CyrusArya wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

I didn't expect to need to put out a flashing neon sign saying pvp, I think the skills mentioned express that. Here are the contexts:

Highest mobility: sorc
Burst: sorc/warden/nb
Survivability: sorc shields, easily up to par when running resto ult, DKs tied, but lose damage, sorcy pie doesn't.
Ccs: Used to be fear, but DK and sorc both have root+unblockable cc (not DK prior because break via damage) beneficial in group situations. Negate too, if that counts.

Sorc is effectivly one of the best in pvp, with top cc, damage, ignoring roots with streaks. The only thing they aren't best in is pvp group healing.

Bgs too for obvious reasons, but you already know

I'll admit one thing, stamina DK outdoes magsorc for 1vx tank, but nothing else, even then stamDK is avoidable as ccs are expensive and they are slow/weak without Seventh/fury.

Oh, and yeah, streaks counters don't factor in until late, goes through roots, ball absorbs some stuff, gap closers sometimes can't catch up to stun/damage.

My point would be that there is no universal context in PvP. If a class were over performing in all aspects, we'd have an issue. But the balance of power is very tight between all classes, and has been for a while. Every class is extremely powerful in its own niche.

Let me answer your points 1:1.

Highest mobility: Sorc has good mobility, but so does anything stamina. Have you ever seen a stamina build in medium armor run around on speed pots? They cover ground faster and at less cost than a streaking sorc. Streak is directly countered by gap closers, where again the resource burn is in favor of those chasing. And finally, while half of mobility is creating distance, the other half of mobility is maintaining momentum i.e. countering snares. A snared sorc will not go far with streak so long as even one competent enemy is on them. All things considered, a stam templar or stam sorc will have just as good mobility as a sorc. And if you consider 3D mobility and juking people, shades is just as powerful as streak if used right.

Burst: Sorc burst is good, but it is extremely predictable. Nightblade (both magicka and stamina) is far more lethal. I will say, sorc is more accessible and easier to play. Night blade has a higher skill floor, but also a higher skill ceiling. When speaking absolutes and the dynamics of classes when played the way they are meant to be, nightblade burst in PvP is far superior. Simply quicker, harder hitting, less predictable, and accompanied with more buffs and debuffs than the sorc.

Survivability: 1v1, shields are great. When outnumbered or when being focused, they are one of the weaker mechanics. I find myself astoundingly more survivable when under focus as a heavy armor stamina build than as a sorc. I could elaborate but you won't really get it until you pick up a mag sorc yourself and duel a strong stamina player or fight an intense 1vX against opponents with lethal damage. Against pugs, indeed sorc seems invincible. All it takes is one good stam build in that "X" part of the equation to make sorc subpar in outnumbered PvP.

These are all topics relevant to small scale. In large scale pvp, sorc is outperformed by nightblade bombers and is mostly useful for the negate.

Every class is extremely powerful in their niche. If you find this statement hard to believe, chances are you are not playing your class right or have not seen it played right. So what is sorc's niche? Its the absolute best solo roamer. Dipping in and out of fights and blowing *** up. But when you have to buckle down and fight? I'd take any stam class over magicka sorc. And that precisely is why I main a stamplar and stamblade these days.

You can keep complaining and whining, but by now it should be abundantly clear that the devs also agree with and acknowledge the balance of power that exists that I have described here. Otherwise, sorcs woulda been nerfed a long time ago. There isn't some grand conspiracy here, yall just need to learn to play.

BohnT wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

All the hate against Sorcs around here is seeded in irrationality...i never seen anything like it a game before.

This staff? Honestly, what sounds strong on paper does not always translate out to be strong in practice.

Lets do some comparison here shall we?

Concentrated Force (Perfected)

Force Shock always applies the Burning, Concussion, and Chilled status effects. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds per enemy.

Disciplined Slash (Perfected)

When you deal damage with Reverse Slash, you generate up to 15 Ultimate based on how much execute bonus damage it dealt.


Disciplined Slash looks stronger on paper then Concentrated Force. Put this on , say a Warden, with Major Heroism + Bloodspawn + Battle Frenzy and your looking at absolutely stupidly broken OP Ultimate Gain in open world pvp. Concentrated Force won't have anything on this.

Its far more then Concentrated Force that looks to be a wee bit broken.

That Thing is unbalanced too but the changes to rune prison along with the asylum destro is op aswell and both Things Need to be addressed

Can´t see the destro staff overperforming compared to other offensive weapon choices honestly.

Agreed on rune prison. The offensive morph seems over the top.

What you drop to fit it on your bar, @Derra

with your Setup i'd drop mage light in a second, the extra burst is not Close to be as good as a cc that will make all your burst hit your target without the opportunity to block it for the target.
even t if you'd empower all your frags, a blocked empowered frag deals less dmg than an unblocked one that isn't empowerd

SanTii.92 wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

All the hate against Sorcs around here is seeded in irrationality...i never seen anything like it a game before.

This staff? Honestly, what sounds strong on paper does not always translate out to be strong in practice.

Lets do some comparison here shall we?

Concentrated Force (Perfected)

Force Shock always applies the Burning, Concussion, and Chilled status effects. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds per enemy.

Disciplined Slash (Perfected)

When you deal damage with Reverse Slash, you generate up to 15 Ultimate based on how much execute bonus damage it dealt.


Disciplined Slash looks stronger on paper then Concentrated Force. Put this on , say a Warden, with Major Heroism + Bloodspawn + Battle Frenzy and your looking at absolutely stupidly broken OP Ultimate Gain in open world pvp. Concentrated Force won't have anything on this.

Its far more then Concentrated Force that looks to be a wee bit broken.

That Thing is unbalanced too but the changes to rune prison along with the asylum destro is op aswell and both Things Need to be addressed

Can´t see the destro staff overperforming compared to other offensive weapon choices honestly.

Agreed on rune prison. The offensive morph seems over the top.

What you drop to fit it on your bar, @Derra

with your Setup i'd drop mage light in a second, the extra burst is not Close to be as good as a cc that will make all your burst hit your target without the opportunity to block it for the target.
even t if you'd empower all your frags, a blocked empowered frag deals less dmg than an unblocked one that isn't empowerd

The new cc will only be used against perma blockers or as a stamina burn, but won't work to setup a combo since you can cc break and dodge/block before the frag hits to you.

SodanTok wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

All the hate against Sorcs around here is seeded in irrationality...i never seen anything like it a game before.

This staff? Honestly, what sounds strong on paper does not always translate out to be strong in practice.

Lets do some comparison here shall we?

Concentrated Force (Perfected)

Force Shock always applies the Burning, Concussion, and Chilled status effects. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds per enemy.

Disciplined Slash (Perfected)

When you deal damage with Reverse Slash, you generate up to 15 Ultimate based on how much execute bonus damage it dealt.


Disciplined Slash looks stronger on paper then Concentrated Force. Put this on , say a Warden, with Major Heroism + Bloodspawn + Battle Frenzy and your looking at absolutely stupidly broken OP Ultimate Gain in open world pvp. Concentrated Force won't have anything on this.

Its far more then Concentrated Force that looks to be a wee bit broken.

That Thing is unbalanced too but the changes to rune prison along with the asylum destro is op aswell and both Things Need to be addressed

Can´t see the destro staff overperforming compared to other offensive weapon choices honestly.

Agreed on rune prison. The offensive morph seems over the top.

What you drop to fit it on your bar, @Derra

with your Setup i'd drop mage light in a second, the extra burst is not Close to be as good as a cc that will make all your burst hit your target without the opportunity to block it for the target.
even t if you'd empower all your frags, a blocked empowered frag deals less dmg than an unblocked one that isn't empowerd

The new cc will only be used against perma blockers or as a stamina burn, but won't work to setup a combo since you can cc break and dodge/block before the frag hits to you.

So use the cc slightly later? Not to forget the servers half the time arent even capable of letting you break free and dodge roll in that time it takes for frag to arrive.

pieratsos wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Elder Sorcs Online

• Cheaper ultimates
• Cheaper use of both magicka/stamina skills
• Top tier sustain
• Shield stacking
• Passive execute
• Active AOE execute
• Best mobility in game

I mean, wtf Zos? Is there any point playing any other class?

Lol, cheaper ults? Yeah and you know how often they get used on actual sorc ults negate aside?

Top tier sustain? Not from endless fury, power stone, and regen passive alone. I'm all for nerfing Dark Deal to 2 sec cast time.

Any class can perform in PvP.

And since we're talking about magsorcs (we're always talking about magsorcs unfortunately) best mobility in the game???

Oh and 2 of your points are actually the same point stretched into two for maximum whinging potential.

How clueless you sound right now.
You want to say Sorc does not have passive that makes all ultimates cheaper than same used by other classes? How much does it cost to cast fiery rage, compared to DK casting it?
You want to say Sorc does not have top tier sustain? Wow, just wow.
Any class can perform in PvP? Sure, m8, but can any class stand 28+ meters away from other groups and AOE execute spam like there is no tomorrow?
On top of everything you wrote, you want to deny that sorc have best mobility in game. Boundless storm - 6 sec major expedition, while providing major resistances and damaging everything around caster. And bolt/streak, non target spammable
engage/escape mechanics... Who on Nirn have better mobility than that? Oh, yeah, I know. A stamina sorcerer Orsimer.

You know you are clueless when you refer to streak as a spammable

ParaNostram wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

The new staff is blatantly overpowered in PVP. 100% uptime on 3 major status effects? That's absolutely ridiculous.

The problem isn't sorcs though everyone apparently likes to think if it is physically possible for a sorc to use something then oh man that's just ZOS making this only for sorcs yup ZOS just loves their sorcs and plays nothing but yup yup.

To respond to OP... Streak is the only ability with a mechanic build into it to limit it's spammability. Shield stacking specifically got a 50% shield potency nerf as well as nerfed to 6 seconds while being rather expensive. You're beating a dead horse.

Dodge roll has the same cost penalty while having lots of counters.
Blocking got its cost increased by 50%.
Damage and healing were also reduced by 50%

Streak is so strong to get away because it brings you out of range and in the 4 seconds where you are far enough to not be attacked you can use dark deal to get enough magicka back to streak away again, repeat this and all heavy armor specs can't follow you and every spec that hunts you loses enough resources to be easily killed afterwards

Dodge roll - a mechanic available to anyone.
Blocking - a mechanic available to anyone.
Damage and healing - something every build does.

Streak is the only class specific ability with an increasing cost mechanic built into it. Do you want to counter people streaking off and dark dealing? Simple. If you're a stamina user, you *gasp* charge onto them and then interrupt the 1 second long channel. Result of that streak then? They just spent magicka and time and you're still on them.

It's all about actually playing with an inkling of skill and intelligence. A skilled sorc knows when to use streak and how to get away using it given how to streak more than once is a considerable magicka cost. Is it a useful skill? Yes it is. Does it have it's drawbacks? Yes it does. Imagine if some other ability had an anti-spam cost increasing mechanic. Imagine if dark cloak got that. It would be ridiculous.

You want to beat a sorc? You beat them the same way you beat anyone else - positioning, playing smart, timing your burst, punishing their mistakes, and knowing what their tool kit is. I kill sorcs all the time on all of my characters yet people act like it's some easy I win button because they got hit by a few big sorc bursts. Good lord, mag wardens have an easier to set up instant kill burst. Nightblades of any sort have some of the best burst potential in the game. DKs can just melt people if played right. Templars still drop a house on you and punish you for being in their house. Just stop this nonsense.

I swear ya'll won't be happy until sorcs go back to being just negates in PvP, so useless at everything but that negate ult is nice.

Eirella wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

The new staff is blatantly overpowered in PVP. 100% uptime on 3 major status effects? That's absolutely ridiculous.

The problem isn't sorcs though everyone apparently likes to think if it is physically possible for a sorc to use something then oh man that's just ZOS making this only for sorcs yup ZOS just loves their sorcs and plays nothing but yup yup.

To respond to OP... Streak is the only ability with a mechanic build into it to limit it's spammability. Shield stacking specifically got a 50% shield potency nerf as well as nerfed to 6 seconds while being rather expensive. You're beating a dead horse.

Dodge roll has the same cost penalty while having lots of counters.
Blocking got its cost increased by 50%.
Damage and healing were also reduced by 50%

Streak is so strong to get away because it brings you out of range and in the 4 seconds where you are far enough to not be attacked you can use dark deal to get enough magicka back to streak away again, repeat this and all heavy armor specs can't follow you and every spec that hunts you loses enough resources to be easily killed afterwards

Dodge roll - a mechanic available to anyone.
Blocking - a mechanic available to anyone.
Damage and healing - something every build does.

Streak is the only class specific ability with an increasing cost mechanic built into it. Do you want to counter people streaking off and dark dealing? Simple. If you're a stamina user, you *gasp* charge onto them and then interrupt the 1 second long channel. Result of that streak then? They just spent magicka and time and you're still on them.

It's all about actually playing with an inkling of skill and intelligence. A skilled sorc knows when to use streak and how to get away using it given how to streak more than once is a considerable magicka cost. Is it a useful skill? Yes it is. Does it have it's drawbacks? Yes it does. Imagine if some other ability had an anti-spam cost increasing mechanic. Imagine if dark cloak got that. It would be ridiculous.

You want to beat a sorc? You beat them the same way you beat anyone else - positioning, playing smart, timing your burst, punishing their mistakes, and knowing what their tool kit is. I kill sorcs all the time on all of my characters yet people act like it's some easy I win button because they got hit by a few big sorc bursts. Good lord, mag wardens have an easier to set up instant kill burst. Nightblades of any sort have some of the best burst potential in the game. DKs can just melt people if played right. Templars still drop a house on you and punish you for being in their house. Just stop this nonsense.

I swear ya'll won't be happy until sorcs go back to being just negates in PvP, so useless at everything but that negate ult is nice.

Well said.
And lol at delusional people saying the devs have a class bias.

Feanor wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

I swear ya'll won't be happy until sorcs go back to being just negates in PvP, so useless at everything but that negate ult is nice.

No. The negate and therefore Sorcs would still be OP according to the forum.

Stamden wrote: »

Sorcs getting the most love every patch; what else is new?

This happens every time. ZoS Balance team has had a huge bias toward Sorcs since the game's release.

Eirella wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

The new staff is blatantly overpowered in PVP. 100% uptime on 3 major status effects? That's absolutely ridiculous.

The problem isn't sorcs though everyone apparently likes to think if it is physically possible for a sorc to use something then oh man that's just ZOS making this only for sorcs yup ZOS just loves their sorcs and plays nothing but yup yup.

To respond to OP... Streak is the only ability with a mechanic build into it to limit it's spammability. Shield stacking specifically got a 50% shield potency nerf as well as nerfed to 6 seconds while being rather expensive. You're beating a dead horse.

Dodge roll has the same cost penalty while having lots of counters.
Blocking got its cost increased by 50%.
Damage and healing were also reduced by 50%

Streak is so strong to get away because it brings you out of range and in the 4 seconds where you are far enough to not be attacked you can use dark deal to get enough magicka back to streak away again, repeat this and all heavy armor specs can't follow you and every spec that hunts you loses enough resources to be easily killed afterwards

Dodge roll - a mechanic available to anyone.
Blocking - a mechanic available to anyone.
Damage and healing - something every build does.

Streak is the only class specific ability with an increasing cost mechanic built into it. Do you want to counter people streaking off and dark dealing? Simple. If you're a stamina user, you *gasp* charge onto them and then interrupt the 1 second long channel. Result of that streak then? They just spent magicka and time and you're still on them.

It's all about actually playing with an inkling of skill and intelligence. A skilled sorc knows when to use streak and how to get away using it given how to streak more than once is a considerable magicka cost. Is it a useful skill? Yes it is. Does it have it's drawbacks? Yes it does. Imagine if some other ability had an anti-spam cost increasing mechanic. Imagine if dark cloak got that. It would be ridiculous.

You want to beat a sorc? You beat them the same way you beat anyone else - positioning, playing smart, timing your burst, punishing their mistakes, and knowing what their tool kit is. I kill sorcs all the time on all of my characters yet people act like it's some easy I win button because they got hit by a few big sorc bursts. Good lord, mag wardens have an easier to set up instant kill burst. Nightblades of any sort have some of the best burst potential in the game. DKs can just melt people if played right. Templars still drop a house on you and punish you for being in their house. Just stop this nonsense.

I swear ya'll won't be happy until sorcs go back to being just negates in PvP, so useless at everything but that negate ult is nice.

Well said.
And lol at delusional people saying the devs have a class bias.

ak_pvp wrote: »

Eirella wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

The new staff is blatantly overpowered in PVP. 100% uptime on 3 major status effects? That's absolutely ridiculous.

The problem isn't sorcs though everyone apparently likes to think if it is physically possible for a sorc to use something then oh man that's just ZOS making this only for sorcs yup ZOS just loves their sorcs and plays nothing but yup yup.

To respond to OP... Streak is the only ability with a mechanic build into it to limit it's spammability. Shield stacking specifically got a 50% shield potency nerf as well as nerfed to 6 seconds while being rather expensive. You're beating a dead horse.

Dodge roll has the same cost penalty while having lots of counters.
Blocking got its cost increased by 50%.
Damage and healing were also reduced by 50%

Streak is so strong to get away because it brings you out of range and in the 4 seconds where you are far enough to not be attacked you can use dark deal to get enough magicka back to streak away again, repeat this and all heavy armor specs can't follow you and every spec that hunts you loses enough resources to be easily killed afterwards

Dodge roll - a mechanic available to anyone.
Blocking - a mechanic available to anyone.
Damage and healing - something every build does.

Streak is the only class specific ability with an increasing cost mechanic built into it. Do you want to counter people streaking off and dark dealing? Simple. If you're a stamina user, you *gasp* charge onto them and then interrupt the 1 second long channel. Result of that streak then? They just spent magicka and time and you're still on them.

It's all about actually playing with an inkling of skill and intelligence. A skilled sorc knows when to use streak and how to get away using it given how to streak more than once is a considerable magicka cost. Is it a useful skill? Yes it is. Does it have it's drawbacks? Yes it does. Imagine if some other ability had an anti-spam cost increasing mechanic. Imagine if dark cloak got that. It would be ridiculous.

You want to beat a sorc? You beat them the same way you beat anyone else - positioning, playing smart, timing your burst, punishing their mistakes, and knowing what their tool kit is. I kill sorcs all the time on all of my characters yet people act like it's some easy I win button because they got hit by a few big sorc bursts. Good lord, mag wardens have an easier to set up instant kill burst. Nightblades of any sort have some of the best burst potential in the game. DKs can just melt people if played right. Templars still drop a house on you and punish you for being in their house. Just stop this nonsense.

I swear ya'll won't be happy until sorcs go back to being just negates in PvP, so useless at everything but that negate ult is nice.

Well said.
And lol at delusional people saying the devs have a class bias.

Lel at delusional people who can't admit their class is getting over buffed and want to play ez mode.

Koensol wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

Eirella wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

The new staff is blatantly overpowered in PVP. 100% uptime on 3 major status effects? That's absolutely ridiculous.

The problem isn't sorcs though everyone apparently likes to think if it is physically possible for a sorc to use something then oh man that's just ZOS making this only for sorcs yup ZOS just loves their sorcs and plays nothing but yup yup.

To respond to OP... Streak is the only ability with a mechanic build into it to limit it's spammability. Shield stacking specifically got a 50% shield potency nerf as well as nerfed to 6 seconds while being rather expensive. You're beating a dead horse.

Dodge roll has the same cost penalty while having lots of counters.
Blocking got its cost increased by 50%.
Damage and healing were also reduced by 50%

Streak is so strong to get away because it brings you out of range and in the 4 seconds where you are far enough to not be attacked you can use dark deal to get enough magicka back to streak away again, repeat this and all heavy armor specs can't follow you and every spec that hunts you loses enough resources to be easily killed afterwards

Dodge roll - a mechanic available to anyone.
Blocking - a mechanic available to anyone.
Damage and healing - something every build does.

Streak is the only class specific ability with an increasing cost mechanic built into it. Do you want to counter people streaking off and dark dealing? Simple. If you're a stamina user, you *gasp* charge onto them and then interrupt the 1 second long channel. Result of that streak then? They just spent magicka and time and you're still on them.

It's all about actually playing with an inkling of skill and intelligence. A skilled sorc knows when to use streak and how to get away using it given how to streak more than once is a considerable magicka cost. Is it a useful skill? Yes it is. Does it have it's drawbacks? Yes it does. Imagine if some other ability had an anti-spam cost increasing mechanic. Imagine if dark cloak got that. It would be ridiculous.

You want to beat a sorc? You beat them the same way you beat anyone else - positioning, playing smart, timing your burst, punishing their mistakes, and knowing what their tool kit is. I kill sorcs all the time on all of my characters yet people act like it's some easy I win button because they got hit by a few big sorc bursts. Good lord, mag wardens have an easier to set up instant kill burst. Nightblades of any sort have some of the best burst potential in the game. DKs can just melt people if played right. Templars still drop a house on you and punish you for being in their house. Just stop this nonsense.

I swear ya'll won't be happy until sorcs go back to being just negates in PvP, so useless at everything but that negate ult is nice.

Well said.
And lol at delusional people saying the devs have a class bias.

I mean most of this is literally starting over a staff that anyone can use adjusting an ability that anyone can use. It boggles my mind!

Feanor wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

I swear ya'll won't be happy until sorcs go back to being just negates in PvP, so useless at everything but that negate ult is nice.

No. The negate and therefore Sorcs would still be OP according to the forum.

I know right?

Have you ever heard of the word context?

Brrrofski wrote: »

To be clear, the only thing I'm against when it comes to sorc is that new staff. 99% of it's use in PvP will be by a sorc. Anyone can use it, but nobody does. Every destro resto sorc (90% of them) use it. Like 5% of the rest of magica population use it. It is a huge sorc buff.

Yes, mag sorc is strong in PvP. But it isn't good mode. That new staff will be game breaking. It cannot go live like it.