Wake up people ! Transmutaion is not for lazy scrubs.

clocksstoppe

I'd like to hear you say that when they will inevitably sell the retrait crystals in the crown store. You think they'd go through all this trouble of putting them through an account wide special currency system for nothing? Joke's on you OP, lazy scrubs will just buy them from the crown store.

Feanor

I'm still baffled why casuals or RPers would need to retrait...and as @Lieblingsjunge has said, just run Fungal Grotto or Selene's Web. Takes 15 minutes each.

SaintSubwayy

CoyoteNZ wrote: »

Are crystals bound, or can they be traded and sold in guild stores?

Yes they are bound, they dont take an inventory space and they work Accountwide

They cannot be banked or traded at all

IwakuraLain42

Feanor wrote: »

I'm still baffled why casuals or RPers would need to retrait...and as @Lieblingsjunge has said, just run Fungal Grotto or Selene's Web. Takes 15 minutes each.

Doesn't work that way, you only get a guaranteed drop on doing the first random veteran dungeon per day (hopefully that will ignore abandoned runs, doing DLC dungeons with GF is a nightmare)

Vapirko

@CoyoteNZ bound. No trading, no selling.

@zyk I think ZOS actually did a good thing allowing them to be obtained through pvp. Someone didn't read the natch potes. Yes the game is mind numblingly grindy but they could easily have not included them in rewards of the worthy etc.

@DRXHarbinger lol dude do you just like the sound of your own "voice?" You legitimately seem happy that pvp only players are going to have a hard time with this.

Irfind

Feanor wrote: »

I'm still baffled why casuals or RPers would need to retrait...and as @Lieblingsjunge has said, just run Fungal Grotto or Selene's Web. Takes 15 minutes each.

Hm maybe i want my monster helm Kragh from the golden Vendor in divine ? Casual players also try to improve their gear ?

Juhasow

CoyoteNZ wrote: »

Are crystals bound, or can they be traded and sold in guild stores?

Bound to Your account , so all You characters have free acces to them at any given time but You cant trade them with others.

Izaki

I'm kinda disappointed cause I already have all the weapons in all the BiS traits... What do I do now? Like the Transmute system is around, but I can't even use it... I guess I'll just farm for a crappy weapon and then transmute it just to be cool.

Mojmir

when it goes live, its needs to be 20 crystals or below and guaranteed drop every time. we didn't ask for more grinding

Juhasow

Mojmir wrote: »

when it goes live, its needs to be 20 crystals or below and guaranteed drop every time. we didn't ask for more grinding

And we dont get more grinding. We'll be doing everything what we've been doing counting on luck to get BiS items but if that luck wont happen then we'll be able to retrait some weaker items we recived in the procces of farming BiS.

Retraiting isnt new way to get BiS , it's new way to assist getting it if You had not enough luck from loot.

DRXHarbinger

Vapirko wrote: »

@CoyoteNZ bound. No trading, no selling.

@zyk I think ZOS actually did a good thing allowing them to be obtained through pvp. Someone didn't read the natch potes. Yes the game is mind numblingly grindy but they could easily have not included them in rewards of the worthy etc.

@DRXHarbinger lol dude do you just like the sound of your own "voice?" You legitimately seem happy that pvp only players are going to have a hard time with this.

Stalk much, If you can actually possess the ability to see through sarcasm (If American I apologize I know you lack that ability) You'll realise that's actually quite a serious problem to people that largely PVP as there has been very little incentive to invest in crafting when crafted goods were always tradable and just required another person to do it, now irrelevant of having a crafter friend they will not be able to pass on transmuted items to you unless they are BOE but barely anything will be worth transmuting if it's BOE as you can buy it anyway. Unless the BOP items were looted within the same group, transmuted within 2hrs and handed to the person that wanted it (assuming transmuting doesn't remove the trade ability or make it bound) Haven't checked this yet. But it is actually a kick in the nuts to pvp players. levelling crafting is painfully slow.

Mojmir

Juhasow wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

when it goes live, its needs to be 20 crystals or below and guaranteed drop every time. we didn't ask for more grinding

And we dont get more grinding. We'll be doing everything what we've been doing counting on luck to get BiS items but if that luck wont happen then we'll be able to retrait spom,e weakes items we recived in the procces of farming BiS.

Retraiting isnt new way to get BiS , it's new way to assist getting it if You had not enough luck from loot.

so in other words, grinding. we aalready ran the content to get an item, why should we have to run 40 more times? again, this isnt what we asked for.

ADarklore

They need to add these crystals to the Crown Store for players who do not run the content which is the only way to acquire them!!

theamazingx

clocksstoppe wrote: »

I'd like to hear you say that when they will inevitably sell the retrait crystals in the crown store. You think they'd go through all this trouble of putting them through an account wide special currency system for nothing? Joke's on you OP, lazy scrubs will just buy them from the crown store.

I bet you're one of those people who thought the typo on some store food meant it was going to be p2w a couple updates ago.

Elloa

The system is fair. To the complainers, what were you expecting to be honnest?

You play the game:
- You are lucky, you get the gear you want
- You are not lucky, you get the cristal to get the gear you want.

That doesn't replace the work you have to put in the game. The only thing that get to replace time and effort is luck. no one can guarantee luck. But if you put the time and effort, now, with this system you are guanrantee to be rewarded for your effort. Either by getting the item you want. Or by getting the cristal to get the item you want. PVPer do not need to PVE.

So all is good, really!

Thanks Zenimax!


(Personaly and selfishly I don't care about the system, as I don't care about having the best gear in slot)

DeadlyRecluse

I'm not even viewing transmutation crystals as something to grind for. I'll still grind for properly traited gear, and when I organically obtain enough crystals, great! That's a plus!

They will be fantastic for "correcting" the worst RNG (traits on dungeon boss weapons and vMA weapons), but I don't think it'll be worth using them to change armor traits, for the most part (besides shoulders, if you don't stockpile keys).

Feanor

Irfind wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I'm still baffled why casuals or RPers would need to retrait...and as @Lieblingsjunge has said, just run Fungal Grotto or Selene's Web. Takes 15 minutes each.

Hm maybe i want my monster helm Kragh from the golden Vendor in divine ? Casual players also try to improve their gear ?

That 0.23% DPS increase will sure take the casuals to a whole new level. And I'm no pro gamer myself, before you label me as elitist filth.

Defilted

A casual players by definition casually plays the game. This term is still very broad.

Does this mean they spend less time playing the game or does it mean they have a casual attitude while playing the game. I tend to believe the former is more likely than the latter.

So if the assumption is a casual players spend less time playing ESO than more dedicated players then I tend to believe that the re-trait system is not really geared toward casual players, but more aimed at the players who are spending a lot of time trying to get a specific gear/trait they want.

I do not think by implementing this system that ESO is trying to change the understanding that if you want the best gear you have to spend more time playing the game than a casual player.

Feanor

@Defilted

No matter the definition, it simply makes no sense to get riled up about the transmutation system if you don't need perfect traits in the first place. The differences between traits show mostly on weapons and not on armour and affect only the top end game when you try for score runs or HM achievements. Whether you do 15k or 17k in Fungal Grotto is inconsequential.

SaintSubwayy

Feanor wrote: »

No matter the definition, it simply makes no sense to get riled up about the transmutation system if you don't need perfect traits in the first place. The differences between traits show mostly on weapons and not on armour and affect only the top end game when you try for score runs or HM achievements. Whether you do 15k or 17k in Fungal Grotto is inconsequential.

I guess thats the problem most "casual" players dont get.
Lets make a simple Example here:

Casual Player Stam DK: 5x TFS 5x HR 2x Mephala all Divine, Weapons Ifused and Sharp and he does ~15-20k DPS
Casual Player Stam DK: 5x TFS 5x HR 2x Mephala all in Various Traits, Weapons Ifused and Sharp and he'll deal probably 13-18k DPS

So your Perfect Traits give you ~2k DPS

If you compare this to a "elitist" player the difference would be more arround 5k since he's better in his Rotation, Boss mechanics ect.

Overall you can say the Transmutationsystem is more directed towards the Endagme community, where the Perfect Traits gets used more efficiently.

STEVIL

Feanor wrote: »

Irfind wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I'm still baffled why casuals or RPers would need to retrait...and as @Lieblingsjunge has said, just run Fungal Grotto or Selene's Web. Takes 15 minutes each.

Hm maybe i want my monster helm Kragh from the golden Vendor in divine ? Casual players also try to improve their gear ?

That 0.23% DPS increase will sure take the casuals to a whole new level. And I'm no pro gamer myself, before you label me as elitist filth.

Whether or not you are a pro gamer or not really is a different thing than that other, right? A sense of entitlement does not have to be deserved to exist.

Speaking so certainly about how other players don't need this or that because of their preferences in gameplay sounds quite elitist to me.

they key is that this is a game and it is for fun for many and yes while the abc% may not make a difference in a delve run it sure might make a difference in how the player feels about his stuff.

And the key point to it is that kind of deflates the platform of this sideways objection you seem to have is - you are right that it does not make a difference whether the casual has precise or sharpened or even charged as far as anybody else being impacted.

So what's the harm in it?

Its not like those little casuals are gonna jump to the leaderboard driving "deserving" trial runners off the top ten or slam into PVP slaying all they encounter with ease.

To put it bluntly, if we apply the same "do you need it" to every single acquisition of anything somebody might want or enjoy having in this game and slap a major grind on it if it is not a "need" then a lot of things would be a lot less fun.

So when one eyes "rewards for the grinding deserved" perhaps the better question to ask is not how quickly casuals deserve to get sharpened but is instead why is sharpened,vs precise or infused such a big difference that it in any way overshadows the sets gained from the "grinds of the deserved?"

* All this takes as an assumption the whole notion of more play earning better stuff.

luen79rwb17_ESO

I think 40 is a fair number, especially with all sources available for it. If you play content regularly you'll eventually get that ammount of crystals.

Juhasow

Mojmir wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

when it goes live, its needs to be 20 crystals or below and guaranteed drop every time. we didn't ask for more grinding

And we dont get more grinding. We'll be doing everything what we've been doing counting on luck to get BiS items but if that luck wont happen then we'll be able to retrait spom,e weakes items we recived in the procces of farming BiS.

Retraiting isnt new way to get BiS , it's new way to assist getting it if You had not enough luck from loot.

so in other words, grinding. we aalready ran the content to get an item, why should we have to run 40 more times? again, this isnt what we asked for.

No it's not grinding itself .It's improvement to grinding , additional currency during grinding and other activities that will help You get adventage over totally RNG based grind.

If You want BiS item then You're grinding for it. If You fail to get that item there will be now always alternative option light at the end of the tunnel which was not present before. This improves itemization ibcredibly well while not making it brainlesly easy which at the end could just destroy the game.

This is excatly what I and many other people asked for. Control over RNG but without brainlesly easy items aquiring. Getting BiS items will still require effort but now You can be sure You'll get them one way or another.

rhapsodious

The way I think of it is that ZOS has an idea of how long they want you to play to get a particular item. Of course, RNG is all over the place, so while someone could pick up an infused IA inferno in their very first Deshaan pug, other people have ran Craglorn trials to the point where they've memorized every piece of dialogue complete with inflection and still only have a single IA inferno, and it's charged.

So let's say you only have time during the week to run non-DLC pledges on your only character. On weekends, you get in that weekly coffer run for a trial, and you have time to do a veteran random dungeon. That's about five a week, assuming nothing drops off the final boss, with very light play comparatively speaking. So two months to transmute your charged IA inferno to infused. But this isn't a very efficient scenario.

If, however, you spam FG1 and it takes 15 minutes per run when it's the pledge and you have multiple characters, you can get 4-8 in an hour. If you do that with the other easy pledges (COA1, Darkshade 1, etc.) you'll be almost done in a week.

It's a light at the end of the tunnel for those who are screwed by RNG, and it's an effort in = reward out situation.

In the meantime, we're all making do with the gear we have, that much is true. God knows how many keys I've used to still not have a medium divines Veli shoulder. But unless you've been rolling a 20 on luck the whole time, there's a fair amount of grinding you have to do for the gear you want regardless. The transmute system just caps the amount of grinding you have to do.

Juhasow

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

No matter the definition, it simply makes no sense to get riled up about the transmutation system if you don't need perfect traits in the first place. The differences between traits show mostly on weapons and not on armour and affect only the top end game when you try for score runs or HM achievements. Whether you do 15k or 17k in Fungal Grotto is inconsequential.

I guess thats the problem most "casual" players dont get.
Lets make a simple Example here:

Casual Player Stam DK: 5x TFS 5x HR 2x Mephala all Divine, Weapons Ifused and Sharp and he does ~15-20k DPS
Casual Player Stam DK: 5x TFS 5x HR 2x Mephala all in Various Traits, Weapons Ifused and Sharp and he'll deal probably 13-18k DPS

So your Perfect Traits give you ~2k DPS

If you compare this to a "elitist" player the difference would be more arround 5k since he's better in his Rotation, Boss mechanics ect.

Overall you can say the Transmutationsystem is more directed towards the Endagme community, where the Perfect Traits gets used more efficiently.

Warrior/Apprentice mundus gives 238 wep/spell dmg , with 7 gold divines it gives 362 wep or spell dmg. You want to tell me that additional 120 wep or spell dmg increases DPS by 2k for casuals and 5k for elitists ?

Lover mundus gives 2,7k penetration with 7 gold divines 4,2k penetration. You want to tell me that 1,5k penetration will increase DPS by 2k for casual and 5k for elitists ?

I think You overreacted here a little.

SaintSubwayy

Juhasow wrote: »

Warrior/Apprentice mundus gives 238 wep/spell dmg , with 7 gold divines it gives 362 wep or spell dmg. You want to tell me that additional 120 wep or spell dmg increases DPS by 2k for casuals and 5k for elitists ?

Lover mundus gives 2,7k penetration with 7 gold divines 4,2k penetration. You want to tell me that 1,5k penetration will increase DPS by 2k for casual and 5k for elitists ?

I think You overreacted here a little.

Maybe its a bit high jeah
dont forget they get Amplified with minor and major Brutality ^^

still the idea behind stays the same, "elitist" players will get more out of perfect traits than casuals thats a fact

Derra

Izaki wrote: »

I'm kinda disappointed cause I already have all the weapons in all the BiS traits... What do I do now? Like the Transmute system is around, but I can't even use it... I guess I'll just farm for a crappy weapon and then transmute it just to be cool.

Obviously you start getting nirn on weapons that previously could not drop with that trait.

Mojmir

Juhasow wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

when it goes live, its needs to be 20 crystals or below and guaranteed drop every time. we didn't ask for more grinding

And we dont get more grinding. We'll be doing everything what we've been doing counting on luck to get BiS items but if that luck wont happen then we'll be able to retrait spom,e weakes items we recived in the procces of farming BiS.

Retraiting isnt new way to get BiS , it's new way to assist getting it if You had not enough luck from loot.

so in other words, grinding. we aalready ran the content to get an item, why should we have to run 40 more times? again, this isnt what we asked for.

No it's not grinding itself .It's improvement to grinding , additional currency during grinding and other activities that will help You get adventage over totally RNG based grind.

If You want BiS item then You're grinding for it. If You fail to get that item there will be now always alternative option light at the end of the tunnel which was not present before. This improves itemization ibcredibly well while not making it brainlesly easy which at the end could just destroy the game.

This is excatly what I and many other people asked for. Control over RNG but without brainlesly easy items aquiring. Getting BiS items will still require effort but now You can be sure You'll get them one way or another.

when this goes live, it wont be a "sure thing" 1 crystal every time you run the content, it will be "occasionally" which translates to more RNG. add on top of that youll need 40 of these crystals. finally, you state this is exactly what you asked for, show me where we(because im part of that "we") asked for more RNG?

Subversus

laced wrote: »

Why does this remind me of the vendors they put in SWTOR?

I mean, literally the same move, just different name.

Btw, @ZOS_GinaBruno - Everyone hated that system, and still hates that system.

While that is true, that system has improved drastically since launch. It went from being a mandatory gearing system to being what they are trying to do with Transmutation: something on the side. Funnily enough, SWTOR went from grinding hell back to being better than ESO in that perspective.

Juhasow

Mojmir wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

when it goes live, its needs to be 20 crystals or below and guaranteed drop every time. we didn't ask for more grinding

And we dont get more grinding. We'll be doing everything what we've been doing counting on luck to get BiS items but if that luck wont happen then we'll be able to retrait spom,e weakes items we recived in the procces of farming BiS.

Retraiting isnt new way to get BiS , it's new way to assist getting it if You had not enough luck from loot.

so in other words, grinding. we aalready ran the content to get an item, why should we have to run 40 more times? again, this isnt what we asked for.

No it's not grinding itself .It's improvement to grinding , additional currency during grinding and other activities that will help You get adventage over totally RNG based grind.

If You want BiS item then You're grinding for it. If You fail to get that item there will be now always alternative option light at the end of the tunnel which was not present before. This improves itemization ibcredibly well while not making it brainlesly easy which at the end could just destroy the game.

This is excatly what I and many other people asked for. Control over RNG but without brainlesly easy items aquiring. Getting BiS items will still require effort but now You can be sure You'll get them one way or another.

when this goes live, it wont be a "sure thing" 1 crystal every time you run the content, it will be "occasionally" which translates to more RNG. add on top of that youll need 40 of these crystals. finally, you state this is exactly what you asked for, show me where we(because im part of that "we") asked for more RNG?

Atm this activities have 100% chance to give You crystal or crystals (some give multiple amount)

Veteran Undaunted Pledge
Your first completed random Veteran dungeon through the Grouping Tool per day
Trial Weekly Quests
Leaderboards (AvA, Trials, Arenas, and Battlegrounds)
End of Campaign Rewards (both 7-day and 30-day)
Veteran Maelstrom Arena
Veteran Dragonstar Arena

and others activities will give You them occasionaly.

Your RNG whining doesnt look too serious for me. Get more informations next time before You come to discussion.