lordrichter wrote: »Demycilian wrote: »ZOS will actually be taking action against the addon cheating? So confused now.
Technically no... no action will be taken against the addon or it's users.
Gina basically said that how the information in the API can be used by those who create add ons in the future will be looked at, so that information ZOS feels should not be accessable will not be.
What is important to remember here is that, today, we have an API that ZOS looked at just a few months ago, and the information ZOS felt should not be accessable, isn't.
I am not exactly sure what people are partying about. Let's wait until after ZOS says what they are going to do, then decide if the party is going to happen.
Oh I agree with you.. People are partying for no reason and reading more into Gina's words than what was actually posted.
I find it rather amusing.
I don't give a rats fuzzy arse what happens when it comes to this program. It doesn't bother me, nor has it ruined my game play when I choose to PVP because I don't give two craps if I do or don't die. I just PVP for fun and find it so simple compared to other end game aspects of ESO, so I don't need the add ons to help me, except maybe Crown Customizer, LOL. I don't care either if someone else kills me. I just port somewhere else and rapid on my mount back to the fight.
As I had said earlier, probably the easiest route ZOS should take is just prevent any add ons from working while in PVP. That way every one is on fair ground.
But how long is that going to keep people happy until they start whining again about something else? or begin blaming others for doing something they aren't doing because they can't admit their issue is their own lack of skills. It's never ending.
Yes, very happy...I was going to ask for a refund as #1 Its totally against ToS (reread it if needed) and #2 taking away my stealth is like taking away a Temps healing...it is FUNDAMENTALLY detremintal to my playstyle and enjoyment of the game. So, crisis averted...those that cant hack PvP without it...loot early, loot often...
p.s. here is just ONE line from ToS...so to all of you saying "ZoS aproves it because its available" LULZ
"ZeniMax does not endorse, sponsor, guaranty or approve any Game Mods, including without limitation Game Mods available for download from a ZeniMax website."
p.s.s. I like the idea of no mods in PvP (minimap dont count)...its a crutch, players on XB/PS4 dont need them to smoke you like a G6...
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Just to let everyone know, we have been keeping a close eye on this thread and everyone's feedback on these types of addons. We can tell you that we're planning to make some changes to our API to disallow some aspects that we're simply not comfortable with. This is all actively in progress, and we'll let you know exactly what we plan to change when we have a better idea of when we'll be rolling it out; we want to give our addon developers a warning so they have a chance to iterate.
Let me explain. Mods, as mentioned in you quote from the tos relate to modifying the core game code/files/assets.
Addons instead use something called APIs (application programming interfaces). These APIs were created by zos specifically to be used by the add-on makers to make their addons. This is where the addons get their game-info from.
(NB an add-on is additional code that runs with the game, not a change to the core game).
So the fact that what an add-on can do is limited by (and therefore controlled by)what the devs choose to make available in their api, is what makes an add-on 'allowed' and therefore not against the tos.
Now modifying the games files/assets on the other hand could potentially mean getting access to more info than the api gives, and so is against the tos. As zos don't allow mods (and so don't provide the tools for it), this would essentially be 'hacking'.
Its not really about lawyer-speak. Its about very different programming activities.
One is akin to being given something and using it, the others is taking without consent.
Let me explain. Mods, as mentioned in you quote from the tos relate to modifying the core game code/files/assets.
Addons instead use something called APIs (application programming interfaces). These APIs were created by zos specifically to be used by the add-on makers to make their addons. This is where the addons get their game-info from.
(NB an add-on is additional code that runs with the game, not a change to the core game).
So the fact that what an add-on can do is limited by (and therefore controlled by)what the devs choose to make available in their api, is what makes an add-on 'allowed' and therefore not against the tos.
Now modifying the games files/assets on the other hand could potentially mean getting access to more info than the api gives, and so is against the tos. As zos don't allow mods (and so don't provide the tools for it), this would essentially be 'hacking'.
Its not really about lawyer-speak. Its about very different programming activities.
One is akin to being given something and using it, the others is taking without consent.
Except this part of those addons does in fact modify the game in such a way that messes up core mechanics so they do not function as intended. They destroy entire builds. I am beyond happy they are going to be doing something, and the people that are mad that they are, they are just bitter.
Let me explain. Mods, as mentioned in you quote from the tos relate to modifying the core game code/files/assets.
Addons instead use something called APIs (application programming interfaces). These APIs were created by zos specifically to be used by the add-on makers to make their addons. This is where the addons get their game-info from.
(NB an add-on is additional code that runs with the game, not a change to the core game).
So the fact that what an add-on can do is limited by (and therefore controlled by)what the devs choose to make available in their api, is what makes an add-on 'allowed' and therefore not against the tos.
Now modifying the games files/assets on the other hand could potentially mean getting access to more info than the api gives, and so is against the tos. As zos don't allow mods (and so don't provide the tools for it), this would essentially be 'hacking'.
Its not really about lawyer-speak. Its about very different programming activities.
One is akin to being given something and using it, the others is taking without consent.
JonnytheKing wrote: »If you Have any Question for Miat leave them in the comments of the video.
https://youtu.be/fOVgRcfoes0
Peekachu99 wrote: »
Let me explain. Mods, as mentioned in you quote from the tos relate to modifying the core game code/files/assets.
Addons instead use something called APIs (application programming interfaces). These APIs were created by zos specifically to be used by the add-on makers to make their addons. This is where the addons get their game-info from.
(NB an add-on is additional code that runs with the game, not a change to the core game).
So the fact that what an add-on can do is limited by (and therefore controlled by)what the devs choose to make available in their api, is what makes an add-on 'allowed' and therefore not against the tos.
Now modifying the games files/assets on the other hand could potentially mean getting access to more info than the api gives, and so is against the tos. As zos don't allow mods (and so don't provide the tools for it), this would essentially be 'hacking'.
Its not really about lawyer-speak. Its about very different programming activities.
One is akin to being given something and using it, the others is taking without consent.
Except the devs/ their publisher can change or revoke any and all functionalities and API permissions given—at any time. We click “yes” to that anytime there’s an update. We are contractually obligated when we do.
I love the people saying "this addon destroys entire builds" that is because you don't really know how to NB. The good NB's have no problem still ganking people even with this addon, it's the bad ones crying that this ruins their build.
are you even aware of the topic of this discussion? I doubt it...You can make any argument you want but if you think balanced game play is coming out of stealth and perma stun cc then bam bam and you are dead...well i am not sure if you know what the word balanced means.
But hey lets let a vocal minority dictate how the rest of us should play because they don't want to adapt. the good NB's adapted, so i guess all that's left are the bad ones crying about this addon.
I love the people saying "this addon destroys entire builds" that is because you don't really know how to NB. The good NB's have no problem still ganking people even with this addon, it's the bad ones crying that this ruins their build.
You can make any argument you want but if you think balanced game play is coming out of stealth and perma stun cc then bam bam and you are dead...well i am not sure if you know what the word balanced means.
And before you give "well just use RM and other skills to avoid being ganked" doesn't that impact my build diversity because of a subset of players who don't really want to fight, just earn ap and run away.
But hey lets let a vocal minority dictate how the rest of us should play because they don't want to adapt. the good NB's adapted, so i guess all that's left are the bad ones crying about this addon.
I love the people saying "this addon destroys entire builds" that is because you don't really know how to NB. The good NB's have no problem still ganking people even with this addon, it's the bad ones crying that this ruins their build.
You can make any argument you want but if you think balanced game play is coming out of stealth and perma stun cc then bam bam and you are dead...well i am not sure if you know what the word balanced means.
And before you give "well just use RM and other skills to avoid being ganked" doesn't that impact my build diversity because of a subset of players who don't really want to fight, just earn ap and run away.
But hey lets let a vocal minority dictate how the rest of us should play because they don't want to adapt. the good NB's adapted, so i guess all that's left are the bad ones crying about this addon.
Let me explain. Mods, as mentioned in you quote from the tos relate to modifying the core game code/files/assets.
Addons instead use something called APIs (application programming interfaces). These APIs were created by zos specifically to be used by the add-on makers to make their addons. This is where the addons get their game-info from.
(NB an add-on is additional code that runs with the game, not a change to the core game).
So the fact that what an add-on can do is limited by (and therefore controlled by)what the devs choose to make available in their api, is what makes an add-on 'allowed' and therefore not against the tos.
Now modifying the games files/assets on the other hand could potentially mean getting access to more info than the api gives, and so is against the tos. As zos don't allow mods (and so don't provide the tools for it), this would essentially be 'hacking'.
Its not really about lawyer-speak. Its about very different programming activities.
One is akin to being given something and using it, the others is taking without consent.
Except this part of those addons does in fact modify the game in such a way that messes up core mechanics so they do not function as intended. They destroy entire builds. I am beyond happy they are going to be doing something, and the people that are mad that they are, they are just bitter.
But I don't really think anyone is mad that they are doing something. I, like many others don't like what the mod can do, and will be happy to see its features reduced.
I just don't think its right to call those who use it (or in some cases any addons) cheats, when we simply don't have a clear statement from zos.
While we would like to keep this thread open with the understanding that there is a desire to discuss this content, we have had to remove quite a few comments from this thread for harassment and insults. We will be closing this thread if it cannot conduct a civil conversation without derailing into flaming other users.
The discussion in this thread has been fineWhy was there even a question about this add-on being a cheat? I only became aware of this add-on today and after a quick google which informed me that part of the addon lets you detect opponent casting while they are in stealth it is obviously a cheat as it bypasses intended game mechanics and balances.
There are so many parts to this add-on that actually seem to access info in a questionable manner but don't seem to be an actual cheat but detection of stealthed opponents without using intended in game mechanics to do so out right crosses the line
Side thought, I wonder if the API changes will be ones that will break all the bots out there?
The saddest part of all is you had so many people come in here and try say the addon didn't fall into the category of cheating. So many people coming in here and trying to justify it as perfectly fine and something that should actually be allowed.
Just the saddest thing. Had people furiously arguing against me that it's "not cheating waahhh boohoo". Just the most shocking thing. Amazing people aren't ashamed of this thing. I used it sure but only out of necessity I hated the thing and want to see it banned. But I don't like putting myself at a disadvantage >95% of people using it.
I haven't heard anything about ZOS doing something about it but the best thing would be to just ban the function that lets you see opponents attacks and just keep the part with the keep cap meter and the out-of-the-way ui stuff.
Like a sad, lonely being that cannot be honest even in a video game, so he cheats.
There are "lonely being that cheats in videogame" accents? That´s new to me
The addon is no different to ones that exist in almost every other MMO. Casting alert addons are pretty standard stuff, just like debuff, cooldown, diminishing return timers, dps meters, resource nodes maps, and boss alerts/timers.
If the "it's cheating" crowd were serious they would insist on a completely addon free play experience, as anything that gives the player information they dont directly see and track for themselves is "cheating".
Is it standard in other MMOs that addons show what invisible opponents are doing while "invisible"?
Also, how many of those MMOs have active spammable evasion mechanics to avoid those cast time abilities?
Oh, and it seems almost half the player base would rather disable all addons in PvP than suffer from Miat's:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376334/would-you-like-add-ons-disabled-for-pvp/p1
The addon is no different to ones that exist in almost every other MMO. Casting alert addons are pretty standard stuff, just like debuff, cooldown, diminishing return timers, dps meters, resource nodes maps, and boss alerts/timers.
If the "it's cheating" crowd were serious they would insist on a completely addon free play experience, as anything that gives the player information they dont directly see and track for themselves is "cheating".
Is it standard in other MMOs that addons show what invisible opponents are doing while "invisible"?
Also, how many of those MMOs have active spammable evasion mechanics to avoid those cast time abilities?
Oh, and it seems almost half the player base would rather disable all addons in PvP than suffer from Miat's:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376334/would-you-like-add-ons-disabled-for-pvp/p1
Since when forum polls with 150 people voting are analogue to whole player base opinion ? It's not how probe is working.
The addon is no different to ones that exist in almost every other MMO. Casting alert addons are pretty standard stuff, just like debuff, cooldown, diminishing return timers, dps meters, resource nodes maps, and boss alerts/timers.
If the "it's cheating" crowd were serious they would insist on a completely addon free play experience, as anything that gives the player information they dont directly see and track for themselves is "cheating".
Is it standard in other MMOs that addons show what invisible opponents are doing while "invisible"?
Also, how many of those MMOs have active spammable evasion mechanics to avoid those cast time abilities?
Oh, and it seems almost half the player base would rather disable all addons in PvP than suffer from Miat's:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376334/would-you-like-add-ons-disabled-for-pvp/p1
Since when forum polls with 150 people voting are analogue to whole player base opinion ? It's not how probe is working.
With 150 sample size the margin of error is 8%.
The addon is no different to ones that exist in almost every other MMO. Casting alert addons are pretty standard stuff, just like debuff, cooldown, diminishing return timers, dps meters, resource nodes maps, and boss alerts/timers.
If the "it's cheating" crowd were serious they would insist on a completely addon free play experience, as anything that gives the player information they dont directly see and track for themselves is "cheating".
Is it standard in other MMOs that addons show what invisible opponents are doing while "invisible"?
Also, how many of those MMOs have active spammable evasion mechanics to avoid those cast time abilities?
Oh, and it seems almost half the player base would rather disable all addons in PvP than suffer from Miat's:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376334/would-you-like-add-ons-disabled-for-pvp/p1
Since when forum polls with 150 people voting are analogue to whole player base opinion ? It's not how probe is working.
With 150 sample size the margin of error is 8%.
Because ? I mean what do You know about people who voted ? How do You know it was representative sample ? How do You know half of them wasnt console players or players who dont even know what term "add-on" means ? What do You know about this people experience with add-ons ? How much of this people is actually using them ? Also since it's open voting how can You know someone didnt asked firends to vote same as him ? I am not agaisnt results of this voting but lets be honest it's far from beeing reliable to the point it can mirror whole player base.
The addon is no different to ones that exist in almost every other MMO. Casting alert addons are pretty standard stuff, just like debuff, cooldown, diminishing return timers, dps meters, resource nodes maps, and boss alerts/timers.
If the "it's cheating" crowd were serious they would insist on a completely addon free play experience, as anything that gives the player information they dont directly see and track for themselves is "cheating".
Is it standard in other MMOs that addons show what invisible opponents are doing while "invisible"?
Also, how many of those MMOs have active spammable evasion mechanics to avoid those cast time abilities?
Oh, and it seems almost half the player base would rather disable all addons in PvP than suffer from Miat's:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376334/would-you-like-add-ons-disabled-for-pvp/p1
Since when forum polls with 150 people voting are analogue to whole player base opinion ? It's not how probe is working.
With 150 sample size the margin of error is 8%.
Because ? I mean what do You know about people who voted ?
How do You know it was representative sample ? How do You know half of them wasnt console players or players who dont even know what term "add-on" means ?
What do You know about this people experience with add-ons ? How much of this people is actually using them ?
Also since it's open voting how can You know someone didnt asked firends to vote same as him ? I am not agaisnt results of this voting but lets be honest it's far from beeing reliable to the point it can mirror whole player base.