Why is Caltrops Locked Behind a PVP Wall?

tizodd · October 2017

Caltrops is one of the better stamina aoe abilities but in order to get it I have to grind pvp. I have absolutely no interest in pvp. I just finished running around in Cyrodil with a group trying to do stuff and it was honestly the worst experience I've had to-date in ESO. If I wanted to pvp I'd be playing Call of Duty or one of those MOBAs. Up to now I've been really enjoying ESO. I'm cp320 and have a few level 50 characters and master crafters. Now I'm working on my dps DK and it seems I'm going to be forced to pvp if I want this powerful pve ability.

I'm sure someone will point out the fact that one of the morphs is for use against mounted characters, but it's still largely a pve ability. There really needs to be some other way to obtain Caltrops (or AP) for those of us who have no desire to pvp.

It's really bad design whenever a developer locks pve abilities behind pvp. I'm guessing it's been this way for a while so I doubt they'll change it anytime soon, but it's really dumb design.

xDODGE · October 2017

I agree with this. Vigor as well. Seems dumb to have to pvp to unlock these much needed pve skills.

SanTii.92 · October 2017

As an incetive for you to try pvp.

Taylor_MB · October 2017

Why is everything required for PvP locked behind a PvE wall?

Just branch out and do some new things, PvP'ers have a lot more PvE grind than the other way around.

usmcjdking · October 2017

todd.curtis_ESO wrote: »

It's really bad design whenever a developer locks pve abilities behind pvp. I'm guessing it's been this way for a while so I doubt they'll change it anytime soon, but it's really dumb design.

It's not a PVE ability. It's a PVP ability.

Sixty5 · October 2017

Because it is intended as a PVP ability to deny areas to an enemy.

It pulls people out of stealth and denies mounting, as well as giving an advantage with the snare.

A primarily PVP ability that is useful in PVE. That is why you need to do PVP for it.

Betsararie · October 2017

It's fine as is

firedrgn · October 2017

Ya I don't like PvP. Wanted vigor real bad tho. Juat,grab a healing staff during,the double ap event took a few hours .. Actually did two. characters. Ok I did have fun one time.,,I,was the only person defending a keep and,I sniped like 6 players in a row they all,died in,one shot. Probaby newbs like me but ya thats about it,.

Chantclaire · October 2017

If I have to go into PvE to get bone pirate, then you have to go into PvP to get vigor and caltrops.

For real though, it used to be used for area control and for demounting people. It just so happens that it is a decent aoe in pve.

TequilaFire · October 2017

They are PvP skills not PvE skills.
I bet your tank loves you throwing caltrops stealing agro.

ereboz · October 2017

usmcjdking wrote: »

todd.curtis_ESO wrote: »

It's really bad design whenever a developer locks pve abilities behind pvp. I'm guessing it's been this way for a while so I doubt they'll change it anytime soon, but it's really dumb design.

It's not a PVE ability. It's a PVP ability.

Wrong, if your stupid enough to stand in caltrops you deserve to die. NPCs don't move

Taleof2Cities · October 2017

Why are the undaunted passives locked behind a PvE wall??

driosketch · October 2017

ereboz wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

todd.curtis_ESO wrote: »

It's really bad design whenever a developer locks pve abilities behind pvp. I'm guessing it's been this way for a while so I doubt they'll change it anytime soon, but it's really dumb design.

It's not a PVE ability. It's a PVP ability.

Wrong, if your stupid enough to stand in caltrops you deserve to die. NPCs don't move

There are choke points in PvP.

Regardless, you can unlock those skills not only without doing any actual PvP, but doing a bit of PvE for the AP boost. With the current rates, these are easier to unlock than many PvE things PvPers like to use.

Sixty5 · October 2017

ereboz wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

todd.curtis_ESO wrote: »

It's really bad design whenever a developer locks pve abilities behind pvp. I'm guessing it's been this way for a while so I doubt they'll change it anytime soon, but it's really dumb design.

It's not a PVE ability. It's a PVP ability.

Wrong, if your stupid enough to stand in caltrops you deserve to die. NPCs don't move

Wow, it's almost like Caltrops act as a tool to control an area, and to get people away from flags or doorways.

I can't see why that would ever be useful in PVP

templesus · October 2017

Lol how many of these threads will there be? They legitimately never end...

That being said, for as long as I have to do PvE to get undaunted passives, which are much more necessary for End Game on a character then Vigor and Caltrops, I’ll be damned if you don’t have to PvP for aforementioned abilities.

And don’t get me started on RNGrinding Sets and Weapons.

Minyassa · October 2017

Because they were supposed to be PvP skills until the ever-loving meta decided that these PvP skills are a must-have for certain PvE functions to the point where you'll get auto-booted for not having them. The problem is not with the PvP-gated skills so much as it is with the blankety-blank meta that people treat like a religion and use as an excuse to write people off without giving them any chance to show how they play in PvE without PvP skills. I think if more people stood up to that, and stood up for skill diversity, it'd make it not so horrible that those skills are gated behind PvP.

Tasear · October 2017

Battlegrounds...so much easier or just become a heal bot.

method__01 · October 2017

hey guys,go Cyro,repair some walls,doors go zerg surfing,siege a bit.....you'll get them both in 1 or 2 nights

makerofthings · October 2017

Had no interest in PVP until the last bonus event. Played with my guild, had some fun and unlocked the skills. Before that I figured, if I do not try it, then my loss.

Narvuntien · October 2017

Its a really low wall.. you can just step over it.

Well there is all this gear that is great in PVP that is behind a PVE wall and that wall is a lot higher.

dday3six · October 2017

I ground out for caltrops when ESO launched on console. It took a couple of weeks. Proxy Det was even worse. You can get caltrops in a day now. You’ll be fine. There are things both types of players (pvp and pve) want things which don’t drop or aren’t accessible from their preferred activity. It gives players something to do at the end of the day.

You can get by without caltrops. Vigor might be a different story, but it’s even easier to get. You want to get the ritz you got to work for it ultimately.

Dysprosium · October 2017

You can just defend with sieges, fix walls etc..... Then not really having to do so much pvp.

D0PAMINE · October 2017

I like both PVE and PVP.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · October 2017

TequilaFire wrote: »

They are PvP skills not PvE skills.
I bet your tank loves you throwing caltrops stealing agro.

Funny enough there is a skill that make the min attack the tank, regardless of who did damage to it, called a "taunt".

To the op, you don't need those skill for pve, there is more then enough AOE skill without caltrops to complete all content in the game and vigor is so overrated that it is not even funny, every Stam version of the classes has ways to heal, in class and there are reliable heals in all the Stam weapon skill lines too, it is really a learn to play thing if you don't know about them

shadowofnarsil · October 2017

So. I have no desire to run in PvP. Never have, never will. More power to you, those that do. But I do have a burning desire to improve and optimize performance back in PvE....and groups. Solo dungeons, world bosses, and the option to carry whatever group if the healer doesn’t show up, in whatever (non trial) dungeon. PUGs gone wrong in normal, PUGs gone right in Vet, whatever. No desire to peg the leaderboard in vM...... but an interest in finishing. And trials can be fun. Maybe that means something.

The instant my skill points clicked over level 6 in Assault, I left Cyrodil. My [snip] swung faster than the door. But(t)....here's the thing. It got kinda fun. PvP before I left, that is. Not taking keeps, or Cyrodil solo missions. Hell nope. The fun, at least when I was running it was......Imperial City. Not for the faint of heart for my buds in PvE-land, but if you can put up even 10-15k DPS, you CAN enjoy it.

But how, you ask.

Simple. Take flags in Cyrodil districts. On your own, if you have the DPS, and they’re not protected by a live crew. If not, with an alliance PUG.... if you can find them. You can take the whole city in those, and yep, it’s good stuff. I am now not talking about collateral points while you launch endless hail then stare at a wall while the remaining group themselves makes it rain. Focus on combat, taking down whatever, or even just finishing someone else’s work as part of a melee mob. Or take them all on, when you git guud (or get good, for those of us that remember),

Be careful what you wish for though- I started the PvP christening because I thought Vigor was essential to hang on and live. I ended it knowing that Caltrops was needed for nasties to die.

[Edited to remove profanity]

dsalter · October 2017

i dont like grinding to get items i need, i dont like having to try survive when players or mobs try kill me for doing my job as a powerhouse nuker, i dont like having to rank up undaunted, fighters guild, mages guild, assault and support lines.

but guess what?
i do them anyways.
why?
because i dont whine about them i just do them its called playing the game. if everything was handed to us i'd have walked away years ago. repeatedly doing skill lines is part of the game if you are making alts and i ain't going to be that special snowflake who whines to make it easier, i just get it over with because its not as hard as everyone makes it sound.

you want rewards? do the work. simple as.
so stop whining "why is mah skill/item/winbutton locked behind pvp/pvdoor/pve/pvhouse" because you aren't special, we all do the work because its just how the game rolls and if you cant even be bothered to put in some work, why should you get what others actually earn?
do the work, you get the reward.

Riejael · October 2017

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Why is everything required for PvP locked behind a PvE wall?

This is the better question.

You can't PVP without PVPing in this game.

You also cannot level Soul Magic without soloing, in a MMO. MSQ's in MMOs that are solo only never made sense to me. Thankfully ESO isn't as bad about it as others like FFXIV, but it doesn't help the trend.

Too much focus on PVE and Solo content. Not enough on grouping or PVP.

Apache_Kid · October 2017

Why are certain gear sets locked behind a PvE wall? Why is undaunted mettle behind a PvE wall?

ArchMikem · October 2017

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Why is everything required for PvP locked behind a PvE wall?

Just branch out and do some new things, PvP'ers have a lot more PvE grind than the other way around.

Because PvE is a metric crap ton easier to grind skills than throwing in to the land of gankers, destro ult zergs, and horrendous lag. I don't woe unto thy PvPlayer for there is no woe to be found.

SHADOW2KK · October 2017

Ya would have loved getting Vigor or Caltrops etc back in ancient days, you had to PvP for weeks or months, didnt unlock till Assault/Support 10.

Now you can get it in a couple of hours....

ZoS listened to PvE`ers and lowered the ap needed to get skills to such a laughable degree.

Morgul667 · October 2017

You need to PVE a lot to make a new char for PVP

Same same but different

I think it is fine as it is.