Shuffle Skill is going to be locked under Medium Armor - PVP

amir412 · October 2017

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Ever since 1.6 - 1.7 (or so), snares have been becoming more and more popular. Add to that the amount of undodgeable skills and PVP becomes tiresome over time.

So, if you guys are willing to take a moment and read what I've got to say about this, here it goes;

1. Shuffle on med armor exclusively is a good change.

3. Med armor needs a bit more buffing to be equalized with light.

4. Major evasion should not be possible in 5+ heavy, only minor evasion (might as well deal with it right now).

5. This means that a skill like blur needs to be changed into minor evasion (like the minor resistances buff one of the morphs adds, and potentially minor speed buff for the other morph).

6. Snares are out of control and in need of a major/minor system as well. 15% for minor, 30% for major, no more 60% snares and spammable.

6. Med armor should either reduce the duration of snares (there are sets that do this so it can be done) by a % per piece, or dodge roll. Whatever you judge is better.

7. Snares in general (minor/major) should not last longer than a few seconds.

8. Heavy armor active should give cc immunity for as long as breakfree cc immunity lasts, and the cost should be reduced a bit. The morph that reduces breakfree cost is good too, the other one should be looked into and potentially changed a bit.

9. Certain tankiness combos such as undeath + major protection (or even bloodspawn) and high resistances to begin with, need to be adjusted a bit, things can get out of control here too.

10. Heavy armor offensive sets need to be tuned down, this promotes group play of tanks that tank and heal together, then deal high amounts of damage when they proc the condition collectively, it's absolutely idiotic game design.

There's nothing wrong having a good strategy as a group but if everyone's riding the tank meta on sets like fury, seventh and some other ones I can't remember right now, it's really lame. All offensive sets should give no more than 20-30% more power compared to (for example) hunding's rage. Not 100%+.

11. The amount of undodgeable skills needs to go down, this is one of the reasons why medium armor can't compete, in addition to offensive heavy sets being OP under certain circumstances.

I'll add more if I think about it later, this is just at the top of my head.

Now stop arguing and let's have a nice discussion instead.

You pointed really nice things, we all see's in our dueling sessions.
But there is a reason ur'e not playing ur stam dk anymore. You know the class is hard to play, especially after the big morrow nerf, zos force us to be tanky as hell build on ult, Shuffle change will just create even more tank oriented gameplay.
Honestly i just think zos should implent a decent counter to snares / tune them down abit as u said.

amir412 · October 2017

Was thinking about,
Maybe shuffle should lose the Major Evasion but still give a snare removal on activation.
Then, Make a passive while wearing 5 pieces of med armor u gain permant Major Evasion. - This is balance in my eyes.

@Ragnaroek93

Maulkin · October 2017

Good change, wrong timing (with regards to the tons of undodgeable effects & snares introduced) but let's see how this plays out.

A lot of people have been complaining about the survivability of HA builds. Forcing some of those builds down the Forward Momentum path for snare removal will reduce their heals and losing the Major Evasion will increase the damage they take. So survivability for stamina tanks is going down big time. Including NBs, who will have to find a bar slot for Mirage if they want Evasion and thus miss out on something else.

Magica tanks remain largely unaffected, bar the resto ult which they weren't really using anyway.

PS. Can we buy a nerf for Heroic Slash's snare? That skill does too much. Good damage, Maim, Heroism and 12" snare.

LegendaryMage · October 2017

amir412 wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Ever since 1.6 - 1.7 (or so), snares have been becoming more and more popular. Add to that the amount of undodgeable skills and PVP becomes tiresome over time.

So, if you guys are willing to take a moment and read what I've got to say about this, here it goes;

1. Shuffle on med armor exclusively is a good change.

3. Med armor needs a bit more buffing to be equalized with light.

4. Major evasion should not be possible in 5+ heavy, only minor evasion (might as well deal with it right now).

5. This means that a skill like blur needs to be changed into minor evasion (like the minor resistances buff one of the morphs adds, and potentially minor speed buff for the other morph).

6. Snares are out of control and in need of a major/minor system as well. 15% for minor, 30% for major, no more 60% snares and spammable.

6. Med armor should either reduce the duration of snares (there are sets that do this so it can be done) by a % per piece, or dodge roll. Whatever you judge is better.

7. Snares in general (minor/major) should not last longer than a few seconds.

8. Heavy armor active should give cc immunity for as long as breakfree cc immunity lasts, and the cost should be reduced a bit. The morph that reduces breakfree cost is good too, the other one should be looked into and potentially changed a bit.

9. Certain tankiness combos such as undeath + major protection (or even bloodspawn) and high resistances to begin with, need to be adjusted a bit, things can get out of control here too.

10. Heavy armor offensive sets need to be tuned down, this promotes group play of tanks that tank and heal together, then deal high amounts of damage when they proc the condition collectively, it's absolutely idiotic game design.

There's nothing wrong having a good strategy as a group but if everyone's riding the tank meta on sets like fury, seventh and some other ones I can't remember right now, it's really lame. All offensive sets should give no more than 20-30% more power compared to (for example) hunding's rage. Not 100%+.

11. The amount of undodgeable skills needs to go down, this is one of the reasons why medium armor can't compete, in addition to offensive heavy sets being OP under certain circumstances.

I'll add more if I think about it later, this is just at the top of my head.

Now stop arguing and let's have a nice discussion instead.

You pointed really nice things, we all see's in our dueling sessions.
But there is a reason ur'e not playing ur stam dk anymore. You know the class is hard to play, especially after the big morrow nerf, zos force us to be tanky as hell build on ult, Shuffle change will just create even more tank oriented gameplay.
Honestly i just think zos should implent a decent counter to snares / tune them down abit as u said.

I barely play ESO nowadays, there's just too many things that I'm not a fan of, I've never been more casual than now. Stam DK is messed up, as is stam templar.

I like playing both, in addition to the NB which has the most ridiculous damage output when built up in a certain way (and mine isn't even dueling oriented at all), so all in all, I'm just not into it anymore really.

I'm much happier to go on an archer build and just pin players down out of nowhere, although you have to be in offline mode when doing that.

amir412 · October 2017

LegendaryMage wrote: »

I barely play ESO nowadays, there's just too many things that I'm not a fan of, I've never been more casual than now. Stam DK is messed up, as is stam templar.

I like playing both, in addition to the NB which has the most ridiculous damage output when built up in a certain way (and mine isn't even dueling oriented at all), so all in all, I'm just not into it anymore really.

I'm much happier to go on an archer build and just pin players down out of nowhere, although you have to be in offline mode when doing that.

LOL, i figured that u gave up on the game. dont blame ya.

Maulkin wrote: »

Good change, wrong timing (with regards to the tons of undodgeable effects & snares introduced) but let's see how this plays out.

A lot of people have been complaining about the survivability of HA builds. Forcing some of those builds down the Forward Momentum path for snare removal will reduce their heals and losing the Major Evasion will increase the damage they take. So survivability for stamina tanks is going down big time. Including NBs, who will have to find a bar slot for Mirage if they want Evasion and thus miss out on something else.

Magica tanks remain largely unaffected, bar the resto ult which they weren't really using anyway.

PS. Can we buy a nerf for Heroic Slash's snare? That skill does too much. Good damage, Maim, Heroism and 12" snare.

Touch heroic slash (dmg, minor heroic, ult regen [dont care about the snare]) and pretty much skill based stam dk is done. It will make pepole just spam dizzing swing like ***. It's the only decent skill that keeps somewhat stam dk's alive.

Mureel · October 2017

amir412 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Nobody used it for dodge chance. Most people in heavy want to get hit for wrath and constitution passives, as well as things like fury and 7th legion.

People use it for snare removal - because every skill in this game is a snare these days.

Blur is irrelevant really. Most stamblades are in medium as it is.

Come meet my stamina nb in heavy with blur... i'm sure u'll regret.

*oops wrong quote!*

Maulkin · October 2017

amir412 wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

I barely play ESO nowadays, there's just too many things that I'm not a fan of, I've never been more casual than now. Stam DK is messed up, as is stam templar.

I like playing both, in addition to the NB which has the most ridiculous damage output when built up in a certain way (and mine isn't even dueling oriented at all), so all in all, I'm just not into it anymore really.

I'm much happier to go on an archer build and just pin players down out of nowhere, although you have to be in offline mode when doing that.

LOL, i figured that u gave up on the game. dont blame ya.

Maulkin wrote: »

Good change, wrong timing (with regards to the tons of undodgeable effects & snares introduced) but let's see how this plays out.

A lot of people have been complaining about the survivability of HA builds. Forcing some of those builds down the Forward Momentum path for snare removal will reduce their heals and losing the Major Evasion will increase the damage they take. So survivability for stamina tanks is going down big time. Including NBs, who will have to find a bar slot for Mirage if they want Evasion and thus miss out on something else.

Magica tanks remain largely unaffected, bar the resto ult which they weren't really using anyway.

PS. Can we buy a nerf for Heroic Slash's snare? That skill does too much. Good damage, Maim, Heroism and 12" snare.

Touch heroic slash (dmg, minor heroic, ult regen [dont care about the snare]) and pretty much skill based stam dk is done. It will make pepole just spam dizzing swing like ***. It's the only decent skill that keeps somewhat stam dk's alive.

Well, no I wouldn't touch the dmg, ult regent or maim. Like I said it's only the huge duration snare on top that makes it a dickish skill. Otherwise it's a necessary insta-cast damage skill for S&B stamina builds.

thankyourat · October 2017

I'm confused why everyone thinks light armor is so much better than medium armor they have pretty much exactly the same buffs. If you aren't a sorcerer there is no reason to run light instead of heavy. And the light armor ability annulment is trash if you aren't a sorcerer. Light armor is just as squishy as medium. It may just not seem that way because every light armor build uses some sort of defensive weapon either resto staff or sword and board. Without either of those medium is actually more tanky than light.

DeHei · October 2017

Great changes!

Now we just need a slightly damage mitigation buff for medium armor... maybe give them penetration like light armor and all is fine again

Maulkin · October 2017

thankyourat wrote: »

I'm confused why everyone thinks light armor is so much better than medium armor they have pretty much exactly the same buffs. If you aren't a sorcerer there is no reason to run light instead of heavy. And the light armor ability annulment is trash if you aren't a sorcerer. Light armor is just as squishy as medium. It may just not seem that way because every light armor build uses some sort of defensive weapon either resto staff or sword and board. Without either of those medium is actually more tanky than light.

Light armor generally requires you to be a high mobility class because when you start taking heat from >2 players, shields or not you still gotta move your ass out of harms way and split them up into 1v1s or you're toast pretty quickly. It's not only Sorc though, MageBlade is also viable in cloth exactly for the same reasons, mobility through Summon Shade and Cloak.

As for Annulment it is certainly not trash especially since they changed it to absorb all types of damage. It has become staple for all Light Armor builds in PvE to avoid damage spikes from bosses or for protection when the healer goes down. Go look at magicka DPS builds for all classes bar Sorc and they have Harness Magicka on 1 bar 100% of the times.

Like I said, sitting on a spot spamming shields you won't last long. That's why It's mostly Sorc and NB that use Annulment. The other classes lack the escape tools, so they'd rather play Heavy Armor and tank rather than go Light Armor + Annulment and be sitting ducks.

thankyourat · October 2017

Maulkin wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I'm confused why everyone thinks light armor is so much better than medium armor they have pretty much exactly the same buffs. If you aren't a sorcerer there is no reason to run light instead of heavy. And the light armor ability annulment is trash if you aren't a sorcerer. Light armor is just as squishy as medium. It may just not seem that way because every light armor build uses some sort of defensive weapon either resto staff or sword and board. Without either of those medium is actually more tanky than light.

Light armor generally requires you to be a high mobility class because when you start taking heat from >2 players, shields or not you still gotta move your ass out of harms way and split them up into 1v1s or you're toast pretty quickly. It's not only Sorc though, MageBlade is also viable in cloth exactly for the same reasons, mobility through Summon Shade and Cloak.

As for Annulment it is certainly not trash especially since they changed it to absorb all types of damage. It has become staple for all Light Armor builds in PvE to avoid damage spikes from bosses or for protection when the healer goes down. Go look at magicka DPS builds for all classes bar Sorc and they have Harness Magicka on 1 bar 100% of the times.

Like I said, sitting on a spot spamming shields you won't last long. That's why It's mostly Sorc and NB that use Annulment. The other classes lack the escape tools, so they'd rather play Heavy Armor and tank rather than go Light Armor + Annulment and be sitting ducks.

For pve annulment is good because it's a oh crap ability you can use for survival so you won't be oneshot by trial bosses. For pvp however it's just a weak shield that cost 4000 magicka. Magblade can work in light and i actually think it's better than heavy if you if you go melee. For destro/ resto or just standard magblade builds heavy will be stronger than light. Same with stamblade it's actually better in heavy armor as well. Which is my point light armor really isn't any better than medium armor. You can play it and it's balanced just like medium armor but in pvp it's not as good as heavy armor. Shuffle in pvp is actually better than harness magicka. On my magblade i choose double take over annulment 100% of the time. I just think the sorcerer class is making people think light armor is better than it is

amir412 · October 2017

Mureel wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Nobody used it for dodge chance. Most people in heavy want to get hit for wrath and constitution passives, as well as things like fury and 7th legion.

People use it for snare removal - because every skill in this game is a snare these days.

Blur is irrelevant really. Most stamblades are in medium as it is.

Come meet my stamina nb in heavy with blur... i'm sure u'll regret.

*oops wrong quote!*

Youre so funny man, i cracked up.

Maulkin wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I'm confused why everyone thinks light armor is so much better than medium armor they have pretty much exactly the same buffs. If you aren't a sorcerer there is no reason to run light instead of heavy. And the light armor ability annulment is trash if you aren't a sorcerer. Light armor is just as squishy as medium. It may just not seem that way because every light armor build uses some sort of defensive weapon either resto staff or sword and board. Without either of those medium is actually more tanky than light.

Light armor generally requires you to be a high mobility class because when you start taking heat from >2 players, shields or not you still gotta move your ass out of harms way and split them up into 1v1s or you're toast pretty quickly. It's not only Sorc though, MageBlade is also viable in cloth exactly for the same reasons, mobility through Summon Shade and Cloak.

As for Annulment it is certainly not trash especially since they changed it to absorb all types of damage. It has become staple for all Light Armor builds in PvE to avoid damage spikes from bosses or for protection when the healer goes down. Go look at magicka DPS builds for all classes bar Sorc and they have Harness Magicka on 1 bar 100% of the times.

Like I said, sitting on a spot spamming shields you won't last long. That's why It's mostly Sorc and NB that use Annulment. The other classes lack the escape tools, so they'd rather play Heavy Armor and tank rather than go Light Armor + Annulment and be sitting ducks.

Nice things u say dude, approved. x)

Jade1986 · October 2017

Arobain wrote: »

about time in my opinion, evasion is very powerful and everyone was using it

You had some people using that AND annulment in heavy -_-, much dumb so cheese.....

Maulkin · October 2017

thankyourat wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I'm confused why everyone thinks light armor is so much better than medium armor they have pretty much exactly the same buffs. If you aren't a sorcerer there is no reason to run light instead of heavy. And the light armor ability annulment is trash if you aren't a sorcerer. Light armor is just as squishy as medium. It may just not seem that way because every light armor build uses some sort of defensive weapon either resto staff or sword and board. Without either of those medium is actually more tanky than light.

Light armor generally requires you to be a high mobility class because when you start taking heat from >2 players, shields or not you still gotta move your ass out of harms way and split them up into 1v1s or you're toast pretty quickly. It's not only Sorc though, MageBlade is also viable in cloth exactly for the same reasons, mobility through Summon Shade and Cloak.

As for Annulment it is certainly not trash especially since they changed it to absorb all types of damage. It has become staple for all Light Armor builds in PvE to avoid damage spikes from bosses or for protection when the healer goes down. Go look at magicka DPS builds for all classes bar Sorc and they have Harness Magicka on 1 bar 100% of the times.

Like I said, sitting on a spot spamming shields you won't last long. That's why It's mostly Sorc and NB that use Annulment. The other classes lack the escape tools, so they'd rather play Heavy Armor and tank rather than go Light Armor + Annulment and be sitting ducks.

For pve annulment is good because it's a oh crap ability you can use for survival so you won't be oneshot by trial bosses. For pvp however it's just a weak shield that cost 4000 magicka. Magblade can work in light and i actually think it's better than heavy if you if you go melee. For destro/ resto or just standard magblade builds heavy will be stronger than light. Same with stamblade it's actually better in heavy armor as well. Which is my point light armor really isn't any better than medium armor. You can play it and it's balanced just like medium armor but in pvp it's not as good as heavy armor. Shuffle in pvp is actually better than harness magicka. On my magblade i choose double take over annulment 100% of the time. I just think the sorcerer class is making people think light armor is better than it is

Annulment morphed into Dampen is the biggest shield in the game bar Barrier Ult so assessing it as being a weak shield for 4k Magicka is way out of line. Harness also has the potential to be more efficient than Hardened Ward when fighting magicka buils.

Most mageblades have both Double Take and Harness/Dampen anyway, one for speed and Evasion one for absorbing damage. As for going heavy armour as a mageblade, you lose out on both damage (through reduced penetration and having to choose sustain over damage sets) and sustain, but you gain some tankiness. Works for some, doesn't for others.

To summarise, I don't have a problem with your opinion that Light is not much better than medium in PVP. I do have a problem with calling Annulment a crap skill though.

Jade1986 · October 2017

Juhasow wrote: »

It's a good change overall which I wanted since a long time. Only concern I have and which I can understand OP have is that it can limit some builds like stam DK to not enjoyable setups similar to these like many Youtubers have where You're simply a tank who can survive almost everything but is able to kill only unexperienced players who makes lot of mistakes. Leaving build like stamDK with forward momentum as only way to counter snares forces him to run with that kind of tanky setups because tankiness is his only way to survive. It's hard to survive on stam DK with medium armor agaisnt players who have good burst since DK dont have escapability similar to sorc or nb or cant purge negative effects like templar.

I would reccomend to think about solutions for that like adding 2 categories for snares Major and Minor like rest of debuffs because amount of different snares in the game is incredibly high.
Other solution could be for example (just a simple thought) adding to Fragmented Shield (which noone already uses) snares and immobilizes removal and 3 seconds immunity to those effects. Dk would have to choose then between more tanky and survival but slower playstyle with Igneous Shield and more mobile but less taknky playstyle with Fragmented Shield.

You can still use heavy armor, you just arent as mobile. HA is a huge survivability plus for stamdks in pvp.

thankyourat · October 2017

Maulkin wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I'm confused why everyone thinks light armor is so much better than medium armor they have pretty much exactly the same buffs. If you aren't a sorcerer there is no reason to run light instead of heavy. And the light armor ability annulment is trash if you aren't a sorcerer. Light armor is just as squishy as medium. It may just not seem that way because every light armor build uses some sort of defensive weapon either resto staff or sword and board. Without either of those medium is actually more tanky than light.

Light armor generally requires you to be a high mobility class because when you start taking heat from >2 players, shields or not you still gotta move your ass out of harms way and split them up into 1v1s or you're toast pretty quickly. It's not only Sorc though, MageBlade is also viable in cloth exactly for the same reasons, mobility through Summon Shade and Cloak.

As for Annulment it is certainly not trash especially since they changed it to absorb all types of damage. It has become staple for all Light Armor builds in PvE to avoid damage spikes from bosses or for protection when the healer goes down. Go look at magicka DPS builds for all classes bar Sorc and they have Harness Magicka on 1 bar 100% of the times.

Like I said, sitting on a spot spamming shields you won't last long. That's why It's mostly Sorc and NB that use Annulment. The other classes lack the escape tools, so they'd rather play Heavy Armor and tank rather than go Light Armor + Annulment and be sitting ducks.

For pve annulment is good because it's a oh crap ability you can use for survival so you won't be oneshot by trial bosses. For pvp however it's just a weak shield that cost 4000 magicka. Magblade can work in light and i actually think it's better than heavy if you if you go melee. For destro/ resto or just standard magblade builds heavy will be stronger than light. Same with stamblade it's actually better in heavy armor as well. Which is my point light armor really isn't any better than medium armor. You can play it and it's balanced just like medium armor but in pvp it's not as good as heavy armor. Shuffle in pvp is actually better than harness magicka. On my magblade i choose double take over annulment 100% of the time. I just think the sorcerer class is making people think light armor is better than it is

Annulment morphed into Dampen is the biggest shield in the game bar Barrier Ult so assessing it as being a weak shield for 4k Magicka is way out of line. Harness also has the potential to be more efficient than Hardened Ward when fighting magicka buils.

Most mageblades have both Double Take and Harness/Dampen anyway, one for speed and Evasion one for absorbing damage. As for going heavy armour as a mageblade, you lose out on both damage (through reduced penetration and having to choose sustain over damage sets) and sustain, but you gain some tankiness. Works for some, doesn't for others.

To summarise, I don't have a problem with your opinion that Light is not much better than medium in PVP. I do have a problem with calling Annulment a crap skill though.

You don't have to give up sustain in heavy though that's the crazy part when i play heavy armor magblade i can sustain with under 1000 regen and play solo so i can just stack damage. with argonian potion passive minor magicka steal and constitution passive/ heavy attack magicka return the sustain is crazy. If you wear light you have to wear some sort of defensive set which will lower your damage I'm still hitting 14k assasin wills in heavy armor. The thing with annulment is to run it you have to give up some form of utility to use it. If a magblade is using double take and annulment they probably gave up cloak or shade. All of the magblade class utility is stronger than annulment and for the class better. The only shield stacking magblades i see run with decent size groups. Maybe it's more viable for group play i won't comment on that but for solo play the skill really is trash its expensive and not very strong and only last 6 seconds. To get a very strong annulment you have to build for it. But as a magblade It's much better to build around hots and cloak/shade you'll be much harder to kill. I really only see sorcerers using annulment regularly. I think other classes are finding out annulment really isn't that great without another shield to layer it with. Even sorcerers i know are starting to drop it

Derra · October 2017

thankyourat wrote: »

I'm confused why everyone thinks light armor is so much better than medium armor they have pretty much exactly the same buffs. If you aren't a sorcerer there is no reason to run light instead of heavy. And the light armor ability annulment is trash if you aren't a sorcerer. Light armor is just as squishy as medium. It may just not seem that way because every light armor build uses some sort of defensive weapon either resto staff or sword and board. Without either of those medium is actually more tanky than light.

Light armor is better than medium armor because it has better set choices avaiable imo.

Wizard's Riposte and Transmutation are insanely effective defensive options.
Overwhelming is one of the last really valuable proccsets.
Magica in general has better sustain sets available with lich, seducer, amberplasm and alteration mastery.

Medium has nothing that compares to light armor defensive or sustain sets.

thankyourat · October 2017

Derra wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I'm confused why everyone thinks light armor is so much better than medium armor they have pretty much exactly the same buffs. If you aren't a sorcerer there is no reason to run light instead of heavy. And the light armor ability annulment is trash if you aren't a sorcerer. Light armor is just as squishy as medium. It may just not seem that way because every light armor build uses some sort of defensive weapon either resto staff or sword and board. Without either of those medium is actually more tanky than light.

Light armor is better than medium armor because it has better set choices avaiable imo.

Wizard's Riposte and Transmutation are insanely effective defensive options.
Overwhelming is one of the last really valuable proccsets.
Magica in general has better sustain sets available with lich, seducer, amberplasm and alteration mastery.

Medium has nothing that compares to light armor defensive or sustain sets.

That i do agree with light armor has really good sets really all medium has is bone pirate. But i dont think the whole armor skill line needs a buff. It just needs better sets and maybe stamina in general needs better spamable dps options. None of that has to do with medium armor though. I do feel light armor does need better sustain sets though because magicka abilities are so expensive and some classes like sorc and dk had to spam these expensive abilities.

Derra · October 2017

thankyourat wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I'm confused why everyone thinks light armor is so much better than medium armor they have pretty much exactly the same buffs. If you aren't a sorcerer there is no reason to run light instead of heavy. And the light armor ability annulment is trash if you aren't a sorcerer. Light armor is just as squishy as medium. It may just not seem that way because every light armor build uses some sort of defensive weapon either resto staff or sword and board. Without either of those medium is actually more tanky than light.

Light armor is better than medium armor because it has better set choices avaiable imo.

Wizard's Riposte and Transmutation are insanely effective defensive options.
Overwhelming is one of the last really valuable proccsets.
Magica in general has better sustain sets available with lich, seducer, amberplasm and alteration mastery.

Medium has nothing that compares to light armor defensive or sustain sets.

That i do agree with light armor has really good sets really all medium has is bone pirate. But i dont think the whole armor skill line needs a buff. It just needs better sets and maybe stamina in general needs better spamable dps options. None of that has to do with medium armor though. I do feel light armor does need better sustain sets though because magicka abilities are so expensive and some classes like sorc and dk had to spam these expensive abilities.

Hard to say.
It´s either a slight buff to medium armor and keep the current set themes or a buff to medium armor setbonuses.

Both would definetly be over the top.

amir412 · October 2017

Derra wrote: »

Hard to say.
It´s either a slight buff to medium armor and keep the current set themes or a buff to medium armor setbonuses.

Both would definetly be over the top.

@Derra give me ur opinion on that -

Shuffle - No longer has Major Evasion but remove snares on activation, and some x Minor buff (perhaps not)
Medium Armor - Wearing 5 pieces will gain the user Major Evasion in all times.

This way heavy users can still deal with snares in open world, lose abit of tankiness cuz 15% dodge chance is gone.
Med armor will gain abit of dmg cuz now players can drop shuffle for more offensive skill.

Defilted · October 2017

Looks like I am going to have to re-gear my tava PVE tank.....

Juhasow · October 2017

laced wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

It's a good change overall which I wanted since a long time. Only concern I have and which I can understand OP have is that it can limit some builds like stam DK to not enjoyable setups similar to these like many Youtubers have where You're simply a tank who can survive almost everything but is able to kill only unexperienced players who makes lot of mistakes. Leaving build like stamDK with forward momentum as only way to counter snares forces him to run with that kind of tanky setups because tankiness is his only way to survive. It's hard to survive on stam DK with medium armor agaisnt players who have good burst since DK dont have escapability similar to sorc or nb or cant purge negative effects like templar.

I would reccomend to think about solutions for that like adding 2 categories for snares Major and Minor like rest of debuffs because amount of different snares in the game is incredibly high.
Other solution could be for example (just a simple thought) adding to Fragmented Shield (which noone already uses) snares and immobilizes removal and 3 seconds immunity to those effects. Dk would have to choose then between more tanky and survival but slower playstyle with Igneous Shield and more mobile but less taknky playstyle with Fragmented Shield.

You can still use heavy armor, you just arent as mobile. HA is a huge survivability plus for stamdks in pvp.

I know I pointed that out . Problem is You're limited to tanky playstyle that can survive a lot but have not enough dmg to kill more experienced players.

Juhasow · October 2017

Or maybe make Heavy Armor skill Immovable granting 3 sec snaes/immobilize immunity instead CC immunity.

amir412 · October 2017

Juhasow wrote: »

Or maybe make Heavy Armor skill Immovable granting 3 sec snaes/immobilize immunity instead CC immunity.

could actually be a good one,
They wrote that the duration of the skill will be increased , does it ment for the immov duration or the major resolve buffs?

kookster · October 2017

amir412 wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Or maybe make Heavy Armor skill Immovable granting 3 sec snaes/immobilize immunity instead CC immunity.

could actually be a good one,
They wrote that the duration of the skill will be increased , does it ment for the immov duration or the major resolve buffs?

I just checked PTS, its resistance buffs. This skill is still crap.

amir412 · October 2017

kookster wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Or maybe make Heavy Armor skill Immovable granting 3 sec snaes/immobilize immunity instead CC immunity.

could actually be a good one,
They wrote that the duration of the skill will be increased , does it ment for the immov duration or the major resolve buffs?

I just checked PTS, its resistance buffs. This skill is still crap.

RIP.

Chilly-McFreeze · October 2017

For all I care they could strip the major resolve/ward part.

Unstoppable increases duration based on HA parts. Great. That's 2 seconds longer than the base morph in 7. Have to recaste it anyway for the immunity. But I can't since it consumes nearly 5k stamina.
And since I don't really decide when someone will CC me (although one might anticipate it), I could waste the bonus on Brute when I'm on the other bar. Limits it to front bar use a bit.

Increase knockbar immunity time. Add snare/root immunity. Reduce costs.
Unstoppable reduces increases duration.
Brute adds Break Free cost reduction when active.

If it becomes too good, remove resistance buffs and tone down break free costs reduction a bit.

amir412 · October 2017

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

For all I care they could strip the major resolve/ward part.

Unstoppable increases duration based on HA parts. Great. That's 2 seconds longer than the base morph in 7. Have to recaste it anyway for the immunity. But I can't since it consumes nearly 5k stamina.
And since I don't really decide when someone will CC me (although one might anticipate it), I could waste the bonus on Brute when I'm on the other bar. Limits it to front bar use a bit.

Increase knockbar immunity time. Add snare/root immunity. Reduce costs.
Unstoppable reduces increases duration.
Brute adds Break Free cost reduction when active.

If it becomes too good, remove resistance buffs and tone down break free costs reduction a bit.

The skill is so bad it has no pages in Wiki XDDDDDDDDD
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Immovable

Merlin13KAGL · October 2017

If it hasn't been done already, was going to offer up that they could keep the skills available to all, but with a 50% reduction in either time or effectiveness when not on the 'correct' armor.

Thinking about it though, I suspect this would make the skills completely lose their value on alternate setups, leading to the removal entirely ~ what they're proposing now.

I do think these skills could be put to use on alternate armors, viewing more as a technique learned, rather than a spell cast.

If wouldn't be as effective as the original intended association, but it wouldn't be completely devoid either.

Chilly-McFreeze · October 2017

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

If it hasn't been done already, was going to offer up that they could keep the skills available to all, but with a 50% reduction in either time or effectiveness when not on the 'correct' armor.

Thinking about it though, I suspect this would make the skills completely lose their value on alternate setups, leading to the removal entirely ~ what they're proposing now.

I do think these skills could be put to use on alternate armors, viewing more as a technique learned, rather than a spell cast.

If wouldn't be as effective as the original intended association, but it wouldn't be completely devoid either.

Or something like that the long passives (evasion on shuffle, ward/resolve on immovable, resource return on harness) only apply when 5 piece req is met, while the "active part" is still usable by all (snare removal, knockback immunity, the shield itself).