THE PROCALYPSE

Joy_Division · June 2017

Probably should have just stuck to the issue of proc sets rather than bringing up sportsmanship or the general responsibilities players have to the PvP community.

The actual issue, proc sets, is something that we can quantify, measure, and gather empirical evidence to come to a conclusion that is grounded in objective reasoning.

The other stuff, no matter how strongly people may feel about it, it's still just an opinion based on subjective worldviews. Thus, it is bound to lead to arguments and unfortunately derail from an important topic.

***********************

As far as what I think should be done, well, I would advise ZoS to stop designing the overall game for 630 CP game-play and think it's perfectly fine to throw us in the sort of fast paced constant PvP combat with 0 CP.

Anyone who PvPs regularly and has a brain saw this coming the moment ZoS leaked they were leaning making Battelgrounds no CP. It doesn't take an Einstein to deduce that because the actual classes in this game have had a lot of their power and soul sucked out to feed the juggernaut that is the CP, coupled with the indiscriminate across the board nerf to sustain, throwing us in an environment where we are effectively neutered has compelled people who want to compete to search for compensatory power not tied to resources or CP: hello proc sets, hello resource poisons, hello oblivion damage.

What is sad is this game used to be so much fun with distinctive classes that had actual unique powers that made them genuinely interesting to play against each other. Then the developers somehow thought it would be a good idea to take away that distinctive power and compel us to require it in the form of generic flat boosts that is the champion system and gear sets that we farm.

I do think proc sets have a place, but they should complement our character's power rather than define it. But this raises a problem: stripped of CPs and hit with nerfs, there isn't much inherent power in our characters to begin with: so much of it is locked in the CP system and the gear we farm. Even if ZoS took the lazy route and just disabled all damage proc sets, while BGs would be less frustrating, I don't think it would necessarily be more interesting: my Blazing spear does not stun, my repentance does not restore stamina to my teammates, you can't CC break my Eclipse, Healing ritual is still a waste of space, my melee focus class no longer has a melee debuff, sun shield lol, etc. There is a certain temptation here: we turn to proc sets, BiS gear, oblivion damage because we have been hit with so many nerfs that it's overly frustrating trying to compete with our base classes (needless to say, some more than others).

Anrose · June 2017

Jules is right here. Proc sets and the proc set meta are going to end up forcing players out of PvP and send them to other games. The frustration that comes from the gameplay is starting to heavily outweigh the fun.

My suggestion: Disable sets that have a chance to proc damage from being able to activate on another player. This still leaves them viable for PvE while letting the PvP community get back to what we want to do... fighting players, not gear sets.

John_1999 · June 2017

give us back the previous patch, this was FUN.

Jules · June 2017

Anrose wrote: »

Jules is right here. Proc sets and the proc set meta are going to end up forcing players out of PvP and send them to other games. The frustration that comes from the gameplay is starting to heavily outweigh the fun.

My suggestion: Disable sets that have a chance to proc damage from being able to activate on another player. This still leaves them viable for PvE while letting the PvP community get back to what we want to do... fighting players, not gear sets.

This is a really drastic change but honestly in an ideal game I'm for it. Gear sets should be able to give us spell/weapon damage, the potential for damage but not do actual damage. It's just too easy. This would hurt most probably for valkyn users who depend on that dmg for burst, but eventually people would adjust. Chances are this won't happen though, so looking for other avenues to nerf them is probably more realistic.

Prospero_ESO · June 2017

Jules wrote: »

It is unfair to ask PVPers to choose between being sportsmanlike and being competitive.

If that´s the values you stand for in life.... You are not better than anyone else using this kind of cancer, coming to the forums complaining about that and on the same time using the same stupid *** with the lame excuse of "competitiveness" makes me puke. I you don´t like something don´t do it, then you can complain otherwise sorry i can´t take you serious.

Lexxypwns · June 2017

I've spoken my piece about proc sets over performing in no CP. however, anyone in this thread suggesting that it's bad sportsmanship to wear them is honestly a scrub.

Nobody has to fit some imagined moral code, there are rules in place and one of those rules is that it's ok to use proc sets, or whatever over performing sets fit the meta.

WhiteMage · June 2017

I love that brutal honesty form of trolling. That's the way I would do it.

I feel like having a conversation with him would be interesting.

Kilandros · June 2017

Tried a double proc StamDK build for a couple of matches yesterday and while I agree it's an effective build, it isn't fun to play at all. Went back to the StamDK zero proc build I theorycrafted for BGs and it's more fun and way more rewarding to play. I get just as many kills with it (unless I'm solo queued going up against 2 stacked premades RIP but it's not like proc sets are gonna save me there).

Honestly proc sets just lower the floor skill level for players considerably. It makes killing baddies more mindless but isn't gonna save you if you're just outmatched.

rimmidimdim · June 2017

What is a proc set? Is troll king a proc set? Is seventh legion a proc set? Is sergeants mail a proc set? Is ravager? Is pirate skeleton? Is armor of truth? Werewolf hide? The new defiler and knight Slayer? A weapon enchant is a proc right? So does that make torugs pact a proc set?

Before everyone nerfs the whole world like what happened last time proc sets took the crit Nerf, stupid as hell, fixed nothing and made alot of sets that were fun useless, please be way more specific on what sets. I don't want all of nirn nerfed to being naked.

Cheers.

Sypher · June 2017

Malic wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Malic wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

It's pretty clear procs are overperforming in BG's.
Viper is on nearly every stam build in under a week with 0 skillful counterplay available.

Before we jump into it, I'll beat you to whatever you're about to say - yes, I am running two proc sets on my stamblade right now.
Yes I am doing this on stream.

"Why, you hypocrite?"

Why? Because this is best in slot for stamblade bar none. Because to remain competitive, you wear competitive gear. You want to say it's unoriginal or cheesy or whatever else, I agree. It is. I hate when it happens to me, and I hate doing it to other people. It makes for lame, senseless pvp. But if people are going to burst me with proc sets, have free damage and incredible sustain, I will be at a distinct disadvantage to not do the same. If I choose to take the hundings high road, I will take longer to kill people and waste more resources. And because of this, I will have an overall lower chance of success. So it's not that I like it, it's not that I support it. It's just that procs are undeniably effective. As a player who wants to compete, I cannot be expected to knowingly put myself at a disadvantage just because of some intangible video game morality. The set is in the game so it's fair to use. The question of why, whether it should be, and how to deal with it is another story entirely.

This is the dilemma in everyone's mind. To win with procs or remain honorable and lose.
Why am I as a player having to choose between being sportsmanlike and being competitive? Why are these two methods mutually exclusive?

How many years has this community been forced to self regulate?
Instead of relying on ZOS to fix broken, imbalanced mechanics and sets, we've become so accustomed to holding ourselves back from things that are "meta" or "cheese" - LIKE proc sets, LIKE heavy armor, LIKE whatever class is best at the time. The problem with a community self regulating is that only half the community is willing to do this. And as time goes on, more people get frustrated - more people jump to the dark side. Eventually, the entire experience is completely diluted and theorycrafting anything outside this meta is worthless. Build homogenization. Boring PVP with lack of counterplay.

We should not have to self regulate this time.
It's time we look to ZOS to fix what is clearly broken and overperforming instead of trying to force ourselves away from sets that are imbalanced, and yet somehow optimal.

This proc meta is only in its baby stages and viper is already on nearly every death recap of every person I talk to.
It's time ZOS gets in front of this impending meta and fix it before it breaks the integrity of BGs, and ruins their promising growth.

Point blank, it is far too easy to stack damage through proc sets. When you have proc sets, you have enough damage that it doesn't matter what your max stats are. Stats can be crap like my stam nb's (below) and you can still dish out top damage. What's worse, is that it deeply affects sustain as well. Because you don't have to actively choose sets that give you sustain, just change some enchants or mundus around and you are fully optimal. Proc sets open you up to much easier sustain in addition to the easier damage. IE: Why spend 6k stam to do 2-3 different skills when I can use half the stam to do the same damage with just one skill? Proc sets are essentially FREE DAMAGE and thus FREE SUSTAIN. It requires 0 effort, it requires 0 skill, it requires 0 conscious decisions to be made other than to simply equip it. Like playing on autopilot, if you will.

Selene's on my stam nb is hitting for an average of 5-7k and I have 27k max stam and 2300-2500 weapon damage. That is broken. That should never hit that hard with those stats, but it does. Because people are forced into medium and light with new sustain changes, they can barely even mitigate the damage and certainly can't have adequate counterplay to it. They have barely any resistance as it is with sharpened + the major fracture of surprise attack, not to mention the multitude of damage modifiers NB has.

But this isn't about NB. It's about the sets. Because they work too well on DK, Templar, Sorc, and Warden as well. They are just particularly lethal on NB's because the class is designed for damage.

The point of the matter is: procs are ruining any semblance of balance in BGs. Procs are ruining our chance at counterplay. Procs are ruining our fun with theorycrafting because they are so far superior that it is pointless to try to out-optimize them. And it will only get worse the further into this we get. Right now the information of what is best in slot is trickling down to others, people are telling their friends, people are seeing it on their death recaps over and over and considering to themselves if they'd like to equip the same to find some relief from pain of dealing with it.

This procalypse needs to end before this patch goes to open access for the rest of PC and console on June 6th.
This flaw has the potential to ruin the PVP BG experience for thousands of people intent on giving this game another try. As a community we need to demand change, we need to demand ZOS regulate things such as this that are grossly overperforming. It doesn't matter how we go about minimizing their effectiveness, we need to try something.

My suggestion is to add a mechanic to battle spirit that reduces the effectiveness of procs (in BG's, and perhaps in Cyro as well). This way, any PVE builds using proc sets are not made ineffective, and we can find a resolution to this that makes everyone happy. Not sure what the best way to go about nerfing them would be, some suggest that making only one proc set effective at a time is a good place to start. But I highly doubt a change like this would stop anything, seeing as everyone would just run viper. Perhaps putting all proc sets on 1 singular global cooldown, doing an overall % reduction of proc damage, or proc chance, or literally any other method of reducing their effectiveness I am down for.

I am more than willing to hear other people's ideas in terms of bringing these in line with other sets. I'm sure plenty of you have more creative ideas than I ever could. I look forward to discussing this with others and hopefully convincing ZOS devs @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler that these sets need some attention.

I hope that as a community, we can put aside preference for sake of balance, and foster challenging and purposeful PVP going forward.

Thanks for reading and have a great day.

Love,
Jules

PS: A great clip to prove this imbalance.
https://clips.twitch.tv/BravePlayfulMangetoutHeyGuys

dont you love the hypocrites who preempt you with an acknowledgement of their hypocrisy then attempt to shame you for calling them on it with some meme "I know what youre going to say so ya dont say it"

Then they give you some B.S. narrative on how it should be nerfed, but of course they are using it for the "good of the game".

These are exactly the people who have negatively impacted PVP, but do make sure you head on over to the channel and subscribe !

Please.

I never once said I'm using proc sets for the good of the game. So idk what you read, but clearly wasn't my post. I said I'm using proc sets because they're effective. They're BIS. The rest of what you wrote just sounds like salt, childish attacks and mocking rather than constructive conversation. So congratulations, you've effectively 100% missed the point. Always gotta be atleast one I guess.

Oh I read your post, It was a remarkable piece of art.

1. You proclaimed that proc sets are a problem, but you use two of them on your current toon.
2. You proclaimed that you knew people would be calling you a hypocrite.
3. You got your stream plug in, what was it 2-3 times?
4. You preemptively mitigated any criticism ANYONE could have by quickly acknowledging your hypocrisy with the notion that its BIS.
5. You produce a narrative about how proc sets are ruining BG's, yet you wear them yourself, so you are ruining BG's. (I know you probably werent anticipating an extrapolation of logic on the ESO forums).
6. You then proclaim that for the good of the community you'd like to put aside the preference for what was it "the sake of balance and fostering of purposeful PVP"
7. You ended with another plug.

Tell me in your self absorbed self grandeur do you have a gag reflex from having your head so far up your own ass?

EDIT: I forgot 8. you attempt to isolate me as some one off view "there is always one" Well hate to break it to you but anyone with a shred of objectivity who read your post, after they cleaned up the urine from pissing themselves laughing could see clearly the exhibition of vanity you displayed.

So congratulations, you are a self absorbed hypocrite.

Oh FFS .. get real dude.

1. It doesn't matter if someone uses something powerful in game. They can still have the opinion that it needs adjustment. Intentionally gimping yourself is your choice, no one else.
2. Yes, because that's how damn *** people can be. Instead of focusing on the topic of "PROC SETS" they will try to deter the topic to focus on the "cancerous players who use them" like Jules? Look here, you're doing exactly that. You haven't shared a single thing regarding proc sets.
3. LOL. I just went through some of your posts and holy *** do you not like streamers/content creators.
4. Refer to step 2. Also why are we ****ing making number lists.
5. OH MY GOD. How dense are you. Holy ****. Something in game is over preforming. Hmmm, let's blame the people that use it instead of getting the devs to address it.

Idiot.

Keep_Door · June 2017

TL;DR ... if you cant beat them join them

olsborg · June 2017

GC0 wrote: »

ZOS, remove procs.

/signed

RinaldoGandolphi · June 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

I've spoken my piece about proc sets over performing in no CP. however, anyone in this thread suggesting that it's bad sportsmanship to wear them is honestly a scrub.

Nobody has to fit some imagined moral code, there are rules in place and one of those rules is that it's ok to use proc sets, or whatever over performing sets fit the meta.

One could also say that anyone suggesting someone is a scrub simply because they think wearing proc sets is bad sportsmanship is equally a scrub. See? That works both ways.

Your opinion on proc sets doesn't mean anything more then anyone else's opinion on them. I choose not to use them because it's my personal preference. However you don't see me trying to force my preference on others, and you most certainly don't see me calling people scrubs for choosing to use or not use them. You also don't see me calling someone a scrub because of their opinion on sportsmanship.

Regardless if you agree with the sportsmanship thing or not it IS a valid opinion, nothing you say is going to change that fact. You don't have to agree with it, as it's your right and preference to disagree.

There is no imagined moral code. Sportsmanship and imagined moral code have nothing to do with each other.

Sportsmanship- conduct (such as fairness, respect for one's opponent, and graciousness in winning or losing) becoming to one participating in a sport.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sportsmanship

Sportsmanship is merely the act of being a class individual, being gracious in defeat, being humble in victory, and being helpful. It has nothing to do with some moral code your trying to reference.

if your trying to justify something, why? I don't think the majority of folks here care or will judge either way if you choose to use or not use them. So why try to bring up morals and ethics that have nothing to do with sportsmanship?

If you don't have an issue with proc sets, fine I won't judge you, doubt anyone else will either. Just don't try and muddy the topic or belittle others opinions.

Empathy is a real thing I see both sides and I empathize with both sides. There is no one single truth sadly, and things are not always black and white.

Be kind to one other that's the most important thing

Nafirian · June 2017

This is some good salt.

Rohamad_Ali · June 2017

This thread got weird fast .

Anti_Virus · June 2017

I understand your frustration with proc sets I hate them too but I also use them, please don't nerf them not yet anyways I play stam dk and I need them to deal damage.

Since Zos is set on only giving us two stam Dots I need that burst to kill people Have you ever tried stam dk with just two dots and spamming Heroic slash or Dizzying swing? Good luck killing anyone they will shield/Cloak/purge your dots and dodge your attacks.

I tried my best to avoid wearing them but not that these changes are going to go live on june 6th I've been wearing them in preparation for the new meta it sucks but it must be done.

I used to wear 5 hundings 3 ashen grip 3 agility with all WD enchants and WD glyph in 7 medium and get 4K WD. But I wouldn't kill anybody my dots wouldn't do anything and my burst was easily dodged( Dizzying swing, or Heroic slash which did not do anything substantial) so now if up to this it's the only thing that works for me atm.

Killset · June 2017

Proc sets do not bother me a bit anymore.

[Deleted User] · June 2017

Hello everyone,

As you may have noticed we've removed some posts for some heated back and forth. The content removed seemed to place taunt status effect and had a 100% flame proc per post, bad jokes aside, keep in mind that flame is against the Forum Rules. For further posts please be sure to stay civil with one another and constructive towards the topic.

Thank you for understanding.

Ishammael · June 2017

I like @Force-Siphon 's suggestion of only crafted gear in PvP. That would be more interesting. It would also help demonstrate which and how classes are overperforming.

Also, @WhiteMage did a bunch of calculations in order to quantify the weapon dmg equivalence of viper. His results, which aren't exactly apples to apples but very close, show viper to be worth at a minimum 3x the hundings rage 5pc.

Regardless, the "proc set" issue is limited specific sets: viper, veli, Selene, widow, red mountain, tremor, and in some cases valkyn and troll king. I haven't seen much of knight Slayer yet. ZOS should make a balance pass on these, reducing their tooltips by appropriate amounts.... Probably 50% in most cases.

Bgs definitely are not fun in their current state.

LeifErickson · June 2017

Please don't nerf proc sets! I don't know how I am going to be able to get any kills if they nerf them again! When I went soloing with my friends and used widowmaker and throw dagger with poisons, I would get so many kills. Then they had to nerf that and make proc sets not crit anymore. I think after that I went a whole week without getting a kill solo with my friends. I moved to pve and went in lowbie zones so I could kill things in one hit but then they nerfed that too! After taking a long break from the game, I came back in hopes that everyone would be in medium and I would be able to proc them again and you are trying to take that away from me. So for that I got my whole guild to report you so enjoy ban.

Uncle_Sweetshare · June 2017

Ishammael wrote: »

Bgs definitely are not fun in their current state.

I don't think they will ever be. ZOS is far too incompetent, and despite the dozens of other MMOs with fully functioning arena-style Battlegrounds they could have copy and pasted systems from, they managed to include none of expected features of a typical Battlegrounds style game mode, while still refusing to balance PvE and PvP separately. It's a joke.

Waffennacht · June 2017

LeifErickson wrote: »

Please don't nerf proc sets! I don't know how I am going to be able to get any kills if they nerf them again! When I went soloing with my friends and used widowmaker and throw dagger with poisons, I would get so many kills. Then they had to nerf that and make proc sets not crit anymore. I think after that I went a whole week without getting a kill solo with my friends. I moved to pve and went in lowbie zones so I could kill things in one hit but then they nerfed that too! After taking a long break from the game, I came back in hopes that everyone would be in medium and I would be able to proc them again and you are trying to take that away from me. So for that I got my whole guild to report you so enjoy ban.

By that much
I usually fall for troll posts

Surprised I didn't fall for this one

Czirne · June 2017

Every death recap in bg be like:

alephthiago · June 2017

What a woman *-*
But yes, i have made 2-3 threads about this and people went about to say they were pros already, that i needed to get good, that they dont have sustain because of the proc sets etc etc....
You dont really need sustain when you melt people quick enough, can line of sight for resources and dont actually need to use too many skills to cause damage.

Czirne · June 2017

I've been running Bone pirate with Spriggans, but thanks to this post I'm sold. Anyone PC-EU up for farming viper?

Waffennacht · June 2017

Czirne wrote: »

Every death recap in bg be like:

.... How the...? How did they proc tremorscale?

That charge taunt set?

WhiteMage · June 2017

Maybe that one set that makes a charge attack into a taunt? Tormentor or something? It's a set from Banished Cells.

Darnathian · June 2017

Jules wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I went an entire year without using a proc set . I got so use to dying in 20 seconds I just started running PVE abilities in PVP . I slotted baleful mist , shadow barrier , malefic reef and every other goofy ability you can imagine at the end of the year . Someone even told me @jules told me to go back to PVE in one of here streams . It was the most painful year ever . Humiliation was my middle name .

So finally I listened to another friend and just ran everything . Now when my suits kill a whole raid I am praised by my team . It's not the way I like to win , it's the way I have to win . Honor or not , I might as well not waste a faction spot being honorable .

So you know, the player in question sends nasty whispers and says nasty things about you even when you kill her.

It's not like you're talking about someone respected.

Omg please forgive me I just want you to like and respect me. PLEASE.

No. You just want to flirt and take advantage of lonely dudes and take their money. You are just promoting your stream here. Your not fooling anyone. You and Kodi use the most broken crap in this game. lol

Rohamad_Ali · June 2017

Czirne wrote: »

Every death recap in bg be like:

Are you running under 20k health ?

Malic · June 2017

alephthiago wrote: »

What a woman *-*
But yes, i have made 2-3 threads about this and people went about to say they were pros already, that i needed to get good, that they dont have sustain because of the proc sets etc etc....
You dont really need sustain when you melt people quick enough, can line of sight for resources and dont actually need to use too many skills to cause damage.

You've illuminated the problem brilliantly and you probably dont even know you did. So you are correct, you dont need sustain when you can melt people quick enough. What you didnt mention or account for was, why is the person melting?

So you are running around with 4K weap damage, got your proc sets and you melt? Yep sound about right. You could, I dont know, build your toon accordingly so you DONT MELT. Of course this abstract thinking rarely comes into the equation anymore. NERF IT is the first line of attack, the band wagon starts, ZOS does it and the same people then *** about the nerf.

If your melting to much in PVP you need to tank up. I have a magi nb bomber I play from time to time. LA, glass cannon, I die, I bomb, I die. People die much less now then they used to. You cant melt someone who is correctly built to counter your build. A lot of you appear to want to have your cake and eat it too.

Well thats what your op hypocrite is doing, shes running multiple proc sets and doing just fine. Thats how you get kills in PVP in ESO and has been for a while, you burst. SO you build to counter to the burst, otherwise you die. What MMO PVP is there that this isnt the case?

Its not a l2p issue, it never has been. Its been a player/lazy issue. If you are unwilling to change your build, unwilling to accept death because of it youre lazy. Coming here and whining to ZOS NERF THIS is an indication of how lazy you are. At least the OP is driving traffic to her stream, whats your excuse?

Sypher wrote: »

Malic wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Malic wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

It's pretty clear procs are overperforming in BG's.
Viper is on nearly every stam build in under a week with 0 skillful counterplay available.

Before we jump into it, I'll beat you to whatever you're about to say - yes, I am running two proc sets on my stamblade right now.
Yes I am doing this on stream.

"Why, you hypocrite?"

Why? Because this is best in slot for stamblade bar none. Because to remain competitive, you wear competitive gear. You want to say it's unoriginal or cheesy or whatever else, I agree. It is. I hate when it happens to me, and I hate doing it to other people. It makes for lame, senseless pvp. But if people are going to burst me with proc sets, have free damage and incredible sustain, I will be at a distinct disadvantage to not do the same. If I choose to take the hundings high road, I will take longer to kill people and waste more resources. And because of this, I will have an overall lower chance of success. So it's not that I like it, it's not that I support it. It's just that procs are undeniably effective. As a player who wants to compete, I cannot be expected to knowingly put myself at a disadvantage just because of some intangible video game morality. The set is in the game so it's fair to use. The question of why, whether it should be, and how to deal with it is another story entirely.

This is the dilemma in everyone's mind. To win with procs or remain honorable and lose.
Why am I as a player having to choose between being sportsmanlike and being competitive? Why are these two methods mutually exclusive?

How many years has this community been forced to self regulate?
Instead of relying on ZOS to fix broken, imbalanced mechanics and sets, we've become so accustomed to holding ourselves back from things that are "meta" or "cheese" - LIKE proc sets, LIKE heavy armor, LIKE whatever class is best at the time. The problem with a community self regulating is that only half the community is willing to do this. And as time goes on, more people get frustrated - more people jump to the dark side. Eventually, the entire experience is completely diluted and theorycrafting anything outside this meta is worthless. Build homogenization. Boring PVP with lack of counterplay.

We should not have to self regulate this time.
It's time we look to ZOS to fix what is clearly broken and overperforming instead of trying to force ourselves away from sets that are imbalanced, and yet somehow optimal.

This proc meta is only in its baby stages and viper is already on nearly every death recap of every person I talk to.
It's time ZOS gets in front of this impending meta and fix it before it breaks the integrity of BGs, and ruins their promising growth.

Point blank, it is far too easy to stack damage through proc sets. When you have proc sets, you have enough damage that it doesn't matter what your max stats are. Stats can be crap like my stam nb's (below) and you can still dish out top damage. What's worse, is that it deeply affects sustain as well. Because you don't have to actively choose sets that give you sustain, just change some enchants or mundus around and you are fully optimal. Proc sets open you up to much easier sustain in addition to the easier damage. IE: Why spend 6k stam to do 2-3 different skills when I can use half the stam to do the same damage with just one skill? Proc sets are essentially FREE DAMAGE and thus FREE SUSTAIN. It requires 0 effort, it requires 0 skill, it requires 0 conscious decisions to be made other than to simply equip it. Like playing on autopilot, if you will.

Selene's on my stam nb is hitting for an average of 5-7k and I have 27k max stam and 2300-2500 weapon damage. That is broken. That should never hit that hard with those stats, but it does. Because people are forced into medium and light with new sustain changes, they can barely even mitigate the damage and certainly can't have adequate counterplay to it. They have barely any resistance as it is with sharpened + the major fracture of surprise attack, not to mention the multitude of damage modifiers NB has.

But this isn't about NB. It's about the sets. Because they work too well on DK, Templar, Sorc, and Warden as well. They are just particularly lethal on NB's because the class is designed for damage.

The point of the matter is: procs are ruining any semblance of balance in BGs. Procs are ruining our chance at counterplay. Procs are ruining our fun with theorycrafting because they are so far superior that it is pointless to try to out-optimize them. And it will only get worse the further into this we get. Right now the information of what is best in slot is trickling down to others, people are telling their friends, people are seeing it on their death recaps over and over and considering to themselves if they'd like to equip the same to find some relief from pain of dealing with it.

This procalypse needs to end before this patch goes to open access for the rest of PC and console on June 6th.
This flaw has the potential to ruin the PVP BG experience for thousands of people intent on giving this game another try. As a community we need to demand change, we need to demand ZOS regulate things such as this that are grossly overperforming. It doesn't matter how we go about minimizing their effectiveness, we need to try something.

My suggestion is to add a mechanic to battle spirit that reduces the effectiveness of procs (in BG's, and perhaps in Cyro as well). This way, any PVE builds using proc sets are not made ineffective, and we can find a resolution to this that makes everyone happy. Not sure what the best way to go about nerfing them would be, some suggest that making only one proc set effective at a time is a good place to start. But I highly doubt a change like this would stop anything, seeing as everyone would just run viper. Perhaps putting all proc sets on 1 singular global cooldown, doing an overall % reduction of proc damage, or proc chance, or literally any other method of reducing their effectiveness I am down for.

I am more than willing to hear other people's ideas in terms of bringing these in line with other sets. I'm sure plenty of you have more creative ideas than I ever could. I look forward to discussing this with others and hopefully convincing ZOS devs @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler that these sets need some attention.

I hope that as a community, we can put aside preference for sake of balance, and foster challenging and purposeful PVP going forward.

Thanks for reading and have a great day.

Love,
Jules

PS: A great clip to prove this imbalance.
https://clips.twitch.tv/BravePlayfulMangetoutHeyGuys

dont you love the hypocrites who preempt you with an acknowledgement of their hypocrisy then attempt to shame you for calling them on it with some meme "I know what youre going to say so ya dont say it"

Then they give you some B.S. narrative on how it should be nerfed, but of course they are using it for the "good of the game".

These are exactly the people who have negatively impacted PVP, but do make sure you head on over to the channel and subscribe !

Please.

I never once said I'm using proc sets for the good of the game. So idk what you read, but clearly wasn't my post. I said I'm using proc sets because they're effective. They're BIS. The rest of what you wrote just sounds like salt, childish attacks and mocking rather than constructive conversation. So congratulations, you've effectively 100% missed the point. Always gotta be atleast one I guess.

Oh I read your post, It was a remarkable piece of art.

1. You proclaimed that proc sets are a problem, but you use two of them on your current toon.
2. You proclaimed that you knew people would be calling you a hypocrite.
3. You got your stream plug in, what was it 2-3 times?
4. You preemptively mitigated any criticism ANYONE could have by quickly acknowledging your hypocrisy with the notion that its BIS.
5. You produce a narrative about how proc sets are ruining BG's, yet you wear them yourself, so you are ruining BG's. (I know you probably werent anticipating an extrapolation of logic on the ESO forums).
6. You then proclaim that for the good of the community you'd like to put aside the preference for what was it "the sake of balance and fostering of purposeful PVP"
7. You ended with another plug.

Tell me in your self absorbed self grandeur do you have a gag reflex from having your head so far up your own ass?

EDIT: I forgot 8. you attempt to isolate me as some one off view "there is always one" Well hate to break it to you but anyone with a shred of objectivity who read your post, after they cleaned up the urine from pissing themselves laughing could see clearly the exhibition of vanity you displayed.

So congratulations, you are a self absorbed hypocrite.

Oh FFS .. get real dude.

1. It doesn't matter if someone uses something powerful in game. They can still have the opinion that it needs adjustment. Intentionally gimping yourself is your choice, no one else.
2. Yes, because that's how damn *** people can be. Instead of focusing on the topic of "PROC SETS" they will try to deter the topic to focus on the "cancerous players who use them" like Jules? Look here, you're doing exactly that. You haven't shared a single thing regarding proc sets.
3. LOL. I just went through some of your posts and holy *** do you not like streamers/content creators.
4. Refer to step 2. Also why are we ****ing making number lists.
5. OH MY GOD. How dense are you. Holy ****. Something in game is over preforming. Hmmm, let's blame the people that use it instead of getting the devs to address it.

Idiot.

So you went though the posts of someone you believe to be an idiot? That would make you a bigger idiot but we dont need to expand on that I suspect you know you are.

EDIT: Okay, we'll be real. LOL.