hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Here is a completed hybrid build wih a roughly equal damage distribution between physical and magical damage. The build works by stacking max magicka and max weapon damage.

This is a PvP build for he most part, but I have completed most of the Morrowind world bosses solo with this build. I think it would have potential in VMSA if I switched skills to a more damage over time spec. Otherwise it's sustain and survivability would be more then fine for VMSA.

Here's a build link wih gameplay if you guys are interested: https://youtu.be/tp-09x2A1-U

I also have a very detailed hybrid build gear guide, showing multiple different hybrid build gear setups for different types of hybrid specs.
https://youtu.be/qF3LaYfNTaU

One of the key talking points concerning hybrid viability is allowing players to disperse attributes as they so desire, with the only penalty (ideally) being frequency of skill usage due to the size of the attribute pools. Though I'm not discrediting the builds in these videos as hybrids, I do recognize that your hybrid potential is being limited because you are forced to put most of your attribute points into one particular stat.

I would love to see ZOS recognize that a 22/21/21 divide really isn't viable for all content as a non-tank, and make adjustments accordingly.

Your definition of hybrid in ESO is just wrong. So you are saying Jack's builds aren't hybrid builds? Simple question, are Jack's builds hybrid builds? Yes/No? Just Yes or No. If you try to talk gibberish and avoid to give a Yes/No answer, I will take it as a Yes.

Like pure builds, hybrid builds also need to be optimized. There are bad pure builds, and there are bad hybrid builds, your hybrid build is a bad build overall, no on in the right mind would split points into a 22/21/21 especially when building a hybrid.

That's the point (see bold). One of my main arguments is that a 22/21/21 divide shouldn't impact power of skills, only provide a near equal divide of resource availability.

So you decided to talk gibberish instead of answering the question. As I have said earlier, it means you agree with me that Jack's builds are hybrid builds, so your definition of hybrid is wrong, which means your argument is invalid.

The 22/21/21 divide is as hybrid as it gets, and you're saying that definition of a hybrid is wrong? The way you are phrasing your argument doesn't work. You're demanding a yes or no answer for a question that doesn't have a yes or no answer. Think of hybrids on a spectrum - it's not a yes or no scenario. While certain builds have hybrid-like features, I find it hard to call a build that places 64 attribute points into a single attribute a "true" hybrid.

And you're missing the main point. The attribute scaling system makes your build significantly weaker than other builds if you want to, say... put a 22/21/21 divide into your attribute points. Why should a build that gets as hybrid-like as possible be punished?

Edit: Typo

It's your opinion that "22/21/21 divide is as hybrid as it gets", and yes your definition of a hybrid is completely wrong. It can't even be more wrong. Attribute isn't the only thing that increases your stat, gear is also a major factor. Jewelry's traits (arcane/robust) and bonuses from gear sets make up a huge deal of your stats, so it doesn't matter if you put 1 points, 2 points, 64 points or 298 points into magicka, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. Example, you can put all points into magicka and use robust jewelry to get both of your resource pools to a good level. Btw no DD puts points into health, it's stupid.

It is a simple yes and no answer. "Are Jack's builds (shown in his videos) hybrid builds?" Simple as that. It's like showing a basket of fruit and asking you "Are these apples?".

Don't you understand that you're ruining your own argument when you say, "Btw no DD puts points into health, it's stupid."

THAT'S THE WHOLE PROBLEM! (All caps were necessary because I don't know how else to say it).
Instead of resources simply being resources, they are affecting the power of skills. Remove the attribute scaling system and people can actually create hybrid builds without having to do anything but manage their resources.

And to answer your obsessive insistence about trying to define those two build videos - you won't like it but to me it's not a yes or no answer. The builds you are referring to are hybrid-ish because they suffer from the attribute scaling system getting in their way. They wouldn't do damage and heal nearly as well if the builds had the same amount of health/stamina/magicka - which is again, the main point.

This is pointless. Don't you understand that your definition of a hybrid is just completely wrong. I don't care what is a hybrid to you, because again, it's your opinion and I don't care about your opinion, sorry. You totally forget that attribute isn't the only thing that increases your stat, gear is also a major factor. Jewelry's traits (arcane/robust) and bonuses from gear sets make up a huge deal of your stats, so it doesn't matter if you put 1 points, 2 points, 64 points or 298 points into magicka, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. Example, you can put all points into magicka and use robust jewelry to get both of your resource pools to a good level.

People can already create hybrid builds, those builds don't fit your definition of hybrid builds? Because your definition is wrong. In this game, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. It's not the way you think it should be? It's like ... your opinion, bro. I like the way that Hybrid builds are something niche and it is an achievement when you can put together a good hybrid build.

There's nothing wrong with saying "Btw no DD puts points into health, it's stupid.", because in fact it's mathematically stupid. I have been doing maths since I was 6 years old, so I am not splitting points into 22/21/21 when building a hybrid, because for a hybrid build, putting points like that is mathematically stupid. It's not "as hybrid as it gets", it's mathematically stupid.

You aren't acknowledging that the problem is attribute scaling. It's not a reg flag to you that something is wrong with the system when it's "mathematically stupid" to put points into health?

I mean, are you even reading your own words? "...as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build."

Lol you're completely cutting out 1/3 of the attributes (health) in your definition of hybrid. Yup, I'm the wrong one, haha.

Attribute scaling is another subject. I am just pointing out that your definition of a hybrid build isn't correct. That's all. And I have said, in my opinion, I like the way that Hybrid builds are something niche and it is an achievement when you can put together a good hybrid build. But that's purely my opinion, you may or may not care about it, that's fine.

Back to the point, I don't see what's wrong with the system when you are a DD and it's "mathematically stupid" to put points into health, you are not a tank. It's fine, you can keep your definition of hybrid, but it isn't shared among the community. In this game, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. Of course keep your health at the point where you are comfortable with, it goes without saying, and please note attribute isn't the only way to increase your health pool either, you get most of your health from armour glyphs, gear set bonus and food/drink, and that's how everyone gets their health pool to a comfortable level.

It is and has always been about attribute scaling - read the first post of the thread! I'm going to help you out here - really simplify it for you. Take all attributes, armor, glyphs, etc. and split everything as evenly as possible between health, magicka, and stamina. Now we have three equal resource pools. This is as hybrid as it gets.

You said it yourself, this is a "mathematically stupid" decision because I put points into health.

That's where the problem lies. Tell me, yes or no, (if you say anything else then I will automatically assume "yes") do you think it is a good system when the player's ability to do damage and heal is punished for putting points into health?
(Like how I used your own argument method here?)

If you are not a tank, yes you should be punished for putting points into health.

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Here is a completed hybrid build wih a roughly equal damage distribution between physical and magical damage. The build works by stacking max magicka and max weapon damage.

This is a PvP build for he most part, but I have completed most of the Morrowind world bosses solo with this build. I think it would have potential in VMSA if I switched skills to a more damage over time spec. Otherwise it's sustain and survivability would be more then fine for VMSA.

Here's a build link wih gameplay if you guys are interested: https://youtu.be/tp-09x2A1-U

I also have a very detailed hybrid build gear guide, showing multiple different hybrid build gear setups for different types of hybrid specs.
https://youtu.be/qF3LaYfNTaU

One of the key talking points concerning hybrid viability is allowing players to disperse attributes as they so desire, with the only penalty (ideally) being frequency of skill usage due to the size of the attribute pools. Though I'm not discrediting the builds in these videos as hybrids, I do recognize that your hybrid potential is being limited because you are forced to put most of your attribute points into one particular stat.

I would love to see ZOS recognize that a 22/21/21 divide really isn't viable for all content as a non-tank, and make adjustments accordingly.

Your definition of hybrid in ESO is just wrong. So you are saying Jack's builds aren't hybrid builds? Simple question, are Jack's builds hybrid builds? Yes/No? Just Yes or No. If you try to talk gibberish and avoid to give a Yes/No answer, I will take it as a Yes.

Like pure builds, hybrid builds also need to be optimized. There are bad pure builds, and there are bad hybrid builds, your hybrid build is a bad build overall, no on in the right mind would split points into a 22/21/21 especially when building a hybrid.

That's the point (see bold). One of my main arguments is that a 22/21/21 divide shouldn't impact power of skills, only provide a near equal divide of resource availability.

So you decided to talk gibberish instead of answering the question. As I have said earlier, it means you agree with me that Jack's builds are hybrid builds, so your definition of hybrid is wrong, which means your argument is invalid.

The 22/21/21 divide is as hybrid as it gets, and you're saying that definition of a hybrid is wrong? The way you are phrasing your argument doesn't work. You're demanding a yes or no answer for a question that doesn't have a yes or no answer. Think of hybrids on a spectrum - it's not a yes or no scenario. While certain builds have hybrid-like features, I find it hard to call a build that places 64 attribute points into a single attribute a "true" hybrid.

And you're missing the main point. The attribute scaling system makes your build significantly weaker than other builds if you want to, say... put a 22/21/21 divide into your attribute points. Why should a build that gets as hybrid-like as possible be punished?

Edit: Typo

It's your opinion that "22/21/21 divide is as hybrid as it gets", and yes your definition of a hybrid is completely wrong. It can't even be more wrong. Attribute isn't the only thing that increases your stat, gear is also a major factor. Jewelry's traits (arcane/robust) and bonuses from gear sets make up a huge deal of your stats, so it doesn't matter if you put 1 points, 2 points, 64 points or 298 points into magicka, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. Example, you can put all points into magicka and use robust jewelry to get both of your resource pools to a good level. Btw no DD puts points into health, it's stupid.

It is a simple yes and no answer. "Are Jack's builds (shown in his videos) hybrid builds?" Simple as that. It's like showing a basket of fruit and asking you "Are these apples?".

Don't you understand that you're ruining your own argument when you say, "Btw no DD puts points into health, it's stupid."

THAT'S THE WHOLE PROBLEM! (All caps were necessary because I don't know how else to say it).
Instead of resources simply being resources, they are affecting the power of skills. Remove the attribute scaling system and people can actually create hybrid builds without having to do anything but manage their resources.

And to answer your obsessive insistence about trying to define those two build videos - you won't like it but to me it's not a yes or no answer. The builds you are referring to are hybrid-ish because they suffer from the attribute scaling system getting in their way. They wouldn't do damage and heal nearly as well if the builds had the same amount of health/stamina/magicka - which is again, the main point.

This is pointless. Don't you understand that your definition of a hybrid is just completely wrong. I don't care what is a hybrid to you, because again, it's your opinion and I don't care about your opinion, sorry. You totally forget that attribute isn't the only thing that increases your stat, gear is also a major factor. Jewelry's traits (arcane/robust) and bonuses from gear sets make up a huge deal of your stats, so it doesn't matter if you put 1 points, 2 points, 64 points or 298 points into magicka, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. Example, you can put all points into magicka and use robust jewelry to get both of your resource pools to a good level.

People can already create hybrid builds, those builds don't fit your definition of hybrid builds? Because your definition is wrong. In this game, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. It's not the way you think it should be? It's like ... your opinion, bro. I like the way that Hybrid builds are something niche and it is an achievement when you can put together a good hybrid build.

There's nothing wrong with saying "Btw no DD puts points into health, it's stupid.", because in fact it's mathematically stupid. I have been doing maths since I was 6 years old, so I am not splitting points into 22/21/21 when building a hybrid, because for a hybrid build, putting points like that is mathematically stupid. It's not "as hybrid as it gets", it's mathematically stupid.

You aren't acknowledging that the problem is attribute scaling. It's not a reg flag to you that something is wrong with the system when it's "mathematically stupid" to put points into health?

I mean, are you even reading your own words? "...as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build."

Lol you're completely cutting out 1/3 of the attributes (health) in your definition of hybrid. Yup, I'm the wrong one, haha.

Attribute scaling is another subject. I am just pointing out that your definition of a hybrid build isn't correct. That's all. And I have said, in my opinion, I like the way that Hybrid builds are something niche and it is an achievement when you can put together a good hybrid build. But that's purely my opinion, you may or may not care about it, that's fine.

Back to the point, I don't see what's wrong with the system when you are a DD and it's "mathematically stupid" to put points into health, you are not a tank. It's fine, you can keep your definition of hybrid, but it isn't shared among the community. In this game, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. Of course keep your health at the point where you are comfortable with, it goes without saying, and please note attribute isn't the only way to increase your health pool either, you get most of your health from armour glyphs, gear set bonus and food/drink, and that's how everyone gets their health pool to a comfortable level.

It is and has always been about attribute scaling - read the first post of the thread! I'm going to help you out here - really simplify it for you. Take all attributes, armor, glyphs, etc. and split everything as evenly as possible between health, magicka, and stamina. Now we have three equal resource pools. This is as hybrid as it gets.

You said it yourself, this is a "mathematically stupid" decision because I put points into health.

That's where the problem lies. Tell me, yes or no, (if you say anything else then I will automatically assume "yes") do you think it is a good system when the player's ability to do damage and heal is punished for putting points into health?
(Like how I used your own argument method here?)

If you are not a tank, yes you should be punished for putting points into health.

So what you're telling me then is that you support a system that punishes all non-tank hybrids.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Here is a completed hybrid build wih a roughly equal damage distribution between physical and magical damage. The build works by stacking max magicka and max weapon damage.

This is a PvP build for he most part, but I have completed most of the Morrowind world bosses solo with this build. I think it would have potential in VMSA if I switched skills to a more damage over time spec. Otherwise it's sustain and survivability would be more then fine for VMSA.

Here's a build link wih gameplay if you guys are interested: https://youtu.be/tp-09x2A1-U

I also have a very detailed hybrid build gear guide, showing multiple different hybrid build gear setups for different types of hybrid specs.
https://youtu.be/qF3LaYfNTaU

One of the key talking points concerning hybrid viability is allowing players to disperse attributes as they so desire, with the only penalty (ideally) being frequency of skill usage due to the size of the attribute pools. Though I'm not discrediting the builds in these videos as hybrids, I do recognize that your hybrid potential is being limited because you are forced to put most of your attribute points into one particular stat.

I would love to see ZOS recognize that a 22/21/21 divide really isn't viable for all content as a non-tank, and make adjustments accordingly.

Your definition of hybrid in ESO is just wrong. So you are saying Jack's builds aren't hybrid builds? Simple question, are Jack's builds hybrid builds? Yes/No? Just Yes or No. If you try to talk gibberish and avoid to give a Yes/No answer, I will take it as a Yes.

Like pure builds, hybrid builds also need to be optimized. There are bad pure builds, and there are bad hybrid builds, your hybrid build is a bad build overall, no on in the right mind would split points into a 22/21/21 especially when building a hybrid.

That's the point (see bold). One of my main arguments is that a 22/21/21 divide shouldn't impact power of skills, only provide a near equal divide of resource availability.

So you decided to talk gibberish instead of answering the question. As I have said earlier, it means you agree with me that Jack's builds are hybrid builds, so your definition of hybrid is wrong, which means your argument is invalid.

The 22/21/21 divide is as hybrid as it gets, and you're saying that definition of a hybrid is wrong? The way you are phrasing your argument doesn't work. You're demanding a yes or no answer for a question that doesn't have a yes or no answer. Think of hybrids on a spectrum - it's not a yes or no scenario. While certain builds have hybrid-like features, I find it hard to call a build that places 64 attribute points into a single attribute a "true" hybrid.

And you're missing the main point. The attribute scaling system makes your build significantly weaker than other builds if you want to, say... put a 22/21/21 divide into your attribute points. Why should a build that gets as hybrid-like as possible be punished?

Edit: Typo

It's your opinion that "22/21/21 divide is as hybrid as it gets", and yes your definition of a hybrid is completely wrong. It can't even be more wrong. Attribute isn't the only thing that increases your stat, gear is also a major factor. Jewelry's traits (arcane/robust) and bonuses from gear sets make up a huge deal of your stats, so it doesn't matter if you put 1 points, 2 points, 64 points or 298 points into magicka, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. Example, you can put all points into magicka and use robust jewelry to get both of your resource pools to a good level. Btw no DD puts points into health, it's stupid.

It is a simple yes and no answer. "Are Jack's builds (shown in his videos) hybrid builds?" Simple as that. It's like showing a basket of fruit and asking you "Are these apples?".

Don't you understand that you're ruining your own argument when you say, "Btw no DD puts points into health, it's stupid."

THAT'S THE WHOLE PROBLEM! (All caps were necessary because I don't know how else to say it).
Instead of resources simply being resources, they are affecting the power of skills. Remove the attribute scaling system and people can actually create hybrid builds without having to do anything but manage their resources.

And to answer your obsessive insistence about trying to define those two build videos - you won't like it but to me it's not a yes or no answer. The builds you are referring to are hybrid-ish because they suffer from the attribute scaling system getting in their way. They wouldn't do damage and heal nearly as well if the builds had the same amount of health/stamina/magicka - which is again, the main point.

This is pointless. Don't you understand that your definition of a hybrid is just completely wrong. I don't care what is a hybrid to you, because again, it's your opinion and I don't care about your opinion, sorry. You totally forget that attribute isn't the only thing that increases your stat, gear is also a major factor. Jewelry's traits (arcane/robust) and bonuses from gear sets make up a huge deal of your stats, so it doesn't matter if you put 1 points, 2 points, 64 points or 298 points into magicka, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. Example, you can put all points into magicka and use robust jewelry to get both of your resource pools to a good level.

People can already create hybrid builds, those builds don't fit your definition of hybrid builds? Because your definition is wrong. In this game, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. It's not the way you think it should be? It's like ... your opinion, bro. I like the way that Hybrid builds are something niche and it is an achievement when you can put together a good hybrid build.

There's nothing wrong with saying "Btw no DD puts points into health, it's stupid.", because in fact it's mathematically stupid. I have been doing maths since I was 6 years old, so I am not splitting points into 22/21/21 when building a hybrid, because for a hybrid build, putting points like that is mathematically stupid. It's not "as hybrid as it gets", it's mathematically stupid.

You aren't acknowledging that the problem is attribute scaling. It's not a reg flag to you that something is wrong with the system when it's "mathematically stupid" to put points into health?

I mean, are you even reading your own words? "...as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build."

Lol you're completely cutting out 1/3 of the attributes (health) in your definition of hybrid. Yup, I'm the wrong one, haha.

Attribute scaling is another subject. I am just pointing out that your definition of a hybrid build isn't correct. That's all. And I have said, in my opinion, I like the way that Hybrid builds are something niche and it is an achievement when you can put together a good hybrid build. But that's purely my opinion, you may or may not care about it, that's fine.

Back to the point, I don't see what's wrong with the system when you are a DD and it's "mathematically stupid" to put points into health, you are not a tank. It's fine, you can keep your definition of hybrid, but it isn't shared among the community. In this game, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. Of course keep your health at the point where you are comfortable with, it goes without saying, and please note attribute isn't the only way to increase your health pool either, you get most of your health from armour glyphs, gear set bonus and food/drink, and that's how everyone gets their health pool to a comfortable level.

It is and has always been about attribute scaling - read the first post of the thread! I'm going to help you out here - really simplify it for you. Take all attributes, armor, glyphs, etc. and split everything as evenly as possible between health, magicka, and stamina. Now we have three equal resource pools. This is as hybrid as it gets.

You said it yourself, this is a "mathematically stupid" decision because I put points into health.

That's where the problem lies. Tell me, yes or no, (if you say anything else then I will automatically assume "yes") do you think it is a good system when the player's ability to do damage and heal is punished for putting points into health?
(Like how I used your own argument method here?)

If you are not a tank, yes you should be punished for putting points into health.

So what you're telling me then is that you support a system that punishes all non-tank hybrids.

No, I support a system that punishes people with poorly built characters. Like if you put points into health when you are a DD.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Here is a completed hybrid build wih a roughly equal damage distribution between physical and magical damage. The build works by stacking max magicka and max weapon damage.

This is a PvP build for he most part, but I have completed most of the Morrowind world bosses solo with this build. I think it would have potential in VMSA if I switched skills to a more damage over time spec. Otherwise it's sustain and survivability would be more then fine for VMSA.

Here's a build link wih gameplay if you guys are interested: https://youtu.be/tp-09x2A1-U

I also have a very detailed hybrid build gear guide, showing multiple different hybrid build gear setups for different types of hybrid specs.
https://youtu.be/qF3LaYfNTaU

One of the key talking points concerning hybrid viability is allowing players to disperse attributes as they so desire, with the only penalty (ideally) being frequency of skill usage due to the size of the attribute pools. Though I'm not discrediting the builds in these videos as hybrids, I do recognize that your hybrid potential is being limited because you are forced to put most of your attribute points into one particular stat.

I would love to see ZOS recognize that a 22/21/21 divide really isn't viable for all content as a non-tank, and make adjustments accordingly.

Your definition of hybrid in ESO is just wrong. So you are saying Jack's builds aren't hybrid builds? Simple question, are Jack's builds hybrid builds? Yes/No? Just Yes or No. If you try to talk gibberish and avoid to give a Yes/No answer, I will take it as a Yes.

Like pure builds, hybrid builds also need to be optimized. There are bad pure builds, and there are bad hybrid builds, your hybrid build is a bad build overall, no on in the right mind would split points into a 22/21/21 especially when building a hybrid.

That's the point (see bold). One of my main arguments is that a 22/21/21 divide shouldn't impact power of skills, only provide a near equal divide of resource availability.

So you decided to talk gibberish instead of answering the question. As I have said earlier, it means you agree with me that Jack's builds are hybrid builds, so your definition of hybrid is wrong, which means your argument is invalid.

The 22/21/21 divide is as hybrid as it gets, and you're saying that definition of a hybrid is wrong? The way you are phrasing your argument doesn't work. You're demanding a yes or no answer for a question that doesn't have a yes or no answer. Think of hybrids on a spectrum - it's not a yes or no scenario. While certain builds have hybrid-like features, I find it hard to call a build that places 64 attribute points into a single attribute a "true" hybrid.

And you're missing the main point. The attribute scaling system makes your build significantly weaker than other builds if you want to, say... put a 22/21/21 divide into your attribute points. Why should a build that gets as hybrid-like as possible be punished?

Edit: Typo

It's your opinion that "22/21/21 divide is as hybrid as it gets", and yes your definition of a hybrid is completely wrong. It can't even be more wrong. Attribute isn't the only thing that increases your stat, gear is also a major factor. Jewelry's traits (arcane/robust) and bonuses from gear sets make up a huge deal of your stats, so it doesn't matter if you put 1 points, 2 points, 64 points or 298 points into magicka, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. Example, you can put all points into magicka and use robust jewelry to get both of your resource pools to a good level. Btw no DD puts points into health, it's stupid.

It is a simple yes and no answer. "Are Jack's builds (shown in his videos) hybrid builds?" Simple as that. It's like showing a basket of fruit and asking you "Are these apples?".

Don't you understand that you're ruining your own argument when you say, "Btw no DD puts points into health, it's stupid."

THAT'S THE WHOLE PROBLEM! (All caps were necessary because I don't know how else to say it).
Instead of resources simply being resources, they are affecting the power of skills. Remove the attribute scaling system and people can actually create hybrid builds without having to do anything but manage their resources.

And to answer your obsessive insistence about trying to define those two build videos - you won't like it but to me it's not a yes or no answer. The builds you are referring to are hybrid-ish because they suffer from the attribute scaling system getting in their way. They wouldn't do damage and heal nearly as well if the builds had the same amount of health/stamina/magicka - which is again, the main point.

This is pointless. Don't you understand that your definition of a hybrid is just completely wrong. I don't care what is a hybrid to you, because again, it's your opinion and I don't care about your opinion, sorry. You totally forget that attribute isn't the only thing that increases your stat, gear is also a major factor. Jewelry's traits (arcane/robust) and bonuses from gear sets make up a huge deal of your stats, so it doesn't matter if you put 1 points, 2 points, 64 points or 298 points into magicka, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. Example, you can put all points into magicka and use robust jewelry to get both of your resource pools to a good level.

People can already create hybrid builds, those builds don't fit your definition of hybrid builds? Because your definition is wrong. In this game, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. It's not the way you think it should be? It's like ... your opinion, bro. I like the way that Hybrid builds are something niche and it is an achievement when you can put together a good hybrid build.

There's nothing wrong with saying "Btw no DD puts points into health, it's stupid.", because in fact it's mathematically stupid. I have been doing maths since I was 6 years old, so I am not splitting points into 22/21/21 when building a hybrid, because for a hybrid build, putting points like that is mathematically stupid. It's not "as hybrid as it gets", it's mathematically stupid.

You aren't acknowledging that the problem is attribute scaling. It's not a reg flag to you that something is wrong with the system when it's "mathematically stupid" to put points into health?

I mean, are you even reading your own words? "...as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build."

Lol you're completely cutting out 1/3 of the attributes (health) in your definition of hybrid. Yup, I'm the wrong one, haha.

Attribute scaling is another subject. I am just pointing out that your definition of a hybrid build isn't correct. That's all. And I have said, in my opinion, I like the way that Hybrid builds are something niche and it is an achievement when you can put together a good hybrid build. But that's purely my opinion, you may or may not care about it, that's fine.

Back to the point, I don't see what's wrong with the system when you are a DD and it's "mathematically stupid" to put points into health, you are not a tank. It's fine, you can keep your definition of hybrid, but it isn't shared among the community. In this game, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. Of course keep your health at the point where you are comfortable with, it goes without saying, and please note attribute isn't the only way to increase your health pool either, you get most of your health from armour glyphs, gear set bonus and food/drink, and that's how everyone gets their health pool to a comfortable level.

It is and has always been about attribute scaling - read the first post of the thread! I'm going to help you out here - really simplify it for you. Take all attributes, armor, glyphs, etc. and split everything as evenly as possible between health, magicka, and stamina. Now we have three equal resource pools. This is as hybrid as it gets.

You said it yourself, this is a "mathematically stupid" decision because I put points into health.

That's where the problem lies. Tell me, yes or no, (if you say anything else then I will automatically assume "yes") do you think it is a good system when the player's ability to do damage and heal is punished for putting points into health?
(Like how I used your own argument method here?)

If you are not a tank, yes you should be punished for putting points into health.

So what you're telling me then is that you support a system that punishes all non-tank hybrids.

No, I support a system that punishes people with poorly built characters. Like if you put points into health when you are a DD.

That's exactly what you are saying, you support a system that punishes non-tanks for putting points into health. You understand that "poorly built characters" depends on the system, right?

If attribute scaling was removed, then putting points into health wouldn't be so detrimental to DD builds.

Of course, I fully support a system that punishes non-tanks for putting too many points into health. You can certainly put a few in to get your health to your comfortable level, but if you put too many, there should be a trade-off.

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Here is a completed hybrid build wih a roughly equal damage distribution between physical and magical damage. The build works by stacking max magicka and max weapon damage.

This is a PvP build for he most part, but I have completed most of the Morrowind world bosses solo with this build. I think it would have potential in VMSA if I switched skills to a more damage over time spec. Otherwise it's sustain and survivability would be more then fine for VMSA.

Here's a build link wih gameplay if you guys are interested: https://youtu.be/tp-09x2A1-U

I also have a very detailed hybrid build gear guide, showing multiple different hybrid build gear setups for different types of hybrid specs.
https://youtu.be/qF3LaYfNTaU

One of the key talking points concerning hybrid viability is allowing players to disperse attributes as they so desire, with the only penalty (ideally) being frequency of skill usage due to the size of the attribute pools. Though I'm not discrediting the builds in these videos as hybrids, I do recognize that your hybrid potential is being limited because you are forced to put most of your attribute points into one particular stat.

I would love to see ZOS recognize that a 22/21/21 divide really isn't viable for all content as a non-tank, and make adjustments accordingly.

Your definition of hybrid in ESO is just wrong. So you are saying Jack's builds aren't hybrid builds? Simple question, are Jack's builds hybrid builds? Yes/No? Just Yes or No. If you try to talk gibberish and avoid to give a Yes/No answer, I will take it as a Yes.

Like pure builds, hybrid builds also need to be optimized. There are bad pure builds, and there are bad hybrid builds, your hybrid build is a bad build overall, no on in the right mind would split points into a 22/21/21 especially when building a hybrid.

That's the point (see bold). One of my main arguments is that a 22/21/21 divide shouldn't impact power of skills, only provide a near equal divide of resource availability.

So you decided to talk gibberish instead of answering the question. As I have said earlier, it means you agree with me that Jack's builds are hybrid builds, so your definition of hybrid is wrong, which means your argument is invalid.

The 22/21/21 divide is as hybrid as it gets, and you're saying that definition of a hybrid is wrong? The way you are phrasing your argument doesn't work. You're demanding a yes or no answer for a question that doesn't have a yes or no answer. Think of hybrids on a spectrum - it's not a yes or no scenario. While certain builds have hybrid-like features, I find it hard to call a build that places 64 attribute points into a single attribute a "true" hybrid.

And you're missing the main point. The attribute scaling system makes your build significantly weaker than other builds if you want to, say... put a 22/21/21 divide into your attribute points. Why should a build that gets as hybrid-like as possible be punished?

Edit: Typo

It's your opinion that "22/21/21 divide is as hybrid as it gets", and yes your definition of a hybrid is completely wrong. It can't even be more wrong. Attribute isn't the only thing that increases your stat, gear is also a major factor. Jewelry's traits (arcane/robust) and bonuses from gear sets make up a huge deal of your stats, so it doesn't matter if you put 1 points, 2 points, 64 points or 298 points into magicka, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. Example, you can put all points into magicka and use robust jewelry to get both of your resource pools to a good level. Btw no DD puts points into health, it's stupid.

It is a simple yes and no answer. "Are Jack's builds (shown in his videos) hybrid builds?" Simple as that. It's like showing a basket of fruit and asking you "Are these apples?".

Don't you understand that you're ruining your own argument when you say, "Btw no DD puts points into health, it's stupid."

THAT'S THE WHOLE PROBLEM! (All caps were necessary because I don't know how else to say it).
Instead of resources simply being resources, they are affecting the power of skills. Remove the attribute scaling system and people can actually create hybrid builds without having to do anything but manage their resources.

And to answer your obsessive insistence about trying to define those two build videos - you won't like it but to me it's not a yes or no answer. The builds you are referring to are hybrid-ish because they suffer from the attribute scaling system getting in their way. They wouldn't do damage and heal nearly as well if the builds had the same amount of health/stamina/magicka - which is again, the main point.

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Uploading to youtube now! Will be about an hour (dang video is 35ish long o.o).

Managed to pull 15k+ ST (which dropped off because I stopped before the target was dead), and about 10k/target AOE. With Agility instead of a random dmg/stam set like I have now, AND getting gud with my rotation? Fully expect to show a 20k self buffed dps parse.

Ended up running Pelinal's over shacklebreaker once I started crunching the set numbers. What the build could still use:

Set for the dw weapons,
Better skill allocation,
My scrubby butt to remember to pop potions on cooldown,
Actually use an ultimate in a dps test.

I would have had a pierce armor slave, but I don't know anyone on PC EU that would have put up with a dps test xD

EDIT: Tag @GrumpyDuckling and post link to video:

https://youtu.be/oSMr_7kjfhs

Using discord for voice...not Ideal. Again, ignore my voice/booping of discord push to talk.

I gotta get a dummy so I can try to compare your results.

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Uploading to youtube now! Will be about an hour (dang video is 35ish long o.o).

Managed to pull 15k+ ST (which dropped off because I stopped before the target was dead), and about 10k/target AOE. With Agility instead of a random dmg/stam set like I have now, AND getting gud with my rotation? Fully expect to show a 20k self buffed dps parse.

Ended up running Pelinal's over shacklebreaker once I started crunching the set numbers. What the build could still use:

Set for the dw weapons,
Better skill allocation,
My scrubby butt to remember to pop potions on cooldown,
Actually use an ultimate in a dps test.

I would have had a pierce armor slave, but I don't know anyone on PC EU that would have put up with a dps test xD

EDIT: Tag @GrumpyDuckling and post link to video:

https://youtu.be/oSMr_7kjfhs

Using discord for voice...not Ideal. Again, ignore my voice/booping of discord push to talk.

Awesome video! I'm excited to see where you end up taking this, and I definitely see what you're saying about sorc being the way to go due to the passives. At the end of the video you talk about potentially involving a pet, which has me interested. It would be tough to give up Caltrops but I can't resist the allure of the Unstable Familiar. I haven't used it much since the nerfs, and it might be hard to keep alive depending on content, but it catches my attention because involving a pet adds to the fun factor.

Side note: After our previous discussions I have been theorycrafting with Templar - Biting Jabs procs major savagery and Reflective Light procs major prophecy, so it opens up additional possibilities with potions. It's still on the workbench but it's getting there.

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Please do not confuse the words 'viable' and 'competetive'. There are a ton of viable hybrid builds capable of pulling the numbers required to complete everything sans HM VMOL/HM VAA.

That does not necessarily mean they are competetive with other DPS or that you will be able to reserve your slot on a raid team with your hybrid.

vi·a·ble
ˈvīəb(ə)l/Submit
adjective
capable of working successfully; feasible.
"the proposed investment was economically viable"
synonyms: feasible, workable, practicable, practical, usable, possible, realistic, achievable, attainable, realizable; informaldoable
"it doesn't sound like a viable solution"
BOTANY
(of a seed or spore) able to germinate.
BIOLOGY
(of a plant, animal, or cell) capable of surviving or living successfully, especially under particular environmental conditions.

"sans HM VMOL/HM VAA" would mean that hybrids aren't viable then, right? They are incapable of working successfully in that content.

TheStealthDude wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

A lot of the Hybrid's woe's were solved with the rework of CP scaling. This has dramatically increased the DPS of hybrids as they benefit far more from basically getting boosts from all DPS stars instead of a select amount of stars making up for their lack of stats.

Hybrids still suffer from a few issues:

- The order of operations Pelinal's works in. For instance, I would love to replace 3pc Arcane Agil and DW Maelstrom with 5pc BSW but due to Pelinal's being the final modifier in the order, BSW provides me absolutely no effects outside of burning. This also affects potion selection and buff requirements.
- The effectiveness of critical and stat bonuses. While these 1-2-3-4 set bonuses do have a plateuing effect over time, these stat and crit increases are significantly outperformed by straight weapon or spell damage creating issues with potential gear variety.
- The critical hit chance percentage should also be equalized under pelinals. This is massive and a big source of damage the Hybrid is missing. An even BIS hybrid will be missing 20% crit on it's alternate stat compared to it's primary stat which accounts for a lot of potential missing damage.

Can you expand on your first point? At first I thought, the same as you, that the Pelinal's order of operations was sub-optimal. However, when thinking through it, I couldn't conceive a situation where I didn't end up with Pelinal's being beneficial. BSW + Pelinals seems like it would be the better choice, as far as weapon/spell damage goes. It seems like Pelinal's not being the last effect would be worse in every way, but your comment makes me wonder what I may be missing.

I would love for crit to be equal with Pelinal's, but I would perhaps even prefer to have penetration equalized. That would make the light armor actually useful for hybrids. If this change were made, we would have a ton more options with light armor sets becoming more viable.

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

In September 2016 the Creative Director of ESO was asked to respond to a comment that included this phrase: "...players are pigeonholed into specific builds because hybrids aren't viable..." The Creative Director of ESO responded to that phrase by saying "I don't believe that." A two minute-plus response ensued to defend the statement, with mentions of both PVP and PVE game play.

Here is the video evidence (from 32:32 to 35:05):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Que9KdffpcQ

So, if hybrid builds are to be considered "viable," then by definition hybrid builds can be used to complete all game content, including Trials, Dungeons, Quests, and Veteran Maelstrom Arena.

Here is the challenge that I have for anyone from ZOS, and especially for the Creative Director of ESO: Create a "true" hybrid build and complete Veteran Maelstrom Arena.

- Split your attribute points as evenly as possible into Health, Magicka, and Stamina (22/21/21).
- Use an end-game craftable 5 piece hybrid set like Pelinal's Aptitude.
- Use a stat-mixing 5 piece set like Armor of the Trainee.
- Fill the remaining 1 or 2 spots as you see fit.
- Complete Veteran Maelstrom Arena with this hybrid build once the Morrowind Patch is active.

If Veteran Maelstrom Arena is completed with the aforementioned build, or one similar, then hybrid builds will have been proved "viable." Until then, I will continue to support changes to attribute scaling and weapon/spell damage divide, because those are two obstacles that I believe are preventing hybrid builds from being viable. Thank you for your time, and I look forward to either being proven wrong, or helping to convince you of the need to work toward a solution that would make hybrid builds more competitive in all game content.