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Crystal fragments or Crystal Blast [Poll]

  • Alpheu5
    Alpheu5
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    Crystal fragments ( justify )
    I misclicked when starting the game and never remorphed it.

    Also, no cast time.
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  • WuffyCerulei
    WuffyCerulei
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    Crystal fragments ( justify )
    For pve. It still does a good chunk of a sorc's damage. For pvp, Flame Reach on a Master's inferno staff will do.
    "Buzz Lightyear toy isle shot" Stormcalling/Animal Companions/Assassination PVP build hater

    Bring Back Pure Class Build Power
  • CyrusArya
    CyrusArya
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    Crystal fragments ( justify )
    Quite literally no practical application where crystal blast is better than frags, outside apperently role playing immersion. The opportunity cost is too high. A sorc using crystal blast as their main burst skill is not only not gonna kill anything, but actually likely to get themselves killed in the process.

    Case in point, the first clip of this video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2u7rWqSrBY
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  • OdinForge
    OdinForge
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    Crystal fragments ( justify )
    CyrusArya wrote: »
    Quite literally no practical application where crystal blast is better than frags, outside apperently role playing immersion. The opportunity cost is too high. A sorc using crystal blast as their main burst skill is not only not gonna kill anything, but actually likely to get themselves killed in the process.

    Case in point, the first clip of this video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2u7rWqSrBY

    What a legend.
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  • socivL
    socivL
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    None , i don't/won't play with the crystal. ( justify )
    the only viable option is to remove the sorc class from the game and delete all sorc characters that exist.
    2 templars - 1 cup
  • Wreuntzylla
    Wreuntzylla
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    CyrusArya wrote: »
    Quite literally no practical application where crystal blast is better than frags, outside apperently role playing immersion. The opportunity cost is too high. A sorc using crystal blast as their main burst skill is not only not gonna kill anything, but actually likely to get themselves killed in the process.

    Case in point, the first clip of this video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2u7rWqSrBY

    That's hysterical.

    Also the point of my post. Any pet, whether sorc, warden, engine guardian, whatever, will be a prime anchor for AoE stun...
  • Apherius
    Apherius
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    Crystal fragments ( justify )
    I'm ready for the next wrobel comment :

    Hi guys , we noticed a lot of feedback about crystal blast , we would like to change this , so we will remove the " 10% increased damage " of crystal frag and add it to crystal blast ,to make both morph interresting "

    Or something like

    Hi guys ,we noticed a lot of feedback about crystal blast , we would like to change this ,so we will remove the proc of Crystal fragments , like this you will have the choice between 10% more damage and aoe + CC , this would make both morph interresting "

    In both case i will delete my sorc , then ask to the assitance to give me my sorc back ... then delete it again ! urgh ... what a disgusting gameplay ... it's already boring to spam heavy attack so i couldn't survive more than 2 sec if they nerf crystal at the point where only the crystal blast spam would be a bit useful ...
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
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    None , i don't/won't play with the crystal. ( justify )
    It's a dumb and completely unnecessary "improvement" that lessons my enthusiasm for logging in and playing ESO in the first place
    Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.
  • Rainraven
    Rainraven
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    None , i don't/won't play with the crystal. ( justify )
    Took frags off my bar in Cyrodiil a few weeks ago, and don't miss it. We have more reliable options for burst even before this nerf goes live.

    They can make blast summon a choir of angels, I'm not adding a skill with a windup time in PVP. hahahaNO
  • MehrunesFlagon
    MehrunesFlagon
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    Crystal fragments ( justify )
    I hope nobody is stupid enough to use crystal blast.
  • MehrunesFlagon
    MehrunesFlagon
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    Crystal fragments ( justify )
    I always used Crystal Blast because the AoE damage just makes it much higher dps than any procced Crystal Fragments and I use it more as a spammable. It also clears adds away very well with that AoE, especially when used in melee range in the middle of a rugby scrum of enemies. A 1-second cast time matching the 1-second global cooldown isn't bad at all. It actually seems quite fast.
    It's not likely to be interrupted more than once in a short duration even in pvp due to CC immunity and other factors. In pve, it's just awesome.

    if you were in a pug pve group you would be kicked.in pvp dead in seconds.
  • Mystrius_Archaion
    Mystrius_Archaion
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    Crystal blast ( justify )
    CyrusArya wrote: »
    Quite literally no practical application where crystal blast is better than frags, outside apperently role playing immersion. The opportunity cost is too high. A sorc using crystal blast as their main burst skill is not only not gonna kill anything, but actually likely to get themselves killed in the process.

    Case in point, the first clip of this video:

    You forgot to mention you meant only in pvp.
    In PVE, crystal blast isn't risky and is a LOT more dps anytime there is more than one target close by, while helping to clear the extra targets.

    I think everyone here supporting Crystal Fragments means in pvp or is sadly misinformed in pve.
  • Mystrius_Archaion
    Mystrius_Archaion
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    Crystal blast ( justify )
    I always used Crystal Blast because the AoE damage just makes it much higher dps than any procced Crystal Fragments and I use it more as a spammable. It also clears adds away very well with that AoE, especially when used in melee range in the middle of a rugby scrum of enemies. A 1-second cast time matching the 1-second global cooldown isn't bad at all. It actually seems quite fast.
    It's not likely to be interrupted more than once in a short duration even in pvp due to CC immunity and other factors. In pve, it's just awesome.

    if you were in a pug pve group you would be kicked.in pvp dead in seconds.

    Any group that kicks for one specific skill isn't worth being in, and shows how misinformed they are. Crystal Fragments "instant" cast is still anchored to the global cooldown and an animation. Crystal blast practically takes the same amount of time, or just slightly longer, due to this. You're also casting something else weaker while waiting for crystal fragments to proc, or it would be a weak unmorphed version essentially, while you can spam crystal blast.
    Now, crystal fragments does only single target damage while crystal blast does a little less to the main target but 2/3 of that to each and every target nearby. Crystal blast clearly does more in any AoE situation.

    The overall dps of spamming crystal blast, especially in a group where you're not tanking and getting interrupted, should easily be higher than every 3rd cast(in a perfect world where RNGesus doesn't hate you) being a crystal fragments for only 10% more damage without any AoE 2/3rds damage per add that crystal blast also gets.

    Honestly, a buff to crystal blast to make it more appealing should be a no-brainer for it to earn a spot on a bar. If templars can make puncturing sweep work in melee range then sorcerers can make crystal blast work, and get 8% max health back each cast(note below).



    Note: There is just one bug with the Blood Magic passive. Any lingering effect from a dark magic skill will not allow the next cast of that dark magic skill to trigger the 8% max health heal. It only counts after the secondary effect expires, from what I've seen.
  • MehrunesFlagon
    MehrunesFlagon
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    Crystal fragments ( justify )
    CyrusArya wrote: »
    Quite literally no practical application where crystal blast is better than frags, outside apperently role playing immersion. The opportunity cost is too high. A sorc using crystal blast as their main burst skill is not only not gonna kill anything, but actually likely to get themselves killed in the process.

    Case in point, the first clip of this video:

    You forgot to mention you meant only in pvp.
    In PVE, crystal blast isn't risky and is a LOT more dps anytime there is more than one target close by, while helping to clear the extra targets.

    I think everyone here supporting Crystal Fragments means in pvp or is sadly misinformed in pve.

    sorc has enough aoe damage.you would be gimping your single target if you chose blast over frags
  • Oakmontowls_ESO
    Oakmontowls_ESO
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    CyrusArya wrote: »
    Quite literally no practical application where crystal blast is better than frags, outside apperently role playing immersion. The opportunity cost is too high. A sorc using crystal blast as their main burst skill is not only not gonna kill anything, but actually likely to get themselves killed in the process.

    Case in point, the first clip of this video:

    You forgot to mention you meant only in pvp.
    In PVE, crystal blast isn't risky and is a LOT more dps anytime there is more than one target close by, while helping to clear the extra targets.

    I think everyone here supporting Crystal Fragments means in pvp or is sadly misinformed in pve.

    But in that time you could have also just used a lightning heavy attack to deal similar damage and restore magika.
  • MehrunesFlagon
    MehrunesFlagon
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    Crystal fragments ( justify )
    CyrusArya wrote: »
    Quite literally no practical application where crystal blast is better than frags, outside apperently role playing immersion. The opportunity cost is too high. A sorc using crystal blast as their main burst skill is not only not gonna kill anything, but actually likely to get themselves killed in the process.

    Case in point, the first clip of this video:

    You forgot to mention you meant only in pvp.
    In PVE, crystal blast isn't risky and is a LOT more dps anytime there is more than one target close by, while helping to clear the extra targets.

    I think everyone here supporting Crystal Fragments means in pvp or is sadly misinformed in pve.

    But in that time you could have also just used a lightning heavy attack to deal similar damage and restore magika.

    not to mention being *** on sustain.
  • Mystrius_Archaion
    Mystrius_Archaion
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    Crystal blast ( justify )
    CyrusArya wrote: »
    Quite literally no practical application where crystal blast is better than frags, outside apperently role playing immersion. The opportunity cost is too high. A sorc using crystal blast as their main burst skill is not only not gonna kill anything, but actually likely to get themselves killed in the process.

    Case in point, the first clip of this video:

    You forgot to mention you meant only in pvp.
    In PVE, crystal blast isn't risky and is a LOT more dps anytime there is more than one target close by, while helping to clear the extra targets.

    I think everyone here supporting Crystal Fragments means in pvp or is sadly misinformed in pve.

    sorc has enough aoe damage.you would be gimping your single target if you chose blast over frags

    No, because you're only using Fragments for 10% buff to its damage, which is otherwise identical to Blast's primary target hit, once every 3-4 globals because you have only 35% chance to proc it with every other magicka ability cast.
    Spamming Crystal Blast is more dps than any other weaker skill used to proc Crystal Fragments to make it more single target, otherwise it's the same single target.
  • Mystrius_Archaion
    Mystrius_Archaion
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    Crystal blast ( justify )
    CyrusArya wrote: »
    Quite literally no practical application where crystal blast is better than frags, outside apperently role playing immersion. The opportunity cost is too high. A sorc using crystal blast as their main burst skill is not only not gonna kill anything, but actually likely to get themselves killed in the process.

    Case in point, the first clip of this video:

    You forgot to mention you meant only in pvp.
    In PVE, crystal blast isn't risky and is a LOT more dps anytime there is more than one target close by, while helping to clear the extra targets.

    I think everyone here supporting Crystal Fragments means in pvp or is sadly misinformed in pve.

    But in that time you could have also just used a lightning heavy attack to deal similar damage and restore magika.

    No nononono. A lightning heavy attack does not do the same damage as a Crystal Blast cast. Although, it may get up near there depending on the situation.
    Though, that will not trigger a Crystal Fragments proc so Crystal Fragments will be the same cast time and damage as Crystal Blast without the AoE, if you hard cast it because you never triggered a proc.
  • Mystrius_Archaion
    Mystrius_Archaion
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    Crystal blast ( justify )
    CyrusArya wrote: »
    Quite literally no practical application where crystal blast is better than frags, outside apperently role playing immersion. The opportunity cost is too high. A sorc using crystal blast as their main burst skill is not only not gonna kill anything, but actually likely to get themselves killed in the process.

    Case in point, the first clip of this video:

    You forgot to mention you meant only in pvp.
    In PVE, crystal blast isn't risky and is a LOT more dps anytime there is more than one target close by, while helping to clear the extra targets.

    I think everyone here supporting Crystal Fragments means in pvp or is sadly misinformed in pve.

    But in that time you could have also just used a lightning heavy attack to deal similar damage and restore magika.

    not to mention being *** on sustain.

    I'm in heavy armor with the passive for more magicka return from heavy attacks with a restoration staff and that passive and the CP passive, if I'm using Crystal Blast or any other skill spamming.
    That definitely lessens those problems a lot.
  • Asmael
    Asmael
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    Crystal fragments ( justify )
    CyrusArya wrote: »
    Quite literally no practical application where crystal blast is better than frags, outside apperently role playing immersion. The opportunity cost is too high. A sorc using crystal blast as their main burst skill is not only not gonna kill anything, but actually likely to get themselves killed in the process.

    Case in point, the first clip of this video:

    You forgot to mention you meant only in pvp.
    In PVE, crystal blast isn't risky and is a LOT more dps anytime there is more than one target close by, while helping to clear the extra targets.

    I think everyone here supporting Crystal Fragments means in pvp or is sadly misinformed in pve.

    But in that time you could have also just used a lightning heavy attack to deal similar damage and restore magika.

    not to mention being *** on sustain.

    I'm in heavy armor with the passive for more magicka return from heavy attacks with a restoration staff and that passive and the CP passive, if I'm using Crystal Blast or any other skill spamming.
    That definitely lessens those problems a lot.

    I'm sure you have some parses or DPS tests to back those up. Surely, all the mag sorcs using Crystal Frag competitively in PvE must have it wrong.

    https://youtu.be/RixBfUXquzc

    Almost 60% of his damage also damage nearby targets, just from seeing the top of his combat metrics. Crystal blast is a waste a time, be it PvP or PvE. There is a reason no one uses this - and it's because it's an absolute bottom-tier skill that does worse while being stupidly expensive.
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  • Drummerx04
    Drummerx04
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    Crystal fragments ( justify )
    This is kind of a no brainer. The 1 second cast time is not necessarily easy to interrupt, but the problem is the lack of mobility and defense required to use it. The delay and movement snare under decent enemy pressure is just too risky, the skill becomes essentially untrustworthy.
    I always used Crystal Blast because the AoE damage just makes it much higher dps than any procced Crystal Fragments and I use it more as a spammable. It also clears adds away very well with that AoE, especially when used in melee range in the middle of a rugby scrum of enemies. A 1-second cast time matching the 1-second global cooldown isn't bad at all. It actually seems quite fast.
    It's not likely to be interrupted more than once in a short duration even in pvp due to CC immunity and other factors. In pve, it's just awesome.

    You know what else clears adds in pve? Literally everything.

    Crystal blast may seem fast, but I repeat my position. It's just not really reliable outside of Xv1 situations or as an opener (I'll often open with a hard casted frag). Easily the majority of players that spam crystal blast in cyrodiil are summarily killed with little resistance. The only time such spamming is effective is when there is no way to get to the caster because he's behind 20 of his friends...

    Plain and simple, this is a nerf and in no way makes blast actually look better. I guess it's hard to say exactly how badly this will impact sorc play in cyrodiil, but as always good players will manage, bad-average players will feel weak af.
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  • olsborg
    olsborg
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    Crystal fragments ( justify )
    Cast time skills are inefficient, to the point where they are a big handicap. They are too risky (and again inefficient) to use in pvp, will get you interrupted/killed. Case closed.

    PC EU
    PvP only
  • Mystrius_Archaion
    Mystrius_Archaion
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    Crystal blast ( justify )
    Asmael wrote: »
    CyrusArya wrote: »
    Quite literally no practical application where crystal blast is better than frags, outside apperently role playing immersion. The opportunity cost is too high. A sorc using crystal blast as their main burst skill is not only not gonna kill anything, but actually likely to get themselves killed in the process.

    Case in point, the first clip of this video:

    You forgot to mention you meant only in pvp.
    In PVE, crystal blast isn't risky and is a LOT more dps anytime there is more than one target close by, while helping to clear the extra targets.

    I think everyone here supporting Crystal Fragments means in pvp or is sadly misinformed in pve.

    But in that time you could have also just used a lightning heavy attack to deal similar damage and restore magika.

    not to mention being *** on sustain.

    I'm in heavy armor with the passive for more magicka return from heavy attacks with a restoration staff and that passive and the CP passive, if I'm using Crystal Blast or any other skill spamming.
    That definitely lessens those problems a lot.

    I'm sure you have some parses or DPS tests to back those up. Surely, all the mag sorcs using Crystal Frag competitively in PvE must have it wrong.

    Why would I need parses?

    Here are the truths we know:
    1) Crystal Fragments is the same single target damage as Crystal Blast unless procs for an extra 10%
    2) There is a global "cooldown" of one second so only one attack a second can be fired.(I have heard, perhaps with a weaved light attack)
    3) It takes 3 other skills used, on average, to proc Crystal Fragments as the 4th skill used because of the 35% proc chance on magicka skill activation.
    (Edit: Also, Crystal Blast can be recast while the first crystal flies to the target, making it definitely fast spam, like Dark Flare for templars.)

    So, what other skills would you use between Crystal Fragments procs to proc it that also do not do so much dps that you wouldn't just replace Crystal Fragments with another cast of them??
    If they don't do enough dps to replace Crystal Fragments then they also don't do enough to replace Crystal Blast so why not use Crystal Blast each time and do almost as much dps on the 4th cast while clearly more on the other 3 casts in about the same time as the global cooldown with a hell of a lot more AoE damage?

    Now, you may say "that's when you use DoTs like Blockade of Storms and Liquid Lightning between Crystal Fragments procs", but that doesn't do as much damage as Crystal Blast spam as long as enemies are in range.
    For example, my tooltips alone on a relatively poorly equipped sorcerer are about 1500 damage per second on Liquid Lightning and 900 on Elemental Blockade while my Crystal Blast(and hard cast Fragments) show primary target damage of 6700 for one second cast with an extra 4000 splash to all enemies within range.
    It's no contest at all when you compare anything else you could cast instead of Crystal Blast in single target or AoE situations, unless targets are not positioned well.



    Edit:
    Essentially, combining Blockade of Storms and Liquid Lightning and Lightning Form(500 dps) to 3000 dps with lightning heavy attacks or the occasional Crystal Fragments could top Crystal Blast spam, but that's not the Crystal Fragments doing that. It's the DoTs that are doing all the work.
    Also, you can use at least one or 2 of those DoTs easily with Crystal Blast for higher damage and it still trumps Fragments.
    Edited by Mystrius_Archaion on October 7, 2017 10:09AM
  • Mystrius_Archaion
    Mystrius_Archaion
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    Crystal blast ( justify )
    Drummerx04 wrote: »
    This is kind of a no brainer. The 1 second cast time is not necessarily easy to interrupt, but the problem is the lack of mobility and defense required to use it. The delay and movement snare under decent enemy pressure is just too risky, the skill becomes essentially untrustworthy.
    I always used Crystal Blast because the AoE damage just makes it much higher dps than any procced Crystal Fragments and I use it more as a spammable. It also clears adds away very well with that AoE, especially when used in melee range in the middle of a rugby scrum of enemies. A 1-second cast time matching the 1-second global cooldown isn't bad at all. It actually seems quite fast.
    It's not likely to be interrupted more than once in a short duration even in pvp due to CC immunity and other factors. In pve, it's just awesome.

    You know what else clears adds in pve? Literally everything.

    Crystal blast may seem fast, but I repeat my position. It's just not really reliable outside of Xv1 situations or as an opener (I'll often open with a hard casted frag). Easily the majority of players that spam crystal blast in cyrodiil are summarily killed with little resistance. The only time such spamming is effective is when there is no way to get to the caster because he's behind 20 of his friends...

    Plain and simple, this is a nerf and in no way makes blast actually look better. I guess it's hard to say exactly how badly this will impact sorc play in cyrodiil, but as always good players will manage, bad-average players will feel weak af.

    PVP is different. We already agreed on that because of players being smarter than programmed NPCs.
    As for PVE, I bet you never really tested or even looked at Crystal Blast mathematically to compare and just go by what others say.

    I posted my numbers and it's hard to see anything that could be as good as Crystal Blast spam for single target or properly grouped AoE in pve.
  • Elsonso
    Elsonso
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    Crystal fragments ( justify )
    For my existing characters? No cast time is more important than CC.

    My new Sorcerers? Well, probably fewer of them, but will start with Blast, then switch to Frag with a respec later on.
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  • Mystrius_Archaion
    Mystrius_Archaion
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    Crystal blast ( justify )
    olsborg wrote: »
    Cast time skills are inefficient, to the point where they are a big handicap. They are too risky (and again inefficient) to use in pvp, will get you interrupted/killed. Case closed.

    pvp pvp pvp pvp pvp pvp

    What about pve?
    I'm talking about PVE, especially when you're not the tank in a group, where Crystal Blast actually shines much much more.


    I guess I know what part of the game most forum posters exclusively play and have a one-track mind towards....
    Edited by Mystrius_Archaion on October 7, 2017 10:11AM
  • MehrunesFlagon
    MehrunesFlagon
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    Crystal fragments ( justify )
    Asmael wrote: »
    CyrusArya wrote: »
    Quite literally no practical application where crystal blast is better than frags, outside apperently role playing immersion. The opportunity cost is too high. A sorc using crystal blast as their main burst skill is not only not gonna kill anything, but actually likely to get themselves killed in the process.

    Case in point, the first clip of this video:

    You forgot to mention you meant only in pvp.
    In PVE, crystal blast isn't risky and is a LOT more dps anytime there is more than one target close by, while helping to clear the extra targets.

    I think everyone here supporting Crystal Fragments means in pvp or is sadly misinformed in pve.

    But in that time you could have also just used a lightning heavy attack to deal similar damage and restore magika.

    not to mention being *** on sustain.

    I'm in heavy armor with the passive for more magicka return from heavy attacks with a restoration staff and that passive and the CP passive, if I'm using Crystal Blast or any other skill spamming.
    That definitely lessens those problems a lot.

    I'm sure you have some parses or DPS tests to back those up. Surely, all the mag sorcs using Crystal Frag competitively in PvE must have it wrong.

    https://youtu.be/RixBfUXquzc

    Almost 60% of his damage also damage nearby targets, just from seeing the top of his combat metrics. Crystal blast is a waste a time, be it PvP or PvE. There is a reason no one uses this - and it's because it's an absolute bottom-tier skill that does worse while being stupidly expensive.

    .would be better to make a stam moprh than wasting their time on this ***.I can also see it effecting weaving, which is always clunkier if the damn skill has a cast time.
  • phileunderx2
    phileunderx2
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    I used blast about 2 yes ago when I was a noob and didn't know any better. Then I switched to frags. Now I run with pets so I use neither.
  • MehrunesFlagon
    MehrunesFlagon
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    Crystal fragments ( justify )
    Asmael wrote: »
    CyrusArya wrote: »
    Quite literally no practical application where crystal blast is better than frags, outside apperently role playing immersion. The opportunity cost is too high. A sorc using crystal blast as their main burst skill is not only not gonna kill anything, but actually likely to get themselves killed in the process.

    Case in point, the first clip of this video:

    You forgot to mention you meant only in pvp.
    In PVE, crystal blast isn't risky and is a LOT more dps anytime there is more than one target close by, while helping to clear the extra targets.

    I think everyone here supporting Crystal Fragments means in pvp or is sadly misinformed in pve.

    But in that time you could have also just used a lightning heavy attack to deal similar damage and restore magika.

    not to mention being *** on sustain.

    I'm in heavy armor with the passive for more magicka return from heavy attacks with a restoration staff and that passive and the CP passive, if I'm using Crystal Blast or any other skill spamming.
    That definitely lessens those problems a lot.

    I'm sure you have some parses or DPS tests to back those up. Surely, all the mag sorcs using Crystal Frag competitively in PvE must have it wrong.

    https://youtu.be/RixBfUXquzc

    Almost 60% of his damage also damage nearby targets, just from seeing the top of his combat metrics. Crystal blast is a waste a time, be it PvP or PvE. There is a reason no one uses this - and it's because it's an absolute bottom-tier skill that does worse while being stupidly expensive.

    Not to mention that when a parse you are more concerned with single target than aoe.
  • Noxulous
    Noxulous
    Soul Shriven
    Crystal blast ( justify )
    crystal blast could be weaved with 2 light attacks simultaneously, which could be paired with poisons or enchants obviously, and the stun allowed you to ensure they all connected almost simultaneously as well, allowing insane burst damage that allowed me to kill people in pvp almost outright, highly underrated skill.
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