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You Guys Could Nerf Soul Assault Anytime Zos!
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DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Lol maybe instead of stacking 3k+ wpn DMG and 70% crit you invest in some SnB or resistance or Reactive
In other words, your solution is "use heavy armor"?
Believe it or not, there are people who don't enjoy playing heavy armor S&B characters and don't enjoy being forced into playing them.2 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »Lol maybe instead of stacking 3k+ wpn DMG and 70% crit you invest in some SnB or resistance or Reactive
MEGALUL.Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!2 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nothing wrong with soul assault. easy to counter. not even one of the best ultimates. [snip]
Easy to counter? Its a skill without a counter fyi. You probably will say block right? Have fun blocking when youre a sustainbuild in full medium armor, youre shutting down the whole point of your build, stamina regen, not to mention your mobility.
This skill basicly only has a counter if the person getting hit by it has built for blocking alot. (not mentioning shielding and healing because that is class specific)
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on June 14, 2026 1:27PM
PC EU
PvP only3 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »@pieratsos lol, your medium armor yolo build can't survive SA. Sorry but you're not gonna convince the majority of players that know how to play and counter that it's OP.
You can get a few 3-5 stars to agree with you, but any long term players know.
Your build is bad and you should feel bad
I believe he has successfully convinced the majority of players that know how to play and counter that it's not balanced. (OP isn't the right word to describe the state of soul assault)
On the contrary, you failed to convince the majority of players that know how to play and counter that it's not.
Proof: This whole thread.Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Lol maybe instead of stacking 3k+ wpn DMG and 70% crit you invest in some SnB or resistance or Reactive
In other words, your solution is "use heavy armor"?
Believe it or not, there are people who don't enjoy playing heavy armor S&B characters and don't enjoy being forced into playing them.
And I don't wanna have to run Resto or SnB, but if I don't I'm not gonna complain I got killed because I choose not to0 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
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Ok, so first I never said it was the only change, tho surely the most important one. Second, you don't know who you are talking to, so please refrain to call me out, or if you want, and play on Pc Na, add me. @San.tii and we can further discuss how unskillful I am.
It's not useless on permablockers, and even if it were it doesn't really matters, you just target someone else. And you can't increase the dmge is far too strong now. Making interruptable will legit destroy the skill, or you don't remember. A single crushing shock will counter an ultimate, thats ridiculous.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Lol, no reason? How about that would leave the skill complete useless, like you know, it was when that was the case. Only change the ult needs is to space the ticks a bit so it doesn't drain too much Stam. And that is it.hmsdragonfly wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »
Whooptydoo... you survived SA with one of the more tanky builds in the game.WaltherCarraway wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »It takes you merely 18k stam to block a full soul assault.
My magicka dk pvp build has that amount of stam which is also capable to accomodate more situations (roll dodge, break free, that usually require more stam on magic toon)
EDIT: words in bracket for clearer concept.
EDIT2: I'm not even running full sturdy. Including one hand and shield passive + 1 sturdy; my block cost reduction is 40% flat.
Today I sucessfully blocked two Soul Assaults (different times different players). Both kinda deleted my stam pool but I largely survived that blow with the spec I quoted above. Blocking that thing will mitigate at least 50% of damage even your don't have protection buffs with you. I can't manage to find stam draining diagram for my two blocking aforementioned.
If you think 5 light spinner and 2 heavy bloodspawn plus a sword and board all divines cept head is sturdy, is one of a more tanky build. Then you might need to look carefully into those real tanky build.
By the way the tankiest build is double even triple ward spamming sorc...
EDIT: sword and boards are part of silk of the sun set.
You use S&B and have 18k stam. So yes, you can block it with ease. Now, have you tried to block it with a bow in medium armour?
I thought the OP was talking about how overpowered and unblockable it is. Well if you have to block that with bow how about go cloak after 2 secs? I bet 2s of blocking won't drain 18K stam even on bow right?
Ummm, how does a stamsorc or a stamplar go to cloak?
It's not "overpowered", it is poorly designed, as in, it is useless against certain builds and extremely powerful against other builds.
stealth pot, or try to find something to block LOS.
I partially agree with your point (about the design).
I am not a zergling, so no stealth pot for me, i need speed pots. There's no way to block LOS in BG because if you camp LOS the enemy will just take the objective and win.
That's why it should be interruptible.
It is already useless against permablock and shield-stacking builds. Adjusting the stamina drain is nice, but it will be even more useless against permablock builds, unless that's how you want it to be. My proposal is to increase the damage tick through block and make it interruptible, so that it actually promotes skillful plays. I don't use that poorly designed skill, but if you just want to just reduce the stam it takes to block, I will take it, but I believe my proposal might be better for you.
You dont remember either. If you did, then you would know that interrupt wasnt the only thing that was changed.
And no its absolutely not ridiculous. Thats called skill. Something u are unfamiliar with. A lot of abilities, ults in the game can be completely countered by one skill/mechanic. That doesnt make them useless. Its for people to react and use their brain to either defend using their counters or find a way around the counter when on offense.
And finally, there is no display on skill being able to iterrupt a 4.5s channel, gap close, bash, finished, crushing shock, finished. This goes for you @hmsdragonfly, and @DDuke too. You are asking for a counter, but you are not considering that picking this ult actually means to give up on stronger, and more useful on group play than Soul Assault, like literally any other is. Of course for 1vX this skill's pretty strong, but for group v group? nah dude, almost anythng else is better. Someone's Sa you? your team focus him and he's dead or got to stop.
Again, what is needed is to space the ticks so consume less stamina while blocking. That's it.Edited by SanTii.92 on August 16, 2017 4:37PMWhen the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.3 -
Glarin✭✭✭Soul Assault is fine the way it is. I'm able to survive it on a magDK in 5 light with NO SHIELDS.Aldmeri Dominon: Glarin |Dragonknight *** Erìnwy |SorcererEbonheart Pact: Alexandrìte |Dragonknight |Former Emperor *** Oops I Negated Again |Sorcerer |Former EmperorDaggerfall Covenant: Eìr |Templar1
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DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Lol maybe instead of stacking 3k+ wpn DMG and 70% crit you invest in some SnB or resistance or Reactive
In other words, your solution is "use heavy armor"?
Believe it or not, there are people who don't enjoy playing heavy armor S&B characters and don't enjoy being forced into playing them.
And I don't wanna have to run Resto or SnB, but if I don't I'm not gonna complain I got killed because I choose not to
So you acknowledge there's a balance issue forcing people to run S&B (and as a direct consequence, heavy armor), but you think no one should complain about it and thus it should remain in the game? Gotcha. Can't say I see any logic in that though.
I disagree regarding the "having to run resto" part though, ever since Dampen Magic was turned into a decent shield there hasn't been any necessity to use resto staff (as every magicka build has access to self heals from class skills).3 -
Neoauspex✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »Lol maybe instead of stacking 3k+ wpn DMG and 70% crit you invest in some SnB or resistance or Reactive
In other words, your solution is "use heavy armor"?
Believe it or not, there are people who don't enjoy playing heavy armor S&B characters and don't enjoy being forced into playing them.
Looks like, based on your preferences, you can either enjoy line-of-sighting or you can enjoy your shrimp.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Lol maybe instead of stacking 3k+ wpn DMG and 70% crit you invest in some SnB or resistance or Reactive
In other words, your solution is "use heavy armor"?
Believe it or not, there are people who don't enjoy playing heavy armor S&B characters and don't enjoy being forced into playing them.
Looks like, based on your preferences, you can either enjoy line-of-sighting or you can enjoy your shrimp.
Or maybe I'll just enjoy another game if I can't play a medium armor "rogue" and instead have to play a "tank" character.
You can't seriously expect there always to be LoS within 1-2 second distance when you're snared by 70% and forced to block, that's absurd.1 -
Neoauspex✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »Lol maybe instead of stacking 3k+ wpn DMG and 70% crit you invest in some SnB or resistance or Reactive
In other words, your solution is "use heavy armor"?
Believe it or not, there are people who don't enjoy playing heavy armor S&B characters and don't enjoy being forced into playing them.
Looks like, based on your preferences, you can either enjoy line-of-sighting or you can enjoy your shrimp.
Or maybe I'll just enjoy another game if I can't play a medium armor "rogue" and instead have to play a "tank" character.
You can't seriously expect there always to be LoS within 1-2 second distance when you're snared by 70% and forced to block, that's absurd.
If that was my preference though, I'd apply that to my play style. Every class/build has really specific counters in this game, but I'll reiterate the Starbucks analogy... You don't ever see "LFM need soul assaulters" in zone chat because it's really specific what it's good against. The two ultimates that you do see that about are good all the time.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Lol maybe instead of stacking 3k+ wpn DMG and 70% crit you invest in some SnB or resistance or Reactive
In other words, your solution is "use heavy armor"?
Believe it or not, there are people who don't enjoy playing heavy armor S&B characters and don't enjoy being forced into playing them.
Looks like, based on your preferences, you can either enjoy line-of-sighting or you can enjoy your shrimp.
Or maybe I'll just enjoy another game if I can't play a medium armor "rogue" and instead have to play a "tank" character.
You can't seriously expect there always to be LoS within 1-2 second distance when you're snared by 70% and forced to block, that's absurd.
If that was my preference though, I'd apply that to my play style. Every class/build has really specific counters in this game, but I'll reiterate the Starbucks analogy... You don't ever see "LFM need soul assaulters" in zone chat because it's really specific what it's good against. The two ultimates that you do see that about are good all the time.
Well no, not really. Not in that level anyway.
Things like Shield Breaker might be good vs shields for example, but it's not a guaranteed death sentence to fight against someone using it (even if you're outnumbered). A Soul Assault vs medium armor user on the other hand is pretty much a death sentence, as it disables all your "zerg defenses" (dodge, cloak) and drains atleast half your stamina & health pools.
I don't mind seeing skills/gear etc that are strong vs certain opponents, but Soul Assault has taken that concept way overboard and made PvP unenjoyable for a medium armor user.
And if you're talking about destro ulti as one of the more popular ultimates, that you can atleast somewhat deal with by simply getting out of the radius (and nothing prevents you from having Soul Assault on 2nd bar btw).
Still, it being undodgeable/cloakable as well is another reason (albeit to a lesser extent than Soul Assault) why medium armor is kind of garbage these days for anything but ganking.Edited by DDuke on August 16, 2017 5:03PM1 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
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You are just looking at this from this very particular perspective, if you were to consider the larger picture you'd notice it's not stronger than many other ults. Also in no way Sa is a harder counter to med armor than shield breaker to light.Waffennacht wrote: »Lol maybe instead of stacking 3k+ wpn DMG and 70% crit you invest in some SnB or resistance or Reactive
In other words, your solution is "use heavy armor"?
Believe it or not, there are people who don't enjoy playing heavy armor S&B characters and don't enjoy being forced into playing them.
Looks like, based on your preferences, you can either enjoy line-of-sighting or you can enjoy your shrimp.
Or maybe I'll just enjoy another game if I can't play a medium armor "rogue" and instead have to play a "tank" character.
You can't seriously expect there always to be LoS within 1-2 second distance when you're snared by 70% and forced to block, that's absurd.
If that was my preference though, I'd apply that to my play style. Every class/build has really specific counters in this game, but I'll reiterate the Starbucks analogy... You don't ever see "LFM need soul assaulters" in zone chat because it's really specific what it's good against. The two ultimates that you do see that about are good all the time.
Well no, not really. Not in that level anyway.
Things like Shield Breaker might be good vs shields for example, but it's not a guaranteed death sentence to fight against someone using it (even if you're outnumbered). A Soul Assault vs medium armor user on the other hand is pretty much a death sentence, as it disables all your "zerg defenses" (dodge, cloak) and drains atleast half your stamina & health pools.
I don't mind seeing skills/gear etc that are strong vs certain opponents, but Soul Assault has taken that concept way overboard and made PvP unenjoyable for a medium armor user.
And if you're talking about destro ulti as one of the more popular ultimates, that you can atleast somewhat deal with by simply getting out of the radius (and nothing prevents you from having Soul Assault on 2nd bar btw).
Still, it being undodgeable/cloakable as well is another reason (albeit to a lesser extent than Soul Assault) why medium armor is kind of garbage these days for anything but ganking.
I will agree tho, that it should consume less stamina, and maybe the snare could be reduce slightly.When the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Ok, so first I never said it was the only change, tho surely the most important one. Second, you don't know who you are talking to, so please refrain to call me out, or if you want, and play on Pc Na, add me. @San.tii and we can further discuss how unskillful I am.
It's not useless on permablockers, and even if it were it doesn't really matters, you just target someone else. And you can't increase the dmge is far too strong now. Making interruptable will legit destroy the skill, or you don't remember. A single crushing shock will counter an ultimate, thats ridiculous.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Lol, no reason? How about that would leave the skill complete useless, like you know, it was when that was the case. Only change the ult needs is to space the ticks a bit so it doesn't drain too much Stam. And that is it.hmsdragonfly wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »
Whooptydoo... you survived SA with one of the more tanky builds in the game.WaltherCarraway wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »It takes you merely 18k stam to block a full soul assault.
My magicka dk pvp build has that amount of stam which is also capable to accomodate more situations (roll dodge, break free, that usually require more stam on magic toon)
EDIT: words in bracket for clearer concept.
EDIT2: I'm not even running full sturdy. Including one hand and shield passive + 1 sturdy; my block cost reduction is 40% flat.
Today I sucessfully blocked two Soul Assaults (different times different players). Both kinda deleted my stam pool but I largely survived that blow with the spec I quoted above. Blocking that thing will mitigate at least 50% of damage even your don't have protection buffs with you. I can't manage to find stam draining diagram for my two blocking aforementioned.
If you think 5 light spinner and 2 heavy bloodspawn plus a sword and board all divines cept head is sturdy, is one of a more tanky build. Then you might need to look carefully into those real tanky build.
By the way the tankiest build is double even triple ward spamming sorc...
EDIT: sword and boards are part of silk of the sun set.
You use S&B and have 18k stam. So yes, you can block it with ease. Now, have you tried to block it with a bow in medium armour?
I thought the OP was talking about how overpowered and unblockable it is. Well if you have to block that with bow how about go cloak after 2 secs? I bet 2s of blocking won't drain 18K stam even on bow right?
Ummm, how does a stamsorc or a stamplar go to cloak?
It's not "overpowered", it is poorly designed, as in, it is useless against certain builds and extremely powerful against other builds.
stealth pot, or try to find something to block LOS.
I partially agree with your point (about the design).
I am not a zergling, so no stealth pot for me, i need speed pots. There's no way to block LOS in BG because if you camp LOS the enemy will just take the objective and win.
That's why it should be interruptible.
It is already useless against permablock and shield-stacking builds. Adjusting the stamina drain is nice, but it will be even more useless against permablock builds, unless that's how you want it to be. My proposal is to increase the damage tick through block and make it interruptible, so that it actually promotes skillful plays. I don't use that poorly designed skill, but if you just want to just reduce the stam it takes to block, I will take it, but I believe my proposal might be better for you.
You dont remember either. If you did, then you would know that interrupt wasnt the only thing that was changed.
And no its absolutely not ridiculous. Thats called skill. Something u are unfamiliar with. A lot of abilities, ults in the game can be completely countered by one skill/mechanic. That doesnt make them useless. Its for people to react and use their brain to either defend using their counters or find a way around the counter when on offense.
And finally, there is no display on skill being able to iterrupt a 4.5s channel, gap close, bash, finished, crushing shock, finished. This goes for you @hmsdragonfly, and @DDuke too. You are asking for a counter, but you are not considering that picking this ult actually means to give up on stronger, and more useful on group play than Soul Assault, like literally any other is. Of course for 1vX this skill's pretty strong, but for group v group? nah dude, almost anythng else is better. Someone's Sa you? your team focus him and he's dead or got to stop.
There is absolutely a better display of skills in bashing soul assault than casting it on a dude who happens to not run S&B and get a free kill for yourself. You have to set up a burst combo and then outplay your opponent if you want to kill them with DB, Leap or Meteor, but that's not what you have to do with SA, you just cast it and it's a guaranteed kill. Bashing SA is like bashing Jesus Beam. I remember watching Jack Danielle's stream, and there I witnessed the most skillful play in ESO that I have ever seen: He was fighting a Magplar, he got the Magplar to 50%, but he purposely let his own health to go to 25%. Normally Magplars would cast BoL and get back to full health when they get to that low, but seeing Jack at 25% HP, instead of casting BoL, the Magplar casted Jesus Beam, so Jack bashed the jesus beam then immediately bursted the Magplar down with his insane combo with perfect animation canceling. The whole stream was like "D:", ":O", "o.O", "OMG that bash". That's exactly why ZOS should promote that kind of plays instead of all the cheese like viper tremor or SA.
Soul assault is good for 1vX? What dude? Soul assault is the pinnacle of Xv1 skills, like literally, if you 1vX you don't want to be locked into a 4-second animation, the zergs will kill you in less than 2 seconds. It's not even strong in dueling, because in dueling most people run heavy S&B anyway and it deals like 10 damage to those kind of guys. But it's very powerful in Xv1 because if you happen to be somewhere without LOS (you get ambushed by zergs, you are chasing scrolls, you see 2 people but suddenly 5 more appear), it's the best Xv1 ability that you can get: it snares you, slows you down, the only thing you can do is to block and the others will just jump on you and you die. Basically if someone SA you while you are 1vXing you are pretty much dead. Ask any 1vXer, SA is their worse enemy, even more frustrating to deal with than Xv1 snipers. Group v group? It's insanely strong in BG, because you can't camp LOS in BG, and there are tons of people running around in medium armour (because of no CP), so you can get free kill after free kill, just randomly cast it on a dude and if he doesn't run S&B he is dead.
Again, increase the damage tick through block to make it more viable against permablock builds, then make it interruptible. Promote skillful plays, don't promote cheese.Edited by hmsdragonfly on August 16, 2017 5:25PMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
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You are just looking at this from this very particular perspective, if you were to consider the larger picture you'd notice it's not stronger than many other ults. Also in no way Sa is a harder counter to med armor than shield breaker to light.Waffennacht wrote: »Lol maybe instead of stacking 3k+ wpn DMG and 70% crit you invest in some SnB or resistance or Reactive
In other words, your solution is "use heavy armor"?
Believe it or not, there are people who don't enjoy playing heavy armor S&B characters and don't enjoy being forced into playing them.
Looks like, based on your preferences, you can either enjoy line-of-sighting or you can enjoy your shrimp.
Or maybe I'll just enjoy another game if I can't play a medium armor "rogue" and instead have to play a "tank" character.
You can't seriously expect there always to be LoS within 1-2 second distance when you're snared by 70% and forced to block, that's absurd.
If that was my preference though, I'd apply that to my play style. Every class/build has really specific counters in this game, but I'll reiterate the Starbucks analogy... You don't ever see "LFM need soul assaulters" in zone chat because it's really specific what it's good against. The two ultimates that you do see that about are good all the time.
Well no, not really. Not in that level anyway.
Things like Shield Breaker might be good vs shields for example, but it's not a guaranteed death sentence to fight against someone using it (even if you're outnumbered). A Soul Assault vs medium armor user on the other hand is pretty much a death sentence, as it disables all your "zerg defenses" (dodge, cloak) and drains atleast half your stamina & health pools.
I don't mind seeing skills/gear etc that are strong vs certain opponents, but Soul Assault has taken that concept way overboard and made PvP unenjoyable for a medium armor user.
And if you're talking about destro ulti as one of the more popular ultimates, that you can atleast somewhat deal with by simply getting out of the radius (and nothing prevents you from having Soul Assault on 2nd bar btw).
Still, it being undodgeable/cloakable as well is another reason (albeit to a lesser extent than Soul Assault) why medium armor is kind of garbage these days for anything but ganking.
I will agree tho, that it should consume less stamina, and maybe the snare could be reduce slightly.
How is "press button, kill the outnumbered stamina build trying to 1vX" not worse than "press button, deal 2k damage through shield"?
Atleast you have a chance to react against Shield Breaker, you can streak/cloak away (if sorc/NB), try to outheal it (2k/second+another 2k if Oblivion enchant & Infused=around 4k/second healing required which is possible for multiple magicka builds) or simply nuke down the Shield Breaker user (with Soul Assault for example since it'll most likely be a medium armor user).
Against Soul Assault, you don't have any good options as a medium armor user - except to slot S&B and play a completely different build with a completely different playstyle.
But yes, reducing the stamina it takes to block it would be a good first step, though I'd like to see it cloakable sooner as well.1 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭UppGRAYxDD wrote: »mmolegends44 wrote: »[snip]
[snip]
[snip]
[snip]
It's a "Do you run S&B?" filter. Totally useless against S&B builds but insanely strong against non-S&B builds.Soul Assault is fine the way it is. I'm able to survive it on a magDK in 5 light with NO SHIELDS.
Also no S&B?
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on June 14, 2026 1:34PMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!2 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@hmsdragonfly what you described there imo, one is probably your best post in this.
2. Imo, what you described is not a nerf. You're describing a change to the ability that, I can probably get behind.
Nerfs is what happened to Black Rose0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
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You are just looking at this from this very particular perspective, if you were to consider the larger picture you'd notice it's not stronger than many other ults. Also in no way Sa is a harder counter to med armor than shield breaker to light.Waffennacht wrote: »Lol maybe instead of stacking 3k+ wpn DMG and 70% crit you invest in some SnB or resistance or Reactive
In other words, your solution is "use heavy armor"?
Believe it or not, there are people who don't enjoy playing heavy armor S&B characters and don't enjoy being forced into playing them.
Looks like, based on your preferences, you can either enjoy line-of-sighting or you can enjoy your shrimp.
Or maybe I'll just enjoy another game if I can't play a medium armor "rogue" and instead have to play a "tank" character.
You can't seriously expect there always to be LoS within 1-2 second distance when you're snared by 70% and forced to block, that's absurd.
If that was my preference though, I'd apply that to my play style. Every class/build has really specific counters in this game, but I'll reiterate the Starbucks analogy... You don't ever see "LFM need soul assaulters" in zone chat because it's really specific what it's good against. The two ultimates that you do see that about are good all the time.
Well no, not really. Not in that level anyway.
Things like Shield Breaker might be good vs shields for example, but it's not a guaranteed death sentence to fight against someone using it (even if you're outnumbered). A Soul Assault vs medium armor user on the other hand is pretty much a death sentence, as it disables all your "zerg defenses" (dodge, cloak) and drains atleast half your stamina & health pools.
I don't mind seeing skills/gear etc that are strong vs certain opponents, but Soul Assault has taken that concept way overboard and made PvP unenjoyable for a medium armor user.
And if you're talking about destro ulti as one of the more popular ultimates, that you can atleast somewhat deal with by simply getting out of the radius (and nothing prevents you from having Soul Assault on 2nd bar btw).
Still, it being undodgeable/cloakable as well is another reason (albeit to a lesser extent than Soul Assault) why medium armor is kind of garbage these days for anything but ganking.
I will agree tho, that it should consume less stamina, and maybe the snare could be reduce slightly.
All other ults require you to outplay all of your opponents and set up a well-timed burst combo to beat them, even if they wear full medium.
Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!2 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »Tonnopesce wrote: »Tonnopesce wrote: »s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »
So you're saying they removed block? Okay then
No but a single Soul assault will drain 30 k stamina in seconds
Then why do I have zero trouble blocking this in a magDK with 15k stam?
Not saying Soul Assault can't be effective -- I 2-3 shot people on magblade ganker with it. Said magblade is also toast if you catch her because I failed to detect your friend in stealth. It's a fair trade-off.
First of all 15k stamina is a lot,
Second dk's have buildt in block cost reduction and probably you are using s&b like 90% of the dk's.
A squishy magika set up with 10-14k stamina is going to suffer from it, honestly is not a problem for me con usually i break los to counter Soul assault.
15k stamina is not a lot for a PvP magDK. Below about 14k you just don't have enough for CC breaking and blocking and the occasional dodge. But I run 11k stam on my magplar and don't have a problem with SA either. I usually just kill the person while they are casting it, because most of the time they are squishies. There are very few builds that run really strong SAs or time them properly. It just makes people panic.
I am FAR more likely to die to a well-timed Dawnbreaker, and DB doesn't need to be nerfed either.
SA is the counter to dodge-dodge-dodge-miss-dodge. I get that people don't like that there are hard counters. There's an entire class that counters magDK.
But the game seems to be headed more toward rock-paper-scissors each patch.
Your Magplar runs S&B or has ward equipped?
Destro magplar; sometimes S&B back bar sometimes resto. Never runs a ward. The first damage tick will tell you if you need to be worried or if it's a SA that's weak and you can go on the offensive. Of course magplar does have a strong burst heal to pop when needed.
Now if 3 people are SA'ing you from the safety of a zerg, that certainly sucks but getting zerged always does.1 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
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No, I meant it's strong agaisnt the singler player, of course, but pales on group v group compared to pretty much any other ult.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Ok, so first I never said it was the only change, tho surely the most important one. Second, you don't know who you are talking to, so please refrain to call me out, or if you want, and play on Pc Na, add me. @San.tii and we can further discuss how unskillful I am.
It's not useless on permablockers, and even if it were it doesn't really matters, you just target someone else. And you can't increase the dmge is far too strong now. Making interruptable will legit destroy the skill, or you don't remember. A single crushing shock will counter an ultimate, thats ridiculous.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Lol, no reason? How about that would leave the skill complete useless, like you know, it was when that was the case. Only change the ult needs is to space the ticks a bit so it doesn't drain too much Stam. And that is it.hmsdragonfly wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »
Whooptydoo... you survived SA with one of the more tanky builds in the game.WaltherCarraway wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »It takes you merely 18k stam to block a full soul assault.
My magicka dk pvp build has that amount of stam which is also capable to accomodate more situations (roll dodge, break free, that usually require more stam on magic toon)
EDIT: words in bracket for clearer concept.
EDIT2: I'm not even running full sturdy. Including one hand and shield passive + 1 sturdy; my block cost reduction is 40% flat.
Today I sucessfully blocked two Soul Assaults (different times different players). Both kinda deleted my stam pool but I largely survived that blow with the spec I quoted above. Blocking that thing will mitigate at least 50% of damage even your don't have protection buffs with you. I can't manage to find stam draining diagram for my two blocking aforementioned.
If you think 5 light spinner and 2 heavy bloodspawn plus a sword and board all divines cept head is sturdy, is one of a more tanky build. Then you might need to look carefully into those real tanky build.
By the way the tankiest build is double even triple ward spamming sorc...
EDIT: sword and boards are part of silk of the sun set.
You use S&B and have 18k stam. So yes, you can block it with ease. Now, have you tried to block it with a bow in medium armour?
I thought the OP was talking about how overpowered and unblockable it is. Well if you have to block that with bow how about go cloak after 2 secs? I bet 2s of blocking won't drain 18K stam even on bow right?
Ummm, how does a stamsorc or a stamplar go to cloak?
It's not "overpowered", it is poorly designed, as in, it is useless against certain builds and extremely powerful against other builds.
stealth pot, or try to find something to block LOS.
I partially agree with your point (about the design).
I am not a zergling, so no stealth pot for me, i need speed pots. There's no way to block LOS in BG because if you camp LOS the enemy will just take the objective and win.
That's why it should be interruptible.
It is already useless against permablock and shield-stacking builds. Adjusting the stamina drain is nice, but it will be even more useless against permablock builds, unless that's how you want it to be. My proposal is to increase the damage tick through block and make it interruptible, so that it actually promotes skillful plays. I don't use that poorly designed skill, but if you just want to just reduce the stam it takes to block, I will take it, but I believe my proposal might be better for you.
You dont remember either. If you did, then you would know that interrupt wasnt the only thing that was changed.
And no its absolutely not ridiculous. Thats called skill. Something u are unfamiliar with. A lot of abilities, ults in the game can be completely countered by one skill/mechanic. That doesnt make them useless. Its for people to react and use their brain to either defend using their counters or find a way around the counter when on offense.
And finally, there is no display on skill being able to iterrupt a 4.5s channel, gap close, bash, finished, crushing shock, finished. This goes for you @hmsdragonfly, and @DDuke too. You are asking for a counter, but you are not considering that picking this ult actually means to give up on stronger, and more useful on group play than Soul Assault, like literally any other is. Of course for 1vX this skill's pretty strong, but for group v group? nah dude, almost anythng else is better. Someone's Sa you? your team focus him and he's dead or got to stop.
There is absolutely a better display of skills in bashing soul assault than casting it on a dude who happens to not run S&B and get a free kill for yourself. You have to set up a burst combo and then outplay your opponent if you want to kill them with DB, Leap or Meteor, but that's not what you have to do with SA, you just cast it and it's a guaranteed kill. Bashing SA is like bashing Jesus Beam. I remember watching Jack Danielle's stream, and there I witnessed the most skillful play in ESO that I have ever seen: He was fighting a Magplar, he got the Magplar to 50%, but he purposely let his own health to go to 25%. Normally Magplars would cast BoL and get back to full health when they get to that low, but seeing Jack at 25% HP, instead of casting BoL, the Magplar casted Jesus Beam instead, but then Jack bashed the jesus beam then immediately burst the Magplar down with his insane combo with perfect animation canceling. The whole stream was like "D:", ":O", "o.O", "OMG that bash". That's exactly why ZOS should promote that kind of plays instead of all the cheese like viper tremor or SA.
Soul assault is good for 1vX? What dude? Soul assault is the pinnacle of Xv1 skills, like literally, if you 1vX you don't want to be locked into a 4-second animation, the zergs will kill you in less than 2 seconds. It's not even strong in dueling, because in dueling most people run heavy S&B anyway and it deals like 10 damage to those kind of guys. But it's very powerful in Xv1 because if you happen to be somewhere without LOS (you get ambushed by zergs, you are chasing scrolls, you see 2 people but suddenly 5 more appear), it's the best Xv1 ability that you can get: it snares you, slows you down, the only thing you can do is to block and the others will just jump on you and you die. Basically if someone SA you while you are 1vXing you are pretty much dead. Ask any 1vXer, SA is their worse enemy, even more frustrating to deal with than Xv1 snipers. Group v group? It's insanely strong in BG, because you can't camp LOS in BG, and there are tons of people running around in medium armour (because of no CP), so you can get free kill after free kill, just randomly cast it on a dude and if he doesn't run S&B he is dead.
Again, increase the damage tick through block to make it more viable against permablock builds, then make it interruptible. Promote skillful plays, don't promote cheese.
And no, it's not the same as jesus beam, you can spam that. And contrary of what you seem to think, a succesful Soul assault (when numbers are even, not zergin) got to be set up, can't be used randomly, that's completly useless. So yes, it requires far more skill than casting a crushing shock, or gap closer+bash. If SA would be interruptable, it would literally be worthless unless the 1vX scenarios which at that point, honestly, many ults will serve the same purpose.When the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.3 -
EmEm_Oh✭✭✭✭✭Wow... there are people actually defending Soul Assault?
I guess these people have never played a medium armor character and just blatantly overlook how it guarantees a free kill on those players.
Maybe I'm an exception, but I'm far from a good player and I'm just saying SA isn't that bad.
I'm not "defending" it as it is just another ultimate I use on rotation depending on the PvP atmosphere or even PvE, but what if I don't like the way you stack your armor and procs with your race? Maybe we should nerf your race skills, too? I just don't see how nerfing SA is going to solve anything.
The problem I see, is some players know the mechanics better than 90% of the rest of the players out there, and then the skill they use gets nerfed just because they knew how to exploit it in certain situations.
From my experience, I just avoid those people and/or run with a group that knows how to counter the mechanics and wipe them out.
I think this should be more of a focus. How to educate players on mechanics and encouraging more tactical play in PvP with groups, than just going out and killing people and when you get wiped repeatedly, you get frustrated.
I can understand that. I've been there. And there have been some times where a faction is just too good for that particular time of day, I have no groups running to help me, and I just have to call it and play some PvE. It sucks but that's the way it is sometimes. Other days, my faction is running them over with relentless fury and I certainly take advantage of that moment and it makes up for the frustration the day before.
Edited by EmEm_Oh on August 16, 2017 5:33PM0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
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No, I meant it's strong agaisnt the singler player, of course, but pales on group v group compared to pretty much any other ult.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Ok, so first I never said it was the only change, tho surely the most important one. Second, you don't know who you are talking to, so please refrain to call me out, or if you want, and play on Pc Na, add me. @San.tii and we can further discuss how unskillful I am.
It's not useless on permablockers, and even if it were it doesn't really matters, you just target someone else. And you can't increase the dmge is far too strong now. Making interruptable will legit destroy the skill, or you don't remember. A single crushing shock will counter an ultimate, thats ridiculous.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Lol, no reason? How about that would leave the skill complete useless, like you know, it was when that was the case. Only change the ult needs is to space the ticks a bit so it doesn't drain too much Stam. And that is it.hmsdragonfly wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »
Whooptydoo... you survived SA with one of the more tanky builds in the game.WaltherCarraway wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »It takes you merely 18k stam to block a full soul assault.
My magicka dk pvp build has that amount of stam which is also capable to accomodate more situations (roll dodge, break free, that usually require more stam on magic toon)
EDIT: words in bracket for clearer concept.
EDIT2: I'm not even running full sturdy. Including one hand and shield passive + 1 sturdy; my block cost reduction is 40% flat.
Today I sucessfully blocked two Soul Assaults (different times different players). Both kinda deleted my stam pool but I largely survived that blow with the spec I quoted above. Blocking that thing will mitigate at least 50% of damage even your don't have protection buffs with you. I can't manage to find stam draining diagram for my two blocking aforementioned.
If you think 5 light spinner and 2 heavy bloodspawn plus a sword and board all divines cept head is sturdy, is one of a more tanky build. Then you might need to look carefully into those real tanky build.
By the way the tankiest build is double even triple ward spamming sorc...
EDIT: sword and boards are part of silk of the sun set.
You use S&B and have 18k stam. So yes, you can block it with ease. Now, have you tried to block it with a bow in medium armour?
I thought the OP was talking about how overpowered and unblockable it is. Well if you have to block that with bow how about go cloak after 2 secs? I bet 2s of blocking won't drain 18K stam even on bow right?
Ummm, how does a stamsorc or a stamplar go to cloak?
It's not "overpowered", it is poorly designed, as in, it is useless against certain builds and extremely powerful against other builds.
stealth pot, or try to find something to block LOS.
I partially agree with your point (about the design).
I am not a zergling, so no stealth pot for me, i need speed pots. There's no way to block LOS in BG because if you camp LOS the enemy will just take the objective and win.
That's why it should be interruptible.
It is already useless against permablock and shield-stacking builds. Adjusting the stamina drain is nice, but it will be even more useless against permablock builds, unless that's how you want it to be. My proposal is to increase the damage tick through block and make it interruptible, so that it actually promotes skillful plays. I don't use that poorly designed skill, but if you just want to just reduce the stam it takes to block, I will take it, but I believe my proposal might be better for you.
You dont remember either. If you did, then you would know that interrupt wasnt the only thing that was changed.
And no its absolutely not ridiculous. Thats called skill. Something u are unfamiliar with. A lot of abilities, ults in the game can be completely countered by one skill/mechanic. That doesnt make them useless. Its for people to react and use their brain to either defend using their counters or find a way around the counter when on offense.
And finally, there is no display on skill being able to iterrupt a 4.5s channel, gap close, bash, finished, crushing shock, finished. This goes for you @hmsdragonfly, and @DDuke too. You are asking for a counter, but you are not considering that picking this ult actually means to give up on stronger, and more useful on group play than Soul Assault, like literally any other is. Of course for 1vX this skill's pretty strong, but for group v group? nah dude, almost anythng else is better. Someone's Sa you? your team focus him and he's dead or got to stop.
There is absolutely a better display of skills in bashing soul assault than casting it on a dude who happens to not run S&B and get a free kill for yourself. You have to set up a burst combo and then outplay your opponent if you want to kill them with DB, Leap or Meteor, but that's not what you have to do with SA, you just cast it and it's a guaranteed kill. Bashing SA is like bashing Jesus Beam. I remember watching Jack Danielle's stream, and there I witnessed the most skillful play in ESO that I have ever seen: He was fighting a Magplar, he got the Magplar to 50%, but he purposely let his own health to go to 25%. Normally Magplars would cast BoL and get back to full health when they get to that low, but seeing Jack at 25% HP, instead of casting BoL, the Magplar casted Jesus Beam instead, but then Jack bashed the jesus beam then immediately burst the Magplar down with his insane combo with perfect animation canceling. The whole stream was like "D:", ":O", "o.O", "OMG that bash". That's exactly why ZOS should promote that kind of plays instead of all the cheese like viper tremor or SA.
Soul assault is good for 1vX? What dude? Soul assault is the pinnacle of Xv1 skills, like literally, if you 1vX you don't want to be locked into a 4-second animation, the zergs will kill you in less than 2 seconds. It's not even strong in dueling, because in dueling most people run heavy S&B anyway and it deals like 10 damage to those kind of guys. But it's very powerful in Xv1 because if you happen to be somewhere without LOS (you get ambushed by zergs, you are chasing scrolls, you see 2 people but suddenly 5 more appear), it's the best Xv1 ability that you can get: it snares you, slows you down, the only thing you can do is to block and the others will just jump on you and you die. Basically if someone SA you while you are 1vXing you are pretty much dead. Ask any 1vXer, SA is their worse enemy, even more frustrating to deal with than Xv1 snipers. Group v group? It's insanely strong in BG, because you can't camp LOS in BG, and there are tons of people running around in medium armour (because of no CP), so you can get free kill after free kill, just randomly cast it on a dude and if he doesn't run S&B he is dead.
Again, increase the damage tick through block to make it more viable against permablock builds, then make it interruptible. Promote skillful plays, don't promote cheese.
And no, it's not the same as jesus beam, you can spam that. And contrary of what you seem to think, a succesful Soul assault (when numbers are even, not zergin) got to be set up, can't be used randomly, that's completly useless. So yes, it requires far more skill than casting a crushing shock, or gap closer+bash. If SA would be interruptable, it would literally be worthless unless the 1vX scenarios which at that point, honestly, many ults will serve the same purpose.
@SanTii.92 while I agree with you, maybe there can be a compromise? Already SA doesn't kill but a minority of the player base. I honestly think these same players won't be capable of bashing (or using crushing shock etc) to counter. As is, if I use it, it's only on an identified squishy yolo player.
I think we can give a little for them, don't you?0 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
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I think the snare should be reduce, and the ticks space apart so consumes less stamina while blocking. But interruptable, no. Anything will be more balanced than that.Waffennacht wrote: »
No, I meant it's strong agaisnt the singler player, of course, but pales on group v group compared to pretty much any other ult.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Ok, so first I never said it was the only change, tho surely the most important one. Second, you don't know who you are talking to, so please refrain to call me out, or if you want, and play on Pc Na, add me. @San.tii and we can further discuss how unskillful I am.
It's not useless on permablockers, and even if it were it doesn't really matters, you just target someone else. And you can't increase the dmge is far too strong now. Making interruptable will legit destroy the skill, or you don't remember. A single crushing shock will counter an ultimate, thats ridiculous.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Lol, no reason? How about that would leave the skill complete useless, like you know, it was when that was the case. Only change the ult needs is to space the ticks a bit so it doesn't drain too much Stam. And that is it.hmsdragonfly wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »
Whooptydoo... you survived SA with one of the more tanky builds in the game.WaltherCarraway wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »It takes you merely 18k stam to block a full soul assault.
My magicka dk pvp build has that amount of stam which is also capable to accomodate more situations (roll dodge, break free, that usually require more stam on magic toon)
EDIT: words in bracket for clearer concept.
EDIT2: I'm not even running full sturdy. Including one hand and shield passive + 1 sturdy; my block cost reduction is 40% flat.
Today I sucessfully blocked two Soul Assaults (different times different players). Both kinda deleted my stam pool but I largely survived that blow with the spec I quoted above. Blocking that thing will mitigate at least 50% of damage even your don't have protection buffs with you. I can't manage to find stam draining diagram for my two blocking aforementioned.
If you think 5 light spinner and 2 heavy bloodspawn plus a sword and board all divines cept head is sturdy, is one of a more tanky build. Then you might need to look carefully into those real tanky build.
By the way the tankiest build is double even triple ward spamming sorc...
EDIT: sword and boards are part of silk of the sun set.
You use S&B and have 18k stam. So yes, you can block it with ease. Now, have you tried to block it with a bow in medium armour?
I thought the OP was talking about how overpowered and unblockable it is. Well if you have to block that with bow how about go cloak after 2 secs? I bet 2s of blocking won't drain 18K stam even on bow right?
Ummm, how does a stamsorc or a stamplar go to cloak?
It's not "overpowered", it is poorly designed, as in, it is useless against certain builds and extremely powerful against other builds.
stealth pot, or try to find something to block LOS.
I partially agree with your point (about the design).
I am not a zergling, so no stealth pot for me, i need speed pots. There's no way to block LOS in BG because if you camp LOS the enemy will just take the objective and win.
That's why it should be interruptible.
It is already useless against permablock and shield-stacking builds. Adjusting the stamina drain is nice, but it will be even more useless against permablock builds, unless that's how you want it to be. My proposal is to increase the damage tick through block and make it interruptible, so that it actually promotes skillful plays. I don't use that poorly designed skill, but if you just want to just reduce the stam it takes to block, I will take it, but I believe my proposal might be better for you.
You dont remember either. If you did, then you would know that interrupt wasnt the only thing that was changed.
And no its absolutely not ridiculous. Thats called skill. Something u are unfamiliar with. A lot of abilities, ults in the game can be completely countered by one skill/mechanic. That doesnt make them useless. Its for people to react and use their brain to either defend using their counters or find a way around the counter when on offense.
And finally, there is no display on skill being able to iterrupt a 4.5s channel, gap close, bash, finished, crushing shock, finished. This goes for you @hmsdragonfly, and @DDuke too. You are asking for a counter, but you are not considering that picking this ult actually means to give up on stronger, and more useful on group play than Soul Assault, like literally any other is. Of course for 1vX this skill's pretty strong, but for group v group? nah dude, almost anythng else is better. Someone's Sa you? your team focus him and he's dead or got to stop.
There is absolutely a better display of skills in bashing soul assault than casting it on a dude who happens to not run S&B and get a free kill for yourself. You have to set up a burst combo and then outplay your opponent if you want to kill them with DB, Leap or Meteor, but that's not what you have to do with SA, you just cast it and it's a guaranteed kill. Bashing SA is like bashing Jesus Beam. I remember watching Jack Danielle's stream, and there I witnessed the most skillful play in ESO that I have ever seen: He was fighting a Magplar, he got the Magplar to 50%, but he purposely let his own health to go to 25%. Normally Magplars would cast BoL and get back to full health when they get to that low, but seeing Jack at 25% HP, instead of casting BoL, the Magplar casted Jesus Beam instead, but then Jack bashed the jesus beam then immediately burst the Magplar down with his insane combo with perfect animation canceling. The whole stream was like "D:", ":O", "o.O", "OMG that bash". That's exactly why ZOS should promote that kind of plays instead of all the cheese like viper tremor or SA.
Soul assault is good for 1vX? What dude? Soul assault is the pinnacle of Xv1 skills, like literally, if you 1vX you don't want to be locked into a 4-second animation, the zergs will kill you in less than 2 seconds. It's not even strong in dueling, because in dueling most people run heavy S&B anyway and it deals like 10 damage to those kind of guys. But it's very powerful in Xv1 because if you happen to be somewhere without LOS (you get ambushed by zergs, you are chasing scrolls, you see 2 people but suddenly 5 more appear), it's the best Xv1 ability that you can get: it snares you, slows you down, the only thing you can do is to block and the others will just jump on you and you die. Basically if someone SA you while you are 1vXing you are pretty much dead. Ask any 1vXer, SA is their worse enemy, even more frustrating to deal with than Xv1 snipers. Group v group? It's insanely strong in BG, because you can't camp LOS in BG, and there are tons of people running around in medium armour (because of no CP), so you can get free kill after free kill, just randomly cast it on a dude and if he doesn't run S&B he is dead.
Again, increase the damage tick through block to make it more viable against permablock builds, then make it interruptible. Promote skillful plays, don't promote cheese.
And no, it's not the same as jesus beam, you can spam that. And contrary of what you seem to think, a succesful Soul assault (when numbers are even, not zergin) got to be set up, can't be used randomly, that's completly useless. So yes, it requires far more skill than casting a crushing shock, or gap closer+bash. If SA would be interruptable, it would literally be worthless unless the 1vX scenarios which at that point, honestly, many ults will serve the same purpose.
@SanTii.92 while I agree with you, maybe there can be a compromise? Already SA doesn't kill but a minority of the player base. I honestly think these same players won't be capable of bashing (or using crushing shock etc) to counter. As is, if I use it, it's only on an identified squishy yolo player.
I think we can give a little for them, don't you?When the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.2 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I think the snare should be reduce, and the ticks space apart so consumes less stamina while blocking. But interruptable, no. Anything will be more balanced than that.Waffennacht wrote: »
No, I meant it's strong agaisnt the singler player, of course, but pales on group v group compared to pretty much any other ult.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Ok, so first I never said it was the only change, tho surely the most important one. Second, you don't know who you are talking to, so please refrain to call me out, or if you want, and play on Pc Na, add me. @San.tii and we can further discuss how unskillful I am.
It's not useless on permablockers, and even if it were it doesn't really matters, you just target someone else. And you can't increase the dmge is far too strong now. Making interruptable will legit destroy the skill, or you don't remember. A single crushing shock will counter an ultimate, thats ridiculous.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Lol, no reason? How about that would leave the skill complete useless, like you know, it was when that was the case. Only change the ult needs is to space the ticks a bit so it doesn't drain too much Stam. And that is it.hmsdragonfly wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »
Whooptydoo... you survived SA with one of the more tanky builds in the game.WaltherCarraway wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »It takes you merely 18k stam to block a full soul assault.
My magicka dk pvp build has that amount of stam which is also capable to accomodate more situations (roll dodge, break free, that usually require more stam on magic toon)
EDIT: words in bracket for clearer concept.
EDIT2: I'm not even running full sturdy. Including one hand and shield passive + 1 sturdy; my block cost reduction is 40% flat.
Today I sucessfully blocked two Soul Assaults (different times different players). Both kinda deleted my stam pool but I largely survived that blow with the spec I quoted above. Blocking that thing will mitigate at least 50% of damage even your don't have protection buffs with you. I can't manage to find stam draining diagram for my two blocking aforementioned.
If you think 5 light spinner and 2 heavy bloodspawn plus a sword and board all divines cept head is sturdy, is one of a more tanky build. Then you might need to look carefully into those real tanky build.
By the way the tankiest build is double even triple ward spamming sorc...
EDIT: sword and boards are part of silk of the sun set.
You use S&B and have 18k stam. So yes, you can block it with ease. Now, have you tried to block it with a bow in medium armour?
I thought the OP was talking about how overpowered and unblockable it is. Well if you have to block that with bow how about go cloak after 2 secs? I bet 2s of blocking won't drain 18K stam even on bow right?
Ummm, how does a stamsorc or a stamplar go to cloak?
It's not "overpowered", it is poorly designed, as in, it is useless against certain builds and extremely powerful against other builds.
stealth pot, or try to find something to block LOS.
I partially agree with your point (about the design).
I am not a zergling, so no stealth pot for me, i need speed pots. There's no way to block LOS in BG because if you camp LOS the enemy will just take the objective and win.
That's why it should be interruptible.
It is already useless against permablock and shield-stacking builds. Adjusting the stamina drain is nice, but it will be even more useless against permablock builds, unless that's how you want it to be. My proposal is to increase the damage tick through block and make it interruptible, so that it actually promotes skillful plays. I don't use that poorly designed skill, but if you just want to just reduce the stam it takes to block, I will take it, but I believe my proposal might be better for you.
You dont remember either. If you did, then you would know that interrupt wasnt the only thing that was changed.
And no its absolutely not ridiculous. Thats called skill. Something u are unfamiliar with. A lot of abilities, ults in the game can be completely countered by one skill/mechanic. That doesnt make them useless. Its for people to react and use their brain to either defend using their counters or find a way around the counter when on offense.
And finally, there is no display on skill being able to iterrupt a 4.5s channel, gap close, bash, finished, crushing shock, finished. This goes for you @hmsdragonfly, and @DDuke too. You are asking for a counter, but you are not considering that picking this ult actually means to give up on stronger, and more useful on group play than Soul Assault, like literally any other is. Of course for 1vX this skill's pretty strong, but for group v group? nah dude, almost anythng else is better. Someone's Sa you? your team focus him and he's dead or got to stop.
There is absolutely a better display of skills in bashing soul assault than casting it on a dude who happens to not run S&B and get a free kill for yourself. You have to set up a burst combo and then outplay your opponent if you want to kill them with DB, Leap or Meteor, but that's not what you have to do with SA, you just cast it and it's a guaranteed kill. Bashing SA is like bashing Jesus Beam. I remember watching Jack Danielle's stream, and there I witnessed the most skillful play in ESO that I have ever seen: He was fighting a Magplar, he got the Magplar to 50%, but he purposely let his own health to go to 25%. Normally Magplars would cast BoL and get back to full health when they get to that low, but seeing Jack at 25% HP, instead of casting BoL, the Magplar casted Jesus Beam instead, but then Jack bashed the jesus beam then immediately burst the Magplar down with his insane combo with perfect animation canceling. The whole stream was like "D:", ":O", "o.O", "OMG that bash". That's exactly why ZOS should promote that kind of plays instead of all the cheese like viper tremor or SA.
Soul assault is good for 1vX? What dude? Soul assault is the pinnacle of Xv1 skills, like literally, if you 1vX you don't want to be locked into a 4-second animation, the zergs will kill you in less than 2 seconds. It's not even strong in dueling, because in dueling most people run heavy S&B anyway and it deals like 10 damage to those kind of guys. But it's very powerful in Xv1 because if you happen to be somewhere without LOS (you get ambushed by zergs, you are chasing scrolls, you see 2 people but suddenly 5 more appear), it's the best Xv1 ability that you can get: it snares you, slows you down, the only thing you can do is to block and the others will just jump on you and you die. Basically if someone SA you while you are 1vXing you are pretty much dead. Ask any 1vXer, SA is their worse enemy, even more frustrating to deal with than Xv1 snipers. Group v group? It's insanely strong in BG, because you can't camp LOS in BG, and there are tons of people running around in medium armour (because of no CP), so you can get free kill after free kill, just randomly cast it on a dude and if he doesn't run S&B he is dead.
Again, increase the damage tick through block to make it more viable against permablock builds, then make it interruptible. Promote skillful plays, don't promote cheese.
And no, it's not the same as jesus beam, you can spam that. And contrary of what you seem to think, a succesful Soul assault (when numbers are even, not zergin) got to be set up, can't be used randomly, that's completly useless. So yes, it requires far more skill than casting a crushing shock, or gap closer+bash. If SA would be interruptable, it would literally be worthless unless the 1vX scenarios which at that point, honestly, many ults will serve the same purpose.
@SanTii.92 while I agree with you, maybe there can be a compromise? Already SA doesn't kill but a minority of the player base. I honestly think these same players won't be capable of bashing (or using crushing shock etc) to counter. As is, if I use it, it's only on an identified squishy yolo player.
I think we can give a little for them, don't you?
Hey a compromise, would you "SA is OP" crowd like that?0 -
Nutshotz✭✭✭✭How is it when I'm on 4 sturdy, 3 impen on my magplar or mDK I can block soul assault and still have remaining stam left over and nearly 3/4 HP.... Maybe a [snip] issue...... vs a stam nb who cries you soul assaulted me when most ran 3 proc sets last patch. No offense get off the pedestal!
A lot of us are trying to explain the mechanics of soul assault and how to counter it and yet people still think it's OP as hell when in fact it needs a BUFF! I'm not gonna try and explain again why this ult does not need a nerf and that the people crying for a nerf are either new players, low HP players, or players that are getting it spammed on them from people in a massive group by a bunch of bimbos < in that case it would be OP but in any other situation not OP! >
Just an example, an experienced player would not use soul assault on a target that is not less than give or take 25-40% now a inexperienced player will spam that ult like a wet dream going out of style. Big difference if that makes sense. Anywho this topic is old just like the eye of the storm nerf thread
Both threads are pure [snip] issues. Nothing more nothing less.
Oh and if you really want this ult nerfed give actual valid evidence. On actual experienced players not low CP players not inexperienced pvp players. PvP players who know how to counter the ult, I'm 90% positive you will be like holy cow it isn't that powerful of an ult now that I figured out the mechanics and counters to it!
But until than keep that nerf this nerf that garbage in your top right drawer!
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on June 14, 2026 1:34PM1 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭
No, I meant it's strong agaisnt the singler player, of course, but pales on group v group compared to pretty much any other ult.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Ok, so first I never said it was the only change, tho surely the most important one. Second, you don't know who you are talking to, so please refrain to call me out, or if you want, and play on Pc Na, add me. .tii and we can further discuss how unskillful I am.
It's not useless on permablockers, and even if it were it doesn't really matters, you just target someone else. And you can't increase the dmge is far too strong now. Making interruptable will legit destroy the skill, or you don't remember. A single crushing shock will counter an ultimate, thats ridiculous.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Lol, no reason? How about that would leave the skill complete useless, like you know, it was when that was the case. Only change the ult needs is to space the ticks a bit so it doesn't drain too much Stam. And that is it.hmsdragonfly wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »
Whooptydoo... you survived SA with one of the more tanky builds in the game.WaltherCarraway wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »It takes you merely 18k stam to block a full soul assault.
My magicka dk pvp build has that amount of stam which is also capable to accomodate more situations (roll dodge, break free, that usually require more stam on magic toon)
EDIT: words in bracket for clearer concept.
EDIT2: I'm not even running full sturdy. Including one hand and shield passive + 1 sturdy; my block cost reduction is 40% flat.
Today I sucessfully blocked two Soul Assaults (different times different players). Both kinda deleted my stam pool but I largely survived that blow with the spec I quoted above. Blocking that thing will mitigate at least 50% of damage even your don't have protection buffs with you. I can't manage to find stam draining diagram for my two blocking aforementioned.
If you think 5 light spinner and 2 heavy bloodspawn plus a sword and board all divines cept head is sturdy, is one of a more tanky build. Then you might need to look carefully into those real tanky build.
By the way the tankiest build is double even triple ward spamming sorc...
EDIT: sword and boards are part of silk of the sun set.
You use S&B and have 18k stam. So yes, you can block it with ease. Now, have you tried to block it with a bow in medium armour?
I thought the OP was talking about how overpowered and unblockable it is. Well if you have to block that with bow how about go cloak after 2 secs? I bet 2s of blocking won't drain 18K stam even on bow right?
Ummm, how does a stamsorc or a stamplar go to cloak?
It's not "overpowered", it is poorly designed, as in, it is useless against certain builds and extremely powerful against other builds.
stealth pot, or try to find something to block LOS.
I partially agree with your point (about the design).
I am not a zergling, so no stealth pot for me, i need speed pots. There's no way to block LOS in BG because if you camp LOS the enemy will just take the objective and win.
That's why it should be interruptible.
It is already useless against permablock and shield-stacking builds. Adjusting the stamina drain is nice, but it will be even more useless against permablock builds, unless that's how you want it to be. My proposal is to increase the damage tick through block and make it interruptible, so that it actually promotes skillful plays. I don't use that poorly designed skill, but if you just want to just reduce the stam it takes to block, I will take it, but I believe my proposal might be better for you.
You dont remember either. If you did, then you would know that interrupt wasnt the only thing that was changed.
And no its absolutely not ridiculous. Thats called skill. Something u are unfamiliar with. A lot of abilities, ults in the game can be completely countered by one skill/mechanic. That doesnt make them useless. Its for people to react and use their brain to either defend using their counters or find a way around the counter when on offense.
And finally, there is no display on skill being able to iterrupt a 4.5s channel, gap close, bash, finished, crushing shock, finished. This goes for you , and too. You are asking for a counter, but you are not considering that picking this ult actually means to give up on stronger, and more useful on group play than Soul Assault, like literally any other is. Of course for 1vX this skill's pretty strong, but for group v group? nah dude, almost anythng else is better. Someone's Sa you? your team focus him and he's dead or got to stop.
There is absolutely a better display of skills in bashing soul assault than casting it on a dude who happens to not run S&B and get a free kill for yourself. You have to set up a burst combo and then outplay your opponent if you want to kill them with DB, Leap or Meteor, but that's not what you have to do with SA, you just cast it and it's a guaranteed kill. Bashing SA is like bashing Jesus Beam. I remember watching Jack Danielle's stream, and there I witnessed the most skillful play in ESO that I have ever seen: He was fighting a Magplar, he got the Magplar to 50%, but he purposely let his own health to go to 25%. Normally Magplars would cast BoL and get back to full health when they get to that low, but seeing Jack at 25% HP, instead of casting BoL, the Magplar casted Jesus Beam instead, but then Jack bashed the jesus beam then immediately burst the Magplar down with his insane combo with perfect animation canceling. The whole stream was like "D:", ":O", "o.O", "OMG that bash". That's exactly why ZOS should promote that kind of plays instead of all the cheese like viper tremor or SA.
Soul assault is good for 1vX? What dude? Soul assault is the pinnacle of Xv1 skills, like literally, if you 1vX you don't want to be locked into a 4-second animation, the zergs will kill you in less than 2 seconds. It's not even strong in dueling, because in dueling most people run heavy S&B anyway and it deals like 10 damage to those kind of guys. But it's very powerful in Xv1 because if you happen to be somewhere without LOS (you get ambushed by zergs, you are chasing scrolls, you see 2 people but suddenly 5 more appear), it's the best Xv1 ability that you can get: it snares you, slows you down, the only thing you can do is to block and the others will just jump on you and you die. Basically if someone SA you while you are 1vXing you are pretty much dead. Ask any 1vXer, SA is their worse enemy, even more frustrating to deal with than Xv1 snipers. Group v group? It's insanely strong in BG, because you can't camp LOS in BG, and there are tons of people running around in medium armour (because of no CP), so you can get free kill after free kill, just randomly cast it on a dude and if he doesn't run S&B he is dead.
Again, increase the damage tick through block to make it more viable against permablock builds, then make it interruptible. Promote skillful plays, don't promote cheese.
And no, it's not the same as jesus beam, you can spam that. And contrary of what you seem to think, a succesful Soul assault (when numbers are even, not zergin) got to be set up, can't be used randomly, that's completly useless. So yes, it requires far more skill than casting a crushing shock, or gap closer+bash. If SA would be interruptable, it would literally be worthless unless the 1vX scenarios which at that point, honestly, many ults will serve the same purpose.
Of course it's strong against single player, if by group v group, you mean BG, then it's insanely strong in BG, because you can't camp LOS in BG, and there are tons of people running around in medium armour (because of no CP). Other than that, sure, your opponents can focus on you but your friends can also focus on the dude who you are beaming. Let's assume it's a 4v4 fight, you will get jumped on by 3 people while the guy who has to hold block will be attacked by 4 people. So, your victim will likely die first.
SA is extremely cheap, less than 100 ults. By set up, you mean, cast it midfight? As long as you cast it midfight, it's a guaranteed kill on non-S&B users. The layer of complexity is extremely thin compared to things like DB, Leap and Meteor. Crushing shock? Sure, make it so that SA is only interruptible with bash. Again, there is absolutely a better display of skills in bashing soul assault than casting it on a dude who happens to not run S&B and get a free kill on non-S&B medium armour users. You have to set up a burst combo and then outplay your opponent if you want to kill them with DB, Leap or Meteor, but that's not what you have to do with SA, you just cast it and it's a guaranteed kill. Bashing SA is like bashing Jesus Beam. I remember watching Jack Danielle's stream, and there I witnessed the most skillful play in ESO that I have ever seen: He was fighting a Magplar, he got the Magplar to 50%, but he purposely let his own health to go to 25%. Normally Magplars would cast BoL and get back to full health when they get to that low, but seeing Jack at 25% HP, instead of casting BoL, the Magplar casted Jesus Beam instead, but then Jack bashed the jesus beam then immediately burst the Magplar down with his insane combo with perfect animation canceling. The whole stream was like "D:", ":O", "o.O", "OMG that bash". That's exactly why ZOS should promote that kind of plays instead of all the cheese like viper tremor or SA.
Again, there's no way in hell is this a 1vX ability, it is the pinnacle of Xv1 skills. It would not be worthless if you increase the damage tick through block to make it more effective against permablock builds. You can also increase the base damage for all I care, as long as it is interruptible with bash, so there will be a trade off, high damage for chance to be bashed.Edited by hmsdragonfly on August 16, 2017 6:06PMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »@pieratsos lol, your medium armor yolo build can't survive SA. Sorry but you're not gonna convince the majority of players that know how to play and counter that it's OP.
You can get a few 3-5 stars to agree with you, but any long term players know.
Your build is bad and you should feel bad
You've been presenting fake numbers as pure facts to boost ur argument, making stupid comparisons that make no sense, gave an example that proves the exact opposite of what u are saying, picking up only the factors that u see fit to boost ur argument because you are too bad at facing medium armor builds and u consider 2 GCD for 20k shields not a defensive opportunity.
The only one who should feel bad here its you and you are right. Any long term player will know after reading ur posts.
As far as the 3-5 star players go. LOL. I didnt know this is facebook and we are hunting for likes. You are probably in the wrong forums. But if u actually judge player by their stars on the forums well..... u are more dumb than i thought.Edited by pieratsos on August 16, 2017 5:58PM0 -
Mustard✭✭✭✭My favorite is the undodgeble cliff racer spam + soul assault. Just remove the snare already from soul assault.0
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Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »@pieratsos lol, your medium armor yolo build can't survive SA. Sorry but you're not gonna convince the majority of players that know how to play and counter that it's OP.
You can get a few 3-5 stars to agree with you, but any long term players know.
Your build is bad and you should feel bad
You've been presenting fake numbers as pure facts to boost ur argument, making stupid comparisons that make no sense, gave an example that proves the exact opposite of what u are saying, picking up only the factors that u see fit to boost ur argument because you are too bad at facing medium armor builds and u consider 2 GCD for 20k shields not a defensive opportunity.
The only one who should feel bad here its you and you are right. Any long term player will know after reading ur posts.
Just now read that did you?1 -
Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭My favorite is the undodgeble cliff racer spam + soul assault. Just remove the snare already from soul assault.
Try slamming the ground before firing Soul Assault and have the Shalk pop up while it's channelling"Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU1