PTS Patch Notes Preview: Combat changes that will be in on Monday

melloni_aleb16_ESO · September 2017

(I carry what I wrote in another post in the pts )

About : CHANGING ARMOR ACTIVEs

I knew it, I also wrote it some weeks ago -.-

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4436315/#Comment_4436315

@ZOS this change makes no sense if " NOT ADJUSTED " Medium armour and making it playable . All classes in medium A. other than a NBs are free AP

And magicka chars in Heavy ? this update don't touch them . The worst classes-cancerous are templar in Heavy , Dkm in heavy .

I do not want to believe it, but how do you reason? are you serious ?

take some streamers or pay someone who can balance with the brain Jesus Christ

Toc de Malsvi · September 2017

baratron wrote: »

From ESO Live today:

. . .

Change to Siphoner passive in Champion System (used in PvP). This is to help with “super long fights where no one is running out of resources or fights”. Up to 25% restore, from 15% that it was previously. Helps to distinguish between high-damage burst builds and sustain builds.
. . .

I hate to point out the obvious but this doesn't fix the very thing they are claiming to fix. S&B sustain builds get most of their sustain from Armor sets or Heavy armor passives. Neither of which will get majorly hurt by this. Low end recovery builds that survive FOREVER do not hurt from percentage recovery debuffs.

This will hurt primarily MA or LA who are relying on recovery as their primary sustain. So the squishier builds get sustain hurt the worst. This is the same dumb numb nuts logic that gave us stupid block costs while doing nothing to perma blockers.

S&B+Resto FTW live forever!

Anti_Virus · September 2017

Finally made armor abilities require 5 of the respective armor set, it's about time this is the best change so far.

As A heavy armor user it was borderline stupid to fight other heavy armor users with evasion up.

Mojmir · September 2017

since theyre going to go through with this no matter what feedback we give them, just make every class sorc with different colors

Anti_Virus · September 2017

baratron wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

As for this "The Warden has 3 clearly-defined class lines: one for each of the game's roles. ZOS want to gradually make all classes like this - " when i heard that live i said out loud "oh no please not."

That way lies sameness.

And also, that immediately steps on one of the warden's differences... that was "the warden sctick" to me.

I dunno. I kinda like this idea. Too many new players who have come from less flexible MMOs assume that the Dragonknight is for Tanking and the Templar is for Healing, and no other way of doing things is possible.

I'm open-minded to the change at least until I have a better idea of what they're planning. Then I'll decide if it sounds stupid or not.

I too am In favor of this new change going forward.

DK:
Ardent Flame- DPS
Dragonic Power: Tank
Earthen Heart: Heal/Support

Templar:
Aedric spear- DPS
Dawn's Wrath - Tank
Restoring Light- Heal/Support

Sorc
Dark magic- Tank
Daedric Summoning- Heal/Support
Storm Calling- DPS

NB
Assassination- DPS
Shadow- Tank
Siphoning- Heal/Support

Cadbury · September 2017

Mojmir wrote: »

since theyre going to go through with this no matter what feedback we give them, just make every class Warden with different colors

FTFY

MehrunesFlagon · September 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

The armor 5pc one is a thing i have to mull over. My gut is telling me quite a few sets just got a bit of stupid added to them.

i would have preferred a more staged shift - like say increase the armor ability costs but then reduce them for each piece of the matching armor worn.

As for this "The Warden has 3 clearly-defined class lines: one for each of the game's roles. ZOS want to gradually make all classes like this - " when i heard that live i said out loud "oh no please not."

That way lies sameness.

And also, that immediately steps on one of the warden's differences... that was "the warden sctick" to me.

sigh.

Oh hell no.

Ragnaroek93 · September 2017

Brrrofski wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Who's using shuffle for dodge chance??

Definitely not what I use it for.

I've wanted this saying it for ages because the heavy armor meta is so boring. Wish they'd address heavy itself though.

Like on a Stam character next patch in a small group/solo, you can either run medium and take insane damage and have bad healing plus lower health, run heavy and be snared forever or use forward momentum and lack a burst heal. Guess stamplar population will shoot up... Or an increased amount of stamblades which work fine in medium

So it's fine for you that heavy armor stamina gets nerfed while heavy armor magicka builds aren't touched at all? I think that magicka builds will just roll over stamina with this change because they are already damn strong in the current meta (except magicka sorc - ironically the magicka class people complain the most about - simply because burst classes struggle in tank metas).

baratron wrote: »

Change to Siphoner passive in Champion System (used in PvP). This is to help with “super long fights where no one is running out of resources or fights”. Up to 25% restore, from 15% that it was previously. Helps to distinguish between high-damage burst builds and sustain builds.

That's interesting. Would have probably prefered an adjustment to Battlespirit (more damage for everyone) and a rework for vampire undeath passive to shorten fights but this is worth a try actually, need to test that out. Actually a good thing that they want to shorten the duration which fights take these days.

casparian wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

baratron wrote: »

CHANGING ARMOR ACTIVES. You will now need 5 pieces of Light Armor to use Annulment, 5 Medium to use Evasion, 5 Heavy for Immovable. Currently anyone can use any of them. Now the Nightblade evasion ability is cool, because Tanks can wear Heavy Armor and use it.

I'm very worried about this one. Will make nightblades the strongest heavy armor class (stamina) by far. I think heavy armor needs some more adjustments but I don't think that this is the right way. Will also destroy Tavas builds for example which is a very bad thing, nothing that we should be happy about.

It will destroy Tava's builds for non-NB tanks. Nothing wrong with giving NBs a niche tankng advantage.

Nor do I think it's fair to say that NBs will now be the strongest heavy armor class. They still can't do the Block+Fury+Blood Spawn+Wrath+Leap thing, for instance.

To my mind, the real measure of the new 5-pieces requirement will be whether it gives stam builds a reason to go into Cyrodiil in 5 medium again.

I dunno, the Fury Dk build isn't a thing on my server (stam Dk is considered rather weak there and I agree with that) while there are heavy armor stamnbs which are extremely strong and will be even stronger compared to other stam classes (tho I have to admit that these heavy armor stamnbs play dueling builds which aren't viable open world because no Cloak, gapcloser and Shadow Image so we shouldn't focus too much on that).

Not at all, that's my point. I hate the heavy armor meta, but I want them to address heavy armor itself. This kills heavy on Stam. I'd rather kill heavy in PvP in general.

You wanna tank, cool. But you shouldn't be able to do crazy damage too.

But then stamblade and mag sorc will just tear everyone apart. That's the problem when heavy armor goes.

Light armor would just stomp over medium armor as well because light armor builds usually have a counter to stacked burst (mist form or block) and a counter to pressure (strong spammable shields or burst heals) while medium armor struggles with counters to these. Don't see a way how a well played mag dk, magplar, magwarden or magblade would not just slay the medium armor user (fighting a magsorc would be the best matchup you can hope for in my opinion).

Soris · September 2017

baratron wrote: »

From ESO Live today:
...
CHANGING ARMOR ACTIVES. You will now need 5 pieces of Light Armor to use Annulment, 5 Medium to use Evasion, 5 Heavy for Immovable. Currently anyone can use any of them. Now the Nightblade evasion ability is cool, because Tanks can wear Heavy Armor and use it.

Does that mean heavy armor active is about to getting buffed in some way? Such as longer immunity duration..?
About *** time!

MehrunesFlagon · September 2017

Mojmir wrote: »

We complained warden was subpar for dps in pve but great in pvp, now they want to base the rest of the classes off this.
This is the greatest nerf we've ever asked for.

ret arded idea.

Doctordarkspawn · September 2017

Joy_Division wrote: »

baratron wrote: »

From ESO Live today:

The Warden has 3 clearly-defined class lines: one for each of the game's roles. ZOS want to gradually make all classes like this - so Siphoning will become the NB Healing line. With this in mind, ZOS changed Agony to Malevolent Offering. It uses your HP to heal allies – a heal which doesn't cost Magicka or Stamina. However once you started it, you couldn't shut it off and newer players were killing themselves. So now it has an upfront HP cost. You can't use it if you don't have enough health.

Is anyone else worried about this?

So as a templar, ZoS wants to take away the bread and butter of our DPS skill in shards, sweeps, and charge, just so I can spam Reflective Light and Jesus Beam everyone? It's already bad enough I have one-skill line dedicated to healing when I try to play something that isn't a healer. Or does ZoS plan on moving Sweeps and Charge Dawn's Wrath, so I can't access my Aedric Spear passives and create an entire skill line devoted to tanking even though Templars are unwanted as tanks?

This will pretty much strangle what remains of build diversity since because we no longer can choose from 15 all purpose skills, we've confided to 5 that fit our role. And I'm pretty sure having only 4 DPS skills is a big factor why the warden's DPS is terrible. As it is, pretty much all the Wardens' I run into Cyrodiil have the same build and do the same thing because two thirds of the skills are specialized to do roles that players aren't trying to fulfill.

It seems like ZoS wont be happy until they finally make it so a Dragonknight won;t be laughed at as a healer, but while doing so tear the guts out of the in-your-face archetype that many players who chose the class in the first place and thus put the nail in the coffin of what was the most enjoyable and best designed class at launch.

Are you kidding me? This is exactly what they'll do.

ZOS just needs to do this, up everyones offensive and self-healing power, and remove class rolls entirely. Enough of this ***. If we wanna make everyone everything, lets just -do it-. I would like, to be able to 'play how I want' and this system would finally allow that. Wanna play a tanky brawler? Fine, you can.

Enough with the pretense. ZOS hates rolls. Lets eliminate those rolls so ZOS can finally stop.

MehrunesFlagon · September 2017

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

baratron wrote: »

From ESO Live today:

. . .

Change to Siphoner passive in Champion System (used in PvP). This is to help with “super long fights where no one is running out of resources or fights”. Up to 25% restore, from 15% that it was previously. Helps to distinguish between high-damage burst builds and sustain builds.
. . .

I hate to point out the obvious but this doesn't fix the very thing they are claiming to fix. S&B sustain builds get most of their sustain from Armor sets or Heavy armor passives. Neither of which will get majorly hurt by this. Low end recovery builds that survive FOREVER do not hurt from percentage recovery debuffs.

This will hurt primarily MA or LA who are relying on recovery as their primary sustain. So the squishier builds get sustain hurt the worst. This is the same dumb numb nuts logic that gave us stupid block costs while doing nothing to perma blockers.

S&B+Resto FTW live forever!

yeah supposed to fix them but only really hurts the damage focused.

Soris · September 2017

As for templar aedric spear line... I really wish they remove or change the jabs. God i hate that skill, terrible animation terrible sound. Make it a direct dmg skill like dk whips and change that spear animation

Waffennacht · September 2017

Changes to syphoner makes sets that provide resources independent of Regen better.

It makes the heavy armor passive stronger

It makes resource Poisons stronger

It hurts those that stack Regen the most.

These all lead me to believe LA w Harness and Heavy armor Passives + something like Desert Rose the most desirable

The armor changes - only makes me sad Heavy can't use Dampen any more.

(My very first thought is medium armor gets hurt the most with these changes)

Derra · September 2017

Joy_Division wrote: »

baratron wrote: »

From ESO Live today:

The Warden has 3 clearly-defined class lines: one for each of the game's roles. ZOS want to gradually make all classes like this - so Siphoning will become the NB Healing line. With this in mind, ZOS changed Agony to Malevolent Offering. It uses your HP to heal allies – a heal which doesn't cost Magicka or Stamina. However once you started it, you couldn't shut it off and newer players were killing themselves. So now it has an upfront HP cost. You can't use it if you don't have enough health.

Is anyone else worried about this?

So as a templar, ZoS wants to take away the bread and butter of our DPS skill in shards, sweeps, and charge, just so I can spam Reflective Light and Jesus Beam everyone? It's already bad enough I have one-skill line dedicated to healing when I try to play something that isn't a healer. Or does ZoS plan on moving Sweeps and Charge Dawn's Wrath, so I can't access my Aedric Spear passives and create an entire skill line devoted to tanking even though Templars are unwanted as tanks?

This will pretty much strangle what remains of build diversity since because we no longer can choose from 15 all purpose skills, we've confided to 5 that fit our role. And I'm pretty sure having only 4 DPS skills is a big factor why the warden's DPS is terrible. As it is, pretty much all the Wardens' I run into Cyrodiil have the same build and do the same thing because two thirds of the skills are specialized to do roles that players aren't trying to fulfill.

It seems like ZoS wont be happy until they finally make it so a Dragonknight won;t be laughed at as a healer, but while doing so tear the guts out of the in-your-face archetype that many players who chose the class in the first place and thus put the nail in the coffin of what was the most enjoyable and best designed class at launch.

They´re going down the route of dumbing down the game as every casual pve game (wow and swtor being my main examples coming to mind both having dumbed down their skill/classtress extremely over the years) have.

1 tank tree / 1 heal tree / 1 dd tree.

One year from now you´ll have to choose in eso what role you want to play and be restricted from choosing certain skills/morphs/classtrees because they don´t fit your chosen role.
Mark my words...

DDuke · September 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

Changes to syphoner makes sets that provide resources independent of Regen better.

It makes the heavy armor passive stronger

It makes resource Poisons stronger

It hurts those that stack Regen the most.

These all lead me to believe LA w Harness and Heavy armor Passives + something like Desert Rose the most desirable

The armor changes - only makes me sad Heavy can't use Dampen any more.

(My very first thought is medium armor gets hurt the most with these changes)

As much as I'd love another opportunity to lament how bad medium armor is, it's actually the armor type least affected by the Siphoning passive.

Siphoning passive procs from light/heavy attacks, the vast majority of which are dodgeable (with either shuffle or dodge roll). Combined with cloak (if stamblade), the actual uptime on Siphoner is relatively low compared to other armor types.

MehrunesFlagon · September 2017

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

baratron wrote: »

From ESO Live today:

The Warden has 3 clearly-defined class lines: one for each of the game's roles. ZOS want to gradually make all classes like this - so Siphoning will become the NB Healing line. With this in mind, ZOS changed Agony to Malevolent Offering. It uses your HP to heal allies – a heal which doesn't cost Magicka or Stamina. However once you started it, you couldn't shut it off and newer players were killing themselves. So now it has an upfront HP cost. You can't use it if you don't have enough health.

Is anyone else worried about this?

So as a templar, ZoS wants to take away the bread and butter of our DPS skill in shards, sweeps, and charge, just so I can spam Reflective Light and Jesus Beam everyone? It's already bad enough I have one-skill line dedicated to healing when I try to play something that isn't a healer. Or does ZoS plan on moving Sweeps and Charge Dawn's Wrath, so I can't access my Aedric Spear passives and create an entire skill line devoted to tanking even though Templars are unwanted as tanks?

This will pretty much strangle what remains of build diversity since because we no longer can choose from 15 all purpose skills, we've confided to 5 that fit our role. And I'm pretty sure having only 4 DPS skills is a big factor why the warden's DPS is terrible. As it is, pretty much all the Wardens' I run into Cyrodiil have the same build and do the same thing because two thirds of the skills are specialized to do roles that players aren't trying to fulfill.

It seems like ZoS wont be happy until they finally make it so a Dragonknight won;t be laughed at as a healer, but while doing so tear the guts out of the in-your-face archetype that many players who chose the class in the first place and thus put the nail in the coffin of what was the most enjoyable and best designed class at launch.

They´re going down the route of dumbing down the game as every casual pve game (wow and swtor being my main examples coming to mind both having dumbed down their skill/classtress extremely over the years) have.

1 tank tree / 1 heal tree / 1 dd tree.

One year from now you´ll have to choose in eso what role you want to play and be restricted from choosing certain skills/morphs/classtrees because they don´t fit your chosen role.
Mark my words...

all so the braindead can play

MehrunesFlagon · September 2017

cmetzger93 wrote: »

I for one am super excited that they are wanting to make all classes able to fill each role!

why the hell?

Mojmir · September 2017

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

baratron wrote: »

From ESO Live today:

The Warden has 3 clearly-defined class lines: one for each of the game's roles. ZOS want to gradually make all classes like this - so Siphoning will become the NB Healing line. With this in mind, ZOS changed Agony to Malevolent Offering. It uses your HP to heal allies – a heal which doesn't cost Magicka or Stamina. However once you started it, you couldn't shut it off and newer players were killing themselves. So now it has an upfront HP cost. You can't use it if you don't have enough health.

Is anyone else worried about this?

So as a templar, ZoS wants to take away the bread and butter of our DPS skill in shards, sweeps, and charge, just so I can spam Reflective Light and Jesus Beam everyone? It's already bad enough I have one-skill line dedicated to healing when I try to play something that isn't a healer. Or does ZoS plan on moving Sweeps and Charge Dawn's Wrath, so I can't access my Aedric Spear passives and create an entire skill line devoted to tanking even though Templars are unwanted as tanks?

This will pretty much strangle what remains of build diversity since because we no longer can choose from 15 all purpose skills, we've confided to 5 that fit our role. And I'm pretty sure having only 4 DPS skills is a big factor why the warden's DPS is terrible. As it is, pretty much all the Wardens' I run into Cyrodiil have the same build and do the same thing because two thirds of the skills are specialized to do roles that players aren't trying to fulfill.

It seems like ZoS wont be happy until they finally make it so a Dragonknight won;t be laughed at as a healer, but while doing so tear the guts out of the in-your-face archetype that many players who chose the class in the first place and thus put the nail in the coffin of what was the most enjoyable and best designed class at launch.

They´re going down the route of dumbing down the game as every casual pve game (wow and swtor being my main examples coming to mind both having dumbed down their skill/classtress extremely over the years) have.

1 tank tree / 1 heal tree / 1 dd tree.

One year from now you´ll have to choose in eso what role you want to play and be restricted from choosing certain skills/morphs/classtrees because they don´t fit your chosen role.
Mark my words...

all so the braindead can play

see, these people get it

Lucky28 · September 2017

Joy_Division wrote: »

baratron wrote: »

From ESO Live today:

The Warden has 3 clearly-defined class lines: one for each of the game's roles. ZOS want to gradually make all classes like this - so Siphoning will become the NB Healing line. With this in mind, ZOS changed Agony to Malevolent Offering. It uses your HP to heal allies – a heal which doesn't cost Magicka or Stamina. However once you started it, you couldn't shut it off and newer players were killing themselves. So now it has an upfront HP cost. You can't use it if you don't have enough health.

Is anyone else worried about this?

I would be. but honestly i don't know if this game is gonna have any players left by the time that happens. Morrowind already just decimated the player base so many guilds disbanded so many players gone (PvE and PvP) honestly it doesn't look good one way or the other.

but yes, if i still had some level of hope for this game. i would be very worried.

IxSTALKERxI · September 2017

I'm actually impressed by this as some of the changes happening seem to be based off player feedback. It's almost like as if wrobel read my posts on the forums...

I am concerned with the idea of skill lines for classes changing though... I mean how would you add a healing tree to the DK class without screwing up current builds or making them OP?

Own · September 2017

The siphoner change is too much. all others are good.

technohic · September 2017

I'm not too worried about every class having a skill line for every roll. I'm worried they'd just do it wrong. Then there's more than just role. There's "archetype" I guess you'd call it. Mele DPS, Ranged DPS, Rogue? Heal tanks, dodge tanks, mitigation tanks, tank Magee? Just not sure how you align all that

Kilandros · September 2017

My guess is they will effectively homogenize the classes and most of the class skills (same basic effects, different animations) either in anticipation of or alongside Spellcrafting. Ever since they showcased Spellcrafting I've firmly believed that development on it stalled because they couldn't figure out how to fit it into existing classes without completely destroying balance (If you remember the video on Spellcrafting, it was basically done--they had the system fully fleshed out).

Vapirko · September 2017

These sound great, a lot of good changes here that will move us away from cancerous builds and towards skilled pvp.

Rohamad_Ali · September 2017

This all sounds good on paper . Maybe I'll upload PTS and check it out after all .

Cinbri · September 2017

For the first time i read preview of changes and agree every single one

MLGProPlayer · September 2017

Anti_Virus wrote: »

baratron wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

As for this "The Warden has 3 clearly-defined class lines: one for each of the game's roles. ZOS want to gradually make all classes like this - " when i heard that live i said out loud "oh no please not."

That way lies sameness.

And also, that immediately steps on one of the warden's differences... that was "the warden sctick" to me.

I dunno. I kinda like this idea. Too many new players who have come from less flexible MMOs assume that the Dragonknight is for Tanking and the Templar is for Healing, and no other way of doing things is possible.

I'm open-minded to the change at least until I have a better idea of what they're planning. Then I'll decide if it sounds stupid or not.

I too am In favor of this new change going forward.

DK:
Ardent Flame- DPS
Dragonic Power: Tank
Earthen Heart: Heal/Support

Templar:
Aedric spear- DPS
Dawn's Wrath - Tank
Restoring Light- Heal/Support

Sorc
Dark magic- Tank
Daedric Summoning- Heal/Support
Storm Calling- DPS

NB
Assassination- DPS
Shadow- Tank
Siphoning- Heal/Support

How will people justify wardens being underpowered now? People say it's okay because they're a jack-of-all-trades class that isn't supposed to be good in any role. Now everyone is going to be a jack-of-all-trades!

NBrookus · September 2017

Why would I have 10 characters -- 2 of which I paid crowns to unlock -- if they all have the same basic skills with different animations and colors?

Morgul667 · September 2017

Many things look good

Im not a fan of the class skills line remake, we have enough troubles already, for me no need to break and redo what was class defining.

Im sad for TAVA tanks though