Wake up people ! Transmutaion is not for lazy scrubs.

STEVIL · September 2017

puffytheslayer wrote: »

sorry @stevil

once again having tremendous difficulty understanding what your on about

its as if you write a sentance, and then run each word through a thesaurus app in a desperate attempt to make yourself sound inteligent but in reality no one ever understand what the *** your talking about

this is problay why i never have the faintest idea what yourt talking about, so for the sake of the forum im going to go ahead and block you know

bye!

it may seem to you that no one understands what i am talking about, but that is not close to true.

Artis · September 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

@STEVIL

If you answer - answer to everything.

So far your logic means that I'm left out of motifs and costumes. Am I? Or is it my choice what to do and what not to do?

1 - no

2 - if you feel ZOS should include motifs and costumes in more content that you prefer to run, you should start a thread. its not quite the same thing as not including the fuel for a sub-system in an entire core block of content, the largest block of tracked content in fact, even though that sub-system applies directly to the rewards in that content. but hey, if you see the shortfall, bring it up. thats what i am doing. i might even agree.

1 - absolutely yes, that's called manners.
2 - maybe I will. First I want to know if you agree. And no, in this case there is no difference. Vouchers are fuel to another core block of content and without motifs I'm locked out of it.
3 - have you heard? Now they locked out RPers and socializers from crown crates. They only get them if they stop doing what they enjoy and kill a monster per day to be eligible to get those crown crates. How cruel is that?

Mondini · September 2017

People forgetting it takes 5 minutes to run vfg1.

STEVIL · September 2017

Mondini wrote: »

People forgetting it takes 5 minutes to run vfg1.

i agree...hard to imagine so many seeming to want to claim there is some threshold of difficulty and worthy reward involved when vet dungeons give rewards thru pledges etc.

i have said so repeatedly there is not a big difference there so that excuse for why to leave longer questing content out of the crystals makes no sense to me. its not consistent with the data provided.

though not a 5m run for me but point taken

Juhasow · September 2017

Mondini wrote: »

People forgetting it takes 5 minutes to run vfg1.

People forgetting that just running vet dung will only have a chance to give You crystal and we know what that means...

STEVIL · September 2017

Artis wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

@STEVIL

If you answer - answer to everything.

So far your logic means that I'm left out of motifs and costumes. Am I? Or is it my choice what to do and what not to do?

1 - no

2 - if you feel ZOS should include motifs and costumes in more content that you prefer to run, you should start a thread. its not quite the same thing as not including the fuel for a sub-system in an entire core block of content, the largest block of tracked content in fact, even though that sub-system applies directly to the rewards in that content. but hey, if you see the shortfall, bring it up. thats what i am doing. i might even agree.

1 - absolutely yes, that's called manners.
2 - maybe I will. First I want to know if you agree. And no, in this case there is no difference. Vouchers are fuel to another core block of content and without motifs I'm locked out of it.
3 - have you heard? Now they locked out RPers and socializers from crown crates. They only get them if they stop doing what they enjoy and kill a monster per day to be eligible to get those crown crates. How cruel is that?

1 - Nope... dont have to answer any unlimited number of points if only one or two are ones i care about. just like when i go out for supper i dont insult the cook by only ordering one or two items instead of the whole menu.

2a - I think you might be confused or perhaps not. Like i said, you should start a thread and go for it. Whether or not i agree with your proposal will depend on its merits and details. That is why i have made an effort to explain often exactly what questing content i feel should be included - the main "caldwell" completions per zone, the DLC/Chapter zone main questlines and the main story quest and perhaps the mage/fighter lines to a total of i think about 22ish stones for the whol many many hours lot. i would object myself to any proposal which added a crystal to every single overland quest and daily because that would be out of kilter with the drop rates established for the other content.
2b - Actually i have been doing the voucher thing since it came out quite a bit. Easily have gained and turned in thousands by now. have 800ish on tap even as i type this, more as i finish my dailies later today. fact is the majority of mine have not come from any motif related gains at all. The consumables don't require motifs. So, not the same since your lack of motifs in whatever content you feel should be added to does not prevent you from getting that fuel for vouchers.

3a - That is perfectly in keeping with their typical patterns. Almost every special event is targetted for a limited time at one section of addec content or player base. they recently did this PVP thingy, before that was it an orsinium? Its not unco0mmon at all for short term seasonal or anniversary events to kick in. In this case, like the last crown crate season, its a brief preview teaser sort of thing.

3b - maybe you missed it but in a few more days those crates will be open to anybody for crowns. So far that does not seem to be the case with their plans for crystals. or do you know different and thats why you thought it related? If ZOS decides to let the current list get crystals for three days before the main quest content does, but then the rest of it kicks in, i would be fine with that. Would not understand it but hey i could chalk it up as a promotion.

Again, so far no sensible reason for why this large block of content should be excluded from the new susb-system fuel while the new sub-system can be used on the very drops from this content.

Do you have a case for "harm" that would be done is this identified content got crystals at the rates described?
Is your objection more akin to the "nothing against questing content but.." posturing we have seen in others? Or is there another reason you feel this block of content ought not to be included at all?

Artis · September 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

@STEVIL

If you answer - answer to everything.

So far your logic means that I'm left out of motifs and costumes. Am I? Or is it my choice what to do and what not to do?

1 - no

2 - if you feel ZOS should include motifs and costumes in more content that you prefer to run, you should start a thread. its not quite the same thing as not including the fuel for a sub-system in an entire core block of content, the largest block of tracked content in fact, even though that sub-system applies directly to the rewards in that content. but hey, if you see the shortfall, bring it up. thats what i am doing. i might even agree.

1 - absolutely yes, that's called manners.
2 - maybe I will. First I want to know if you agree. And no, in this case there is no difference. Vouchers are fuel to another core block of content and without motifs I'm locked out of it.
3 - have you heard? Now they locked out RPers and socializers from crown crates. They only get them if they stop doing what they enjoy and kill a monster per day to be eligible to get those crown crates. How cruel is that?

1 - Nope... dont have to answer any unlimited number of points if only one or two are ones i care about. just like when i go out for supper i dont insult the cook by only ordering one or two items instead of the whole menu.

2a - I think you might be confused or perhaps not. Like i said, you should start a thread and go for it. Whether or not i agree with your proposal will depend on its merits and details. That is why i have made an effort to explain often exactly what questing content i feel should be included - the main "caldwell" completions per zone, the DLC/Chapter zone main questlines and the main story quest and perhaps the mage/fighter lines to a total of i think about 22ish stones for the whol many many hours lot. i would object myself to any proposal which added a crystal to every single overland quest and daily because that would be out of kilter with the drop rates established for the other content.
2b - Actually i have been doing the voucher thing since it came out quite a bit. Easily have gained and turned in thousands by now. have 800ish on tap even as i type this, more as i finish my dailies later today. fact is the majority of mine have not come from any motif related gains at all. The consumables don't require motifs. So, not the same since your lack of motifs in whatever content you feel should be added to does not prevent you from getting that fuel for vouchers.

3a - That is perfectly in keeping with their typical patterns. Almost every special event is targetted for a limited time at one section of addec content or player base. they recently did this PVP thingy, before that was it an orsinium? Its not unco0mmon at all for short term seasonal or anniversary events to kick in. In this case, like the last crown crate season, its a brief preview teaser sort of thing.

3b - maybe you missed it but in a few more days those crates will be open to anybody for crowns. So far that does not seem to be the case with their plans for crystals. or do you know different and thats why you thought it related? If ZOS decides to let the current list get crystals for three days before the main quest content does, but then the rest of it kicks in, i would be fine with that. Would not understand it but hey i could chalk it up as a promotion.

Again, so far no sensible reason for why this large block of content should be excluded from the new susb-system fuel while the new sub-system can be used on the very drops from this content.

Do you have a case for "harm" that would be done is this identified content got crystals at the rates described?
Is your objection more akin to the "nothing against questing content but.." posturing we have seen in others? Or is there another reason you feel this block of content ought not to be included at all?

1 yeah no, this is not a menu, those points are multiple because they address everything you said. If you get answers to all your points but don't answer all points yourself - then you're just an ***. Gotta either answer or admit you have nothing to say explicitly, since that's how it's looking anyway.

2a blahblahblah. Do you agree or not? Yes or no?
2b Good for you. I can't get them without stopping doing my content to level craft, do writs, do master writs if I got any. The consumable require recipes learned. And either way, consumables don't give more than 6-10 vouchers, usually 2. That's a bad way of getting vouchers - doing just consumables. Not the way I like. Kinda like golding items is not the way you like to get the traits you need. And I would need to stop what I'm doing to do level consumable crafting lines anyway. Am I locked out or not?

3a exactly. They encourage people to play content they think people should be playing more. Want crystals? Play content that gives crystals.
3b so I need to stop doing content that I like and go put money on my account, come back, go to the web-site, buy crowns? No, sounds like locked out for me according to your logic.

Yes, there is harm. That means people can get them in other ways other than doing content ZOS thinks people should be doing. It's better for the health of the game if there's enough people wanting to do group dungeons and trials, if there's enough people capable of completing veteran maelstrom arena, if there's more people in Cyrodiil. Giving crystals for quests means a lot of people would refuse to get out of their comfort zone and keep doing quests, when zos wants to introduce them to other content + it's better for everyone else.

Besides, I will keep arguing until you stop saying illogical things like that you are locked out because you need to stop doing content you're doing.

STEVIL · September 2017

@Artis

2a as stated depends on details. I don't buy pigs in pokes and don't expect others to. Perhaps you do.

2b actually while the per writ rate is lower the drop rates makes up for it for enchant and esp alchemy. Something experience outside your trials would tell you. But, again, lets be clear. Master rits and writ vouchers are crafting content which drop rewards related to that content. You get into that content by crafting and its rewards are appropriate and the sub-system is as well.

Unlike the new re-trait sub-system where, in its initial week of pts, excludes the bulk of the main pcs content that drops sets with traits from the fuel sources for adjusting those traits?

This contradict the statements by sod about how you were intended to get the crystal for doing the content you were already doing.

They did not setup some new unique grind, just added the fuel to the existing content and they should have included the main bulk of the questing as well.

3a and as a temporary promotion that is fine. Its different for a major subsystem long term addition.you get that right? The difference between temp promo and permanent system? Right... Not the same?

3b again, temporary vs long term. After the promo thing go back to normal and everyone has same access to crown crates regardless of content played. That is to say, no content played provides crown crates outside of the promo.

That is unlike the current test scheme for the re-trait sub-system where it would have some content that drops rewards it can impact provides new crystals for just play thru of the same content one was doing but excludes a larger body of questing content that also drops items as rewards that the sub-system would benefit. That exclusion is wrong, in the viewpoint of myself and others. So we seek a change in this feedback period.

As for your harm...

You first example of its wrong cuz its not what they built is circular. Its built based on decision. That it was built to that spec does not validate the spec. What is being questioned is the spec, the decision and its merits.

The second part about group content relies on the elitist notion that the game is objectively superior if certain content is run over others. Particularly the self-proclaimed by its advocates elite content. I submit an opposite viewpoint, that the game's health is served as well or better by a constant influx of new players who do play thru the large bulk of content to a significant degree and by players playing content at every level, not just more and more elite.

Extrapolate forward a bit and you can see that without a strong growing body of players in the casual content new players would not find the game as inviting.

More to the point, it seems that ZOS usually agrees because they tend to add new content for all their various levels of play.

This time though, their initial week one pts has erred in,leaving out such a major block of content in their new sub-system.

But also your view that the new subsystem is somehow meant to draw players to the non-main-quest content runs afoul of two arguments put forth by others or by even you perhaps -that the casuals won't need or benefit from the crystal grind and the ZOS admitted statement that crystal drops are intended for content you are already running.

Anyway as to your end statement, my intentions and position is clearly stated now multiple times. If you are just going to throw out whatever to keep a fight going thinking you will badger me into not stating my views or arguing for change during feedback periods in the feedback forums, that seems to be more of a suppress discussion than conduct discussion.

You don't have to agree with my position or think it logical, but dedicating yourself to stopping me from voicing views you don't like is maybe not conduct in the best interest of feedback on the pts forum?

To be clear this is your comment I find disturbing...

"Besides, I will keep arguing until you stop saying illogical things like that you are locked out because you need to stop doing content you're doing."

I submit its not your place to "stop" anyone else from posting their ideas and viewpoint even if you don't agree with them. The folks who are tasked with stopping posts they feel should not be made are the moderators.

We the posters are not supposed to be dedicating ourselves to stopping others from posting, even if we disagree.

You don't have to agree with me on which content should or shouldn't be locked out of the crystals obtained as you play the content you were already doing, but to try and make me stop posting goes a bit beyond discussion.

To me at least.

Ymmv

exeeter702 · September 2017

@STEVIL you should really just stop man. The transmutation system is in place to alleviate grind times for those that have bad luck with rng. ZoS is clearly saying here "hey you are having bad luck with that sharpended bsw inferno staff, well keep at the content you are already doing and there will be a measurable light at the end of the tunnel".

It is not a substitute for farming ideal traits. It has no business being tied to questing. But lets have it your way for a second. You want main quest lines to reward trans crystals as a one time deal? Then what? Lets say upon launch they retroactively mail everyone a set amount based on their quest achievments. And you claiming to be a questing hero, the savior of tamriel, slayer of molag bal, id imagine you are already done with it. So zos kindly supplies you with a small stipend so you can retrait your beloved harpy shirt and random sheild.

Then what? Is that seriously your entire angle here? If so, it is laughable and nonsensical. If you however think zos should be more generous with the crystals via "quest content", then you have no business holding a discussion on the subject. Because im telling you right now, if you create an environment where such a valuable resource is obtainable with reletive ease, you will completely undermine the integrity of the game in which players challenging the harder content are not adequately rewarded or are undervalued, which leads to a lack of motivation. Or you trivialize it entirely because players WILL take the path of least resistence for the best yield.

Im not sure in what world you feel time is equitable to effort or that questing is measurable in the same way that end game pve and pvp are, but inbthis world, in this game, that is absolutely not the case. Proper incentive needs to be at the top of the ladder.

In all of your ridiculous rants in this thread (ive read them all) you are basically asking for a charity amount of crystals handed out because anyone that claims they are of the "questing community" is either not at level cap / cp 160 which means there is no need for crystals (if you have the audacity to suggest otherwise.....) OR they are already max level and at least 160cp and have already done all the damn quests and should be given the amount retroactively.

Zos would have to right? How on earth could they get off saying "we are going to add crystals to cadwells series / main quest lines as rewards, but only if you havent done them yet, so all you veteran players who grinded out gold and silver tough ***."

This is a long term system to SUPPLEMENT those that are in the trenches everyday trying to squeeze out that perfect roll on a peice or 2 of gear in end game content so they can have a measurable end goal where it doesnt feel so hopeless. It is fundamentally not for you and those that share your logic or priorities in this game and thus ZOS is placing the system exactly where it belongs and no where else.

Deal with it. Hell, if i had the power i would mail you 80 crystals just to end this thread.

STEVIL · September 2017

exeeter702 wrote: »

@STEVIL you should really just stop man. The transmutation system is in place to alleviate grind times for those that have bad luck with rng. ZoS is clearly saying here "hey you are having bad luck with that sharpended bsw inferno staff, well keep at the content you are already doing and there will be a measurable light at the end of the tunnel".

It is not a substitute for farming ideal traits. It has no business being tied to questing. But lets have it your way for a second. You want main quest lines to reward trans crystals as a one time deal? Then what? Lets say upon launch they retroactively mail everyone a set amount based on their quest achievments. And you claiming to be a questing hero, the savior of tamriel, slayer of molag bal, id imagine you are already done with it. So zos kindly supplies you with a small stipend so you can retrait your beloved harpy shirt and random sheild.

Then what? Is that seriously your entire angle here? If so, it is laughable and nonsensical. If you however think zos should be more generous with the crystals via "quest content", then you have no business holding a discussion on the subject. Because im telling you right now, if you create an environment where such a valuable resource is obtainable with reletive ease, you will completely undermine the integrity of the game in which players challenging the harder content are not adequately rewarded or are undervalued, which leads to a lack of motivation. Or you trivialize it entirely because players WILL take the path of least resistence for the best yield.

Im not sure in what world you feel time is equitable to effort or that questing is measurable in the same way that end game pve and pvp are, but inbthis world, in this game, that is absolutely not the case. Proper incentive needs to be at the top of the ladder.

In all of your ridiculous rants in this thread (ive read them all) you are basically asking for a charity amount of crystals handed out because anyone that claims they are of the "questing community" is either not at level cap / cp 160 which means there is no need for crystals (if you have the audacity to suggest otherwise.....) OR they are already max level and at least 160cp and have already done all the damn quests and should be given the amount retroactively.

Zos would have to right? How on earth could they get off saying "we are going to add crystals to cadwells series / main quest lines as rewards, but only if you havent done them yet, so all you veteran players who grinded out gold and silver tough ***."

This is a long term system to SUPPLEMENT those that are in the trenches everyday trying to squeeze out that perfect roll on a peice or 2 of gear in end game content so they can have a measurable end goal where it doesnt feel so hopeless. It is fundamentally not for you and those that share your logic or priorities in this game and thus ZOS is placing the system exactly where it belongs and no where else.

Deal with it. Hell, if i had the power i would mail you 80 crystals just to end this thread.

first paragraph...

i respectively say No to your request i stop posting. As for your view of how limited the transmute syatem is supposed to be let me counter with a fact, not an, opinion, i know, hard to imagine...FACT vs feeling...
FACT - the new transmute crystal sub-system works on BOE gear, not just BOP high end OMG worthy content rewards.

Really, it does. try it. you'll see.

So, it can be used to offset the "bad luck grind for trait" for overland BoE as well.

had they made it BoP only, that would be a different story because the questing content locked out in the first pass at this sub-system would not be dropping items that could be improved by it.

But guess what, ZOS decided it was worthwile to allow re-traiting of BoE gear and then for some reason excluded a huge core block of the content that drops BoE gear.

that is a definite mismatch and that also belies the oft-dreamed up illusion that this sub-system is just for "the worthy" content that drops BoP.

second paragraph

Not a substitue for farming ideal traits - yup agree. never proposed anything that said it should.
Not asking for free retroactive for questing anymore than i am asking them to retroactively reward folks for prior runs thru maelstrom of pledges. i doubt the have the data to do that for the pledges and arenas so it would be a bad idea to do it for the quests.

third paragraph

if by that you mean retroactive shipments, nope. never asked for it. never will.
as for the blah blah end of the world if questing easy etc... again i dont think anybody here is claiming running a vet pledge with four folks is some amazing threshold. a good number have posted to this fact, often using it to seem to disagree with me. Your doom-n-gloom integrity of the high end blah blah is your opinion and you are entitled to it but it runs afoul of ZOS' own comment where they said they intended crystals to be obtained by running the content you were already running, including normal dungeons and simple vet pledges. this is not some intent to glorify the content. As for your opinion on which other folks have a right to discuss what they want or not, that is not your decision. its amazing that you think you are entitled to make that judgement.

fourth paragraph

We get it. We get it. Some people think they are superior and their content is superior and they deserve more and more rights and deserve to be able to discuss things and so on and so on and so on and so on. We get it. Your "content privilege" is showing in full bloom. good to see that flag flown with such pride.

fifth graph

you are wrong. not seeking retroactive but ZOS has done that before with mementos for achievments that are tracked. Since i dont think they have tracking for runs thru VMA and such it would not be right to do it retro for one type of content.
As for your characterizations of the other players, you have a very limited viewpoint i am afraid. Your not listing a complete set. But thats fine. keep your illusions.

sixth graph

Well they can do it just like they can say "your maelstrom runs today drop crystals but the 100 prior ones, tough luck.
Right?
Alternatively, they could take the new Craglorn approach and reset of offer a reset to allow questers to re-run the old questlines if they want. You do remember that right? When craglorn got redid, it reset the quests to various degress.
but again, while you might want to imagine the "STEVIl secret plan" for retro-drops of crystals, its not something i am seeking.
maybe you would be better off worrying about what i am asking about instead of making up stuff i am not asking about to worry over?

last graph

"in the trenches"? My lord, we are hitting a keyboard or controller and blowing up pixels, not sitting in a mud and filth hole trying to keep ouractual live asses alive. maybe some folks should really take a breather and maybe asses perspectives about how "important" blowing up pixels is and what actual "effort" is. if you think four man groups taking on vet dungeon pledges and getting crystals is some sign of valiant heroic effort or striving to stave off hopelessness, I have no words for you that will make a difference.

keep your trench-crystals...they apparently matter a whole lot more to you than they would to me. besides i prefer mine to come from running content, not as gifts.

Aeslief · September 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

sure, no problem, lets play along... there is a harpy feather shirt as a quest reward named uniquely that comes only in ornate. there is a set shield in rift as a quest reward that only comes in impen.

So, assuming you want to transmute this harpy shirt to say, divines, for example, you are asking to create an item that doesn't currently exist in the game, correct?

How many times did you have to run the quest before you got your shirt? How many times do you think is fair to expect to run it before you get your shirt to drop?

Leaving Stevil's harpy shirt aside, as a player who only doing non-vet content at this time, I just don't see this as a worthy vs. unworthy conflict. Transmute is for BoP gear. Gear that already exists in the game. Gear you cannot get any other way than running the content it drops from. Gear you will finally be guaranteed to receive once you have earned it after X number of unlucky runs.

I didn't assume that Gina's "content you are already running" comment addressed the entire playerbase or else I would expect to get crystals from housing and fishing, which I don't. Instead I concluded she was addressing the players for whom the feature is intended - players running vet content.

I am not a raider in this game, although I like to think I could be one day, if I choose to. But until I am I can already get everything I need to play from the content I am already playing.

I would suggest that ZoS resolves this debate by making transmute crystals applicable only to BoP gear. While I'm happy to see that one special drop go from 'unattainable' to 'attainable,' I don't think it would be good for the game for ideal overland drops go from 'easy' to 'even easier' to obtain.

STEVIL · September 2017

Aeslief wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

sure, no problem, lets play along... there is a harpy feather shirt as a quest reward named uniquely that comes only in ornate. there is a set shield in rift as a quest reward that only comes in impen.

So, assuming you want to transmute this harpy shirt to say, divines, for example, you are asking to create an item that doesn't currently exist in the game, correct?

How many times did you have to run the quest before you got your shirt? How many times do you think is fair to expect to run it before you get your shirt to drop?

Leaving Stevil's harpy shirt aside, as a player who only doing non-vet content at this time, I just don't see this as a worthy vs. unworthy conflict. Transmute is for BoP gear. Gear that already exists in the game. Gear you cannot get any other way than running the content it drops from. Gear you will finally be guaranteed to receive once you have earned it after X number of unlucky runs.

I didn't assume that Gina's "content you are already running" comment addressed the entire playerbase or else I would expect to get crystals from housing and fishing, which I don't. Instead I concluded she was addressing the players for whom the feature is intended - players running vet content.

I am not a raider in this game, although I like to think I could be one day, if I choose to. But until I am I can already get everything I need to play from the content I am already playing.

I would suggest that ZoS resolves this debate by making transmute crystals applicable only to BoP gear. While I'm happy to see that one special drop go from 'unattainable' to 'attainable,' I don't think it would be good for the game for ideal overland drops go from 'easy' to 'even easier' to obtain.

@Aeslief says "Transmute is for BoP gear. "

It is not according to the patch as it stands now.

It works on both.

if it is changed to BoP only, that would be a different thing.

Also was said " Instead I concluded she was addressing the players for whom the feature is intended - players running vet content."

and again, just plain wrong conclusion

ZOS_Gina said the crystals are also available to potentially drop from "Final bosses from Normal and Veteran dungeons"

So not just veteran content.

Also this was asked.

"How many times did you have to run the quest before you got your shirt? How many times do you think is fair to expect to run it before you get your shirt to drop?"

The transmute system has no effect on the item drop rates. it only affects traits. there are any number of overland item drops that can be acquired or bought and any of them can be converted by the crystals gathered by running whatever content drops it.

So, again, no different than it works for folks running content in trials and dungeons. if they want to use those crystals to go convert a set drop from overland, they can and they have the same known quest rewards that i have.

So, nothing special. the system would let you go get you a harpy feather shirt in divine just like i can. One quest, one drop.

if you have a problem with the grind for boP gear itself, you should take that up with the devs. But that is not a transmute sub-system issue.

sevomd69 · September 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

puffytheslayer wrote: »

sorry @stevil

once again having tremendous difficulty understanding what your on about

its as if you write a sentance, and then run each word through a thesaurus app in a desperate attempt to make yourself sound inteligent but in reality no one ever understand what the *** your talking about

this is problay why i never have the faintest idea what yourt talking about, so for the sake of the forum im going to go ahead and block you know

bye!

it may seem to you that no one understands what i am talking about, but that is not close to true.

I don't understand what you're talking about...fwiw...

exeeter702 · September 2017

sevomd69 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

puffytheslayer wrote: »

sorry @stevil

once again having tremendous difficulty understanding what your on about

its as if you write a sentance, and then run each word through a thesaurus app in a desperate attempt to make yourself sound inteligent but in reality no one ever understand what the *** your talking about

this is problay why i never have the faintest idea what yourt talking about, so for the sake of the forum im going to go ahead and block you know

bye!

it may seem to you that no one understands what i am talking about, but that is not close to true.

I don't understand what you're talking about...fwiw...

You and me both

STEVIL · September 2017

Hilarious.

Which words in the following can I help you with then?

I think the main zone quest lines completion, dlc main zones quest completions and the main core story quest completion should drop one crystal each and be included in the obtain crystals in content you are already running.

That's what I am talking about and it seems pretty clear to **understand** even if one disagrees with it, at least to some.

Artis · September 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

@Artis

2a as stated depends on details. I don't buy pigs in pokes and don't expect others to. Perhaps you do.

2b actually while the per writ rate is lower the drop rates makes up for it for enchant and esp alchemy. Something experience outside your trials would tell you. But, again, lets be clear. Master rits and writ vouchers are crafting content which drop rewards related to that content. You get into that content by crafting and its rewards are appropriate and the sub-system is as well.

Unlike the new re-trait sub-system where, in its initial week of pts, excludes the bulk of the main pcs content that drops sets with traits from the fuel sources for adjusting those traits?

This contradict the statements by sod about how you were intended to get the crystal for doing the content you were already doing.

They did not setup some new unique grind, just added the fuel to the existing content and they should have included the main bulk of the questing as well.

3a and as a temporary promotion that is fine. Its different for a major subsystem long term addition.you get that right? The difference between temp promo and permanent system? Right... Not the same?

3b again, temporary vs long term. After the promo thing go back to normal and everyone has same access to crown crates regardless of content played. That is to say, no content played provides crown crates outside of the promo.

That is unlike the current test scheme for the re-trait sub-system where it would have some content that drops rewards it can impact provides new crystals for just play thru of the same content one was doing but excludes a larger body of questing content that also drops items as rewards that the sub-system would benefit. That exclusion is wrong, in the viewpoint of myself and others. So we seek a change in this feedback period.

As for your harm...

You first example of its wrong cuz its not what they built is circular. Its built based on decision. That it was built to that spec does not validate the spec. What is being questioned is the spec, the decision and its merits.

The second part about group content relies on the elitist notion that the game is objectively superior if certain content is run over others. Particularly the self-proclaimed by its advocates elite content. I submit an opposite viewpoint, that the game's health is served as well or better by a constant influx of new players who do play thru the large bulk of content to a significant degree and by players playing content at every level, not just more and more elite.

Extrapolate forward a bit and you can see that without a strong growing body of players in the casual content new players would not find the game as inviting.

More to the point, it seems that ZOS usually agrees because they tend to add new content for all their various levels of play.

This time though, their initial week one pts has erred in,leaving out such a major block of content in their new sub-system.

But also your view that the new subsystem is somehow meant to draw players to the non-main-quest content runs afoul of two arguments put forth by others or by even you perhaps -that the casuals won't need or benefit from the crystal grind and the ZOS admitted statement that crystal drops are intended for content you are already running.

Anyway as to your end statement, my intentions and position is clearly stated now multiple times. If you are just going to throw out whatever to keep a fight going thinking you will badger me into not stating my views or arguing for change during feedback periods in the feedback forums, that seems to be more of a suppress discussion than conduct discussion.

You don't have to agree with my position or think it logical, but dedicating yourself to stopping me from voicing views you don't like is maybe not conduct in the best interest of feedback on the pts forum?

To be clear this is your comment I find disturbing...

"Besides, I will keep arguing until you stop saying illogical things like that you are locked out because you need to stop doing content you're doing."

I submit its not your place to "stop" anyone else from posting their ideas and viewpoint even if you don't agree with them. The folks who are tasked with stopping posts they feel should not be made are the moderators.

We the posters are not supposed to be dedicating ourselves to stopping others from posting, even if we disagree.

You don't have to agree with me on which content should or shouldn't be locked out of the crystals obtained as you play the content you were already doing, but to try and make me stop posting goes a bit beyond discussion.

To me at least.

Ymmv

2a yes or no.
2b false, enchanting and alchemy with lots of recipes learnt and all plants researched don't give me ANYWHERE close to the amount of vouchers I get from other writs. And no, they don't drop rewards related to that content only. They drop vouchers which can be spent on rewards related to multiple other contents: mats/recipe for the EXP drink, mats and recipes for target dummies that are used for end-game pve, and well anything else can be sold for gold which is used for potions etc. Oh there are other ways to get gold? Well, there are other ways to get BoE gear in the trait you want.

And no, as I showed before, I DON'T get crystals for content I'm doing. Only 1 crystal per week. You can do 1 normal pledge per week too - that will take you much less than my 3-4 hour raiding night.

3a no, that was never the case in any game I played. In WoW they added badges (different types too) that you could trade for gear. In ESO they added keys for undaunted pledges, and that's not temporary. There is no such difference. Or rather such difference is not needed, because they want people to ALWAYS be playing that content. Because it's an MMO. Where new players come constantly, where some old players want to level alts etc. Nothing shocking happened. Are you sure that MMOs are for you though? You certainly want them to work in the best possible way for you instead if everyone.

3b and once again irrelevant. Even worse. It's temporary. So I can't even change my mind later, unlike you and crystals. If I don't stop doing my content - I WILL miss out on crates.

No, my argument doesn't relate on superiority of any content. It is based on facts. People need someone to run dungeons with. Period. That's it. When I create alts I want to be able to run pledges to level undaunted. And I want to do it with guildies, not random. And for that to happen, they need to have incentive.

Now the fact that casuals won't benefit from the system doesn't change anything at all. This thread is a bright example: we have a casual saying he's entitled to have those crystals without having to put effort and changing the content he's playing.

And no, I'm not going to stop you. It's obviously not my place to. But I will keep calling you out until you stop yourself or I get bored. Or there's a thread with every more entitlement. Or until you admit that then everyone is locked out of rewards of content that they are not doing. In that case at least your position will be consistent.

STEVIL wrote: »

i respectively say No to your request i stop posting. As for your view of how limited the transmute syatem is supposed to be let me counter with a fact, not an, opinion, i know, hard to imagine...FACT vs feeling...
FACT - the new transmute crystal sub-system works on BOE gear, not just BOP high end OMG worthy content rewards.

Really, it does. try it. you'll see.

So, it can be used to offset the "bad luck grind for trait" for overland BoE as well.

Yeah, no. Gold can be used to offset the bad luck for BoE gear. NOTHING else but crystals can be used to offset that luck for BoP gear. In fact, YOU always had privilege and options people who are after BoP gear never had. And now FINALLY THEY ARE GIVEN the option YOU ALWAYS HAD AND WILL STILL HAVE.

STEVIL wrote: »

had they made it BoP only, that would be a different story because the questing content locked out in the first pass at this sub-system would not be dropping items that could be improved by it.

But guess what, ZOS decided it was worthwile to allow re-traiting of BoE gear and then for some reason excluded a huge core block of the content that drops BoE gear.

that is a definite mismatch and that also belies the oft-dreamed up illusion that this sub-system is just for "the worthy" content that drops BoP.

Yeah why wouldn't they allow it? It's easier to just allow to retrait everything so that the system is consistent than code permissions for different types of gear. A definite mismatch would've happened if only BoP gear would be allowed to be retraited. Not to mention that BoE gear can be bound, you know, after you equip it, but you still want to retrait it, so why not.

STEVIL wrote: »

Not asking for free retroactive for questing anymore than i am asking them to retroactively reward folks for prior runs thru maelstrom of pledges. i doubt the have the data to do that for the pledges and arenas so it would be a bad idea to do it for the quests.

STEVIL wrote: »

if by that you mean retroactive shipments, nope. never asked for it. never will.

STEVIL wrote: »

Well they can do it just like they can say "your maelstrom runs today drop crystals but the 100 prior ones, tough luck.
Right?

Well then you're a hypocrite. And no, NOT right. There's a huge difference between non-repeatable and repeatable content. There's no need to retroactively give rewards for repeatable content because it can always be repeated. But you want to not give it for quests? What's wrong with you? You are saying you are being locked out when you can go and do repeatable content and get crystals, but you want to lock me out of crystals rewarded for quests that I already completed? Nope.If you want players to agree with you - not gonna happen. And as you might guess probably ZOS will do what the majority supports..

STEVIL · September 2017

@Artis

2b well whether or not you get more vouchers from a or b i cannot say but in my experience given how easy it is to fullfill the requisites on multiple characters to get the drop rates up compared to say unlocking many motifs on more than one or two, it does not even come close. Also, ench and alchemy pretty much keep themselves fueled while top-end equipments do not, forcing diverting time to keep mpre than one to two characters loaded. But hey, maybe you are using different setup? but having gone from 48 tieri-tops a day at the peak to more sustainable levels IMX you can get stable setups providing a lot more from alchemy and enchanting that you can the equipment ones. Not even counting provisioning cuz of its abysmal drop rates and high achieves. but to be clear, not counting "per writ" but overall what one can get with sustainable efforts.Different setups will vary.

as for your own self-contradicting comment "And no, as I showed before, I DON'T get crystals for content I'm doing. Only 1 crystal per week." i can only ask whether you remembered the first sentence when you typed the second because both are not true.

3a & 3b. Ok so you dont see a difference between a short term promotion and a long term sub-system addition. Ok got it. Wont take on the challenge of explaining that to you. Me, i was on vacation with the last crown crate hit and did not get many of them because of not being available to log-in so to me there is a clear difference. It was not a problem, after all its just a temp promotion.

As for whether or not you base your opinion in part of the value of doing one content over the other, you were the one who brought up the health of the game and how the group trial content being run is better for it. You seem to be drawing a line in folks leaving their "comfort zone" of questing. Oh well, not my worry to try and convince you to see that for what it is.

as for this:

Why is it "entitled" for someone putting a lot of time into the main core quest content to seek that content to be included in the new sub-system fuel but not "entitled" for those running groups and trials and vet solo content to expect their content to be included in it? Especially for someone who says "my argument doesn't relate on superiority of any content." Seems to me I am asking for the larger body of content, to be included in the "obtain cryatsal" content thing just like the other content got... thats not asking for "entitlement" but just parity? of course, its not uncommon in games or other areas for such requests to
be viewed as asking for something special or entitlements, by those already having them.

@Artis just said "Not to mention that BoE gear can be bound, you know, after you equip it, but you still want to retrait it, so why not."

Glad to see you admitting there are reasons for re-traiting overland gear. Some around here have tried to posture that there is no reason to do so or that nobody would waste crystals on it. Nice to see you are not one of those.

Wait...

@Artis recently said
"It's not about justifying or excluding anyone. I asked you directly - what are you gonna retrait with those crystals if you don't want to run any endgame content that already gives crystals? If you aren't doing dungeons or pvp, then you either craft or buy gear. In both cases you can choose the trait and don't need to re-trait. "

Hmmm...

Oh well, surely that isnt you swapping positions when it suits you?

@Artis just said...

"Well then you're a hypocrite. And no, NOT right. There's a huge difference between non-repeatable and repeatable content. There's no need to retroactively give rewards for repeatable content because it can always be repeated. But you want to not give it for quests? What's wrong with you? You are saying you are being locked out when you can go and do repeatable content and get crystals, but you want to lock me out of crystals rewarded for quests that I already completed? Nope.If you want players to agree with you - not gonna happen. And as you might guess probably ZOS will do what the majority supports.."

You seem to like to use that word hypocrite but i am not sure it means what you think it means.

I have not asked for retroactive content performance rewards for eith end game or questing content. So sticking to that seems consistent.

I have said i do not think the new sub-system should lock a huge block of content, the biggest block, that of the main questing content out of the fuel for the new sub-system.

If they were to propose adding retroactive only for questing content and not for the repeatables, i would argue against it.

you may want to pretend there is some necessary linkage between retroactivity and letting crystals drop for main quests as described before, but thats just you coming up with stuff to argue about that i did not request.

feel free to fight for or against retroactivity-based crystals but just not so much with me cuz its not gonna be an issue i hang a hat on until it seems to be a thing.

Finally, kudos foir changing your position on trying to stop others from posting stuff you dont like them posting. That took guts i am sure to admit.

Artis · September 2017

sigh

STEVIL wrote: »

@Artis

2b well whether or not you get more vouchers from a or b i cannot say but in my experience given how easy it is to fullfill the requisites on multiple characters to get the drop rates up compared to say unlocking many motifs on more than one or two, it does not even come close. Also, ench and alchemy pretty much keep themselves fueled while top-end equipments do not, forcing diverting time to keep mpre than one to two characters loaded. But hey, maybe you are using different setup? but having gone from 48 tieri-tops a day at the peak to more sustainable levels IMX you can get stable setups providing a lot more from alchemy and enchanting that you can the equipment ones. Not even counting provisioning cuz of its abysmal drop rates and high achieves. but to be clear, not counting "per writ" but overall what one can get with sustainable efforts.Different setups will vary.

as for your own self-contradicting comment "And no, as I showed before, I DON'T get crystals for content I'm doing. Only 1 crystal per week." i can only ask whether you remembered the first sentence when you typed the second because both are not true.

2b no, the difference is huge. And no, if I"m doing my content enchanting and alchemy won't keep themselves fueled. How will they unless I go out and pick up some nodes?

The sentence is absolutely not self-contradicting. 1 crystal per week when you need 40 for just 1 item is negligible. If you seem to be okay with me having to quest to get scarlet judge costume and having to craft to get writs, then you can spend 5 minds to do a normal pledge. It's simple math.

STEVIL wrote: »

3a & 3b. Ok so you dont see a difference between a short term promotion and a long term sub-system addition. Ok got it. Wont take on the challenge of explaining that to you. Me, i was on vacation with the last crown crate hit and did not get many of them because of not being available to log-in so to me there is a clear difference. It was not a problem, after all its just a temp promotion.

Oh STFU and don't put words in my mouth. Because that's you right, that's how it reads. I obviously see the difference and you're illogical and dishonest. NAMELY because it's a short term promotion I am locked out if I didn't participate. The fact that you missed it too and are okay with this doesn't change anything. According to your logic - it's the same thing in the context of being locked out.

STEVIL wrote: »

As for whether or not you base your opinion in part of the value of doing one content over the other, you were the one who brought up the health of the game and how the group trial content being run is better for it. You seem to be drawing a line in folks leaving their "comfort zone" of questing. Oh well, not my worry to try and convince you to see that for what it is.

So? Of course types of content are not equal. What I was saying is that one player is not or less valuable as a person or player. But obviously some types of content have more impact on other players and the health of the game.

STEVIL wrote: »

Why is it "entitled" for someone putting a lot of time into the main core quest content to seek that content to be included in the new sub-system fuel but not "entitled" for those running groups and trials and vet solo content to expect their content to be included in it? Especially for someone who says "my argument doesn't relate on superiority of any content." Seems to me I am asking for the larger body of content, to be included in the "obtain cryatsal" content thing just like the other content got... thats not asking for "entitlement" but just parity? of course, its not uncommon in games or other areas for such requests to
be viewed as asking for something special or entitlements, by those already having them.

Because you already have a way to get BoE gear in any trait guaranteed right now. Today. What you're asking is not parity, but to keep the privilege. This system is providing parity between boe and bop gear farms, because now finally bop gear can be obtained in any trait with a guarantee.

STEVIL wrote: »

Glad to see you admitting there are reasons for re-traiting overland gear. Some around here have tried to posture that there is no reason to do so or that nobody would waste crystals on it. Nice to see you are not one of those.

Absolutely. Always admitted. But there are already ways to re-trait that gear. Except for your harpy shirt. But that's just about looks. And if I'm not locked out of the scarlet judge costume, then you aren't locked out of having a chest piece with a necessary trait. What set is that shirt a part of?

STEVIL wrote: »

"It's not about justifying or excluding anyone. I asked you directly - what are you gonna retrait with those crystals if you don't want to run any endgame content that already gives crystals? If you aren't doing dungeons or pvp, then you either craft or buy gear. In both cases you can choose the trait and don't need to re-trait. "

Hmmm...

Oh well, surely that isnt you swapping positions when it suits you?

Absolutely not swapping anything. Yes, you can retrait any gear, good. No, it's not required to use crystals for that. There are other options already in the game right now.

STEVIL wrote: »

"Well then you're a hypocrite. And no, NOT right. There's a huge difference between non-repeatable and repeatable content. There's no need to retroactively give rewards for repeatable content because it can always be repeated. But you want to not give it for quests? What's wrong with you? You are saying you are being locked out when you can go and do repeatable content and get crystals, but you want to lock me out of crystals rewarded for quests that I already completed? Nope.If you want players to agree with you - not gonna happen. And as you might guess probably ZOS will do what the majority supports.."

You seem to like to use that word hypocrite but i am not sure it means what you think it means.

I have not asked for retroactive content performance rewards for eith end game or questing content. So sticking to that seems consistent.

Oh yes I do, but you don't. And it's not because of sticking to something. Sticking to something doesn't make it consistent. You are inconsistent because your whining is based on being locked out. Yet you have no troubles with me being locked out of quest rewards because I already completed quests and can't do them again. hypocrite.

STEVIL wrote: »

I have said i do not think the new sub-system should lock a huge block of content, the biggest block, that of the main questing content out of the fuel for the new sub-system.

If they were to propose adding retroactive only for questing content and not for the repeatables, i would argue against it.

Because questing content doesn't need that system. It can take advantage of it, but it ALWAYS had options to get a needed trait. If you argued against it, that'd be pretty dumb. The huge difference is that I can't

STEVIL wrote: »

you may want to pretend there is some necessary linkage between retroactivity and letting crystals drop for main quests as described before, but thats just you coming up with stuff to argue about that i did not request.

No, there's linkage between that and your hypocrisy. The fact that you didn't request that stuff is inconsistent with your whines. You're whining that you are locked out, yet ask to add rewards that, say, I will be locked out of. All that on top of the fact, that you don't admit that your "logic" necessarily means that everyone is locked out of content (and its rewards) that is not their favorite content.

Anyone can do repeatable content. I can't do quests that I've done already.

STEVIL · September 2017

@Artis

The reference to alchey and enchant sustain was in the section talking about writs and sustaining writs for consumables vs equip etc. Alchey and enchant drop more mats and resources/decons than they consume, especially using surveys but for alchey even without. Equip writs do not - even with surveys at the top tier levels. that was the point. Context matters or did you forget the discussion was about writs top tier and amounts of writ vouchers etc?

A stated no need for me to change your mind on there being differences between temporary promotons and long term systems adds. not a fight i choose to take on.

And on your closing retro-not-retro positioning

I am not asking for retroactivity at all and **in part** because it cannot be at all applied as i understand the game. They dont necessarily track how often i have killed dungeon monster abc or ran pledge abc and the results and so on, even if they have some generic info, while they do have the records of main line quests. So they could not reasonably and equitably payback retroactive for content run already before the change to all parties. it would not be fair to award retro-crystals for questing but not for VMA runs or pledge runs or dungeon bosses killed in the past as well.

Also, they tend to not do retroactive awards, just "going forward" rewards. The only major exception i recall was mementos when they got their own sub-type off-inventory and arguably the tieing of some housing to achievements.

If they determine a way to rewards everyone for content already run , thats their call and i wont object but to me it is more ink keeping and consistent with the way they have handled new features to not do so.

My goal is to get a broader swath of the content that is played and that takes significant investment and that drops the boE gear to be included going forward under the crystal obtain while you play umbrella - specifically the content i have named.

You can champion the fight "retro-or no-retro-war" if you wish on your own or with others as you see fit but i am not and have not been a player in that skirmish and see no reason to get drawn into it with you.

I will say though that the expansion of normal content obtain crystals in this patch notes plus their comments about expansion intentions is very much a good start and gives me hope that by live we can see the main body questing content covered under the "obtain while you play" umbrella.

and you might want to look up the difference between negligible amounts and "DON'T get" because one is talking about none and the other is apparently some variant of "getting some but not getting as many as i want for what i do" (which may sound to some like maybe whining oe entitlement) which are actually contradictory.

NolaArch · September 2017

Artis wrote: »

sigh

Except for your harpy shirt...What set is that shirt a part of?

Withered Hand! Lots on the market at this very moment, even in Sturdy!

STEVIL · September 2017

NolaArch wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

sigh

Except for your harpy shirt...What set is that shirt a part of?

Withered Hand! Lots on the market at this very moment, even in Sturdy!

thanks but even @Artis has already acknowledge there are reasons to want to re-trait BoE gear vs buying new ones.

besides, i bet you dont **really** see the Harpy Shirt one in sturdy for sale, right?

NolaArch · September 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

NolaArch wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

sigh

Except for your harpy shirt...What set is that shirt a part of?

Withered Hand! Lots on the market at this very moment, even in Sturdy!

thanks but even @Artis has already acknowledge there are reasons to want to re-trait BoE gear vs buying new ones.

besides, i bet you dont **really** see the Harpy Shirt one in sturdy for sale, right?

Sure do!! https://us.tamrieltradecentre.com/pc/Trade/Detail/190220446
It doesn't have the Harpy name in there, but it sure is the exact same thing, minus semantics.

My bad! That first one is level 31. Here it is at the CP160 level! Hope that helps clear things up!
https://us.tamrieltradecentre.com/pc/Trade/Detail/190467534

STEVIL · September 2017

NolaArch wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

NolaArch wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

sigh

Except for your harpy shirt...What set is that shirt a part of?

Withered Hand! Lots on the market at this very moment, even in Sturdy!

thanks but even @Artis has already acknowledge there are reasons to want to re-trait BoE gear vs buying new ones.

besides, i bet you dont **really** see the Harpy Shirt one in sturdy for sale, right?

Sure do!! https://us.tamrieltradecentre.com/pc/Trade/Detail/190220446
It doesn't have the Harpy name in there, but it sure is the exact same thing, minus semantics.

My bad! That first one is level 31. Here it is at the CP160 level! Hope that helps clear things up!
https://us.tamrieltradecentre.com/pc/Trade/Detail/190467534

Like i said, not the Harpy Shirt in sturdy.

NolaArch · September 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

NolaArch wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

NolaArch wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

sigh

Except for your harpy shirt...What set is that shirt a part of?

Withered Hand! Lots on the market at this very moment, even in Sturdy!

thanks but even @Artis has already acknowledge there are reasons to want to re-trait BoE gear vs buying new ones.

besides, i bet you dont **really** see the Harpy Shirt one in sturdy for sale, right?

Sure do!! https://us.tamrieltradecentre.com/pc/Trade/Detail/190220446
It doesn't have the Harpy name in there, but it sure is the exact same thing, minus semantics.

My bad! That first one is level 31. Here it is at the CP160 level! Hope that helps clear things up!
https://us.tamrieltradecentre.com/pc/Trade/Detail/190467534

Like i said, not the Harpy Shirt in sturdy.

Oh, it is. I'm sure you're not advocating for this system to be open to questing because of a silly thing like the name "harpy" having to be attached. That would be petty and childish, for sure, and you're above that! But it's 100% the exact same set. Exact. Same. Set. Sturdy. Enjoy your shirt! If you need a spot on the 8k gold, I'm happy to lend a hand if you're on PC NA!

STEVIL · September 2017

NolaArch wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

NolaArch wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

NolaArch wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

sigh

Except for your harpy shirt...What set is that shirt a part of?

Withered Hand! Lots on the market at this very moment, even in Sturdy!

thanks but even @Artis has already acknowledge there are reasons to want to re-trait BoE gear vs buying new ones.

besides, i bet you dont **really** see the Harpy Shirt one in sturdy for sale, right?

Sure do!! https://us.tamrieltradecentre.com/pc/Trade/Detail/190220446
It doesn't have the Harpy name in there, but it sure is the exact same thing, minus semantics.

My bad! That first one is level 31. Here it is at the CP160 level! Hope that helps clear things up!
https://us.tamrieltradecentre.com/pc/Trade/Detail/190467534

Like i said, not the Harpy Shirt in sturdy.

Oh, it is. I'm sure you're not advocating for this system to be open to questing because of a silly thing like the name "harpy" having to be attached. That would be petty and childish, for sure, and you're above that! But it's 100% the exact same set. Exact. Same. Set. Sturdy. Enjoy your shirt! If you need a spot on the 8k gold, I'm happy to lend a hand if you're on PC NA!

looking at other people's preferences where they differ from yours and just declaring them petty and childish not not at all surprising. some folks are like that.

i take a different view... and no, as stated, this was an example from back in the day when some were claiming there was no reason to re-trait BoE as a reason to justify not including BoE dropping quest content as described.

but the fact that certain staves in good traits may sell even BoE at six figures and while their worst trait flavors sell at fractions of that should show there are reasons for considering re-trait if one has crystals as an option.

i was actually glad when that red herring was dispensed with.

NolaArch · September 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

looking [sic] at other people's preferences where they differ from yours and just declaring them petty and childish not not at all surprising. some [sic] folks are like that.

That doesn't really make sense as I have no preference. Also, I made the assumption that you wouldn't be that petty. I wasn't wrong, was I?

i [sic] take a different view... and no, as stated, this was an example from back in the day when some were claiming there was no reason to re-trait BoE as a reason to justify not including BoE dropping quest content as described.

But it isn't relevant anymore. At all, really. You can get the set piece you want in the trait you want. The absolute only reason to argue for transmutation crystals to be available through questing with your example would be to ensure you could have the name "harpy shirt" on your Withered Hand piece. To ask a development team to implement this system beyond its current state for just that reason would be selfish because they'd only be serving you. Your example from "back in the day" just can't be applied today as the harpy shirt is now a set item and that set piece can be found in your desired trait very easily.

but [sic] the fact that certain staves in good traits may sell even BoE at six figures and while their worst trait flavors sell at fractions of that should show there are reasons for considering re-trait if one has crystals as an option.

Fair enough. Retrait the cheaper version, I would. But not with crystals obtained through questing.

i [sic] was actually glad when that red herring was dispensed with.
K.

STEVIL · September 2017

NolaArch wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

looking [sic] at other people's preferences where they differ from yours and just declaring them petty and childish not not at all surprising. some [sic] folks are like that.

That doesn't really make sense as I have no preference. Also, I made the assumption that you wouldn't be that petty. I wasn't wrong, was I?

i [sic] take a different view... and no, as stated, this was an example from back in the day when some were claiming there was no reason to re-trait BoE as a reason to justify not including BoE dropping quest content as described.

But it isn't relevant anymore. At all, really. You can get the set piece you want in the trait you want. The absolute only reason to argue for transmutation crystals to be available through questing with your example would be to ensure you could have the name "harpy shirt" on your Withered Hand piece. To ask a development team to implement this system beyond its current state for just that reason would be selfish because they'd only be serving you. Your example from "back in the day" just can't be applied today as the harpy shirt is now a set item and that set piece can be found in your desired trait very easily.

but [sic] the fact that certain staves in good traits may sell even BoE at six figures and while their worst trait flavors sell at fractions of that should show there are reasons for considering re-trait if one has crystals as an option.

Fair enough. Retrait the cheaper version, I would. But not with crystals obtained through questing.

i [sic] was actually glad when that red herring was dispensed with.
K.

you described a reason you seemed to disagree with as petty etc. i tend ti just view different preferences as different preferences. And as stated it was never "just for that reason" it was "just one example" that was deliberately chosen to point out that people like different things for different reasons and we dont have to value them ourselves to allow them a place.

And yeah, folks keep getting hung up on what can or cannot be re-traited or should or should not be re-traited and for what reasons and so on.

you would think i had made any proposal about "what can be re-traited" when i have not.

I am just focused on what content can provide crystals and getting the main body of PVE content included at a rate which keeps it from being too fast by comparison to the other types of content.

What happens after you get the crystals has not been anything i have argued or fought for/against changes to, i think my only comments on those were other places about letting crafters' achievements and/or passives have an impact on the number of crystals. required. Not to make crafting a bottleneck but to give them a beneficial role in this new form or drop/crafted-set-alterations since they have beneficial roles in the other existing drop/crafted-set alterations.

teiselaise · September 2017

Oh yes Fack yeah thanks for finally understanding!

sevomd69 · September 2017

This thread has some of the longest posts I've ever seen...

STEVIL · September 2017

sevomd69 wrote: »

This thread has some of the longest posts I've ever seen...

These? These?!?

Bah, these are pale imitations.

In the old days of the Republic our posts were so long they would blot out the sun. Now, barely obscuring a moon. We have grown old, with tiny hands and fat fingers.

#MissYouMollari