3/2/18 ESO Live Stream: ZOS, I Challenge You to Prove Your Stance on Hybrid Builds

hmsdragonfly

A guide of how to build a hybrid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF3LaYfNTaU

I stopped playing my Pelinal hybrid since the sustain nerf, I find that it's so hard to sustain with Pelinal + a damage set, and I don't want to farm Amber Plasm, but for PvP, Hybrid builds still have their niche spot. Blobsky has a hybrid sorc build with Red Mountain which is insanely strong. There's also a guy with a hybrid Templar werewolf build with Pelinal and Prisoner, and the guy is basically immortal with his Rally + BoL heal and the werewolf heal.

hmsdragonfly

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Here is a completed hybrid build wih a roughly equal damage distribution between physical and magical damage. The build works by stacking max magicka and max weapon damage.

This is a PvP build for he most part, but I have completed most of the Morrowind world bosses solo with this build. I think it would have potential in VMSA if I switched skills to a more damage over time spec. Otherwise it's sustain and survivability would be more then fine for VMSA.

Here's a build link wih gameplay if you guys are interested: https://youtu.be/tp-09x2A1-U

I also have a very detailed hybrid build gear guide, showing multiple different hybrid build gear setups for different types of hybrid specs.
https://youtu.be/qF3LaYfNTaU

One of the key talking points concerning hybrid viability is allowing players to disperse attributes as they so desire, with the only penalty (ideally) being frequency of skill usage due to the size of the attribute pools. Though I'm not discrediting the builds in these videos as hybrids, I do recognize that your hybrid potential is being limited because you are forced to put most of your attribute points into one particular stat.

I would love to see ZOS recognize that a 22/21/21 divide really isn't viable for all content as a non-tank, and make adjustments accordingly.

Your definition of hybrid in ESO is just wrong. So you are saying Jack's builds aren't hybrid builds? Simple question, are Jack's builds hybrid builds? Yes/No? Just Yes or No. If you try to talk gibberish and avoid to give a Yes/No answer, I will take it as a Yes.

Like pure builds, hybrid builds also need to be optimized. There are bad pure builds, and there are bad hybrid builds, your hybrid build is a bad build overall, no on in the right mind would split points into a 22/21/21 especially when building a hybrid.

F7sus4

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Here is the challenge that I have for anyone from ZOS, and especially for the Creative Director of ESO: Create a "true" hybrid build and complete Veteran Maelstrom Arena.

- Split your attribute points as evenly as possible into Health, Magicka, and Stamina (22/21/21).
- Use an end-game craftable 5 piece hybrid set like Pelinal's Aptitude.
- Use a stat-mixing 5 piece set like Armor of the Trainee.
- Fill the remaining 1 or 2 spots as you see fit.
- Complete Veteran Maelstrom Arena with this hybrid build once the Morrowind Patch is active.

If Veteran Maelstrom Arena is completed with the aforementioned build, or one similar, then hybrid builds will have been proved "viable."

...proved to be able to clear vMSA (which was already done naked and/or using that 2-hander broom). That absolutely doesn't mean real endgame viability like providing proper DPS parses in DPS-race fights in Trials.

notimetocare

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

In September 2016 the Creative Director of ESO was asked to respond to a comment that included this phrase: "...players are pigeonholed into specific builds because hybrids aren't viable..." The Creative Director of ESO responded to that phrase by saying "I don't believe that." A two minute-plus response ensued to defend the statement, with mentions of both PVP and PVE game play.

Here is the video evidence (from 32:32 to 35:05):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Que9KdffpcQ

So, if hybrid builds are to be considered "viable," then by definition hybrid builds can be used to complete all game content, including Trials, Dungeons, Quests, and Veteran Maelstrom Arena.

Here is the challenge that I have for anyone from ZOS, and especially for the Creative Director of ESO: Create a "true" hybrid build and complete Veteran Maelstrom Arena.

- Split your attribute points as evenly as possible into Health, Magicka, and Stamina (22/21/21).
- Use an end-game craftable 5 piece hybrid set like Pelinal's Aptitude.
- Use a stat-mixing 5 piece set like Armor of the Trainee.
- Fill the remaining 1 or 2 spots as you see fit.
- Complete Veteran Maelstrom Arena with this hybrid build once the Morrowind Patch is active.

If Veteran Maelstrom Arena is completed with the aforementioned build, or one similar, then hybrid builds will have been proved "viable." Until then, I will continue to support changes to attribute scaling and weapon/spell damage divide, because those are two obstacles that I believe are preventing hybrid builds from being viable. Thank you for your time, and I look forward to either being proven wrong, or helping to convince you of the need to work toward a solution that would make hybrid builds more competitive in all game content.

Love a good nonsense post, even if this is a necro.
Viable does not mean it will complete all content. Why? Because not everyone cares about vMA or vet trials or competitive pvp.

The hardest content will always require the best setups. I mean, for as long as I can remember Magicka dps is far superior to stam for vet trials. Does ZoS have to prove stamina dps is viable because it's not 'meta strength'?

GrumpyDuckling

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Here is a completed hybrid build wih a roughly equal damage distribution between physical and magical damage. The build works by stacking max magicka and max weapon damage.

This is a PvP build for he most part, but I have completed most of the Morrowind world bosses solo with this build. I think it would have potential in VMSA if I switched skills to a more damage over time spec. Otherwise it's sustain and survivability would be more then fine for VMSA.

Here's a build link wih gameplay if you guys are interested: https://youtu.be/tp-09x2A1-U

I also have a very detailed hybrid build gear guide, showing multiple different hybrid build gear setups for different types of hybrid specs.
https://youtu.be/qF3LaYfNTaU

One of the key talking points concerning hybrid viability is allowing players to disperse attributes as they so desire, with the only penalty (ideally) being frequency of skill usage due to the size of the attribute pools. Though I'm not discrediting the builds in these videos as hybrids, I do recognize that your hybrid potential is being limited because you are forced to put most of your attribute points into one particular stat.

I would love to see ZOS recognize that a 22/21/21 divide really isn't viable for all content as a non-tank, and make adjustments accordingly.

Your definition of hybrid in ESO is just wrong. So you are saying Jack's builds aren't hybrid builds? Simple question, are Jack's builds hybrid builds? Yes/No? Just Yes or No. If you try to talk gibberish and avoid to give a Yes/No answer, I will take it as a Yes.

Like pure builds, hybrid builds also need to be optimized. There are bad pure builds, and there are bad hybrid builds, your hybrid build is a bad build overall, no on in the right mind would split points into a 22/21/21 especially when building a hybrid.

That's the point (see bold). One of my main arguments is that a 22/21/21 divide shouldn't impact power of skills, only provide a near equal divide of resource availability.

Lord_Eomer

Tanks builds only look possibile with hybrid setup which is more applicable in PVP

Hybrid idea looks flop to me as you lose dps at the end!

I hate this idea and hate new Morrowind Craftable Sets experiment!

UppGRAYxDD

ZOS's idea of hybrid: Mag Sorc running Redmountain.

hmsdragonfly

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Here is a completed hybrid build wih a roughly equal damage distribution between physical and magical damage. The build works by stacking max magicka and max weapon damage.

This is a PvP build for he most part, but I have completed most of the Morrowind world bosses solo with this build. I think it would have potential in VMSA if I switched skills to a more damage over time spec. Otherwise it's sustain and survivability would be more then fine for VMSA.

Here's a build link wih gameplay if you guys are interested: https://youtu.be/tp-09x2A1-U

I also have a very detailed hybrid build gear guide, showing multiple different hybrid build gear setups for different types of hybrid specs.
https://youtu.be/qF3LaYfNTaU

One of the key talking points concerning hybrid viability is allowing players to disperse attributes as they so desire, with the only penalty (ideally) being frequency of skill usage due to the size of the attribute pools. Though I'm not discrediting the builds in these videos as hybrids, I do recognize that your hybrid potential is being limited because you are forced to put most of your attribute points into one particular stat.

I would love to see ZOS recognize that a 22/21/21 divide really isn't viable for all content as a non-tank, and make adjustments accordingly.

Your definition of hybrid in ESO is just wrong. So you are saying Jack's builds aren't hybrid builds? Simple question, are Jack's builds hybrid builds? Yes/No? Just Yes or No. If you try to talk gibberish and avoid to give a Yes/No answer, I will take it as a Yes.

Like pure builds, hybrid builds also need to be optimized. There are bad pure builds, and there are bad hybrid builds, your hybrid build is a bad build overall, no on in the right mind would split points into a 22/21/21 especially when building a hybrid.

That's the point (see bold). One of my main arguments is that a 22/21/21 divide shouldn't impact power of skills, only provide a near equal divide of resource availability.

So you decided to talk gibberish instead of answering the question. As I have said earlier, it means you agree with me that Jack's builds are hybrid builds, so your definition of hybrid is wrong, which means your argument is invalid.

PS4_ZeColmeia

My NB hybrid that still needs Molag Kena shoulders, but this is buffed without weapon proc. 10% + 4k physical pen and around 11k spell pen.

I feel very viable in all content.

GrumpyDuckling

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Here is a completed hybrid build wih a roughly equal damage distribution between physical and magical damage. The build works by stacking max magicka and max weapon damage.

This is a PvP build for he most part, but I have completed most of the Morrowind world bosses solo with this build. I think it would have potential in VMSA if I switched skills to a more damage over time spec. Otherwise it's sustain and survivability would be more then fine for VMSA.

Here's a build link wih gameplay if you guys are interested: https://youtu.be/tp-09x2A1-U

I also have a very detailed hybrid build gear guide, showing multiple different hybrid build gear setups for different types of hybrid specs.
https://youtu.be/qF3LaYfNTaU

One of the key talking points concerning hybrid viability is allowing players to disperse attributes as they so desire, with the only penalty (ideally) being frequency of skill usage due to the size of the attribute pools. Though I'm not discrediting the builds in these videos as hybrids, I do recognize that your hybrid potential is being limited because you are forced to put most of your attribute points into one particular stat.

I would love to see ZOS recognize that a 22/21/21 divide really isn't viable for all content as a non-tank, and make adjustments accordingly.

Your definition of hybrid in ESO is just wrong. So you are saying Jack's builds aren't hybrid builds? Simple question, are Jack's builds hybrid builds? Yes/No? Just Yes or No. If you try to talk gibberish and avoid to give a Yes/No answer, I will take it as a Yes.

Like pure builds, hybrid builds also need to be optimized. There are bad pure builds, and there are bad hybrid builds, your hybrid build is a bad build overall, no on in the right mind would split points into a 22/21/21 especially when building a hybrid.

That's the point (see bold). One of my main arguments is that a 22/21/21 divide shouldn't impact power of skills, only provide a near equal divide of resource availability.

So you decided to talk gibberish instead of answering the question. As I have said earlier, it means you agree with me that Jack's builds are hybrid builds, so your definition of hybrid is wrong, which means your argument is invalid.

The 22/21/21 divide is as hybrid as it gets, and you're saying that definition of a hybrid is wrong? The way you are phrasing your argument doesn't work. You're demanding a yes or no answer for a question that doesn't have a yes or no answer. Think of hybrids on a spectrum - it's not a yes or no scenario. While certain builds have hybrid-like features, I find it hard to call a build that places 64 attribute points into a single attribute a "true" hybrid.

And you're missing the main point. The attribute scaling system makes your build significantly weaker than other builds if you want to, say... put a 22/21/21 divide into your attribute points. Why should a build that gets as hybrid-like as possible be punished?

Edit: Typo

GrumpyDuckling

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@GrumpyDuckling

The challenge is absurd because the premise is false.

No one is pigeonholed into playing any specific build. Anyone can play a hybrid build or anything they want. Play as you want is alive and well.

However, play as you want doesn't mean any build will be optimal for every, or any, situation.

It's a weak argument to suggest otherwise.

If you don't like the argument then take it up with ZOS because it's their argument. The creative director disagrees with the statement that hybrids aren't viable. I simply would like to see proof.

BTW, A hybrid build cleared vMA without any CP. A few have cleared it without CP just to prove it could be done. Of course they knew it well.

Were they able to do it with a 22/21/21 divide? That's as hybrid as it gets and shows how ridiculous the scaling system is for hybrid viability.

DocFrost72

@GrumpyDuckling Sorry for the long silence; been tinkering around with both hybrid and traditional DPS on the PTS and live, as well as graduation and general real world stuff (*Shivers*). My goal today is to make a video with what I have right now. If I'm feeling ambitious, I'll record round one vet maelstrom as a proof of concept.

As a side note, I'm going go out and say it here...so far my testing has shown that Sorcs are THE best luck I've had with hybrids. Implosion, energized, and expert mage are straight up broken feeling, and all I've seen of other classes offer little to none of this. I HAD hoped for a warden hybrid, but even that fell through (mag warden so weak they had to buff cold AND magic, still subpar. "Pay2win" my rear, lmao).

Will check back once I get the video done

hmsdragonfly

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Here is a completed hybrid build wih a roughly equal damage distribution between physical and magical damage. The build works by stacking max magicka and max weapon damage.

This is a PvP build for he most part, but I have completed most of the Morrowind world bosses solo with this build. I think it would have potential in VMSA if I switched skills to a more damage over time spec. Otherwise it's sustain and survivability would be more then fine for VMSA.

Here's a build link wih gameplay if you guys are interested: https://youtu.be/tp-09x2A1-U

I also have a very detailed hybrid build gear guide, showing multiple different hybrid build gear setups for different types of hybrid specs.
https://youtu.be/qF3LaYfNTaU

One of the key talking points concerning hybrid viability is allowing players to disperse attributes as they so desire, with the only penalty (ideally) being frequency of skill usage due to the size of the attribute pools. Though I'm not discrediting the builds in these videos as hybrids, I do recognize that your hybrid potential is being limited because you are forced to put most of your attribute points into one particular stat.

I would love to see ZOS recognize that a 22/21/21 divide really isn't viable for all content as a non-tank, and make adjustments accordingly.

Your definition of hybrid in ESO is just wrong. So you are saying Jack's builds aren't hybrid builds? Simple question, are Jack's builds hybrid builds? Yes/No? Just Yes or No. If you try to talk gibberish and avoid to give a Yes/No answer, I will take it as a Yes.

Like pure builds, hybrid builds also need to be optimized. There are bad pure builds, and there are bad hybrid builds, your hybrid build is a bad build overall, no on in the right mind would split points into a 22/21/21 especially when building a hybrid.

That's the point (see bold). One of my main arguments is that a 22/21/21 divide shouldn't impact power of skills, only provide a near equal divide of resource availability.

So you decided to talk gibberish instead of answering the question. As I have said earlier, it means you agree with me that Jack's builds are hybrid builds, so your definition of hybrid is wrong, which means your argument is invalid.

The 22/21/21 divide is as hybrid as it gets, and you're saying that definition of a hybrid is wrong? The way you are phrasing your argument doesn't work. You're demanding a yes or no answer for a question that doesn't have a yes or no answer. Think of hybrids on a spectrum - it's not a yes or no scenario. While certain builds have hybrid-like features, I find it hard to call a build that places 64 attribute points into a single attribute a "true" hybrid.

And you're missing the main point. The attribute scaling system makes your build significantly weaker than other builds if you want to, say... put a 22/21/21 divide into your attribute points. Why should a build that gets as hybrid-like as possible be punished?

Edit: Typo

It's your opinion that "22/21/21 divide is as hybrid as it gets", and yes your definition of a hybrid is completely wrong. It can't even be more wrong. Attribute isn't the only thing that increases your stat, gear is also a major factor. Jewelry's traits (arcane/robust) and bonuses from gear sets make up a huge deal of your stats, so it doesn't matter if you put 1 points, 2 points, 64 points or 298 points into magicka, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. Example, you can put all points into magicka and use robust jewelry to get both of your resource pools to a good level. Btw no DD puts points into health, it's stupid.

It is a simple yes and no answer. "Are Jack's builds (shown in his videos) hybrid builds?" Simple as that. It's like showing a basket of fruit and asking you "Are these apples?".

I have been doing maths since I was 6 years old, so I am not splitting points into 22/21/21 when building a hybrid, because for a hybrid build, putting points like that is mathematically stupid. It's not "as hybrid as it gets", it's mathematically stupid.

GrumpyDuckling

DocFrost72 wrote: »

@GrumpyDuckling Sorry for the long silence; been tinkering around with both hybrid and traditional DPS on the PTS and live, as well as graduation and general real world stuff (*Shivers*). My goal today is to make a video with what I have right now. If I'm feeling ambitious, I'll record round one vet maelstrom as a proof of concept.

As a side note, I'm going go out and say it here...so far my testing has shown that Sorcs are THE best luck I've had with hybrids. Implosion, energized, and expert mage are straight up broken feeling, and all I've seen of other classes offer little to none of this. I HAD hoped for a warden hybrid, but even that fell through (mag warden so weak they had to buff cold AND magic, still subpar. "Pay2win" my rear, lmao).

Will check back once I get the video done

Awesome, looking forward to it! Good luck!

PS4_ZeColmeia

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Here is a completed hybrid build wih a roughly equal damage distribution between physical and magical damage. The build works by stacking max magicka and max weapon damage.

This is a PvP build for he most part, but I have completed most of the Morrowind world bosses solo with this build. I think it would have potential in VMSA if I switched skills to a more damage over time spec. Otherwise it's sustain and survivability would be more then fine for VMSA.

Here's a build link wih gameplay if you guys are interested: https://youtu.be/tp-09x2A1-U

I also have a very detailed hybrid build gear guide, showing multiple different hybrid build gear setups for different types of hybrid specs.
https://youtu.be/qF3LaYfNTaU

One of the key talking points concerning hybrid viability is allowing players to disperse attributes as they so desire, with the only penalty (ideally) being frequency of skill usage due to the size of the attribute pools. Though I'm not discrediting the builds in these videos as hybrids, I do recognize that your hybrid potential is being limited because you are forced to put most of your attribute points into one particular stat.

I would love to see ZOS recognize that a 22/21/21 divide really isn't viable for all content as a non-tank, and make adjustments accordingly.

Your definition of hybrid in ESO is just wrong. So you are saying Jack's builds aren't hybrid builds? Simple question, are Jack's builds hybrid builds? Yes/No? Just Yes or No. If you try to talk gibberish and avoid to give a Yes/No answer, I will take it as a Yes.

Like pure builds, hybrid builds also need to be optimized. There are bad pure builds, and there are bad hybrid builds, your hybrid build is a bad build overall, no on in the right mind would split points into a 22/21/21 especially when building a hybrid.

That's the point (see bold). One of my main arguments is that a 22/21/21 divide shouldn't impact power of skills, only provide a near equal divide of resource availability.

So you decided to talk gibberish instead of answering the question. As I have said earlier, it means you agree with me that Jack's builds are hybrid builds, so your definition of hybrid is wrong, which means your argument is invalid.

The 22/21/21 divide is as hybrid as it gets, and you're saying that definition of a hybrid is wrong? The way you are phrasing your argument doesn't work. You're demanding a yes or no answer for a question that doesn't have a yes or no answer. Think of hybrids on a spectrum - it's not a yes or no scenario. While certain builds have hybrid-like features, I find it hard to call a build that places 64 attribute points into a single attribute a "true" hybrid.

And you're missing the main point. The attribute scaling system makes your build significantly weaker than other builds if you want to, say... put a 22/21/21 divide into your attribute points. Why should a build that gets as hybrid-like as possible be punished?

Edit: Typo

I've run various builds of hybrid on my MNB since PS4 launch. I would say there are many, many, many different flavors of hybrids. Generally I would say a purist build is driven by the skills on the bar, if all of your damage/healing skills are based on stam/weapon then you're a stam build, vice versa for magicka. This gets rid of the I'm a hybrid "because I use DW on my execute bar" or "because I put a few points in stamina so I could dodge roll more".

IMHO hybrid means you are trying to get the best out of stamina and magicka skills so that you can fill more situations without switching characters. Example: In trials I will use steel tornado when killing fluff enemies or in a boss battle with lots of adds, but when its a boss battle I use impale because it hits harder and I want to stay at range.

My steel tornado nor my impale hit as hard as a stam or mage build because they focus only on those stats. I do however excel in the whole trial because I can change my bar or skills to fit the situation in any fight. This also lets me take advantage of many more sets than most people can.

TBH the thing that makes hybrids hard is the skill point investment. Since i only run one character, I also do crafting on this one. I have 338 sp and still need 28 more in order to heal with resto staff and get a few other skills I need. To honestly be a hybrid, you have to use shacklebreaker or pelinal's, depending on your racial choice, to really get value out of it. I also think you need to be either a vamp or WW as being so will reap additional benefits and help augment your "spread thin" stats.

Hybrids are not easily done, they don't come together easily, you have to have a lot of planning around your class, race, and set choices. It takes a lot of respec'ing and it takes a lot of work getting familiar with every morph of your class, guild, and world skills to get all of the buffs in the right place to use both bars of resources and both not gimp yourself and give yourself time to regen them at different intervals. This got harder in Morrowind, but the focus on everyone having to worry about resources actually lowered the damage threshold low enough to make hybrids more competitive. Again, your competitiveness is very contingent on knowing the content you will be playing before hand and adjusting your skills, bars, and sets beforehand and sometimes multiple times in the same content.

GrumpyDuckling

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Here is a completed hybrid build wih a roughly equal damage distribution between physical and magical damage. The build works by stacking max magicka and max weapon damage.

This is a PvP build for he most part, but I have completed most of the Morrowind world bosses solo with this build. I think it would have potential in VMSA if I switched skills to a more damage over time spec. Otherwise it's sustain and survivability would be more then fine for VMSA.

Here's a build link wih gameplay if you guys are interested: https://youtu.be/tp-09x2A1-U

I also have a very detailed hybrid build gear guide, showing multiple different hybrid build gear setups for different types of hybrid specs.
https://youtu.be/qF3LaYfNTaU

One of the key talking points concerning hybrid viability is allowing players to disperse attributes as they so desire, with the only penalty (ideally) being frequency of skill usage due to the size of the attribute pools. Though I'm not discrediting the builds in these videos as hybrids, I do recognize that your hybrid potential is being limited because you are forced to put most of your attribute points into one particular stat.

I would love to see ZOS recognize that a 22/21/21 divide really isn't viable for all content as a non-tank, and make adjustments accordingly.

Your definition of hybrid in ESO is just wrong. So you are saying Jack's builds aren't hybrid builds? Simple question, are Jack's builds hybrid builds? Yes/No? Just Yes or No. If you try to talk gibberish and avoid to give a Yes/No answer, I will take it as a Yes.

Like pure builds, hybrid builds also need to be optimized. There are bad pure builds, and there are bad hybrid builds, your hybrid build is a bad build overall, no on in the right mind would split points into a 22/21/21 especially when building a hybrid.

That's the point (see bold). One of my main arguments is that a 22/21/21 divide shouldn't impact power of skills, only provide a near equal divide of resource availability.

So you decided to talk gibberish instead of answering the question. As I have said earlier, it means you agree with me that Jack's builds are hybrid builds, so your definition of hybrid is wrong, which means your argument is invalid.

The 22/21/21 divide is as hybrid as it gets, and you're saying that definition of a hybrid is wrong? The way you are phrasing your argument doesn't work. You're demanding a yes or no answer for a question that doesn't have a yes or no answer. Think of hybrids on a spectrum - it's not a yes or no scenario. While certain builds have hybrid-like features, I find it hard to call a build that places 64 attribute points into a single attribute a "true" hybrid.

And you're missing the main point. The attribute scaling system makes your build significantly weaker than other builds if you want to, say... put a 22/21/21 divide into your attribute points. Why should a build that gets as hybrid-like as possible be punished?

Edit: Typo

It's your opinion that "22/21/21 divide is as hybrid as it gets", and yes your definition of a hybrid is completely wrong. It can't even be more wrong. Attribute isn't the only thing that increases your stat, gear is also a major factor. Jewelry's traits (arcane/robust) and bonuses from gear sets make up a huge deal of your stats, so it doesn't matter if you put 1 points, 2 points, 64 points or 298 points into magicka, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. Example, you can put all points into magicka and use robust jewelry to get both of your resource pools to a good level. Btw no DD puts points into health, it's stupid.

It is a simple yes and no answer. "Are Jack's builds (shown in his videos) hybrid builds?" Simple as that. It's like showing a basket of fruit and asking you "Are these apples?".

Don't you understand that you're ruining your own argument when you say, "Btw no DD puts points into health, it's stupid."

THAT'S THE WHOLE PROBLEM! (All caps were necessary because I don't know how else to say it).
Instead of resources simply being resources, they are affecting the power of skills. Remove the attribute scaling system and people can actually create hybrid builds without having to do anything but manage their resources.

And to answer your obsessive insistence about trying to define those two build videos - you won't like it but to me it's not a yes or no answer. The builds you are referring to are hybrid-ish because they suffer from the attribute scaling system getting in their way. They wouldn't do damage and heal nearly as well if the builds had the same amount of health/stamina/magicka - which is again, the main point.

QuebraRegra

hybrids only viaable in the era of softcaps. Not so with the power creep meta.

hmsdragonfly

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Here is a completed hybrid build wih a roughly equal damage distribution between physical and magical damage. The build works by stacking max magicka and max weapon damage.

This is a PvP build for he most part, but I have completed most of the Morrowind world bosses solo with this build. I think it would have potential in VMSA if I switched skills to a more damage over time spec. Otherwise it's sustain and survivability would be more then fine for VMSA.

Here's a build link wih gameplay if you guys are interested: https://youtu.be/tp-09x2A1-U

I also have a very detailed hybrid build gear guide, showing multiple different hybrid build gear setups for different types of hybrid specs.
https://youtu.be/qF3LaYfNTaU

One of the key talking points concerning hybrid viability is allowing players to disperse attributes as they so desire, with the only penalty (ideally) being frequency of skill usage due to the size of the attribute pools. Though I'm not discrediting the builds in these videos as hybrids, I do recognize that your hybrid potential is being limited because you are forced to put most of your attribute points into one particular stat.

I would love to see ZOS recognize that a 22/21/21 divide really isn't viable for all content as a non-tank, and make adjustments accordingly.

Your definition of hybrid in ESO is just wrong. So you are saying Jack's builds aren't hybrid builds? Simple question, are Jack's builds hybrid builds? Yes/No? Just Yes or No. If you try to talk gibberish and avoid to give a Yes/No answer, I will take it as a Yes.

Like pure builds, hybrid builds also need to be optimized. There are bad pure builds, and there are bad hybrid builds, your hybrid build is a bad build overall, no on in the right mind would split points into a 22/21/21 especially when building a hybrid.

That's the point (see bold). One of my main arguments is that a 22/21/21 divide shouldn't impact power of skills, only provide a near equal divide of resource availability.

So you decided to talk gibberish instead of answering the question. As I have said earlier, it means you agree with me that Jack's builds are hybrid builds, so your definition of hybrid is wrong, which means your argument is invalid.

The 22/21/21 divide is as hybrid as it gets, and you're saying that definition of a hybrid is wrong? The way you are phrasing your argument doesn't work. You're demanding a yes or no answer for a question that doesn't have a yes or no answer. Think of hybrids on a spectrum - it's not a yes or no scenario. While certain builds have hybrid-like features, I find it hard to call a build that places 64 attribute points into a single attribute a "true" hybrid.

And you're missing the main point. The attribute scaling system makes your build significantly weaker than other builds if you want to, say... put a 22/21/21 divide into your attribute points. Why should a build that gets as hybrid-like as possible be punished?

Edit: Typo

It's your opinion that "22/21/21 divide is as hybrid as it gets", and yes your definition of a hybrid is completely wrong. It can't even be more wrong. Attribute isn't the only thing that increases your stat, gear is also a major factor. Jewelry's traits (arcane/robust) and bonuses from gear sets make up a huge deal of your stats, so it doesn't matter if you put 1 points, 2 points, 64 points or 298 points into magicka, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. Example, you can put all points into magicka and use robust jewelry to get both of your resource pools to a good level. Btw no DD puts points into health, it's stupid.

It is a simple yes and no answer. "Are Jack's builds (shown in his videos) hybrid builds?" Simple as that. It's like showing a basket of fruit and asking you "Are these apples?".

Don't you understand that you're ruining your own argument when you say, "Btw no DD puts points into health, it's stupid."

THAT'S THE WHOLE PROBLEM! (All caps were necessary because I don't know how else to say it).
Instead of resources simply being resources, they are affecting the power of skills. Remove the attribute scaling system and people can actually create hybrid builds without having to do anything but manage their resources.

And to answer your obsessive insistence about trying to define those two build videos - you won't like it but to me it's not a yes or no answer. The builds you are referring to are hybrid-ish because they suffer from the attribute scaling system getting in their way. They wouldn't do damage and heal nearly as well if the builds had the same amount of health/stamina/magicka - which is again, the main point.

This is pointless. Don't you understand that your definition of a hybrid is just completely wrong. I don't care what is a hybrid to you, because again, it's your opinion and I don't care about your opinion, sorry. You totally forget that attribute isn't the only thing that increases your stat, gear is also a major factor. Jewelry's traits (arcane/robust) and bonuses from gear sets make up a huge deal of your stats, so it doesn't matter if you put 1 points, 2 points, 64 points or 298 points into magicka, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. Example, you can put all points into magicka and use robust jewelry to get both of your resource pools to a good level.

People can already create hybrid builds, those builds don't fit your definition of hybrid builds? Because your definition is wrong. In this game, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. It's not the way you think it should be? It's like ... your opinion, bro. I like the way that Hybrid builds are something niche and it is an achievement when you can put together a good hybrid build.

There's nothing wrong with saying "Btw no DD puts points into health, it's stupid.", because in fact it's mathematically stupid. I have been doing maths since I was 6 years old, so I am not splitting points into 22/21/21 when building a hybrid, because for a hybrid build, putting points like that is mathematically stupid. It's not "as hybrid as it gets", it's mathematically stupid.

GrumpyDuckling

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Here is a completed hybrid build wih a roughly equal damage distribution between physical and magical damage. The build works by stacking max magicka and max weapon damage.

This is a PvP build for he most part, but I have completed most of the Morrowind world bosses solo with this build. I think it would have potential in VMSA if I switched skills to a more damage over time spec. Otherwise it's sustain and survivability would be more then fine for VMSA.

Here's a build link wih gameplay if you guys are interested: https://youtu.be/tp-09x2A1-U

I also have a very detailed hybrid build gear guide, showing multiple different hybrid build gear setups for different types of hybrid specs.
https://youtu.be/qF3LaYfNTaU

One of the key talking points concerning hybrid viability is allowing players to disperse attributes as they so desire, with the only penalty (ideally) being frequency of skill usage due to the size of the attribute pools. Though I'm not discrediting the builds in these videos as hybrids, I do recognize that your hybrid potential is being limited because you are forced to put most of your attribute points into one particular stat.

I would love to see ZOS recognize that a 22/21/21 divide really isn't viable for all content as a non-tank, and make adjustments accordingly.

Your definition of hybrid in ESO is just wrong. So you are saying Jack's builds aren't hybrid builds? Simple question, are Jack's builds hybrid builds? Yes/No? Just Yes or No. If you try to talk gibberish and avoid to give a Yes/No answer, I will take it as a Yes.

Like pure builds, hybrid builds also need to be optimized. There are bad pure builds, and there are bad hybrid builds, your hybrid build is a bad build overall, no on in the right mind would split points into a 22/21/21 especially when building a hybrid.

That's the point (see bold). One of my main arguments is that a 22/21/21 divide shouldn't impact power of skills, only provide a near equal divide of resource availability.

So you decided to talk gibberish instead of answering the question. As I have said earlier, it means you agree with me that Jack's builds are hybrid builds, so your definition of hybrid is wrong, which means your argument is invalid.

The 22/21/21 divide is as hybrid as it gets, and you're saying that definition of a hybrid is wrong? The way you are phrasing your argument doesn't work. You're demanding a yes or no answer for a question that doesn't have a yes or no answer. Think of hybrids on a spectrum - it's not a yes or no scenario. While certain builds have hybrid-like features, I find it hard to call a build that places 64 attribute points into a single attribute a "true" hybrid.

And you're missing the main point. The attribute scaling system makes your build significantly weaker than other builds if you want to, say... put a 22/21/21 divide into your attribute points. Why should a build that gets as hybrid-like as possible be punished?

Edit: Typo

It's your opinion that "22/21/21 divide is as hybrid as it gets", and yes your definition of a hybrid is completely wrong. It can't even be more wrong. Attribute isn't the only thing that increases your stat, gear is also a major factor. Jewelry's traits (arcane/robust) and bonuses from gear sets make up a huge deal of your stats, so it doesn't matter if you put 1 points, 2 points, 64 points or 298 points into magicka, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. Example, you can put all points into magicka and use robust jewelry to get both of your resource pools to a good level. Btw no DD puts points into health, it's stupid.

It is a simple yes and no answer. "Are Jack's builds (shown in his videos) hybrid builds?" Simple as that. It's like showing a basket of fruit and asking you "Are these apples?".

Don't you understand that you're ruining your own argument when you say, "Btw no DD puts points into health, it's stupid."

THAT'S THE WHOLE PROBLEM! (All caps were necessary because I don't know how else to say it).
Instead of resources simply being resources, they are affecting the power of skills. Remove the attribute scaling system and people can actually create hybrid builds without having to do anything but manage their resources.

And to answer your obsessive insistence about trying to define those two build videos - you won't like it but to me it's not a yes or no answer. The builds you are referring to are hybrid-ish because they suffer from the attribute scaling system getting in their way. They wouldn't do damage and heal nearly as well if the builds had the same amount of health/stamina/magicka - which is again, the main point.

This is pointless. Don't you understand that your definition of a hybrid is just completely wrong. I don't care what is a hybrid to you, because again, it's your opinion and I don't care about your opinion, sorry. You totally forget that attribute isn't the only thing that increases your stat, gear is also a major factor. Jewelry's traits (arcane/robust) and bonuses from gear sets make up a huge deal of your stats, so it doesn't matter if you put 1 points, 2 points, 64 points or 298 points into magicka, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. Example, you can put all points into magicka and use robust jewelry to get both of your resource pools to a good level.

People can already create hybrid builds, those builds don't fit your definition of hybrid builds? Because your definition is wrong. In this game, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. It's not the way you think it should be? It's like ... your opinion, bro. I like the way that Hybrid builds are something niche and it is an achievement when you can put together a good hybrid build.

There's nothing wrong with saying "Btw no DD puts points into health, it's stupid.", because in fact it's mathematically stupid. I have been doing maths since I was 6 years old, so I am not splitting points into 22/21/21 when building a hybrid, because for a hybrid build, putting points like that is mathematically stupid. It's not "as hybrid as it gets", it's mathematically stupid.

You aren't acknowledging that the problem is attribute scaling. It's not a reg flag to you that something is wrong with the system when it's "mathematically stupid" to put points into health?

I mean, are you even reading your own words? "...as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build."

Lol you're completely cutting out 1/3 of the attributes (health) in your definition of hybrid. Yup, I'm the wrong one, haha.

hmsdragonfly

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Here is a completed hybrid build wih a roughly equal damage distribution between physical and magical damage. The build works by stacking max magicka and max weapon damage.

This is a PvP build for he most part, but I have completed most of the Morrowind world bosses solo with this build. I think it would have potential in VMSA if I switched skills to a more damage over time spec. Otherwise it's sustain and survivability would be more then fine for VMSA.

Here's a build link wih gameplay if you guys are interested: https://youtu.be/tp-09x2A1-U

I also have a very detailed hybrid build gear guide, showing multiple different hybrid build gear setups for different types of hybrid specs.
https://youtu.be/qF3LaYfNTaU

One of the key talking points concerning hybrid viability is allowing players to disperse attributes as they so desire, with the only penalty (ideally) being frequency of skill usage due to the size of the attribute pools. Though I'm not discrediting the builds in these videos as hybrids, I do recognize that your hybrid potential is being limited because you are forced to put most of your attribute points into one particular stat.

I would love to see ZOS recognize that a 22/21/21 divide really isn't viable for all content as a non-tank, and make adjustments accordingly.

Your definition of hybrid in ESO is just wrong. So you are saying Jack's builds aren't hybrid builds? Simple question, are Jack's builds hybrid builds? Yes/No? Just Yes or No. If you try to talk gibberish and avoid to give a Yes/No answer, I will take it as a Yes.

Like pure builds, hybrid builds also need to be optimized. There are bad pure builds, and there are bad hybrid builds, your hybrid build is a bad build overall, no on in the right mind would split points into a 22/21/21 especially when building a hybrid.

That's the point (see bold). One of my main arguments is that a 22/21/21 divide shouldn't impact power of skills, only provide a near equal divide of resource availability.

So you decided to talk gibberish instead of answering the question. As I have said earlier, it means you agree with me that Jack's builds are hybrid builds, so your definition of hybrid is wrong, which means your argument is invalid.

The 22/21/21 divide is as hybrid as it gets, and you're saying that definition of a hybrid is wrong? The way you are phrasing your argument doesn't work. You're demanding a yes or no answer for a question that doesn't have a yes or no answer. Think of hybrids on a spectrum - it's not a yes or no scenario. While certain builds have hybrid-like features, I find it hard to call a build that places 64 attribute points into a single attribute a "true" hybrid.

And you're missing the main point. The attribute scaling system makes your build significantly weaker than other builds if you want to, say... put a 22/21/21 divide into your attribute points. Why should a build that gets as hybrid-like as possible be punished?

Edit: Typo

It's your opinion that "22/21/21 divide is as hybrid as it gets", and yes your definition of a hybrid is completely wrong. It can't even be more wrong. Attribute isn't the only thing that increases your stat, gear is also a major factor. Jewelry's traits (arcane/robust) and bonuses from gear sets make up a huge deal of your stats, so it doesn't matter if you put 1 points, 2 points, 64 points or 298 points into magicka, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. Example, you can put all points into magicka and use robust jewelry to get both of your resource pools to a good level. Btw no DD puts points into health, it's stupid.

It is a simple yes and no answer. "Are Jack's builds (shown in his videos) hybrid builds?" Simple as that. It's like showing a basket of fruit and asking you "Are these apples?".

Don't you understand that you're ruining your own argument when you say, "Btw no DD puts points into health, it's stupid."

THAT'S THE WHOLE PROBLEM! (All caps were necessary because I don't know how else to say it).
Instead of resources simply being resources, they are affecting the power of skills. Remove the attribute scaling system and people can actually create hybrid builds without having to do anything but manage their resources.

And to answer your obsessive insistence about trying to define those two build videos - you won't like it but to me it's not a yes or no answer. The builds you are referring to are hybrid-ish because they suffer from the attribute scaling system getting in their way. They wouldn't do damage and heal nearly as well if the builds had the same amount of health/stamina/magicka - which is again, the main point.

This is pointless. Don't you understand that your definition of a hybrid is just completely wrong. I don't care what is a hybrid to you, because again, it's your opinion and I don't care about your opinion, sorry. You totally forget that attribute isn't the only thing that increases your stat, gear is also a major factor. Jewelry's traits (arcane/robust) and bonuses from gear sets make up a huge deal of your stats, so it doesn't matter if you put 1 points, 2 points, 64 points or 298 points into magicka, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. Example, you can put all points into magicka and use robust jewelry to get both of your resource pools to a good level.

People can already create hybrid builds, those builds don't fit your definition of hybrid builds? Because your definition is wrong. In this game, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. It's not the way you think it should be? It's like ... your opinion, bro. I like the way that Hybrid builds are something niche and it is an achievement when you can put together a good hybrid build.

There's nothing wrong with saying "Btw no DD puts points into health, it's stupid.", because in fact it's mathematically stupid. I have been doing maths since I was 6 years old, so I am not splitting points into 22/21/21 when building a hybrid, because for a hybrid build, putting points like that is mathematically stupid. It's not "as hybrid as it gets", it's mathematically stupid.

You aren't acknowledging that the problem is attribute scaling. It's not a reg flag to you that something is wrong with the system when it's "mathematically stupid" to put points into health?

I mean, are you even reading your own words? "...as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build."

Lol you're completely cutting out 1/3 of the attributes (health) in your definition of hybrid. Yup, I'm the wrong one, haha.

Attribute scaling is another subject. I am just pointing out that your definition of a hybrid build isn't correct. That's all. And I have said, in my opinion, I like the way that Hybrid builds are something niche and it is an achievement when you can put together a good hybrid build. But that's purely my opinion, you may or may not care about it, that's fine.

Back to the point, I don't see what's wrong with the system when you are a DD and it's "mathematically stupid" to put points into health, you are not a tank. It's fine, you can keep your definition of hybrid, but it isn't shared among the community. In this game, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. Of course keep your health at the point where you are comfortable with, it goes without saying, and please note attribute isn't the only way to increase your health pool either, you get most of your health from armour glyphs, gear set bonus and food/drink, and that's how everyone gets their health pool to a comfortable level.

GrumpyDuckling

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Here is a completed hybrid build wih a roughly equal damage distribution between physical and magical damage. The build works by stacking max magicka and max weapon damage.

This is a PvP build for he most part, but I have completed most of the Morrowind world bosses solo with this build. I think it would have potential in VMSA if I switched skills to a more damage over time spec. Otherwise it's sustain and survivability would be more then fine for VMSA.

Here's a build link wih gameplay if you guys are interested: https://youtu.be/tp-09x2A1-U

I also have a very detailed hybrid build gear guide, showing multiple different hybrid build gear setups for different types of hybrid specs.
https://youtu.be/qF3LaYfNTaU

One of the key talking points concerning hybrid viability is allowing players to disperse attributes as they so desire, with the only penalty (ideally) being frequency of skill usage due to the size of the attribute pools. Though I'm not discrediting the builds in these videos as hybrids, I do recognize that your hybrid potential is being limited because you are forced to put most of your attribute points into one particular stat.

I would love to see ZOS recognize that a 22/21/21 divide really isn't viable for all content as a non-tank, and make adjustments accordingly.

Your definition of hybrid in ESO is just wrong. So you are saying Jack's builds aren't hybrid builds? Simple question, are Jack's builds hybrid builds? Yes/No? Just Yes or No. If you try to talk gibberish and avoid to give a Yes/No answer, I will take it as a Yes.

Like pure builds, hybrid builds also need to be optimized. There are bad pure builds, and there are bad hybrid builds, your hybrid build is a bad build overall, no on in the right mind would split points into a 22/21/21 especially when building a hybrid.

That's the point (see bold). One of my main arguments is that a 22/21/21 divide shouldn't impact power of skills, only provide a near equal divide of resource availability.

So you decided to talk gibberish instead of answering the question. As I have said earlier, it means you agree with me that Jack's builds are hybrid builds, so your definition of hybrid is wrong, which means your argument is invalid.

The 22/21/21 divide is as hybrid as it gets, and you're saying that definition of a hybrid is wrong? The way you are phrasing your argument doesn't work. You're demanding a yes or no answer for a question that doesn't have a yes or no answer. Think of hybrids on a spectrum - it's not a yes or no scenario. While certain builds have hybrid-like features, I find it hard to call a build that places 64 attribute points into a single attribute a "true" hybrid.

And you're missing the main point. The attribute scaling system makes your build significantly weaker than other builds if you want to, say... put a 22/21/21 divide into your attribute points. Why should a build that gets as hybrid-like as possible be punished?

Edit: Typo

It's your opinion that "22/21/21 divide is as hybrid as it gets", and yes your definition of a hybrid is completely wrong. It can't even be more wrong. Attribute isn't the only thing that increases your stat, gear is also a major factor. Jewelry's traits (arcane/robust) and bonuses from gear sets make up a huge deal of your stats, so it doesn't matter if you put 1 points, 2 points, 64 points or 298 points into magicka, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. Example, you can put all points into magicka and use robust jewelry to get both of your resource pools to a good level. Btw no DD puts points into health, it's stupid.

It is a simple yes and no answer. "Are Jack's builds (shown in his videos) hybrid builds?" Simple as that. It's like showing a basket of fruit and asking you "Are these apples?".

Don't you understand that you're ruining your own argument when you say, "Btw no DD puts points into health, it's stupid."

THAT'S THE WHOLE PROBLEM! (All caps were necessary because I don't know how else to say it).
Instead of resources simply being resources, they are affecting the power of skills. Remove the attribute scaling system and people can actually create hybrid builds without having to do anything but manage their resources.

And to answer your obsessive insistence about trying to define those two build videos - you won't like it but to me it's not a yes or no answer. The builds you are referring to are hybrid-ish because they suffer from the attribute scaling system getting in their way. They wouldn't do damage and heal nearly as well if the builds had the same amount of health/stamina/magicka - which is again, the main point.

This is pointless. Don't you understand that your definition of a hybrid is just completely wrong. I don't care what is a hybrid to you, because again, it's your opinion and I don't care about your opinion, sorry. You totally forget that attribute isn't the only thing that increases your stat, gear is also a major factor. Jewelry's traits (arcane/robust) and bonuses from gear sets make up a huge deal of your stats, so it doesn't matter if you put 1 points, 2 points, 64 points or 298 points into magicka, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. Example, you can put all points into magicka and use robust jewelry to get both of your resource pools to a good level.

People can already create hybrid builds, those builds don't fit your definition of hybrid builds? Because your definition is wrong. In this game, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. It's not the way you think it should be? It's like ... your opinion, bro. I like the way that Hybrid builds are something niche and it is an achievement when you can put together a good hybrid build.

There's nothing wrong with saying "Btw no DD puts points into health, it's stupid.", because in fact it's mathematically stupid. I have been doing maths since I was 6 years old, so I am not splitting points into 22/21/21 when building a hybrid, because for a hybrid build, putting points like that is mathematically stupid. It's not "as hybrid as it gets", it's mathematically stupid.

You aren't acknowledging that the problem is attribute scaling. It's not a reg flag to you that something is wrong with the system when it's "mathematically stupid" to put points into health?

I mean, are you even reading your own words? "...as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build."

Lol you're completely cutting out 1/3 of the attributes (health) in your definition of hybrid. Yup, I'm the wrong one, haha.

Attribute scaling is another subject. I am just pointing out that your definition of a hybrid build isn't correct. That's all. And I have said, in my opinion, I like the way that Hybrid builds are something niche and it is an achievement when you can put together a good hybrid build. But that's purely my opinion, you may or may not care about it, that's fine.

Back to the point, I don't see what's wrong with the system when you are a DD and it's "mathematically stupid" to put points into health, you are not a tank. It's fine, you can keep your definition of hybrid, but it isn't shared among the community. In this game, as long as you have a large pool of magicka and also a large pool of stamina, and you utilize both of these pools to deal damage or heal, it's a hybrid build. Of course keep your health at the point where you are comfortable with, it goes without saying, and please note attribute isn't the only way to increase your health pool either, you get most of your health from armour glyphs, gear set bonus and food/drink, and that's how everyone gets their health pool to a comfortable level.

It is and has always been about attribute scaling - read the first post of the thread! I'm going to help you out here - really simplify it for you. Take all attributes, armor, glyphs, etc. and split everything as evenly as possible between health, magicka, and stamina. Now we have three equal resource pools. This is as hybrid as it gets.

You said it yourself, this is a "mathematically stupid" decision because I put points into health.

That's where the problem lies. Tell me, yes or no, (if you say anything else then I will automatically assume "yes") do you think it is a good system when the player's ability to do damage and heal is punished for putting points into health?
(Like how I used your own argument method here?)

JackDaniell

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Here is a completed hybrid build wih a roughly equal damage distribution between physical and magical damage. The build works by stacking max magicka and max weapon damage.

This is a PvP build for he most part, but I have completed most of the Morrowind world bosses solo with this build. I think it would have potential in VMSA if I switched skills to a more damage over time spec. Otherwise it's sustain and survivability would be more then fine for VMSA.

Here's a build link wih gameplay if you guys are interested: https://youtu.be/tp-09x2A1-U

I also have a very detailed hybrid build gear guide, showing multiple different hybrid build gear setups for different types of hybrid specs.
https://youtu.be/qF3LaYfNTaU

One of the key talking points concerning hybrid viability is allowing players to disperse attributes as they so desire, with the only penalty (ideally) being frequency of skill usage due to the size of the attribute pools. Though I'm not discrediting the builds in these videos as hybrids, I do recognize that your hybrid potential is being limited because you are forced to put most of your attribute points into one particular stat.

I would love to see ZOS recognize that a 22/21/21 divide really isn't viable for all content as a non-tank, and make adjustments accordingly.

Your definition of hybrid in ESO is just wrong. So you are saying Jack's builds aren't hybrid builds? Simple question, are Jack's builds hybrid builds? Yes/No? Just Yes or No. If you try to talk gibberish and avoid to give a Yes/No answer, I will take it as a Yes.

Like pure builds, hybrid builds also need to be optimized. There are bad pure builds, and there are bad hybrid builds, your hybrid build is a bad build overall, no on in the right mind would split points into a 22/21/21 especially when building a hybrid.

That's the point (see bold). One of my main arguments is that a 22/21/21 divide shouldn't impact power of skills, only provide a near equal divide of resource availability.

So you decided to talk gibberish instead of answering the question. As I have said earlier, it means you agree with me that Jack's builds are hybrid builds, so your definition of hybrid is wrong, which means your argument is invalid.

The 22/21/21 divide is as hybrid as it gets, and you're saying that definition of a hybrid is wrong? The way you are phrasing your argument doesn't work. You're demanding a yes or no answer for a question that doesn't have a yes or no answer. Think of hybrids on a spectrum - it's not a yes or no scenario. While certain builds have hybrid-like features, I find it hard to call a build that places 64 attribute points into a single attribute a "true" hybrid.

And you're missing the main point. The attribute scaling system makes your build significantly weaker than other builds if you want to, say... put a 22/21/21 divide into your attribute points. Why should a build that gets as hybrid-like as possible be punished?

Edit: Typo

You seem to not have seen the video at all, yes I have 64 in magicka, I also focus on weapon damage. I did his because magicka scales the best for Magick damage (vs spell dmg) and weapon damage scales the best for physical damage (vs max stam)

This results in a hybrid build that takes full potential of the games building intricacies to provide the best outgoing damage for the two pools.

If you wanted to do your atribute split, it would be better for a pelinals build that has even weapon and spell damage. As for placing points into HP on a hybrid build, well if you were looking to have damage on it that's one of the best ways to shoot yourself in the foot right off the bat. Hybrids also use tri stat glyphs, meaning they already natural have higher hp then most pure specs.

The hardest part about a hybrid is building it right, your attribute points are only a small of of the greater whole.

GrumpyDuckling

JackDaniell wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Here is a completed hybrid build wih a roughly equal damage distribution between physical and magical damage. The build works by stacking max magicka and max weapon damage.

This is a PvP build for he most part, but I have completed most of the Morrowind world bosses solo with this build. I think it would have potential in VMSA if I switched skills to a more damage over time spec. Otherwise it's sustain and survivability would be more then fine for VMSA.

Here's a build link wih gameplay if you guys are interested: https://youtu.be/tp-09x2A1-U

I also have a very detailed hybrid build gear guide, showing multiple different hybrid build gear setups for different types of hybrid specs.
https://youtu.be/qF3LaYfNTaU

One of the key talking points concerning hybrid viability is allowing players to disperse attributes as they so desire, with the only penalty (ideally) being frequency of skill usage due to the size of the attribute pools. Though I'm not discrediting the builds in these videos as hybrids, I do recognize that your hybrid potential is being limited because you are forced to put most of your attribute points into one particular stat.

I would love to see ZOS recognize that a 22/21/21 divide really isn't viable for all content as a non-tank, and make adjustments accordingly.

Your definition of hybrid in ESO is just wrong. So you are saying Jack's builds aren't hybrid builds? Simple question, are Jack's builds hybrid builds? Yes/No? Just Yes or No. If you try to talk gibberish and avoid to give a Yes/No answer, I will take it as a Yes.

Like pure builds, hybrid builds also need to be optimized. There are bad pure builds, and there are bad hybrid builds, your hybrid build is a bad build overall, no on in the right mind would split points into a 22/21/21 especially when building a hybrid.

That's the point (see bold). One of my main arguments is that a 22/21/21 divide shouldn't impact power of skills, only provide a near equal divide of resource availability.

So you decided to talk gibberish instead of answering the question. As I have said earlier, it means you agree with me that Jack's builds are hybrid builds, so your definition of hybrid is wrong, which means your argument is invalid.

The 22/21/21 divide is as hybrid as it gets, and you're saying that definition of a hybrid is wrong? The way you are phrasing your argument doesn't work. You're demanding a yes or no answer for a question that doesn't have a yes or no answer. Think of hybrids on a spectrum - it's not a yes or no scenario. While certain builds have hybrid-like features, I find it hard to call a build that places 64 attribute points into a single attribute a "true" hybrid.

And you're missing the main point. The attribute scaling system makes your build significantly weaker than other builds if you want to, say... put a 22/21/21 divide into your attribute points. Why should a build that gets as hybrid-like as possible be punished?

Edit: Typo

You seem to not have seen the video at all, yes I have 64 in magicka, I also focus on weapon damage. I did his because magicka scales the best for Magick damage (vs spell dmg) and weapon damage scales the best for physical damage (vs max stam)

This results in a hybrid build that takes full potential of the games building intricacies to provide the best outgoing damage for the two pools.

If you wanted to do your atribute split, it would be better for a pelinals build that has even weapon and spell damage. As for placing points into HP on a hybrid build, well if you were looking to have damage on it that's one of the best ways to shoot yourself in the foot right off the bat. Hybrids also use tri stat glyphs, meaning they already natural have higher hp then most pure specs.

The hardest part about a hybrid is building it right.

Again, that's the point. I argue that players shouldn't be penalized for putting points into health - hence the argument in favor of removing attribute scaling and the weapon and spell damage divide.

usmcjdking

Please do not confuse the words 'viable' and 'competetive'. There are a ton of viable hybrid builds capable of pulling the numbers required to complete everything sans HM VMOL/HM VAA.

That does not necessarily mean they are competetive with other DPS or that you will be able to reserve your slot on a raid team with your hybrid.

GrumpyDuckling

usmcjdking wrote: »

Please do not confuse the words 'viable' and 'competetive'. There are a ton of viable hybrid builds capable of pulling the numbers required to complete everything sans HM VMOL/HM VAA.

That does not necessarily mean they are competetive with other DPS or that you will be able to reserve your slot on a raid team with your hybrid.

vi·a·ble
ˈvīəb(ə)l/Submit
adjective
capable of working successfully; feasible.
"the proposed investment was economically viable"
synonyms: feasible, workable, practicable, practical, usable, possible, realistic, achievable, attainable, realizable; informaldoable
"it doesn't sound like a viable solution"
BOTANY
(of a seed or spore) able to germinate.
BIOLOGY
(of a plant, animal, or cell) capable of surviving or living successfully, especially under particular environmental conditions.

"sans HM VMOL/HM VAA" would mean that hybrids aren't viable then, right? They are incapable of working successfully in that content.

Royaji

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

That's where the problem lies. Tell me, yes or no, (if you say anything else then I will automatically assume "yes") do you think it is a good system when the player's ability to do damage and heal is punished for putting points into health?
(Like how I used your own argument method here?)

Yes.

Yes, it is a good system.

If you put more points in health you will have higher survivability. This survivability comes with a cost of reduced damage. Same as putting everything into stamina/magicka gives you more damage but for a cost of lower survivability.

For the same reason hybrids should not have the same damage of a pure build. Pure build comes with a cost of not being able run/roll dodge or use your utility skills as often as a hybrid. If I put everything into magicka my magicka skills should hit harder than your skills on a hybrid with 21/22/21. Because your stamina skills hit harder than my stamina skills.

Your build decisons come with a cost. You can't have health, high damage and ability to use both resources for offence and defence at the same time.

I_killed_Vivec

I have a looser definition of hybrids. It's not that there's an even split between all three pools, just between magica and stamina. But more importantly there should be an equal split in the skills that you use.

That's closest to the "play how you want" ethos.

In the early days (when we still had soft caps) I had a DK in heavy armour dual wielding axes (because.) while pulling mobs with chains, locking them in place with talons and hitting them with whip and flurry and steel tornado

My second weapon was a resto staff, because I needed a ranged attack and came across a good one. Heavy attacks gave me the range I needed and charged up my magica pool so I could use whips and chains.

That combo got me through Cadwell's silver and gold before soft caps went and that character put on leather and became a stam dual-wielder crit build.

I don't think I could go back to dual wield/resto - even though that version was more of a DK (as in using DK skills) than its current incarnation.

GrumpyDuckling

Royaji wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

That's where the problem lies. Tell me, yes or no, (if you say anything else then I will automatically assume "yes") do you think it is a good system when the player's ability to do damage and heal is punished for putting points into health?
(Like how I used your own argument method here?)

Yes.

Yes, it is a good system.

If you put more points in health you will have higher survivability. This survivability comes with a cost of reduced damage. Same as putting everything into stamina/magicka gives you more damage but for a cost of lower survivability.

For the same reason hybrids should not have the same damage of a pure build. Pure build comes with a cost of not being able run/roll dodge or use your utility skills as often as a hybrid. If I put everything into magicka my magicka skills should hit harder than your skills on a hybrid with 21/22/21. Because your stamina skills hit harder than my stamina skills.

Your build decisons come with a cost. You can't have health, high damage and ability to use both resources for offence and defence at the same time.

Are you really saying that the trade off in putting extra points into health to make a 22/21/21 divide is a mathematically close trade off - in this current system - to putting all points into one attribute?

No way. All of the skills in a 64 attribute build are much stronger. Imagine a light armor Sorcerer with a 22/21/21 trying to shield and do damage against a light armor Sorcerer with 64.

Royaji

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Please do not confuse the words 'viable' and 'competetive'. There are a ton of viable hybrid builds capable of pulling the numbers required to complete everything sans HM VMOL/HM VAA.

That does not necessarily mean they are competetive with other DPS or that you will be able to reserve your slot on a raid team with your hybrid.

vi·a·ble
ˈvīəb(ə)l/Submit
adjective
capable of working successfully; feasible.
"the proposed investment was economically viable"
synonyms: feasible, workable, practicable, practical, usable, possible, realistic, achievable, attainable, realizable; informaldoable
"it doesn't sound like a viable solution"
BOTANY
(of a seed or spore) able to germinate.
BIOLOGY
(of a plant, animal, or cell) capable of surviving or living successfully, especially under particular environmental conditions.

"sans HM VMOL/HM VAA" would mean that hybrids aren't viable then, right? They are incapable of working successfully in that content.

You can complete them on a hybrid. You are not going to be able to beat high scores though. Because specialization allows to achieve much better results than being a jack of all trades. In a trial group tank gives survivabilty, healers give sustain and heals and DDs give damage.

That's the reason why DDs in trials do not put points in health. They rely on their healer and tank to make sure they stay alive.

GrumpyDuckling

Royaji wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Please do not confuse the words 'viable' and 'competetive'. There are a ton of viable hybrid builds capable of pulling the numbers required to complete everything sans HM VMOL/HM VAA.

That does not necessarily mean they are competetive with other DPS or that you will be able to reserve your slot on a raid team with your hybrid.

vi·a·ble
ˈvīəb(ə)l/Submit
adjective
capable of working successfully; feasible.
"the proposed investment was economically viable"
synonyms: feasible, workable, practicable, practical, usable, possible, realistic, achievable, attainable, realizable; informaldoable
"it doesn't sound like a viable solution"
BOTANY
(of a seed or spore) able to germinate.
BIOLOGY
(of a plant, animal, or cell) capable of surviving or living successfully, especially under particular environmental conditions.

"sans HM VMOL/HM VAA" would mean that hybrids aren't viable then, right? They are incapable of working successfully in that content.

You can complete them on a hybrid. You are not going to be able to beat high scores though. Because specialization allows to achieve much better results than being a jack of all trades. In a trial group tank gives survivabilty, healers give sustain and heals and DDs give damage.

That's the reason why DDs in trials do not put points in health. They rely on their healer and tank to make sure they stay alive.

Right, because non-hybrid builds are keeping them alive. If hybrids are viable, then shouldn't we be able to do all vet trials with a full team of hybrids?