Sorc dominating BGs
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Ishammael✭✭✭✭✭
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Well at 20% they should die. That's average 4-5k hp of your max and any execute like beam, killers blade, executioner have scaling damage to targets below % hp meaning they would all kill you almost instantly as well. Executioner and killers blade more so than beam because you can ani cancel it.
The strength of fury is that you can pre-cast it.
For all the other examples you gave, you at least have to use a skill in the moment your opponent is near death. This gives the opponent an opportunity for counterplay.
EDIT: I also completely disagree with the premise that "at 20% they should die". Why not 30%? 50%?
PS. I'm not arguing about Sorcs in BGs, just this particular point.Edited by Ishammael on June 9, 2017 5:07PM1 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭grim_tactics wrote: »
With 1 shield I get, what, 7k in NonCP- and with two stacked it's a total of maybe 11k. So I get (for 5 seconds max) the same health as a DK. That's it. NB burst is much higher because the passives the burst has as far as debuffing you in the process to follow up attacks which hit harder. My MagSorc does not do 18k in 1 second - I would love to know how your MagSorc can do 18k in 1 second.
With my NB - I can kill someone in BGs before the animation of them being stunned even finishes.
1v1... No you can't, unless they have like 16k health. Everyone is running 21k +...0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭grim_tactics wrote: »
With 1 shield I get, what, 7k in NonCP- and with two stacked it's a total of maybe 11k. So I get (for 5 seconds max) the same health as a DK. That's it. NB burst is much higher because the passives the burst has as far as debuffing you in the process to follow up attacks which hit harder. My MagSorc does not do 18k in 1 second - I would love to know how your MagSorc can do 18k in 1 second.
With my NB - I can kill someone in BGs before the animation of them being stunned even finishes.
What's your max mag? I'm fairly sure my ward is larger than 7k, I have 37k magicka in no CP. Um I can't check ATM, but 7k from Curse, 8k from frag, 7k from wrath 22k in one sec?3 -
Benn G x✭✭✭
What do you suggest they change it to? Remove their ability to execute completely or change he % it procs at
I don't know what would be best to change, but currently it over performs and has for a while to be honest. Maybe make it so ONLY if the sorc who cast it hits you below 20% it goes off, not a random hit from Joe the plumber who just sniped me from over half health and proc'd an execute..
That's why it's called an execute.....
You're not understanding my point, what makes it over powered is that I can be hit with a fury at say 60% health, LoS or run or whatever but if ANYONE hits me with something that drops me to 20% I'm insta dead, essientially meaning you can be executed from very high health and there is no counter.
This isn't a bias opinion, like I said I've mained a DW magsorc for a long time, and I recall even speaking to you about it on my other account 'Psychotic13' I've just switched back to my magblade and you realise how much free AP fury gives you.
go to hui with ur suggestion
and everyone who offer the such things can go the same way
Grown ups talking here kid4 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
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Endless Fury was the top performing execute months before Morrowind. Did people dispute that?
Whenever I brought up Mage's Fury as an excellent execute, or that I personally thought and argued was better than Radiant Destruction, in the many many "nerf RD" threads, I was derided and accused of being a templar apologist.
In various sorcerer threads, I have always maintained that a sorcerer ought to have endless fury front barred in all content of the game because the skill was strong and versatile. Numerous PvE and PvP players disagreed.
Ever since ZoS made is so this skill was not reflectable, I have always felt it was hands down the most versatile and easiest to use execute. Hardly anyone took my opinion seriously, let alone agreed with me.
Fast forward to now when even PuGs know how not to die to Radiant Destruction and a dumb BG scoring system, people are all of a sudden appreciating what I have said for years even though nothing has changed about Mage's Fury.
Edited by Joy_Division on June 9, 2017 7:50PM7 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
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I don't know what would be best to change, but currently it over performs and has for a while to be honest. Maybe make it so ONLY if the sorc who cast it hits you below 20% it goes off, not a random hit from Joe the plumber who just sniped me from over half health and proc'd an execute..
You're not understanding my point, what makes it over powered is that I can be hit with a fury at say 60% health, LoS or run or whatever but if ANYONE hits me with something that drops me to 20% I'm insta dead, essientially meaning you can be executed from very high health and there is no counter.
This isn't a bias opinion, like I said I've mained a DW magsorc for a long time, and I recall even speaking to you about it on my other account 'Psychotic13' I've just switched back to my magblade and you realise how much free AP fury gives you.
Grown ups talking here kid
It's true, I as a sorc can sit anywhere, hit a dk at 100% health with wrath, a Stam NB procs that DK dealing 25k in one sec, our 28k DK dies and I get the awesome points (our Stam NB get very little points) and all I did was hide and hit wrath.
It's not Sorcs fault, what actually gets me is the game says "x player stole x kill" and yet doesn't score accordingly5 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Whenever I brought up Mage's Fury as an excellent execute, on that I personally thought and argued was better than Radiant Destruction, in the many many "nerf RD" threads, I was derided and accused of being a templar apologist.
In various sorcerer threads, I have always maintained that a sorcerer ought to have endless fury front barred in all content of the game because the skill was strong and versatile. Numerous PvE and PvP players disagreed.
Ever since ZoS made is so this skill was not reflectable, I have always felt it was hands down the most versatile and easiest to use execute. Hardly anyone took my opinion seriously, let alone agreed with me.
Fast forward to now when even PuGs know how not to die to Radiant Destruction and a dumb BG scoring system, people are all of a sudden appreciating what I have said for years even though nothing has changed about Mage's Fury.
I think Endless Fury became the top execute when they made the explosion fire the instant you hit the skill, before your character even goes through the animations. If someone is less than 20% health, there's zero delay in the execute proc once you active the skill. No other execute does that.
The funny thing is, most top Templar builds have dropped RD entirely in BGs. So, as predicted, the RD nerf was probably a bit too much.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT4 -
OdinForge✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »
This is me doing nearly everything wrong on my first outing.
https://youtu.be/wtwSDDzKnHY
That was a pretty successful outing. Which was completely disheartening to me. Basically confirmed my worst nightmare. ProcBlade takes no skill what so ever. Just farm the gear, put it on, and let it kill for you. GGWP
That was an unsuccessful outing actually.The Age of Wrobel.4 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Think of it this way, when you're hit by fury over 20% you have four seconds to dodge roll, cloak, vigor, rally, BoL, or shield up.
If you're over 20% and stay there, fury only does 1000 or so elemental lightning damage after mitigation. It's about as bad as a light attack.0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Think of it this way, when you're hit by fury over 20% you have four seconds to dodge roll, cloak, vigor, rally, BoL, or shield up.
Its not four seconds tho. It is a permanent state, because the sorc will keep the fury on you indefinitely. Basically, when you have a sorc on you, it's the same as having 20% less max HP, because as soon as you hit 20%, you die.7 -
Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The class the developers main, and refused to balance to the other classes in nerfocalyps are OP in BGs? I'm SHOCKED. Guess what class they mained when IC was released?....TG?
Edited by Idinuse on June 18, 2017 1:05PMSed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?2 -
Emmagoldman✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's funny, I've been playing bg and I've seen maybe 4 mag sorcs. It's hands down a stam proc meta for bg.5 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
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I think Endless Fury became the top execute when they made the explosion fire the instant you hit the skill, before your character even goes through the animations. If someone is less than 20% health, there's zero delay in the execute proc once you active the skill. No other execute does that.
The funny thing is, most top Templar builds have dropped RD entirely in BGs. So, as predicted, the RD nerf was probably a bit too much.
Not true about the instant execute. I know for sure RD acts in the same manner. I think the magicka NB ranged one act in this manner (though I cant say for sure about the NB; it's been so long since I have used it).
What's I find the most amusing about RD is how all the people who insisted they knew how to balance the skill better than Zos have zero clue. They begged ZoS for a ranged nerf and how that was the crux of the matter; yet here we are, still has max range still scales at 50%, still undogable, still has all the aspects that people were insisted were OP and the skill is almost pointless Vs. competent BGs opponents.
This is just another nerf sorc thread made by people who havent seemed to comprehend the past two years have of collective nerfs have sucked much of the life out of this game.1 -
KingYogi415✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If only there was a counter to sorcs.
Like some sort of set that could break their shield.
O well guess not, back to crying about how OP sorcs are.Edited by KingYogi415 on June 17, 2017 1:44AM2 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Not true about the instant execute. I know for sure RD acts in the same manner. I think the magicka NB ranged one act in this manner (though I cant say for sure about the NB; it's been so long since I have used it).
What's I find the most amusing about RD is how all the people who insisted they knew how to balance the skill better than Zos have zero clue. They begged ZoS for a ranged nerf and how that was the crux of the matter; yet here we are, still has max range still scales at 50%, still undogable, still has all the aspects that people were insisted were OP and the skill is almost pointless Vs. competent BGs opponents.
This is just another nerf sorc thread made by people who havent seemed to comprehend the past two years have of collective nerfs have sucked much of the life out of this game.
I think both RD and Impale have some animation before the first tick of damage, whereas the Endless Proc ticks immediately before your character starts the animation.
But yeah, as a lot of players were saying at the time, the issue with RD was the range.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT1 -
Hurika✭✭✭✭Why not make it similar to other executes then? It's a melee range skill you cast and does damage. Does more based on target hp%.
Imagine if mark target would insta kill if you were below 20% life.
Also (insert dead horse here) - a character with a shield up has their crit chance set to 0. Shield keeps crits from getting in, should keep them from getting out.0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭But you don't need to change anything about Sorcs to fix the BG problem
The game already has a way to recognize "stolen" kills, now they just need a way to implement a scoring system based on that. Like if all you did was execute the opponent all you get is 1 assist medal vs the kill medal or 2 kill medals for dealing most DMG and execute that way they can be split.
It's far easier than changing sorc3 -
The-Baconator✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Whenever I brought up Mage's Fury as an excellent execute, or that I personally thought and argued was better than Radiant Destruction, in the many many "nerf RD" threads, I was derided and accused of being a templar apologist.
In various sorcerer threads, I have always maintained that a sorcerer ought to have endless fury front barred in all content of the game because the skill was strong and versatile. Numerous PvE and PvP players disagreed.
Ever since ZoS made is so this skill was not reflectable, I have always felt it was hands down the most versatile and easiest to use execute. Hardly anyone took my opinion seriously, let alone agreed with me.
Fast forward to now when even PuGs know how not to die to Radiant Destruction and a dumb BG scoring system, people are all of a sudden appreciating what I have said for years even though nothing has changed about Mage's Fury.
Fury only recently became worth the bar slot. Back in IC\Orsinium\TG erra the skill was so bad that just about everyone I knew that soloed\small maned on a sorc dropped it for inner or other utility skills. From personal experience the damage was never the problem, the issue was I would burst someone to literally <10% hp only to watch the explosion occur 1-2 seconds later after the opponent had already healed\shielded or it wouldn't even go off it all. This is ofc why it's so good right now, it's essentially a fire and forget move that makes getting bursted to <20% hp insta death for those not permablocking. Personally even as a sorc I found the skill to be a bit much after trying it for the first time following a long hiatus (when the fix\buff occurred) but that's just me ofc.
Also as many have said, PLEASE just redo how the scoring system works in BGs. Sorc kill stealing in TDM is just one of the many examples of how battlegrounds medal\scoring system needs restructured.First PS4 NA Grand Overlord, Stormproof, and Flawless Conqueror.
Potato Lord of Atrocity1 -
Morvane✭✭✭✭
I don't know what would be best to change, but currently it over performs and has for a while to be honest. Maybe make it so ONLY if the sorc who cast it hits you below 20% it goes off, not a random hit from Joe the plumber who just sniped me from over half health and proc'd an execute..
You're not understanding my point, what makes it over powered is that I can be hit with a fury at say 60% health, LoS or run or whatever but if ANYONE hits me with something that drops me to 20% I'm insta dead, essientially meaning you can be executed from very high health and there is no counter.
This isn't a bias opinion, like I said I've mained a DW magsorc for a long time, and I recall even speaking to you about it on my other account 'Psychotic13' I've just switched back to my magblade and you realise how much free AP fury gives you.
Grown ups talking here kid
o rly? ive thought grown ups generate more clever idea than ive read hereEdited by Morvane on June 9, 2017 10:59PMDC Dunmer Sorcerer since 2014
@morvayn54, PC/EU0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Endless fury needs to be deleted or reworked its ridiculous, you Insta die if you hit 20% health and been hit with fury anytime in the previous few seconds.
I've mained a magsorc for aslong as I can remember aswell.
Fury was the worst execute in the game and because it's only good in battlegrounds in 1 gamemode it needs nerfing or deleted?
Forum logic.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...3 -
Benn G x✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »
Fury was the worst execute in the game and because it's only good in battlegrounds in 1 gamemode it needs nerfing or deleted?
Forum logic.
Fury is the worst execute in PvE, and the best execute in any PvP not just BGs. You obviously have a biased opinion so cba typing much in reply, waste of time
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thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »
This is me doing nearly everything wrong on my first outing.https://youtu.be/wtwSDDzKnHY
That was a pretty successful outing. Which was completely disheartening to me. Basically confirmed my worst nightmare. ProcBlade takes no skill what so ever. Just farm the gear, put it on, and let it kill for you. GGWP
Some thing's are better left unseen3 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The-Baconator wrote: »
Fury only recently became worth the bar slot. Back in IC\Orsinium\TG erra the skill was so bad that just about everyone I knew that soloed\small maned on a sorc dropped it for inner or other utility skills. From personal experience the damage was never the problem, the issue was I would burst someone to literally <10% hp only to watch the explosion occur 1-2 seconds later after the opponent had already healed\shielded or it wouldn't even go off it all. This is ofc why it's so good right now, it's essentially a fire and forget move that makes getting bursted to <20% hp insta death for those not permablocking. Personally even as a sorc I found the skill to be a bit much after trying it for the first time following a long hiatus (when the fix\buff occurred) but that's just me ofc.
Also as many have said, PLEASE just redo how the scoring system works in BGs. Sorc kill stealing in TDM is just one of the many examples of how battlegrounds medal\scoring system needs restructured.
December 2105, Endless Fury works just fine. No 1-2 second delays. Numerous killing blows achieved by the skill.
The only time this skill was questionable to use was way back in the early days of ESO when DK's could reflect it.
I think both RD and Impale have some animation before the first tick of damage, whereas the Endless Proc ticks immediately before your character starts the animation.
But yeah, as a lot of players were saying at the time, the issue with RD was the range.
RD also instant Zaps executable players (i.e within the death threshold) with no tell, no animation just death. People may have forgotten this since the nerf rage is now directed at Mage's Fury, but the insta-dying has long been a "feature" of Jesus Beam and Zos has never done anything to change it.2 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
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In would say to remove the 4 second timer on it.
If they remove the timer on curse aswell? :><Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
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I think Endless Fury became the top execute when they made the explosion fire the instant you hit the skill, before your character even goes through the animations. If someone is less than 20% health, there's zero delay in the execute proc once you active the skill. No other execute does that.
The funny thing is, most top Templar builds have dropped RD entirely in BGs. So, as predicted, the RD nerf was probably a bit too much.
If you properly animationcancel killers blade it hits instantly aswell.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
cazlonb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Dunno if this focus on Fury is really helping. Yea, it is an issue and so are procs. What I absolutely can not deal with on my MagTemp and MagDK is the mobility of Sorcs and StamNB though. You'd think that would be less of a problem in these cramped maps, but given the much more frantic nature than Cyrodiil it actually is 10x worse.
Just can't keep up with them whizzing around literally all the time.0 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »
This is me doing nearly everything wrong on my first outing.https://youtu.be/wtwSDDzKnHY
That was a pretty successful outing. Which was completely disheartening to me. Basically confirmed my worst nightmare. ProcBlade takes no skill what so ever. Just farm the gear, put it on, and let it kill for you. GGWP
That was painful to watch.
If you were trying to show how OP a proc stamblade is in this video you failed.
Stick to magicka. Watching this video made me cringe.6 -
Lieblingsjunge✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »Wrath. It steals all kills. A lot of players are learning that sorc is one of the best in BGs because of streak and wrath. Proc MBs are also top dogs, but can't steal kills.
I was desperately trying mTemp, the moment I went to mSorc I actually had fun
Magplar in BGs... :^ Unless it's for full potato healbot-scrub, you ain't getting far in there! In theory it should be "easy" to steal kills with Radiant but... nop. Sorc execute > Beam.
I went into BGs with my Sorc once. It's got BSW + Moondancer gear(Since i was too lazy to switch) -I just wanted to test the power of Mage's Wrath + RNG Implosion. Racking up kills by tagging everything with an execute... And as soon as I got close to combat.. Streak - Streak - LoS - Streak - Streak. Back to execute spam. :^
Feels great doesn't it. Mage's Wrath / Implosion needs a re-work. The strongest execute in the game + another RNg-based execute is silly.Ignorance is the greatest weapon of tyranny.
PC - EU.
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