit at 3k wpn DMG unbuffed and very easily reach 4k (brutality and wpn glyph)
I have I think 30k resistance on my DW bar and 2k impen (some well-fitted and two just wrong traits working on getting crystals)
As I'm DW I also run Quick Cloak for expedition (very important buff) synergy with skoria, and a massive 25% against Sub Assault, Leap, EoTs, DboS, Jabs, Caltrops, and meteor (most common offenders)
So even though I'm medium, I'm extremely difficult to kill
Show these fools that there are viable alternatives for Medium that don't involve being so heavily glass canon...
Well done @Waffennacht
Even @Waffennacht agreed soul assault is a issue and that it still hurts his setup alot.
But he can take it...
And the build is successful...
So viable alternatives to the "Medium can only be played as a glass canon" belief are nil and void...
The end...0 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭
You know why that happens because you play a magplar when you press X you can go from 2% health back to full.No medium armor build can do that.I can make a tanky medium armor build but than I'm better off playing a heavy armor build.I get better damage and healing and just as much mitigation.Play a medium armor build and you will see the issue everyone have.When you only play 1 class and 1 setup of many variation of that class you view is limited.I play everything but magwarden and magdk,don't have a slot or want to level one.When you play a light armor magplar and act like its weak its laughable light magplar is really good.TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Anyway to get back to the discussion on Soul Assault, I still contend that it is fine as is...
Yes, the ability does excellent damage...
Yes, the ability snares its target...
Yes, the ability makes its user immune to CC...
But look at its negatives:
It can be ended by breaking LoS (as a result it is sometimes wasted in areas like the Towers on a Resource or in area's where there are lots of obstructions present to break LoS with)...
Cloak can break it after 2 secs...
The user is completely exposed for the duration of the channel...
The user is unable to do anything else but channel the ability for its duration...
The fact of the matter (as far as I can see) is that it only really excels when used at range in an open area where the target cant readily break LoS or in a situation where you are point blank on an already weakened opponent...
If you are properly built, you should have some method of withstanding the channel and retaliating on the Soul Assault user (and if you don't have a method of dealing with it, you either need to revise your build or suck it up and deal with the vulnerability to Soul Assault)...
I can tell you with absolute certainty that I have completely powered through Soul Assault (a number of times) without attempting to defend myself one bit and was able to kill the user ] (Devouring Swarm+Sweeps will overpower SA on a proper build every single time)...
That's just my observations and opinions though...
Take them as you will...
I understand you like your cheese its the only way for you to beat medium build,just admit that don't sit here and make crap up about it being a balanced ability.People used to defend proc sets doesn't mean they weren't a broken mess.
No matter what setup you are running you still lose upwards of 21k stam on anything but a stamblade if you vigor and hold block.When you hold block you lose regen ticks and can't regen stamina.When you hold block on a magplar you lose stam not magica so after being hit with soul assault you can still heal back to full.A stambuild has to hope their HOT can save them.
Tell me, how am I going from 2% health to 100% health without using BoL (or Honor the Dead) as in my example?
Evidence that you don't quite know what you are talking about; I can overpower SA by using nothing but Offensive Abilities btw...
Concession accepted...
Edited by TheDoomsdayMonster on November 15, 2017 11:04PMUnyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭"Medium armor can sacrifice their damage and wear a tank set to get half the survivability of a light armor glass cannon build with 15k dmg shields"
That logic is flawless, what would we do without you. ZOS should hire you to balance their game @TheDoomsdayMonster .
@DDuke the equivalent would be... 50k mag and 3k spell damage with 2k Regen. Keep in mind magicka spells are also approximately 40% (estimated) more expensive than stamina abilities.
I don't think many mag builds get those stats. The shields of course make up for this deficit.
The available sets for Stam/medium allow for far more stat play.
I'm going to finish my heavy build tonight according to a bud, something like 5k wpn DMG. We'll compare the two and get a good feel for if the medium is worth it0 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Nahh I still liked the nerfed heavy.Wraith doesn't hurt that much especially on stamplar I still have a high uptime on ravager with the 200 weapon damage lost isn't that big.Most builds can't really make use of agility. The Constitution nerf sucks but I only use it for the bit of extra magic sustain more purge,The heavy attack and extra healing is what I like most you can land more DW heavy than say someone using a Destro staff.Wait I didn't know I couldn't dodge roll in heavy armor anymoreWaffennacht wrote: ».
Yea I run shuffle on my stamblade,stamplar when in medium my stamplar also have purge which helps a lot.Waffennacht wrote: »
They also hurts meduim just as bad if not more since they have less healing and health in general.Waffennacht wrote: »Soul assault Op and hard counter to medium builds,Their no hard counters to heavy or light builds.So why is their one for a medium build their shouldn't be hard counters in this game.
Anything that circumvents mitigation is a hard counter to heavy imo (bleed, oblivion damage)
I can't help but feel soul assault is dangerous, but far less common than Leap.
I've been running medium a while now, and each time I get Souled I think, "yeap, that's what happens when I'm out in the open" I just can't get too worked up over it
Leap hits hard but with how buggy leap is at time its not that bad.My issue with soul assault is that as a Meduim build their nothing I can do about it when I'm not on my NB. I lost a large chunk of my stam and still took a good chunk of damage,plus I hate snares so much they make me want to throw stuff when you constantly cant move because of multiple snares.
My play has improved tremendously once I started treating buffs and debuffs as important as gear selection, snare removal is completely necessary if you're not permatank.
A successful build I'm currently using is Fortified Brass medium + Bone Pirate + monster set of choice. I only have x5 brass on my DW man bar. You definitely notice the difference in survivability with Brass up.
This added defense while on the offense allows you to maintain a significant amount of pressure against other DMG specs, usually forcing them to break SA.
And I've discovered the added mitigation means I'm not forced to heal as often giving me better resource control than when I had a more offensive oriented set.
Because brass gives so much pure mitigation I go with an offensive monster set (over say TK or Spawn)
I sit at 3k wpn DMG unbuffed and very easily reach 4k (brutality and wpn glyph)
I have I think 30k resistance on my DW bar and 2k impen (some well-fitted and two just wrong traits working on getting crystals)
As I'm DW I also run Quick Cloak for expedition (very important buff) synergy with skoria, and a massive 25% against Sub Assault, Leap, EoTs, DboS, Jabs, Caltrops, and meteor (most common offenders)
So even though I'm medium, I'm extremely difficult to kill
Your build is pretty much a heavy build wearing medium armor.Which takes the fun out of medium armor and would just be better off running heavy.Personally I say Quick cloak is helping your survivablity more than brass.I love quick cloak its so good especially against magic builds alot of their damage is AOE.
I think this only really works on stamplar which isn't a bad thing it plays to stamplar strengths.Its not a universal fix to how bad medium is but it helps on certain classes.This setup on a 2h and bow stamdk would get melted by a light armor magblade,sorc or warden.
@KingJ you mean the prenerfed heavy armor, back when Constitution was better and the wpn DMG. You'll be very hard pressed to get the resource management and wpn DMG outta heavy now. You end up sacrificing more to get to the same spot via heavy. Keep in mind, because you're medium you also get dodge roll where heavy can't
Quick + Brass is pretty solid, just running quick won't do it, I've tried.
.
Heavy plus Quick cloak is just dumb strong.Edited by KingJ on November 15, 2017 11:20PM0 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
✭
You telling me your eating Soul assault full damage and only healing with devouring and Sweeps and surviving fine.Even then I wasn't using your example I was saying magplar in general reading is fundamental.TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »
You know why that happens because you play a magplar when you press X you can go from 2% health back to full.No medium armor build can do that.I can make a tanky medium armor build but than I'm better off playing a heavy armor build.I get better damage and healing and just as much mitigation.Play a medium armor build and you will see the issue everyone have.When you only play 1 class and 1 setup of many variation of that class you view is limited.I play everything but magwarden and magdk,don't have a slot or want to level one.When you play a light armor magplar and act like its weak its laughable light magplar is really good.TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Anyway to get back to the discussion on Soul Assault, I still contend that it is fine as is...
Yes, the ability does excellent damage...
Yes, the ability snares its target...
Yes, the ability makes its user immune to CC...
But look at its negatives:
It can be ended by breaking LoS (as a result it is sometimes wasted in areas like the Towers on a Resource or in area's where there are lots of obstructions present to break LoS with)...
Cloak can break it after 2 secs...
The user is completely exposed for the duration of the channel...
The user is unable to do anything else but channel the ability for its duration...
The fact of the matter (as far as I can see) is that it only really excels when used at range in an open area where the target cant readily break LoS or in a situation where you are point blank on an already weakened opponent...
If you are properly built, you should have some method of withstanding the channel and retaliating on the Soul Assault user (and if you don't have a method of dealing with it, you either need to revise your build or suck it up and deal with the vulnerability to Soul Assault)...
I can tell you with absolute certainty that I have completely powered through Soul Assault (a number of times) without attempting to defend myself one bit and was able to kill the user ] (Devouring Swarm+Sweeps will overpower SA on a proper build every single time)...
That's just my observations and opinions though...
Take them as you will...
I understand you like your cheese its the only way for you to beat medium build,just admit that don't sit here and make crap up about it being a balanced ability.People used to defend proc sets doesn't mean they weren't a broken mess.
No matter what setup you are running you still lose upwards of 21k stam on anything but a stamblade if you vigor and hold block.When you hold block you lose regen ticks and can't regen stamina.When you hold block on a magplar you lose stam not magica so after being hit with soul assault you can still heal back to full.A stambuild has to hope their HOT can save them.
Tell me, how am I going from 2% health to 100% health without using BoL (or Honor the Dead) as in my example?
Evidence that you don't quite know what you are talking about; I can overpower SA by using nothing but Offensive Abilities btw...
Concession accepted...
I'm not sure you know this So I'm point it out Sweeps heal you when you deal damage to someone same with devouring.
Edited by KingJ on November 15, 2017 11:21PM0 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭
You telling me your eating Soul assault full damage and only healing with devouring and Sweeps and surviving fine.Even then I wasn't using your example I was saying magplar in general reading is fundamental.TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »
You know why that happens because you play a magplar when you press X you can go from 2% health back to full.No medium armor build can do that.I can make a tanky medium armor build but than I'm better off playing a heavy armor build.I get better damage and healing and just as much mitigation.Play a medium armor build and you will see the issue everyone have.When you only play 1 class and 1 setup of many variation of that class you view is limited.I play everything but magwarden and magdk,don't have a slot or want to level one.When you play a light armor magplar and act like its weak its laughable light magplar is really good.TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Anyway to get back to the discussion on Soul Assault, I still contend that it is fine as is...
Yes, the ability does excellent damage...
Yes, the ability snares its target...
Yes, the ability makes its user immune to CC...
But look at its negatives:
It can be ended by breaking LoS (as a result it is sometimes wasted in areas like the Towers on a Resource or in area's where there are lots of obstructions present to break LoS with)...
Cloak can break it after 2 secs...
The user is completely exposed for the duration of the channel...
The user is unable to do anything else but channel the ability for its duration...
The fact of the matter (as far as I can see) is that it only really excels when used at range in an open area where the target cant readily break LoS or in a situation where you are point blank on an already weakened opponent...
If you are properly built, you should have some method of withstanding the channel and retaliating on the Soul Assault user (and if you don't have a method of dealing with it, you either need to revise your build or suck it up and deal with the vulnerability to Soul Assault)...
I can tell you with absolute certainty that I have completely powered through Soul Assault (a number of times) without attempting to defend myself one bit and was able to kill the user ] (Devouring Swarm+Sweeps will overpower SA on a proper build every single time)...
That's just my observations and opinions though...
Take them as you will...
I understand you like your cheese its the only way for you to beat medium build,just admit that don't sit here and make crap up about it being a balanced ability.People used to defend proc sets doesn't mean they weren't a broken mess.
No matter what setup you are running you still lose upwards of 21k stam on anything but a stamblade if you vigor and hold block.When you hold block you lose regen ticks and can't regen stamina.When you hold block on a magplar you lose stam not magica so after being hit with soul assault you can still heal back to full.A stambuild has to hope their HOT can save them.
Tell me, how am I going from 2% health to 100% health without using BoL (or Honor the Dead) as in my example?
Evidence that you don't quite know what you are talking about; I can overpower SA by using nothing but Offensive Abilities btw...
Concession accepted...
I'm not sure you know this So I'm point it out Sweeps heal you when you deal damage to someone same with devouring.
So you admit that I have a proper build and that against a proper build Soul Assault isn't all that great...
Thanks.
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