HotR Dungeons difficulty level

rhapsodious · August 2017

Mureel wrote: »

rhapsodious wrote: »

Transairion wrote: »

The thing is, option A alienates far more players and the "elite" players are never satisfied, as it's always "not hard enough" in the end. vMoL wasn't cleared, as in finished AT ALL until months after it released. vHoF was beaten hours after it hit Live server. vICP and vWGT eventually became snoozefests with enough practice, as has every single dungeon.[/b]

While I don't really have issues with the rest of your points, I'd like to point out that Maw was buggy as hell on release which is part of the reason why it took so long to complete. I definitely think vHoF is "easier" as a whole, but part of the hurdle with Maw was you were fighting the bugs in addition to the bosses.

Mureel wrote: »

What I would like to know is: On the Bloodroot Forge, the boss with the Shalks that target you with Lava, what it the mechanic? I've been doing it JUST KILL EM ASAP! but as healer, I am getting targeted by them a lot and wondered if anyone had an alternate mechanic?

Thanks in advance!

Jump across the lava to one of the platforms, the fireball will hit the lava and dissipate. I think a tooltip explains this...

I got called in to help on that boss, and didn't see any tooltips but thank you! That makes sense and so simple I feel like a dummy.

Hm, I remember one being there on PTS. Maybe it's one of the pseudo-subtitles along the bottom of the screen? Or in the death recap? In any case, it probably would have helped if you saw it when the shalks are first introduced in the dungeon; there's a fairly blatant "HEY NEW MECHANIC YA DINGUS" moment. :P

But yeah, for the shalks, if you get the lava ball on you (your screen will have this fiery effect on it) you want to put the lava/molten nirncrux/barf between you and the ball. When the ball touches the lava, it dissipates, but until then it'll start moving faster and faster and, I think, also start doing some kind of pulsey damage on you. Haven't run BF on Live yet though.

anitajoneb17_ESO · August 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

You didn't explain the difference, at all.

Why are you entitled to be able to complete content on the hardest difficulty in ESO but not in a single player game?

I'm sure that the percentage of players who play single player games on the highest difficulty is also <5%.

I have, actually.
Because people tweaking the difficulty to "nightmare" in a single player game DO IT THEMSELVES. They don't ask the devs to do it for them. The devs will NOT spend resources on something that will please less than 5% of players and frustrate the remaining 95%.

Why would it frustrate 95% of players? If you can't complete content on the highest difficulty, then don't play it on that difficulty. Simple. It's the same with single player games. If you can't beat the game on nightmare difficulty, then don't play it on that difficulty.

Who creates the difficulty settings in a single player game if not the devs?? They create harder difficulties for players who want to play it on that difficulty.

The situations are EXACTLY the same.

No. Single players game (and multiplayer games on private servers) can be modded and tweaked without limitations. That's how players adjust it to their liking, and the final difficulty is chosen and designed by the players, not the devs. ESO can't be tweaked. That's the difference.

Why would the 95% of people who can't complete content on the highest difficulty even bother buying that content if they cannot play it ???

It's better for ZOS if YOU, the 1% or even 5% quit playing and buying ESO content than if the remaining 95% stop buying.

Mureel · August 2017

rhapsodious wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

rhapsodious wrote: »

Transairion wrote: »

The thing is, option A alienates far more players and the "elite" players are never satisfied, as it's always "not hard enough" in the end. vMoL wasn't cleared, as in finished AT ALL until months after it released. vHoF was beaten hours after it hit Live server. vICP and vWGT eventually became snoozefests with enough practice, as has every single dungeon.[/b]

While I don't really have issues with the rest of your points, I'd like to point out that Maw was buggy as hell on release which is part of the reason why it took so long to complete. I definitely think vHoF is "easier" as a whole, but part of the hurdle with Maw was you were fighting the bugs in addition to the bosses.

Mureel wrote: »

What I would like to know is: On the Bloodroot Forge, the boss with the Shalks that target you with Lava, what it the mechanic? I've been doing it JUST KILL EM ASAP! but as healer, I am getting targeted by them a lot and wondered if anyone had an alternate mechanic?

Thanks in advance!

Jump across the lava to one of the platforms, the fireball will hit the lava and dissipate. I think a tooltip explains this...

I got called in to help on that boss, and didn't see any tooltips but thank you! That makes sense and so simple I feel like a dummy.

Hm, I remember one being there on PTS. Maybe it's one of the pseudo-subtitles along the bottom of the screen? Or in the death recap? In any case, it probably would have helped if you saw it when the shalks are first introduced in the dungeon; there's a fairly blatant "HEY NEW MECHANIC YA DINGUS" moment. :P

But yeah, for the shalks, if you get the lava ball on you (your screen will have this fiery effect on it) you want to put the lava/molten nirncrux/barf between you and the ball. When the ball touches the lava, it dissipates, but until then it'll start moving faster and faster and, I think, also start doing some kind of pulsey damage on you. Haven't run BF on Live yet though.

Yes and slows you too and you get a knockdown. When they weren't killed fast enough, I was able to mainly hold block and just heal my whole health back like 3x and it was over but I was unlucky at times when I had to heal someone else through it then get targeted directly afterward. That is so much simpler idk why I didn't try it, other than one of the dps got immolated standing on the rocks too long in the non hammer phase so I thought that was a no... but on and off I didn't even think of it.... thanks again!

zaria · August 2017

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

VoodooWasser wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

I´ll be the first to ask: Why does all new content need to be vMoL HM??? You even said that people were disapointed with the difficulty level of SotH dungeons, so ZOS decided to make the new ones a Little easier. I haven´t played Falkreath Hold yet, but Bloodroot forge on HM isn´t "easy".

I can totally understand your point, and my personal playstyle dont have to be yours.

The thing is besides vMol and vHof there isnt much channanging stuff for some players. This Playerbase gets ignored while there is lots of stuff for player who dont need to hard contend.

Like i said: in my opinion it would be best for the game when there would be a third difficulty Level.

A third difficulty level would indeed solve that issue yea. A lot of dungeons in the game could use a 3rd storyline since it feels like they have some sort of "unfinished ending".

* Selenes Web: The wizard claiming Selenes soul for Power, could make a story around that
* Volenfell: Since the woman continues to search for the artifact, what happened then???
* White Gold Tower: The moth priest found Another rift leading to Coldharbour where she Believes the real empress is located at. First you need to climb the Tower again to reach the rift and then fight your way through Coldhourbor to save the real empress
* Vault of Madness: The spirits that "take over" the vault after the fall of The Mad architect, could see a story around that

Is not about this...
If you add a storyline to a third gear of difficulty everyone will try to do it, and ask for nerfs in a matter of seconds.
SAME STORY, SAME REWARDS (as veteran mode) BUT HARDER TO DO.

This, also adding an story with new bosses would also be more work, would be idiotic to not have it as an full dungeon.
Adding an higher difficulty should be pretty easy, increase health of enemies, increase damage but have an cap for non avoidable damage to avoid unavoidable single hit to kill, rather make mechanics harder.

Jawasa · August 2017

I don't think the new dungeons are easier then soth on release. I had all soth achivements but no death vCOS after maybe 1 week of patch release. Did both dungeons on the first try. This patch so far I have after two nights not completed hard mode on any of the dungeons and haven't killed the last boss in falkreath. This ofc might have too do with me being in another group but I think we are getting there. So for us difficulty seems perfect.

adeptusminor · August 2017

Am I missing a mechanic on vet with the last boss of Falkreath? Had a group and they are all good players-at cap or above and can dps over 20kdps easy (generally closer to 30), but once we got the boss to ~700k health, the boss get's a 1.5 or 2m shield and the atronoch ads just keep spawning until we were overwhelmed. Doesn't help that performance goes to hell with all the ads either

code65536 · August 2017

adeptusminor wrote: »

Am I missing a mechanic on vet with the last boss of Falkreath? Had a group and they are all good players-at cap or above and can dps over 20kdps easy (generally closer to 30), but once we got the boss to ~700k health, the boss get's a 1.5 or 2m shield and the atronoch ads just keep spawning until we were overwhelmed. Doesn't help that performance goes to hell with all the ads either

The shield only absorbs partial damage. That is to say, when you hit the boss, some of your damage will get absorbed, and some will bypass the shield and damage the boss behind the shield. I don't think the shield is avoidable. It's just there, and I think it was put there to slow down the execute burn. But basically after a certain point, we just focus the boss down and execute him, ignoring the adds. Yes, the shield slows us down and it takes a bit longer, but it's not too bad. As for what point you stop killing adds and just kill the boss, that's really a personal judgment call based on your group's execute DPS and what your group feels comfortable with. There is an achievement for killing the boss with one of each add type alive, and we've gotten that achievement (without trying to get it) in about half of our runs.

adeptusminor · August 2017

code65536 wrote: »

adeptusminor wrote: »

Am I missing a mechanic on vet with the last boss of Falkreath? Had a group and they are all good players-at cap or above and can dps over 20kdps easy (generally closer to 30), but once we got the boss to ~700k health, the boss get's a 1.5 or 2m shield and the atronoch ads just keep spawning until we were overwhelmed. Doesn't help that performance goes to hell with all the ads either

The shield only absorbs partial damage. That is to say, when you hit the boss, some of your damage will get absorbed, and some will bypass the shield and damage the boss behind the shield. I don't think the shield is avoidable. It's just there, and I think it was put there to slow down the execute burn. But basically after a certain point, we just focus the boss down and execute him, ignoring the adds. Yes, the shield slows us down and it takes a bit longer, but it's not too bad. As for what point you stop killing adds and just kill the boss, that's really a personal judgment call based on your group's execute DPS and what your group feels comfortable with. There is an achievement for killing the boss with one of each add type alive, and we've gotten that achievement (without trying to get it) in about half of our runs.

Thanks for the reply, I did notice that the shield only absorbs partial damage. I'm starting to wonder if maybe our fight got bugged or something. Like I said the people I was playing with are all great players that rock in their roles, and even only focusing on the boss that fight was seriously just felt unwinnable at the end with the amount of ads that piled up, the individual DoT's, the ring of fire and his occasional 1shot yell mechanic. I'll have to give it another shot, I do tend to start playing worse after trying something for a couple hours and not getting any progress

ValkynSketha · August 2017

Mureel wrote: »

What I would like to know is: On the Bloodroot Forge, the boss with the Shalks that target you with Lava, what it the mechanic? I've been doing it JUST KILL EM ASAP! but as healer, I am getting targeted by them a lot and wondered if anyone had an alternate mechanic?

Thanks in advance!

If the group have the dps, you can skip this mechanic by making the tank wait a bit after the shalk spawn and then when they have that fire aoe around them, tank chain the shalk thus stun and canceling it, then burst them down, tho the next one of this mechanic will occur fast before the cc immunity go away of the shalk, otherwise if you don't have the dps, you either stack when shalk spawn block and/or shield when it hit you and heal need to spring the *** of you, or simply go jump on a rock untill the fire following you disappear.

Qbiken · August 2017

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

I´ll be the first to ask: Why does all new content need to be vMoL HM??? You even said that people were disapointed with the difficulty level of SotH dungeons, so ZOS decided to make the new ones a Little easier. I haven´t played Falkreath Hold yet, but Bloodroot forge on HM isn´t "easy".

As if vMoL HM is hard atm ...

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

...The designers grew a CC fetish. Like a crazy CC fetish. Almost every trash mob has some kind of CC and almost all the bosses do too. It's not good difficulty, it's just annoying, and puts more emphasis on DPS, which I thought we were not supposed to do since they took great pains to nerf sustain.

So true, it's annoying as *** We did Bloodroot yesterday and literally just burned every single Boss though

For someone with a Dromat´ra destroyer title (looked at your signature) it probably doesn´t feel difficult. That doesn´t mean vMoL HM is "easy". Same thing goes for SotH dungeons. I used to Think they were the most difficult *** ever, now I don´t. Once you learn mechanics it becomes a lot easier, but that doesn´t mean the content isn´t difficult.

Tyrion87 · August 2017

I agree with you. Although I haven't been in vFH yet, I've done vBF HM a couple times and I'm extremely disappointed. The only good things about vBF are the visuals. It just looks good. But that's all. Mechanics are not that much interesting, complex, memorable and 'innovative' like the ones in IC and SotH dungeons. vBH will get old (and boring) really fast. And from what others say regarding vFH, I think it will be the same in this case too. I'm really sad that now 95% of content is targeted to casual players with no real challenge to good endgame players, apart from vet trials. The game is getting easier and easier. It's changing. For me - for worse.

Merlin13KAGL · August 2017

OP, so you cleared speed-run, no-death Hard Mode on your first run, did you? Somehow I doubt it.

I'd say they're right on the money.

The mechanics are new and interesting, requires group coordination, awareness, and something more than stack-and-burn or stack-and-heal.

ZoS's love affair with fire is still going strong, but I don't think that's ever going to change.

They require some effort, a decent group, and some time to learn the mechanics, what you can and can't do or get away with, but they're manageable.

Do I think a mixed PuG group without voice comms is going to breeze through Vet anytime soon? Unlikely, and that's ok.

However many dozens of times you practiced tested them on PTS, they've been out <4 full days. They need neither a nerf, nor a buff.

They simply need some time to just be what they are: extremely well designed, beautifully level-designed, new and interesting dungeons.

*The experienced delvers will see hints of several other dungeon mechanics/creatures ported over, yet slightly modified for these two. It's an excellent re-use of assets while making them just different enough to be intriguing.

I saw things inspired from MoL, Wild Hunt mounts, RoM, HoF, VoM, 2nd to last boss CoH II, and a myriad of other bits and pieces. All of these will help give hints as to what to expect and how to deal with certain creatures and effects.

Merlin13KAGL · August 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Sure everyone has limits and not everyone is a good player. But that's why normal dungeons exist. You don't have to do vet if you're not capable of doing it.

That old argument again... same old response again : sure, but ZOS will NOT design something for the top 1%. They'll design the vet difficulty at a level that will appeal to, let's say, the top 50%, therefore it will still be too easy for the top 1% . ZOS needs to sell, there's no way around it.

If 50% of people can complete it in the first week,, then it isn't a "challenge". There needs to be a mode that people can find challenging.

It that requires a third difficulty setting, then so be it. You are not entitled to be able to complete content on every difficulty.

The Devs and Designers have to find a balance between content that isn't rolled through immediately after release and content that hasn't been cleared by a large portion of the player base a year after release.

I'm not opposed to more options. Heck, I've called for implementation of a 'difficulty slider' since the beginning, implemented basically like battle-scaling, but in reverse.

The problem is, ZoS only seems to deal in three possible settings: Cakewalk, reasonable, and damn near impossible.

There is a vast area between all of those that they and, by consequence, the players are missing out on.

ecru · August 2017

Mediocre or average pugs will never clear these dungeons, they're too hard. There should be a hard mode that is actually difficult, and a normal vet mode that isn't punishing. I guarantee the vast, vast majority of people who queue for the new vet dungeons will absolutely not complete them. People who think they're too easy should probably go play a different game.

These threads are so out of touch with the rest of the playerbase. Queue for a vet dungeon by yourself sometime--I'm guessing you haven't, for quite awhile. It might an eye-opening experience for everyone whining that it's "too easy" in this thread.

VoodooWasser · August 2017

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

OP, so you cleared speed-run, no-death Hard Mode on your first run, did you? Somehow I doubt it.

I'd say they're right on the money.

The mechanics are new and interesting, requires group coordination, awareness, and something more than stack-and-burn or stack-and-heal.

ZoS's love affair with fire is still going strong, but I don't think that's ever going to change.

They require some effort, a decent group, and some time to learn the mechanics, what you can and can't do or get away with, but they're manageable.

Do I think a mixed PuG group without voice comms is going to breeze through Vet anytime soon? Unlikely, and that's ok.

However many dozens of times you practiced tested them on PTS, they've been out <4 full days. They need neither a nerf, nor a buff.

They simply need some time to just be what they are: extremely well designed, beautifully level-designed, new and interesting dungeons.

*The experienced delvers will see hints of several other dungeon mechanics/creatures ported over, yet slightly modified for these two. It's an excellent re-use of assets while making them just different enough to be intriguing.

I saw things inspired from MoL, Wild Hunt mounts, RoM, HoF, VoM, 2nd to last boss CoH II, and a myriad of other bits and pieces. All of these will help give hints as to what to expect and how to deal with certain creatures and effects.

As already said: no i diddnt. Dont know how often this question will come. My point is not that the dungeon is to easy for the vast majority of players. My point is also not that i want to brag what i can and some ppl cant do. My point is that it should be possible to have fun for everyone. I remember training in a group for no death icp for a week at release. I dont think that that will be the case now. I just think that this two will have to last a while so i would be glad if there were a higher difficulty level. But here therr are just two groups: the ones who sai i and the ppl having a comparable opinion as me are elitists and some ppl here calling everyone who isnt the same opinion filthy casuals. I dont se how a higher difficulty lvl will harm the ppl who dont think they can complete it. I even think that some bosses will be much harder by simply upping their health. And yes i dont pug. I dont have any reason to do so bacause i have guilds and friends. Im sorry for everyone who pug but if going with strangers is the only option to raise the difficulty its not realy a social game at all. So pls calm down a little and just think about why shouldnt there be more difficulty lvls?

anitajoneb17_ESO · August 2017

VoodooWasser wrote: »

So pls calm down a little and just think about why shouldnt there be more difficulty lvls?

It has been explained over and over and over in countless threads.
- ZOS isn't going to invest in tweaking content for 1% or even 0.1% of players
- Players will want special top BiS gear rewards for completing this higher level
- If there's to be a new level of difficulty added, why should it be "nightmare" ? There are more people concerned by the lack of intermediate level right now
- There's already too big a gap between floor and ceiling, let's not add to this problem by introducing more content requiring even more min/Maxing and top player skills. The priority is to streamline the player base, not spread it further between different levels of gaming.
- Some content is there for competitive players (VMA, VMOL, etc. ), but still ESO is NOT a game designed, marketed or meant for high level competitive players. Players looking for this type of content should perhaps look at other games because they're never going to be satisfied with ESO.
- Etc etc.

Merlin13KAGL · August 2017

VoodooWasser wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

OP, so you cleared speed-run, no-death Hard Mode on your first run, did you? Somehow I doubt it.

I'd say they're right on the money.

The mechanics are new and interesting, requires group coordination, awareness, and something more than stack-and-burn or stack-and-heal.

ZoS's love affair with fire is still going strong, but I don't think that's ever going to change.

They require some effort, a decent group, and some time to learn the mechanics, what you can and can't do or get away with, but they're manageable.

Do I think a mixed PuG group without voice comms is going to breeze through Vet anytime soon? Unlikely, and that's ok.

However many dozens of times you practiced tested them on PTS, they've been out <4 full days. They need neither a nerf, nor a buff.

They simply need some time to just be what they are: extremely well designed, beautifully level-designed, new and interesting dungeons.

*The experienced delvers will see hints of several other dungeon mechanics/creatures ported over, yet slightly modified for these two. It's an excellent re-use of assets while making them just different enough to be intriguing.

I saw things inspired from MoL, Wild Hunt mounts, RoM, HoF, VoM, 2nd to last boss CoH II, and a myriad of other bits and pieces. All of these will help give hints as to what to expect and how to deal with certain creatures and effects.

As already said: no i diddnt. Dont know how often this question will come. My point is not that the dungeon is to easy for the vast majority of players. My point is also not that i want to brag what i can and some ppl cant do. My point is that it should be possible to have fun for everyone. I remember training in a group for no death icp for a week at release. I dont think that that will be the case now. I just think that this two will have to last a while so i would be glad if there were a higher difficulty level. But here therr are just two groups: the ones who sai i and the ppl having a comparable opinion as me are elitists and some ppl here calling everyone who isnt the same opinion filthy casuals. I dont se how a higher difficulty lvl will harm the ppl who dont think they can complete it. I even think that some bosses will be much harder by simply upping their health. And yes i dont pug. I dont have any reason to do so bacause i have guilds and friends. Im sorry for everyone who pug but if going with strangers is the only option to raise the difficulty its not realy a social game at all. So pls calm down a little and just think about why shouldnt there be more difficulty lvls?

Well, for full disclosure, I must recant a bit.

Got the HM run on day two (the skin is gawd-awful-ugly) by noticing more subtleties and details and adjusting methods a bit.

I still think it's reasonable and am actually leaning towards painless (even if not 'easy') after noticing these things, so I can fully see where you're coming from.

You are correct, it's probably never going to be a PuG friendly dungeon. It does require a coordinated group and experienced players, due to the timing, movement, etc involved.

There is something to be said about being able to get a HM clear on day 2, though I think it's due more to experience with other dungeons and observations than any l33tness on my groups' part. (Never touched it on PTS, either)

They need to split the difference and provide a way (other than players) to help people develop that ability to see how to progress, while providing something more.

I suppose an ideal option for this would be to develop some DLC with nothing but top end in mind. There would be enough sales, and it would clearly marketed as not for the average player.

No surprises that way and no reason for anyone to get bent out of shape if they purchase knowing that going in. The dev cycle wouldn't be as frequent, but the opportunity would be there.

Would that suffice?

anitajoneb17_ESO · August 2017

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I suppose an ideal option for this would be to develop some DLC with nothing but top end in mind. There would be enough sales, and it would clearly marketed as not for the average player.

The assumption quoted in bold requires some backup argumentation.

AlMcFly · August 2017

Bloodroot Forge is a piece of donkey sh*t wrapped in a turd sandwich for Healers. Good job ZOS. Nerf all sustain not too long ago, then design a dungeon where every fight is non-stop red aoe pools and where you have almost no time to heavy attack in order to refill magicka. This is a f**king PUG nightmare and I no longer have any drive to play it again, even on Normal mode.

VoodooWasser · August 2017

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I suppose an ideal option for this would be to develop some DLC with nothing but top end in mind. There would be enough sales, and it would clearly marketed as not for the average player.

The assumption quoted in bold requires some backup argumentation.

I have to agree. There isnt a lot of players who would only buy a "hardmode" DLC. ZoS already got a lot of critic for SotH because many couldnt complete the dungeons.

Trashkan · August 2017

VoodooWasser wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I suppose an ideal option for this would be to develop some DLC with nothing but top end in mind. There would be enough sales, and it would clearly marketed as not for the average player.

The assumption quoted in bold requires some backup argumentation.

I have to agree. There isnt a lot of players who would only buy a "hardmode" DLC. ZoS already got a lot of critic for SotH because many couldnt complete the dungeons.

When they beat the rest of the hard modes I'm sure they will be glad there was some kind of challenge waiting for them.

anitajoneb17_ESO · August 2017

Trashkan wrote: »

When they beat the rest of the hard modes I'm sure they will be glad there was some kind of challenge waiting for them.

But they don't beat the rest of the hard modes. ZOS would certainly release harder content if players would complete the current content, but they don't.
People just don't seem to understand that the majority of players hate difficulty, don't look for challenges and don't give a f* about progression.

I tried Veteran Falkreath dungeon 1st time yesterday, with friends. (Friends, not guildies). We spent 4 hours in there (was fun and all) and brought the last boss down to 15%. Then we stopped, because after 4 hours, normal people with a job/family/etc. just get tired. We'll try again soon, but "soon" might take a few weeks before the 4 of us are together online again to try it again. And we want to try it together, not with whatever guildies might be online when we are, with no friendly connection between us. Because to us the purpose of the game is not "progression", is not to "beat content", it's simply to play together.

Dantaria · August 2017

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Sorry. Just finished Falkreath Hold on vet. ^ honestly is the only thing I can say about it

I have Amberplasm skin, Spiderkith skin and let me tell you - f**k it, last boss of vFH beats it hands down and that's without HM, I don't want to think about HM for now

Like... vFH is totally okay until the last boss. But last boss - his last 20% more specifically - is a freaking mess.

Yesterday we spent 4 hours on this last percents, didn't make it. We tried doing it carefully - like, don't damage boss, he is under shield anyway, it should mean something, so focus Atrochs... That didn't end well.

Tried ignoring Atrochs and straight burning the boss, EVERYTHING INTO BOSS NUKE NUKE NUKE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA - and made it, but idk...

What is this shield? What are those totems?

Considering the existance of the Endure the Elements achievement... Idk. It just seems to me there is some mechanic we don't get. Like... Why would this achievement exist, if it's hard not to have those atrochs alive in the end?

Idk. Complete and total mess. But Jesus was it satisfying to finally bring him down and tea-bag the remaining pile of ash

vBF is honestly easy in comparison. We did struggle on the boss before the last, with Shalks and Atrochs. Takes some time to get used to the mechanics. But we made through relaxingly in one go. Took us ~2.5 hours.

vFH? Last boss deserves the AAAAAAAAAAAA OMFG I DON'T EVEN AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA award

Trashkan · August 2017

It takes 4 members doing there jobs or three and a dps carrying the other. We smashed hard mode on the 4th try with very little effort. We almost had it second but didn't realize finale pillar was on a timer. Then we we smashed through speed run and got Faulkreath challenger. We did all this in under an hour. It was fun and yes it requires you to perform mechanics. What do you all expect the same mechanics from dungeon to dungeon? My first dungeon was f.g and I went in before battle leveling was a thing I must of spent 20 hours on that thing before we finally beat it. So long story short and I hate to say this but it truly is a learn 2 play issue.

Pennytence · August 2017

VoodooWasser wrote: »

I think everybody will agree when i say the two new dungeons look absolutly awesome! I dont think everybody will agree when i say they are way to easy.

In my personal opinion HotR is by far not comparable to IC and SotH dungeons when they launched. I do like the Mechanics but most bosses have to low health and some dont hit hard enaugh.
The problem is that according to ZoS shown yearly plans for the DlC´s this two dungeons have to last a whole year like IC and SotH before them had to. I know SotH was not popular due to difficulty level, but it was the thing this game needet for people who are not far enaugh to do endgame raiding but to far to be content with wayrest sewers and co. AND this content just got nerfed (havend checked it out yet).

I know many ppl will be offended and say its elitist but i would love if HotR gets Buffed. I would also love it if all Dungeons get a thrid, harder than veteran, modus.

I have to agree with the OP. I quite enjoyed the new dungeons - almost as much as I enjoyed the SotH ones in the beginning - during the first run. However, the fact that our group could walk in blind - none of us had any idea of what to face in there - and still waltz through the vHM versions of both in an afternoon was a bit of a disappointment.

If the new and "harder" content isn't more of a challenge, what's to keep us hooked? I like having my characters running into a brick wall sometimes. To test content that makes me want to bang my head against the desk because it's challenging. And, if it takes weeks/months to complete it, that's a good thing, because it makes me come back to try again.

However, I understand that not all people are as much of a sucker for punishment as I, so I too would like a third difficulty in place (or a scaling system akin to WoW's Mythic+). Would I need more rewards for it? No, probably not. Sure, gold jewelry, titles and skins would be nice, but not needed. An increase in gold - like the undaunted plunder - would be appreciated though, as I suspect the cost of potions and repairs would increase.

That's just my opinion, but looking through these forums lately has given me the impression I'm not alone in feeling as if the game has become a bit too easy at times.

Oh, and for the ones saying the new dungeons are too hard: Leave your healer at the Ebon Flask. They're way easier without one.

Merlin13KAGL · August 2017

VoodooWasser wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I suppose an ideal option for this would be to develop some DLC with nothing but top end in mind. There would be enough sales, and it would clearly marketed as not for the average player.

The assumption quoted in bold requires some backup argumentation.

I have to agree. There isnt a lot of players who would only buy a "hardmode" DLC. ZoS already got a lot of critic for SotH because many couldnt complete the dungeons.

@anitajoneb17_ESO , I'm basing it off of a few assumptions:

There would be development time dedicated to it, but far less than what is dedicated to normal content, say at a 30:1 ratio. This means that it would not be nearly as frequent in the Dev cycle, but the potential return could still be there. They would simply have to reach a point where projected sales would be greater than the in-house development cost. Since some of the cost is funded by 'normal' content, it's not as if it would require hiring a separate development team.
Adding a third mode to existing content is equally a huge undertaking, equal, if not greater than the dev cost of developing a separate HM DLC. Such a DLC would never have to be balanced for the typical user, requiring less upkeep in that regard. Less upkeep, fewer hours, better return.
HM DLC marketed as such is no less niche than the occasional peculiar item placed in the Crown Store. Granted, the dev cost for Crown items is likely much lower. In either case, those niche items sell to someone.
Final argument is based on individual customer experience. That is, my own. If it were reasonably priced, provided enough content, and well executed, I, for one, would purchase it. I suspect there are several others that would as well.

Unless they develop an overall 'difficulty slider,' which could be the simplest way to go, I see them being much more likely to make that occasional single piece of content for a specific crowd than modifying their entire game with an additional mode.

Their historical success rate with integrating such things and not having it somehow negatively overflow into other aspects of the game is just not that great. Developing and maintaining a completely separate animal would be a less costly way to go, in the long run.

If you truly want harder content, @VoodooWasser , I think this would be your best bet.

VoodooWasser · August 2017

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

VoodooWasser wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I suppose an ideal option for this would be to develop some DLC with nothing but top end in mind. There would be enough sales, and it would clearly marketed as not for the average player.

The assumption quoted in bold requires some backup argumentation.

I have to agree. There isnt a lot of players who would only buy a "hardmode" DLC. ZoS already got a lot of critic for SotH because many couldnt complete the dungeons.

@anitajoneb17_ESO , I'm basing it off of a few assumptions:
There would be development time dedicated to it, but far less than what is dedicated to normal content, say at a 30:1 ratio. This means that it would not be nearly as frequent in the Dev cycle, but the potential return could still be there. They would simply have to reach a point where projected sales would be greater than the in-house development cost. Since some of the cost is funded by 'normal' content, it's not as if it would require hiring a separate development team.

Adding a third mode to existing content is equally a huge undertaking, equal, if not greater than the dev cost of developing a separate HM DLC. Such a DLC would never have to be balanced for the typical user, requiring less upkeep in that regard. Less upkeep, fewer hours, better return.

HM DLC marketed as such is no less niche than the occasional peculiar item placed in the Crown Store. Granted, the dev cost for Crown items is likely much lower. In either case, those niche items sell to someone.

Final argument is based on individual customer experience. That is, my own. If it were reasonably priced, provided enough content, and well executed, I, for one, would purchase it. I suspect there are several others that would as well.

Unless they develop an overall 'difficulty slider,' which could be the simplest way to go, I see them being much more likely to make that occasional single piece of content for a specific crowd than modifying their entire game with an additional mode.

Their historical success rate with integrating such things and not having it somehow negatively overflow into other aspects of the game is just not that great. Developing and maintaining a completely separate animal would be a less costly way to go, in the long run.

If you truly want harder content, @VoodooWasser , I think this would be your best bet.

I would totally be up for that. But i still doubt that they will implement such an update.

Anyway... i tank-healed falconreach yesterday... so dissapointed it actually worked by using eruptive shield, vigor while wearing ebon and spc.

VoodooWasser · August 2017

... stupid quote lag

sorry

HotR Dungeons difficulty level

HotR Dungeons difficulty level