Wake up people ! Transmutaion is not for lazy scrubs.

Juhasow

Some people seems still not to get it so I'll leave that here :

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The new Transmutation system is intended as a way to assist you in obtaining the trait you desire for your gear as you play, but not be the primary way to obtain it. You'll obtain Transmutation Crystals as you play the content you're already participating in, but it isn't meant to be something you get immediately. We want you to feel like you have a way to eventually get the trait you want.

It's not new way to instantly get everything in trait You want but it's an option to fight with RNG and have second option to be rewarded for effort of taking part in content if You was not lucky enough to drop things You want with perfect trait.

dirtykdx

In other words, it's making nirnhoned alkosh shields obtainable again (beings the weekly rewards were moved to only the sets from that week's trial - so rare chance of it in the reward email was dropped to a rare chance on 16% of the weeks). Everything else? Keep farming.

NolaArch

Exactly.

Furthermore, when people are saying, "...but I don't do vet content", "...I've never run a vet dungeon or trial", "...I don't like doing pledges", "I don't want to run vMA/vDSA", cool. If you are already not running this content, you are not in need of this system. This system is meant to reward people who are running the content and have not had RNG on their side. Eventually, the grind will end as you'll have accumulated enough crystals. That is the stated intent of the system.

Also, it is not a crafting item. You'll need to research the trait, but that is as far as it goes into crafting. It. Is. Not. A. Crafting. Item. It does not matter what your woodworker does or does not do in this game. Crystals simply change the trait on dropped gear. No one is using these on crafted gear.

Can we please stop the madness?

zyk

A big problem with PVP in ESO is the PVE grind. Now, you might think, well, "if you don't like it, don't play." Well, that's what PVP players do.. err.. don't do.. and that's the problem. A big reason ESO PVP is so unpopular is because players would prefer to not play ESO at all than to have to grind in order to feel competitive in PVP.

A lot of PVP players I know were excited about the Transmutation system because they thought they could come back to ESO and do what they enjoy: play open world AvA.

After learning about what the Transmutation system actually is, they realized that if they come back to ESO, in order to remain competitive they will be: Grinding the same 4-12 player instances they've already done for years and are completely sick of and would rather gouge their eyes out than have to do it every day again.

Grinding in ESO is worse than it is in a lot of other games because it's insanely repetitious. Designing gameplay around grinding the same content for YEARS is very very bad IMO.

Furthermore, I will say ZOS is really dumb by trying, once again, to encourage hardcore players to use the group finder. That is a recipe to make both hardcore and casual players miserable when the group finder matches them.

Integral1900

zyk wrote: »

A big problem with PVP in ESO is the PVE grind. Now, you might think, well, "if you don't like it, don't play." Well, that's what PVP players do.. err.. don't do.. and that's the problem. A big reason ESO PVP is so unpopular is because players would prefer to not play ESO at all than to have to grind in order to feel competitive in PVP.

A lot of PVP players I know were excited about the Transmutation system because they thought they could come back to ESO and do what they enjoy: play open world AvA.

After learning about what the Transmutation system actually is, they realized that if they come back to ESO, in order to remain competitive they will be: Grinding the same 4-12 player instances they've already done for years and are completely sick of and would rather gouge their eyes out than have to do it every day again.

Grinding in ESO is worse than it is in a lot of other games because it's insanely repetitious. Designing gameplay around grinding the same content for YEARS is very very bad IMO.

Furthermore, I will say ZOS is really dumb by trying, once again, to encourage hardcore players to use the group finder. That is a recipe to make both hardcore and casual players miserable when the group finder matches them.

This ^

Blimey, never thought I'd be agreeing with the pvp brigade

supaskrub

zyk wrote: »

After learning about what the Transmutation system actually is, they realized that if they come back to ESO, in order to remain competitive they will be: Grinding the same 4-12 player instances they've already done for years and are completely sick of and would rather gouge their eyes out than have to do it every day again.

PvP players wont even have to touch PvE to get the crystals, they can just carry on grinding AP as they do now without even setting foot out of Cyrodiil. Rewards of the Worthy which are given for every 20k ap earned and end of campaign rewards both have a chance of dropping the crystals, maybe rewards of the worthy will not drop them often but when you can get 20 or so rewards of the worthy in a relatively short time they are far from being forced into PvE.

Jade1986

Why does this remind me of the vendors they put in SWTOR?

I mean, literally the same move, just different name.

Btw, @ZOS_GinaBruno - Everyone hated that system, and still hates that system.

Defilted

1. Run content you are running now with the hopes you get the drop you want
2. While running this content you sometimes get a re-trait MAT
3. I never got the trait I wanted , but then I earned enough MATS
4. Changed trait.


Seems like a okay system to me based on my understanding

Sigtric

Defilted wrote: »

1. Run content you are running now with the hopes you get the drop you want
2. While running this content you sometimes get a re-trait MAT
3. I never got the trait I wanted , but then I earned enough MATS
4. Changed trait.


Seems like a okay system to me based on my understanding

You are right...

This wouldn't be ESO with out people complaining about it though.

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO

I understand the intention behind the transmutation system. I realize that it is meant as a hard cap on rolling the RNG dice. My concern (and likely the concern of many others who seem upset with the drop rates, crystal requires, and carrying capacity) is that this doesn't do much to help at all. By 40 runs in a dungeon, there is a very good chance that you got what you were looking for. At an average of 4 bosses per dungeon that drop specific loot, you have 4 opportunities each time to find the piece you are looking for (provided it isn't a weapon or jewelry, but jewelry can't be transmuted anyways). That means by the time you have enough crystals to transmute something, you've had 160 (on average) opportunities to loot what you were looking for.

I can definitely see transmutation in its current state helping people who are looking for a very specific weapon that only drops on the last boss. But in those 160 looting opportunities, you're damn near statistically guaranteed to have the gear in the traits you are looking for, making transmutation completely useless. In fact, assuming the drop rates are all equal, it's statistically plausible to have almost every single piece of armor from every single set in every single trait. This means that transmutation will not (in its current state) be a system which serves to alleviate grinding in any practical sense, but only to act as a hard cutoff for the amount of times necessary to run content for a very specific pice of gear, and almost certainly always a weapon.

TL;DR transmutation won't be of any use to you unless you are looking for a specific weapon in a specific trait. If fewer crystals were required to transmute and item, then it would be applicable to all defferent pieces of gear. But for now, it's only purpose is to offer an out after you've already grinded for dozens and dozens of hours.

Once again, THIS WILL NOT PREVENT GRINDING EXCEPT FOR THE LONGEST AND HARDEST AND MOST SPECIFIC GRINDS

OK that's all I have thanks for reading

sevomd69

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

I understand the intention behind the transmutation system. I realize that it is meant as a hard cap on rolling the RNG dice. My concern (and likely the concern of many others who seem upset with the drop rates, crystal requires, and carrying capacity) is that this doesn't do much to help at all. By 40 runs in a dungeon, there is a very good chance that you got what you were looking for. At an average of 4 bosses per dungeon that drop specific loot, you have 4 opportunities each time to find the piece you are looking for (provided it isn't a weapon or jewelry, but jewelry can't be transmuted anyways). That means by the time you have enough crystals to transmute something, you've had 160 (on average) opportunities to loot what you were looking for.

I can definitely see transmutation in its current state helping people who are looking for a very specific weapon that only drops on the last boss. But in those 160 looting opportunities, you're damn near statistically guaranteed to have the gear in the traits you are looking for, making transmutation completely useless. In fact, assuming the drop rates are all equal, it's statistically plausible to have almost every single piece of armor from every single set in every single trait. This means that transmutation will not (in its current state) be a system which serves to alleviate grinding in any practical sense, but only to act as a hard cutoff for the amount of times necessary to run content for a very specific pice of gear, and almost certainly always a weapon.

TL;DR transmutation won't be of any use to you unless you are looking for a specific weapon in a specific trait. If fewer crystals were required to transmute and item, then it would be applicable to all defferent pieces of gear. But for now, it's only purpose is to offer an out after you've already grinded for dozens and dozens of hours.

Once again, THIS WILL NOT PREVENT GRINDING EXCEPT FOR THE LONGEST AND HARDEST AND MOST SPECIFIC GRINDS

OK that's all I have thanks for reading

Exactly... this is what transmute is designed to do... for the person who has run vCOA II 200x to get that Divine Valkyn Helm...he can transmute it in 20% of the time it took to get what he/she wanted...

ccfeeling

40 runs , 160 loots , if u still have to use crystals , what I think is BUG !

Mettaricana

Knowing my lick if crystals arent a guaranteed drop ill still get f@$# by rng lol

Mystrius_Archaion

zyk wrote: »

A big problem with PVP in ESO is the PVE grind. Now, you might think, well, "if you don't like it, don't play." Well, that's what PVP players do.. err.. don't do.. and that's the problem. A big reason ESO PVP is so unpopular is because players would prefer to not play ESO at all than to have to grind in order to feel competitive in PVP.

That's the flaw of every tab-target/auto-aim mmo gameplay out there. They still have pvp affected by pve stats. The only way to make it balanced and work is to make separate pvp stats and really separate mechanics. Some games have done it, but it is hard and often flawed.

So, you will always have to pve to pvp on any competitive level in this game as they have designed it without a major redesign and that is why pvp will always have fewer players than it could have.


As to the topic: Everybody deserves the gear they get being in the trait they want. They may not get Asylum Weapons to retrait but if they want to retrait their other unlucky drops they should be able to.
This isn't some exclusive system for the best of the best. That's what leaderboards are for. This is a system to help with RNG issues that also plague normal dungeons and overland content sometimes.

FYI, she did post they drop occasionally from normal dungeons, so it does show they want it somewhat accessible.

Morgul667

I understood that pledges would give cristals as well as first vet random and end of pvp campaign. + some random drops here and there from time to time

Seems that you can go on , doing your usual dailies , pvp and accumulate some cristals to change the weapon later on.

Robby94

meh, i still think 40 stones is too much for the amount of time it will take to get them, an average person who plays 3 times a week might do 9 pledges, that is 9 stones and possible 18 if you get lucky and get them from the last boss of the dungeons. they might also do the randoms which is another 6 possible 12 so a possible 15-30 if rng loves you.
Actually after seeing it like that 40 doesn't seem like too much. so for most everyday players your looking at like a week or two tops before you can retrait. which lets be honest is mostly for weapons. armor set piece are easier to farm and in those two weeks chances are your gonna get that armor drop.

still i'd prefer to need 20-25 stones per re-trait or 400 cap on how many stones you can have at once. sorry for the back and forward comment, just my brain working out the logic of it all

edit: just realized that is only with one character, so that means it will take even less time

sparafucilsarwb17_ESO

There might be a reason as to why they want us to grind for these 40 crystals to change 1 trait - they want to add the crystals to the crown store somewhere along the line...

Lord_Eomer

Juhasow wrote: »

Some people seems still not to get it so I'll leave that here :

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The new Transmutation system is intended as a way to assist you in obtaining the trait you desire for your gear as you play, but not be the primary way to obtain it. You'll obtain Transmutation Crystals as you play the content you're already participating in, but it isn't meant to be something you get immediately. We want you to feel like you have a way to eventually get the trait you want.

It's not new way to instantly get everything in trait You want but it's an option to fight with RNG and have second option to be rewarded for effort of taking part in content if You was not lucky enough to drop things You want with perfect trait.

I agree with Gina comments,

if this system becomes first choice and too easy then no one will bother contents.

Turelus

This is what I was saying yesterday in a couple of threads.

Token systems are not a means to gear up, they are an solution to RNG issues in MMO games.

sevomd69

Robby94 wrote: »

meh, i still think 40 stones is too much for the amount of time it will take to get them, an average person who plays 3 times a week might do 9 pledges, that is 9 stones and possible 18 if you get lucky and get them from the last boss of the dungeons. they might also do the randoms which is another 6 possible 12 so a possible 15-30 if rng loves you.
Actually after seeing it like that 40 doesn't seem like too much. so for most everyday players your looking at like a week or two tops before you can retrait. which lets be honest is mostly for weapons. armor set piece are easier to farm and in those two weeks chances are your gonna get that armor drop.

still i'd prefer to need 20-25 stones per re-trait or 400 cap on how many stones you can have at once. sorry for the back and forward comment, just my brain working out the logic of it all

edit: just realized that is only with one character, so that means it will take even less time

If I get a good group together...we can burn through most vet pledges... I have 14 toons... that's at most 42 I can get just from pledges... in like a day or 2...

Derra

zyk wrote: »

A big problem with PVP in ESO is the PVE grind. Now, you might think, well, "if you don't like it, don't play." Well, that's what PVP players do.. err.. don't do.. and that's the problem. A big reason ESO PVP is so unpopular is because players would prefer to not play ESO at all than to have to grind in order to feel competitive in PVP.

A lot of PVP players I know were excited about the Transmutation system because they thought they could come back to ESO and do what they enjoy: play open world AvA.

After learning about what the Transmutation system actually is, they realized that if they come back to ESO, in order to remain competitive they will be: Grinding the same 4-12 player instances they've already done for years and are completely sick of and would rather gouge their eyes out than have to do it every day again.

Grinding in ESO is worse than it is in a lot of other games because it's insanely repetitious. Designing gameplay around grinding the same content for YEARS is very very bad IMO.

Furthermore, I will say ZOS is really dumb by trying, once again, to encourage hardcore players to use the group finder. That is a recipe to make both hardcore and casual players miserable when the group finder matches them.

100% this.

They replace grind with - grind.
What makes it worse is that it´s not even letting people grind the content they like on the char they like.

No they require you to grind pledges on as many chars as possible each and every day. Taking chances with rewards for the unworthy does not seem to come close to doing that.

Will 30 day campaign rewards atleast award you with more than one stone?

Derra

Turelus wrote: »

This is what I was saying yesterday in a couple of threads.

Token systems are not a means to gear up, they are an solution to RNG issues in MMO games.

Then zos has to realise that their game is insanely inaccessible for new or returning players who cannot or don´t want to put in an imense amount of time.

The game offers the greatest variety on gearing that i´ve personally ever experienced since daoc.

Yet only the most dedicated players can even begin to experiment because that gear is insanely hard to obtain in useable configurations.

Imo a realistic target would be doing all 3 pledges on one char for 7 days to retrait one item (meaning 21 stones). That´s easily 10 hours of playing to get one item in a trait you want - with the game offering around 20 usable itemsets + master, maelstrom and asylum weapons.

I have no idea who someone can sit down and think 20+ hours of forced content for one item is good design. It´s not goign to help the issues the game has.
It´s not gonna motivate players who currently don´t enjoy it.

All it´s gonna do is make gearing moderately easier for hardcore players.

Juhasow

Mettaricana wrote: »

Knowing my lick if crystals arent a guaranteed drop ill still get f@$# by rng lol

There are objectives that will always give You crystals like :
Veteran Undaunted Pledge
Your first completed random Veteran dungeon through the Grouping Tool per day
Trial Weekly Quests
Leaderboards (AvA, Trials, Arenas, and Battlegrounds)
End of Campaign Rewards (both 7-day and 30-day)
Veteran Maelstrom Arena
Veteran Dragonstar Aren

Juhasow

Derra wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

A big problem with PVP in ESO is the PVE grind. Now, you might think, well, "if you don't like it, don't play." Well, that's what PVP players do.. err.. don't do.. and that's the problem. A big reason ESO PVP is so unpopular is because players would prefer to not play ESO at all than to have to grind in order to feel competitive in PVP.

A lot of PVP players I know were excited about the Transmutation system because they thought they could come back to ESO and do what they enjoy: play open world AvA.

After learning about what the Transmutation system actually is, they realized that if they come back to ESO, in order to remain competitive they will be: Grinding the same 4-12 player instances they've already done for years and are completely sick of and would rather gouge their eyes out than have to do it every day again.

Grinding in ESO is worse than it is in a lot of other games because it's insanely repetitious. Designing gameplay around grinding the same content for YEARS is very very bad IMO.

Furthermore, I will say ZOS is really dumb by trying, once again, to encourage hardcore players to use the group finder. That is a recipe to make both hardcore and casual players miserable when the group finder matches them.

100% this.

They replace grind with - grind.
What makes it worse is that it´s not even letting people grind the content they like on the char they like.

No they require you to grind pledges on as many chars as possible each and every day. Taking chances with rewards for the unworthy does not seem to come close to doing that.

Will 30 day campaign rewards atleast award you with more than one stone?

Well actually they replace horrible grind without knowing will You finally get the 1 piece You're looking for with grind where You can control RNG and get adventage of participating in content over pure luck.

I think someone said he recived 40 crystals for purple reward on 30 days campaign so it's pretty decent I would say to get 1 free retrait just for doing what You like without changing nothing ion Your day routine. BG leaderboards also will grant crystals.

Also I suspect Rewards of the worthy wont give incredibly lot of crystals but still You should get them enough to tweak things here and there from time to time. It's nice if we consider You dont have to change literally anything ion Your playstyle and day routine. PvE players will have to be much more active to get crystals faster because not many players is doing 20 pedges per day normally or vMA/vDSA one by one for days.

Derra

Juhasow wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

A big problem with PVP in ESO is the PVE grind. Now, you might think, well, "if you don't like it, don't play." Well, that's what PVP players do.. err.. don't do.. and that's the problem. A big reason ESO PVP is so unpopular is because players would prefer to not play ESO at all than to have to grind in order to feel competitive in PVP.

A lot of PVP players I know were excited about the Transmutation system because they thought they could come back to ESO and do what they enjoy: play open world AvA.

After learning about what the Transmutation system actually is, they realized that if they come back to ESO, in order to remain competitive they will be: Grinding the same 4-12 player instances they've already done for years and are completely sick of and would rather gouge their eyes out than have to do it every day again.

Grinding in ESO is worse than it is in a lot of other games because it's insanely repetitious. Designing gameplay around grinding the same content for YEARS is very very bad IMO.

Furthermore, I will say ZOS is really dumb by trying, once again, to encourage hardcore players to use the group finder. That is a recipe to make both hardcore and casual players miserable when the group finder matches them.

100% this.

They replace grind with - grind.
What makes it worse is that it´s not even letting people grind the content they like on the char they like.

No they require you to grind pledges on as many chars as possible each and every day. Taking chances with rewards for the unworthy does not seem to come close to doing that.

Will 30 day campaign rewards atleast award you with more than one stone?

Well actually they replace horrible grind without knowing will You finally get the 1 piece You're looking for with grind where You can control RNG and get adventage of participating in content over pure luck.

I think someone said he recived 40 crystals for purple reward on 30 days campaign so it's pretty decent I would say to get 1 free retrait just for doing what You like without changing nothing ion Your day routine. BG leaderboards also will grant crystals.

Also I suspect Rewards of the worthy wont give incredibly lot of crystals but still You should get them enough to tweak things here and there from time to time. It's nice if we consider You dont have to change literally anything ion Your playstyle and day routine. PvE players will have to be much more active to get crystals faster because not many players is doing 20 pedges per day normally or vMA/vDSA one by one for days.

That´s actually really reasonable! Appreciate the feedback on that matter.

Still think the pve timesink is a little too high in that case but for pvp it seems to very decent.

Sigma957

What about people who already got the gear but crap traits? All you need to do is get on your toon with that specific trait known and re-trait the gear , I don't see a problem in this and as the the stones can be gotten by both pve/pvp it' doesn't leave anyone out.

altemriel

Juhasow wrote: »

Some people seems still not to get it so I'll leave that here :

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The new Transmutation system is intended as a way to assist you in obtaining the trait you desire for your gear as you play, but not be the primary way to obtain it. You'll obtain Transmutation Crystals as you play the content you're already participating in, but it isn't meant to be something you get immediately. We want you to feel like you have a way to eventually get the trait you want.

It's not new way to instantly get everything in trait You want but it's an option to fight with RNG and have second option to be rewarded for effort of taking part in content if You was not lucky enough to drop things You want with perfect trait.

well, yeah, you need 40 crystals to re-trait only one item, so it is pretty hard for casuals to get them (veteran content)

Juhasow

Derra wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

A big problem with PVP in ESO is the PVE grind. Now, you might think, well, "if you don't like it, don't play." Well, that's what PVP players do.. err.. don't do.. and that's the problem. A big reason ESO PVP is so unpopular is because players would prefer to not play ESO at all than to have to grind in order to feel competitive in PVP.

A lot of PVP players I know were excited about the Transmutation system because they thought they could come back to ESO and do what they enjoy: play open world AvA.

After learning about what the Transmutation system actually is, they realized that if they come back to ESO, in order to remain competitive they will be: Grinding the same 4-12 player instances they've already done for years and are completely sick of and would rather gouge their eyes out than have to do it every day again.

Grinding in ESO is worse than it is in a lot of other games because it's insanely repetitious. Designing gameplay around grinding the same content for YEARS is very very bad IMO.

Furthermore, I will say ZOS is really dumb by trying, once again, to encourage hardcore players to use the group finder. That is a recipe to make both hardcore and casual players miserable when the group finder matches them.

100% this.

They replace grind with - grind.
What makes it worse is that it´s not even letting people grind the content they like on the char they like.

No they require you to grind pledges on as many chars as possible each and every day. Taking chances with rewards for the unworthy does not seem to come close to doing that.

Will 30 day campaign rewards atleast award you with more than one stone?

Well actually they replace horrible grind without knowing will You finally get the 1 piece You're looking for with grind where You can control RNG and get adventage of participating in content over pure luck.

I think someone said he recived 40 crystals for purple reward on 30 days campaign so it's pretty decent I would say to get 1 free retrait just for doing what You like without changing nothing ion Your day routine. BG leaderboards also will grant crystals.

Also I suspect Rewards of the worthy wont give incredibly lot of crystals but still You should get them enough to tweak things here and there from time to time. It's nice if we consider You dont have to change literally anything ion Your playstyle and day routine. PvE players will have to be much more active to get crystals faster because not many players is doing 20 pedges per day normally or vMA/vDSA one by one for days.

That´s actually really reasonable! Appreciate the feedback on that matter.

Still think the pve timesink is a little too high in that case but for pvp it seems to very decent.

Well depends how many crystals will drop for certain activities because as we know already some activities can give multiple crystals.

DRXHarbinger

altemriel wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Some people seems still not to get it so I'll leave that here :

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The new Transmutation system is intended as a way to assist you in obtaining the trait you desire for your gear as you play, but not be the primary way to obtain it. You'll obtain Transmutation Crystals as you play the content you're already participating in, but it isn't meant to be something you get immediately. We want you to feel like you have a way to eventually get the trait you want.

It's not new way to instantly get everything in trait You want but it's an option to fight with RNG and have second option to be rewarded for effort of taking part in content if You was not lucky enough to drop things You want with perfect trait.

well, yeah, you need 40 crystals to re-trait only one item, so it is pretty hard for casuals to get them (veteran content)

But in reality you'll only need to retrait one or two items after the grind for crystals anyway. It's not that big a deal tbh.

Still no one knows exactly when this drops how many crystals will be awarded from each completion, ZOS have been known to change their minds at any given time.

The bigger issue for PVPers will be they seldom do any research and the friends they have long relied on for crafting can't help retrait bound items.

This is where the next argument starts..being locked behind a...RP'ers wall (no doubt they'll refer to it as this) and having to wait until 50 days or so just to retrait one item...that's if they sub for reduced research time...and then they'll have to l2craft for the skill points to reduce research times...My god the PVP crowd have really been done over here.

How I like being a role playing PVE gimp that played all aspects of the game.

Bring on the Crystals, Every shield in Nirn, All weapons that I bountiful stacks off in pointless traits now all BIS...Everything researched..easy mode from the start.

Lieblingsjunge

Since it looks like you can do any veteran dungeon through group finder tool(I'm assuming it works with a premade group....?) just choose one of the easy/short ones and that's done in ~10 minutes. And come on, 10 minutes every day people have to do a dungeon. 10 minutes for one vet-dungeon => Then you can proceed to PvP again. Do that a couple of days a week + the pvp rewards => You'll eventually have your crystals. Since you only would need to retrait 2-3 pieces in most cases, I really don't see the problem with it. Re-traiting should be a fix to terrible-RNGods - not a way to easily get your desired trait. Why do people want everything for free, and easily obtainable. What happened to working for something?

I feel more sorry for the ultra-casual roleplayers who's roleplayed their entire ESO-playtime without any gear or aquired any skills. :^



And DRXHarbinger, since you can start with Nirnhoned / Infused / Sharp / Precise - the first 3-4 traits are done in a couple of days at most. Nirnhoned as first trait takes the same time as an infused first trait. The trait should be the least of everyone's worries. Idk how many Nirn-weapons I've crafted for my friends(who pretty much only PvPs). (If you, however, have to have 9 traits to re-trait, then RIP).

CoyoteNZ

Are crystals bound, or can they be traded and sold in guild stores?