Vizikul wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

Remember that sometimes you can ask nicely of a healer to use ele drain and the group will kick you for "telling them how to play".

Projection.

People have to realize that "slotting something" isn't that easy. It may break an entire build or rotation. I don't accept those requests either.

Some healers focus on healing and not buffing (and imho they're right). Your PUG healer doesn't have to be a buffing machine and there should be nothing to ask or complain about as long as the group is kept alive.

Want ele drain ? Slot it yourself...

Your a bad healer

You are not in the position to decide whether another player is good or bad at its roll, especially on the forum.

Not willing to accommodate for your teams success will make you bad at any and all roles they try. If they really want to have such an attitude it's ok but they will only progress to a certain point in the game. Wich is struggling to complete 4man content.

Linaleah wrote: »

no. I'm so PETTY as I don't pug at all.

That's ... exactly opposite what you said previously, but OK. I do share your frustration with orbs, though I think I'm getting a little better at aiming them.

It's not so much about meta, or rigidity, or performing perfectly or whatever imo (I certainly don't). It's about having a modicum of respect for other people's time and about being a good team player. Not doing some incredibly simple things that increase group efficiency? That's being a bad team player. The "rigid" people are generally more respectful of other people's time than the "play how you want" crowd.

I have some builds I derp around on that aren't efficient but I just have fun with them. But I do that on my own time, not when I'm with others and can run something better. /2 coppers

By the way, using the word "literally" doesn't actual make something so. The OP didn't demand anything at all, he "literally" requested, lol.

Dantaria wrote: »

PWAHAHAHAHA

You know, the irony in all this is honestly overwhelming.

Because all of you, guys, forget one single thing: nor "elitists", nor actual elite truly require Ele Drain. Actually, nor elitists, nor actual elite truly require healer in dungeon. It's just more convenient.

You refuse to slot Ele Drain? Pffffff. My cookie-cutter HA petsorc build makes me completely autonomous. Don't even for a second think that I will slot Ele Drain myself. With my DPS being 30k+ self-buffed I simply don't need to: everything will die before I will feel any sustain issues. And if tank has Ransack, so I underpenetrate for 5k... Who cares? Okay, my DPS will in absolute worst case scenario be ~25k. Pffff. Still enough.

But ohhhhh, does this takes me back. Back to the time when I wasn't any good, back to the time when I learned, was low-cp and honestly struggled with resources in Homestead. Oh yes, I did ask for Ele Drain back then. And being refused s**ked.

So do remember. All of you with this attitude:

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Guess why so many people at endgame report to be so bored (and blame it on ZOS) ? Because they all play the same way and impose that way onto others. In the end everyone play the same things, the same builds, the same rotations, the same strategies. That's why people get bored. If you don't have a healer with ele drain, then compensate some other way, think out the box, be creative, adapt. That way you won't get bored so quickly.

do not actually hurt us. You do not hurt end-game players. You hurt people just like you.

You hurt low-cps, who honestly can't sustain on their own in Morrowind. You hurt people with casual builds. You hurt people with suboptimal race, suboptimal gear, suboptimal bar setups - you hurt those who also "doesn't want to sacrifice their playstyle".

End-game players? Please. We solo these dungeons. Do you honestly believe your petty refusal to listen to advice from experienced players will make any difference for us?

No. But for people exactly like you - it would. And isn't that ridiculously ironic?

Better then I could have said it. Agree 100 percent.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

Remember that sometimes you can ask nicely of a healer to use ele drain and the group will kick you for "telling them how to play".

Projection.

People have to realize that "slotting something" isn't that easy. It may break an entire build or rotation. I don't accept those requests either.

Some healers focus on healing and not buffing (and imho they're right). Your PUG healer doesn't have to be a buffing machine and there should be nothing to ask or complain about as long as the group is kept alive.

Want ele drain ? Slot it yourself...

Healers *should* be running ele drain, not DPS... you guys arguing that people should set bars up how they want is fine, but if you're playing a healer your role is to SUPPORT your teammates, by not only healing but helping them to sustain, kill things and buff them up, not just give them heals.. and if you DON'T want to do those things, then don't be a support role and go be a DPS and let someone else who actually can do a decent job heal.. don't let the rest of your team down just because you don't want to be an optimal support role.

Jeremy wrote: »

S1L3NTL4DY420 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

Remember that sometimes you can ask nicely of a healer to use ele drain and the group will kick you for "telling them how to play".

Projection.

People have to realize that "slotting something" isn't that easy. It may break an entire build or rotation. I don't accept those requests either.

Some healers focus on healing and not buffing (and imho they're right). Your PUG healer doesn't have to be a buffing machine and there should be nothing to ask or complain about as long as the group is kept alive.

Want ele drain ? Slot it yourself...

Healers *should* be running ele drain, not DPS... you guys arguing that people should set bars up how they want is fine, but if you're playing a healer your role is to SUPPORT your teammates, by not only healing but helping them to sustain, kill things and buff them up, not just give them heals.. and if you DON'T want to do those things, then don't be a support role and go be a DPS and let someone else who actually can do a decent job heal.. don't let the rest of your team down just because you don't want to be an optimal support role.

I disagree. A healer's job is to heal. Elemental Drain is optional - and there are plenty of effective builds out there that don't use it.

A healer's job is absolutely not just to heal.

If that's all you're doing, you aren't providing much value to the group.

Ruse wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

no. I'm so PETTY as I don't pug at all.

That's ... exactly opposite what you said previously, but OK. I do share your frustration with orbs, though I think I'm getting a little better at aiming them.

It's not so much about meta, or rigidity, or performing perfectly or whatever imo (I certainly don't). It's about having a modicum of respect for other people's time and about being a good team player. Not doing some incredibly simple things that increase group efficiency? That's being a bad team player. The "rigid" people are generally more respectful of other people's time than the "play how you want" crowd.

I have some builds I derp around on that aren't efficient but I just have fun with them. But I do that on my own time, not when I'm with others and can run something better. /2 coppers

By the way, using the word "literally" doesn't actual make something so. The OP didn't demand anything at all, he "literally" requested, lol.

no, I pretty much said "this is why I don't ever pug.

my using the word Petty was me quoting the person replying to me and attempting to be ironic.

that said. not everyone is capable of top performance. which is why there are varying difficulties, even when it comes to vet, which is why there are achievements that require higher end performance for those that can output it, while still allowing more casual players to complete content. slower. not without deaths. but still complete it.

you.

cannot

expect

let alone demand

random people you are thrown into a pug with to perform at the level you think they should be performing, and you cannot expect them to do what I do and give up on pugging all together. you cannot expect them not to want to experience variety of content this game has to offer. you are NOT a gatekeeper of group content. unless you are leading your own dungeon/trials group? you don't get to decide that someone must be this skilled to be allowed to join.

you cannot expect or count on them to play in specific ways with specific specs, using specific gear.

and last but not least... your definition of "better" is not someone else's definition of better. for you better seems to be efficiently. for someone else - being able to do something while still enjoying their less them meta builds they cannot perform with anyways.

there was a thread on these forums sometime ago, where OP stated that people should NOT religiously follow youtuber's meta builds and that person was absolutely right. those meta builds work for those youtubers, becasue said youtubers have 1. necessary dexterity 2. necessary group composition. the rest of us have to compensate and oftentimes, for a lot of people performance with the meta build is WORSE then performance with modified build that accounts for their capabilities and play style. becasue in vast majority of times - those meta builds are very VERY unforgiving of errors.

I don't use elemental drain, becasue my priority as a healer is to keep people alive. because my reflexes are not that of a 12 year old boy on 2 liters of mountain dew - I do not react to oh *** moments as quickly as someone younger, faster and just generally more skilled. so my priority is first and foremost to have resources available to get those heals out as well as not using up an extra global cool down that could mean a difference between a group member living, or dying. and that btw, is TOO playing to help the team. helping the team can take different forms. people like OP though expect and demand (yes demand, like I said, "please" does change the fact that first words out of their mouth was to ask for ability to be slotted, before they even started going through trash) a very specific style of playing. the kind that revolves around their version of "better"

and its pretty sad really. since this game seems to be all about variety and creative approaches, what with letting everyone use every weapon and all. players just have to go and ruin it by demanding a handful of meta builds or GTFO.

Linaleah wrote: »

it is a height of elitism to expect people to be perfect and condemn them for whatever errors they may make. no, I cannot heal outright stupid. but I can and do try to heal imperfect, someone who may not move fast enough, block soon enough. sometimes, I'm that person.

For healing imperfect you have BoL and that's more then enough If you're templar, of course. You're templar or warden?

I myself also run Templar healer. I pugged with it, healed trials and all that jazz. And honestly - combo Mutagen + Ritual (personally I prefer Extended, btw) is extremely powerful. Extremely.

Like, seriously. Next time you go to dungeon, type in chat "Guys, please try to stick together so I could heal you better", keep your Mutagen + Ritual up and just step aside and observe how much that combo does on its own. Throw occasional BoL if things go south, but the truth is - in most cases Mutagen + Ritual will heal them alright and they won't die even if you don't react in time.

Noone needs to be perfect. Mutagen + Ritual + BoL is enough to cover healing even in bad group unless they scatter around like flies but if they do - pretty much nothing can save them.

You honestly worry too much, imo. Only singular cases - like poison phase on vDCII last boss, execute phase of last boss in vRoM, etc - require extreme healing. In dungeons incoming damage really isn't that high. In vast majority of cases Mutagen + Ritual + BoL (+ some Springs, though personally I don't even use them in dungeons, I have Combat Prayer instead for "Oh, need a mass heal!") pretty much covers it.

I healed vet falkreath like a boss with no healing springs or ele drain! Do go away you annoying little trolls with your demands.

generalmyrick wrote: »

I healed vet falkreath like a boss with no healing springs or ele drain! Do go away you annoying little trolls with your demands.

And your team would have been even more efficient had you equipped ele drain.

I agreed with your first post

As a healer you are NOT the only one responsible for everyone staying alive.

You cast your HoTs (Heal over Time): Ritual (if you're Templar), Mutagen, maybe a bit of Springs. That's it. That's enough for dungeon. In "oh [snip]" case - BoL.

People dying under your HoTs have noone to blame but themselves. They run out of your HoTs begind your back? They die and it's their problem. They stupidly stand in red? They die and it's their problem.

But disagree with your second post.

Dantaria wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

it is a height of elitism to expect people to be perfect and condemn them for whatever errors they may make. no, I cannot heal outright stupid. but I can and do try to heal imperfect, someone who may not move fast enough, block soon enough. sometimes, I'm that person.

For healing imperfect you have BoL and that's more then enough If you're templar, of course. You're templar or warden?

I myself also run Templar healer. I pugged with it, healed trials and all that jazz. And honestly - combo Mutagen + Ritual (personally I prefer Extended, btw) is extremely powerful. Extremely.

Like, seriously. Next time you go to dungeon, type in chat "Guys, please try to stick together so I could heal you better", keep your Mutagen + Ritual up and just step aside and observe how much that combo does on its own. Throw occasional BoL if things go south, but the truth is - in most cases Mutagen + Ritual will heal them alright and they won't die even if you don't react in time.

Noone needs to be perfect. Mutagen + Ritual + BoL is enough to cover healing even in bad group unless they scatter around like flies but if they do - pretty much nothing can save them.

You honestly worry too much, imo. Only singular cases - like poison phase on vDCII last boss, execute phase of last boss in vRoM, etc - require extreme healing. In dungeons incoming damage really isn't that high. In vast majority of cases Mutagen + Ritual + BoL (+ some Springs, though personally I don't even use them in dungeons, I have Combat Prayer instead for "Oh, need a mass heal!") pretty much covers it.

Incoming damage is actually very high in regular and vet dungeons when pugging. I had a "tank" that every hit took him to 25% health. Dps that doesn't block or have any shields/defense/damage mitigation. Dps that gets tunnel vision and tries to throw all they have at a boss because it "so close" to dying -- doesn't matter how close it is you still have roll dodge out of the mechanic. Incoming damage is very high when pugging because very few casuals build for taking damage. They are used to "kiting"in the open world, letting distance be their defense. They also take long downtimes between fights, either rummaging through their inventory or regenerating their pools.

I use ele drain because it helps with everyone's magic sustain. I don't see any reason not to use it. What other skill gives comparable utility?

when it comes to pugs, I'm ready for either playing the cookie cutter armor and skill set, or playing the "geezus im glad I have over 200 soul gems" armor and skill set lol. Some people can't make use of SPC and would greatly benefit from faster rez times, those groups usually need me to dps and take a few hits as well or we'd be there forever. Slot the skills and wear the armor for the group at hand.

As for op, next time try clearing at least the first boss before you pipe up with your "polite requests". If someone zoned in and immediately asked for a skill, I have to assume that their build is so deficient they can't play without it -- which equals a carry in my book.
[edited to remove quote]

Dantaria wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Dps that gets tunnel vision and tries to throw all they have at a boss because it "so close" to dying -- doesn't matter how close it is you still have roll dodge out of the mechanic. Incoming damage is very high when pugging because very few casuals build for taking damage. They are used to "kiting"in the open world, letting distance be their defense. They also take long downtimes between fights, either rummaging through their inventory or regenerating their pools.

Yeah, I saw pug groups in their full glory while leveling Undaunted on my healer. And the truth is... well. Sometimes you just see that they won't make it. And it's honestly better leave. If they scatter, kite and take all damage there is - well, you are a healer, not a god. I always did - and still do - try to communicate first: to ask to keep together, to avoid red, etc. But if it's failPUG - it's failPUG. And HoTs are not at fault, they truly are powerful

Linaleah wrote: »

i do not use quick siphon for literally the same reason i do not use ele drain. its not even remotely comparable to Ritual, they are completely different skills used in a different way, ritual is more comparable to combat prayer then siphon and I'm honestly baffled as to why you decided that they were interchangeable

Erm... Combat Prayer is a burst heal. Quick Siphon is HoT.

Combat Prayer:

Slam your staff down to activate its blessings, healing you and your allies in front of you for [x] Health.
Also grants Minor Berserk, Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing you and your allies' damage done by 8% and Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by [y] for 8 seconds.

See? You heal once - for me it's ~6k. You heal on 6k once.

Quick Siphon:

Focus your staff's power to apply Minor Lifesteal to an enemy for 20 seconds, healing you and your allies for [x] Health every 1 seconds when damaging them.

All the time your DDs damage the enemy, they heal. So... Your DD throw DoT - and boom and done. He heals every second for 20 secs.

Ritual is a HoT. It heals every 2 secs. If you're not a templar, you need another HoT (templars do not use Siphon because for them there is no need). Of course, Siphon is worse than Ritual - Ritual has burst heal synergy, it cleanses and heals stronger. But if you're not Templar - Siphon is very nice. Cast it once - your DDs heals for ~1k every second for 20 secs.

Combat Prayer, on the other hand, is kinda comparable to BoL - heals strong but instantly. No Healing over Time.

Linaleah wrote: »

whatever gear you are running with that makes your hots so powerful? good for you. I'm running crafted purples.

5 SPC + 5 Worm. All epic, only staffs are golden. No monster set, just one monster piece - healers do not run full monster sets.

SPC also bursts my Spell Power so yeah - it helps. But what also helps a lot are golden staffs. Golding your staffs will make a world of a difference, if you can afford it. Heals scale from magicka pool and Spell Damage and golding staffs = +200 to Spell Damage. Golden rule of ESO: cloths and jewellry may be purple, but weapon - always golden.

combat prayer is directed at players. Ritual is directed at players. Siphon is aimed at enemy. which makes it much MUCH more fiddly for me. especially on trash. same reason i don't use ele drain. i find it far too fiddly and distracting for me to manage.

I'm currently running seducer, health willpower jewelry (becasue even with food, yes I need that extra bit, becasue i do NOT have reflexes to move out of the bad or hit my cooldowns quickly enough not to need it. I love how you are not even thinking that reflexes are not just used for casting abilities, they are used for you know, everything else too, like not staying in red, dodging, blocking, interrupting, breaking free, using barriers - its so innate to you apparently that you don't even think about it, but me and I would wager quite a few others? we still have to think about those.

I keep waffling between julianos and necropotence, but honestly, I'm not sure there IS a difference when set is not full. I wanted that seducer 5 piece bonus because yes, I have sustain issues and every bit helps. I couldn't afford necropotence jewelry, so i got what I could afford. I have actualy done white gold tower couple of times. even when I do get spc to drop? its with traits like.. sturdy. my undaunted is not maxed because without dedicated group farming achievements/pledges? it takes bloody forever to level. so I don't have that boost from mettle either. my heals? don't hit nowhere NEAR where yours are hitting. hots are NOT enough. especially fiddly hots. part of the reason i enjoy my sorc is because of how much I appreciate matriarch's heal. if anything compensates for errors, whether they are mine or something else's - its THAT. but.. that also means, that this is my focus.

not everyone plays the way you do. not everyone can. we do what WE can, and if that means NOT being a dedicated buff bot in order to keep people alive? so be it. my description STILL says healer. not buff bot. healer.

and that's the thing, the way dungeons are designed? they ARE doable by people like me. not as quickly. not as smoothly. but they are doable. which is the point. you want quick and smooth? run with people you know are at your skill level. when you are pugging? you take what you get and you work with what you have instead of expecting or demanding people to play at your level regardless what they are ACTUALLY capable of at any given time.

and yes. there IS a difference between explaining and doing your best to follow mechanics and expecting players to play whatever META is needed to clear harder achievements etc. understanding mechanics is reasonable. expecting an average player to have acess to all the things you want them to have acess to at any given moment and get mad when they do not comply? is just... its like going to a park for a pickup game of football and expecting them to play at a competitive team level.

when I first tried dungeons, I didn't yet have orbs, or horn. people I ran with asked if I had it and could slot it. I couldn't. so we worked with what we DID have. the problem is not with asking. the problem is with getting pissy when the answer is no.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

And this is why you are not a good healer.
Healer has the role, of support in a group, which is why a good healer doesn't only heal.
Before talking avout things that you don't know, think twice.

A DPS shouldn't slot e le drain, that would go against their role in the group which is to do DPS.
If they have the buffs as. A part of the rotation then it's fine

We're talking about a PUG here.
The primary role of a healer is to HEAL.
Before using words you don't know, think twice.

Not everyone likes to play BiS and all optimized, and a healer is perfectly entitled to heal and not play the buffing machine.
The DPS are supposed to be somewhat autonomous (again, in a PUG) and are not entitled to have their numbers pushed by someone else sacrificing his own playstyle.

Guess why so many people at endgame report to be so bored (and blame it on ZOS) ? Because they all play the same way and impose that way onto others. In the end everyone play the same things, the same builds, the same rotations, the same strategies. That's why people get bored. If you don't have a healer with ele drain, then compensate some other way, think out the box, be creative, adapt. That way you won't get bored so quickly.

When I come across a healer, a tank for that matter, who acts like you I just do the same. Equip random pieces of armor, proceed to slot random skills, like WoE of a stamina DD etc and we can all have "fun" chugging along in a single dungeon for hours, like the snowflakes we are~

If they comment I just quote their own words about playing how you want etc.

In a team activity you should support each other to get good results, or solo and story mode is better suited for you.