Maintenance for the week of December 29:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – December 29
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – December 29
Tremorscale and Selene are still overperforming
-
Vetixio✭✭✭✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »I whispered this procblade 'nice proc sets' after they killed me then they were like 'nice health bar' then I said 'are you really tryna compare a health bar to free damage' then they didn't reply after that I think they realised they're a scrub who clutches on Selene's and Viper to win cause their skill damage was hella low
anyone who whispers someone in pvp and uses terminology like scrub is not any better then the users of proc sets imho.
I didn't call them a scrub in the whisper lolPìerre - Breton Vampire Templar, Grand Overlord. Erádàn - Bosmer Templar, Warlord. Vyríc - Imperial Vampire Necromancer, Centurion. Sybìl - Breton Sorcerer, Centurion. Erìch - Nord Vampire Nightblade, Corporal. Njàll - Nord Templar, Lieutenant. Elánnà - Bosmer Warden, Veteran. Laquì - Redguard Vampire Nightblade, Corporal. Noveni Dres - Dunmer Sorcerer, Lieutenant. Marìnus - Imperial Warden, Veteran. Arvyn Indoril - Dunmer Templar, Sergeant. Rósalyn - Breton Sorcerer, Corporal. Emelîn - Bosmer Dragonknight, Corporal. Astaroth Indoril - Dunmer Sorcerer.0 -
Vetixio✭✭✭✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »I whispered this procblade 'nice proc sets' after they killed me then they were like 'nice health bar' then I said 'are you really tryna compare a health bar to free damage' then they didn't reply after that I think they realised they're a scrub who clutches on Selene's and Viper to win cause their skill damage was hella low
anyone who whispers someone in pvp and uses terminology like scrub is not any better then the users of proc sets imho.
I didn't call them a scrub in the whisper lol
not like calling them a scrub is any different on the forums. it still showcases what type of player you are.
did you even read the rest of the post and besides loads of people insult each and its hardly like scrub is a word or term I use a lotEdited by Vetixio on July 27, 2017 4:24PMPìerre - Breton Vampire Templar, Grand Overlord. Erádàn - Bosmer Templar, Warlord. Vyríc - Imperial Vampire Necromancer, Centurion. Sybìl - Breton Sorcerer, Centurion. Erìch - Nord Vampire Nightblade, Corporal. Njàll - Nord Templar, Lieutenant. Elánnà - Bosmer Warden, Veteran. Laquì - Redguard Vampire Nightblade, Corporal. Noveni Dres - Dunmer Sorcerer, Lieutenant. Marìnus - Imperial Warden, Veteran. Arvyn Indoril - Dunmer Templar, Sergeant. Rósalyn - Breton Sorcerer, Corporal. Emelîn - Bosmer Dragonknight, Corporal. Astaroth Indoril - Dunmer Sorcerer.0 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »What y'all think of the new sets?
Max mag and Max Stam 1 piece
8k moving DMG
200 wpn/spell DMG
I can't remember more
Domihaus (Monster)
(1) Max Stamina
(1) Max Magicka
(2) When you deal damage, you have a 15% chance to create either a ring of fire or a ring of molten earth around you for 10 seconds, which deals 1,000 Flame Damage or 1,000 Physical Damage every 1 second. Standing within the ring grants you 200 Spell Damage or 200 Weapon Damage. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.
From the wording of this it does not move, cause otherwise it would not have said "Standing within the ring grants you 200 Spell Damage or 200 Weapon Damage" cause you would always be standing in it if it moved with you. 1p is great for hybrids set ups thought but then again they are not all that effective, but it can also help magicka toons having more stamina to block or roll dodge in PvP. I don't see this set as a deal breaker in PvP. Unless obviously the area is really large, but I doubt it is even though its not mentioned.
speaking of which @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert Can we please get more info in skills and sets tooltip, so many sets lack their AoE distance or radius in the tooltip....1 -
GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »I whispered this procblade 'nice proc sets' after they killed me then they were like 'nice health bar' then I said 'are you really tryna compare a health bar to free damage' then they didn't reply after that I think they realised they're a scrub who clutches on Selene's and Viper to win cause their skill damage was hella low
anyone who whispers someone in pvp and uses terminology like scrub is not any better then the users of proc sets imho.
I didn't call them a scrub in the whisper lol
not like calling them a scrub is any different on the forums. it still showcases what type of player you are.PS4 NA DC2 -
Vetixio✭✭✭✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »I whispered this procblade 'nice proc sets' after they killed me then they were like 'nice health bar' then I said 'are you really tryna compare a health bar to free damage' then they didn't reply after that I think they realised they're a scrub who clutches on Selene's and Viper to win cause their skill damage was hella low
anyone who whispers someone in pvp and uses terminology like scrub is not any better then the users of proc sets imho.
I didn't call them a scrub in the whisper lol
not like calling them a scrub is any different on the forums. it still showcases what type of player you are.
Ok yes it was a stupid and immature thing to say I'm not like this usually I just get annoyed by proc sets especially as there has been so many this event week.Edited by Vetixio on July 27, 2017 4:54PMPìerre - Breton Vampire Templar, Grand Overlord. Erádàn - Bosmer Templar, Warlord. Vyríc - Imperial Vampire Necromancer, Centurion. Sybìl - Breton Sorcerer, Centurion. Erìch - Nord Vampire Nightblade, Corporal. Njàll - Nord Templar, Lieutenant. Elánnà - Bosmer Warden, Veteran. Laquì - Redguard Vampire Nightblade, Corporal. Noveni Dres - Dunmer Sorcerer, Lieutenant. Marìnus - Imperial Warden, Veteran. Arvyn Indoril - Dunmer Templar, Sergeant. Rósalyn - Breton Sorcerer, Corporal. Emelîn - Bosmer Dragonknight, Corporal. Astaroth Indoril - Dunmer Sorcerer.0 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »I whispered this procblade 'nice proc sets' after they killed me then they were like 'nice health bar' then I said 'are you really tryna compare a health bar to free damage' then they didn't reply after that I think they realised they're a scrub who clutches on Selene's and Viper to win cause their skill damage was hella low
anyone who whispers someone in pvp and uses terminology like scrub is not any better then the users of proc sets imho.
I didn't call them a scrub in the whisper lol
not like calling them a scrub is any different on the forums. it still showcases what type of player you are.
Ok yes it was a stupid and immature thing to say I'm not like this usually I just get annoyed by proc sets especially as there has been so many this event week.
Do you rage whisper everyone with a proc set or was this a special occasion, cause if it wasn't a special occasion then how do you even have time to actually play the game with all the proc sets in PvP?0 -
Vetixio✭✭✭✭paulsimonps wrote: »GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »I whispered this procblade 'nice proc sets' after they killed me then they were like 'nice health bar' then I said 'are you really tryna compare a health bar to free damage' then they didn't reply after that I think they realised they're a scrub who clutches on Selene's and Viper to win cause their skill damage was hella low
anyone who whispers someone in pvp and uses terminology like scrub is not any better then the users of proc sets imho.
I didn't call them a scrub in the whisper lol
not like calling them a scrub is any different on the forums. it still showcases what type of player you are.
Ok yes it was a stupid and immature thing to say I'm not like this usually I just get annoyed by proc sets especially as there has been so many this event week.
Do you rage whisper everyone with a proc set or was this a special occasion, cause if it wasn't a special occasion then how do you even have time to actually play the game with all the proc sets in PvP?
It was a special occasion cause they tbagged me. I overreacted tho tbhEdited by Vetixio on July 27, 2017 5:19PMPìerre - Breton Vampire Templar, Grand Overlord. Erádàn - Bosmer Templar, Warlord. Vyríc - Imperial Vampire Necromancer, Centurion. Sybìl - Breton Sorcerer, Centurion. Erìch - Nord Vampire Nightblade, Corporal. Njàll - Nord Templar, Lieutenant. Elánnà - Bosmer Warden, Veteran. Laquì - Redguard Vampire Nightblade, Corporal. Noveni Dres - Dunmer Sorcerer, Lieutenant. Marìnus - Imperial Warden, Veteran. Arvyn Indoril - Dunmer Templar, Sergeant. Rósalyn - Breton Sorcerer, Corporal. Emelîn - Bosmer Dragonknight, Corporal. Astaroth Indoril - Dunmer Sorcerer.0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭paulsimonps wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »What y'all think of the new sets?
Max mag and Max Stam 1 piece
8k moving DMG
200 wpn/spell DMG
I can't remember more
Domihaus (Monster)
(1) Max Stamina
(1) Max Magicka
(2) When you deal damage, you have a 15% chance to create either a ring of fire or a ring of molten earth around you for 10 seconds, which deals 1,000 Flame Damage or 1,000 Physical Damage every 1 second. Standing within the ring grants you 200 Spell Damage or 200 Weapon Damage. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.
From the wording of this it does not move, cause otherwise it would not have said "Standing within the ring grants you 200 Spell Damage or 200 Weapon Damage" cause you would always be standing in it if it moved with you. 1p is great for hybrids set ups thought but then again they are not all that effective, but it can also help magicka toons having more stamina to block or roll dodge in PvP. I don't see this set as a deal breaker in PvP. Unless obviously the area is really large, but I doubt it is even though its not mentioned.
speaking of which @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert Can we please get more info in skills and sets tooltip, so many sets lack their AoE distance or radius in the tooltip....
Yeah, the 2nd piece is useless in PVP, but the 1st is so strong. Ok, that may not the right word, but it is basically free 1k stamina for every mag toon that was using 1piece of max magicka monster set. That feels almost like Christmas when you have 11k stamina.1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There is a delay, they just need to remove the ability to animation cancel the bear. You should use dodge. That's how I avoid Selene's... Dodge is defaulted to double tapping a direction key, but you can bind it to its own key as well.
Yeah yeah its balanced, easy to avoid and in line with all the other sets. Thats why every single stam build except snb builds, is using selene. Because its balanced.1 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There is a delay, they just need to remove the ability to animation cancel the bear. You should use dodge. That's how I avoid Selene's... Dodge is defaulted to double tapping a direction key, but you can bind it to its own key as well.
Yeah yeah its balanced, easy to avoid and in line with all the other sets. Thats why every single stam build except snb builds, is using selene. Because its balanced.
Too be fair, just cause something is Bis doesn't mean its OP. There will always be BiS, no matter if things are "balanced" if everything was "perfectly balanced" then nothing would matter and you could wear and do anything and it would all be equally as valid, and equally as boring. Your logic is flawed saying that just cause everyone uses it its not balanced. All healers run resto staff, BROKEN OP NEEDS NERF! Its the same logic.2 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭paulsimonps wrote: »There is a delay, they just need to remove the ability to animation cancel the bear. You should use dodge. That's how I avoid Selene's... Dodge is defaulted to double tapping a direction key, but you can bind it to its own key as well.
Yeah yeah its balanced, easy to avoid and in line with all the other sets. Thats why every single stam build except snb builds, is using selene. Because its balanced.
Too be fair, just cause something is Bis doesn't mean its OP. There will always be BiS, no matter if things are "balanced" if everything was "perfectly balanced" then nothing would matter and you could wear and do anything and it would all be equally as valid, and equally as boring. Your logic is flawed saying that just cause everyone uses it its not balanced. All healers run resto staff, BROKEN OP NEEDS NERF! Its the same logic.
There is a huge difference between BiS and completely overpowered and thats why i avoided to say BiS cause i knew this response would come. If you wanted to create an analogy the that would be BSW. Remember BSW pre nerf? It was "BiS". That doesnt mean it was balanced because there is always going to be a BiS set for specific builds. It was OP because it was BiS for all classes even tho the set screams mDK.
Same with selene. I totally understand certain sets being BiS for specific builds. But we are talking about a set that hands down beats everything else on every single build except snb builds because those builds use another broken set and if that set didnt exist then snb builds would be running selene too. And the issue with that set isnt just the fact that its broken OP. See, if it was OP but it required skill to gain its usefulness it wouldnt be such a problem. There are a lot of OP sets like bloodspawn for example. But when they require some sort of skill they are not a huge problem cause it doesnt remove skill from the game and bad players cant crutch on them that much.
Selene on the other hand and procs with no counterplay in general require absolutely no skill. They eliminate skill from the game and then its all just numbers and everyone is zerging. And then they are telling the players "guys please split up so you wont lag". And on top of that, the fact that procs dont scale with ur stats also creates the stupid heavy tank meta. And its also impossible to achieve class balance cause you just dont know how each class actually performs when sets are dictating the outcome of fights.
Edited by pieratsos on July 27, 2017 7:06PM2 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »I think that part of the issue here is magicka mains are arguing that they can't dodge these procs. Dodging is simply trading stamina for health... so magicka builds can shield the proc, trading magicka for health and thus accomplishing the same thing.
roll dodge isnt 100% value considering all the undodgeable stuff. your guarenteed 100% shield value unless not attacked.
Exactly. Stam has dodging, magicka has shielding, shielding is better.
No.
mDKs use HA and most of them don't run ShieldsSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
There was a time when people had to choose between ransack and heroic. snare and more dmg vs cheaper and less dmg. Since tremor was introduced the choice is a no brainer. You get more dmg and a better snare than heroic (as if heroic snare wasnt broken already). Tremor needs its snare completely removed for starters and then maybe its proc chance may have to be addressed or give it a delay to create more counterplay. Its burst may not be like selene's but combined with la ransack bash its still a lot of burst from a tank that takes very little dmg. The whole point of tanks is to outlast people in long fights not bursting them down.Tremor is ridiculous... if you go full heavy armor and a sword and shield you should be a tank and not be able to do decent burst damage 50% of the time you use ransack.
There is people who shieldcharge in and spam ransack.. it actually works since okayish damage and that obnoxious snare comes with it.
Tremors isn't burst damage, you're talking about a proc that's going to hit for 2.5k to 3k damage.
It was only powerful when you combined it with multiple proc sets like viper or red mountain. Both of those took a hit this patch.
Tremors eating a damage nerf is just going to result in stormfist or sellatrix being used with heroic slash.
It depends on if you actually run Tremors though, Heroic has minor maim attached to it, a pretty good snare, does more damage, and gives Ult.
Tremors eats a nerf you can guess which one is going to be used more, its going to be Heroic.
But it costs a lot more and spamming it isnt so easy. Thats the point. It should be a choice between the one or the other with both of them having pros and cons. Like it used to be before tremor. Right now there is just literally no point in running heroic. No one is using it anymore. Tremor cant stay like this. Its design is just absolutely horrible.
Only Stam Sorcs right now run it
Stamina Templars will not run it, and Stamina Nightblades will not run it (Surprise + Selenes better)
Stamina Dk's are going to run Heroic and Bloodspawn over Puncture and Tremors as Heroics/Bloodspawn is going to drastically increase not only your survivability but increase your resource gain.
Heroic slash is a very rare sight these days. Almost every single stam snb build no matter what class it is runs tremor. The only reason to drop tremor is for bloodspawn on a DK cause it synergizes very good and its another OP set. And even then people still go with tremor. There is just no reason to go with heroic. Its not easy to sustain it and it just doesnt offer enough compared to ransack tremor. And tremor itself has a horrible design. No counterplay, guaranteed big dmg by using prob the cheapest spammable in the game, strongest snare in the game with prety much 100% uptime and allows u to be very tanky as well. It needs a complete rework.
Ummm
Again I went over the classes that use it
DK is going to use Heroic and Bloodspawn
Stamina Templars will not use Tremors, even as 1hd/shield, They use Piercing Jabs and generally do Selenes or another set.
Stamina NBs won't use Tremors either, Selenes+Surprise attack, even if they're 1hd/shield (which they rarely are)
only Stamina Sorcs (And Wardens if they got sword/shield, forgot about them) would use Tremors because they don't have a viable melee attack like Templars/NB and don't synergize with Bloodspawn/heroic like DK's do
Heroic again is the best attack for a DK if you're 1hd/shield.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
There was a time when people had to choose between ransack and heroic. snare and more dmg vs cheaper and less dmg. Since tremor was introduced the choice is a no brainer. You get more dmg and a better snare than heroic (as if heroic snare wasnt broken already). Tremor needs its snare completely removed for starters and then maybe its proc chance may have to be addressed or give it a delay to create more counterplay. Its burst may not be like selene's but combined with la ransack bash its still a lot of burst from a tank that takes very little dmg. The whole point of tanks is to outlast people in long fights not bursting them down.Tremor is ridiculous... if you go full heavy armor and a sword and shield you should be a tank and not be able to do decent burst damage 50% of the time you use ransack.
There is people who shieldcharge in and spam ransack.. it actually works since okayish damage and that obnoxious snare comes with it.
Tremors isn't burst damage, you're talking about a proc that's going to hit for 2.5k to 3k damage.
It was only powerful when you combined it with multiple proc sets like viper or red mountain. Both of those took a hit this patch.
Tremors eating a damage nerf is just going to result in stormfist or sellatrix being used with heroic slash.
It depends on if you actually run Tremors though, Heroic has minor maim attached to it, a pretty good snare, does more damage, and gives Ult.
Tremors eats a nerf you can guess which one is going to be used more, its going to be Heroic.
But it costs a lot more and spamming it isnt so easy. Thats the point. It should be a choice between the one or the other with both of them having pros and cons. Like it used to be before tremor. Right now there is just literally no point in running heroic. No one is using it anymore. Tremor cant stay like this. Its design is just absolutely horrible.
Only Stam Sorcs right now run it
Stamina Templars will not run it, and Stamina Nightblades will not run it (Surprise + Selenes better)
Stamina Dk's are going to run Heroic and Bloodspawn over Puncture and Tremors as Heroics/Bloodspawn is going to drastically increase not only your survivability but increase your resource gain.
Heroic slash is a very rare sight these days. Almost every single stam snb build no matter what class it is runs tremor. The only reason to drop tremor is for bloodspawn on a DK cause it synergizes very good and its another OP set. And even then people still go with tremor. There is just no reason to go with heroic. Its not easy to sustain it and it just doesnt offer enough compared to ransack tremor. And tremor itself has a horrible design. No counterplay, guaranteed big dmg by using prob the cheapest spammable in the game, strongest snare in the game with prety much 100% uptime and allows u to be very tanky as well. It needs a complete rework.
Ummm
Again I went over the classes that use it
DK is going to use Heroic and Bloodspawn
Stamina Templars will not use Tremors, even as 1hd/shield, They use Piercing Jabs and generally do Selenes or another set.
Stamina NBs won't use Tremors either, Selenes+Surprise attack, even if they're 1hd/shield (which they rarely are)
only Stamina Sorcs (And Wardens if they got sword/shield, forgot about them) would use Tremors because they don't have a viable melee attack like Templars/NB and don't synergize with Bloodspawn/heroic like DK's do
Heroic again is the best attack for a DK if you're 1hd/shield.
That doesnt make tremor balanced. Unavoidable dmg, strongest snare in the game, utilized with the cheapest spammable in the game, doesnt scale with stats which means you are playing a tank while maintaining ur dmg.
There was a time when snb builds actually required skill with la ransack/heroic bash to be effective. Now every potato can put on tremor and just spam one button to keep u prety much locked down and do a lot of dmg.Edited by pieratsos on July 27, 2017 9:41PM2 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭paulsimonps wrote: »There is a delay, they just need to remove the ability to animation cancel the bear. You should use dodge. That's how I avoid Selene's... Dodge is defaulted to double tapping a direction key, but you can bind it to its own key as well.
Yeah yeah its balanced, easy to avoid and in line with all the other sets. Thats why every single stam build except snb builds, is using selene. Because its balanced.
Too be fair, just cause something is Bis doesn't mean its OP. There will always be BiS, no matter if things are "balanced" if everything was "perfectly balanced" then nothing would matter and you could wear and do anything and it would all be equally as valid, and equally as boring. Your logic is flawed saying that just cause everyone uses it its not balanced. All healers run resto staff, BROKEN OP NEEDS NERF! Its the same logic.
There is a huge difference between BiS and completely overpowered and thats why i avoided to say BiS cause i knew this response would come. If you wanted to create an analogy the that would be BSW. Remember BSW pre nerf? It was "BiS". That doesnt mean it was balanced because there is always going to be a BiS set for specific builds. It was OP because it was BiS for all classes even tho the set screams mDK.
Same with selene. I totally understand certain sets being BiS for specific builds. But we are talking about a set that hands down beats everything else on every single build except snb builds because those builds use another broken set and if that set didnt exist then snb builds would be running selene too. And the issue with that set isnt just the fact that its broken OP. See, if it was OP but it required skill to gain its usefulness it wouldnt be such a problem. There are a lot of OP sets like bloodspawn for example. But when they require some sort of skill they are not a huge problem cause it doesnt remove skill from the game and bad players cant crutch on them that much.
Selene on the other hand and procs with no counterplay in general require absolutely no skill. They eliminate skill from the game and then its all just numbers and everyone is zerging. And then they are telling the players "guys please split up so you wont lag". And on top of that, the fact that procs dont scale with ur stats also creates the stupid heavy tank meta. And its also impossible to achieve class balance cause you just dont know how each class actually performs when sets are dictating the outcome of fights.
Yes but that is different from what you were saying first. BiS=/=Broken. Which is what your other post basically said it was.0 -
revonine✭✭✭✭https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/362692/upcoming-pts-balance-changes/p1
Selene and Tremor are receiving a proc delay.0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So @BohnT called it
I'm eager to see how this plays out. Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
There was a time when people had to choose between ransack and heroic. snare and more dmg vs cheaper and less dmg. Since tremor was introduced the choice is a no brainer. You get more dmg and a better snare than heroic (as if heroic snare wasnt broken already). Tremor needs its snare completely removed for starters and then maybe its proc chance may have to be addressed or give it a delay to create more counterplay. Its burst may not be like selene's but combined with la ransack bash its still a lot of burst from a tank that takes very little dmg. The whole point of tanks is to outlast people in long fights not bursting them down.Tremor is ridiculous... if you go full heavy armor and a sword and shield you should be a tank and not be able to do decent burst damage 50% of the time you use ransack.
There is people who shieldcharge in and spam ransack.. it actually works since okayish damage and that obnoxious snare comes with it.
Tremors isn't burst damage, you're talking about a proc that's going to hit for 2.5k to 3k damage.
It was only powerful when you combined it with multiple proc sets like viper or red mountain. Both of those took a hit this patch.
Tremors eating a damage nerf is just going to result in stormfist or sellatrix being used with heroic slash.
It depends on if you actually run Tremors though, Heroic has minor maim attached to it, a pretty good snare, does more damage, and gives Ult.
Tremors eats a nerf you can guess which one is going to be used more, its going to be Heroic.
But it costs a lot more and spamming it isnt so easy. Thats the point. It should be a choice between the one or the other with both of them having pros and cons. Like it used to be before tremor. Right now there is just literally no point in running heroic. No one is using it anymore. Tremor cant stay like this. Its design is just absolutely horrible.
Only Stam Sorcs right now run it
Stamina Templars will not run it, and Stamina Nightblades will not run it (Surprise + Selenes better)
Stamina Dk's are going to run Heroic and Bloodspawn over Puncture and Tremors as Heroics/Bloodspawn is going to drastically increase not only your survivability but increase your resource gain.
Heroic slash is a very rare sight these days. Almost every single stam snb build no matter what class it is runs tremor. The only reason to drop tremor is for bloodspawn on a DK cause it synergizes very good and its another OP set. And even then people still go with tremor. There is just no reason to go with heroic. Its not easy to sustain it and it just doesnt offer enough compared to ransack tremor. And tremor itself has a horrible design. No counterplay, guaranteed big dmg by using prob the cheapest spammable in the game, strongest snare in the game with prety much 100% uptime and allows u to be very tanky as well. It needs a complete rework.
Ummm
Again I went over the classes that use it
DK is going to use Heroic and Bloodspawn
Stamina Templars will not use Tremors, even as 1hd/shield, They use Piercing Jabs and generally do Selenes or another set.
Stamina NBs won't use Tremors either, Selenes+Surprise attack, even if they're 1hd/shield (which they rarely are)
only Stamina Sorcs (And Wardens if they got sword/shield, forgot about them) would use Tremors because they don't have a viable melee attack like Templars/NB and don't synergize with Bloodspawn/heroic like DK's do
Heroic again is the best attack for a DK if you're 1hd/shield.
That doesnt make tremor balanced. Unavoidable dmg, strongest snare in the game, utilized with the cheapest spammable in the game, doesnt scale with stats which means you are playing a tank while maintaining ur dmg.
There was a time when snb builds actually required skill with la ransack/heroic bash to be effective. Now every potato can put on tremor and just spam one button to keep u prety much locked down and do a lot of dmg.
Stamina Sorcs won't run Tank Mode with the setup if they're smart, they'll be in Medium Armor.
You also still do Ransack/La/Bash with Puncture and Tremor Scale.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
actosh✭✭✭✭✭U know that selene would also work and a snb build?
Funny they gave selene just a delay increase. That means dmg stays the same (good for pve) and ppl still get rekt even if selene has a 5sec attack delay ^^Edited by actosh on July 28, 2017 2:20AM0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭U know that selene would also work and a snb build?
Funny they gave selene just a delay increase. That means dmg stays the same (good for pve) and ppl still get rekt even if selene has a 5sec attack delay ^^
Yeap, I've got mine on my nightblades, debating swapping it over to my stamina sorc, also thinking of trying stormfist on him. I really liked it on my stamina Templar.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What is wrong with selene? You can block it, you can shield it, you can dodge it and it has a visual and an audible warning before the damage is applied.
And even the damage. I have crystal frags with much more damage on my sorc than Selene on my NB...
The problem with any proc set like that is the level of damage. If you get hit with a skill like frags, it's because someone spec'd into that to do good damage. But when procs go off, they do a set amount, so even if you are a potato build, it will still hit hard. Frankly, it should scale down from what is listed (should be max damage) so if you have no damage build, then it drops considerably.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC0 -
actosh✭✭✭✭✭U know that selene would also work and a snb build?
Funny they gave selene just a delay increase. That means dmg stays the same (good for pve) and ppl still get rekt even if selene has a 5sec attack delay ^^
Yeap, I've got mine on my nightblades, debating swapping it over to my stamina sorc, also thinking of trying stormfist on him. I really liked it on my stamina Templar.
Stormfist is as well on my "to test" list ^^0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
There was a time when people had to choose between ransack and heroic. snare and more dmg vs cheaper and less dmg. Since tremor was introduced the choice is a no brainer. You get more dmg and a better snare than heroic (as if heroic snare wasnt broken already). Tremor needs its snare completely removed for starters and then maybe its proc chance may have to be addressed or give it a delay to create more counterplay. Its burst may not be like selene's but combined with la ransack bash its still a lot of burst from a tank that takes very little dmg. The whole point of tanks is to outlast people in long fights not bursting them down.Tremor is ridiculous... if you go full heavy armor and a sword and shield you should be a tank and not be able to do decent burst damage 50% of the time you use ransack.
There is people who shieldcharge in and spam ransack.. it actually works since okayish damage and that obnoxious snare comes with it.
Tremors isn't burst damage, you're talking about a proc that's going to hit for 2.5k to 3k damage.
It was only powerful when you combined it with multiple proc sets like viper or red mountain. Both of those took a hit this patch.
Tremors eating a damage nerf is just going to result in stormfist or sellatrix being used with heroic slash.
It depends on if you actually run Tremors though, Heroic has minor maim attached to it, a pretty good snare, does more damage, and gives Ult.
Tremors eats a nerf you can guess which one is going to be used more, its going to be Heroic.
But it costs a lot more and spamming it isnt so easy. Thats the point. It should be a choice between the one or the other with both of them having pros and cons. Like it used to be before tremor. Right now there is just literally no point in running heroic. No one is using it anymore. Tremor cant stay like this. Its design is just absolutely horrible.
Only Stam Sorcs right now run it
Stamina Templars will not run it, and Stamina Nightblades will not run it (Surprise + Selenes better)
Stamina Dk's are going to run Heroic and Bloodspawn over Puncture and Tremors as Heroics/Bloodspawn is going to drastically increase not only your survivability but increase your resource gain.
Heroic slash is a very rare sight these days. Almost every single stam snb build no matter what class it is runs tremor. The only reason to drop tremor is for bloodspawn on a DK cause it synergizes very good and its another OP set. And even then people still go with tremor. There is just no reason to go with heroic. Its not easy to sustain it and it just doesnt offer enough compared to ransack tremor. And tremor itself has a horrible design. No counterplay, guaranteed big dmg by using prob the cheapest spammable in the game, strongest snare in the game with prety much 100% uptime and allows u to be very tanky as well. It needs a complete rework.
Ummm
Again I went over the classes that use it
DK is going to use Heroic and Bloodspawn
Stamina Templars will not use Tremors, even as 1hd/shield, They use Piercing Jabs and generally do Selenes or another set.
Stamina NBs won't use Tremors either, Selenes+Surprise attack, even if they're 1hd/shield (which they rarely are)
only Stamina Sorcs (And Wardens if they got sword/shield, forgot about them) would use Tremors because they don't have a viable melee attack like Templars/NB and don't synergize with Bloodspawn/heroic like DK's do
Heroic again is the best attack for a DK if you're 1hd/shield.
That doesnt make tremor balanced. Unavoidable dmg, strongest snare in the game, utilized with the cheapest spammable in the game, doesnt scale with stats which means you are playing a tank while maintaining ur dmg.
There was a time when snb builds actually required skill with la ransack/heroic bash to be effective. Now every potato can put on tremor and just spam one button to keep u prety much locked down and do a lot of dmg.
Stamina Sorcs won't run Tank Mode with the setup if they're smart, they'll be in Medium Armor.
You also still do Ransack/La/Bash with Puncture and Tremor Scale.
I know you do ransack la bash with tremor. Which is a lot cheaper than heroic. And with that combo you literally have a lot of burst. Unlike heroic. And you dont even need crazy stats to do that burst. Tanks are suppose to outlast people in fights. Not bursting them down.
0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭paulsimonps wrote: »There is a delay, they just need to remove the ability to animation cancel the bear. You should use dodge. That's how I avoid Selene's... Dodge is defaulted to double tapping a direction key, but you can bind it to its own key as well.
Yeah yeah its balanced, easy to avoid and in line with all the other sets. Thats why every single stam build except snb builds, is using selene. Because its balanced.
Too be fair, just cause something is Bis doesn't mean its OP. There will always be BiS, no matter if things are "balanced" if everything was "perfectly balanced" then nothing would matter and you could wear and do anything and it would all be equally as valid, and equally as boring. Your logic is flawed saying that just cause everyone uses it its not balanced. All healers run resto staff, BROKEN OP NEEDS NERF! Its the same logic.
There is a huge difference between BiS and completely overpowered and thats why i avoided to say BiS cause i knew this response would come. If you wanted to create an analogy the that would be BSW. Remember BSW pre nerf? It was "BiS". That doesnt mean it was balanced because there is always going to be a BiS set for specific builds. It was OP because it was BiS for all classes even tho the set screams mDK.
Same with selene. I totally understand certain sets being BiS for specific builds. But we are talking about a set that hands down beats everything else on every single build except snb builds because those builds use another broken set and if that set didnt exist then snb builds would be running selene too. And the issue with that set isnt just the fact that its broken OP. See, if it was OP but it required skill to gain its usefulness it wouldnt be such a problem. There are a lot of OP sets like bloodspawn for example. But when they require some sort of skill they are not a huge problem cause it doesnt remove skill from the game and bad players cant crutch on them that much.
Selene on the other hand and procs with no counterplay in general require absolutely no skill. They eliminate skill from the game and then its all just numbers and everyone is zerging. And then they are telling the players "guys please split up so you wont lag". And on top of that, the fact that procs dont scale with ur stats also creates the stupid heavy tank meta. And its also impossible to achieve class balance cause you just dont know how each class actually performs when sets are dictating the outcome of fights.
Pre BSW was 3-4% more damage increase (more on magicka DK of-course) than Julianos on some setups (less on magicka Templar). Please elaborate how a 3-4% increase is un-balanced in an PvE environment.0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭paulsimonps wrote: »There is a delay, they just need to remove the ability to animation cancel the bear. You should use dodge. That's how I avoid Selene's... Dodge is defaulted to double tapping a direction key, but you can bind it to its own key as well.
Yeah yeah its balanced, easy to avoid and in line with all the other sets. Thats why every single stam build except snb builds, is using selene. Because its balanced.
Too be fair, just cause something is Bis doesn't mean its OP. There will always be BiS, no matter if things are "balanced" if everything was "perfectly balanced" then nothing would matter and you could wear and do anything and it would all be equally as valid, and equally as boring. Your logic is flawed saying that just cause everyone uses it its not balanced. All healers run resto staff, BROKEN OP NEEDS NERF! Its the same logic.
There is a huge difference between BiS and completely overpowered and thats why i avoided to say BiS cause i knew this response would come. If you wanted to create an analogy the that would be BSW. Remember BSW pre nerf? It was "BiS". That doesnt mean it was balanced because there is always going to be a BiS set for specific builds. It was OP because it was BiS for all classes even tho the set screams mDK.
Same with selene. I totally understand certain sets being BiS for specific builds. But we are talking about a set that hands down beats everything else on every single build except snb builds because those builds use another broken set and if that set didnt exist then snb builds would be running selene too. And the issue with that set isnt just the fact that its broken OP. See, if it was OP but it required skill to gain its usefulness it wouldnt be such a problem. There are a lot of OP sets like bloodspawn for example. But when they require some sort of skill they are not a huge problem cause it doesnt remove skill from the game and bad players cant crutch on them that much.
Selene on the other hand and procs with no counterplay in general require absolutely no skill. They eliminate skill from the game and then its all just numbers and everyone is zerging. And then they are telling the players "guys please split up so you wont lag". And on top of that, the fact that procs dont scale with ur stats also creates the stupid heavy tank meta. And its also impossible to achieve class balance cause you just dont know how each class actually performs when sets are dictating the outcome of fights.
Pre BSW was 3-4% more damage increase (more on magicka DK of-course) than Julianos on some setups (less on magicka Templar). Please elaborate how a 3-4% increase is un-balanced in an PvE environment.
Since it was outperforming prety much everything on every single class. Every class could achieve the maximum uptime even tho the set screams mDK and it was designed for them. It got nerfed for a reason.1 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭paulsimonps wrote: »There is a delay, they just need to remove the ability to animation cancel the bear. You should use dodge. That's how I avoid Selene's... Dodge is defaulted to double tapping a direction key, but you can bind it to its own key as well.
Yeah yeah its balanced, easy to avoid and in line with all the other sets. Thats why every single stam build except snb builds, is using selene. Because its balanced.
Too be fair, just cause something is Bis doesn't mean its OP. There will always be BiS, no matter if things are "balanced" if everything was "perfectly balanced" then nothing would matter and you could wear and do anything and it would all be equally as valid, and equally as boring. Your logic is flawed saying that just cause everyone uses it its not balanced. All healers run resto staff, BROKEN OP NEEDS NERF! Its the same logic.
There is a huge difference between BiS and completely overpowered and thats why i avoided to say BiS cause i knew this response would come. If you wanted to create an analogy the that would be BSW. Remember BSW pre nerf? It was "BiS". That doesnt mean it was balanced because there is always going to be a BiS set for specific builds. It was OP because it was BiS for all classes even tho the set screams mDK.
Same with selene. I totally understand certain sets being BiS for specific builds. But we are talking about a set that hands down beats everything else on every single build except snb builds because those builds use another broken set and if that set didnt exist then snb builds would be running selene too. And the issue with that set isnt just the fact that its broken OP. See, if it was OP but it required skill to gain its usefulness it wouldnt be such a problem. There are a lot of OP sets like bloodspawn for example. But when they require some sort of skill they are not a huge problem cause it doesnt remove skill from the game and bad players cant crutch on them that much.
Selene on the other hand and procs with no counterplay in general require absolutely no skill. They eliminate skill from the game and then its all just numbers and everyone is zerging. And then they are telling the players "guys please split up so you wont lag". And on top of that, the fact that procs dont scale with ur stats also creates the stupid heavy tank meta. And its also impossible to achieve class balance cause you just dont know how each class actually performs when sets are dictating the outcome of fights.
Pre BSW was 3-4% more damage increase (more on magicka DK of-course) than Julianos on some setups (less on magicka Templar). Please elaborate how a 3-4% increase is un-balanced in an PvE environment.
Since it was outperforming prety much everything on every single class. Every class could achieve the maximum uptime even tho the set screams mDK and it was designed for them. It got nerfed for a reason.
I still fail to see how a 3-4% dps increase compared to Julianos is a reason to nerf it (A friend of mine compared these 2 on magsorc, magplar, magblade and magDK and got that BSW increased his average dps by rougly 3-4%). And when it comes to pre-BSW: Not all classes could have maximum uptime on that, magDK got the highest (for obvious reasons), then sorcs/NB and last magicka Templar (because you lose a lot of uptime when you start using beam). I still think the nerfs to BSW was un-justified, happy to see that it will get a buff now when ZOS buffs the 1-4th pieces stats.
0 -
Weps✭✭✭✭paulsimonps wrote: »Too be fair, just cause something is Bis doesn't mean its OP. There will always be BiS, no matter if things are "balanced" if everything was "perfectly balanced" then nothing would matter and you could wear and do anything and it would all be equally as valid, and equally as boring. Your logic is flawed saying that just cause everyone uses it its not balanced. All healers run resto staff, BROKEN OP NEEDS NERF! Its the same logic.
Same with selene. I totally understand certain sets being BiS for specific builds. But we are talking about a set that hands down beats everything else on every single build except snb builds because those builds use another broken set and if that set didnt exist then snb builds would be running selene too. And the issue with that set isnt just the fact that its broken OP. See, if it was OP but it required skill to gain its usefulness it wouldnt be such a problem. There are a lot of OP sets like bloodspawn for example. But when they require some sort of skill they are not a huge problem cause it doesnt remove skill from the game and bad players cant crutch on them that much.
I admit, I intended to use Tremorscale on my stamsorc for Morrowind...but then I tried Selene. Damn, Selene.
Tremorscale doesn't even come close imho, at the moment Selene procs on everything. Every 4 bashes and it's out.
To me the biggest issues with Selene is not the "undodgeable", "untelegraphed" strong damage.
Is the fact that the thing basically procs on cooldown and it feels like the proc percentage is totally ignored.
I can outlive a burst proc, even in full medium, but not like 3 in 12 seconds.
PS4 EU - CP 1000+ - EP Loyal
My EU PreciousesAemon Dk | Imperial Dragonknight Tank
Guari Gaburiefu | PvP Stamplar - Soon PvE tank
Nadija Zenobia | 45k+ PvE Dk - PvP Leaper
Naga del Serpente | High Elf Magicka Sorc PVE DPS - Soon tb 2nd crafter
Azor Ahai V | Dunmer Magicka DK for PVP and Pve
Jabba D'Cat | Khajiit Stamplar
Gennarino Auditore | 7k Weapon damage Bosmer Stamblade / Ganking experimental build
Rina Inbasu | Dunmer Magblade, my bomblade
Zelgadis Greywords | High Elf Magplar
Nachael Jordan | Redguard Stamsorc DPS
Orghuz Diul | StamWar DPS
This-Will-Buff-If | Argonian Warden Trial Off tank
Amelia Tesla Sallilune | Breton Magden PvP DD / PvE healer
Sap-My-Shield | PvP Nooblade, now dead PvE Tank0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭paulsimonps wrote: »There is a delay, they just need to remove the ability to animation cancel the bear. You should use dodge. That's how I avoid Selene's... Dodge is defaulted to double tapping a direction key, but you can bind it to its own key as well.
Yeah yeah its balanced, easy to avoid and in line with all the other sets. Thats why every single stam build except snb builds, is using selene. Because its balanced.
Too be fair, just cause something is Bis doesn't mean its OP. There will always be BiS, no matter if things are "balanced" if everything was "perfectly balanced" then nothing would matter and you could wear and do anything and it would all be equally as valid, and equally as boring. Your logic is flawed saying that just cause everyone uses it its not balanced. All healers run resto staff, BROKEN OP NEEDS NERF! Its the same logic.
There is a huge difference between BiS and completely overpowered and thats why i avoided to say BiS cause i knew this response would come. If you wanted to create an analogy the that would be BSW. Remember BSW pre nerf? It was "BiS". That doesnt mean it was balanced because there is always going to be a BiS set for specific builds. It was OP because it was BiS for all classes even tho the set screams mDK.
Same with selene. I totally understand certain sets being BiS for specific builds. But we are talking about a set that hands down beats everything else on every single build except snb builds because those builds use another broken set and if that set didnt exist then snb builds would be running selene too. And the issue with that set isnt just the fact that its broken OP. See, if it was OP but it required skill to gain its usefulness it wouldnt be such a problem. There are a lot of OP sets like bloodspawn for example. But when they require some sort of skill they are not a huge problem cause it doesnt remove skill from the game and bad players cant crutch on them that much.
Selene on the other hand and procs with no counterplay in general require absolutely no skill. They eliminate skill from the game and then its all just numbers and everyone is zerging. And then they are telling the players "guys please split up so you wont lag". And on top of that, the fact that procs dont scale with ur stats also creates the stupid heavy tank meta. And its also impossible to achieve class balance cause you just dont know how each class actually performs when sets are dictating the outcome of fights.
Pre BSW was 3-4% more damage increase (more on magicka DK of-course) than Julianos on some setups (less on magicka Templar). Please elaborate how a 3-4% increase is un-balanced in an PvE environment.
Since it was outperforming prety much everything on every single class. Every class could achieve the maximum uptime even tho the set screams mDK and it was designed for them. It got nerfed for a reason.
I still fail to see how a 3-4% dps increase compared to Julianos is a reason to nerf it (A friend of mine compared these 2 on magsorc, magplar, magblade and magDK and got that BSW increased his average dps by rougly 3-4%). And when it comes to pre-BSW: Not all classes could have maximum uptime on that, magDK got the highest (for obvious reasons), then sorcs/NB and last magicka Templar (because you lose a lot of uptime when you start using beam). I still think the nerfs to BSW was un-justified, happy to see that it will get a buff now when ZOS buffs the 1-4th pieces stats.
It was BiS on every single class even tho the set was designed specifically for mDK. And 3-4% dmg is actually a lot when u want to squeeze every ounce of dmg from ur build and when that 3-4% comes from a set that wasnt even intented to be used on that class then its obvious that something is off. 3-4% to you or me may not look unbalanced or OP or anything but it was eliminating build diversity in PVE cause there was simply no reason to run anything else apart from maybe scathing on a magblade that was proccing with twisting path.1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭paulsimonps wrote: »Too be fair, just cause something is Bis doesn't mean its OP. There will always be BiS, no matter if things are "balanced" if everything was "perfectly balanced" then nothing would matter and you could wear and do anything and it would all be equally as valid, and equally as boring. Your logic is flawed saying that just cause everyone uses it its not balanced. All healers run resto staff, BROKEN OP NEEDS NERF! Its the same logic.
Same with selene. I totally understand certain sets being BiS for specific builds. But we are talking about a set that hands down beats everything else on every single build except snb builds because those builds use another broken set and if that set didnt exist then snb builds would be running selene too. And the issue with that set isnt just the fact that its broken OP. See, if it was OP but it required skill to gain its usefulness it wouldnt be such a problem. There are a lot of OP sets like bloodspawn for example. But when they require some sort of skill they are not a huge problem cause it doesnt remove skill from the game and bad players cant crutch on them that much.
I admit, I intended to use Tremorscale on my stamsorc for Morrowind...but then I tried Selene. Damn, Selene.
Tremorscale doesn't even come close imho, at the moment Selene procs on everything. Every 4 bashes and it's out.
To me the biggest issues with Selene is not the "undodgeable", "untelegraphed" strong damage.
Is the fact that the thing basically procs on cooldown and it feels like the proc percentage is totally ignored.
I can outlive a burst proc, even in full medium, but not like 3 in 12 seconds.
Well both are broken which was my point. If you dont run the one, you run the other.2
