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PTS Patch Notes Preview: Combat changes that will be in on Monday

baratron
baratron
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From ESO Live today:

On PTS, the bug has been fixed where weapon enchantments weren't firing while you were blocking.

DK's Petrify was changed to an unblockable stun - turns out these are really powerful. So now it requires melee range (8m) to hit. (Reduced from 15m).

NB's Executioner passive currently gives Magicka when YOU kill someone, which is not v group-friendly. Now if ANYONE kills the enemy 2s after you use it, you get Magicka OR Stamina returned. And the return is instant rather than a return over time. This is still useful to solo players but means the passive is also useful to group players.

The Warden has 3 clearly-defined class lines: one for each of the game's roles. ZOS want to gradually make all classes like this - so Siphoning will become the NB Healing line. With this in mind, ZOS changed Agony to Malevolent Offering. It uses your HP to heal allies – a heal which doesn't cost Magicka or Stamina. However once you started it, you couldn't shut it off and newer players were killing themselves. So now it has an upfront HP cost. You can't use it if you don't have enough health.

The Warden's Feral Guardian has been updated so the bear has both CC and root immunity when you activate the ability. Makes him more reliable at getting to the target. Also if he is actively rooted, you activate the ability to get him out of it. They could have made him always CC-immune but then he would eat your face in PvP – this way he's still possible to kill. More changes planned to the Warden's bear in the future to improve his pathing AI, since he tends to run off and get lost.

Beams from Betty Netch & Engine Guardian helm can be seen even when you're stealthed (duh!). This is being fixed.

Warden's Secluded Grove Ultimate is really powerful and low cost. They could make it more expensive or less powerful. The Warden doesn't have a really big emergency heal like Rushed Ceremony, so this is the class's "oh crap" heal. They could have made it cheaper or adjusted the value of the heal over time – they've gone with reducing the HoT. This may be adjusted again.

CHANGING ARMOR ACTIVES. You will now need 5 pieces of Light Armor to use Annulment, 5 Medium to use Evasion, 5 Heavy for Immovable. Currently anyone can use any of them. Now the Nightblade evasion ability is cool, because Tanks can wear Heavy Armor and use it.

Change to Siphoner passive in Champion System (used in PvP). This is to help with “super long fights where no one is running out of resources or fights”. Up to 25% restore, from 15% that it was previously. Helps to distinguish between high-damage burst builds and sustain builds.

Also in a future PTS, they are looking at adjusting the value of Eye of the Storm, so they can reduce the strength of the ability used in PvP without changing the one used in PvE. They will also be looking at Panacea and Shield Wall because they are very cheap, and it's hard to kill people using these Ultimates.
Guildmaster of the UESP Guild on the North American PC/Mac Server 810+ CP
Martin Draconis - Imperial Sorceror Healer (Aldmeri Dominion) level 50
Alix de Feu - Breton Templar Healer (Daggerfall Covenant) level 50
Arzhela Petit - Breton Dragonknight Healer (Daggerfall Covenant) level 50
Brings-His-Own-Forest - Argonian Warden Healer (Aldmeri Dominion) level 50
Verandis Bloodraven - Altmer Nightblade Healer & clone of Count Verandis Ravenwatch (Aldmeri Dominion) level 50
Bjornolfr Steel-Shaper - Nord Dragonknight Crafter & Not-Much-Damage Dealer (Ebonheart Pact) level 50
Hrodulf Bearpaw - Nord Warden Bear Friend & identical twin of Bjornolfr (Aldmeri Dominion) level 50
Gethin Oakrun - Bosmer Nightblade Thief & terrible Tank (Ebonheart Pact) level 50
  • casparian
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    baratron wrote: »
    CHANGING ARMOR ACTIVES. You will now need 5 pieces of Light Armor to use Annulment, 5 Medium to use Evasion, 5 Heavy for Immovable. Currently anyone can use any of them. Now the Nightblade evasion ability is cool, because Tanks can wear Heavy Armor and use it.

    I'm very worried about this one. Will make nightblades the strongest heavy armor class (stamina) by far. I think heavy armor needs some more adjustments but I don't think that this is the right way. Will also destroy Tavas builds for example which is a very bad thing, nothing that we should be happy about.

    It will destroy Tava's builds for non-NB tanks. Nothing wrong with giving NBs a niche tankng advantage.

    Nor do I think it's fair to say that NBs will now be the strongest heavy armor class. They still can't do the Block+Fury+Blood Spawn+Wrath+Leap thing, for instance.

    To my mind, the real measure of the new 5-pieces requirement will be whether it gives stam builds a reason to go into Cyrodiil in 5 medium again.
    Former 7-day PVP campaign regular, Flawless Conqueror. MagDK/stamsorc/stamplar/mageblade. Currently retired from the wars; waiting on performance improvements.
  • Minno
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    Metafae wrote: »
    It's going to make the armor master set useless.

    I used to use it with medium armor and light armor skills one on each bar.

    But being in heavy I won't be able to use that set at all anymore.

    Good job.

    You still can. Just deslot the class armor buff for the HA one in using that set.
  • DDuke
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    SodanTok wrote: »
    baratron wrote: »
    CHANGING ARMOR ACTIVES. You will now need 5 pieces of Light Armor to use Annulment, 5 Medium to use Evasion, 5 Heavy for Immovable. Currently anyone can use any of them. Now the Nightblade evasion ability is cool, because Tanks can wear Heavy Armor and use it.

    I feel like this is more Forward Momentum 'buff'. The 15% dodge chance is far from what made heavy strong and still contributing very little to medium (which is dying to undodgeable and/or hard bursting abilities). Snare immunity is the real deal.
    Not that it is not welcomed change. Just changes very little for medium.

    Well, atleast it makes heavy a bit less tanky for us medium users with close to zero undodgeables - so that's a small win I guess (though people will just find another skill to run in its stead).


    There's still a lot of work that needs to be done in order to bring medium in line with the other armor types.
    Edited by DDuke on September 29, 2017 9:57PM
  • technohic
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    Wait. They're buffing siphoned? Maybe they should just make it effect constitution in stead of boost it more
  • Metafae
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    STEVIL wrote: »
    i would have preferred a more staged shift - like say increase the armor ability costs but then reduce them for each piece of the matching armor worn.

    This is the best middle ground on this. It allows it to still be used.

    But I still would have liked being able to use Harness Magicka and Shuffle on my DK tank with armor master.

    It was a fun build to use.

    That being said, I have been wondering if I should decon my gold armor master gear for a while now. This will push me in that direction. Immovable is just too expensive and not really beneficial for a tank that already has major ward and resolve.
  • Minno
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    baratron wrote: »
    From ESO Live today:

    The Warden has 3 clearly-defined class lines: one for each of the game's roles. ZOS want to gradually make all classes like this - so Siphoning will become the NB Healing line. With this in mind, ZOS changed Agony to Malevolent Offering. It uses your HP to heal allies – a heal which doesn't cost Magicka or Stamina. However once you started it, you couldn't shut it off and newer players were killing themselves. So now it has an upfront HP cost. You can't use it if you don't have enough health.

    Is anyone else worried about this?

    So as a templar, ZoS wants to take away the bread and butter of our DPS skill in shards, sweeps, and charge, just so I can spam Reflective Light and Jesus Beam everyone? It's already bad enough I have one-skill line dedicated to healing when I try to play something that isn't a healer. Or does ZoS plan on moving Sweeps and Charge Dawn's Wrath, so I can't access my Aedric Spear passives and create an entire skill line devoted to tanking even though Templars are unwanted as tanks?

    This will pretty much strangle what remains of build diversity since because we no longer can choose from 15 all purpose skills, we've confided to 5 that fit our role. And I'm pretty sure having only 4 DPS skills is a big factor why the warden's DPS is terrible. As it is, pretty much all the Wardens' I run into Cyrodiil have the same build and do the same thing because two thirds of the skills are specialized to do roles that players aren't trying to fulfill.

    It seems like ZoS wont be happy until they finally make it so a Dragonknight won;t be laughed at as a healer, but while doing so tear the guts out of the in-your-face archetype that many players who chose the class in the first place and thus put the nail in the coffin of what was the most enjoyable and best designed class at launch.

    Yes I'm kinda worried.

    Templars weren't designed around 3 distinct lines; they were forced into two diverse mixed lines because we had one skill line dedicated to major healing.
  • Brrrofski
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    Who's using shuffle for dodge chance??

    Definitely not what I use it for.

    I've wanted this, been saying it for ages because the heavy armor meta is so boring. Wish they'd address heavy itself though.

    Like on a Stam character next patch in a small group/solo, you can either run medium and take insane damage and have bad healing plus lower health, run heavy and be snared forever or use forward momentum and lack a burst heal. Guess stamplar population will shoot up... Or an increased amount of stamblades which work fine in medium
    Edited by Brrrofski on September 29, 2017 11:23PM
    Xbox One EU
  • cmetzger93
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    I for one am super excited that they are wanting to make all classes able to fill each role!
  • Metafae
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    I really was hoping they went the other way with the distinct skill lines.

    I was hoping they allowed some of the natures balance skills to be able to do dps.
  • Elsonso
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    baratron wrote: »
    From ESO Live today:

    The Warden has 3 clearly-defined class lines: one for each of the game's roles. ZOS want to gradually make all classes like this - so Siphoning will become the NB Healing line. With this in mind, ZOS changed Agony to Malevolent Offering. It uses your HP to heal allies – a heal which doesn't cost Magicka or Stamina. However once you started it, you couldn't shut it off and newer players were killing themselves. So now it has an upfront HP cost. You can't use it if you don't have enough health.

    Is anyone else worried about this?

    So as a templar, ZoS wants to take away the bread and butter of our DPS skill in shards, sweeps, and charge, just so I can spam Reflective Light and Jesus Beam everyone? It's already bad enough I have one-skill line dedicated to healing when I try to play something that isn't a healer. Or does ZoS plan on moving Sweeps and Charge Dawn's Wrath, so I can't access my Aedric Spear passives and create an entire skill line devoted to tanking even though Templars are unwanted as tanks?

    This will pretty much strangle what remains of build diversity since because we no longer can choose from 15 all purpose skills, we've confided to 5 that fit our role. And I'm pretty sure having only 4 DPS skills is a big factor why the warden's DPS is terrible. As it is, pretty much all the Wardens' I run into Cyrodiil have the same build and do the same thing because two thirds of the skills are specialized to do roles that players aren't trying to fulfill.

    It seems like ZoS wont be happy until they finally make it so a Dragonknight won;t be laughed at as a healer, but while doing so tear the guts out of the in-your-face archetype that many players who chose the class in the first place and thus put the nail in the coffin of what was the most enjoyable and best designed class at launch.

    It is a tremendous cost savings for them. They can make three skill lines, complete with morphs, one for each of the three roles. Then, all they have to do is copy them to all the classes, change the names, and come up with custom effects and animations (if they have the time).

  • Mojmir
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    This is not balance, it's more pidgeon-holing.
    I get the 5 PC armor restriction, that makes sense.
    Why make every class the same?
    Raising floors and lower ceilings by zos standards has created an iron maiden.
    No matter how well you played,when the game is over,the king and pawn go back in the same box.
    Be careful what you ask for from zo$, you always get punished.
    Call me toxic,your the one being slowly poisoned by greed.
  • Minno
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    Mojmir wrote: »
    This is not balance, it's more pidgeon-holing.
    I get the 5 PC armor restriction, that makes sense.
    Why make every class the same?

    I think they liked designing the warden for CP instead of trying to make the legacy skills designed for soft caps they inherited from Sage's team work in CP.

    Both scary and interesting. Could be the beginning for providing a base template of abilities which spell crafting can start to enter the picture?
  • xaraan
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    baratron wrote: »
    From ESO Live today:

    The Warden has 3 clearly-defined class lines: one for each of the game's roles. ZOS want to gradually make all classes like this - so Siphoning will become the NB Healing line. With this in mind, ZOS changed Agony to Malevolent Offering. It uses your HP to heal allies – a heal which doesn't cost Magicka or Stamina. However once you started it, you couldn't shut it off and newer players were killing themselves. So now it has an upfront HP cost. You can't use it if you don't have enough health.

    Is anyone else worried about this?

    So as a templar, ZoS wants to take away the bread and butter of our DPS skill in shards, sweeps, and charge, just so I can spam Reflective Light and Jesus Beam everyone? It's already bad enough I have one-skill line dedicated to healing when I try to play something that isn't a healer. Or does ZoS plan on moving Sweeps and Charge Dawn's Wrath, so I can't access my Aedric Spear passives and create an entire skill line devoted to tanking even though Templars are unwanted as tanks?

    This will pretty much strangle what remains of build diversity since because we no longer can choose from 15 all purpose skills, we've confided to 5 that fit our role. And I'm pretty sure having only 4 DPS skills is a big factor why the warden's DPS is terrible. As it is, pretty much all the Wardens' I run into Cyrodiil have the same build and do the same thing because two thirds of the skills are specialized to do roles that players aren't trying to fulfill.

    It seems like ZoS wont be happy until they finally make it so a Dragonknight won;t be laughed at as a healer, but while doing so tear the guts out of the in-your-face archetype that many players who chose the class in the first place and thus put the nail in the coffin of what was the most enjoyable and best designed class at launch.

    It is a tremendous cost savings for them. They can make three skill lines, complete with morphs, one for each of the three roles. Then, all they have to do is copy them to all the classes, change the names, and come up with custom effects and animations (if they have the time).

    This would make more sense if they had perfected it with Warden. But they didn't. So they will just be changing stuff for the sake of a 'theme' instead of just doing basic fixes. So it will give them another "soft reboot" of the game at some point where they spend patches and patches trying to balance it before realizing once again, they don't know how and repeat again.
    NA • PC • AD • Characters (Argonian Tanks, Khajiit StamDD, Breton MagDD):
    NBs: Hist-Shadow: Xaraan (Master Crafter), Scoundrel: Xaraan-dar, Sun's Dusk Reaper: Xa-Raan (Vampire)
    Templars: Shadow Breaker: Xaraanosaur, Spirit Seeker: Xaraan-do, Sanctifier: Xåraan
    Dragon Knights: Undaunted: Xaraanosaurus, Huntmaster: Xaraan-da, Tin Soldier: Xãraan
    Sorcs: Storm Foe: Xaraanosorcus, Stormproof: Xaraan-ra, Master Historian: Xa'Raan
    Wardens: Shield of the North: Xaraanodon, Guardian of the Green: Xaraan-jo, Master Angler: Xäraan
    Necros: Boethia's Scythe: Xaraan-Vahat, Silencer: Xaraan-qa, Witch: Xaraana (Vampire)
    CP 1600+My HousevAAHM, vHRCHM, vSOHM, vDSA, vMoLHM, vMA(FC), vHoFHM, vAS+2, vCR+3, vSSHMx3, vKAHMx3
  • Ragnaroek93
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    Brrrofski wrote: »
    Who's using shuffle for dodge chance??

    Definitely not what I use it for.

    I've wanted this saying it for ages because the heavy armor meta is so boring. Wish they'd address heavy itself though.

    Like on a Stam character next patch in a small group/solo, you can either run medium and take insane damage and have bad healing plus lower health, run heavy and be snared forever or use forward momentum and lack a burst heal. Guess stamplar population will shoot up... Or an increased amount of stamblades which work fine in medium

    So it's fine for you that heavy armor stamina gets nerfed while heavy armor magicka builds aren't touched at all? I think that magicka builds will just roll over stamina with this change because they are already damn strong in the current meta (except magicka sorc - ironically the magicka class people complain the most about - simply because burst classes struggle in tank metas).
    baratron wrote: »
    Change to Siphoner passive in Champion System (used in PvP). This is to help with “super long fights where no one is running out of resources or fights”. Up to 25% restore, from 15% that it was previously. Helps to distinguish between high-damage burst builds and sustain builds.

    That's interesting. Would have probably prefered an adjustment to Battlespirit (more damage for everyone) and a rework for vampire undeath passive to shorten fights but this is worth a try actually, need to test that out. Actually a good thing that they want to shorten the duration which fights take these days.
    casparian wrote: »
    baratron wrote: »
    CHANGING ARMOR ACTIVES. You will now need 5 pieces of Light Armor to use Annulment, 5 Medium to use Evasion, 5 Heavy for Immovable. Currently anyone can use any of them. Now the Nightblade evasion ability is cool, because Tanks can wear Heavy Armor and use it.

    I'm very worried about this one. Will make nightblades the strongest heavy armor class (stamina) by far. I think heavy armor needs some more adjustments but I don't think that this is the right way. Will also destroy Tavas builds for example which is a very bad thing, nothing that we should be happy about.

    It will destroy Tava's builds for non-NB tanks. Nothing wrong with giving NBs a niche tankng advantage.

    Nor do I think it's fair to say that NBs will now be the strongest heavy armor class. They still can't do the Block+Fury+Blood Spawn+Wrath+Leap thing, for instance.

    To my mind, the real measure of the new 5-pieces requirement will be whether it gives stam builds a reason to go into Cyrodiil in 5 medium again.

    I dunno, the Fury Dk build isn't a thing on my server (stam Dk is considered rather weak there and I agree with that) while there are heavy armor stamnbs which are extremely strong and will be even stronger compared to other stam classes (tho I have to admit that these heavy armor stamnbs play dueling builds which aren't viable open world because no Cloak, gapcloser and Shadow Image so we shouldn't focus too much on that).
    Edited by Ragnaroek93 on September 29, 2017 11:26PM
  • STEVIL
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    cmetzger93 wrote: »
    I for one am super excited that they are wanting to make all classes able to fill each role!

    that is not what they said on ESO live. they said they were moving to warden-like each skill line distinct and implied each skill line as a given role theme.

    nut looking at the warden, do you believe they succeeded at this every role aspect?

    if so you might think its good to do this to everyone.

    but if you think they managed to get a class thats almost good enough at everything but not good enough at anything, you might not be so thrilled.

    Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
    YFMV Your Fun May Vary.

    First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
    "The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."

  • Baconlad
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    Yus. No more super passive mitigating heavy armor shuffle dks!!! Also makes the wings warden skill look better
  • baratron
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    STEVIL wrote: »
    As for this "The Warden has 3 clearly-defined class lines: one for each of the game's roles. ZOS want to gradually make all classes like this - " when i heard that live i said out loud "oh no please not."

    That way lies sameness.

    And also, that immediately steps on one of the warden's differences... that was "the warden sctick" to me.

    I dunno. I kinda like this idea. Too many new players who have come from less flexible MMOs assume that the Dragonknight is for Tanking and the Templar is for Healing, and no other way of doing things is possible.

    I'm open-minded to the change at least until I have a better idea of what they're planning. Then I'll decide if it sounds stupid or not.
    Guildmaster of the UESP Guild on the North American PC/Mac Server 810+ CP
    Martin Draconis - Imperial Sorceror Healer (Aldmeri Dominion) level 50
    Alix de Feu - Breton Templar Healer (Daggerfall Covenant) level 50
    Arzhela Petit - Breton Dragonknight Healer (Daggerfall Covenant) level 50
    Brings-His-Own-Forest - Argonian Warden Healer (Aldmeri Dominion) level 50
    Verandis Bloodraven - Altmer Nightblade Healer & clone of Count Verandis Ravenwatch (Aldmeri Dominion) level 50
    Bjornolfr Steel-Shaper - Nord Dragonknight Crafter & Not-Much-Damage Dealer (Ebonheart Pact) level 50
    Hrodulf Bearpaw - Nord Warden Bear Friend & identical twin of Bjornolfr (Aldmeri Dominion) level 50
    Gethin Oakrun - Bosmer Nightblade Thief & terrible Tank (Ebonheart Pact) level 50
  • driosketch
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    Is anyone else worried about this?
    I am.

    ZOS's fetish for symmetry tends to kill build creativity, e.g frost mage, holy knight, ect., even as it opens up options, e.g. magicika blocking, physical damage ult, ect. For instance:
    Minno wrote: »
    Sorcs:
    Daedric Summoning– Tank
    Dark Magic – Heals (more of a support)
    Storm Calling – DPS

    I have a prototype sorc healer I started when ZOS started giving sorc more heal options. More options are good. So now there is a serviceable burst heal in the deadric line, as well as tanking buff and dps assist. Yet you'll lose tools for two of those as you try to shoehorn each skill line into a specific role. So each class opens up, but the thinking goes away. Want to be a tank, look for your class's tank line, done.

    Of course, even though you have stam/mag DPS and stam/mag/hybrid tanks, there's still not a lot of strong options for a stamina healer. Mark my words, one day you will see Honor the Dead as a stamina morph.
    Main: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
    ●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●
  • Brrrofski
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    Brrrofski wrote: »
    Who's using shuffle for dodge chance??

    Definitely not what I use it for.

    I've wanted this saying it for ages because the heavy armor meta is so boring. Wish they'd address heavy itself though.

    Like on a Stam character next patch in a small group/solo, you can either run medium and take insane damage and have bad healing plus lower health, run heavy and be snared forever or use forward momentum and lack a burst heal. Guess stamplar population will shoot up... Or an increased amount of stamblades which work fine in medium

    So it's fine for you that heavy armor stamina gets nerfed while heavy armor magicka builds aren't touched at all? I think that magicka builds will just roll over stamina with this change because they are already damn strong in the current meta (except magicka sorc - ironically the magicka class people complain the most about - simply because burst classes struggle in tank metas).
    baratron wrote: »
    Change to Siphoner passive in Champion System (used in PvP). This is to help with “super long fights where no one is running out of resources or fights”. Up to 25% restore, from 15% that it was previously. Helps to distinguish between high-damage burst builds and sustain builds.

    That's interesting. Would have probably prefered an adjustment to Battlespirit (more damage for everyone) and a rework for vampire undeath passive to shorten fights but this is worth a try actually, need to test that out. Actually a good thing that they want to shorten the duration which fights take these days.
    casparian wrote: »
    baratron wrote: »
    CHANGING ARMOR ACTIVES. You will now need 5 pieces of Light Armor to use Annulment, 5 Medium to use Evasion, 5 Heavy for Immovable. Currently anyone can use any of them. Now the Nightblade evasion ability is cool, because Tanks can wear Heavy Armor and use it.

    I'm very worried about this one. Will make nightblades the strongest heavy armor class (stamina) by far. I think heavy armor needs some more adjustments but I don't think that this is the right way. Will also destroy Tavas builds for example which is a very bad thing, nothing that we should be happy about.

    It will destroy Tava's builds for non-NB tanks. Nothing wrong with giving NBs a niche tankng advantage.

    Nor do I think it's fair to say that NBs will now be the strongest heavy armor class. They still can't do the Block+Fury+Blood Spawn+Wrath+Leap thing, for instance.

    To my mind, the real measure of the new 5-pieces requirement will be whether it gives stam builds a reason to go into Cyrodiil in 5 medium again.

    I dunno, the Fury Dk build isn't a thing on my server (stam Dk is considered rather weak there and I agree with that) while there are heavy armor stamnbs which are extremely strong and will be even stronger compared to other stam classes (tho I have to admit that these heavy armor stamnbs play dueling builds which aren't viable open world because no Cloak, gapcloser and Shadow Image so we shouldn't focus too much on that).

    Not at all, that's my point. I hate the heavy armor meta, but I want them to address heavy armor itself. This kills heavy on Stam. I'd rather kill heavy in PvP in general.

    You wanna tank, cool. But you shouldn't be able to do crazy damage too.

    But then stamblade and mag sorc will just tear everyone apart. That's the problem when heavy armor goes.
    Xbox One EU
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